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View Full Version : The most appropriate symbolism to AC III`s mission design.



Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 12:32 PM
This is a rather pointless rant, but I was replaying the Bunker Hill mission and the start where I have to follow the Patriot back to Putnam hit me....what the hell?? why the hell?? I never really noticed it till last night. there`re other routes to the one he`s taking, I CAN go on foot and and and..etc, but no...stay close to the Patriot....Why?? it`s like this nagging nanny...

"No, no...don`t let go of my hand"
"but it`s fine, I know the way"
"Ah Ah no..no, it`ll be fine"
"but-"
"KEEP HOLDING MY HAND, I SAID"

I can easily go ahead of him, No
I don`t like the horse; I want to go on foot, No
I know the way back, No
He`s slow, No

No, no, no, no, no...you`ll do as I say. now i`m not saying that EVERY mission is like that, some of them are VERY fun, but a whole chunk of them is like this Patriot escort..

Now that was the gameplay impact. This has impact on the story and characterization as well. It just gives off a subtle hint that Connor is nothing but a Patriot courier boy (adds over to the MANY OBVIOUS) who`s incapable of going back on his own to the battlefield.

I know we all talked about this several hundred times....just felt like ranting

lothario-da-be
07-23-2013, 12:36 PM
I guess why will have to learn to live with it. It kinda ruined ac3 at some moments, i hope ac4 will be differint.

itsamea-mario
07-23-2013, 12:40 PM
It would have been depressingly sweet if the patriot had kept asking you to hold his hand and never let go.

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 12:43 PM
Or probably just poor mission design cause no way the devs thought about it this deeply.

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 12:46 PM
Or probably just poor mission design cause no way the devs thought about it this deeply.
The little things are what implicate on the large ones...

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 12:47 PM
The little things are what implicate on the large ones...

Trust me, they'd brag about it if it were even remotely true, just like every other damned piece of false marketing.

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 12:50 PM
Trust me, they'd brag about it if it were even remotely true, just like every other damned piece of false marketing.
How do you know everything they`re bragging about now isn't small?? maybe it is....maybe you gullible children are eating it :|

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 12:55 PM
This is a rather pointless rant, but I was replaying the Bunker Hill mission and the start where I have to follow the Patriot back to Putnam hit me....what the hell?? why the hell?? I never really noticed it till last night. there`re other routes to the one he`s taking, I CAN go on foot and and and..etc, but no...stay close to the Patriot....Why?? it`s like this nagging nanny...

"No, no...don`t let go of my hand"
"but it`s fine, I know the way"
"Ah Ah no..no, it`ll be fine"
"but-"
"KEEP HOLDING MY HAND, I SAID"

I understand what you're saying and yes, that part was annoying. I also disliked the "Midnight Ride" >_< Why couldn't Paul Revere get his own horse!? That was so irritating.


It just gives off a subtle hint that Connor is nothing but a Patriot courier boy (adds over to the MANY OBVIOUS) who`s incapable of going back on his own to the battlefield.

I don't agree with this, though. It just made me think that they made too may restrictions. I guess, they wanted to keep us immersed in that particular part of the story. Otherwise, a lot of us might think "Oh, I don't feel like doing this right now, then I'll go and do some random things and come back later."

Also, like Frost said:


Or probably just poor mission design cause no way the devs thought about it this deeply.

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 12:59 PM
How do you know everything they`re bragging about now isn't small?? maybe it is....maybe you gullible children are eating it :|

I can't eat, I still have 5 hours to go. Even then, Darby and Ashraf can't lie, or else..... Anywho, You're blaming us of eating up everything (I'm still not hyped), when you, yourself, are trying to create some pseudo-philosophical reason for downright horrible mission design choices in exchange for forcing some 'Murica down our throats rather than actually progressing poor Connor. At least we're fed our crap. You deliberately search for crap to eat on their behalf.

Hug?

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:03 PM
I understand what you're saying and yes, that part was annoying. I also disliked the "Midnight Ride" >_< Why couldn't Paul Revere get his own horse!? That was so irritating.
The midnight ride was the second worst mission i`v ever played in AC....topped only by the Horse commander in the battle of Lexington..




I don't agree with this, though. It just made me think that they made too may restrictions. I guess, they wanted to keep us immersed in that particular part of the story. Otherwise, a lot of us might think "Oh, I don't feel like doing this right now, then I'll go and do some random things and come back later."
Maybe it was an innocent mistake on their part, but a lot of folks might have took it that way. trust me, I don`t agree with the notion that "Waaaaa Connor was a Patriot delivery boy, he suckzz", but that bit just reinforces the idea of Connor being a patriot boy, which I think is ridiculous...

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:03 PM
I can't eat, I still have 5 hours to go. Even then, Darby and Ashraf can't lie, or else..... Anywho, You're blaming us of eating up everything (I'm still not hyped), when you, yourself, are trying to create some pseudo-philosophical reason for downright horrible mission design choices in exchange for forcing some 'Murica down our throats rather than actually progressing poor Connor. At least we're fed our crap. You deliberately search for crap to eat on their behalf.

Hug?
No, you`re being oppressive...i`m reporting you

*goes to room*

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:04 PM
I know we all talked about this several hundred times....just felt like ranting

Yeah, he is just bored. So he thought he'd take it out on ACIII.

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:06 PM
Yeah, he is just bored. So he thought he'd take it out on ACIII.
I get these rants when i`m in a state of absolute spiritual transcendence....you know nothing :|

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:07 PM
I get these rants when i`m in a state of absolute spiritual transcendence....you know nothing :|

How can you presume to know what I know!?

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:08 PM
How can you presume to know what I know!?
Spiritual transcendence

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 01:09 PM
How can you presume to know what I know!?

This is thread is going to turn pseudo-philosophical far way faster than I thought.

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 01:10 PM
No, you`re being oppressive...i`m reporting you

*goes to room*

You're DENYING my oppression. Little boy, you're getting the shebsheb treatment from me.

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:11 PM
You're DENYING my oppression. Little boy, you're getting the shebsheb treatment from me.
holy crap...

but seriously, don`t you think that this bit really does give a magnified version of AC III`s mission design??

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:12 PM
Spiritual transcendence

Really? Fine. If you're so clever... enlighten me.

RinoTheBouncer
07-23-2013, 01:13 PM
I agree with you about this. It's not just here it's in all other ACs. Like it says "Target lost" but no it ain't lost, I can see it, it just doesn't have to be the way you force me to do it.

itsamea-mario
07-23-2013, 01:13 PM
I'm the rightest there ever was.

shobhit7777777
07-23-2013, 01:14 PM
Any rant on mission design is not pointless....carry on brother.

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:14 PM
Really? Fine. If you're so clever... enlighten me.
http://iambrony.jsmart.web.id/mlp/gif/133444421520.gif

There...you`re enlightened

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:15 PM
Any rant on mission design is not pointless....carry on brother.
I appreciate your money and support :|

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:17 PM
There...you`re enlightened

OMG! That is just SO ridiculous. Lol

Um... you might need to put a warning for flashing lights. :p

shobhit7777777
07-23-2013, 01:19 PM
I appreciate your money and support :|

Funny, I never gave the former and you always had the latter.....


Now shut the **** up and keep this thread alive......smartass

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:22 PM
Alright....Everyone stop being funny....serious now :|

If you could change or remove one restriction (barring the 100% Sync options) what would it be??

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:23 PM
Alright....Everyone stop being funny....serious now :|


YOU? Serious? hahaha :D

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 01:24 PM
holy crap...

but seriously, don`t you think that this bit really does give a magnified version of AC III`s mission design??

Doesn't explain why Haytham's missions were like that as well. Add to that the fact that a few missions slipped under their sleeves with a hint of player singularity, so this wasn't some sort of grand mission design choice it seems.

On a personal scale, it's a bit satisfying as justification, but there are other games that can do strict hand-holding but still abstain from being frustrating, Uncharted being one. I'd also think the mission designers don't usually refer ideals like this to affect game design. For the most part, they're both separate departments as evident by Darby now finishing writing all the story and shooting all scenes while the gameplay guys are still tweaking missions.

itsamea-mario
07-23-2013, 01:25 PM
Die thread, DIE!

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:28 PM
YOU? Serious? hahaha :D
Yes D:


Doesn't explain why Haytham's missions were like that as well. Add to that the fact that a few missions slipped under their sleeves with a hint of player singularity, so this wasn't some sort of grand mission design choice it seems.

On a personal scale, it's a bit satisfying as justification, but there are other games that can do strict hand-holding but still abstain from being frustrating, Uncharted being one. I'd also think the mission designers don't usually refer ideals like this to affect game design. For the most part, they're both separate departments as evident by Darby now finishing writing all the story and shooting all scenes while the gameplay guys are still tweaking missions.
But I didn't say it was a grand scheme, I said that it perfectly reflects the poor decisions the developers have taken....Linear games are different from Open world games, for one....just the presence of linearity in open world is annoying and frustrating..

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 01:34 PM
Yes D:

[/COLOR]
But I didn't say it was a grand scheme, I said that it perfectly reflects the poor decisions the developers have taken....Linear games are different from Open world games, for one....just the presence of linearity in open world is annoying and frustrating..

Shisa. I thought you were supporting this design choice because of some philosophical reason that while Connor claimed he was free, he was actually nothing but a free mercenary for the patriots. I get it that you hate that they displayed him as such now. What an idiotic misunderstanding on my part. Well....let's move on, I guess.

I now understand what you're alluding to, right?

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:35 PM
Yes D:

Okay. I don't get what "D:" means though :confused:

What restriction would I remove...? Um... but don't they need some restrictions? I mean, how can the developers account for every possibility?

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:37 PM
Shisa. I thought you were supporting this design choice because of some philosophical reason that while Connor claimed he was free, he was actually nothing but a free mercenary for the patriots. I get it that you hate that they displayed him as such now. What an idiotic misunderstanding on my part. Well....let's move on, I guess.

I now understand what you're alluding to, right?
Yup :D


Okay. I don't get what "D:" means though :confused:

What restriction would I remove...? Um... but don't they need some restrictions? I mean, how can the developers account for every possibility?
Of course...that`s why I said which restriction would you remove...you know, like...the one you hate the most among the many restrictions?? then we can discuss what NEEDS to be there and what does not...and that face was an expression for I swear :P

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:40 PM
Of course...that`s why I said which restriction would you remove...you know, like...the one you hate the most among the many restrictions?? then we can discuss what NEEDS to be there and what does not...and that face was an expression for I swear :P

Ok, thanks. Wait. Why are you swearing at me!?

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:42 PM
Ok, thanks. Wait. Why are you swearing at me!?
No no no it means "Yes, I swear" xD

God, these misunderstandings...

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 01:48 PM
Of course...that`s why I said which restriction would you remove...you know, like...the one you hate the most among the many restrictions?? then we can discuss what NEEDS to be there and what does not...and that face was an expression for I swear :P

Um... okay. I love ACIII of course, and yes, I can admit there are restrictions, but for me the good things outweigh the bad. Then you'll have to remind me. What are the restrictions?


No no no it means "Yes, I swear" xD

God, these misunderstandings...

Hee-hee :) It's okay. I got that when you explained the face. :p

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 01:51 PM
No no no it means "Yes, I swear" xD

God, these misunderstandings...

I think she's playing you like you played her. She's a smart girl. *Highfives Lady*

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 01:51 PM
Um... okay. I love ACIII of course, and yes, I can admit there are restrictions, but for me the good things outweigh the bad. Then you'll have to remind me. What are the restrictions?
Escape distance desync, detection desync, linear paths, escorting?

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 02:04 PM
I think she's playing you like you played her. She's a smart girl. *Highfives Lady*

Thanks Frost! :D


Escape distance desync, detection desync, linear paths, escorting?

Can I trouble you for a bit more detail...? I get detection desynch, but Connor was never part of an escort service. :p As for linear paths, how would you rectify that?

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 02:07 PM
Thanks Frost! :D



Can I trouble you for a bit more detail...? I get detection desynch, but Connor was never part of an escort service. As for linear paths, how would you rectify that?
Escort like the Patriot on the Horse at the start of the Bunker hill mission..

I would add more obvious paths with advantages and consequences....for example, you`re chasing someone..there`re 3 paths. the first is shorter, but has a group of guards. the second is longer, but has no guards and the third is a free running sequence

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 02:23 PM
Escort like the Patriot on the Horse at the start of the Bunker hill mission..

I know what you meant. :p I did find that restrictive and annoying. I guess there is a place for it though, like if it adds to the story and you're actually finding out something important. If you get my meaning. As for that particular part it was quite tiresome. -_-


I would add more obvious paths with advantages and consequences....for example, you`re chasing someone..there`re 3 paths. the first is shorter, but has a group of guards. the second is longer, but has no guards and the third is a free running sequence

More choices then. Right. That does make a lot of sense. I actually hate games that are too linear. Then I would love that actually.

If detection desynch was removed, I think that would open up a lot of possibilities too. It was annoying in ACII on the boat, and in ACIII when you have to tail people. I guess on the boat situation you would have to fight it out. It would encourage you to use stealth, and if you don't, you could still go in guns-blazing. Then hopefully, everyone would be happy. I'm not sure how you would get around it if the person you were tailing detected you. Realistically, though, you'd probably have to chase him and beat it out of them, or find another source of information, I guess. Again, the developers would need to think a lot about 'what IF this happened?' Or THAT?'

What did you mean by escape distance desynch...?

ze_topazio
07-23-2013, 02:25 PM
Maybe Connor has a very bad sense of direction, subtle character development.

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 02:27 PM
What did you mean by escape distance desynch...?
When you`re chasing someone and there`s a counter of how many steps that person is away from you, it reaches about 60 for example and desycns saying "you lost him" even though I can clearly still see him...

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 02:37 PM
When you`re chasing someone and there`s a counter of how many steps that person is away from you, it reaches about 60 for example and desycns saying "you lost him" even though I can clearly still see him...

Ok. I just never lost anyone :) If you could still see him though and still desynched, I think that was just down to bad programming. I guess it also applies when you are tailing someone I see your point. Then maybe they should get rid of that too..

Maybe this is linked to that too, and I disliked the missions when you had to comeback later. Maybe it was a glitch. For example, the liberation contracts, when you chase the guy on the horse who is chasing the person he wants to recruit. It doesn't even desynch and the guy just disappears and the contract is nowhere to be seen. Then I found that I had to do something else or go so far away and hope it would restart. That was so annoying and a waste of time.

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 02:50 PM
If you could change or remove one restriction (barring the 100% Sync options) what would it be??

Btw... M, you never said what you would change or remove from AC?

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 02:51 PM
Btw... M, you never said what you would change or remove from AC?
Escort and detected Desync.......also Quick time events for Assassinations :|

those were terrible

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 02:55 PM
Escort and detected Desync.......also Quick time events for Assassinations :|

those were terrible

I thought you said ONE. I think I'd choose desynchronization. As for linearity, if ACIV is more open, then they should be heading that way already... hopefully.

Quick time events...?

Assassin_M
07-23-2013, 02:58 PM
I thought you said ONE. I think I'd choose desynchronization. As for linearity, if ACIV is more open, then they should be heading that way already... hopefully.
Well there`s too many...alright 3 at most :|


Quick time events...?
Yeah...press square to Assassinate? Miko, Haytham, Church and Kanentokon?

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 03:02 PM
Well there`s too many...alright 3 at most :|

I suppose. Maybe you should have said: 'which 3?' :p


Yeah...press square to Assassinate? Miko, Haytham, Church and Kanentokon?

Now you're just being picky, M!

Shahkulu101
07-23-2013, 03:05 PM
The symbolism clearly alludes to the elitist bankers who have the world at their hands a pull us unwillingly in the direction of a fascist world wide government.

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 03:11 PM
Maybe it was an innocent mistake on their part, but a lot of folks might have took it that way. trust me, I don`t agree with the notion that "Waaaaa Connor was a Patriot delivery boy, he suckzz", but that bit just reinforces the idea of Connor being a patriot boy, which I think is ridiculous...

I didn't see this earlier... but yeah, that is ridiculous. And people should think these things through. >_<



Yeah...press square to Assassinate? Miko, Haytham, Church and Kanentokon?

Seriously though, I think they did that to add drama. They wanted us to hear what the characters had to say for the story.

Ureh
07-23-2013, 03:17 PM
Yeah...press square to Assassinate? Miko, Haytham, Church and Kanentokon?

Don't we already do that with everyone else?

ArabianFrost
07-23-2013, 03:44 PM
Don't we already do that with everyone else?

The difference is the we do it after actually planning for the mission and the approach then after successfully pulling off all those things successfully, you get to enjoy the satisfying fruits of your labour. A whole damn assassination based around a bunch of cutscenes then an effortless QTE is appalling.

Ureh
07-23-2013, 03:49 PM
The difference is the we do it after actually planning for the mission and the approach then after successfully pulling off all those things successfully, you get to enjoy the satisfying fruits of your labour. A whole damn assassination based around a bunch of cutscenes then an effortless QTE is appalling.

Ah I get you. I thought M was talking about the act of assassinating the targets and not the lack of planning and stealth approach. :P

ladyleonhart
07-23-2013, 03:56 PM
The difference is the we do it after actually planning for the mission and the approach then after successfully pulling off all those things successfully, you get to enjoy the satisfying fruits of your labour. A whole damn assassination based around a bunch of cutscenes then an effortless QTE is appalling.

I agree, and it is a bit childish and anticlimactic.

Jexx21
07-23-2013, 07:01 PM
While I agree that AC3 had bad mission design.. can I admit that while playing the thought never really occurred to me and didn't affect me?

When you started talking about the patriot leading you to bunker hill I was just thinking "what.. I just followed the guy and listened to what he was saying"