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View Full Version : Forgotten Wars is going to kill this game dead.



ArcaneAzmadi
09-21-2013, 02:58 AM
Not looking good. No, it's not. I had a big post here ranting about Academy and how OP milling was, but then they mentioned there were counters in neutral, so I'm reserving judgement on that front. But I don't like the idea of relying on magic bullets, and from the look of the Academy reveal, this expansion could well be a disaster.

M0rw47h
09-21-2013, 03:14 AM
Sorry, but I disagree.

AmineM2
09-21-2013, 03:45 AM
I'm not scared of the new mechanics at all.

I can't wait I can test my anti_mill builds: I have 2 ideas at the moment and I'm on the mission to collect all the cards I need - I hope I can get them on time.

It will be challenging for sure and I like challenges. The meta is going to change very very much and I find it very interesting and very exciting. Many good decks will become useless and new ones will be created.

Of course there is a chance you are right: the devs are stupid or they were drunk during the development process and they committed suicide in a very sophisticated way. IMHO you can't say it before you see all the cards (especially new fortunes for old factions which might be very helpful) and before you give the players a chance to adjust to the new meta.

There is no need to press the panic button before we have all the data needed to make a valid assessment.

Bond2King
09-21-2013, 04:16 AM
From my first impressions Mill seems viable at best, mediocre or bad at worst, I don't know why you are claiming it will kill the game.

The new expansion seems sweet. The only criticism I can think of is that most of the strongest cards revealed so far are rare or epic.

AbisalAeneas
09-21-2013, 11:59 AM
From my first impressions Mill seems viable at best, mediocre or bad at worst, I don't know why you are claiming it will kill the game.

The new expansion seems sweet. The only criticism I can think of is that most of the strongest cards revealed so far are rare or epic.
Totally agree with you!!!

Ciolkmen
09-21-2013, 12:34 PM
The best thing in this expansion are counters to those decks, that rely only on one card (like atropos or might of the nature), which are really bad decks that makes current meta so boring. I'm really excited with forgotten wars.

Elementalist.
09-21-2013, 12:39 PM
Yes, I feel that with this addon the spells will not dominate anymore. However I have every reason to believe that academy will be ******* annoying to play against :)

Dannyd137
09-21-2013, 03:59 PM
creatures>fortunes>spell (except a few uniques which will make dictate the power of the deck, but they will have counters)- at least that`s my opinion about the new expansion
Cheers.

David.ss
09-22-2013, 05:52 AM
Sorry I disagree. I like the new mecahnic & academy faction introduce in the video "Twitch reveal" :)

SoAmazinglyBad
09-22-2013, 08:41 AM
Not looking good. No, it's not. I had a big post here ranting about Academy and how OP milling was, but then they mentioned there were counters in neutral, so I'm reserving judgement on that front. But I don't like the idea of relying on magic bullets, and from the look of the Academy reveal, this expansion could well be a disaster.

I went on 3 months break from doc, came back hoping that maybe u stop posting or quit game but u still here and cry a river about sth.... So funny guy :))

NagiShaman
09-22-2013, 08:43 AM
Discarding opponents cards always was very annoying, so comunity need to prepare for alot of QQ. Also i think that now dark, primal magic will be the most played because of these creatures with massive HP. Maybe they introduce us new dark,primal all board dmg spells :D

SoAmazinglyBad
09-22-2013, 08:46 AM
Vip team consist of a lot of top players and i am 100% sure they tried their best to balance game and allow all decks to have a chance to win. Maybe there will be 1 or 2 cards too strong but it always happens, but i am sure that game will not die.

Pjovejas
09-23-2013, 06:33 PM
I have a bad feeling for those, who cried how combo decks (slowpokes/OTK/mills) are unfair :) it may be, that they'll get one aditinioal combo archetype :D (board control + mill) :D

SoAmazinglyBad
09-23-2013, 10:26 PM
In my opinion right now more annoying then mill/stall decks are MoN, Song Of the lost wombo combo and WoA bug... MoN once on field vs no dark magic/primal/banshee is nearly insta lose (or u can use wombo combo, which is just annoying as ****... 7 turn in u can wipe enemy board and most of a time win a game if u have like 3 or 4 creature on board... just annoying as hell and u cant really do anything to stop it (except of inferno discard cards or mana storms... or mass removal constantly whole board so enemy doesnt have a huge lead after wombo combo))... And Woa bug is annoying and irritating :))

ArcaneAzmadi
09-23-2013, 10:45 PM
To expand on my original post (it was originally a lot longer, but I reconsidered), there are a number of cards that really bother me:

All the milling: In the Twitch reveal video, the dev defended the milling by claiming that most of the milling cards don't mill that much on their own. That's total nonsense. Almost none of them mill less than 3 cards per pop. Just PLAYING that stupid Void Shade guarantees 6 cards knocked off your opponent's deck (3 for playing it, 3 when it eventually dies) and that thing only costs 3 resources and is non-unique. In case you'd forgotten, for a standard 50-card deck, 6 cards is over 10% of your deck. The Void-Tainted Djinn knocks off 5 cards every time it kills something, which the dev defends by pointing out has to kill something (well no sh*t sherlock). Yeah, because a 3 power shooter is never going to get the chance to kill something. And even if it only kills one creature per game, that's 5 cards. Worst of all is Nethermancer which is basically like Naga Tactician if it didn't suck: it's tougher, it's magic damage, it's immune to retaliation and its effect is powerful enough that you can't just shrug off getting hit by it even late game (after turn 10 you simply don't care if your opponent gets another resource generation, but 3 more cards off your deck HURTS). The devs point out that they are including neutral counters cards to milling in the set, but they'd better be BLOODY good counters. And they'd better trigger when they get milled rather than requiring you to actually PLAY them to work, because milling is so strong that if you're relying on any specific card in your deck to do, well, ANYTHING, you're out of luck since it's more likely to be milled than drawn. Even aside from that, I think FORCING every deck to play with magic bullet hoser cards to be able to beat the massive rush of milling decks we're guaranteed to see is a REALLY bad idea.

Apprentice Wizard: This card bothers me because it's the best indicator I can find that the devs simply aren't trying. Yes, partly because it's overpowered (the best defence the dev could come up with for it's creature invincibility was that "you can't use it as a chump blocker" which has to be one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever heard) but mainly because it's a creature that's incapable of blocking... that has a point in retaliate. Seriously, they just don't care do they?

Shantiri Titan: This thing is simply stupid. A creature this powerful would be at LEAST a 6-drop in any other faction and it's HP is far too high for what it needs. Even in the video the interviewer seemed to realise how laughably insignificant its drawback is considering how much global damage people already use and the thing can survive a friggin' Armageddon and proceed to bash the enemy's undefended face in. And the most ridiculous thing of all? The stupid thing isn't even unique!

More to come, but I have to go to work.

Storm_dragoon
09-23-2013, 11:42 PM
Personally i think that Forgotten Wars is going to be good for the game. I've personally always enjoyed milling in Magic even though, outside of a really broken 2 card combo, I pretty much never won. The fact that you have to have creatures for the majority of the milling makes it fairly balanced in my opinion as there are plenty of ways to deal with creatures before they get the chance to attack or kill something. I've also listened to a couple of streams by the playtest group and they have pretty much all concluded that while milling is a decent strategy it isn't going to be overpowered or maybe even tier 1.

Next is a personal peeve that i've seemed to pick up. The fact that Apprentice Wizard has ret does NOT mean the devs are stupid or given up or anything. We have only seen the academy cards and a couple spoiled spells. We have no idea what there is going to be in other factions there could be cards coming out that make creatures lose phased. Even if there isn't there is a card out RIGHT NOW that changes Attack to Equal Retribution. If nothing else giving the Apprentice wizard 1 ret makes it so that card doesn't drop him to 0. That by itself could have been a reason to give it 1 ret.

TLDR: Making judgments before the full set is revealed is pointless but fun.

budynzmajonezem
09-23-2013, 11:42 PM
Apprentice Wizard has point in retaliate probably because they just wanted to spend all his "skill points" (cause every creature is balanced in this way), but 3 in attack or health would've been too much. But still, even if it's a meaningless stat for now, it could be used in some way in future, who knows.
And he's not op at all, because like DA, he dies from firebolt/earthquake or anything else.

As for Shantiri Titan, it looks great even without any abilities, but it has fking Shockwave 3 (2? i don't remember). I think it will be autoinclude in all creature based academy decks, at least mine.

I'm not too sure about these mill creatures/fortunes, but if it will be consistent enough for competitive play, it will be far better and more enjoyable than current ****ty stall decks. The thing with milling is, no matter how many cards did you mill from your opponent's library, if there are still cards left to play, you didn't actually do anything. It's same as shuffling his library (actually, cards put into graveyard can be easily retrieved, at least with necro or maybe some academy cards) (oke not counting milling uniques or some win condition cards, but they might as well be discarded, happens).

Shippal
09-25-2013, 10:52 AM
Apprentice Wizard: This card bothers me because it's the best indicator I can find that the devs simply aren't trying. Yes, partly because it's overpowered (the best defence the dev could come up with for it's creature invincibility was that "you can't use it as a chump blocker" which has to be one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever heard) but mainly because it's a creature that's incapable of blocking... that has a point in retaliate. Seriously, they just don't care do they?

1 point in Retaliate means that if the Haven Fortune which forces all creatures to use their Retaliate value instead of their Attack value for a turn will leave this creature with 1 Attack. Like ttyieu mentioned, it's to use up its "skill points", and it does have a (very minor) effect.

AlbelV
11-20-2013, 05:33 PM
To expand on my original post (it was originally a lot longer, but I reconsidered), there are a number of cards that really bother me:

All the milling: In the Twitch reveal video, the dev defended the milling by claiming that most of the milling cards don't mill that much on their own. That's total nonsense. Almost none of them mill less than 3 cards per pop. Just PLAYING that stupid Void Shade guarantees 6 cards knocked off your opponent's deck (3 for playing it, 3 when it eventually dies) and that thing only costs 3 resources and is non-unique. In case you'd forgotten, for a standard 50-card deck, 6 cards is over 10% of your deck. The Void-Tainted Djinn knocks off 5 cards every time it kills something, which the dev defends by pointing out has to kill something (well no sh*t sherlock). Yeah, because a 3 power shooter is never going to get the chance to kill something. And even if it only kills one creature per game, that's 5 cards. Worst of all is Nethermancer which is basically like Naga Tactician if it didn't suck: it's tougher, it's magic damage, it's immune to retaliation and its effect is powerful enough that you can't just shrug off getting hit by it even late game (after turn 10 you simply don't care if your opponent gets another resource generation, but 3 more cards off your deck HURTS). The devs point out that they are including neutral counters cards to milling in the set, but they'd better be BLOODY good counters. And they'd better trigger when they get milled rather than requiring you to actually PLAY them to work, because milling is so strong that if you're relying on any specific card in your deck to do, well, ANYTHING, you're out of luck since it's more likely to be milled than drawn. Even aside from that, I think FORCING every deck to play with magic bullet hoser cards to be able to beat the massive rush of milling decks we're guaranteed to see is a REALLY bad idea.

Apprentice Wizard: This card bothers me because it's the best indicator I can find that the devs simply aren't trying. Yes, partly because it's overpowered (the best defence the dev could come up with for it's creature invincibility was that "you can't use it as a chump blocker" which has to be one of the STUPIDEST things I've ever heard) but mainly because it's a creature that's incapable of blocking... that has a point in retaliate. Seriously, they just don't care do they?

Shantiri Titan: This thing is simply stupid. A creature this powerful would be at LEAST a 6-drop in any other faction and it's HP is far too high for what it needs. Even in the video the interviewer seemed to realise how laughably insignificant its drawback is considering how much global damage people already use and the thing can survive a friggin' Armageddon and proceed to bash the enemy's undefended face in. And the most ridiculous thing of all? The stupid thing isn't even unique!

More to come, but I have to go to work.

Well I guess all that milling is not that strong after all eh? It is annoying as hell but as you can see the meta is rush. Creatures > Fortunes > Spells.

I used a half-assed deck and beat someone who summoned 2 Shantiri Titians on the board. Rush + outmaneuver (:

But at the end of the day, there will always be an advantage/disadvantage for a certain deck against another certain deck. It is just the nature of any game. It's what makes it fun at times - fighting against the odds, and win.