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TheDanteEX
07-15-2013, 12:54 AM
Okay, I have to ask this question because, well, we have a pirate game: will any NPCs be able to swim? Honestly, I'm sure the answer is no. It's likely something that's difficult to program (like vertical climbing) and I don't know any games with NPCs being able to swim. The thing that bothers me is your crew has been said to raid forts with you and is said to always be with you. This can only mean that either the Jackdaw has to be parked close enough for these crew members to be able to reach land effectively, there will be a lot of shallow water, they will just teleport to Edward's location similar to the Assassin recruits, or raiding forts is triggered by a cutscene, though still seamless hopefully. The Jackdaw will be docked at major cities so I assume that's how his crew will be easily accessible.

What do you think? I'm a little surprised this thread hadn't been made before.

Kagurra
07-15-2013, 01:06 AM
Of course they can swim. There are side objectives for saving drowning people, so they're not avoiding putting NPCs in the water. And besides, in all the other AC games, the guards could freerun and climb. (poorly) But still. Living in the Caribbean and not knowing how to swim is silly, it won't be like older games where you can kill people by bumping them into 5 feet of water. Even if the guards can't swim, which I doubt, your PIRATE crew certainly will.

So all in all, yes, swimming NPCs... I'm sure of it.

Cornik22
07-15-2013, 01:24 AM
Okay, I have to ask this question because, well, we have a pirate game: will any NPCs be able to swim?

I`m not really sure about this. In fact, for some reason in most of the sandbox games npc's can't swim. In GTA IV they could, though


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUYJtCE6_tc


Of course they can swim. There are side objectives for saving drowning people, so they're not avoiding putting NPCs in the water. And besides, in all the other AC games, the guards could freerun and climb. (poorly) But still. Living in the Caribbean and not knowing how to swim is silly, it won't be like older games where you can kill people by bumping them into 5 feet of water. Even if the guards can't swim, which I doubt, your PIRATE crew certainly will.

I wouldn't be so sure because a) no official source said they can b) we haven't seen any proof that they can c) you are supposed to save the drowning members of your crew, not your crew. As you can see in the gameplay video, when the Jackdaw goes away from the drowning sailor he just dies (his icon disappears) d) ironically, it would be historically accurate if they couldn't. Sailors at that time didn't know how to swim and never wanted to learn. Why? Because if their ship sunk in the middle of the ocean they would die quickly, instead of agonizing for hours floating before meeting their demise.

Wolfmeister1010
07-15-2013, 02:54 AM
Never before has an AC game taken place with such an emphasis on water in the world and in the gameplay. Thus, never before has the dev had to think much about the realism of swimming guards and npcs. However, knowing that Ash is a reasonable man, and that he is shaping up to be one of the best creative directors of AC in a while, and knowing that he is trying to make combat much more difficult and guards more challenging, I am sure he will make the right and realistic decision to program enemies and npcs to swim.

However, it is always just maybes until we know for sure when the game is released. Nevertheless, Dante, this is a good thread and it is definitely worth thinking about, given the setting of the game. :)

monster_rambo
07-15-2013, 04:31 AM
Of course they can swim. There are side objectives for saving drowning people, so they're not avoiding putting NPCs in the water. And besides, in all the other AC games, the guards could freerun and climb. (poorly) But still. Living in the Caribbean and not knowing how to swim is silly, it won't be like older games where you can kill people by bumping them into 5 feet of water. Even if the guards can't swim, which I doubt, your PIRATE crew certainly will.

So all in all, yes, swimming NPCs... I'm sure of it.

Source?

And no, please don't add swimming NPCs. It would be too difficult for the casuals for the already "difficult" game.

Black_Widow9
07-15-2013, 05:15 AM
Source?

And no, please don't add swimming NPCs. It would be too difficult for the casuals for the already "difficult" game.
Those kinds of insults are not necessary or wanted.

Wolfmeister1010
07-15-2013, 05:17 AM
Source?

And no, please don't add swimming NPCs. It would be too difficult for the casuals for the already "difficult" game.

Why are you always in such a bad mood :(

AC2_alex
07-15-2013, 05:25 AM
Why are you always in such a bad mood :(

Some people enjoy being angry, I guess.

Personally, I really don't care whether or not npc's can swim. Its never really bothered me how pushing an npc into the water equals insta-death :|

Black_Widow9
07-15-2013, 05:37 AM
Why are you always in such a bad mood :(
I'm actually not usually in a bad mood. I don't think insulting or trying to insult people is funny at all.

Ureh
07-15-2013, 05:48 AM
Personally, I really don't care whether or not npc's can swim. Its never really bothered me how pushing an npc into the water equals insta-death :|

Indeed, sometimes the death-upon-touching-the-water is really funny.

Still, you can't blame the guards for doing their job when they decide to get all their clothes wet just to "investigate" you. That could make stealth more difficult... which wouldn't be so bad. :O

x___Luffy___x
07-15-2013, 06:07 AM
i think in AC:BF the NPC's should be able to swim , some if not all of them should know how to swim. they are sailors sailing in the sea. and if they fall into water and instantly drown and die it would be just stupid.

monster_rambo
07-15-2013, 06:08 AM
Those kinds of insults are not necessary or wanted.

It was simply sarcasm. And I was simply asking for a source for his information. I find it laughable that you find anything that was insulting and I'm not the only one that used the words casuals around here but it seems like you like to pick on me today. But I'm not in anyway angry in fact, I am quite entertained.

Wolfmeister1010
07-15-2013, 06:09 AM
I'm actually not usually in a bad mood. I don't think insulting or trying to insult people is funny at all.

Oh crap no I wasn't talking to you oh master widow sovereign of the forum. I was talking to Rambo :p. he always seems annoyed

Kagurra
07-15-2013, 06:20 AM
It was simply sarcasm. And I was simply asking for a source for his information. I find it laughable that you find anything that was insulting and I'm not the only one that used the words casuals around here but it seems like you like to pick on me today. But I'm not in anyway angry in fact, I am quite entertained.

You do always seem to be in a bad mood... I don't have a specific source, I just have logic. And I'm not a "he" either.

This game has a large emphasis on water. Guards in previous games could FREERUN to chase you, which is unrealistic as not many people can do these things besides the thieves/assassins compared to not knowing how to swim. If guards could climb buildings without ladders in the older games, they will be able to swim in this game. It just makes sense. I'm sorry you don't see that.

monster_rambo
07-15-2013, 06:26 AM
You do always seem to be in a bad mood... I don't have a specific source, I just have logic. And I'm not a "he" either.

This game has a large emphasis on water. Guards in previous games could FREERUN to chase you, which is unrealistic as not many people can do these things besides the thieves/assassins compared to not knowing how to swim. If guards could climb buildings without ladders in the older games, they will be able to swim in this game. It just makes sense. I'm sorry you don't see that.

I'm sorry that you cannot detect sarcasm or what I was getting at. I was simply commenting how easy the game has become by making a sarcastic comment saying "please don't add swimming NPCs" in the game. I love how everyone here just jumps the gun and likes to assume things without actually reading into anything. And it is a fact that the game is catered more towards casuals than core gamers nowadays. That is a fact. Nothing insulting there.

monster_rambo
07-15-2013, 06:27 AM
You do always seem to be in a bad mood... I don't have a specific source, I just have logic. And I'm not a "he" either.

This game has a large emphasis on water. Guards in previous games could FREERUN to chase you, which is unrealistic as not many people can do these things besides the thieves/assassins compared to not knowing how to swim. If guards could climb buildings without ladders in the older games, they will be able to swim in this game. It just makes sense. I'm sorry you don't see that.

Oh I am really "sorry" that I address you as a "he". Apparently, you are suppose to be able to tell the gender of the posters on the internet by their avatar nowadays. Yeah, sorry I am new here.

Kagurra
07-15-2013, 06:30 AM
Oh I am really "sorry" that I address you as a "he". Apparently, you are suppose to be able to tell the gender of the posters on the internet by their avatar nowadays. Yeah, sorry I am new here.

Geez sarcasm... I'd rather have a civilized discussion about the topic at hand.

Black_Widow9
07-15-2013, 06:36 AM
Can we please just get back to the Topic.
Thanks

TheDanteEX
07-15-2013, 07:03 AM
It feels like every thread ends up becoming an argument half-way through.


And besides, in all the other AC games, the guards could freerun and climb. (poorly) But still.

What I meant was when free-running vertically, if the ledge NPCs were grabbing onto didn't lead to a surface, they couldn't climb it. I think this is more of a gameplay reason though because I think I've seen Haytham, when he's working with Connor, climb up about two ledges before landing on a flat surface during the mission where you follow him through New York. This could just be because he's on a scripted path.


The problem with civilians swimming would be the path-finding, I'd imagine. What if they were pushed into water where the ledge wasn't reachable from that area? Would they be intelligent enough to go find the nearest lifting point? It's even more complicated with Anvilnext's uneven surfaces and such. I'm sure programming NPCs to do these complex features has become even more difficult than it would have been before.

ProletariatPleb
07-15-2013, 07:56 AM
I doubt all of them will swim, which is stupid...oh look this guy is a sailor, let's throw him overboard and he'll die.

But if they can swim, well and good.

monster_rambo
07-15-2013, 08:26 AM
I doubt all of them will swim, which is stupid...oh look this guy is a sailor, let's throw him overboard and he'll die.

But if they can swim, well and good.

The real question is, so what? Have we seen combat in water so far? How is the combat going to be like while fighting guards in water? This is what I find troubling and can't see how they are going to implement that. With or without it, is not going to make a difference.

ProletariatPleb
07-15-2013, 08:31 AM
The real question is, so what? Have we seen combat in water so far? How is the combat going to be like while fighting guards in water? This is what I find troubling and can't see how they are going to implement that. With or without it, is not going to make a difference.
"Guards?" Idk about guards but seeing as we can board almost every ship, it would be pretty stupid if we can kill sailors by thrown them overboard, seeing as normally if that happened they would climb back up and join in the fight.

monster_rambo
07-15-2013, 08:40 AM
"Guards?" Idk about guards but seeing as we can board almost every ship, it would be pretty stupid if we can kill sailors by thrown them overboard, seeing as normally if that happened they would climb back up and join in the fight.

Yeah, I guess I meant sailors/pirates. It'll be funny that you are both in water. I want to see how that works out. Maybe a shark attack or two might be entertaining.

Lass4r
07-15-2013, 12:41 PM
Actually, historically, most pirates didn't know how to swim at all.

Cornik22
07-15-2013, 01:29 PM
Actually, historically, most pirates didn't know how to swim at all.
That's what I said, but they've been ignoring my post :(

Bastiaen
07-15-2013, 04:49 PM
Ironically, historically many sailors couldn't swim. Swimming was not a very common skill.
Sorry for ignoring several posts to the same.

monster_rambo
07-16-2013, 02:52 AM
I think is also historically inaccurate to say people knew parkour or there are ancient aliens but for gameplay sake, who cares.

TheDanteEX
07-17-2013, 04:37 PM
By the way guys I messaged Ashraf Ismail on twitter and he confirmed that NPC's will be able to swim. Don't know how to add the picture though.....

http://i.imgur.com/C2GCaUK.png

Courtesy of KrYpToNiC95. Thank you!

x___Luffy___x
07-17-2013, 05:51 PM
^^ well this is good news.

now if someone could ask them about holsters...

ACfan443
07-17-2013, 10:16 PM
Swimming NPCs sounds cool.

ctuagent15
07-18-2013, 12:34 AM
^^ well this is good news.

now if someone could ask them about holsters...

I've tweeted Ash asking about this, i'll be surprised if he replays and I'm sure I'm not the only one thats asked him about this

Ureh
07-18-2013, 03:39 AM
Interesting, that means there'll be water combat?