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Ki_Rin
05-23-2004, 12:03 AM
IL2/FB...wow, a great game...
As with I imagine, most of you out there, like myself, grew up dreaming about flying any of your favorite WW2 warbirds...or all of them!

From those lil biplane loop de loop games in Atari 2600, through Intelivision's FighterX, or B-17 Bomber (with Intellivoice(TM)), Commodore 64's Hellcat Ace, and so on, and up to the pinnacle(?), IL2/FB, these video games bring us closer to realizing that.

The closer these games get to the real thing, it seems, the more ado there is...albeit with good reason, given how strongly we feel about these awesome machines...

But DAYUM!...pass me a Tylenol...maybe even one of those arsenic-laced ones...

So much whining, flaming, and plain ole ****!
(at least as far as the forum concerning this game goes)...
The "luftwhiners", or "amiwhiners"? geez, (and forgive any and many ignorances on my part concerning whatever may follow) I don't care either way, I simply want ALL types to perform as correctly as possible, if this type really sucked, make it suck, and vice versa...
The hostile attitudes of those who may not agree with a poster's topic, often can't seem to follow a forum's purpose, to debate, reasonably, and hopefully, with real facts or data...
Not to mention those that ***** about how nasty forums are, hehe
Mind you, there are some reprieves in the forum, in the way of good laughs, and, well, reasonable debate and real facts and data...sadly, not enough
It's all almost enough to make me want to go backwards in the genre, keep it simple, stupid....
No worrying about wether thsi or that plane is right, or the oneyou cant bring down, or can loop around your porked slug....
I just reinstalled Janes WW2 fighters, and I think I may play it more and more again...( yea, yea, I know, "then why don't you just go there and shutup already?")
Well, it's graphics, compared to FB, given the respective ages or each, and the system reqs, eassily edge out FB...especially the cockpits...
Stop reading here if you do NOT want to hear more of this tirade http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I think 1C should be advised to look to it's forebears and maybe pick up some valid points to improve this gaem, or any others upcoming...
In regards to Janes;
the chat was WAY better...
FB has tons of great planes, whereas Jane shad but 5...but those 5 , while maybe not having accurate Fms, per se, one got the feeling that these types were very accurate, in terms of thier relative performance between each other...damn, you just strap this game on and go.....lotsa FUN
ahhhhhh carefree days of flying and fightin...you ex-Janes pilots out there know...you know....
Newer aint necessarily better...
That said, FB is still a great game, but it's still lacking in SO many ways...
I sincerely hope one day this game can be what it really SHOULD be...before the next generation of sim, requiring yet another generation of over$$$ supercomputer to run

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Ki_Rin
05-23-2004, 12:03 AM
IL2/FB...wow, a great game...
As with I imagine, most of you out there, like myself, grew up dreaming about flying any of your favorite WW2 warbirds...or all of them!

From those lil biplane loop de loop games in Atari 2600, through Intelivision's FighterX, or B-17 Bomber (with Intellivoice(TM)), Commodore 64's Hellcat Ace, and so on, and up to the pinnacle(?), IL2/FB, these video games bring us closer to realizing that.

The closer these games get to the real thing, it seems, the more ado there is...albeit with good reason, given how strongly we feel about these awesome machines...

But DAYUM!...pass me a Tylenol...maybe even one of those arsenic-laced ones...

So much whining, flaming, and plain ole ****!
(at least as far as the forum concerning this game goes)...
The "luftwhiners", or "amiwhiners"? geez, (and forgive any and many ignorances on my part concerning whatever may follow) I don't care either way, I simply want ALL types to perform as correctly as possible, if this type really sucked, make it suck, and vice versa...
The hostile attitudes of those who may not agree with a poster's topic, often can't seem to follow a forum's purpose, to debate, reasonably, and hopefully, with real facts or data...
Not to mention those that ***** about how nasty forums are, hehe
Mind you, there are some reprieves in the forum, in the way of good laughs, and, well, reasonable debate and real facts and data...sadly, not enough
It's all almost enough to make me want to go backwards in the genre, keep it simple, stupid....
No worrying about wether thsi or that plane is right, or the oneyou cant bring down, or can loop around your porked slug....
I just reinstalled Janes WW2 fighters, and I think I may play it more and more again...( yea, yea, I know, "then why don't you just go there and shutup already?")
Well, it's graphics, compared to FB, given the respective ages or each, and the system reqs, eassily edge out FB...especially the cockpits...
Stop reading here if you do NOT want to hear more of this tirade http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I think 1C should be advised to look to it's forebears and maybe pick up some valid points to improve this gaem, or any others upcoming...
In regards to Janes;
the chat was WAY better...
FB has tons of great planes, whereas Jane shad but 5...but those 5 , while maybe not having accurate Fms, per se, one got the feeling that these types were very accurate, in terms of thier relative performance between each other...damn, you just strap this game on and go.....lotsa FUN
ahhhhhh carefree days of flying and fightin...you ex-Janes pilots out there know...you know....
Newer aint necessarily better...
That said, FB is still a great game, but it's still lacking in SO many ways...
I sincerely hope one day this game can be what it really SHOULD be...before the next generation of sim, requiring yet another generation of over$$$ supercomputer to run

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

LeChuck59
05-23-2004, 12:18 AM
Thanks for sharing that avant garde formatting style with the board. The content was ok, but DAYUM, I enjoyed moving from one line to the next. Good show!

ucanfly
05-23-2004, 12:22 AM
I sometimes wonder what the EA Jane's team could have produced today, if they were not dissolved. Oleg has taken tremndous strides where authenticity ,planeset, tracks,anti-cheating , and terrain, but left us rather lacking in the interface atmosphere, and A/V extras.

Personally I was surpised when every object or vehicle didn't have it's own external view in IL2, and when there weren't squads of individual soldiers that we could put in the FMB. I agree that in some ways Jane's WWII fighters had things in it that are still not surpassed today like cockpit creaks and groans, true gore, visibility of distant planes, and coms, but the UFos and limited players online will not be missed and the planeset is extremely narrow. There is also no CEM to speak of. I also disagree about the cockpits (IL2 is better) except that we could at least adjust head position (but not FOV) in Janes.

I just hope that BOB will once and for all not leave us wanting in certain (albeit very limited) areas. We'll watch the Dev updates with interest.

LEXX_Luthor
05-23-2004, 12:24 AM
FB is lacking in gameplay for offwhine player, and nothing will change that. Hopefully by BoB Oleg will know how to either provide Dyamic Campaign or provide the tools to easily make them.

Yes, that was a Great post, but Bad posting--or formatting. Those 5 planes we get every night here on teh USA Dogfighter Channel. That's why when I want to watch educational TV I watch Canada's LEXX.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It's all almost enough to make me want to go backwards in the genre, keep it simple, stupid...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The simple stupid Whining, or the FB sim? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack


"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

RedDeth
05-23-2004, 05:04 AM
janes has an add on cd that makes the graphics better than fb and adds doras yaks las etc etc.

janes was more fun than IL2. only reason i left was everybody left

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1083458407_knightsmove-taylor.jpg

crazyivan1970
05-23-2004, 06:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
janes has an add on cd that makes the graphics better than fb and adds doras yaks las etc etc.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Care to back it up with screenshot? It`s easy to make a statement, but not that easy to back it up http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Especially in this scenario http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Beirut
05-23-2004, 06:56 AM
Go over to www.ww2fighters.org (http://www.ww2fighters.org) and check it out.

There are three FREE CDs (you have to pay for the cost of the CD and shipping, around $5 each) available with hundreds and hundreds of megs of new planes, flight models, new terrains, high res cockpits and ground objects, tracers, flak, clouds, sound packs, skins (Hammerd made INCREDIBLE skins for this game!!!), missions, all sorts of stuff.

There is no doubt that IL2-FB ACE is THE WWII flightsim, but anyone overlooking Janes WWII Fighters is missing a great flight. The graphics, when the mods are installed, are nothing short of luscious. And with today's CPUs and video cards, you can absolutely cram the sky full of bombers and interceptors and get a scenario going that you will not believe. Fly escort for few dozen B-17s getting hit by twenty German fighters at sunset and you will have a graphics show that is almost unmatched by any flightsim anywhere. Pure Haagen-Dazs for the eyes.

And the mission editor has a trigger function that IL2 can't come close to comparing to. There is no dynamic campaign, but the trigger function lets you build missions with tons of "if this happens- then that will happen" events. IL2 should have this function. It's worth it's weight in gold.

If you can even find a copy of WWII Fighters, buy it! The high res (mods) P-47 & P-51 models are excellent and the new P-51 cockpit with reflective glass is awesome.

It may not be IL2 with all the bells and whistles, but it is one helluva great flightsim!

"Official Lancaster whiner"

Lav69
05-23-2004, 07:32 AM
The planes look...ok. The landscapes look like ****. No thanks. Fb rules.

_______________
I'm fixin to.

glottis77
05-23-2004, 07:42 AM
come on!!! janes ww2f was a not even a simulator when it came out! of course it had wonderful grafix for 1998, but gameplay??? eaw all the way! a p47 in ww2f could turn, loop and hardly ever stall, now i don't even want to talk about the p51d...
don't forget that between janes ww2f and il2 were only 3 years, but in game quality it were 3 lightyears.

raaaid
05-23-2004, 07:57 AM
if they had learnt what was good in the past they would have modelled a head movement like in wwii, well at least they put a mouse view not like microsoft

GT182
05-23-2004, 08:50 AM
Beirut, excellent. Jane's was the best for it's time and still looks good with the addons.

glottis77 and raaaid, you can't compare Jane's with FB. Game engines are not the same. If Jane's was built using Olegs game engine, it would be a totally differnt ballgame. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"GT182" / "vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net (http://www.bombs-away.net)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

Bull_dog_
05-23-2004, 09:43 AM
I saw a post a while back that I really agreed with and it had to do with wingmen, EAW and immersion.

Where this game and the CFS series seem to have fallen behind is what I'll call the X-factor (immersion).

The AI is superb in FB and that is the main draw, but the chatter, the music of janes (I loved it), the building of a campaign and the taking care of your unit...being vectored onto targets, damage effects, ect....

It is hard for me to describe, but the immersion and tunability of a game (Mission builder and settings) really does it for me. Oleg is onto something with the closed architecture for online gameplay, but it causes so much stir on these forums as different players lobby for this and that.

Complexity of FM, AI and accuracy of the physical models are by far FB strong points. To me the scenery is ok but it doesn't move me like flying over the Owen Stanley's in CFS2...we'll see of Luthier can fix that! Tunability of the game and chatter/immersion are FB weak points and the mission builder is really weak with no triggers, spawning etc...no ability to create randomness or suprise anyone...that is the key to a mission builder. You must be able to build missions that take place like a well orchrestrated play or have the randomness of pandora's box.

Enough said...FB is the best thing going...I loved Janes and CFS2 for a time...now it is FB time. There are really 3 things that keep me from going back to CFS 2... 1) AI it is soooo much better than CFS2 2) On line play with lack of cheating and now we have lots of planes and finally 3) Complex flight model...no I don't agree with how everything is modelled but overall it is much more challenging and requires real thought, strategy and a lot of discovery to figure out how to kill a La5fn when your flying a Fw A5 on line.

Ki_Rin
05-23-2004, 09:48 AM
Wow, not that I slighted FB, but to even merely suggest it lacks in some ways, and no get flamed to hell, is nice...my apologies for my post's "format", it'll get as I go along...I hear you, RedDeth, I hung around Janes for so long, just me and the tumbleweeds...EAW was good, too, even if the rudders were not animated...Janes tgt window system was great, sure, it was arcade, but IMHO it did compensate for not having the RL MK I eyeball, and one only has to look at FB visibility, with an ac approaching looming larger, then suddenly shrinking in size, hehe...as for cockpits, at the very least, the 38 cockpit of Janes really does put FB's to shame, no offence to those who labored on it (Im not sure how to post pics here, but maybe someone can do one of those split screen comparisons?.......)...yes, it's a shame they didn't addon to Janes, it would have stayed on top a LOT longer...I'll leave it to others to mention thier favorite little things about Jane's, but I'll also add that I liked the victory markings, the scoring format, (no points!)and so on...
Lav69, sure the terrains sucked, but at least in df servers, who cares? give me a flat plane of gray for a terrain, just make the flying and fighting part good!
glottis, it was never touted as a simulator anyway, as is the case with Fb...(can you say 109Z?...muzzle flash?...how about torque?)
The tracers of yellow streaks, wether .50s, or Mk108s, were lame, but at least no robotech-like muzzle flash!
Ok, FB is still overall better, but 'twould be nice to see future patches incorporate some of Jane's, or for that matter, the redeeming qualities of other games, into it, if at al possible.
I do remember before finally giving in and getting IL2 (only because EVRYONE else, it seemed, and thier brother), looking wistfully on in the IL2 lobby, wishing Janes ever had the ability to "join in progress", and knowing IL2 pilots, upon revivals, would not be limited to air starts only......
Correct me if Im wrong, (and Im sure I will be, and actually, thankfully so) but the Janes 109 would often "lawn-dart"...even before Janes, I thought it was accurate that RL 109s would get firstly heavy ailerons, then loss of elevators at higher speeds, and that this was reproduced well in Jane's...Im not a 109 pilot in FB, so I wouldn't know, but is this the case, both in RL, and in FB? (gawd, I hope this doesn,t produce a tangent in this post about 109s, and fo rthat matter, the "luftwhiner/anti-luftwhiner" set) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

tsisqua
05-23-2004, 10:30 AM
Quite simply, if there had been no Jane's WWII Fighters, there would be no IL2.

Take a look at who some of the contributors are on that Base Mods CD. Especially the Eastern front mods. The best mods are the Russian ones. Oleg stated that EAW, and WWII Fighters were his favorite ones to play in the early days.

I cannot help but feel that IL2 is an updated version of WWII Fighters. Of course, that is just IMO.


Tsisqua

Aaron_GT
05-23-2004, 10:39 AM
Indeed, and it looks like Hammerd is part of the IL2 community too, now.

tsisqua
05-23-2004, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
Indeed, and it looks like Hammerd is part of the IL2 community too, now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgr that, and Hammerd, aka Hammster, will (I hear on the grapevine) will be releasing a new skin soon. Rest assured, whatever he turns out will be quality.

Tsisqua

TX-Bomblast
05-23-2004, 10:51 AM
Well, Well,
Lets see now, Janes WWII Fighters has and always will have the best 3D models around. I'm not talking about the default junk, but the modded ones,in the add-on CD, by Hammerd, Rammjager and so on.
Don't get me wrong here, WWII Fighters and FB are totaly different games, sadly, they always will be.
I sure wish that EA would release the sorce code for the game, the day they do watch out.
Janes WWII fighters will always have a spot on my HD, eventhough I play FB most of the time now.

Crazyivan, if you want hirez in game screen shots, go to the Janes WWII fighters site.

www.ww2fighters.org (http://www.ww2fighters.org)

All the guys there are really nice, well behaved and damm proud of what they done.

TX-Bomblast
Black4

[This message was edited by TX-Bomblast on Sun May 23 2004 at 10:31 AM.]

Hawg-dawg
05-23-2004, 11:04 AM
I loved Janes ....... I would still fly.
I Just checked on Game Spy and no one was there. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

AKA Bad-MF(Mongral Fighter).... Member... Kelly Johnsons SKUNK WORKS
Sucka Free since 1969..... Fatboys Forever

musickna
05-23-2004, 12:02 PM
While I do think in the FM & graphics depts, FB has got Jane's thoroughly beat (even allowing for the very high cockpit standards in Jane's), there is not a doubt that in the chat area, Jane's is far superior to FB.

Simply, the quality of the voice actors puts the FB bunch to shame - particularly the Americans who totally outclass the colorless and unexpressive bunch in FB. I cringe when I hear the FB voices, whereas I snap to attention when I get a direction from the authoritive commands in Jane's. One day I will figure out how to import the Jane's voices into FB.

Ki_Rin
05-23-2004, 12:52 PM
Ya, the voices were great....."My kite's been pranged!"..."Son of a *****!"..."i'll report you to your supierior!"...and my favorite, after a German totally destoys an opponent, "I'll see you in HELL!" lmao

BTW, check out this site...IMO, totally amazing CGI, I use this guy's stuff for my desktop wallpaper...http://www2.cc22.ne.jp/~harada/

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Beirut
05-23-2004, 01:32 PM
For those who have never played with the janes Mission Editor and its trigger system, I'll give an example of its versatility.

A strike mission against an enemy airfield.

Route One has very heavy AAA and you must fly below 500' or else face a 100% chance of fighters responding.

Route two has medium AAA but a 50/50 chance of encountering fighters at any altitude.

Route three has light AAA but a 90% chance of encountering fighters if you fly above 50'.

On approach to the airfield, you have a time limit to destroy the radio tower (corresponding to a realistic distance at which the tower would see your aircraft) or it will trigger more fighters in response. It can also trigger V1 rockets being fired at your own airfield.

If you do not intercept the V1s, text is generated giving you directions to another airfield to land at. And on the way there, more triggers, corresponding to your choice of altitude and speed and route, can bring about more chances (10% to 100%) of fighters attacking you.

You can even have one trigger give a 10% to 100% chance of triggering another trigger. You could also have triggers give a 10% to 100% chance of giving a 10% to 100% amount of damage to your plane corresponding to defined events. The ability to build dynamic missions is almost limitless. One mission can be flown twenty times and never play out the same way.

I built one mission where you had to destroy the flak cars of a stationary train but leave one car (with POWs) intact. Hit the POW car, you lose. Take too long to destroy the flak cars and German trucks would trigger and leave the scene carrying the POWs away, and the flak cars would hit the C-47s three minutes behind you. Again, you wouldlose. Then, when the flak cars were (hopefully) destroyed, C-47s dropped paratroopers and jeeps (jeeps trigger spawned to the C-47s flying overhead) which then had to approach the POW car, simulating a resue, then race away ahead of responding German armour which you had to destroy. If too many jeeps were hit, you lose. And triggers giving random % of German fighter response were also included. Fly it a dozen times and different things would happen evey time.

If IL2 had this system, the game would shoot up another level.

(Sorry to banter on like this. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif)

"Official Lancaster whiner"

JZG-Pedro
05-23-2004, 01:37 PM
Jane's was tons of fun, and it still is... In the present moment, I'm scouring the stores for the game ( since Ive lost my CD2 copy ) but I just can't find it here in Brazil.

As some have already said, the immersive factor of Jane's WWII Fighters was impressive. In the campaign, every pre-flight video showing the situation in Ardennes and the text about it, with the music on the background, really got u into what happened in 1944. And not only the flying part was nice, I actually think jane's strongpoint lies in the wonderful "museum interface". The AWESOME classics of jazz music on the background that had everything to do with aviation/ combat flying / warbirds, the WWII footage, the texts, the aces' interviews, the plane's videos... A real show-game.

FB totally lacks anything like what was mentioned above, albeit the superb general FM, physics, planesets etc. Of course I prefer FB over Jane's, but it would be WAY nicer with a show-room interface.

DuxCorvan
05-23-2004, 01:48 PM
That's the thing I miss the most: mission builder. It was great.

Missions in FB are both predictable and boring.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

Ki_Rin
05-23-2004, 02:09 PM
Oh yeah, the pop up instruments were really cool, too

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Beirut
05-23-2004, 03:36 PM
JZG Pedro,

No kidding, I forgot all about that great stuff. The interactive 3D museum, the archival footage,the great music, the user made mission intro films and custom text. Janes WII Fighters was no thin sim. it really was/is a presentation as much as it was a flighhtsim.

And no game, not one, comes within a light year of having as great an opening sequence as Janes WWII Fighters. The ingame footage with the great music, the editing, the feeling it gave you to want to go out and get 'em. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif Everty time you fire the game up, that intro puts you right in the mood.

If given a choice between Il2 and Janes there would be no choice. Il2 is The Bomb. But to take the greatest features of WWII Fighters and bring them into Il2 would be fantastic. it would bring a level of outrageous fun to Il2 that is a bit lacking right now. Il2 is a technical masterpiece, but it lacks the fun-factor that Janes had.

"Official Lancaster whiner"

repoman11
05-23-2004, 03:54 PM
This time last year I still played Jane's frequently. When I bought the original IL2, I liked Jane's better, and never really played IL2.

But after FB came out, and I started playing it, I found I couldn't go back to Jane's.

Rammjager's p-51 V2 is a work of art still unequaled in FB. The reflections in the glass of the instruments in the cockpit has to be seen to be believed. But the detail of the fighter would cause too great of a hit to the framerate on many people's computers to be included in FB.

I still think it is too bad that development on Jane's didn't continue. It seems to me that it could be used as a starting point to build a sim that could rival FB. But that isn't going to happen.

A synthesis of the best of Jane's and FB would be ideal.

CHDT
05-23-2004, 04:07 PM
"Rammjager's p-51 V2 is a work of art still unequaled in FB. The reflections in the glass of the instruments in the cockpit has to be seen to be believed."

Have you screenshots? I'm interesting in seeing that!

Cheers,

TX-Bomblast
05-23-2004, 04:18 PM
Janes is way better in the Hi-Rez stuff anyway, also P-47's take can out Tiger tanks from the rear, as they should. Ever try that in FB?? In FB, bullets bounce off like ping pong balls. The stock version of WWII Fighters, is ok but to get the most out of it, one should install some of the upgraded FM's and HiRez Planes.

TX-Bomblast
Black4

Swallow601
05-23-2004, 04:28 PM
My thrupence-worth:

Just in terms of immersion, I've just played a coop with my squadron (check out Tangmere Pilots (http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/default.aspx) if you want a [vaguely] historically based flying experience - we're in the middle of the Battle of France at the moment...). I got - unforgivably - drawn down low by a pair of 109s in my poor little Hurri Mk 1. The turbulence caused my gravity-fed engine (or whatever) to cut, leaving me frantically trying to start the sod while Mr 109's wingman closed rapidly on my 6, took lumps out of my starboard wing and my section leader yelled "Break break bloody break" into my comms.

You don't need fancy AV or animated sequences or groovy bells and whistles on the briefing pages for immersion. You just need attention to detail. And squadron mates to scream at you...

Oleg's got the right priorities. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

musickna
05-23-2004, 05:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-Bomblast:
Janes is way better in the Hi-Rez stuff anyway, also P-47's take can out Tiger tanks from the rear, as they should. Ever try that in FB?? In FB, bullets bounce off like ping pong balls. The stock version of WWII Fighters, is ok but to get the most out of it, one should install some of the upgraded FM's and HiRez Planes.

TX-Bomblast
Black4<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

With all due respect, the chance of .50 cals talking out Tiger tanks from the rear is extremely slim. Bullets would probably have to richochet to strike the tank from below, hitting in the process a vulnerable access cover. Not a usual occurance. FB has this one right.

JZG-Pedro
05-23-2004, 07:37 PM
Beirut,


I can see you feel the same way I do, lets hope someday we get a sim. like this again.


Oh, btw... this extends to everybody that may help:



Would you happen to know all, or know someone that can give me the complete list of songs in Jane's???



I know all but two, and these 2 ones are the 2 coolest ones.

can anyone help me with this??

repoman11
05-23-2004, 10:02 PM
Had to install the game and jump through some hoops to get a couple of screens.


http://www.shocking.com/~z29/Rammjager.jpg

http://www.shocking.com/~z29/cockpit1.jpg

The way the reflections move as you manoever is amazing to watch

tsisqua
05-23-2004, 10:07 PM
Beautiful screens. I have version 1 of that pit, with the Jester girl's pic. I liked zooming in on her to see that the costume was painted on http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

The pic cannot show how the reflection moves around as you turn the plane. It is GEORGOUS effect!


Tsisqua

repoman11
05-23-2004, 10:14 PM
View of the wing from the cockpit.
http://www.shocking.com/~z29/wingview.jpg

AdEridanus
05-23-2004, 10:25 PM
Best part about Janes'?

No matter how low or how fast you were going, you could successfully bail out and live.

As long as you hit the bail out button, you could be 10 feet off the ground heading 300mph. My brother used to scream "oh! oh! he's gonna be OK, folks!"

TX-Bomblast
05-24-2004, 04:39 AM
You guys all always complaining about your Video Cards.Load up Janes WWII Fighters put in all the HiRez stuff,and don't forget the Tree mods. Run a very busy mission like "Bodenplate 2" and see how you rig runs....

TX-Bomblast
Black4

TX-Bomblast
05-24-2004, 04:40 AM
BTW, you'll never get wing views like that in FB.

Beirut
05-24-2004, 05:27 AM
Yep, try looking out the cockpit and the the high-rez wings on the P-47 mod. You can see every damn rivet. And you have to believe that helps the immersion when you are looking over detailed aircraft wings like that onto an air or groud target.

I flew in a 1937 Lockheed L-10A Electra once. (It was excellent!) And I remember that the wing detail was matched by the P-47's high-rez mod. It really is that good.

Can we have detail like that in IL2? And if not, why not? Aren't the skins at the same resolution if not higher?

"Official Lancaster whiner"

DuxCorvan
05-24-2004, 07:13 AM
The trouble is not the skin resolution -even so, 1024x1024 is not as much- but the way game engine renders them. If FB could render 2048x2048 skins, we the skinners would drink champagne for a whole year.

Have you notice how the IAR and I-16 skins look much better? Previously to AEP, they rendered any skin to 512x512, independently of skin texture size. Now they render 1024x1024.

But that's still far from getting that level u saw in that P-51 pic. In FB you couldn't read that marking on wing. You'd see a row of blurred red dots...

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

RobertNighthawk
05-24-2004, 07:16 AM
Hola, Pedro! Jane's music is Big Band swing music, e.g., Glen Miller, Duke Ellington, Andrews Sisters et cetera. For me, the music was the best thing about Jane's http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif and there were a lot of other things to like, too.

That said, nothing else measures up to Oleg's work.

Thanks for the patch Oleg. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Beirut
05-24-2004, 08:01 AM
Another great thing about the Janes Mission Editor: you can edit the mission on the fly.

You build your mission, enter and fly, then while flying, you decide there should be a few more flak units (for example) down there, hit a key, the game freezes and you can place the objects in 3D, then unpause and fly with the new objects included. Amazingly versatile. You can place all objects, including planes, on the fly in any mission and it takes less than seconds.

This is another feature that would be great to have in IL2.

Also, you can up the forest density by ten times, fly in high-res skins and cockpits, at 1600x1200x32 with AA and AF enabled and still get very good FPS. it may not be IL2, but it sure does look nice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

"Official Lancaster whiner"

Capt._Tenneal
05-24-2004, 08:25 AM
Fond memories of WW II Fighters for me too. Before IL-2, that was the only flight sim I ever owned (flight sims not being my regular gaming genre). Looking back now, the graphics were almost FB-like, and that was, what, several years before IL-2 came out ? Way ahead of it's time. Too bad I don't have my copy anymore.

The one thing it had against it, was the limited planeset and theater (Ardennes), unlike FB which is constantly getting "refreshed" with expansions and patches. But, now that some of you have mentioned this mod website, it might be time for me to seek out ol' Janes in Amazon.com or somewhere.

ednavar
05-24-2004, 09:33 AM
What i really liked about ww2 were the eye candies when you ditched or get downed. Impacts were a real mess, and although not always realistic they were a bit more fun than the standard fireball.

not to talk about strafing dears.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

dadada1
05-24-2004, 09:49 AM
I loaded it up on my hardrive again recently just to compare, the cockpits still look good but the exterior models and skins just don't compare with FB. Still when it was first released I remember being amazed at the care that had gone into making this sim. I still think that the Ai was some of the best if you were opposing them, dare I say better than they currently are in FB. On Ace level if you made one tiny mistake against them they would have you for lunch. The other frustrating side of the coin was (supposedly) friendly Ai that you could'nt call for help when things got really tough. If you had 3 or more enemy fighters to deal with you were just left screaming at the monitor for assistance until the enemy delivered the Coup de Grace. Meanwhile they were all off all trying to shoot the same target, only when it was downed would they come to your assistance, and sometimes that would take ages. I really remember vividly the feeling of horror screaming and sweating in a 109 cockpit, whilst I tried weaving and dodging to avoid taking fire that would so easily wound it. If you took just a light burst in the 109 it was pretty much over. Can't say there are many times when I feel like that now in FB, perhaps I'm a combat flight sim vet thats just seen too much action.

AdEridanus
05-24-2004, 10:12 AM
This topic keeps bringing up memories! Like when you took an engine hit, then it showed "running rough", and about ten seconds later your engine just fell off! Always drove me nuts when I was trying to crash land a wounded bird, then, pop! off goes my entire engine. Good times. That really was a fun game. Especially with the randomness you could generate on the editor. All of Jane's games were great in that way. Anyone ever played Fleet Command and 688(i) Hunter-Killer? Great naval games. Still in my classics collection.

johann63
05-24-2004, 10:33 AM
for all you WWII guys who want to give it a wirl again dont forget, many creative guys have put in many hours to improve and enhance the game. I am running the latest FM with many modified planes and skins, some of the planes have allot more detail. I agree that its still no AEP/FB but its fun. Although if you are running NVidia be warned, the latest drivers give you some wild effects. Now its like I am taking acid, my tracer trails are cool.

check it all out here

http://ww2fighters.org/

http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/johann-3-04-sm.gif
BlitzPig_johann

dadada1
05-24-2004, 10:37 AM
Another thing, if you were flying a 109 and did'nt have gunpods coming up against flight of P47's was really scary, I hated fights with those more than P51's. They soaked up so much damage and would still be in the fight. It was great though if you got a hit directly on the P47s engine. It would explode, flame, then smoke, when you got close you'd hear it wheezing. Many times against Thunderbolt's I'd use up all my ammo for only one victory. Also if you did get hits on an enemy fighter, and he was almost on his knees, you could hear your pilot (ie yourself) give an evil chukle as you poured on the pressure. Think I'll dust of my copy and relive those days again.

moksha
05-24-2004, 11:33 AM
It's a simple thing but I loved the after action reports/summaries.

Ki_Rin
05-24-2004, 01:42 PM
The Fms may not have been totally accurate (stalls?hahaha) but the differences between the types there were notiv\ceable...one KNEW what thier chosen mount could and could not do vs another type...unlike FB, there was a real difference in, say, dives and zoom climbs...I havent gotta the 20.1 patch yet, so maybe its different now, but before, in FB, diving in the 47 to get away from whatever other type really didnt work as well as anecdotal history says...in Janes, it was a surety..
Yet another nice feature was simply hitting a key to toggle through the guns, so one could isolate the 13mm's in the 109 or 190 to fire without the cannon, using the same jstick trigger, then swtch to all guns a slpit second later, which I like, I find that hitting jstick buton 2 for cannons, for example, makes me move my jstick ever so slightly, throwing off my aim.

SDOE ( fighter squadron; the screamin demons over europe) is an otherwise sub-par game, but with various patches,it now boasts over 100 flyable ac, plus drivable ground vehicles, plus a patch to convert everything to WWI ac...cool!
It's 1 really cool feeature, though, which Id luv to see in FB, (Im sure the makers of track IR wouldnt) is the padlock...it works just liek Janes, but it auotmatically narrows the field of view as the tgt gets closer to the crosshairs, a MOST convient tracking, and as your tgt moves away from the crosshairs, the field of view widens...the game itself kinda sucks, but just that feature would be great here...

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Ki_Rin
05-24-2004, 01:45 PM
Oh yeah, as advanced as FB supposedly is, why does the older Janes have NO TORQUE in the 38?
Made flyin that aero caddilac extra fun, watching even 109s torque stall beneath ones rock solid stable lightning......too bad Janes didnt have dual engine controls for the 38 and 262

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Teufel_Eldritch
05-24-2004, 02:12 PM
IMO Jane's WW2F surpasses FB in SOME areas. I like the cockpit panel graphics(dials, gauges, etc) in WW2F more than I do the FB cockpit panels. Also SOME of the custom models made by the community(most notably Rammjaeger's stuff) surpass anything FB has. Another thing is smoke. The smoke trails in WW2F are thick & full whereas in FB they are thin.

I really like the P-47 Skankee Yankee by Ramm & they 109 K-4 by Hammered. WW2F renders certain graphical qualities better than FB. In FB some things come off...hmmm....flat.

These pics dont show off the full beauty of the models but you will get some idea of just how beautiful they are.

Ramm's Skankee Yankee
http://ww2fighters.org/images/p47/skank.jpg

Hammerd's K-4
http://ww2fighters.org/images/109/K-4_Bernhard_final_01.jpg

I suppose a lot of the difference in graphics tho are because of the engine. FB's engine is developed more for play with a lot of ppl therefore certain graphical enhancements were set aside to ensure that the game(FB) was playable. Im sure FB could have been made so it was even more beautiful than it is now, but they prolly kept the game graphically available to the majority by keeping certain things toned down.

YANKEE ROSE
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http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Teufel_Eldritch/Avatars%20Sigs/lw2.jpg

Beirut
05-24-2004, 03:16 PM
Very true about the smoke. When you hit a tank or vehicle, it blew up, sometimes sending out a small concusion wave, and then burned and smoked away for a while. Great effect.

And what Ki-Rin said about isolating different guns; it was very cool. You could use up the small machine guns in dogfights while rolling about, a few bursts of 20mm for better shots, and save the 30mm cannons for the sure shots and bombers.

"Official Lancaster whiner"

Ki_Rin
05-24-2004, 03:41 PM
Yes, Beirut, one could also set the bombs to "train" as well, releasing one at a time...dunno if that was the case in RL, but it sure let you spead your strike power further...when only 1 500 lb will do,. will drop 2?

Even after all this time; shame on EA, they could have cornered the market with addons or a sequel...and Im not talking about that **** Janes attack squadron

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Crimea_River
05-24-2004, 04:33 PM
I think only one person has mentioned it but to me the best thing about Jane's that has not yet been matched was the realistic engine sounds. Anyone who has heard a real Merlin at an airshow can relate to the flyby view in Janes. I used to hit F9 (I think?) with the sound turned right up after a successful mission in my Mustang just to hear that sweet sound. FB isn't even close.

I agree with a lot of you above who say that the radio chatter was way better than in FB. Don't you just love it how your buddies always preface their comment with their idnification? Case in point (in German) when a guys from your unit is hit:

Voice of #3 (very calmly) "Here is number 3", and then FRANTICALLY: "****, I'VE BEEN HIT. I'VE HAD IT. I'VE GOTTA JUMP!!!!"

Teufel_Eldritch
05-24-2004, 05:25 PM
Here are some comparison pics between different games. I cant remember who took these shots. If I did I would give them the credit they are due. =( It was someone on the WW2FHQ forum did a long time ago. I did some customising to the pics tho. I combined the 109 pics & added the text.

A 109G cockpit comparison....
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Teufel_Eldritch/IL2FB/109compSM.jpg

& a FW-190 & terrain comparison...
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Teufel_Eldritch/IL2FB/fw190_comparisonSM.jpg

YANKEE ROSE
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http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Teufel_Eldritch/Avatars%20Sigs/lw2.jpg

[This message was edited by Teufel_Eldritch on Mon May 24 2004 at 11:50 PM.]

Ki_Rin
05-24-2004, 05:44 PM
Crimea, the engine sound when hyperlobby is booted up is the 109 from Janes on fly by...also a good one

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Crimea_River
05-24-2004, 06:46 PM
Crimea, the engine sound when hyperlobby is booted up is the 109 from Janes on fly by...also a good one

Yah, I know. I miss those sounds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Nazinette
05-24-2004, 08:39 PM
Yeah i got the add on disc, 4 bucks. Looking forward to trying it.

Also, I think Janes Attack Squadron should get a relook, It has an interesting feel. Anyone know of a freak who is modding for it??

Teufel_Eldritch
05-25-2004, 02:03 PM
Something I forgot to mention earlier....the prop efects in WW2F were pretty cool. Whether inside or outside your crate you could see the counter-rotation effect. In the IL2 engine all you see is a spinning blur.

YANKEE ROSE
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http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Teufel_Eldritch/Avatars%20Sigs/lw2.jpg