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View Full Version : How would you feel about a non-violent AC game?



Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:01 PM
Not all assassins work in the field. Some are historians and technicians as demonstrated by Shaun and Rebecca. In AC3 there was a greater emphasis on other gameplay elements than the action ones, like trading for example. Many gamers felt the game tried to do too much and asked for a stronger focus on the core pillars. But what if the devs instead focused on the non-violent aspects and simply removed combat+stealth?

I'm thinking a historical third-person game in which you explore, trade, craft and build. A tiny bit like SimCity, but played in third person and with AC's trademarked parkour city exploration. You can interact with different characters in the game, some known historical figures (as customary in AC). You help some of these people with errands/tasks, or try to outmaneuver them. You make deals and participate in the political decission making, the things that truly shape history. One goal could for example be to strengthen the economical power of the brotherhood, or to strengthen its influence over the authorities. Platforming and puzzles could still play apart as a way to discover ancient secrets and find valuable collectibles.


I think a non-violent AC game could be something truly unique and give a very different perspective on history. It would mean a break from the yearly formula, but at the same time keep the core aspect (detailed, fully explorable, historical worlds and a focus on story/characters). What do you guys and gals think?

Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:03 PM
nice post.

Does that mean you would like it :)?

LoyalACFan
07-06-2013, 07:08 PM
as·sas·sin noun \ə-ˈsa-sən\

Definition of ASSASSIN

1: capitalized : a member of a Shia Muslim sect who at the time of the Crusades was sent out on a suicidal mission to murder prominent enemies
2: a person who commits murder; especially : one who murders a politically important person either for hire or from fanatical motives

:rolleyes:

AC3 already caught a ton of flak for barely having any assassinations, but **** it, let's get rid of them all.

Salesman's Creed. I like it.

Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:13 PM
:rolleyes:

AC3 already caught a ton of flak for barely having any assassinations, but **** it, let's get rid of them all.

Salesman's Creed. I like it.

Hang on a sec that definition os for real world assassins, no? But Shaun is an assassin and I don't think he has killed anyone (nor is he a Shia Muslim). In such a large organization someone has to take care of the finances, perhaps in a game set in the prime of the East-India Company.

ArabianFrost
07-06-2013, 07:15 PM
I know you're joking (that's new from you sushi), but there's "Civ" if any of you guys want something similar. This just sounds like Civ without the 3rd person gameplay and a linear path.

LoyalACFan
07-06-2013, 07:17 PM
Hang on a sec that definition os for real world assassins, no? But Shaun is an assassin and I don't think he has killed anyone (nor is he a Shia Muslim). In such a large organization someone has to take care of the finances, perhaps in a game set in the prime of the East-India Company.

He actually has killed people, he and Rebecca both. He says so in the optional AC2 conversations.

But no... if such a game ever happens, count me out. Forever. You may be interested in the upcoming AC: Utopia though. It's not completely nonviolent, but it looks to place a greater emphasis on trading, building communities and such.

Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:21 PM
I know you're joking (that's new from you sushi), but there's "Civ" if any of you guys want something similar. This just sounds like Civ without the 3rd person gameplay and a linear path.

I'm actually not joking, but I'm not sure I want it either. I just wanted to make a few threads questioning fundamental aspects of the franchise and see what people thought about it. Sometimes people complain about franchise fatigue, but at the same time insta-hate on any kind of fundamental change (I don't mean Loyal, who has been very consistent with what he wants btw :) ). I just thought maybe we could discuss some potential fundamental changes.

I like playing monopoly type board games and I have nothing against finance type video-games. A third-person one could be something unique maybe? And like I said many of the most important aspects of AC could still remain (historical explorable world, story, Assassin's vs Templars, participating in important (non-violent) historical events etc).


He actually has killed people, he and Rebecca both. He says so in the optional AC2 conversations.

But no... if such a game ever happens, count me out. Forever. You may be interested in the upcoming AC: Utopia though. It's not completely nonviolent, but it looks to place a greater emphasis on trading, building communities and such.

Ok I believe you, I'm no AC-scholar :p.

SixKeys
07-06-2013, 07:25 PM
My mom likes watching me play AC only for the historical aspects, not so much the killing. :p Personally, I don't see how an assassin game would work without any assassinating.

LoyalACFan
07-06-2013, 07:26 PM
I'm actually not joking, but I'm not sure I want it either. I just wanted to make a few threads questioning fundamental aspects of the franchise and see what people think about it. I like playing monopoly type board games and I have nothing against finance type video-games. A third-person one could be something unique maybe? And like I said many of the most important aspects of AC could still remain (historical explorable world, story, Assassin's vs Templars, participating in important (non-violent) historical events etc).

Sorry... no. I have no problem with nonviolent games when I'm playing Monopoly or Gran Turismo, but if I'm playing ASSASSIN's Creed, I want to kill mother****ers. Frequently. Maybe that sounds bad, but whatever. An Assassin's Creed game without assassinations would be like a Grand Theft Auto game where you can't steal cars.

Jexx21
07-06-2013, 07:26 PM
I could get on board with this. I personally have always thought that there need to be more games that don't feature violence, especially since I'm pretty much a pacifist.

Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:29 PM
My mom likes watching me play AC only for the historical aspects, not so much the killing. :p Personally, I don't see how an assassin game would work without any assassinating.

Haha AC is a real mom-pleaser :)! It would be a real different game, that's for sure. Like I said I think the natural focus would be economy and /or political power. A mixture of story driven missions, perhaps with Mass Effect like choices, and a sandbox economy game with a much more developed version of crafting, trading, building, recruting like in AC3.

AC2_alex
07-06-2013, 07:31 PM
So what would the actual gameplay be? Just free running? Its a neat idea but just from a mere marketing standpoint, you can't put "ASSASSIN'S CREED" on a box without having any of the combat, stealth, and action of the other games. A spin off like this would make much more sense on the 3DS or Vita... or even iOS.

But this is just me talking realistically.

The fan in me would love to see this happen, fully realized on the consoles. A more laid back and subtle story set within the ACverse would be really cool, and as you said, Sushi, would be a great break from the formula.

Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:34 PM
Sorry... no. I have no problem with nonviolent games when I'm playing Monopoly or Gran Turismo, but if I'm playing ASSASSIN's Creed, I want to kill mother****ers. Frequently. Maybe that sounds bad, but whatever. An Assassin's Creed game without assassinations would be like a Grand Theft Auto game where you can't steal cars.

But "Assassin" is the name of the order, it doesn't mean the same in this context. Like I said I believe its members have had different roles (even though I failed to name someone who hasn't killed lol). But what does it really matter what the game is called anyway? AC is pretty much the only franchise doing third person historical drama. Why not try something radically different and at the same time explore a very different typ of story and set of characters?

Jexx21
07-06-2013, 07:36 PM
As far as I know, before she was killed, Hannah (Daniel Cross's almost-girlfriend) never killed anyone.

SixKeys
07-06-2013, 07:42 PM
I don't think a non-violent game would work as a proper console title. If it ever were to happen, it could be a Facebook or smartphone game similar to Project Legacy. They were trying to develop something similar to what you're suggesting, which was to be AC: Utopia (seems to have been a mix between AC, the Sims and Civilization) but the project has been put on hold. Maybe they tested it and people didn't like it, or they felt like it didn't have enough potential to be profitable.

IMO the trading, crafting and all that side stuff works better as background filler for the console games, not as the main focus. Sure, it'd make the game more pleasant for my mom to walk around in without all the violence, but Assassin's Creed is based on three pillars: combat, stealth and navigation. Without combat, there's no need for stealth. Without enemies, there's no point to navigation aka finding alternative routes. If there are no consequences for your actions, the parkour (making yourself obvious) quickly gets boring.

If all your missions are about trading and politics, what would be the point of building a massive world with realistic NPCs wandering the streets? Games like Civilization have a more simplistic design for cost-effective reasons.

TheHumanTowel
07-06-2013, 07:43 PM
I wouldn't like it at all. This series needs to bring back focus on proper assassinations not venture off into Assassin civil servant territory.

Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:45 PM
So what would the actual gameplay be? Just free running? Its a neat idea but just from a mere marketing standpoint, you can't put "ASSASSIN'S CREED" on a box without having any of the combat, stealth, and action of the other games. A spin off like this would make much more sense on the 3DS or Vita... or even iOS.

But this is just me talking realistically.

The fan in me would love to see this happen, fully realized on the consoles. A more laid back and subtle story set within the ACverse would be really cool, and as you said, Sushi, would be a great break from the formula.

Yeah I think city-navigation should remain as it lets you explore the cities in full. But you are right there needs to be some more activities, haven't really thought about it that far lol. I mean different forms of transportation I guess, like ships, horses (horse racing, betting?) etc. Maybe one could have a farm and do a bunch of chores. Fishing, hunting (I guess that can be a bit violent)? And like I said in-game choices like in Mass Effect. Exploration to find rare merchandises (perhaps seeds for rare crops). Some puzzles, prehaps a bit of detective work? Maybe building. Would be pretty cool to build some structures that you could then platform on.


I don't think a non-violent game would work as a proper console title. If it ever were to happen, it could be a Facebook or smartphone game similar to Project Legacy. They were trying to develop something similar to what you're suggesting, which was to be AC: Utopia (seems to have been a mix between AC, the Sims and Civilization) but the project has been put on hold. Maybe they tested it and people didn't like it, or they felt like it didn't have enough potential to be profitable.

IMO the trading, crafting and all that side stuff works better as background filler for the console games, not as the main focus. Sure, it'd make the game more pleasant for my mom to walk around in without all the violence, but Assassin's Creed is based on three pillars: combat, stealth and navigation. Without combat, there's no need for stealth. Without enemies, there's no point to navigation aka finding alternative routes. If there are no consequences for your actions, the parkour (making yourself obvious) quickly gets boring.

If all your missions are about trading and politics, what would be the point of building a massive world with realistic NPCs wandering the streets? Games like Civilization have a more simplistic design for cost-effective reasons.


My thinking was that what would make an AC trade/politics game unique would be the fact that you can walk the streets in a fully realized world. So you can see the effects you have had on the world and perhaps take part in some more hands on activities (which I have trouble to come up with). If it did not have a full 3d world then there would really be no point.

But I see your point and I guess you are right that the reason these type of games don't have a full world to explore is because it doesn't really make any sense because the extra value for the player is too small compared to the enormous investment by the developer.

Perhaps there could be a thief aspect to the game. Non-lethal stealth where you sneak into your competitors businesses to sabotage them, or steal information, plant evidence etc? Then two of the core pillars would remain. What do you say now?

SixKeys
07-06-2013, 07:45 PM
I wouldn't like it at all. This series needs to bring back focus on proper assassinations not venture off into Assassin civil servant territory.

"Pacifist's Creed".

LoyalACFan
07-06-2013, 07:46 PM
But "Assassin" is the name of the order, it doesn't mean the same in this context. Like I said I believe its members have had different roles (even though I failed to name someone who hasn't killed lol). But what does it really matter what the game is called anyway? AC is pretty much the only franchise doing third person historical drama. Why not try something radically different and at the same time explore a very different typ of story and set of characters?

Then just make a new IP. If you take away the stealth, hidden blades, combat, and assassinations, well, you've pretty much crippled every single fun thing to do in AC besides climbing, and even then it would lose some of the appeal if there were no guards to mix things up. I'm all for changing things up (who knew we'd go from a Syrian warrior-monk to a Welsh pirate in the same series?) but at the same time, you can't just abandon the core aspects of the series and expect it to feel like a natural evolution. To continue my GTA example, it would be as if Rockstar came out and said "Hey guys, this is our new game Grand Theft Auto VI. There's no more stealing, gunfighting, drug-dealing, or any other crimes, but the driving gameplay's still the same, except you play as a caterer who has to get food to weddings on time and you can't hit pedestrians."

Jexx21
07-06-2013, 07:47 PM
An actual pacifist probably would not join the Assassin order at all though, as what they do kinda goes against their beliefs.

SixKeys
07-06-2013, 07:48 PM
An actual pacifist probably would not join the Assassin order at all though, as what they do kinda goes against their beliefs.

Where's your sense of humor lately?

Locopells
07-06-2013, 07:52 PM
Hang on a sec that definition os for real world assassins, no? But Shaun is an assassin and I don't think he has killed anyone (nor is he a Shia Muslim). In such a large organization someone has to take care of the finances, perhaps in a game set in the prime of the East-India Company.


He actually has killed people, he and Rebecca both. He says so in the optional AC2 conversations.

As mentioned...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hm793wxCxzg


My mom likes watching me play AC only for the historical aspects, not so much the killing. :p Personally, I don't see how an assassin game would work without any assassinating.

Can't imagine my mum doing that...

Jexx21
07-06-2013, 07:53 PM
lost among my internal conflictions involving situations in real life

TheHumanTowel
07-06-2013, 07:55 PM
Can't imagine my mum doing that...
I could imagine your mum doing that

Sushiglutton
07-06-2013, 07:56 PM
Then just make a new IP. If you take away the stealth, hidden blades, combat, and assassinations, well, you've pretty much crippled every single fun thing to do in AC besides climbing, and even then it would lose some of the appeal if there were no guards to mix things up. I'm all for changing things up (who knew we'd go from a Syrian warrior-monk to a Welsh pirate in the same series?) but at the same time, you can't just abandon the core aspects of the series and expect it to feel like a natural evolution. To continue my GTA example, it would be as if Rockstar came out and said "Hey guys, this is our new game Grand Theft Auto VI. There's no more stealing, gunfighting, drug-dealing, or any other crimes, but the driving gameplay's still the same, except you play as a caterer who has to get food to weddings on time and you can't hit pedestrians."


Yeah perhaps this is too radical. Like all my ideas it would a commercial disaster, that's for sure. How about, as I said above in my reply to Sixkeys, if non-lethal stealth remained? We can steal, sabotage our competitors businesses etc?

LoyalACFan
07-06-2013, 08:10 PM
Yeah perhaps this is too radical. Like all my ideas it would a commercial disaster, that's for sure. How about, as I said above in my reply to Sixkeys, if non-lethal stealth remained? We can steal, sabotage our competitors businesses etc?

Then it might be a little better, but it still wouldn't feel like AC...

ACfan443
07-06-2013, 08:14 PM
This is one of the most bewildering AC concepts I've read.
Assassin's Creed - I want to kill. Not play the role of some errand boy. Most of the ideas you're proposing are already present in the games in the form of secondary tasks - and I never cared too much for them. To take that system and evolve it into a full game, and in the process break down the core pillars that make AC what it is sounds incredibly unappealing, and I wouldn't have to think twice about not buying it.

However I wouldn't mind if it was a handheld game - I never buy those :p

pacmanate
07-06-2013, 08:22 PM
An Assassin that doesn't Assassinate? Boring.

AC2_alex
07-06-2013, 08:43 PM
Yeah I think city-navigation should remain as it lets you explore the cities in full. But you are right there needs to be some more activities, haven't really thought about it that far lol. I mean different forms of transportation I guess, like ships, horses (horse racing, betting?) etc. Maybe one could have a farm and do a bunch of chores. Fishing, hunting (I guess that can be a bit violent)? And like I said in-game choices like in Mass Effect. Exploration to find rare merchandises (perhaps seeds for rare crops). Some puzzles, prehaps a bit of detective work? Maybe building. Would be pretty cool to build some structures that you could then platform on.

So like Animal Crossing except there's a story, a definite ending, and its set in the ACverse. Sounds cool to me. It would be cool if you could also free roam the world online with friends.

Rugterwyper32
07-06-2013, 08:46 PM
I like the idea, but not for a mainline AC game. If it was known as a spinoff set in the same universe, I'd be all for it. You can even keep some stealth by keeping elements of sabotage, spying on rival groups and the such. Heck, social stealth could be a thing that really works, considering you'd have no violent options.
Of course, there's the risk of it not working out, but it's an idea with potential. A spinoff or an entirely new IP based around the concept sounds like fun.

x___Luffy___x
07-06-2013, 08:58 PM
i personally wont like it. it will get boring very quick. assassinating is the very core of the game.

ArabianFrost
07-06-2013, 09:03 PM
I can see it be a revolutionary new IP. Maybe you assume the role of an Ottoman emperor and you have to play as him for the rest of the game. You assume the role of the emperor and go around doing stuff around the historical world such as overlooking training and stuff. It sounds sort of good, but the fully-rendered, fully-explorable world would go to waste since it won't affect the grand scale much and the trading, crafting, stealing and everything else such as world domination can be implemented into an AC game comfortably, so it seems a bit redundant to not let this world be of value and utilised in an AC game or any game that gives the explorable world significance. If some Dev does it right though, then they might be on to something.

SixKeys
07-06-2013, 11:56 PM
Yeah perhaps this is too radical. Like all my ideas it would a commercial disaster, that's for sure. How about, as I said above in my reply to Sixkeys, if non-lethal stealth remained? We can steal, sabotage our competitors businesses etc?

Sounds like Thief.

lasha7716
07-07-2013, 12:35 AM
you forget that assassins kinda lost battle against Templars in 21st century.yes they have people like shaun but they aren't in politics because abstergo has their people everywhere so only way for assassins to play their role in politics is to kill some important politicians(Templars) so i think that idea won't work

monster_rambo
07-07-2013, 01:20 AM
It depends, are there ponies?

AC2_alex
07-07-2013, 01:30 AM
you forget that assassins kinda lost battle against Templars in 21st century.yes they have people like shaun but they aren't in politics because abstergo has their people everywhere so only way for assassins to play their role in politics is to kill some important politicians(Templars) so i think that idea won't work

It doesn't have to be set in the present day, you know.

Gi1t
07-07-2013, 04:48 AM
Not to use an outdated meme, but Simpsons did it. :D

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h396/Gi1t/ACSOL_zpsc978b3d4.jpg

All diddly aside, you make a really interesting point. :) I might prefer one that still had some action in there, but one that focuses most of its attention on non-violent aspects could be an incredibly immersive experience. Focusing on investigating and trecking targets. setting events in motions to either make the Assassination possible or circumvent the need for it entirely. Really, even if they just explored some of these elements in a more typical AC game, they could bring it to a whole new level...

one that, I must admit, would probably be way beyond Ubisoft's current level of ambition. XD

Assassin_M
07-07-2013, 04:51 AM
How would you feel about a non-violent AC game? (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/779720-How-would-you-feel-about-a-non-violent-AC-game-Forums/page4)

I would feel......pampered xD

get it?? get it??...no...okay :|

tinrisky
07-07-2013, 06:58 AM
So you want to make ASSASSIN'S Creed not involve Assassinating or violence. Assassins, ladies and gentlemen are non-violent..

Sushiglutton
07-07-2013, 07:34 AM
I like the idea, but not for a mainline AC game. If it was known as a spinoff set in the same universe, I'd be all for it. You can even keep some stealth by keeping elements of sabotage, spying on rival groups and the such. Heck, social stealth could be a thing that really works, considering you'd have no violent options.
Of course, there's the risk of it not working out, but it's an idea with potential. A spinoff or an entirely new IP based around the concept sounds like fun.

That's a good point, they could make the ultimate social stealth game. Navigating parties as well as the parlament!


Sounds like Thief.

That part does, but it would be just one aspect of the game. The main focus is the economy/political power. The sneaking part is just a mean to accomplish those goals. Then on top there is a developed econmomy system etc.


It depends, are there ponies?

Yes there will be ponies that you can roast and sell to neighbouring villages.


Not to use an outdated meme, but Simpsons did it. :D



All diddly aside, you make a really interesting point. :) I might prefer one that still had some action in there, but one that focuses most of its attention on non-violent aspects could be an incredibly immersive experience. Focusing on investigating and trecking targets. setting events in motions to either make the Assassination possible or circumvent the need for it entirely. Really, even if they just explored some of these elements in a more typical AC game, they could bring it to a whole new level...

one that, I must admit, would probably be way beyond Ubisoft's current level of ambition. XD


Haha that Simpson pic is awesome :D. I think that having too much focus on investigation and tracking would kind of defeat the purpose though. Assassinations should not really be the focus, as this would be a very different kind of AC game. But I like your idea of setting up assassinations for other members of the the Creed. Maybe when all else fail we could call in aid from a true assassin who can do a bit of political murder for us?



How would you feel about a non-violent AC game? (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/779720-How-would-you-feel-about-a-non-violent-AC-game-Forums/page4)

I would feel......pampered xD

get it?? get it??...no...okay :|




I googled "pamper", now I know why a diaper is called that :eek:! I'm not sure if I get your meaning entirely though lol.



So you want to make ASSASSIN'S Creed not involve Assassinating or violence. Assassins, ladies and gentlemen are non-violent..

The Assassins is a large global organization. Different members have different roles (think Shaun, Rebecca). This would be a game about that. Perhaps the protagonist accidently killed an innocent and sworn to never wield a blade again? Instead he took a new role in the brotherhood to try to bring change in a non-violent way. And at the end it turns out he accomplished more than all his stabbing brothers put together ;).