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View Full Version : How Is Nassau more important than Sydney??



Jayden26
10-18-2013, 11:45 AM
Read that question again and understand how hypocritical some members on here truly are. People say that AC only goes to locations that have had an affect on world history, but tell me how is Nassau a tiny ramshackle outpost more important as a historical location than Sydney??
Makes zero sense.

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 11:48 AM
Nassau is where most of the pirates (and the most famous ones as well) of the Caribbean have resided during the Golden Age of Piracy, and where they tried to create their democratic state of sorts. In fact, it wasn't originally supposed to be in AC4 during the early concept stages but they included it in there precisely because of that fact.

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 11:52 AM
Nassau is where most of the pirates (and the most famous ones as well) of the Caribbean have resided during the Golden Age of Piracy, and where they tried to create their democratic state of sorts. In fact, it wasn't originally supposed to be in AC4 during the early concept stages but they included it in there precisely because of that fact.

Hardly an affect on world history, not to mention 99% of fans of AC wouldn't have even heard of Nassau before the settings release.

adventurewomen
10-18-2013, 11:53 AM
Sydney, Australia? Now that wouldn't fit into the current Kenway Saga.

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 11:58 AM
Sydney, Australia? Now that wouldn't fit into the current Kenway Saga.

I wouldn't want it to, the whole Kenway saga is a joke. If AC only goes to world changing historical locations then why go to the Caribbean??

silvermercy
10-18-2013, 11:58 AM
Sydney, Australia? Now that wouldn't fit into the current Kenway Saga.
LOL Exactly!!

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 11:59 AM
Hardly an affect on world history, not to mention 99% of fans of AC wouldn't have even heard of Nassau before the settings release.

Do you have the problem with AC4's general setting/time period, or with Nassau in general? Because your argument can be applied to a bunch of cities in AC: Monterrigioni, Damascus, Forli, for example.

A city or a settlement may not affect something in and on its own, but, rarely something does, it's the whole conglomeration of events and places that affects world history. ... Hence why it's WORLD history.

Mr_Shade
10-18-2013, 12:01 PM
indeed.

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:03 PM
Do you have the problem with AC4's general setting/time period, or with Nassau in general? .

Both, mostly because people keep telling me an Australian setting wouldn't work when they are setting an AC in a setting which little to no affect on world history and which cities (if you could call them that) are being trumped as more important than the great eastern cities of OZ.

pirate1802
10-18-2013, 12:03 PM
lol wtf am I reading?


Anyhow, as others have said, Nassau was where the first attempt at democracy was made in modern times. And it was pretty much the home of the pirates of the caribbean.


I wouldn't want it to, the whole Kenway saga is a joke. If AC only goes to world changing historical locations then why go to the Caribbean??

You only find it a joke because it isn't set in Australia. Fact.

adventurewomen
10-18-2013, 12:05 PM
i wouldn't want it to, the whole kenway saga is a joke. If ac only goes to world changing historical locations then why go to the caribbean??
I disagree! The Kenway's are the best characters to happen to AC series!

The Caribbean was at the time a pivotal point in the 18th Century the Golden Age of Piracy, now that's interesting!

I'm American so forgive me when I say this but I was never taught about the history of Australia in History Class.


lol exactly!!
I'm glad you agree! Sydney how random, LMAO!! The location is off especially for the current time scale in the 18th Century!

Why would Edward be in Australia. LOL

Mr_Shade
10-18-2013, 12:07 PM
Both, mostly because people keep telling me an Australian setting wouldn't work when they are setting an AC in a setting which little to no affect on world history and which cities (if you could call them that) are being trumped as more important than the great eastern cities of OZ.
Many people would like the AC games set in their country, however it does not always work that way..

I'm glad to see you campaign for your country though :)


The team have a set plan, but who's to say in the future they may not visit - if it fits the story, who knows - and dont forget - time is fluid.. ;)

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:08 PM
lol wtf am I reading?


Anyhow, as others have said, Nassau was where the first attempt at democracy was made in modern times. And it was pretty much the home of the pirates of the caribbean.



You only find it a joke because it isn't set in Australia. Fact.

So honestly tell me you believe that the Caribbean had a bigger affect on world history than Australia? And you believe that Nassau (a tiny village) is more important than Sydney??
Also FYI democracy was around LONG before this pirate era.

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:09 PM
I'm American so forgive me when I say this but I was never taught about the history of Australia in History Class!

No of course you weren't.

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:11 PM
Many people would like the AC games set in their country, however it does not always work that way..

I'm glad to see you campaign for your country though :)


The team have a set plan, but who's to say in the future they may not visit - if it fits the story, who knows - and dont forget - time is fluid.. ;)


I'm not campaigning for an AC to be set in Australia because I know full well it will never happen, we never get any games set here it is always Britain, America, or Asia.

Mr_Shade
10-18-2013, 12:12 PM
So honestly tell me you believe that the Caribbean had a bigger affect on world history than Australia? And you believe that Nassau (a tiny village) is more important than Sydney??
Also FYI democracy was around LONG before this pirate era.

At the time period we are in - yes..


The trading routes and events etc - changed the face of the world..


Lets not start a 'my country is better than yours' - since that will only end with the thread being locked - keep it civil and understand the setting [as in time period and protaginist'] and see if that would fit..


Would a Pirate Assassin who lives in the 1700's , really be in Oz? or the Caribbean...?

That's the context of this game.. so please don't forget it.



I'm not campaigning for an AC to be set in Australia because I know full well it will never happen, we never get any games set here it is always Britain, America, or Asia.

IF you wish to promote Australia for future titles - there is a dedicated thread, so please use that.. If as you say you are not, I think the thread is a little confused?


In the 1700's the area we are based in, is the right place to be? - Pirates, 1700's and the Caribbean go together well?

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 12:13 PM
Both, mostly because people keep telling me an Australian setting wouldn't work when they are setting an AC in a setting which little to no affect on world history and which cities (if you could call them that) are being trumped as more important than the great eastern cities of OZ.

I'm not the one to challenge as of why an Australian setting is or isn't good for an AC game, however, regarding the importance of Golden Age of Piracy and it's affect on the world history...

For starters, from a paper by Mark Shirk:

In the late 17th and early 18th centuries, colonies were still ruled in a manner similar to that of a century before. States attempted to control the seas and colonies were
international holdings of the crown. The international/domestic border was set so that
anything outside of Europe was considered ‘beyond the line’. However the rise of
mercantilist trade created a fissure between it and contemporary practices of colonial
rule. While trade could happen with this conception of the international/domestic border,
it was not being properly protected and was thus vulnerable. Pirates had found a way to
exploit this fissure, effectively ‘shattering’ the practice of colonial rule, by attacking
shipping, challenging state authority and threatening to blow up the entire colonial
economic system. It should be reiterated, however, that many pirates were merely doing
the same thing that they had been doing for decades; it was the context that changed.
In a world where economics and the state were so intertwined, this fissure had to
be closed. In order for this to happen and for pirates to be ‘extirpated out of this world’,
Being made ‘domestic’ does not mean being ‘equal’ or ‘similar’, it only meant that they were now
officially a part of the responsibilities of the state.
the state had to conceive of their colonies in a new way. They did this by moving ‘the
line’ so that the colonies were now included as part of the ‘domestic’. Colonial states
developed new practices to solve a concrete problem by taking control of colonial policy
and coordinating between colonies and even with rivals. England expanded the area
where its judicial system had authority. States began to run propaganda campaigns
against pirates in the colonies. These moves not only were integral in the fight against
piracy, they also stand as evidence that Atlantic colonies had become part of the domestic
sphere. Attempts to include the sea were dropped even as states began to exert greater
control vis a vis non-state actors over the Atlantic Ocean. The international/domestic
boundary had been moved. There was still a line as the distinction between
‘international’ and ‘domestic’ did not disappear, but a phrase like, ‘no peace beyond the
line’ became nonsensical in this new configuration. The golden age of piracy acted as a
site whereby states renegotiated and redrew the boundaries of sovereign authority,
developing new practices and new conceptions of the international and the domestic
because the old conceptions were vital to the rise of piracy’s golden age in the first place.
The state had faced a crisis brought on by a major episode of transnational violence and
survived by coming up with creative solutions to a real world problem.

Not to mention a direct affect on Spanish economy that led to a decline of the Spanish rule of the seas and colonies (Golden Age of Piracy starts in 1600s, AC4 covers only the end of it), and you can't say that it's not world-affecting since Spain was one of the biggest Empires at the time.

pirate1802
10-18-2013, 12:16 PM
So honestly tell me you believe that the Caribbean had a bigger affect on world history than Australia? And you believe that Nassau (a tiny village) is more important than Sydney??


If it was up to me I'd say **** both of these place and make a game on India and France as they are more important than Nassau and Sydney, but hey its their game, they have 100% right to take their game anywhere they like and owe no explanation to anyone. But now knowing the history of pirates and Nassau (which you don't often get in popular culture) I can say yes to your question. lol, if we ever were judging the importance of a place by its population you'd never ever see an AC game apart from ones set in China and India.


Also FYI democracy was around LONG before this pirate era.

Guess you missed the part "modern".

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:16 PM
At the time period we are in - yes..


The trading routes and events etc - changed the face of the world..


Lets not start a 'my country is better than yours' - since that will only end with the thread being locked - keep it civil and understand the setting [as in time period and protaginist'] and see if that would fit..


Would a Pirate Assassin who lives in the 1700's , really be in Oz? or the Caribbean...?

That's the context of this game.. so please don't forget it.




IF you wish to promote Australia for future titles - there is a dedicated thread, so please use that.. If as you say you are not, I think the thread is a little confused?


In the 1700's the area we are based in, is the right place to be? - Pirates, 1700's and the Caribbean go together well?


So you believe the ramshackle village of Nassau had a bigger affect on world history than a city like say Sydney or Melbourne??
Also who ever said anything about a pirate assassin being in OZ ??

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:20 PM
I'm not the one to challenge as of why an Australian setting is or isn't good for an AC game, however, regarding the importance of Golden Age of Piracy and it's affect on the world history...

For starters, from a paper by Mark Shirk:


Not to mention a direct affect on Spanish economy that led to a decline of the Spanish rule of the seas and colonies (Golden Age of Piracy starts in 1600s, AC4 covers only the end of it), and you can't say that it's not world-affecting since Spain was one of the biggest Empires at the time.

Your argument makes no sense, give me one reason as to why Nassau had a major affect on world history??

Mr_Shade
10-18-2013, 12:21 PM
So you believe the ramshackle village of Nassau had a bigger affect on world history than a city like say Sydney or Melbourne??
Also who ever said anything about a pirate assassin being in OZ ??

Well the game with Nassau is about Pirates - Thats the reason it's there?

So you either are trying to get the next AC game set in Oz, at which point you should be posting in the other thread I suggested.

OR

You are confusing people with your posts....?


Nassau is a base for the activity in the area.. for events in AC4.. it's events as a whole, that have made the difference..

The setting was decided - so they need a base..



End of the day, AC4 is set in the time of Pirates, 1700's with a Pirate antagonist - so where better to set it than the Caribbean - Nassau is a famous place during that time in the area - and is a base of operations for many Pirates - Pirates, events of the time and trading etc are important to world history.


AC5 [if there is one] may set the game in 1900's and we have a whole new ball game..

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 12:22 PM
So you believe the ramshackle village of Nassau had a bigger affect on world history than a city like say Sydney or Melbourne??
Also who ever said anything about a pirate assassin being in OZ ??

Let's stop with the 'bigger/smaller' affect on world history here. The importance of Nassau is directly tied to the importance of the period.
Golden Age of Piracy IS important for a number of reasons, it didn't change the face of the world directly like a big war would but it sure did affect a lot (akin to the Renaissance period, for example).
Nassau was the center of pirate activities at the end of the said Golden Age of Piracy.
Ergo, Nassau is important.

silvermercy
10-18-2013, 12:24 PM
I think you are focusing too much on Nassau..

It's a base for the activity in the area.. it's events as a whole, that have made the difference..

yup! It's not about Nassau, it's about the Caribbean in general. And Caribbean is important when it comes to the whole pirate culture (in the last few centuries at least).
So basically, it's not about the location but the culture.

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:26 PM
I think you are focusing too much on Nassau..

It's a base for the activity in the area.. it's events as a whole, that have made the difference..

Am I really though?
Ubisoft says that they only go to locations which was world important or world changing, how did Nassau change the world, or even the Caribbean for that matter??
It is important because if people want to tell me an AC can't be set in Australia because it isn't world important enough then why on earth should it be allowed to be set in a bunch of islands with towns most people have never even heard of???

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:29 PM
yup! It's not about Nassau, it's about the Caribbean in general. And Caribbean is important when it comes to the whole pirate culture (in the last few centuries at least).
So basically, it's not about the location but the culture.

AC prides itself on recreating cities which are important or world changing, IT IS ABOUT NASSAU, stop lying to yourself. Also pirate culture as a whole, how did this affect world history, AKA it didn't!!

Mr_Shade
10-18-2013, 12:33 PM
AC prides itself on recreating cities which are important or world changing, IT IS ABOUT NASSAU, stop lying to yourself. Also pirate culture as a whole, how did this affect world history, AKA it didn't!!

It's clear you are not willing to accept what has been posted.


I'll leave you be - and suggest others consider doing the same.


If you wish to suggest cities for future titles, please post in the correct thread.

pirate1802
10-18-2013, 12:33 PM
Well if you actually look at it in an unbiased way, you'll find Havana to be the main city of AC IV. It is certainly the biggest.

Also, how big was Forlii or Montereggioni exactly?

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 12:35 PM
Am I really though?
Ubisoft says that they only go to locations which was world important or world changing, how did Nassau change the world, or even the Caribbean for that matter??
It is important because if people want to tell me an AC can't be set in Australia because it isn't world important enough then why on earth should it be allowed to be set in a bunch of islands with towns most people have never even heard of???

Listen, I'm not trying to bash Australia in any way or form, but for ****'s sake, do you even read what we post?

Golden Age of Piracy in the Caribbean affected the decline and rise of different Empires (Spain and England), changed the way economics work and the way states viewed their borders and their territories, among other things. It DID affect the world.


Nassau was the epicenter of activities that led to the end of this period. It's the base of the most famous pirates of that era from which they worked from, those famous pirates were THE main reason why England decided to put a decisive stop to piracy, and it became a center of the successful anti-pirate movement (thanks to Woodes Rogers becoming the governor there) that led to the more intrinsic and less tangeable changes like mentioned and quoted views on economy and government (so stuff like that WOULDN'T happen again).

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:36 PM
Well if you actually look at it in an unbiased way, you'll find Havana to be the main city of AC IV. It is certainly the biggest.

Also, how big was Forlii or Montereggioni exactly?

Havana is a bug compared to the likes of Sydney, I used Nassau as an example because it is the ugliest of the three.

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:38 PM
Listen, I'm not trying to bash Australia in any way or form, but for ****'s sake, do you even read what we post?

Golden Age of Piracy in the Caribbean affected the decline and rise of different Empires (Spain and England), changed the way economics work and the way states viewed their borders and their territories, among other things. It DID affect the world.


Nassau was the epicenter of activities that led to the end of this period. It's the base of the most famous pirates of that era from which they worked from, those famous pirates were THE main reason why England decided to put a decisive stop to piracy, and it became a center of the successful anti-pirate movement (thanks to Woodes Rogers becoming the governor there) that led to the more intrinsic and less tangeable changes like mentioned and quoted views on economy and government (so stuff like that WOULDN'T happen again).

So your saying overall it lead to something called the anti-pirate movement?? Sounds hardly of world importance tbh...

pirate1802
10-18-2013, 12:39 PM
Havana is a bug compared to the likes of Sydney, I used Nassau as an example because it is the ugliest of the three.

And I'm sure Sydney would be a bug compared to some other cities. But anyhow, your comparison is flawed. If you want to say something about the city that is the focus of AC IV, you should complain against Havana. Not pick the smallest of the lot. You can also use this logic and say AC1 sucked because Kingdom sucked, AC 2 sucked because Forlii was tiny and AC3 sucked because Lexington was just a tavern. See?

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:39 PM
It's clear you are not willing to accept what has been posted.


I'll leave you be - and suggest others consider doing the same.


If you wish to suggest cities for future titles, please post in the correct thread.

Mr Shade is the first out as he knows I am correct but is trying to save face. He realises that Nassau is indeed not as important as say Sydney or Melbourne.

Farlander1991
10-18-2013, 12:40 PM
So your saying overall it lead to something called the anti-pirate movement?? Sounds hardly of world importance tbh...

*facepalm* I think you're just trolling. Did you miss the whole 'changes on how economy and state works' part on purpose? (not to mention the shift of balance of power from Spain to England?)

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:41 PM
And I'm sure Sydney would be a bug compared to some other cities. But anyhow, your comparison is flawed. If you want to say something about the city that is the focus of AC IV, you should complain against Havana. Not pick the smallest of the lot. You can also use this logic and say AC1 sucked because Kingdom sucked, AC 2 sucked because Forlii was tiny and AC3 sucked because Lexington was just a tavern. See?

Has nothing to do with the locations itself, it has to do with how important they are and how they affected world history, read the title again.

pirate1802
10-18-2013, 12:43 PM
Has nothing to do with the locations itself, it has to do with how important they are and how they affected world history, read the title again.

Tell that to yourself when you say oh this is just a village! Oh that is just a bug yada yada yada. I just used your way of thinking.

SpiritMuse
10-18-2013, 12:44 PM
Am I really though?
Ubisoft says that they only go to locations which was world important or world changing, how did Nassau change the world, or even the Caribbean for that matter??
It is important because if people want to tell me an AC can't be set in Australia because it isn't world important enough then why on earth should it be allowed to be set in a bunch of islands with towns most people have never even heard of???
I don't think anyone has said an AC can't be set in Australia, or that Australia isn't "important" enough. It's just not a setting they've chosen so far, but that's not to say they won't in the future. I don't really understand why you're so personally insulted by the fact that this game is set in the Caribbean?

Jayden26
10-18-2013, 12:44 PM
*facepalm* I think you're just trolling. Did you miss the whole 'changes on how economy and state works' part on purpose? (not to mention the shift of balance of power from Spain to England?)

If the Caribbean really did change the economy, why then can't Australia be a setting it was arguably more important than the Caribbean.
Also England did not exist during the 18th century it was the Kingdom of Great Britain.

Mr_Shade
10-18-2013, 12:45 PM
Mr Shade is the first out as he knows I am correct but is trying to save face. He realises that Nassau is indeed not as important as say Sydney or Melbourne.
hahah?

I'm the first out, since you are refusing to accept the reasons posted - I attempted to give you time to redeem your posting, however you didn't..



You have posted saying you 'picked nassau due to it being ugly' - a very valid reason.. for trolling.


Since you continued, I think it's safe to say - you have no intention of stopping prompting your own country and finding reasons to pick fault with others posts - so I guess best to lock.


Please post your suggestions for future titles in the correct thread.