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View Full Version : Having trouble bringing down Fw190's on Warclouds:



El Turo
06-02-2004, 02:03 AM
When I get into firing position, they begin rolling like mad and the game/server can't keep up with the roll rate or something which causes them to flip-flop all over the place.. making targeting and obtaining a smooth gunnery solution nearly impossible outside of spray & pray.

Now.. I'm no n00b here and my gunnery/piloting is pretty good.. but what I'm looking for is some possible advice on game settings or something else that might smooth out their movements a bit?

I'm running on a 3mbit line and a solid gaming rig, but admittedly I'm not a super tech-guy.. so if there are settings or tweaks to be had that will smooth this stuff out, I'd love to get the expert's advice on this.

Unless this is just something we all have to live with and suck it up.. which is fine I suppose, but a little disappointing. Twice tonight I chased a fw190 all over the map in a P51 and used up all my ammo trying to bring their laggy/warpy/spin-o-matic planes down before they finally died/bailed.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

El Turo
06-02-2004, 02:03 AM
When I get into firing position, they begin rolling like mad and the game/server can't keep up with the roll rate or something which causes them to flip-flop all over the place.. making targeting and obtaining a smooth gunnery solution nearly impossible outside of spray & pray.

Now.. I'm no n00b here and my gunnery/piloting is pretty good.. but what I'm looking for is some possible advice on game settings or something else that might smooth out their movements a bit?

I'm running on a 3mbit line and a solid gaming rig, but admittedly I'm not a super tech-guy.. so if there are settings or tweaks to be had that will smooth this stuff out, I'd love to get the expert's advice on this.

Unless this is just something we all have to live with and suck it up.. which is fine I suppose, but a little disappointing. Twice tonight I chased a fw190 all over the map in a P51 and used up all my ammo trying to bring their laggy/warpy/spin-o-matic planes down before they finally died/bailed.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

LuftLuver
06-02-2004, 02:58 AM
Hi Turo,

As long as the IL2 series has been around, the FW190 guys have enjoyed a completely false ratio of RTBs. More than any Jug or Sturmovik driver ever dreamed of. Partly due to the longstanding simplified damage model and the rest is what you well know is the fish-flop-flick-roll.

The overdone roll rate causes havoc online and I rarely see any 190s that look natural in flight. The moment I see one it's like going up against some ******ed TIE fighter.

NOW.

From the 190 guys perspective, the overdone roll rate is really a con not a pro. It makes gunnery more difficult and the plane just feels toylike and stupid. The forward view is too low and the windscreen bars seem too thick to me. The nose comes around too slow in the 20mm models, while it comes around too fast in the 30mm models.

The point of this?

The 190 is a mess and the FM/DM should be redone. Probably too late for this series. If they were to fix it right, here would be my list:

1 - Reduce roll rate to a realistic number, and induce redouts for constant pinwheel rolling. The plane should lose altitude and the pilot should go red after about 2 or 3 rolls.

2 - Make the 20mm models less nose heavy

3 - Bring the damage model into reality


The truth is, with these fixes the 190s may actually start being able to dogfight, rather than simply blow ppl off their buddy's six. Their kills would go up, I'm sure. They would also go down more and their kill/death ratio would be more reaistic.

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
"All your bases are belong to us."

XyZspineZyX
06-02-2004, 03:03 AM
Try knocking the sound acceleration (if running at ful at the moment) down a notch in dxdiag.
I use one of the first Audigy (SB00090) that came out and doing this seemed to smooth out what u have described above.
It won't stop the Xplanes but if the host is using a less than adequate machine or there are more players in the game than that same host's machine can handle...there is no hope (I think)

Might help/ might not

Jumoschwanz
06-02-2004, 08:20 AM
The 190 pilots use thier planes strength to get away. I have been on many a 190's tail and watched them beat themselves to death flipping and rolling around. The graphics seemed fine. That said, I am too lazy anymore to pursue shooting someone that puts that much energy into escaping. I usually just slow down, hang back and let them go at it. Here and there I will get and take a pot shot and pick away at them. My only alternative would be to look for a different type plane to shoot at right?

I am on 56k. I have a competent cpu and video card. If I am ok on 56k with the 190 graphics anyone should unless thier rig is set up badly or is low spec.

I know the server itself can be a cause of low frame rates and laggy, freezing graphics. But if it is the same prob all the time it is probably something that is specific to your isp, or your computer that will not be a general problem all are having. I never noticed the quality of my graphics being dependent on any plane type I was pursuing. There are so many planes in FB now that if there was a bug like this it would show up on more than just one plane. Sounds like the 190 has nothing to do with your problem to me. Hope this helps eliminate or clarify something .S!

Jumoschwanz

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-02-2004, 08:58 AM
Ahhhh...the old FW flop. There are times I think it's ghey, but it irks me just enough to continue the chase and try for the pk. I've done it before myself as I'm a lame FW pilot and need every maneuver I can to stay alive.

It's usually only seen/done when the FW jockey gets caught below optimum altitude or alone and can't really do anything else so I don't necessarily begrudge them doing it. I'd really rather see the FM AND DM redone as well, but as stated earlier, that's likely not going to happen.

TB



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

tfu_iain1
06-02-2004, 08:59 AM
lol, i get shot down all the time in warclouds flying fw 190s, look out for me if you want a kill!

i tend to use scissors to get people off my tail in the 190 tho... its amazing how many people dont get it when you do it... very satisfying to watch someone overshoot, settle your plane and blow them to pieces. also, its about the only thing you can do on the more arcadey servers where there is no element of surprise, or visibility issues.

El Turo
06-02-2004, 09:58 AM
Jumo,

I really don't think you're understanding what's going on or being described here (whereas everyone else seems to?)

T-bolt,

That's exactly when I usually see it.. and both times last night occurred when I caught the Fw190's on the deck after coming down on them with some extra smash.


So, it sounds like this is just something that is more or less just part of the game, for better or worse then, bummer. I agree on the red-out idea though, as there's just no way you could sit there on a centrifuge like that and not have your head fill with blood.

I have an Audigy2 card and will try the sound acceleration idea to see if it helps out any but it sounds like this has been a relatively long standing unsolvable issue.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Hrannar
06-02-2004, 11:24 AM
Maybe he was trying this dirty little trick:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=209102093

http://www.simnet.is/neindecker/misc/tonyjonsson.jpg

jenikovtaw
06-02-2004, 11:53 AM
I'm not familiar with those flipflop business, but try flying a 190, and fighting a spit, have fun, its impossible without really violent scissors.

The lag on warclouds is quite large lately, I think they should reduce amount of people to maybe 18.

Every time someone spawns up or "cheating has been detected" message pops in, the game literally stops, and that ruins the experience.

I dont know if 190s are overmodelled, but after the oh-so-great patch, they are easier to shoot down, just like all other plances, due to damage modelling, i'd guess.

So, deal with it, if you cant outmaneuver a 190, well...its interesting.

http://www.theartofwarfare.net/ftp/graphics/sigs/EXT-jenikovtaw.jpg

El Turo
06-02-2004, 12:08 PM
It has nothing to do with out-manuevering.. did you bother to read my post?


It has to do with an aparent inability for the game engine to keep up with the roll rate of the fw190. Even while the rest of the game continues along smoothly as glass, the fw190 in front of you looks like it is warping and lagging as it spins.. so you can't quite get a firm handle on where its lift vector really is.

The wingline may go from 9/3 oclock to 12/6 to 10/4 and back to 12/6 in subsequent frames as the server/game fails to keep up with the spinning.

I was hoping for some way to increase the smoothness and performance of the netcode so that they were a bit easier to get a bead on. As it stands, the warp-rolling is really cheesy and frustrating. (Yes, I understand that it is largely no fault of the pilots, before you get going on a rant..)

I'll try the sound acceleration thing tonight and see if it helps any, but by the sounds of things, it isn't going to do much good anyhow.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

JG52Uther
06-02-2004, 12:23 PM
I fly the 190 a lot,in full real servers (and get shot down a lot lol)and have got to admit that i have never seen this warping of other 190's.if i am doing it,it is certainly not intentional,although i do try to maneuver quite violently when i get jumped low down.there is not a lot else you can do really.if the pings are good there should not be a problem.

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-02-2004, 01:22 PM
H_Butcher (Turo) has a good understanding of what's going on and I really don't think there's much one can do to fix it.

Also, just for clarification for some of the others this isn't really a violent scissors. It's more of a violent rolling with the occassional slip (rudder kick) that the game just can't keep up with so it appears to be warping/lagging a bit. Once you've seen it, you won't forget it.

I remember when I used to say...ok, wait a minute and he'll stop 'cause that looks like it hurts...only to have him continue all the way to his base perimeter! The bad part though was the fact it didn't seem to affect his performance negatively in any way...pfft!



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

El Turo
06-02-2004, 01:49 PM
cc that T-bolt..

I mainly wanted to know if there was some kind of inside-scoop on settings to help smooth that out, but it looks like that this is just something unfixable for IL2FB's engine.

Not the end of the world, just mildly annoying more than anything.

!S

Thanks for the info.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

LuftLuver
06-03-2004, 12:57 AM
Yep, that's just kind of the way it is. And jenikovtaw, read the posts carefully and completely. We're just comparing notes on what we see and how to overcome it.

Personally, I've found that a nice bank of 6 or 8 x .50cals stops quite a bit of this sillyness. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
"All your bases are belong to us."