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View Full Version : Improvement in Melee combat?



burner1232009
08-13-2013, 03:35 AM
I've only beaten AC 1 and played very little of AC Revelations. So I was wondering has melee combat been improved? With better views of the fight and better moves and weapons?

BATISTABUS
08-13-2013, 04:20 AM
It improved drastically in ACB, ACR and AC3 are basically a copy-paste from ACB. So yes, it did improve, a lot.
Well...I don't know. ACB brought many more options during combat, but most of them just made it many times easier. For example, in ACB, as soon as you kill one enemy, as long as you time your attacks properly (which is extremely easy as there are markers that tell you when they're about to attack), you can 1-hit kill enemies infinitely. Revelations had this as well, but had an enemy archetype that could stop your combo (Janissaries). In AC3, this system only works on the most basic enemy archetypes.

There is something simple that I really like about AC1's combat. ACB&R's combat makes you feel like a badass, but ultimately dumbs-down depth to the system and in turn has a profound impact on stealth options. I'd say AC3 definitely has the best combat, though.

Sigv4rd
08-13-2013, 04:22 AM
Depends on how you define improve...

I like AC3's combat the most of the series, followed by AC1

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 04:24 AM
In AC2, the combat was essentially the same as AC1, but with different "grabbing" mechanics.

In ACB: the combat was upgraded to include kill streaks and combos. Individual enemies became much easier to kill.

ACR was exactly the same as ACB.

In AC3, the combat button placement was changed, and combat became more "offensive". You had to use different tactics for different enemies.

Combat in AC4 will be the same, except with the addition of pistol combos.

Spider_Sith9
08-13-2013, 04:25 AM
It improved drastically in ACB, ACR and AC3 are basically a copy-paste from ACB. So yes, it did improve, a lot.

Actually, only the Execution Streaks were from them. AC3 more of a copy-paste from Arkham (which people wanted yet in the end hated and claim it sucks/too easy/old system was better)

Sigv4rd
08-13-2013, 04:33 AM
In AC2, the combat was essentially the same as AC1, but with different "grabbing" mechanics.
Combat in AC4 will be the same, except with the addition of pistol combos.

AC2 actually removed a lot of AC1's combat mechanics...
We don't know how AC4 combat has changed...

straty88
08-13-2013, 04:37 AM
AC3 more of a copy-paste from Arkham (which people wanted yet in the end hated and claim it sucks/too easy/old system was better)

Really? Imo AC3 was a step in the right direction.

@OP ACBs combat is pretty much the same as AC:R. AC3 actually involves some thought. Although it's still for the most part easy, once you know how to deal with each archetype.

burner1232009
08-13-2013, 04:46 AM
Good to hear it's improved. I wonder what AC4 will be like.As Wolfmeister said now it includes pistol combos. Time will tell

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 05:27 AM
AC2 actually removed a lot of AC1's combat mechanics...
We don't know how AC4 combat has changed...

Yes we do. Ash and ubisoft have confirmed it....many times...in interviews, on twitter, and more...that combat is generally the same as AC3. K?;)

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 05:29 AM
Actually, only the Execution Streaks were from them. AC3 more of a copy-paste from Arkham (which people wanted yet in the end hated and claim it sucks/too easy/old system was better)

I don't understand why the AC combat system gets so much hate. The arkham combat is just as easy for me. Is just blocking, combos, and stuns. It just takes LONGER to disable an enemy. That doesn't make it harder.

EchoFiveKilo
08-13-2013, 08:16 AM
AC3's combat was easily the most awesome. It had:

Cool disarm animations

Fists used actual martial art moves as opposed to AC1/AC2 etc just wild swings/punches

Awesome blocks (e.g that over the shoulder sword block when someone attacks Connor from behind)

Different stances for each weapon (which also affected which block and counter Connor would use) Favourite one is sword and hidden blade (hidden blade held out in front, sword held behind)

Double counters; easily my most favourite aspect of the combat. Looks so badass and the upclose camera and camera movement makes it look awesome. The fact that they were also contextual added to the realism (e.g, to get a certain double counter, enemies have to attack you from certain angles to trigger each double counter)

Sound effects

And the absolutely perfect animations/motion capture they used for the combat. I would actually love to know who did the combat motion capture for AC3, that man needs a medal and needs to star in some movies.

The only thing that annoyed me, is that daggers shared the same animations as tomahawks.

pirate1802
08-13-2013, 08:49 AM
I think if they closed the counter window a little it'd be better. I'd say get rid of those giant triangles too but that can already be done by removing the hud elements so not a big complaint.

Jexx21
08-13-2013, 09:10 AM
Really? Imo AC3 was a step in the right direction.
.
Just ignore sith when he gets like this. He gets these moods where he's completely positive that most people hate the things he likes, or at least anything related to AC3.

From what I've seen, the people who complain about AC3 do not usually complain about the combat system, in fact, they usually say that it's a redeeming factor.

ProletariatPleb
08-13-2013, 09:17 AM
I don't understand why the AC combat system gets so much hate. The arkham combat is just as easy for me. Is just blocking, combos, and stuns. It just takes LONGER to disable an enemy. That doesn't make it harder.
Arkham is the ******* Batman fighting a bunch of thugs mostly.

AC combat is supposed to to be about a guy trained in assassination fighting other trained men who 'happen' to pose 0 challenge.


I think if they closed the counter window a little it'd be better. I'd say get rid of those giant triangles too but that can already be done by removing the hud elements so not a big complaint.
And perhaps shorter killing animations? AC3 combat anims are overly lengthy at times....

Stab with sword, stab again, stab again.

poptartz20
08-13-2013, 09:31 AM
Arkham is the ******* Batman fighting a bunch of thugs mostly.

AC combat is supposed to to be about a guy trained in assassination fighting other trained men who 'happen' to pose 0 challenge.


And perhaps shorter killing animations? AC3 combat anims are overly lengthy at times....

Stab with sword, stab again, stab again.


Soo... you're saying you liked it, even though you disliked it at the same time?

Lol. Imo AC3's combat once I got used to it was fun for me. I enjoyed it. Better than Standy and Parry to death.

ProletariatPleb
08-13-2013, 09:35 AM
Soo... you're saying you liked it, even though you disliked it at the same time?

Lol. Imo AC3's combat once I got used to it was fun for me. I enjoyed it. Better than Standy and Parry to death.
I never said I liked it. It's okayish....but it's too easy

poptartz20
08-13-2013, 09:56 AM
I never said I liked it. It's okayish....but it's too easy

Close enough! I'll take it! ;) haha.

Rickin10
08-13-2013, 10:39 AM
I don't understand why the AC combat system gets so much hate. The arkham combat is just as easy for me. Is just blocking, combos, and stuns. It just takes LONGER to disable an enemy. That doesn't make it harder.

Whilst the arkham combat is quite easy (depending on how much you want to mix things up) the beauty of it is that 1. it's totally free - you can use any move or gadget at any time during a fight 2. It's extremely fluent and responsive. Compare this to AC combat (which I do sort of enjoy) which is very restrictive in what moves and tools you can use in a particular situation. It has no dodge/evade move with the exception of when you are fighting a certain enemy, and this is just pushing the counter button for a different animation which leads to it all feeling like a glorified QTE. This is exacerbated by the double counter animations which take control out of your hands for so long you lose the flow of combat. Also it's pretty unresponsive at times.

If (as the AC3 devs said) they tried to ape the Arkham combat, they failed miserably.

Spider_Sith9
08-13-2013, 02:46 PM
Just ignore sith when he gets like this. He gets these moods where he's completely positive that most people hate the things he likes, or at least anything related to AC3.

From what I've seen, the people who complain about AC3 do not usually complain about the combat system, in fact, they usually say that it's a redeeming factor.

Hey, I'm just speaking my mind. People wanted combat inspired by Arkham yet they complain. It's beyond me.

itsamea-mario
08-13-2013, 02:48 PM
Ac's combat since ACB *Counter enemy, mash attack button, look at pile of bodies*

roostersrule2
08-13-2013, 03:18 PM
I don't mind AC's combat being mega easy.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 03:51 PM
I don't mind AC's combat being mega easy.

Me neither. I think the combat is fun, which is all that really matters to me. I have tons of other things to do regarding AC games as well, like exploring and naval combat, so it doesn't ruin the game if the combat is easy

itsamea-mario
08-13-2013, 03:56 PM
Yes, i would love it if i could just start up the game, put my contoller down, sit back and watch as the game plays itself.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 03:58 PM
Yes, i would love it if i could just start up the game, put my contoller down, sit back and watch as the game plays itself.

What do you think they could do specifically to make AC combat more challenging

itsamea-mario
08-13-2013, 03:59 PM
What do you think they could do specifically to make AC combat more challenging

Have us play as a disabled child weilding his walking stick whilst fighting the entire spartan army.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 04:01 PM
Have us play as a disabled child weilding his walking stick whilst fighting the entire spartan army.

Okay but seriously

roostersrule2
08-13-2013, 04:02 PM
Have us play as a disabled child weilding his walking stick whilst fighting the entire spartan army.I thought she said harder?

Jexx21
08-13-2013, 04:03 PM
Hey, I'm just speaking my mind. People wanted combat inspired by Arkham yet they complain. It's beyond me.
AC3's combat doesn't even feel inspired by Arkham for me, so meh.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 04:04 PM
I thought he said harder?

*she

roostersrule2
08-13-2013, 04:06 PM
*sheSorry.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 04:08 PM
Sorry.

Lol it's okay друг

luckyto
08-13-2013, 04:11 PM
It improved drastically in ACB, ACR and AC3 are basically a copy-paste from ACB. So yes, it did improve, a lot.

Brotherhood stinks. It is way too easy.

AC3 is far better. Really, AC1 is better ... IF you don't turtle.

itsamea-mario
08-13-2013, 04:15 PM
People were comparing it to arkhams fighing system, it's not like arkhams system, the only similarity is we're told they're atacking and we have a counter button, Arkham doesn't let us insta kill every enemy after the first counter, and it gives us a range of other options, such as different moves combos and tools, which becuse th enemies are at least somewhat competant we need to use, and it does all this without sacrificing the flow of combat.
In AC we have very few options really, we stand there waiting for someone to attack us so we can counter, then we devastate the group, or we atack a guy until we kill him, then devastate he group, this is occasionally broekn up by someone who can stop the combo, then the cycle begins anew. we can stun and trip but really we only have one attack, which is usually just mashed (the AC1 system of timing the attacks in order to ge a combo is gone), we have tools, but they really serve no purpose, a smoke bomb just lets us kill everyone, and projectiles and such are just ranged attacks, doing nothing interesting, just tripping or causing damage.

The system is more like sleeping dogs, exept sleepig dogs still did it better allowing us to keep a flow and use combos, when an enemy blocks it doesn't stop the combat, and we can't just mash the attack button and murder everyone.

So more challenging by removing the insta kills, but keep it interesting by adding combos and useful tools.
We are assassins not the frigging god of war, we can't expect to kill 100 guys in a fair fight, we use tricks and such where strength and skill won't help.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 04:19 PM
People were comparing it to arkhams fighing system, it's not like arkhams system, the only similarity is we're told they're atacking and we have a counter button, Arkham doesn't let us insta kill every enemy after the first counter, and it gives us a range of other options, such as different moves combos and tools, which becuse th enemies are at least somewhat competant we need to use, and it does all this without sacrificing the flow of combat.
In AC we have very few options really, we stand there waiting for someone to attack us so we can counter, then we devastate the group, or we atack a guy until we kill him, then devastate he group, this is occasionally broekn up by someone who can stop the combo, then the cycle begins anew. we can stun and trip but really we only have one attack, which is usually just mashed (the AC1 system of timing the attacks in order to ge a combo is gone), we have tools, but they really serve no purpose, a smoke bomb just lets us kill everyone, and projectiles and such are just ranged attacks, doing nothing interesting, just tripping or causing damage.

The system is more like sleeping dogs, exept sleepig dogs still did it better allowing us to keep a flow and use combos, when an enemy blocks it doesn't stop the combat, and we can't just mash the attack button and murder everyone.

So more challenging by removing the insta kills, but keep it interesting by adding combos and useful tools.
We are assassins not the frigging god of war, we can't expect to kill 100 guys in a fair fight, we use tricks and such where strength and skill won't help.

I think I have an idea to make combat more varied and challenging.

1. Make counter windows DRASTCIALLY shorter.

2. Enemies don't get killed in one counter. Would be kinda like ACR, where it would take multiple counters to kill a janissary.

3. counter counters: if an enemy counters you, then you can counter that counter.

itsamea-mario
08-13-2013, 04:26 PM
I think I have an idea to make combat more varied and challenging.

1. Make counter windows DRASTCIALLY shorter.

2. Enemies don't get killed in one counter. Would be kinda like ACR, where it would take multiple counters to kill a janissary.

3. counter counters: if an enemy counters you, then you can counter that counter.

I agree, get rid of that stupid super slowmotion bit after you block.
And counters, the way other games seem to do it e.g. Arkham and sleeping dogs(who's systems are most similar to the current AC one imo) is when you counter an attack, you deal some damage but mostly it serves to open them up for follow on attacks. In AC a counter either kills a guy, or the guy defends it, which usually stops combat, and is not fun.

I have said before, for the most part fights in AC are either really quick and easy or slow and iritating, they have yet to find the middle ground. Sure it looks flashy, but i you want flashy fights with such litle effort on ou part, go watch a movie.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 04:29 PM
I agree, get rid of that stupid super slowmotion bit after you block.
And counters, the way other games seem to do it e.g. Arkham and sleeping dogs(who's systems are most similar to the current AC one imo) is when you counter an attack, you deal some damage but mostly it serves to open them up for follow on attacks. In AC a counter either kills a guy, or the guy defends it, which usually stops combat, and is not fun.

I have said before, for the most part fights in AC are either really quick and easy or slow and iritating, they have yet to find the middle ground. Sure it looks flashy, but i you want flashy fights with such litle effort on ou part, go watch a movie.

Agreed. Yes, if counters were mostly meant for opening chances to attack, that would be very good.

pirate1802
08-13-2013, 04:33 PM
Sleeping Dogs had a really good hand to hand fighting mechanism. At one point I forgot the game even had guns.

Maybe a model for any would-be modern day AC game?

burner1232009
08-13-2013, 04:34 PM
I often found that the camera angle during a fight in AC1 interfered during the fight, and sometimes I died because I couldn't see what was going on. Annoying

itsamea-mario
08-13-2013, 04:43 PM
I often slate AC2's combat, but i found it is actually quite fun and somewhat challenging if instead of using the counter or dodge functions, use the quicksep function to avoid attacks, if done right you can avoid an attack and circle round behind your opponent and back stab them, it's actually quie satisfying.

Wolfmeister1010
08-13-2013, 04:48 PM
I often slate AC2's combat, but i found it is actually quite fun and somewhat challenging if instead of using the counter or dodge functions, use the quicksep function to avoid attacks, if done right you can avoid an attack and circle round behind your opponent and back stab them, it's actually quie satisfying.

I found the combat in AC2 to be very easy, considering that I could use the hidden blades to instant kill counter any enemy.

And also annoyed by the fact that the elites would sometimes randomly Counter you, and sometimes decide not to.

And also how you have almost limitless medicine to use in combat if your health gets low

Idk

Sushiglutton
08-13-2013, 05:15 PM
I thought AC3 had ok combat. Would rate it 6/10. It was the most enjoyable in the series for me. It seems like they have focused on improving stealth for AC4, so I'm expecting about the same, which is fine imo. The number one thig I hope they fix is adding a quickfire option for the gadgets.

Spider_Sith9
08-13-2013, 08:40 PM
Sleeping Dogs had a really good hand to hand fighting mechanism. At one point I forgot the game even had guns.

Maybe a model for any would-be modern day AC game?

Yet people will still say modern day will not work. >_>

ProletariatPleb
08-13-2013, 08:46 PM
Yet people will still say modern day will not work. >_>
It worked because guns are very hard to come by in China.... and we mostly fought street thugs, it's martial arts haven it's not about accuracy.

phoenix-force411
08-14-2013, 07:59 AM
AC1 has the best combat in my opinion. It was unpredictable and the A.I. was aggressive. ACII had the worse combat system. ACB's combat system was badass but simply too easy. ACR had a more balanced combat than ACB's. ACIII probably is second to ACII's, because it was just too stupid. It looks cool, but it gets boring really fast. I hate how I have to wait for an indicator to counter, because sometimes it doesn't show up and the enemy gets a free hit. You can't dodge and you have to be pulled into fight mode automatically.

EchoFiveKilo
08-14-2013, 11:31 PM
I liked the AC3 slow mo window when you blocked. It makes the combat look more badass.

phoenix-force411
08-15-2013, 06:18 AM
I liked the AC3 slow mo window when you blocked. It makes the combat look more badass.

The slow-mo window was annoying.

itsamea-mario
08-15-2013, 03:13 PM
The slow-mo window was annoying.

It was stupid, sometimes i didn't want to counter/disarm/throw, but i had to wait for te bloody thing to finish, so ******ed, was the game made for people who take 2 hours to make a decision?

Gi1t
08-15-2013, 05:14 PM
The slow-mo window was annoying.

I never liked slow-mo. Several of the Prince of Persia games had a chance to do slow-mo for certain moves, and really, whenever the game chose NOT to do it, I always thought it looked a lot cooler than the slowed down version.

EchoFiveKilo
08-16-2013, 02:16 PM
The slow mo is helpful and makes it look cool...if you dont want it then just hold down parry?

Ureh
08-16-2013, 03:09 PM
I think AC3 improved combat in some areas.

Farlander1991
08-17-2013, 09:24 AM
In other news, there's this tweet from Darby. (https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/368595153960701952)

pirate1802
08-17-2013, 09:29 AM
We all know the journos suck at playing games so..

Sushiglutton
08-17-2013, 10:44 AM
In other news, there's this tweet from Darby. (https://twitter.com/DarbyMcDevitt/status/368595153960701952)

6/10s incoming :p. Nah seriously sounds cool.


We all know the journos suck at playing games so..

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