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View Full Version : B&Z in not same as energy fighting.



BSS_Goat
02-27-2004, 09:00 AM
Look it up E fighting is tough. One B&Z and go screaming home is not. That should start a good discussion.****CRAWLS BACK UNDER ROCK*****

BSS_Goat
02-27-2004, 09:00 AM
Look it up E fighting is tough. One B&Z and go screaming home is not. That should start a good discussion.****CRAWLS BACK UNDER ROCK*****

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 09:07 AM
Get back out from under that Rock and explaine yourself !! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Sly_MaGill
02-27-2004, 09:20 AM
*climbs down from tree*

What he means is that Energy tactics where you repeatedly use a height/speed advantage, is different to doing a B&Z hit and run.

Eagle_361st
02-27-2004, 09:22 AM
*grabs trusty M-4 with troll scope and puts Rhett69 squarely in the cross hairs* "I like BnZ.........you got a problem with that?" "Please discuss"*switches selector to semi-auto for better controlled shots and waits for an answer*

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1003.jpg

ASH at S-MART
02-27-2004, 09:24 AM
BnZ = Boxing
TnB = Wrestling

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

BSS_Goat
02-27-2004, 09:26 AM
Cut and quoted from RAPIER:
Energy Fighting is the other major style of air combat that the airfighter can employ to win, the other being Angles Fighting. Where horizontal maneuvering and flat turns characterize angles fighting, energy fighting is characterized by vertical maneuvering and climbing or diving turns.

Ideally, energy tacticians will refrain from horizontal turns at all but will do all of their turning in the vertical by rolling to place their lift vector in the proper direction and then pulling back on the stick to that heading.....

ECT ECT ECT....

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 09:27 AM
There you go that didnt hurt now did it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Oh yeah your rock is over there I think http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
BnZ = Boxing
TnB = Wrestling

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boxing = mindless

Wrestling = GÓ*

flyingskid2
02-27-2004, 09:38 AM
Energy Fighting = Mixed Martial Arts

BSS_Goat
02-27-2004, 09:40 AM
Hey Eagle:

Rhett69 say(in best fake chinese voice):
B&Z is only E fighting but E fighting is not only B&Z.


PS I like B&Z too.

WWTaco
02-27-2004, 09:50 AM
Okay I'll bite...

Go read this stie and learn

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_024a.html

then go visit here and learn

http://www.aksquad.com/index.php?doc=51

Inhertently both TnB and B&Z are or can employ E fighting.

here's a quote from the second site.

"BnZ is incorporated into the E fighting folder because by definition, BnZ involves always being E superior, and having E superiority and employing it to gain angles is the E fighters modus operandi. But E fighting is a much larger group of tactical moves and counter moves than just "BnZ". A plane that can E fight, can also BnZ. A plane that can BnZ, cannot always E fight."

I think we all throw terms around not really knowing what it is exactly we speak of. What some may be calling BnZ is HnR or Hnc.

Once you are enculturated into the Energy FIghting way of thinking it opens a whole new world. It takes you to a higher level of consciousness. You stop look at it as a turn but rather as a E expending manuver and a it's not a dive but e acumalation tool.

You start "going to the bank" and make a withdraw from your e reserve or you go an make a deposit to your e bank....

Anyhoo,, onward and upward

S!

Taco

www.wingwalkers.org (http://www.wingwalkers.org)

since 1992

ASH at S-MART
02-27-2004, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Boxing = mindless

Wrestling = GÓ*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that what your mom told you to tell the bullys? LOL!

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 09:51 AM
Debating B&Z and T&b merits in a game = Waste of valuable bandwidth.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Boxing = mindless

Wrestling = GÓ*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that what your mom told you to tell the bullys? LOL!

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Err no but your comments are quite revealing. Dont come near me in future I have a piece of wood with a nail and your name on http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

ASH at S-MART
02-27-2004, 09:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Debating B&Z and T&b merits in a game = Waste of valuable bandwidth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is for sure.. Funny how some people dont understand something.. At which point most would go read up on it.. But some here feel the time is better spent to make negative comments about something they dont understand.. I guess ignorance is bliss? In that if they truly understood what TnB and BnZ is, they would realise that both are valid, both require skill, and both are necsary

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

ASH at S-MART
02-27-2004, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Err no but your comments are quite revealing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is for sure! Been there done that.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Dont come near me in future I have a piece of wood with a nail and your name on <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that what most GÓ*s have to resort to when they dont know how to box or wrestle?

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Debating B&Z and T&b merits in a game = Waste of valuable bandwidth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is for sure.. Funny how some people dont understand something.. At which point most would go read up on it.. But some here feel the time is better spent to make negative comments about something they dont understand.. I guess ignorance is bliss? In that if they truly understood what TnB and BnZ is, they would realise that both are valid, both require skill, and both are necsary

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey is that vein on your forehead supposed to look like that ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

ASH at S-MART
02-27-2004, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Hey is that vein on your forehead supposed to look like that ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! How did you say it?

"Debating B&Z and T&b merits in a game = Waste of valuable bandwidth."

Looks like you have alot of bandwidth to spare! ROTFL

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

Cajun76
02-27-2004, 10:01 AM
Kweassa just posted another nice post in the "invalid excuse" thread. I really like WWTaco's post, also.

Eagle, it's OK to put that thing on "Safe" now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

Lixma
02-27-2004, 10:06 AM
Energy fighting is the most elegant method to bring down an opponent. Rhett's right - it isn't BnZ. If anyone gets a chance to fly against the best pilots online do so...and record it. If they fly energy tactics it's a beautiful sight.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 10:09 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

I am not debating either I am taking the piss

Eagle_361st
02-27-2004, 10:20 AM
*trusty M-4 on safe* I am just messing around with Rhett. Check out my post in the other BnZ thread for the Jug drivers only though. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

~S!
Eagle
Commanding Officer 361st vFG
www.361stvfg.com (http://www.361stvfg.com)
http://home.comcast.net/~smconlon/wsb/media/245357/site1003.jpg

ASH at S-MART
02-27-2004, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
I am not debating either I am taking the piss<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Err no but your comments are quite revealing

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

Cajun76
02-27-2004, 10:37 AM
Me tinks I finds it, but there's a lot of "BnZ" threads running rampant and roughshod at the moment! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Nice post, sounds like good tactics. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
02-27-2004, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASH_SMART:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
I am not debating either I am taking the piss<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Err no but your comments are quite revealing

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go watch a couple of guys in leotards wrestling Ash you will feel all the better for it once you have unloaded http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S_J_G
02-27-2004, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWTaco:
Once you are enculturated into the Energy FIghting way of thinking it opens a whole new world. It takes you to a higher level of consciousness. You stop look at it as a turn but rather as a E expending manuver and a it's not a dive but e acumalation tool.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Surely a dive is an e-conversion tool rather than an e-accumulation tool.

You need more enculturation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Enculturate! Enculturate! You will be enculturated! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ASH at S-MART
02-27-2004, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Go watch a couple of guys in leotards wrestling Ash you will feel all the better for it once you have unloaded<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks, but that is not really my style.. But dont let that stop you.. If it works for you, go for it!

ASH at S-MART
http://www.thecobrasnose.com/images4/brucecampbellSMart.jpg

Cajun76
02-27-2004, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by S_J_G:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWTaco:
Once you are enculturated into the Energy FIghting way of thinking it opens a whole new world. It takes you to a higher level of consciousness. You stop look at it as a turn but rather as a E expending manuver and a it's not a dive but e acumalation tool.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Surely a dive is an e-conversion tool rather than an e-accumulation tool.

You need more enculturation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Enculturate! Enculturate! You will be enculturated! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Your enculturation are belong to us! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Good hunting,
Cajun76

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/Real_35a.gif
What if there were no hypothetical questions?

XyZspineZyX
02-27-2004, 11:07 AM
Whatever tactics you use, B&Z or T&B, it is still energy fighting if you are *mindful* of your energy state vs. your enemy's during the fight, and make tactical maneuver decisions based on energy state. That's the distinction.

In other words, if a break turn that bleeds a lot of energy will lead to a high percentage shot that will likely end the battle, you are still employing energy tactics by taking that shot. If you're just turning because "the enemy's over there" and I have to turn to shoot him (and you're not considering the consequences of the energy loss if the resulting shot fails to end the fight) then you're not energy fighting, you're just "dogfighting".

BM357_Raven
02-27-2004, 01:38 PM
I'm thinking about a tuna sub, and some guacamole Doritos right now...

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karost
02-27-2004, 02:05 PM
Hi,

well I feel good that people look deep in ART OF WWII AIR WAR COMBAT again


I have very old good manual for Energy Fighter tactic for you


http://www.beverley92.karoo.net/stkeaw.pdf


this manual is not good for new hunter IL2 FB coz if help for play EAW game.

so it require some ACM experience & skill to see the deep concept inside to play
in FB .


recommend for LW pilot and every one who like energy tactic should read..


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

S!

flyingskid2
02-27-2004, 02:16 PM
From the document, it appears EAW has a cheat: you know the exact speed of your opponent. So it's quite easier to compare energies.

karost
02-27-2004, 02:30 PM
flyingskid2 :

From the document, it appears EAW has a cheat: you know the exact speed of your opponent. So it's quite easier to compare energies.


LOL..... yes flyingskid2 : , that why I said
"this manual is not good for new hunter IL2 FB coz if help for play EAW game."


in FB you can not see HUD info from your guy
but if you have ACM experience ,then you will see what I mean.... it is more fun to read this book and develop your own tactic....

again.. develop your own tactic.... not dump copy concept with out research and try...

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif