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View Full Version : Question about Assassin's Creed: Brahman use of temple



DonaldMcDon2013
07-20-2013, 02:51 AM
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/19/new-assassins-creed-graphic-novel-debuts-indian-assassin


I recently read an article on ign about Ubisoft's upcoming graphic novel and a picture struck me by surprise.
Based on the pics I've seen so far( the third one on ign) it appears that the Golden Temple in Amritsar is used as a palace where the "bad guys" are. If you google golden temple you can see what I'm talking about.

I understand using places that are actually in India as inspiration, but taking a very important temple and using it as a palace were the baddys are doesn't seem like a good idea. Obviously I haven't read it so I could be seeing it out of context, but I was hoping to get other peoples thoughts on it.

LoyalACFan
07-20-2013, 03:10 AM
AC doesn't usually shy away from insulting religions.

DonaldMcDon2013
07-20-2013, 03:44 AM
haha that's a very good point.

Megas_Doux
07-20-2013, 04:00 AM
Let´s see:

"Red Sea was never parted, water never turned to wine. It was not the machinations of Eris that spawned the Trojan War, but this! Illusions, all of them"

So wait for an assasisnation in there.....

Bashilir
07-20-2013, 04:05 AM
AC doesn't usually shy away from insulting religions.


But would never dare to make a game in Biblical times.

Jexx21
07-20-2013, 04:30 AM
They never actually said that...

dxsxhxcx
07-20-2013, 05:31 AM
AC is a work of fiction, it's just a game/comic, deal with it (or don't play/read it)... :)


I'm not trying to be rude but if religious people (I'm not saying the OP is one) can't see the difference between "real" (what's real for them at least) and fiction then they should only play racing and sport games because probably all the other genres left in some way go against what religion preach, specially the ones with violence involved, so if those games aren't a problem, why AC should be?

LoyalACFan
07-20-2013, 06:19 AM
But would never dare to make a game in Biblical times.

Well no, for the same reason that Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" wasn't called "Da Bible's Wrong." It would be a catastrophic failure, especially in the United States, which is pretty much their prime market. There has to be a little bit of subtlety, you can't just go around blatantly trashing Christianity without committing commercial suicide for your product.

Assassin_M
07-20-2013, 06:58 AM
Well no, for the same reason that Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" wasn't called "Da Bible's Wrong." It would be a catastrophic failure, especially in the United States, which is pretty much their prime market. There has to be a little bit of subtlety, you can't just go around blatantly trashing Christianity without committing commercial suicide for your product.
How is an AC game set during biblical times more trashing to christianity than " the greatest lie ever told" line in the codex?

Sigv4rd
07-20-2013, 07:12 AM
How is an AC game set during biblical times more trashing to christianity than " the greatest lie ever told" line in the codex?

Because the kind of people who are stupid enough to get angry about this kinda thing don't know how to read...

x___Luffy___x
07-20-2013, 08:52 AM
im from india and i know that they are portraying the Golden Temple in completely wrong way.. it is a very sacred place.

and it is not a palace and never was.

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 09:00 AM
im from india and i know that they are portraying the Golden Temple in completely wrong way.. it is a very sacred place.

and it is not a palace and never was.
Yeahhh, I would say they will probably get some backlash over it.

x___Luffy___x
07-20-2013, 09:04 AM
Yeahhh, I would say they will probably get some backlash over it.

yes they should.

Assassin_M
07-20-2013, 09:09 AM
and it starts

x___Luffy___x
07-20-2013, 09:17 AM
and it starts

M , i am not much of a religious person but im still against the way they portrayed the Golden Temple in the comic.

shobhit7777777
07-20-2013, 09:19 AM
Hitman 2 got banned for a while as it depicted murderin in the Golden Temple IIRC

I don't think this Graphic Novel would incur the same wrath..it'll likely slip under the radar.....besides we don't really know the context.

Assassin_M
07-20-2013, 09:20 AM
M , i am not much of a religious person but im still against the way they portrayed the Golden Temple in the comic.
I just said it starts, i never said anything about your views D:

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 09:21 AM
I just said it starts, i never said anything about your views D:
Oh yeah none of us know what you meant :rolleyes:

Assassin_M
07-20-2013, 09:22 AM
Oh yeah none of us know what you meant :rolleyes:
no..no you don`t, now drop it

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 09:39 AM
How are they portraying it the Golden Temple...?
To put it mildly, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star

NondairyGold
07-20-2013, 11:28 AM
Because the kind of people who are stupid enough to get angry about this kinda thing don't know how to read...

Hahaaha so true!!!

NondairyGold
07-20-2013, 11:35 AM
M , i am not much of a religious person but im still against the way they portrayed the Golden Temple in the comic.

No one knows how they portrayed it yet, jumping the shark a bit there!!! It may be a sacred site, but that doesn't mean there was never any blood spilled there.

pacmanate
07-20-2013, 11:37 AM
M , i am not much of a religious person but im still against the way they portrayed the Golden Temple in the comic.


I don't care to be honest

ze_topazio
07-20-2013, 12:20 PM
Nobody seemed to care when the bad guys lived in the Vatican's sacred buildings.

OSantaClownO
07-20-2013, 12:33 PM
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/19/new-assassins-creed-graphic-novel-debuts-indian-assassin


I recently read an article on ign about Ubisoft's upcoming graphic novel and a picture struck me by surprise.
Based on the pics I've seen so far( the third one on ign) it appears that the Golden Temple in Amritsar is used as a palace where the "bad guys" are. If you google golden temple you can see what I'm talking about.

I understand using places that are actually in India as inspiration, but taking a very important temple and using it as a palace were the baddys are doesn't seem like a good idea. Obviously I haven't read it so I could be seeing it out of context, but I was hoping to get other peoples thoughts on it.

Your argument was invalid as soon as you started to talk about "bad guys". There are no bad guys, that's probably what was so imporntant about Assasin's Creed III begining at playing Haytham. If you don't like the way your temple is being pressented - then in the same way I can say that I like the way they pressented the temple way more than your view.
Being able to understand different perspectives is something I suggest you to learn.

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 12:41 PM
Nobody seemed to care when the bad guys lived in the Vatican's sacred buildings.
Yep. Or the fact that Ezio beat the crap out of the POPE. I don't see how this is any different. It's fiction.

pacmanate
07-20-2013, 01:03 PM
Yep. Or the fact that Ezio beat the crap out of the POPE. I don't see how this is any different. It's fiction.

So much this. If you don't like it, don't read it. Your opinion isn't gonna change anything.

itsamea-mario
07-20-2013, 03:37 PM
People like you ruin it for everybody.

pacmanate
07-20-2013, 04:09 PM
This also ^

lothario-da-be
07-20-2013, 06:48 PM
Man you fist fighted the pope in ac2 and killed him in acb. I don't think much people had a problem with that. But IMO Christians take such things less serious then other religions.

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 07:01 PM
To put it in context, the whole Sikh religion is based off stuff in that Temple, it's the equivalent of a game depicting us fighting and assassinating jesus.

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 07:08 PM
To put it in context, the whole Sikh religion is based off stuff in that Temple, it's the equivalent of a game depicting us fighting and assassinating jesus.
Really? He's seemingly assassinating two British guys. It just happens to be in a building that holds religious significance.

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 07:13 PM
Really? He's seemingly assassinating two British guys. It just happens to be in a building that holds religious significance.
Their presence there itself is kinda...shady. That religion is based off a book which holds a lot of sentiment and significance, the temple houses that only. I'm no expert on the Sikh religion but as far as I know that book means everything to them, not some sort of 'god' figure.

I've personally been there btw.

x___Luffy___x
07-20-2013, 07:20 PM
Really? He's seemingly assassinating two British guys. It just happens to be in a building that holds religious significance.

it is not a building nor a palace as shown in the comic. The Golden Temple is a sacred place where the holy scripture of Sikhism is placed.

and the comic showed something like a king sitting there with the british guys depicting it as a palace where that king maybe ruled. and something like that did nt happend in history.

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 07:25 PM
it is not a building nor a palace as shown in the comic. The Golden Temple is a sacred place where the holy scripture of Sikhism is placed.

and the comic showed something like a king sitting there with the british guys depicting it as a palace where that king maybe ruled. and something like that did nt happend in history.
Well it is a building in the way every structure from a house to a skyscraper is a building.

I don't think there's enough context in the previews to talk about how it's being portrayed.

dxsxhxcx
07-20-2013, 07:32 PM
it is not a building nor a palace as shown in the comic. The Golden Temple is a sacred place where the holy scripture of Sikhism is placed.

and the comic showed something like a king sitting there with the british guys depicting it as a palace where that king maybe ruled. and something like that did nt happend in history.

the Vatican also is a holy place for christians, this didn't stopped them from going there and punch the pope in the face...

also, I believe you misunderstood that page, it seems like 3 people are meeting in the temple and talking about a queen (or princess) that isn't there, the guy in the chair probably is a templar close to this queen/princess that is trying to convince her of something (probably execute a plan that is aligned with the Templar's vision)

x___Luffy___x
07-20-2013, 07:34 PM
Their presence there itself is kinda...shady. That religion is based off a book which holds a lot of sentiment and significance, the temple houses that only. I'm no expert on the Sikh religion but as far as I know that book means everything to them, not some sort of 'god' figure.

I've personally been there btw.

you are right and you ve been there so you know they what they showed was completely wrong.

and the persons who researched about this has never been to the Golden Temple themselves.

this is taken from the the creators interview : Karl: I spent some time in Bangalore and Mumbai a few years ago and it’s informed a lot of setting in our present-day story. Unfortunately, I never made it north. I’ll have to save that for a future trip. ) and this guy should know that The Golden Temple is situated in NORTH...
http://www.ubiworkshop.com/the-workshop/assassinscreed-brahman/

and i ve been there many times. its a 6 hour drive from where i live , so i know what im talking about.

x___Luffy___x
07-20-2013, 07:46 PM
the Vatican also is a holy place for christians, this didn't stopped them from going there and punch the pope in the face...

also, I believe you misunderstood that page, it seems like 3 people are meeting in the temple and talking about a queen (or princess) that isn't there, the guy in the chair probably is a templar close to this queen/princess that is trying to convince her of something (probably execute a plan that is aligned with the Templar's vision)

as i said that The Golden Temple is a sacred place where the holy scripture of Sikhism is placed , it only houses that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmandir_Sahib

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 07:50 PM
the Vatican also is a holy place for christians, this didn't stopped them from going there and punch the pope in the face...
Let me put it like this, it is the holiest of the holy things Sikhs believe in, not some god, but that book and their gurus. So yeah, equivalent of jesus. I mean **** they killed the prime minister over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 07:55 PM
Let me put it like this, it is the holiest of the holy things Sikhs believe in, not some god, but that book and their gurus. So yeah, equivalent of jesus. I mean **** they killed the prime minister over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Blue_Star
Well the Pope is supposed to be God's representative on Earth...

Jexx21
07-20-2013, 08:00 PM
To catholics.

As a Christian I can say I don't give a **** about the pope.

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 08:01 PM
Well the Pope is supposed to be God's representative on Earth...
Except only few believe that and still believe that god is the highest power etc etc, in case of Sikhs that book is the highest power, no god exists.

I-Like-Pie45
07-20-2013, 08:07 PM
Man I feel like taking a ****** to church now

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 08:32 PM
To catholics.

As a Christian I can say I don't give a **** about the pope.
I don't know what relevance that has.


Except only few believe that and still believe that god is the highest power etc etc, in case of Sikhs that book is the highest power, no god exists.
Catholicism is the world's largest christian church it's not just a few. And I'm just saying that the two acts from AC2 and from what we've seen in the comic are quite comparable.

shobhit7777777
07-20-2013, 08:33 PM
To my desi brothers...we don't exactly know the context and it is unlikely that anything in that comic was aimed to offend. Its a graphic novel which depicted a building strikingly similar to the Golden Temple as a palace...artistic license. The temple itself is not mentioned.

What I believe happened here is that the authors of the novel were searching for Indian looking buildings with cool architecture....they found the Golden Temple and decided to re-imagine it as a palace.

I don't think this is offensive....I don't think this was intended to be offensive....I don't think we should even be discussing this without reading the graphic novel in question.

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 08:34 PM
I don't know what relevance that has.


Catholicism is the world's largest christian church it's not just a few. And I'm just saying that the two acts from AC2 and from what we've seen in the comic are quite comparable.
Thereby, completely missing the point

shobhit7777777
07-20-2013, 08:35 PM
The only thing bizzare thing I found in this thread was people using the argument - "If the Christians weren't offended, the Sikhs shouldn't be either".....dafuq?

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 08:46 PM
Thereby, completely missing the point
*sigh*

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 08:51 PM
The only thing bizzare thing I found in this thread was people using the argument - "If the Christians weren't offended, the Sikhs shouldn't be either".....dafuq?
yeah, lol.

It's like they're equating Sikhism to Abrahamic religions...
The book is god for Sikhs. You're defiling their god's essentially.

Comparing that to the pope is stupid.

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 08:55 PM
yeah, lol.

It's like they're equating Sikhism to Abrahamic religions...
The book is god for Sikhs. You're defiling their god's essentially.

Comparing that to the pope is stupid.
The book doesn't even appear in the comic!?

dxsxhxcx
07-20-2013, 08:58 PM
yeah, lol.

It's like they're equating Sikhism to Abrahamic religions...
The book is god for Sikhs. You're defiling their god's essentially.

Comparing that to the pope is stupid.

to many christians just deny their religion is the same as deny their god and is considered an offense (imagine spank their religion's major authority on earth), so both religions are in the same boat here, the point is, this game isn't aimed to people who can't put their beliefs aside and see the game/comic for what they are, a work of fiction, no matter which religion you believe, if you can't separate "real" from fiction, this game isn't for you (this isn't aimed at you btw, but to anyone who feel this way)

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 08:59 PM
The book doesn't even appear in the comic!?
That temple made of gold ONLY houses the book, nothing else.


to many christians just deny their religion is the same as deny their god and is considered an offense, so both religions are in the same boat here, the point is, this game isn't aimed to people who can put their beliefs aside and see the game/comic for what they are, a work of fiction, no matter which religion you believe, if you can't separate "real" from fiction, your place isn't here (this isn't aimed at you btw, but to anyone who feel this way)
That's...not the point here, what I mean is...if people learn of this and it turns out to be as bad as we think...well they'll be up in arms. I'm not talking about readers here.

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2013, 09:07 PM
http://i.imgur.com/0w3D3v3.jpg

ze_topazio
07-20-2013, 09:09 PM
To put it in context, the whole Sikh religion is based off stuff in that Temple, it's the equivalent of a game depicting us fighting and assassinating jesus.

I would play that game.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kl5slzN2nmY/TDva_MEt8SI/AAAAAAAAAtI/wc1krmeFXOU/s400/jesus_540.jpg

dxsxhxcx
07-20-2013, 09:17 PM
That temple made of gold ONLY houses the book, nothing else.


That's...not the point here, what I mean is...if people learn of this and it turns out to be as bad as we think...well they'll be up in arms. I'm not talking about readers here.

Christians got angry about how their religion was depicted in the game as well and no (physical) harm was done to any Ubisoft employee (from what I can remember)...

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 09:25 PM
Christians got angry about how their religion was depicted in the game as well and no (physical) harm was done to any Ubisoft employee (from what I can remember)...
Yeah well you see, the thing is pope is not god, that book for them is god in every meaning of the word, not just figuratively, literally.

Not to forget how it will seem -> some foreign dude who is probably Christian is writing a comic defiling the Sikh religion's most sacred place, the literal house of their god.

That's the worst case scenario though. Somehow I don't think that's the golden temple at all. It depends on the exact year of the comic because there used to be a palace close to the Golden Temple...which doesn't exist anymore. Depending on the timeline, it could very well be that palace.

dxsxhxcx
07-20-2013, 09:31 PM
Somehow I don't think that's the golden temple at all. It depends on the exact year of the comic because there used to be a palace close to the Golden Temple...which doesn't exist anymore. Depending on the timeline, it could very well be that palace.

in the third page (counting the cover) of the comic you can see a building that looks like a palace next to the golden temple, maybe that's the place he is..

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 09:34 PM
in the third page (counting the cover) of the comic you can see a building that looks like a palace next to the golden temple, maybe that's the place he is..
Yeah I did see that, but it has gold. I don't think that palace was made of gold...

SixKeys
07-20-2013, 10:51 PM
If the book is basically the equivalent of a god to Sikhs, would a comparable situation be if the comic was showing a drawing of Muhammed and Muslims being offended by it?

Either way, I don't give a ****.

lothario-da-be
07-20-2013, 10:56 PM
I still don't get why people get offended by such things, foreigns dudes " disrespecting" your God is their problem, not yours. Or am i too non-believer too understand something like that?

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 10:58 PM
I still don't get why people get offended by such things, foreigns dudes " disrespecting" your God is their problem, not yours. Or am i too non-believer too understand something like that?
I'm an atheist myself, doesn't mean I don't understand what that guy is trying to say.

Ureh
07-20-2013, 10:59 PM
It's not unheard of for people to disrespect the beliefs of others and try to desecrate their holy sites. The Assassins are trying to remove the Templar presence and return the Temple back to the people. Who knows? Maybe Arbaaz is a Sikh himself and has personal stake in this mission?

lothario-da-be
07-20-2013, 11:01 PM
I'm an atheist myself, doesn't mean I don't understand what that guy is trying to say.
I understand what he means, but i cant put myself in his perspective and imagine being offended by a comic. I mean we fought against the pope in ac2 i was laughing realy hard the 1ste time i saw that.

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 11:02 PM
Maybe Arbaaz is a Sikh himself and has personal stake in this mission?
Arbaaz Mir is a muslim name.

Ureh
07-20-2013, 11:08 PM
Just cause his name has Muslim influence doesn't mean he is one, right?

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 11:12 PM
Just cause his name has Muslim influence doesn't mean he is one, right?
Well he's an Assassin, they aren't religious AFAIK. But you said he could be sikh to which I was responding that it was unlikely.

ArabianFrost
07-20-2013, 11:22 PM
.......Feel free to not care, but why are some here arguing that people shouldn't feel offended about their religion being disrespected in a certain way? If something is offensive I have every damn right to complain politely. Whether or not this should be censored is another matter of it's own, but people can sure as hell express discontent as long as it doesn't hurt anyone or impose beliefs.

Ureh
07-20-2013, 11:41 PM
Well he's an Assassin, they aren't religious AFAIK. But you said he could be sikh to which I was responding that it was unlikely.

That could be true, but they're still free to practice whatever beliefs they choose. I guess the games (and some of the novels) are purposely obscure in this regard to give the Assassins a less biased overview.

ex: "Achilles wasn't a man of God, not my God at any rate. But he believed in a guiding force."
And I don't think they ever confirmed or denied if Ezio was truly religious (he gave a Cross necklace to Cristina and the novel say he might be a believer himself?).

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2013, 11:43 PM
And I don't think they ever confirmed or denied if Ezio was truly religious (he gave a Cross necklace to Cristina and the novel say he might be a believer himself?).
"My church is not of god."

SixKeys
07-20-2013, 11:45 PM
I'm not arguing people shouldn't be offended if they feel their religion is being disrespected. I'm saying they shouldn't expect other people to be offended nor try to prevent the creators of the comic from using their creative freedom. Your religious rights shouldn't infringe upon someone else's freedom of expression.

ArabianFrost
07-20-2013, 11:56 PM
I'm not arguing people shouldn't be offended if they feel their religion is being disrespected. I'm saying they shouldn't expect other people to be offended nor try to prevent the creators of the comic from using their creative freedom. Your religious rights shouldn't infringe upon someone else's freedom of expression.

As I said, people shouldn't force their beliefs on others. However, there's no harm in asking politely to have it removed. I'm not Sikh myself but if the author moved the location of this assassination to one of the 1000 other palaces, I'm sure no one would be hurt. If there are non-offensive alternatives, it's best they be used. I'm not insinuating that you disagree, but more often than not, it's an easily avoidable conundrum. They gave respect to the Native American tribes and didn't give them much game time, they should at least over that respect to other beliefs.

SixKeys
07-21-2013, 12:04 AM
As I said, people shouldn't force their beliefs on others. However, there's no harm in asking politely to have it removed. I'm not Sikh myself but if the author moved the location of this assassination to one of the 1000 other palaces, I'm sure no one would be hurt. If there are non-offensive alternatives, it's best they be used. I'm not insinuating that you disagree, but more often than not, it's an easily avoidable conundrum. They gave respect to the Native American tribes and didn't give them much game time, they should at least over that respect to other beliefs.

I disagree. The creators obviously have a story to tell and they're not doing it to expressly offend people. You're basically saying that if someone had a story to tell about the prophet Mohammed, they should refrain from telling it because it might offend some Muslims simply by existing. That would mean depriving the rest of the world of a possibly great story and would hinder the creator's freedom of expression.

Some people still believe in the Greek gods like Zeus. Do you think the creators of AC were wrong to model TWCB after Greek gods?

Ureh
07-21-2013, 12:14 AM
"My church is not of god."

He's saying that he's not a priest. Someone can still be religious and respect other religions by following the creed, I think.

ArabianFrost
07-21-2013, 12:53 AM
I disagree. The creators obviously have a story to tell and they're not doing it to expressly offend people. You're basically saying that if someone had a story to tell about the prophet Mohammed, they should refrain from telling it because it might offend some Muslims simply by existing. That would mean depriving the rest of the world of a possibly great story and would hinder the creator's freedom of expression.


Some people still believe in the Greek gods like Zeus. Do you think the creators of AC were wrong to model TWCB after Greek gods?

Fair enough. The thing is, I never said that they SHOULD remove said things because a certain group is offended, what I meant is that a certain group can issue a complaint within sensible codes of ethics and the author can contemplate whether or not he would like to remove said insulting materials. It's not so much of a hindrance of freedoms as much as it is paying respect to the people that you borrow your beliefs from. If you're going to use Sikh culture for example in the game rather construct one from the ground up, the least thing you can do is pay respect for using it and being understanding of its constraints IF you wish so. You can choose not to, but it would be appreciated if you do so and as long as they actually do it in a non-insulting context then the better. The amount of distasteful content about some certain beliefs has been quite on the rise lately, so it's quite understandable why people have been quite cautious.
As for the Zeus example, they pretty much insulted every other belief, not just Greek Gods, so this example is weak. One thing that's a bit irking though is the bigotry Ubisoft flaunted when they decided to respect the Mohawk beliefs but not the beliefs of any other group. It's hypocritical and unfair to others.

SixKeys
07-21-2013, 01:19 AM
Assassin's Creed has a particular world view due to the story it's trying to create. That world view implies that most religions all around the world are simply misinterpretations of an ancient civilization. That's the story the creators are trying to tell. They've never said that all religions ARE fake, they're building a fictional narrative in which this is most likely the case. I don't think they treated AC3 any differently in this respect. They never said Connor's religious beliefs (which we never saw much of anyway) were any more right than others' and they weren't paying special respect to native spiritual beliefs but their culture. When Connor saw spiritual visions, they were illusions created by Minerva. That's consistent with the previous games' implication that religious experiences are mostly illusions created by TWCB technology.

I-Like-Pie45
07-21-2013, 04:04 AM
All the Assassins from the games (minus Altair cuz he lived in the Middle East which makes him a Muslim) were of Jewish faith anyway

Jexx21
07-21-2013, 04:13 AM
I know you're trolling/joking/tumblring/whatever it is you do, but...

Altair: Athiest
Ezio: Christian or Athiest
Connor: Mohawk Beliefs
Aveline: raised French, probably raised Christian, maybe Athiest
Nikolai: I assume Christian
Edward: Orphan. Probably Agnostic.

Although Assassins can come from any religion..

I-Like-Pie45
07-21-2013, 04:23 AM
just look at all the bags of gold they carry on them, the way they flaunt that gold in the face of those who don't have gold. That sort of crap, it makes me
http://tillstrom.net/fredrik/humor/cartman_angry2.jpg
and that is why I became a templar

Assassin_M
07-21-2013, 05:37 AM
Lets just wait for the comic? You know, everyone here may just be misunderstanding things...Ubisoft has never done this (except with some strange lines in AC I) so why will they risk it now?? They`re not anti-religious as a team, they`re telling a story that burrows a setting, culture, religion..etc and adds a twist of fiction to it..

If the comic is disrespectful WHEN IT`S OUT or a Sikh does not particularly appreciate how this temple was shown, complain all you want....THEN, not now...there could be a huge misunderstanding now

ladyleonhart
07-21-2013, 08:09 AM
“Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.” ~ 'Assassin's Creed', Ubisoft

LoyalACFan
07-21-2013, 08:46 AM
He's saying that he's not a priest. Someone can still be religious and respect other religions by following the creed, I think.

Well, I suppose they could, but given what they had seen of the First Civilization, I'm assuming most of them were atheists or agnostics... I think Connor retained some of his beliefs because he interpreted Juno to be a spirit, which wasn't incompatible with his religion. But Altair and Ezio, after what they saw through the Apple and the Vault, would be morons if they still believed in Christianity/Islam. And given Achilles' reaction to Connor telling him of Juno, Ezio's experience was pretty well-known throughout the Order. Whether or not he passed that info onto Connor is up for debate, but I would assume not since he still references his religion after becoming an Assassin.

Assassin_M
07-21-2013, 08:53 AM
Well, I suppose they could, but given what they had seen of the First Civilization, I'm assuming most of them were atheists or agnostics... I think Connor retained some of his beliefs because he interpreted Juno to be a spirit, which wasn't incompatible with his religion. But Altair and Ezio, after what they saw through the Apple and the Vault, would be morons if they still believed in Christianity/Islam. And given Achilles' reaction to Connor telling him of Juno, Ezio's experience was pretty well-known throughout the Order. Whether or not he passed that info onto Connor is up for debate, but I would assume not since he still references his religion after becoming an Assassin.
Altair was an Atheist from the get go...

LoyalACFan
07-21-2013, 09:02 AM
Altair was an Atheist from the get go...

Even before Al Mualim told him about the Apple's power? His father was a Muslim, so I assumed he was too, at least as a child.

Assassin_M
07-21-2013, 09:05 AM
Even before Al Mualim told him about the Apple's power? His father was a Muslim, so I assumed he was too, at least as a child.
Yup, It`s apparent from his death speeches with Sibrand and Aboulnoqoud...I don`t think his father was around much to teach him about Islam...Altair probably grew up irreligious and then became an Atheist

LoyalACFan
07-21-2013, 01:21 PM
Yup, It`s apparent from his death speeches with Sibrand and Aboulnoqoud...I don`t think his father was around much to teach him about Islam...Altair probably grew up irreligious and then became an Atheist

Wait, but didn't he already know about the Apple before he did any of the assassinations in AC1? I thought Al Mualim told him about it right after he "stabbed" him.

Megas_Doux
07-21-2013, 03:37 PM
Yup, It`s apparent from his death speeches with Sibrand and Aboulnoqoud...I don`t think his father was around much to teach him about Islam...Altair probably grew up irreligious and then became an Atheist

Altair´s father died when the boy was just 11 years old. Altair also seemed pretty atheist to me when he told kadar that all the bible things were just made up "stories" during the Solomon Temple mission.

He was a non believer for most of his life.

SixKeys
07-21-2013, 07:43 PM
Wait, but didn't he already know about the Apple before he did any of the assassinations in AC1? I thought Al Mualim told him about it right after he "stabbed" him.

No, IIRC Al Mualim didn't tell Altaïr about the Apple until one of the later missions.

Jexx21
07-21-2013, 07:58 PM
The way you can interpret the first civ and religious spirits is still a wide range. I believe that most Assassins who were once religious would believe that there is some form of guiding force, I mean, Achilles did.

I for one think that in the AC universe there could still be a "God" and that it's still possible that Jesus was from God in the universe, as Al Mualim pretty much just assumes that the miracles of Jesus were illusions of PoEs.

Also, saying that Ezio would be idiots for still believing in their religions after seeing what the PoE's could do is sort of against the Assassin world view. So yea.

SixKeys
07-21-2013, 08:02 PM
Also, saying that Ezio would be idiots for still believing in their religions after seeing what the PoE's could do is sort of against the Assassin world view. So yea.

How so?

youwantfries
07-21-2013, 08:50 PM
Ah, I think I understand where the thread creator is going with this.

SIkhs are a Minority, but the religion is one that has kept quiet throughout the whole world.

This world is about Christians muslims, jews etc... but as I studied religions, I remember how Sikhs were the spiritual people, like the buddhists.
Their values and teachings were so pure and straight to the point. They are spiritual in essence, purity.

If I remember correctly, operation bluestar in 1984 was appointed by Indra gandhi who destroyed the golden temple. however the real terrorist was Indra Gandhi, the corrupt Indian government.

I can understand christianity and other religions are ok with their thing, but when it comes to sIkhs, I understand why they must convey their efforts into defending their golden temple.

You see, as Sikhs are the minority, and their culture is really, spiritual, just like buddhists, when their is lack of knowledge about the religion... (for example someone compared Islam Mohammad to sikhs,), then that is automatically, annoying.

There were true muslims, and true hindus and Buddhists within the Sikh legacy, where scriptures were written about mystical experiences, with unvierse, divine. It's like Connor's background with his tribe, they were minority..

ITs hard to explain, I'm just saying, I know what the SIkh teachings is about, its nothing like other religions, it's like Buddhism, and Spirituality, none of that, ******** other religions talk about.

As an atheist myself, I think, people need to be vary about the Golden temple, and also, other Indian religions, like Hinduism, and also the good Muslims who are no way like what the TV or other people say about them is.

Jexx21
07-21-2013, 08:51 PM
Allow others to have their own interpretation.

youwantfries
07-21-2013, 08:52 PM
For example, there are people who say 'your god' etc etc,

this should be beyond athiesism and religion.

Because India was more about spirituality and divine.

pacmanate
07-21-2013, 10:22 PM
For example, there are people who say 'your god' etc etc,

this should be beyond athiesism and religion.

Because India was more about spirituality and divine.

Yeah but dude, its fiction

youwantfries
07-21-2013, 10:35 PM
Yeah but dude, its fiction

Maybe, maybe not....

Who knows?

Same goes for Evolution too.

Assassin_M
07-21-2013, 10:40 PM
Maybe, maybe not....

Who knows?

Same goes for Evolution too.
he`s talking about the comic

lothario-da-be
07-21-2013, 10:43 PM
Maybe, maybe not....

Who knows?

Same goes for Evolution too.
Yeah true, maybe it isn't fiction... maybe assassins and templars realy exist...

pacmanate
07-21-2013, 10:43 PM
he`s talking about the comic

Or AM I?


Yes I am talking about the comic

TheHumanTowel
07-21-2013, 11:05 PM
lol yeah evolution is probably just something someone made up in a comic.

NondairyGold
07-21-2013, 11:09 PM
Maybe, maybe not....

Who knows?

Same goes for Evolution too.

Seriously dude WTF !!??!?!?!!!???

Next you'll be saying we walked with dinosaurs, and the earth is flat !!

youwantfries
07-21-2013, 11:15 PM
Oh right lol.

Sorry ahah.

pirate1802
07-22-2013, 03:08 AM
LOL! Dafuq is happening here!

Megas_Doux
07-22-2013, 03:21 AM
LOL! Dafuq is happening here!

As an indian, what is your opinion about this?

pirate1802
07-22-2013, 03:32 AM
As an indian, what is your opinion about this?

Well, obviously the temple holds great importance for the Sikhs, no question there, but an artist should have the freedom to write/show anything he wants in his work, even if its offensive to some. And we, on our part have the right to reject/trash his work if we don't like it. But censoring people before they create content is starting on a slippery slope that's dangerous. I'm sure there would have been plenty of Christians who would have been "offended" at AC1 and 2 as well. What if they had protested? The series wouldn't have been born.

Either way this point is moot because we haven't even seen what the context of the appearance of the temple is. Isn't this jumping the gun OP? :p

Ureh
07-22-2013, 03:52 PM
Also, saying that Ezio would be idiots for still believing in their religions after seeing what the PoE's could do is sort of against the Assassin world view. So yea.
How so?

Discovering aliens and artifacts doesn't approve/disprove the idea of God.

I-Like-Pie45
07-22-2013, 03:55 PM
Indians can't be Assassins anyway

lothario-da-be
07-22-2013, 04:01 PM
Indians can't be Assassins anyway
Neither can Natives, bankers and Pirates...

Assassin_M
07-22-2013, 04:10 PM
Neither can Natives, bankers and Pirates...
Bankers can, wtf you talking about?? Ezio..

lothario-da-be
07-22-2013, 04:14 PM
Bankers can, wtf you talking about?? Ezio..
Euh, he said Indians can't be assassins for an unknown reason. I answered with a wrong answer, Connor is a native, Ezio is a banker and Edward a pirate. I don't get what you don't get.

I-Like-Pie45
07-22-2013, 04:15 PM
Neither can Natives, bankers and Pirates...
What are you talking about? Natives are Indians.

lothario-da-be
07-22-2013, 04:17 PM
What are you talking about? Natives are Indians.
I thought you ment someone from India when you said Indians. Because this thread i about the new comic in India.

Assassin_M
07-22-2013, 04:17 PM
Euh, he said Indians can't be assassins for an unknown reason. I answered with a wrong answer, Connor is a native, Ezio is a banker and Edward a pirate. I don't get what you don't get.
It`s like this...Bankers can be Assassins, but Pirates, Natives, non-Ezio related thieves, mercenaries and courtesans cant..that`s the rule

I-Like-Pie45
07-22-2013, 04:21 PM
I thought you ment someone from India when you said Indians. Because this thread i about the new comic in India.

Exactly! It only serves to support the truth that Indians can't be Assassins!

Jexx21
07-22-2013, 04:22 PM
I don't know how you don't know this, but I like Pie is our resident satirist.

itsamea-mario
07-22-2013, 04:27 PM
people go on about how they showed the Vatican and throttled the pope. They could do that, they could do it because modern Christians are p*****s who won't do anything, you could have a game where Jesus was head of the Templar and he spent all day murdering people before we killed him. There'd be complaints, some people might write a blog, the westborough baptist church might picket a french man's house, it may even get a phenomenally short news story. but that's it. Millions wouldn't be up in arms.

Other religions are a little more willing to defend themselves, i don't know much about Sikh's but i bet they'd put up a bit of a fight. But could you imagine what would happen if they did something that offended muslims? Christ, there'd be riots and fires and ubisoft employees being killed in the streets....
.......Hey, Yves, make a game where we kill muhhamad in mecca please?

Assassin_M
07-22-2013, 04:32 PM
people go on about how they showed the Vatican and throttled the pope. They could do that, they could do it because modern Christians are p*****s who won't do anything, you could have a game where Jesus was head of the Templar and he spent all day murdering people before we killed him. There'd be complaints, some people might write a blog, the westborough baptist church might picket a french man's house, it may even get a phenomenally short news story. but that's it. Millions wouldn't be up in arms.

Other religions are a little more willing to defend themselves, i don't know much about Sikh's but i bet they'd put up a bit of a fight. But could you imagine what would happen if they did something that offended muslims? Christ, there'd be riots and fires and ubisoft employees being killed in the streets....
.......Hey, Yves, make a game where we kill muhhamad in mecca please?
I don`t think the Sikhs would do that...Only idiots who do that is us -_-

itsamea-mario
07-22-2013, 04:40 PM
I don`t think the Sikhs would do that...Only idiots who do that is us -_-

I don't think they would, from what little i know of the Sikh's i respect them.

And i should point out, i neither think that all Christians are weak and useless, not do i think that all Muslims are war mongering hate machines.
People are people.

SixKeys
07-22-2013, 04:44 PM
Other religions are a little more willing to defend themselves, i don't know much about Sikh's but i bet they'd put up a bit of a fight. But could you imagine what would happen if they did something that offended muslims? Christ, there'd be riots and fires and ubisoft employees being killed in the streets....

You do know Muslims share many of the same holy scriptures as Christians? Jesus is a prophet in Islam. If Muslims were going to be offended, they should already have done so when AC1 and AC2 claimed Jesus was a fake, that Moses never parted the Red Sea or that all gods are just "invisible monsters" according to Altaïr.

Assassin_M
07-22-2013, 04:44 PM
I don't think they would, from what little i know of the Sikh's i respect them.

And i should point out, i neither think that all Christians are weak and useless, not do i think that all Muslims are war mongering hate machines.
People are people.
I totally get you and i`m sure everyone else does...

itsamea-mario
07-22-2013, 04:49 PM
You do know Muslims share many of the same holy scriptures as Christians? Jesus is a prophet in Islam. If Muslims were going to be offended, they should already have done so when AC1 and AC2 claimed Jesus was a fake, that Moses never parted the Red Sea or that all gods are just "invisible monsters" according to Altaïr.

Muslims are Muslims, and Christians. and a lot of Muslims don't know all that much about their own religion, i imagine you'd find a lot of these sort amongst the crowds of people burning things and killing people.
A person raised a Muslim hears that there's a thing that apparently offends Muslims, he feels offended, he goes out, (said man is an idiot) he joins his friends, none of whom ever actually read the Qur'an, but since they call themselves Muslim they're also offended. they join up with a bigger crowd, they call out for the infidels to die and burn some ****, all the while not actually knowing why they're offended, but knowing that they should be.

Of course all this happened in some relatively poor area of the middle east where most people have a fair amount of frustration and are always looking for a way to vent. The religion had very little to do with it.

SixKeys
07-22-2013, 04:51 PM
Muslims are Muslims, and Christians. and a lot of muslims don't know all that much about their own religion, i imagine you'd find a lot of these sort amongst the crowds of people burning things and killing people.
A person raised a muslim hears that there's a thing that apparently offends muslims, he feels offended, he goes out, (said man is an idiot) he joins his friends, none of whome ever actually read the Quran, bit since they call themselves muslim they're also offended. they join up with a bigger crowd, they call out for the infadels to die and burn some ****, all the while not actually knowing why they're offended, but knowing that they should be.

Not sure what any of this has to do with the point I was making, but okay.

itsamea-mario
07-22-2013, 04:54 PM
Not sure what any of this has to do with the point I was making, but okay.

That maybe the rioting sort of Muslims should have been offended, but they weren't because they don't know much about their own religion.
because who can be bothered to learn all that, they've got other stuff to do, and jesus, these books are bloody long.

And then i went on to my theory of why people riot over this stuff, and why it always seems to happen in the same part of the world.