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Azurefeatherfly
09-06-2013, 05:57 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/03/03/assassins-creed-iv-black-flag-and-the-lackluster-combat-of-ubisofts-flagship-action-franchise/

A very good opinion piece that I think is worth reading.

Hans684
09-06-2013, 06:56 PM
Agree that the combat is not a challenge.

2 bullet kill from all enemy's.
3 enemy hits and you are either dead or have to run away.
No counter or make some enemy's to be able to counter you then you have counter their counter(does not nd with a dead guard. The guard and you will just a little health.)
Go and ask for the Batman Arkham enemy A.I combat coding(no joke).
If unarmed you can't take enemy veapons in combat(only on ground) and 2 hit kill by enemy.
And a difficulty level that have the current combat(easy), a level that has some thing between what suggested(mid) and the last with everything above(hard).

Sushiglutton
09-06-2013, 08:22 PM
I think it's fantastic that jounalists are starting to address the issue of AC's weak gameplay. It's a great franchise, but it's not nearly as fun to play as it deserves. Maybe more articles like this can convince Ubi to invest in quality gameplay.

AnthonyA85
09-06-2013, 08:45 PM
I will admit, combat does need to be more difficult. Kill Streaks should be the first thing to go. In ACB there were cool, in ACR they were meh, and in AC3, they were just unnecessary.

One way to make combat harder, would be for the player's injuries to be reflected in how they move on-screen. If you're barely alive, and only one point away from Desynching, then you shouldn't be able to run a marathon and slaughter an army, you should be hobbling around barely able to stand, and barely able to fight.

dxsxhxcx
09-06-2013, 10:02 PM
One way to make combat harder, would be for the player's injuries to be reflected in how they move on-screen. If you're barely alive, and only one point away from Desynching, then you shouldn't be able to run a marathon and slaughter an army, you should be hobbling around barely able to stand, and barely able to fight.

IMO this could become an annoyance pretty fast and the way the guards are stupid now, we would barely reach this near death situation so this would be pointless without put some work on the enemy side as well, IMO what they need to do is make the guards more agressive (attack more often and in groups and not only one by one), make them deal more damage, give them the abilities they had in AC1 (and use them), 6 against 1 shouldn't be a situation we could just hack and slash everyone with little to no effort or simply keep pressing the attack button to win, there should be tension in a situation like this.

I also think our health should work in a similar way like the broken armors in AC2/B worked, if we take too much damage the max amount of health the character has will decrease more and more as we get hit and we won't be able to fully regenerate our health bar until we find a doctor to cure us...

LoyalACFan
09-06-2013, 10:46 PM
I feel like timing should return. In AC1 (and to a lesser extent AC2) you had to time your counter quite nicely to actually perform a counter kill, especially with the hidden blade. But in AC3 you could press it as soon as the enemy began to take a swing, and in ACB/ACR the counter window was so large it didn't matter anyway. Maybe if you pressed the block button just before the enemy stroke fell, you would transition into the AC3-style slo-mo where you can choose to disarm, kill, throw, etc. but if you press it too early you simply parry the stroke and the enemy takes no damage.

robinthefactory
09-06-2013, 10:52 PM
IMO this could become an annoyance pretty fast and the way the guards are stupid now, we would barely reach this near death situation so this would be pointless without put some work on the enemy side as well, IMO what they need to do is make the guards more agressive (attack more often and in groups and not only one by one), make them deal more damage, give them the abilities they had in AC1 (and use them), 6 against 1 shouldn't be a situation we could just hack and slash everyone with little to no effort or simply keep pressing the attack button to win, there should be tension in a situation like this.

I also think our health should work in a similar way like the broken armors in AC2/B worked, if we take too much damage the max amount of health the character has will decrease more and more as we get hit and we won't be able to fully regenerate our health bar until we find a doctor to cure us...

Damn! I was going to point that out.:nonchalance: Anyway I do agree with you, the farther the AC franchise goes the more it loses its traditional roots of past incarnations.

ladyleonhart
09-06-2013, 11:00 PM
Maybe if you pressed the block button just before the enemy stroke fell, you would transition into the AC3-style slo-mo where you can choose to disarm, kill, throw, etc. but if you press it too early you simply parry the stroke and the enemy takes no damage.

I like this idea. :) That would create a good balance.

Also, I started replaying ACIII recently and during Haytham's ship sequence at the beginning that to parry you have to hold the 'O' button (PS3) and you do this before you're attacked and keep holding until you have a successful parry. So boring. o_0; I could've done that with my eyes shut. Then, for example, maybe they shouldn't let you hold 'O' and then, in this case, you would also have to perfect your timing in order to parry a blow.

As for your idea above, maybe they could also make the 'slow-mo disarm, kill, throw' window a fraction smaller too. Then, if you aren't quick enough in choosing, slow-mo stops and you are open to an attack straight away. Lol, I guess maybe I mean less time for the slow-motion. Then, maybe, faster slow-mo. :p

Sushiglutton
09-06-2013, 11:39 PM
I feel like timing should return. In AC1 (and to a lesser extent AC2) you had to time your counter quite nicely to actually perform a counter kill, especially with the hidden blade. But in AC3 you could press it as soon as the enemy began to take a swing, and in ACB/ACR the counter window was so large it didn't matter anyway. Maybe if you pressed the block button just before the enemy stroke fell, you would transition into the AC3-style slo-mo where you can choose to disarm, kill, throw, etc. but if you press it too early you simply parry the stroke and the enemy takes no damage.


I think it's perhaps even more important to add more moves to the combat. Especially so that you can string together a series of moves for various effects to get some more depth and strategy. As it is now combat is way to simplistic and flat to a point it's a bit of a sleeping pill

ladyleonhart
09-06-2013, 11:47 PM
I think it's perhaps even more important to add more moves to the combat. Especially so that you can string together a series of moves for various effects to get some more depth and strategy. As it is now combat is way to simplistic and flat to a point it's a bit of a sleeping pill

Out of curiosity, what kind of moves would you suggest...? Then, maybe if there are too many we may still have the same problem.

Sushiglutton
09-07-2013, 12:01 AM
Out of curiosity, what kind of moves would you suggest...? Then, maybe if there are too many we may still have the same problem.

Good question! Basically I mostly compare with Arkham City which I think is far superior. I think that game has a great selection of moves and gadgets that can be combined in various ways while still being easy to perform. Let me think a couple of days and then perhaps make a thread suggesting some new moves for AC ;)!

ladyleonhart
09-07-2013, 12:10 AM
Good question! Basically I mostly compare with Arkham City which I think is far superior. I think that game has a great selection of moves and gadgets that can be combined in various ways while still being easy to perform. Let me think a couple of days and then perhaps make a thread suggesting some new moves for AC ;)!
Thank you for taking me seriously, Sushi. :D I have never played Arkham City, but if the combat is that good it will be very interesting to see what ideas you have to improve AC's combat. Then, I will be looking forward to your thread. :)

Edit: Just wanted to say that there's no pressure at all if you do change your mind about making a thread about it though. I will still look forward to hearing your ideas, of course. :)

Azurefeatherfly
09-07-2013, 12:36 AM
I think it's perhaps even more important to add more moves to the combat. Especially so that you can string together a series of moves for various effects to get some more depth and strategy. As it is now combat is way to simplistic and flat to a point it's a bit of a sleeping pill

What they need to do is create a dozen or maybe more different and varying techniques strictly made for the AI to attack the Player with. Each unique enemy unit should have their own defences that compliment and cover the weaknesses of fellow enemy units. This way the player would not just be fighting single soldiers that step up to get slaughtered but rather a single cohesive fighting unit where enemy types protect each other.

Players will obviously be given the tools necessary to attack the weakness each enemy type, however Players must learn to prioritize targets, memorize enemy behaviours and weaknesses, avoid their strengths and use the tools and moves in an appropriate manner that fits the enemy type being targeted. Forcing the player to remember enemy abilities and player counter abilities makes it so that you can never rely on one or two ways to get you out every time.The Counter-Kill is something that covers too many attacks, and Double Counter is way too simple. To be a good player must mean taking the time learning how to play and Assassin's Creed has always been too easy to learn.

The idea of parrying should be eliminated to raise the vulnerability of the Player. There must be instances we are forced to dodge, forced to stun,forced to throw and forced to do something other than countering or attacking. Forcing the Player to respond in various ways at any time the AI wishes means that the Player can never relax and must always pay attention and constantly remember the enemy unit abilities to avoid being hit and killed.

AI response needs to be way more aggressive, attacks need more damage, and AI must consistently use abilities to keep the Player on his/her toes.

LoyalACFan
09-07-2013, 04:11 AM
I like this idea. :) That would create a good balance.

Also, I started replaying ACIII recently and during Haytham's ship sequence at the beginning that to parry you have to hold the 'O' button (PS3) and you do this before you're attacked and keep holding until you have a successful parry. So boring. o_0; I could've done that with my eyes shut. Then, for example, maybe they shouldn't let you hold 'O' and then, in this case, you would also have to perfect your timing in order to parry a blow.

As for your idea above, maybe they could also make the 'slow-mo disarm, kill, throw' window a fraction smaller too. Then, if you aren't quick enough in choosing, slow-mo stops and you are open to an attack straight away. Lol, I guess maybe I mean less time for the slow-motion. Then, maybe, faster slow-mo. :p

Thanks ;) Yeah, the "holding O" move was pointless when you could just tap it and kill most enemies instantly with another tap of Square. And it made it even more noticeable that enemies only attacked one at a time.

I agree about shortening the counter window too. Connor's was a little bit ridiculous :p


Good question! Basically I mostly compare with Arkham City which I think is far superior. I think that game has a great selection of moves and gadgets that can be combined in various ways while still being easy to perform. Let me think a couple of days and then perhaps make a thread suggesting some new moves for AC ;)!

I agree that the combat could take some more notes from Arkham in terms of flow, but I think we have enough moves already. The thing with Batman is, everything is non-lethal, and the comic book nature of it means they can get away with more sci-fi elements and add some tactical gadgets in addition to knock-out ones. You've got stuff like the electric blast, explosive gel, batarangs, and freeze bombs that stun or incapacitate enemies, but in AC, stuff like that can't really come into play. To my knowledge, there just aren't any historical real-life weapons that would suit the purpose of momentarily disabling an enemy rather than killing them outright. And since you can just flat-out kill an enemy from a distance with a pistol shot or throwing knife, I think it might feel useless even if we had them.

AdamPearce
09-07-2013, 04:34 AM
I think they should limit the killstreaks to 2 or 3. So that way you can't get rid of a whole crew by just spamming a button.
Put more of those counter for the AI, that added some difficulty.
Remove completly the slow-mo, it's way to easy that way and it will play on timing
Make the Hidden blade only for Stealth
No restoring life.
Agressive group AI

Just by adding this to the actual system, it would get more difficult.

but if they do that they will also have to improve the chasing system because it is even more lame that the combat one.