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LoyalACFan
05-21-2013, 08:08 PM
There's a lot of AC3-bashing going around for some reason, but what really baffles me is that a lot of people are saying Brotherhood was the best...? Not hating on anyone who believes this, but I'm just curious as to what you think made it so good, because IMO it was the weakest of the series.

ProletariatPleb
05-21-2013, 08:13 PM
I don't know about the AC3 bashing part, but IMO Brotherhood's story was what a simpleton could understand without using any part of their brain and that's why a lot of 'modern gamers' liked it.

pacmanate
05-21-2013, 08:26 PM
I don't know why I liked it, but I did, but it was too short. Just like AC:R. Too short. Then AC3 game along, and it was long, but sucked.

TheBearJew32
05-21-2013, 08:32 PM
Why is it such a discovery when people say they like one AC game more than the others, regardless of which one it is

Sushiglutton
05-21-2013, 08:34 PM
Good selection of sidecontent focused on the core pillars.

x___Luffy___x
05-21-2013, 08:44 PM
dont understand how brotherhood was a better game than ac3, it was ok. it had a very simple story , nothing special about it . revelations was far awesome than brotherhood.

ac3 is on anvilnext it is far superior to any ac game in regards to gameplay ,animations, graphics etc. sure it had its flaws but which game doesnt...

for me the best ac are

1. AC3 and AC1 ( still play ac1 . its just so awesome )
2. AC REV
3. AC2
4. AC BROTHERHOOD.

lothario-da-be
05-21-2013, 08:45 PM
Good selection of sidecontent focused on the core pillars.
This, it was polished, had MP for the 1st time, had amazing side missions, more Leonardo :p, new gadgets, assassin recruits...

STDlyMcStudpants
05-21-2013, 08:51 PM
I loved the recruiting, the building repairs, the challenge of killing a templar captain at a certain time of day and ending his life before he gets away to control a section of the city, the side quests, treasure hunting, having feathers on my map, and i liked being able to ride horses in town and being able to call in assassins on your enemies...
It was in my opinion..the most "fun" in the series...it felt less serious and more like something ubi gave us to let loose, go wild and hold us off until ac 3
It was a pretty cool game. I also enjoyed multiplayer most on brotherhood so far.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-21-2013, 08:57 PM
As far as game length..every assassins creed (excluding the first) took me about the same amount of time to do everything. (about 30 hours) ACB and ACR were in no way shorter games...just smaller games.

lothario-da-be
05-21-2013, 08:58 PM
As far as game length..every assassins creed (excluding the first) took me about the same amount of time to do everything. (about 30 hours) ACB and ACR were in no way shorter games...just smaller games.
Compared to ac2 shorter too.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-21-2013, 09:03 PM
Compared to ac2 shorter too.

AC 2 took me 30 give or take hours too..

AssassinHMS
05-21-2013, 09:05 PM
ACB had a lot of positive aspects:
- A good atmosphere, provided by stellar music and the awesomeness of Rome (even if the lighting was bad);
- Rome was a blast to explore, full of great side missions, magnificent landmarks and mysteries (glyphs, romulus lairs...);
- The game had many of the elements important to the franchise (stealth, assassinations, tails, infiltrations).
However it had flaws:
- No moral greyness whatsoever;
- No open ended missions;
- Combat was too easy.

Those who play AC for the story alone, probably weren't satisfied but, if you care about gameplay and you want to play an actual assassin's creed game, you'll have a lot of fun.

TinyTemplar
05-21-2013, 09:08 PM
I can't say that ACB is the best, but in this game Lucy died and the first AC multiplayer appeared, so that game is quite significant for me.

ArabianFrost
05-21-2013, 09:24 PM
Gameplay, that is all.

SixKeys
05-21-2013, 09:27 PM
The most fun part of AC2 was the amount of side content and ACB expanded on that. The story may have been shorter, but with 100% sync it took me longer to finish the game than AC1 and AC2 combined, so in my mind it had an epic length. Above all it was fun. I got to rejoin many of my favorite characters from AC2 again, Rome was a great city with a surprising amount of variety, the combat was easy as hell but also the most enjoyable system the series has ever had. Glyph puzzles returned, full sync objectives offered replayability, there was a great soundtrack and I liked running around fixing Rome. The game didn't feel much different from AC2 but was more polished in the details. The multiplayer was fantastic, its evolutions in the later games have never been able to top the first one.

In short, what was special about ACB was the wealth of content, addictive multiplayer and polishing the best features of AC2.

D.I.D.
05-21-2013, 09:32 PM
I don't know about the AC3 bashing part, but IMO Brotherhood's story was what a simpleton could understand without using any part of their brain and that's why a lot of 'modern gamers' liked it.

Oh dear. FISTICUFFS.

Firstly, show me the AC game with the deep plot that a simpleton couldn't understand. Don't all shout out at once.

Now, here's why ACB is the best of the series; it wins on every single count. I'm not saying there's no fault in ACB; there is, and there was always room for improvement, but I hadn't expected that improvement in so many areas would end in that game. I would never have expected that, two games on, ACB would still be my favourite of the series.

Let's look at story first. I've said before that I'll take an entertaining pantomime over a plot that's drunk on the Dunning-Kruger effect every single time, and that's the case here. Yes, they're one-note villains. Some of AC3's villains don't even have one note.

ACB's story has a greatness that no other AC game achieves, and that's about tightness. ACB never forgets that it's a game, it always keeps its story wrapped around the game (i.e. plot and mission design move forward hand-in-hand), and it never forgets about motivation. It had a tougher job than AC1 or AC2 because it was more of a sprawling story than ever before. It had to maintain its momentum no matter how much you hopped around between branches of the story, or didn't. It had to make you feel that no matter what line of activity you'd chosen to follow, you were doing something that contributed towards the end goal.

The missions are the best of any AC game. AC1 had a good illusion of choice, although not that great in practice. AC2 was extremely prescriptive, but ACB was broad. The missions had wide open phases within the mission which occasionally led to a little bottleneck - maybe getting through a heavily guarded gateway - to progress to the next stage, where again the field of play expanded. Think of the mission to reach the bomber, and how many sections that mission had: the number of different approaches and solutions you made on your next visits. The missions also made really good use of the architecture, so even when you were doing dumb path-finding around the outside of the Castello, it was still exciting to look at and to experience.

Best part: missions that lazy people hated, the ones that required problem-solving. For example, you had to think about how to 100% sync the courtesan mission to retrieve the antidote from the doctor. What's the fastest way to get there? The fastest route? How to pickpocket without the guards seeing me? Also, the war machine missions: how to get to that machine blueprint without being seen? Nothing like that has happened before or since. It's also the last time we saw infiltration missions into the interiors of really large buildings. Given the title, there really ought to be a lot more of that.

ACB had choice that didn't feel like time-wasting. In ACR and AC3 in particular, I felt like I was wasting the protag's time when doing anything outside of the main plot, and I half-expected the game to punish me for making the wrong decisions. The danger of a multi-threaded game plot is that the player becomes too aware that he/she can take their sweet time, and none of this really matters. ACB remembered to tie these themes together.

ACB introduced Borgia Towers, which added more assassinations and therefore mini-missions, but my motivation for engaging with the economic system was not connected to acquisition so much as atmosphere. I enjoyed the way the atmosphere brightened and the mood of the people changed. ACR failed to keep that concept going. Really, this is another big factor: romance. They've got to plug that emotion more. I thought ACR, due to its setting, would walk all over ACB for a sense of romance, but it did not. AC3 returned some of it in the Frontier, but not the cities.

The memories of Ezio's past were nicely handled, and it added a little something to those locations. We do have associations with places, and games in cities ought to play with this more. It wasn't vital, but it was a nice touch, and ACB was full of nice touches: the best menus, the best training, the Clusters. There was a kind of flair on display in ACB which needs to be recovered. AC3 had some great hints of that returning, especially with the splinters of Animus code forming polygonal shapes around you as you walked to the theatre. I hope AC4 has had enough breathing room to allow the designers to concentrate on those whistles and bells.

ProletariatPleb
05-21-2013, 09:40 PM
Firstly, show me the AC game with the deep plot that a simpleton couldn't understand. Don't all shout out at once.
Completely deep and mature? None yet, doesn't change that Brotherhood only made it simpler with kiddie enemies and the story I don't like it at all. Agree/disagree not my concern only voicing what I think of the plot. It didn't have the conspiracy vibe, the 'finding gaps in history where we can insert our own little story' bits just didn't click.

I'm only talking about story here, not gameplay. We all know it added a lot in terms of gameplay.

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 09:45 PM
Special? Of course it was.
Simpleton story
blandest city.
Subpar ost.
Unfleshed recruit system.
Terrible characterization and pace.

Only plus was the side content. That's very special

SixKeys
05-21-2013, 09:47 PM
ACB had choice that didn't feel like time-wasting. In ACR and AC3 in particular, I felt like I was wasting the protag's time when doing anything outside of the main plot, and I half-expected the game to punish me for making the wrong decisions. The danger of a multi-threaded game plot is that the player becomes too aware that he/she can take their sweet time, and none of this really matters. ACB remembered to tie these themes together.

Hear, hear. This is a good point. Even when you were doing stuff that's pointless on the surface like collecting Borgia flags, the game at least gave you an illusion that there was a story-related purpose to them: removing Borgia influence. Everything you did in the game was about liberating Rome and making the people happier. Even completing club missions felt plot-connected because you were working to gain the trust of different guilds so they would help you. In all the other games, even AC1, there was stuff that had nothing to do with the overall plot. (Why was Altaïr killing random Templar knights and collecting flags in the Kingdom?) In ACB it was all about creating lasting change over many years, so it didn't feel out of place when you sometimes had to go and do stuff that wasn't of the highest priority. It still contributed to your overall quest in a small way.

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 09:50 PM
Hear, hear. This is a good point. Even when you were doing stuff that's pointless on the surface like collecting Borgia flags, the game at least gave you an illusion that there was a story-related purpose to them: removing Borgia influence. Everything you did in the game was about liberating Rome and making the people happier. Even completing club missions felt plot-connected because you were working to gain the trust of different guilds so they would help you. In all the other games, even AC1, there was stuff that had nothing to do with the overall plot. (Why was Altaïr killing random Templar knights and collecting flags in the Kingdom?) In ACB it was all about creating lasting change over many years, so it didn't feel out of place when you sometimes had to go and do stuff that wasn't of the highest priority. It still contributed to your overall quest in a small way.
And acb did a VERY good job of showing the change in Rome.

It had a pink filter, changed music and beggars now had umberellas. Wooowww.

SixKeys
05-21-2013, 09:52 PM
And acb did a VERY good job of showing the change in Rome.

It had a pink filter, changed music and beggars now had umberellas. Wooowww.

As opposed to AC3 where....

Oh right. Nothing you did in AC3 had any impact on the world.

ProletariatPleb
05-21-2013, 09:53 PM
Special? Of course it was.
Simpleton story
blandest city.
Subpar ost.
Unfleshed recruit system.
Terrible characterization and pace.

Only plus was the side content. That's very special
http://i.imgur.com/KAosZ.gif

Ofcourse I'm not saying the latter 2 were any better, I find the series going down the toilet with each installment.


As opposed to AC3 where....

Oh right. Nothing you did in AC3 had any impact on the world.
Uhh...nor did in AC:B really, or any AC for that matter.

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 09:55 PM
As opposed to AC3 where....

Oh right. Nothing you did in AC3 had any impact on the world.
Homestead. Forts. Naval.

building a town, clearing routes for trade and removing taxes. Not saying omg is best, just saying at least it's more than just an umberella and new track.

Jack-Reacher
05-21-2013, 10:27 PM
I liked the gameplay in ACB a lot, I thought the Borgia towers were a brilliant addition and the side missions were actually enjoyable. I dunno I just thought the gameplay was just better.

SixKeys
05-21-2013, 10:27 PM
Homestead. Forts. Naval.

building a town, clearing routes for trade and removing taxes. Not saying omg is best, just saying at least it's more than just an umberella and new track.

What about forts? What about naval? The naval stuff was entirely optional and had zero impact on the rest of the world, or even the naval parts of it.

Building a town was a feature copied from both AC2 and ACB. It was separate area of the map, just like the Villa in AC2.

I'm surprised you only noticed umbrellas considering you've even played ACB more times than I have. Let's see: less beggars on the streets, less drunks, ordinary people getting rich clothing, noblemen with canes, poor people with food, scholars with books, street performers, a group of friends setting up a picnic, happy couples instead of crying ones everywhere. Shops being renovated meant lowering prices which is basically the same as removing taxes. Conquering Borgia towers meant clearing areas of the no-trespassing zone, the same as clearing trade routes. So the tax-lowering and trade routes was not a new feature in AC3, just redressed. Just like many of ACB's systems were just redressed AC2 systems.

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 10:44 PM
What about forts? What about naval? The naval stuff was entirely optional and had zero impact on the rest of the world, or even the naval parts of it.

Building a town was a feature copied from both AC2 and ACB. It was separate area of the map, just like the Villa in AC2..
I was gonna reply with a pretty big post, but....saying the homestead is anything like the villa and Rome is just bs. And I don't work well with bs. Sorry

TheHumanTowel
05-21-2013, 10:52 PM
I was gonna reply with a pretty big post, but....saying the homestead is anything like the villa and Rome is just bs. And I don't work well with bs. Sorry
Great response M! Also conveniently this allows you to not respond to his arguments! Good for you!

ProletariatPleb
05-21-2013, 10:55 PM
Oh dear, you guys fight like children...

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 10:56 PM
Great response M! Also conveniently this allows you to not respond to his arguments! Good for you!
That's basically your every reply every time you're on here..find something else to do.

LoyalACFan
05-21-2013, 10:57 PM
So the one constant positive I'm seeing cited by all the ACB fans is the side content. I'll agree, it did tie into the main story much more fluidly than any other side content we've seen. However, to me, it got incredibly boring relatively quickly since EVERYTHING I did was directly anti-Cesare. Sure, there were several different mission types, but every single one of them was about cutting Cesare's support out from under him. IMO, the mark of a good game is a varied yet consistently enjoyable experience, and ACB never really provided that for me since the anti-Borgia campaign was inescapable, and the themes surrounding it never changed. In other AC's, each sequence added a slightly different flavor to the narrative, but I never felt that in Brotherhood. From beginning to end, I was just relentlessly chipping away at Cesare's power, even in side missions. Perhaps it would have been more enjoyable if he were a more memorable villain, but being the cackling Cartoon Network character he was, I guess I just got tired of it.

To me, the only real pros of the game were the infiltration missions (i.e. the Castello and a few of the War Machines), the kill streaks, and Desmond in Monterriggioni.

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 10:57 PM
Oh dear, you guys fight like children...
When I see chickens I tend to cluck. Yeah

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 11:04 PM
So the one constant positive I'm seeing cited by all the ACB fans is the side content. I'll agree, it did tie into the main story much more fluidly than any other side content we've seen. However, to me, it got incredibly boring relatively quickly since EVERYTHING I did was directly anti-Cesare. Sure, there were several different mission types, but every single one of them was about cutting Cesare's support out from under him. IMO, the mark of a good game is a varied yet consistently enjoyable experience, and ACB never really provided that for me since the anti-Borgia campaign was inescapable, and the themes surrounding it never changed. In other AC's, each sequence added a slightly different flavor to the narrative, but I never felt that in Brotherhood. From beginning to end, I was just relentlessly chipping away at Cesare's power, even in side missions. Perhaps it would have been more enjoyable if he were a more memorable villain, but being the cackling Cartoon Network character he was, I guess I just got tired of it.

To me, the only real pros of the game were the infiltration missions (i.e. the Castello and a few of the War Machines), the kill streaks, and Desmond in Monterriggioni.
I didn't like the side missions because of its tying to the story. I thought that was extremely stupid, because it means these missions at a certain point will sound awkward after Cesare is gone. I just led the many activities

Sushiglutton
05-21-2013, 11:13 PM
So the one constant positive I'm seeing cited by all the ACB fans is the side content. I'll agree, it did tie into the main story much more fluidly than any other side content we've seen. However, to me, it got incredibly boring relatively quickly since EVERYTHING I did was directly anti-Cesare. Sure, there were several different mission types, but every single one of them was about cutting Cesare's support out from under him. IMO, the mark of a good game is a varied yet consistently enjoyable experience, and ACB never really provided that for me since the anti-Borgia campaign was inescapable, and the themes surrounding it never changed. In other AC's, each sequence added a slightly different flavor to the narrative, but I never felt that in Brotherhood. From beginning to end, I was just relentlessly chipping away at Cesare's power, even in side missions. Perhaps it would have been more enjoyable if he were a more memorable villain, but being the cackling Cartoon Network character he was, I guess I just got tired of it.

To me, the only real pros of the game were the infiltration missions (i.e. the Castello and a few of the War Machines), the kill streaks, and Desmond in Monterriggioni.

You care ten times more about story than I do, that's why you can't understand why I enjoyed AC:B a lot more than say AC3. I don't care about the motivation for doing the various tasks. I care if they are fun as activities. And to me the sidecontent in AC:B was mostly entertaining. For example I really liked the Animus training missions even though they were completely pointless. I liked them because they were gameplay distilled. By the same logic the frontiersman missions in AC3 were terrible imo because the only gameplay involved was getting from point A to point B to watch a cutscene.

To understand why I thought AC:B was the best (or at least one of the best) you must understand that to me gameplay >>>>>>>> story.

TheHumanTowel
05-21-2013, 11:15 PM
That's basically your every reply every time you're on here..find something else to do.
Basically meaning not at all similar to my many other postings. I think I'll do what I want actually but thanks for the input chum.


Oh dear, you guys fight like children...
And you're such a bastion of maturity? Try not mention casuals or imply people who like what you don't like are stupid for a whole day.

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 11:18 PM
Basically meaning not at all similar to my many other postings. I think I'll do what I want actually but thanks for the input chum.
No. You'll do as I say and there's nothing you can do about it.

Reply to this post with a post attempting to sound smart and cool.

ProletariatPleb
05-21-2013, 11:26 PM
And you're such a bastion of maturity? Try not mention casuals or imply people who like what you don't like are stupid for a whole day.
Yeah and 9 out of 10 times it's just to provoke a reaction. And evidently, it works.

EDIT: And I still don't fight like children Towel.

LoyalACFan
05-21-2013, 11:26 PM
You care ten times more about story than I do, that's why you can't understand why I enjoyed AC:B a lot more than say AC3. I don't care about the motivation for doing the various tasks. I care if they are fun as activities. And to me the sidecontent in AC:B was mostly entertaining. For example I really liked the Animus training missions even though they were completely pointless. I liked them because they were gameplay distilled. By the same logic the frontiersman missions in AC3 were terrible imo because the only gameplay involved was getting from point A to point B to watch a cutscene.

To understand why I thought AC:B was the best (or at least one of the best) you must understand that to me gameplay >>>>>>>> story.

Fair enough. ACB did offer up some good side content, but I never liked the story behind them enough to really get into them, I guess.

Assassin_M
05-21-2013, 11:26 PM
You care ten times more about story than I do, that's why you can't understand why I enjoyed AC:B a lot more than say AC3. I don't care about the motivation for doing the various tasks. I care if they are fun as activities. And to me the sidecontent in AC:B was mostly entertaining. For example I really liked the Animus training missions even though they were completely pointless. I liked them because they were gameplay distilled. By the same logic the frontiersman missions in AC3 were terrible imo because the only gameplay involved was getting from point A to point B to watch a cutscene.

To understand why I thought AC:B was the best (or at least one of the best) you must understand that to me gameplay >>>>>>>> story.
This

TheHumanTowel
05-21-2013, 11:28 PM
Yeah and 9 out of 10 times it's just to provoke a reaction. And evidently, it works.
That's no better than M's "seems I touched a nerve" bollox. And it doesn't make it any less stupid.

Sushiglutton
05-21-2013, 11:31 PM
Fair enough. ACB did offer up some good side content, but I never liked the story behind them enough to really get into them, I guess.

And I respect that. Actually I wish I was into the story enough to care about the motivation, but I rarely am. I guess it's because the entire premise in videogames is typically so absurd (for example the enormous bodycounts) so I have gotten numb to a point where I don't really care about things making sense on that level.

ProletariatPleb
05-21-2013, 11:32 PM
That's no better than M's "seems I touched a nerve" bollox. And it doesn't make it any less stupid.
http://i.imgur.com/lbKPX.jpg
Be that as it may. I will not stoop to your childish level, afterall you're the one who got *****ed assume I was referring to you with what I said. This conversation is over.

TheHumanTowel
05-21-2013, 11:45 PM
http://i.imgur.com/lbKPX.jpg
Be that as it may. I will not stoop to your childish level, afterall you're the one who got *****ed assume I was referring to you with what I said. This conversation is over.
Spoken like a true casual

itsamea-mario
05-21-2013, 11:59 PM
http://visual.merriam-webster.com/images/society/weapons/thrusting-cutting-weapons_1.jpg

D.I.D.
05-22-2013, 12:39 AM
Completely deep and mature? None yet, doesn't change that Brotherhood only made it simpler with kiddie enemies and the story I don't like it at all. Agree/disagree not my concern only voicing what I think of the plot. It didn't have the conspiracy vibe, the 'finding gaps in history where we can insert our own little story' bits just didn't click.

I'm only talking about story here, not gameplay. We all know it added a lot in terms of gameplay.

I think it did okay on that score. Since I'd really felt the absence of Cesare, Lucrezia and Juan Borgia in AC2, I enjoyed finally seeing them in ACB. I think they could have made better use of them considering the sheer numbers of people Cesare is believed to have ordered for death, but I liked the swivel-eyed silliness of it all. I don't think it was the right game to make a fully dark and serious treatment, and I think the energy would have completely evaporated if they had.

Every dramatisation has ended up taking a pretty campy path when representing the lives of the Borgias. Even history books can't record their lives without sounding like an X-rated version of The Munsters. The way they behaved was crazy, and the times were pretty mad too: the excess and wealth of the Church and the nobility was out of control. In some ways AC was restrained in their depictions; there's a lot more salacious wackiness they could have added to the story and yet chose not to do so.

They had to choose a single overarching atmosphere so that you'd know at a glance what you were in for, and they went for "murder party" and turned that dial up to 11. I think it was the right choice. It would have been no more intelligent if it traded less on kitsch, but it would almost certainly have been dull. By constrast, AC3 doesn't feel to me like it knows what it is, or has a tone in mind.

SixKeys
05-22-2013, 01:02 AM
So the one constant positive I'm seeing cited by all the ACB fans is the side content. I'll agree, it did tie into the main story much more fluidly than any other side content we've seen. However, to me, it got incredibly boring relatively quickly since EVERYTHING I did was directly anti-Cesare. Sure, there were several different mission types, but every single one of them was about cutting Cesare's support out from under him. IMO, the mark of a good game is a varied yet consistently enjoyable experience, and ACB never really provided that for me since the anti-Borgia campaign was inescapable, and the themes surrounding it never changed. In other AC's, each sequence added a slightly different flavor to the narrative, but I never felt that in Brotherhood. From beginning to end, I was just relentlessly chipping away at Cesare's power, even in side missions. Perhaps it would have been more enjoyable if he were a more memorable villain, but being the cackling Cartoon Network character he was, I guess I just got tired of it.

That's interesting, since I'm the complete opposite. I loved that all the missions were tied to bringing Cesare down. In AC2, ACR and AC3 it felt silly when you first had to watch a cut scene where the hero goes "my God, we've got to stop them! There's no time to lose!!", and then if you choose to go do a side mission next, they're all chill like "oh sure, I've got time to deliver your letter/herd pigs/pick flowers". In ACB it made sense why you would sometimes sidestep your main quest to go help a courtesan or send recruits to distant lands because ultimately it was all contributing to the good fight.

Assassin_M
05-22-2013, 01:14 AM
That's interesting, since I'm the complete opposite. I loved that all the missions were tied to bringing Cesare down. In AC2, ACR and AC3 it felt silly when you first had to watch a cut scene where the hero goes "my God, we've got to stop them! There's no time to lose!!", and then if you choose to go do a side mission next, they're all chill like "oh sure, I've got time to deliver your letter/herd pigs/pick flowers". In ACB it made sense why you would sometimes sidestep your main quest to go help a courtesan or send recruits to distant lands because ultimately it was all contributing to the good fight.
I'd rather that than hearing about cesare's tyranny and trying to stop it in1507.... You know....5 years after the actual fall of the Borgia happens

Soulid_Snake
05-22-2013, 01:36 AM
This baffles me as well, ACB had monotone characters, the Borgia thing was overplayed, and the city bloody sucked. It felt quite rushed.

The only things I liked about it were the music, Leonardo's missions and the improved combat. It wasn't brilliant, but still a mile ahead of it's competition.

MasterfulList53
05-22-2013, 01:41 AM
AC:B might have had a worse story than AC3, but it did have generally higher quality voice acting and lip synching. In particular, there were some terrific scenes between Rodrigo and Cesare that I remember (been a while since I payed it though.) Compare that to AC3, with Connor talking loudly at Norris in a monotone in the Homestead missions, with his lips continuing to move even when he isn't speaking.

Here's another example, which is a fairer comparison between the two games. In a Thieves Guild side mission in Brotherhood, Ezio consoles a boy and calls him 'bambino' or something, which was a nice touch. In AC3, after completing the Thieves Guild missions, Connor thanks the boy who helps him by calling him a 'little girl.' Evidently because girls were removed from the game after the line was recorded. Not such a nice touch.

AC3 is full of such indiscrepancies in the voice acting. It's clear at times that the actors were just reading out lines without knowing any context.

I still think AC3 was the better game; just wish it had the same standard of voice direction as the Ezio trilogy.

Assassin_M
05-22-2013, 01:56 AM
AC:B might have had a worse story than AC3, but it did have generally higher quality voice acting and lip synching. In particular, there were some terrific scenes between Rodrigo and Cesare that I remember (been a while since I payed it though.) Compare that to AC3, with Connor talking loudly at Norris in a monotone in the Homestead missions, with his lips continuing to move even when he isn't speaking.

Here's another example, which is a fairer comparison between the two games. In a Thieves Guild side mission in Brotherhood, Ezio consoles a boy and calls him 'bambino' or something, which was a nice touch. In AC3, after completing the Thieves Guild missions, Connor thanks the boy who helps him by calling him a 'little girl.' Evidently because girls were removed from the game after the line was recorded. Not such a nice touch.

AC3 is full of such indiscrepancies in the voice acting. It's clear at times that the actors were just reading out lines without knowing any context.

I still think AC3 was the better game; just wish it had the same standard of voice direction as the Ezio trilogy.
AC3 actually had better lip syncing. The occasional glitch happens. Even in ACB. When ezio is talking about Minerva, near the end, the lines finish and his lips keep moving. So like I said happens in every game. Not to mention that AC3 uses a facial animation technology far more advanced than that of ACB, so saying ACB has better cinematics and lip syncing is rather....how should say this...quite wrong

also that was not a thieves guild side missions. It was the slaver story mission that introduces the Templar agents

I-Like-Pie45
05-22-2013, 02:18 AM
This baffles me as well, ACB had monotone characters, the Borgia thing was overplayed, and the city bloody sucked. It felt quite rushed.

The only things I liked about it were the music, Leonardo's missions and the improved combat. It wasn't brilliant, but still a mile ahead of it's competition.

implying that ACB is miles ahead of RDR...

:(

assuming that you were talking about the open world games of 2010

MasterfulList53
05-22-2013, 02:40 AM
AC3 actually had better lip syncing. The occasional glitch happens. Even in ACB. When ezio is talking about Minerva, near the end, the lines finish and his lips keep moving. So like I said happens in every game. Not to mention that AC3 uses a facial animation technology far more advanced than that of ACB, so saying ACB has better cinematics and lip syncing is rather....how should say this...quite wrong

also that was not a thieves guild side missions. It was the slaver story mission that introduces the Templar agents

Outside of main missions in AC3, there often isn't really any lip-synching - characters' lips just move up and down constantly, sometimes long after they have stopped speaking. These aren't glitches, its clearly just a stock animation that runs has nothing to do with what is being said.

Anyway, as I wrote in my last post, I thought Brotherhood had 'generally higher standards' - when it was at its peak, AC3 was better, but it seemed much less consistent at points. In the side missions and Homestead missions the cinematic quality often dropped during AC3. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Homestead missions, and thought Connor was given a subtle, naunced performance in the main missions. However, he is clearly just talking loudly at people in some of the side missions (though for me the Homestead missions were a lot more than just 'side-missions,' which is maybe why I expected more of them when it came to cinematics.)

I'll take your word for it that the lip-synching in AC:B wasn't as good as I remembered it being, like I said it's been a while since I last played it. Maybe part of it is that since the quality in AC3 is generally so much higher than in the previous titles, it means the odd inconsistency tends to stand out a lot more. It's also a much bigger game, meaning there are going to be more instances of these kinds of things.

Also, my bad on the mix-up over which mission it was in Brotherhood.

Megas_Doux
05-22-2013, 02:48 AM
Special? Of course it was.
Simpleton story
blandest city.
Subpar ost.
Unfleshed recruit system.
Terrible characterization and pace.

Only plus was the side content. That's very special

This!!!!!!! I have seen more serious antagonists on the Austin Power series.

And there is also vittoria agli assassini....

Assassin_M
05-22-2013, 03:34 AM
Outside of main missions in AC3, there often isn't really any lip-synching - characters' lips just move up and down constantly, sometimes long after they have stopped speaking. These aren't glitches, its clearly just a stock animation that runs has nothing to do with what is being said.

Anyway, as I wrote in my last post, I thought Brotherhood had 'generally higher standards' - when it was at its peak, AC3 was better, but it seemed much less consistent at points. In the side missions and Homestead missions the cinematic quality often dropped during AC3. Don't get me wrong, I loved the Homestead missions, and thought Connor was given a subtle, naunced performance in the main missions. However, he is clearly just talking loudly at people in some of the side missions (though for me the Homestead missions were a lot more than just 'side-missions,' which is maybe why I expected more of them when it came to cinematics.)

I'll take your word for it that the lip-synching in AC:B wasn't as good as I remembered it being, like I said it's been a while since I last played it. Maybe part of it is that since the quality in AC3 is generally so much higher than in the previous titles, it means the odd inconsistency tends to stand out a lot more. It's also a much bigger game, meaning there are going to be more instances of these kinds of things.

Also, my bad on the mix-up over which mission it was in Brotherhood.
Which side missions in AC III? The frontiersmen one?? That's the only side mission where there's the stocky facial animation and thus low quality lip syncing, because the scenes for those missions do not use the high quality face models. It's an exploit. Won't blame you if you don't like it, though, but that's the price for higher graphics on outdated hardware. Even gta iv used that exploit.

twenty_glyphs
05-22-2013, 04:01 AM
Plain and simple, Brotherhood was the most fun I have had playing an Assassin's Creed game. It felt like an even more polished version of AC2 and introduced a lot of nice gameplay features. The main story was definitely short, but the side content was great and really tied into the main path well for me. Getting to explore Rome was awesome. Borgia towers were a great addition to the open world gameplay. Multiplayer felt fresh, unique and fun.

Above all, the end product just came together in a beautiful way for me. The game really had a sense of history, exploration and mystery. They really ramped up the mysteries and started connecting events in the past and the present. Desmond became somewhat interesting and started to seem important. As mentioned before, even the UI felt artistic and gave the game a nice sense of style and flair.

Basically, Brotherhood was a blast and provided the most hours of gameplay for me in the series. It made me fall in love with the series. Following that same cheesy metaphor, AC3 broke my heart.

projectpat06
05-22-2013, 04:02 AM
ACB felt like a "bethesda produced" size dlc for AC2. We had the same character with worse robes and the same supporting characters with worse stories. Ezio's allies felt like they were more forced to be in the game so ubisoft could use them again. The innovations in combat (AC3's were better) weren't substantial and the new recruit system was disappointing from what they advertised it to be. I felt like I was playing some Ac game on facebook with the recruits system (farmville was better). ACR and AC3 did a much better job with the templar dens and forts. Never cared for the multiplayer. usually didnt work anytime I tried it. The story was more of a letdown than AC3's. ACR's was really good besides the parachute scene. That was dumb. The tombs may be the only highlight of the game, but I still like ACR's better. My biggest complaint was the papal guards. I mean there only 4 guards in free roam. FOUR! and they stood in some random spot like they're catching up on the latest gossip drinking tea. WTF!! And don't get me started on the armor. Oh let's give ezio this weird armor that doesn't match at all on the bracers. Oh let's make the player have to put on these ugly shoulder pads with no way to remove armor. Oh lets now give ezio the glove with the second hidden blade when it should have been used in AC2, but no lets stick it on ezio's robes in AcB and make it look completely out of place. The game sucked (my opinion not fact) and ubisoft did a terrible job with false advertising of ezio's look and the recruiting system.

At least AC3, Connor looks exactly how they advertised him to look

MasterfulList53
05-22-2013, 04:30 AM
Which side missions in AC III? The frontiersmen one?? That's the only side mission where there's the stocky facial animation and thus low quality lip syncing, because the scenes for those missions do not use the high quality face models. It's an exploit. Won't blame you if you don't like it, though, but that's the price for higher graphics on outdated hardware. Even gta iv used that exploit.

It happens a lot more than just in the Frontiersman missions - it happens in many ambient conversations (eg when Connor talks to Assassin recruits in the bars) as well as often during missions whenever anyone is talking outside of a cutscene. I've not got any Brotherhood saves to hand, but just checked 'A Warm Welcome,' where you meet Yusuf in Revelations, and the lip synching fits quite nicely to the words, even when Ezio and Yusuf are walking about, ie not in a cutscene. That's how I remember it being most of the time in the Ezio trilogy (maybe my memory is faulty.) Contrast this mission with 'Welcome to Boston' in AC3 and the stock mouth animation is used when Haytham is walking around with Charles. The words don't match their lip movements at all and this happens throughout the game.

I know it's a minor detail, but it was frequent and it bothered me. Anyway, it probably only stood out since the attention to detail in the rest of AC3 was so mind-blowing (especially NPC animations and Connor's reactivity to the environment) so it kind of makes up for it. And hopefully it'll be a thing of the past come next-gen.

I think maybe this is getting a little off-topic, anyway. I should say I agree with most of what I've read of your opinions on Brotherhood besides this one thing.

Assassin_M
05-22-2013, 04:31 AM
It happens a lot more than just in the Frontiersman missions - it happens in many ambient conversations (eg when Connor talks to Assassin recruits in the bars) as well as often during missions whenever anyone is talking outside of a cutscene. I've not got any Brotherhood saves to hand, but just checked 'A Warm Welcome,' where you meet Yusuf in Revelations, and the lip synching fits quite nicely to the words, even when Ezio and Yusuf are walking about, ie not in a cutscene. That's how I remember it being most of the time in the Ezio trilogy (maybe my memory is faulty.) Contrast this mission with 'Welcome to Boston' in AC3 and the stock mouth animation is used when Haytham is walking around with Charles. The words don't match their lip movements at all and this happens throughout the game.

I know it's a minor detail, but it was frequent and it bothered me. Anyway, it probably only stood out since the attention to detail in the rest of AC3 was so mind-blowing (especially NPC animations and Connor's reactivity to the environment) so it kind of makes up for it. And hopefully it'll be a thing of the past come next-gen.

I think maybe this is getting a little off-topic, anyway. I should say I agree with most of what I've read of your opinions on Brotherhood besides this one thing.
Then yeah, fair enough I guess...it`s like I said...these do not use the high quality cinematic models that the cutscenes use....I can see why it can look bad

ProletariatPleb
05-22-2013, 04:34 AM
Then yeah, fair enough I guess...it`s like I said...these do not use the high quality cinematic models that the cutscenes use....I can see why it can look bad
Cleer yer PM spayce laad.

TheBearJew32
05-22-2013, 05:46 AM
Don't forget the Romulus lairs. Those were good...the armour...not so much. I really liked the OST =/

Farlander1991
05-22-2013, 07:10 AM
I didn't like the side missions because of its tying to the story. I thought that was extremely stupid, because it means these missions at a certain point will sound awkward after Cesare is gone

That's the beauty of the Animus, though. We're not IN that time and place. We're reliving it through the machine. Bits and pieces of genetic memory.

Yes, you can do courtesan missions to lower Juan Borgia's influence after he's dead. But those missions still take place during the time when he's alive. In AC3 you can do all the Peg Leg mission content after finishing the game, and most of those take place before Connor even fits Haytham.

It's the Animus. There IS no possible problem here with 'I need to hurry to save this castle from siege but I'll chase after some chickens first', because the whole world is a simulation, it's not real. If you need to hurry up to save Bartolomeo's wife but decide to first race with thieves, Ezio as a character is not actually doing it in that order. Those are just genetic memories that WE, as the people who use the Animus, relive in that order.

Besides, ACB starts in 1507, then we jump back to 1499, relive it until 1507, and then jump back to 1506 (Da Vinci's disappearance). It's the Animus, chronological order in what's happening can be played with and is not always important.

ProletariatPleb
05-22-2013, 08:13 AM
That's the beauty of the Animus, though. We're not IN that time and place. We're reliving it through the machine. Bits and pieces of genetic memory.

Yes, you can do courtesan missions to lower Juan Borgia's influence after he's dead. But those missions still take place during the time when he's alive. In AC3 you can do all the Peg Leg mission content after finishing the game, and most of those take place before Connor even fits Haytham.

It's the Animus. There IS no possible problem here with 'I need to hurry to save this castle from siege but I'll chase after some chickens first', because the whole world is a simulation, it's not real. If you need to hurry up to save Bartolomeo's wife but decide to first race with thieves, Ezio as a character is not actually doing it in that order. Those are just genetic memories that WE, as the people who use the Animus, relive in that order.

Besides, ACB starts in 1507, then we jump back to 1499, relive it until 1507, and then jump back to 1506 (Da Vinci's disappearance). It's the Animus, chronological order in what's happening can be played with and is not always important.
I find the animus excuse to be running thing and used wayy too much. But yeah, can't really help it either.

LoyalACFan
05-22-2013, 10:48 PM
That's interesting, since I'm the complete opposite. I loved that all the missions were tied to bringing Cesare down. In AC2, ACR and AC3 it felt silly when you first had to watch a cut scene where the hero goes "my God, we've got to stop them! There's no time to lose!!", and then if you choose to go do a side mission next, they're all chill like "oh sure, I've got time to deliver your letter/herd pigs/pick flowers". In ACB it made sense why you would sometimes sidestep your main quest to go help a courtesan or send recruits to distant lands because ultimately it was all contributing to the good fight.

I guess what I'm looking for is a balance... ACB was all about fighting the Borgia in every mission, and AC3 maybe swung back too far in the opposite direction with some of the Homestead missions. Surely there's a happy medium between "if it's not anti-Cesare, it's not worth doing" and "screw Charles Lee, of course I have time to travel 200 miles to fetch your silk ribbons". It's OK for the protagonist to have more than one important task at hand; the privateer contracts were a good example of this. Sure, they weren't directly tied to Connor's primary goal of defeating the Templars, but as a captain of his own ship, defending allies and merchant vessels along the coast made sense as something he would legitimately devote his time to while providing a break from the main story.

Soulid_Snake
05-22-2013, 10:58 PM
implying that ACB is miles ahead of RDR...

:(

assuming that you were talking about the open world games of 2010

Lol, that one slipped by me (BTW it is one of my favorite games), but I had other games in mind, like Prototype.

rob.davies2014
05-22-2013, 11:02 PM
I felt the justification for going through all of Ezio's memories was quite contrived. Fair enough that Ezio recalled the Monteriggioni siege when he saw the siege of Viana, but he wouldn't then recall everything that happened between Monteriggioni and his current state, especially since it spanned 7 or so years.

I also thought his outfit was ridiculous. It seemed like they just wanted to go for something they thought would look "awesome" without regard for practicality or stealth.

SixKeys
05-22-2013, 11:44 PM
I also thought his outfit was ridiculous. It seemed like they just wanted to go for something they thought would look "awesome" without regard for practicality or stealth.

To be fair, they've been doing that with every game since AC2.

rob.davies2014
05-23-2013, 12:32 PM
To be fair, they've been doing that with every game since AC2.

I don't think so, at least not as much as with ACB. Ezio's grey robes in Revelations suited an old traveller in the Middle East, Connor's military coat was appropriate for a country going through a military revolution and Edward's outfit doesn't stand out that much in the Caribbean which is filled with sailors, out-of-work soldiers and pirates.
I just don't GET what the Brotherhood robes are meant to be.

Assassin_M
05-23-2013, 12:39 PM
I don't think so, at least not as much as with ACB. Ezio's grey robes in Revelations suited an old traveller in the Middle East, Connor's military coat was appropriate for a country going through a military revolution and Edward's outfit doesn't stand out that much in the Caribbean which is filled with sailors, out-of-work soldiers and pirates.
I just don't GET what the Brotherhood robes are meant to be.
Renaissance clown gang banger...what`s worse, that outfit actually won an award

LoyalACFan
05-23-2013, 05:34 PM
Renaissance clown gang banger...what`s worse, that outfit actually won an award

It looks awesome when it's on a promo poster or something, but when you actually start playing, walk around the city and it looks absolutely absurd... blegh.

EarthlyStudio1
05-23-2013, 09:55 PM
Basically meaning not at all similar to my many other postings. I think I'll do what I want actually but thanks for the input chum.


And you're such a bastion of maturity? Try not mention casuals or imply people who like what you don't like are stupid for a whole day.

Wow. You are just incredibly immature, aren't you? How old are you?

souNdwAve89
05-24-2013, 12:18 AM
I don't think so, at least not as much as with ACB. Ezio's grey robes in Revelations suited an old traveller in the Middle East, Connor's military coat was appropriate for a country going through a military revolution and Edward's outfit doesn't stand out that much in the Caribbean which is filled with sailors, out-of-work soldiers and pirates.
I just don't GET what the Brotherhood robes are meant to be.

Agreed. I like the Brotherhood outfit, but the white was too flashy and bright for me. AC2 outfit was a good balance between keeping the Assassin tradition while making the outfit blend in the crowd. Ezio looked like any other civilian when he had his hood down (when you ignore the weapons and equipment, of course). The outfit in Revelations was fine because it was a good fit for the region. The color wasn't too bright and he blended with the general population quite well. I thought it looked awesome in the snowy areas such as in the CGI trailer and running around Masyaf. I thought Connor's outfit was perfect. It was a great balance between his western and Native American heritage. Edward's outfit is convincing for the time period since these are pirates after all. Most of their clothes are probably makeshift or salvaged goods and materials. I think the art department did a great job creating a pirate themed Assassin outfit.

TheHumanTowel
05-24-2013, 12:31 AM
Wow. You are just incredibly immature, aren't you? How old are you?
Old enuf for ur mum. pwned

EarthlyStudio1
05-24-2013, 05:25 PM
Old enuf for ur mum. pwned

Not really. You just justified that you're a little child even more.

generallsj
05-24-2013, 11:26 PM
The biggest thing was side missions. Unlike AC3 has that felt like a huge trash. No motivation to play again except dungeons and homestead(personally I do not big deal with navals). While no eye opening improvemnet in main plot(I could expect reversal since they ask Haytham to "bring honors"). They wasted huge open world environment with meaningless annoying underground mazes and still unfinished stupid trading game.

TheHumanTowel
05-24-2013, 11:36 PM
Not really. You just justified that you're a little child even more.
I'm 72 years old son. You should stop assuming people's ages to make yourself feel less inadequate.

Black_Widow9
05-24-2013, 11:42 PM
And you should both stop right now before you get handed an Infraction.

ProletariatPleb
05-24-2013, 11:44 PM
And you should both stop right now before you get handed an Infraction.
http://bangtees.com/image/cache/data/like_a_boss_500-500x500.png

i WiLL aM
05-25-2013, 11:41 AM
I bought brotherhood yesterday for £5. Haven't gotten very far into it yet, but it is already looking pretty good. Best £5 I've spent in a while :P

M_L2008
05-25-2013, 01:16 PM
I liked ACB the best myself as well. It added a new dimension to the game which I liked. The story was not as involved but it continued from before. I will admit though, I was sick of Enzio by the time that was over. I have played every AC multiple times except ACR. The story and the gameplay was nothing new. Not to mention, I blinked and ACR was over. AC3 was not great but I liked it. I think that the Tyranny of the King episodes were lame and a waste of money. I think that they are starting to add too many of the optional objectives to make the games challenging. A few optional objectives is ok but the amount that they had in AC3 just became a pain in the a@# more than challenging.
My ranking would be:
AC - because thats what made me love the games
ACB
AC2
AC3
ACR

I-Like-Pie45
05-25-2013, 04:12 PM
And you should both stop right now before you get handed an Infraction.
You know no one ever learns anything from a warning. Sure, it may seem to work in such cases as now but we all know that alas it just temporary and soon it will pop up again.

Were that you applied the US Forum Manager powers more liberally and more often, the forums would be a better place than it is today.

Seize power, restore the order that these Assassin loving dogs have so slanderingly spat on.

Tear it down, tear it all down!

Black_Widow9
05-26-2013, 12:02 AM
You know no one ever learns anything from a warning. Sure, it may seem to work in such cases as now but we all know that alas it just temporary and soon it will pop up again.

Were that you applied the US Forum Manager powers more liberally and more often, the forums would be a better place than it is today.

Seize power, restore the order that these Assassin loving dogs have so slanderingly spat on.

Tear it down, tear it all down!
Um.....
A. I'm not power hungry
B. Just because we don't tell everyone when we give out Infractions doesn't mean it isn't happening. We do work in the dark to serve the light.
C. I always like to give people a chance to correct their behavior before using the hammer.
D. I'm sorry the Forums aren't a "better place". :( We can't see everything all of the time so if you see something please report it.
E. The last two sentences are hilarious. :p

bveUSbve
05-27-2013, 04:34 PM
I don't think 'Brotherhood' is SO special. In my opinion it's just the second best within the Ezio-"Trilogy", whereas the significantly different game-formulas of AC(1) and ACIII from the outset don't appeal to my taste that well.

--

Rome: Maybe it's mainly for Italy and the Renaissance Epoch, but Constantinople in 'Revelations' really cannot keep up in architecture/atmosphere and "genius loci". (Though it's "nice" in its own way.)
Several of Rome's exceptional monuments were cleverly used as scenery for important events and for gameplay. Together with the countryside there is plenty of variation.

Story: Not so important to me. I agree that it could have been better. But what's supposed to be so great about ACIII's story I cannot fathom... (?)
On the other hand: Monteriggioni not only generally added nicely to the diversity of locations, in the past as well as in present day. It was also where originally done story elements took place - Desmond and Co. seeking refuge; Ezio coming home and then being dramatically cast out by Evil Borgia.
I also liked the present-day finale very much. Platforming all the way from the Collosseum to Minerva's "tomb", along the way sightseeing in the beautiful church (awesome in stereoscopic 3D! - sadly the only such location in 'Brotherhood'), activating the "tomb", shockingly stabbing Lucy to death... While it's questionable if all that makes much sense, it nevertheless was thrilling to do (for me anyway)! In no other installment did I like the Desmond bits nearly as much. (Well, in 'Revelations' and ACIII they are amongst the games' worst elements...)

Gameplay: Of course, as in ALL AC-games to date, there had been much room for improvement. And I didn't like the brotherhood-mechanics at all. But still - to me it was a good balance of adequately motivated exploration of the map, fun combat (no, to me ACIII's combat doesn't feel(!) better) and platforming. Not to forget the sometimes challenging Subject16-riddles. I also agree that even things like virtual combat-training added to my enjoyment.
Romulus-tombs and warmachine-missions mostly added interesting locations, variety and good fun. (For the fewer equivalents 'Revelations' had: in my opinion they generally were much weaker in all these respects.)

Music: No match to ACII's score. And it's more primitive integration was often noticable - no pauses between tracks whatsoever, tracks strictly linked to regions of the city/map, crude blending between these tracks when entering another region.
Nonetheless, the music was still very good and contributed almost throughout positively to the game's atmosphere. In my opinion the OSTs of 'Revelations' and ACIII are much more standard film-score, hardly anything unique or original in them.

AssassinHMS
05-27-2013, 05:35 PM
I don't think 'Brotherhood' is SO special. In my opinion it's just the second best within the Ezio-"Trilogy", whereas the significantly different game-formulas of AC(1) and ACIII from the outset don't appeal to my taste that well.

--

Rome: Maybe it's mainly for Italy and the Renaissance Epoch, but Constantinople in 'Revelations' really cannot keep up in architecture/atmosphere and "genius loci". (Though it's "nice" in its own way.)
Several of Rome's exceptional monuments were cleverly used as scenery for important events and for gameplay. Together with the countryside there is plenty of variation.

Story: Not so important to me. I agree that it could have been better. But what's supposed to be so great about ACIII's story I cannot fathom... (?)
On the other hand: Monteriggioni not only generally added nicely to the diversity of locations, in the past as well as in present day. It was also where originally done story elements took place - Desmond and Co. seeking refuge; Ezio coming home and then being dramatically cast out by Evil Borgia.
I also liked the present-day finale very much. Platforming all the way from the Collosseum to Minerva's "tomb", along the way sightseeing in the beautiful church (awesome in stereoscopic 3D! - sadly the only such location in 'Brotherhood'), activating the "tomb", shockingly stabbing Lucy to death... While it's questionable if all that makes much sense, it nevertheless was thrilling to do (for me anyway)! In no other installment did I like the Desmond bits nearly as much. (Well, in 'Revelations' and ACIII they are amongst the games' worst elements...)

Gameplay: Of course, as in ALL AC-games to date, there had been much room for improvement. And I didn't like the brotherhood-mechanics at all. But still - to me it was a good balance of adequately motivated exploration of the map, fun combat (no, to me ACIII's combat doesn't feel(!) better) and platforming. Not to forget the sometimes challenging Subject16-riddles. I also agree that even things like virtual combat-training added to my enjoyment.
Romulus-tombs and warmachine-missions mostly added interesting locations, variety and good fun. (For the fewer equivalents 'Revelations' had: in my opinion they generally were much weaker in all these respects.)

Music: No match to ACII's score. And it's more primitive integration was often noticable - no pauses between tracks whatsoever, tracks strictly linked to regions of the city/map, crude blending between these tracks when entering another region.
Nonetheless, the music was still very good and contributed almost throughout positively to the game's atmosphere. In my opinion the OSTs of 'Revelations' and ACIII are much more standard film-score, hardly anything unique or original in them.

Agreed. There's a lot of ACB bashing going around for some reason, but what is really absurd is that there are a lot of people saying AC3 was the best. Even for a casual game AC3 is bad and it's by far the weakest of the series.

Assassin_M
05-27-2013, 08:59 PM
Agreed. There's a lot of ACB bashing going around for some reason, but what is really absurd is that there are a lot of people saying AC3 was the best. Even for a casual game AC3 is bad and it's by far the weakest of the series.
So...you`re saying it`s weird that people are bashing ACB, but okay to bash AC III?? going to the point of even saying it is absurd to call it the best....

lol you`re funny..

Assassin_M
05-27-2013, 08:59 PM
But what's supposed to be so great about ACIII's story I cannot fathom...
AT LEAST....it has moral ambiguity....

poptartz20
05-27-2013, 09:14 PM
Haha... M you're a funny guy! :D

AssassinHMS
05-27-2013, 09:43 PM
So...you`re saying it`s weird that people are bashing ACB, but okay to bash AC III?? going to the point of even saying it is absurd to call it the best....

lol you`re funny..

I got my inspiration from:

There's a lot of AC3-bashing going around for some reason, but what really baffles me is that a lot of people are saying Brotherhood was the best...? Not hating on anyone who believes this, but I'm just curious as to what you think made it so good, because IMO it was the weakest of the series.

I guess you find him funny too?
Not hating on anyone who believes AC3 is the best...

Assassin_M
05-27-2013, 09:52 PM
I got my inspiration from:


I guess you find him funny too?
Not hating on anyone who believes AC3 is the best...
ACB is factually bad, though...there`s no opinions involved...it IS the weakest of the series...

Hahaha this is hilarious xD joking, angry boy :P

Rugterwyper32
05-27-2013, 09:58 PM
As an AC game, AC3 is my third least favorite in the series. Just looking at it from how sheer fun I find it, though, it's actually my favorite. Story-wise it's my second favorite, right behind AC1. It has flaws, sure, but man do I have a fun time playing it.
Upon replay, I found AC:B to be my second favorite in fun factor but least favorite in story and second least favorite as an AC game. AC:B does a lot of things right, namely atmosphere and sidequests. In fact, I've grown to like calling it "Sidequests: The game" because that's where the most fun content in the game lies.

AssassinHMS
05-27-2013, 10:05 PM
ACB is factually bad, though...there`s no opinions involved...it IS the weakest of the series...

Hahaha this is hilarious xD joking, angry boy :P

In terms of story? Maybe (because there's no moral ambiguity). But, in terms of gameplay, it beats AC3 anyday. AC3 is ok for a casual game but it is, factually, a bad assassin's creed game and therefore the weakest of the series...

Angry? Lol...you're funny.

poptartz20
05-27-2013, 10:09 PM
ACB was terribly unrememberable seriously, it was the shortest in the series it's what people like to say a "Polished" version of AC2 why in the hell would I want a polished version of the same game that takes place all in one area when previous game gave you multiple locations. You could walk horses into the towns and you got a brotherhood? Really not that I hated it for but I can't say it wasnt the best at all... it didn't try anything innovative or new.

it falls way short on my list. at least Revelations took you to cool places.

Megas_Doux
05-28-2013, 03:17 AM
Agreed. There's a lot of ACB bashing going around for some reason, but what is really absurd is that there are a lot of people saying AC3 was the best. Even for a casual game AC3 is bad and it's by far the weakest of the series.

To me:

Bland city! It was like if Firenze and Toscana had a VERY BIG and ugly baby, best landmarks in the series, though.
Terrible story!!!! The antagonist crew of the Austin Powers films is more "serious" than ACB´s.
Combat is utter easy!!!!! I have tried to be killed, and endep up, literally, failing at it.
It has my least favorite score in the series.
Vittoria Agli Assassini!!!
GUAAAAAAAAARDS!!

In fact, I dare to say that ACB is the "most" casual AC game in the series! Mostly because its disney channel in the morning story and kiddy combat! I fail to understand how in the world it has better user reviews than even ACI

montagemik
05-28-2013, 04:02 AM
AC-B is simply the conclusion /second half of what was intended as the AC-2 Story ............So i can't really judge it as a stand alone title myself . (AC-2 only seemed like half the story anyway)

I expected nothing more than they previewed for AC-B or any major innovations & wasn't really dissapointed by the finished game ....

So it's not that i found AC-B to be a 'Great' game , but overall it's one that dissapointed me far less than others.

Assassin_M
05-28-2013, 06:17 AM
it's one that dissapointed me far less than others.
lol

shobhit7777777
05-28-2013, 06:56 AM
Special?

1. The brotherhood was one addition that actually added to the Assassin universe more so than naval battles, buying shops and carving wooden barrels
2. The concept of a proper Assassin-Templar war in the for of taking back Rome and rebuilding it was a pretty engaging narrative especially since it tied into gameplay
3. Kill streaks
4. The Borgia towers being mini assassin sandboxes

IMO it was a better 'Assassin' game than AC3, and IMO a better game overall

Now if only they could shoehorn in AC3's animations into ACB.....or ACR.....

montagemik
05-28-2013, 07:36 AM
lol



Oooops I must've stated a personal opinion that differs from supposed Divine fact .

Hard to keep track of which games we're permitted to like & dislike in this series..............

Assassin_M
05-28-2013, 07:44 AM
LOL ?? .............LOL ..... Oooops I must've stated a personal opinion that differs from supposed Divine fact .

Hard to keep track of which games we're permitted to like & dislike in this series. :rolleyes:
Calm your tits, I loled as in "that`s legit funny"

I found it humorous and it`s not because you like ACB, but the phrase itself was funny..If I wanted to ridicule, i`d have done a better job

montagemik
05-28-2013, 07:52 AM
Calm your tits, I loled as in "that`s legit funny"

I found it humorous and it`s not because you like ACB, but the phrase itself was funny..If I wanted to ridicule, i`d have done a better job

I didn't give an angry response , i gave a sarcastic one. ;)

Assassin_M
05-28-2013, 07:58 AM
I didn't give an angry response , i gave a sarcastic one. ;)
and?

TheHumanTowel
05-28-2013, 10:29 AM
ACB's modern day story puts ACR and AC3's no effort crap to shame. The historical story, while not as good as AC2 or AC3, I enjoyed far more than ACR's meandering unfocused excuse to drag Ezio yet again. And honestly ACBs story was better paced than AC3's. The side-missions are where ACB shines. The variety and quality of content is just great. ACR has a laughable number of side-missions half of which you can't access without doing that incredibly boring recruitment minigame that ACB introduced. AC3's side-missions, though there is a lot of them, are worse than ACB's because the majority of them have absolutely nothing to do with the core gameplay of the series. I couldn't give a **** about naval or the homestead

AssassinHMS
05-28-2013, 10:38 AM
Bland city! It was like if Firenze and Toscana had a VERY BIG and ugly baby, best landmarks in the series, though.

To me it was one of the most beautiful cities I've seen in AC and the atmosphere was great with the superb music and all the mysteries that were waiting to be discovered.


Terrible story!!!! The antagonist crew of the Austin Powers films is more "serious" than ACB´s.

Just because a story doesn't have moral ambiguity does it mean it is terrible? What if Cesare and the rest of his crew were actually like that? There are many coward people drowned in power and greed that are exactly like him. If anything you may think Cesare was a terrible individual but blame the story for that doesn't seem right.



Combat is utter easy!!!!! I have tried to be killed, and endep up, literally, failing at it.

Combat is even easier in AC3 where, even though it takes less to die, it's much harder to fail a block since the counter window is huge, while in ACB it was easy to be injured while working on a kill streak (not to mention you couldn't block a spear attack with a sword). Try the combat animus training where you can’t get injured and you’ll see.


It has my least favorite score in the series.
Vittoria Agli Assassini!!!
GUAAAAAAAAARDS!!


This is nothing compared to what the game has to offer. How can you ignore everything else and focus on these tiny details? If you can’t enjoy the game as much because of a few lines out of place or because the villains are evil then it’s your fault and not ACB’s. Just read the two following posts:

Good selection of side content focused on the core pillars.


The most fun part of AC2 was the amount of side content and ACB expanded on that. The story may have been shorter, but with 100% sync it took me longer to finish the game than AC1 and AC2 combined, so in my mind it had an epic length. Above all it was fun. I got to rejoin many of my favorite characters from AC2 again, Rome was a great city with a surprising amount of variety, the combat was easy as hell but also the most enjoyable system the series has ever had. Glyph puzzles returned, full sync objectives offered replayability, there was a great soundtrack and I liked running around fixing Rome. The game didn't feel much different from AC2 but was more polished in the details. The multiplayer was fantastic, its evolutions in the later games have never been able to top the first one.

In short, what was special about ACB was the wealth of content, addictive multiplayer and polishing the best features of AC2.



In fact, I dare to say that ACB is the "most" casual AC game in the series! Mostly because its disney channel in the morning story and kiddy combat! I fail to understand how in the world it has better user reviews than even ACI

I also agree that, as an assassin’s creed game, AC1 is a little better (in terms of open ended assassinations) but if you want to know why ACB is so good read other posts from people who talk openly about the game or you could play it yourself after accepting the fact that the villains are villains and there are a few lines out of place.

SixKeys
05-28-2013, 09:20 PM
I also agree that, as an assassin’s creed game, AC1 is a little better (in terms of open ended assassinations) but if you want to know why ACB is so good read other posts from people who talk openly about the game or you could play it yourself after accepting the fact that the villains are villains and there are a few lines out of place.

He won't listen. He'll bring his ACB hate even to threads that have nothing whatsoever to do with ACB.

Assassin_M
05-28-2013, 09:22 PM
To me it was one of the most beautiful cities I've seen in AC and the atmosphere was great with the superb music and all the mysteries that were waiting to be discovered.
To me it was the most bland city ever. even blander than NY and boston, which is saying something..


Just because a story doesn't have moral ambiguity does it mean it is terrible? What if Cesare and the rest of his crew were actually like that? There are many coward people drowned in power and greed that are exactly like him. If anything you may think Cesare was a terrible individual but blame the story for that doesn't seem right.
Just because a game doesn't have AC I`s freedom or core mechanics doesn't mean it`s a terrible game:rolleyes: The facts is, AC I presented moral ambiguity and it raised questions, throughout the narrative, it became engaing..what will they say next?? when the games reverts to Cartoon Network villains and characters, then it becomes terrible..Cesare was a genius general in real life...we only saw that ONCE and the rest of the he was screaming "GUARDS". they made Cesare as this equal rival to Ezio who Cesare respects as an enemy, but that was not what we saw..Ezio bested him in EVERY turn..EVERY TURN and Cesare never had ANY respect for Ezio..he insulted his family during their final battle..he always ran away screaming "GUARDS" and Bartolomeo...This guy was another Tactical man...he wasn't a genius, but he was smart, but the game showed him an ogre-headed buffoon, all to put Ezio in the spotlight..

You like ACB`s story? OK


Combat is even easier in AC3 where, even though it takes less to die, it's much harder to fail a block since the counter window is huge, while in ACB it was easy to be injured while working on a kill streak (not to mention you couldn't block a spear attack with a sword). Try the combat animus training where you can’t get injured and you’ll see.
It`s literally impossible to die in ACB, while you CAN die in AC III...sure they`re both easy as bricks, but at least you can die when you leave the controller for a while




This is nothing compared to what the game has to offer. How can you ignore everything else and focus on these tiny details? If you can’t enjoy the game as much because of a few lines out of place or because the villains are evil then it’s your fault and not ACB’s.
That`s called writing. It was cheesy and it showed how crappy the Assassin ideology came from this secret sect to a street gang...I hated it

Yeah..

BATISTABUS
05-28-2013, 09:32 PM
I agree with M.

Cesare was a complete waste of potential. There was an obvious path for a strong dynamic between him and Ezio. Despite the fact that he was an incestuous bastard, he was a strategic mastermind, and could easily have showcased his Templar ideology in a compelling way (considering how successful he was). Even though you'd have no choice but to hate him, admitting that the cold-hearted bastard may have a point is the heart of Assassin's Creed. I did like Bartolomeo for what he was, but I agree that they dumbed him down too much.

As for the combat, ACB has HANDS-DOWN the easiest combat of the entire series. Once you counter, you can chain-kill infinitely. Nobody is going to shoot you, nobody is going to block you, and nobody is going to surprise attack you.

While Rome is pretty crappy looking (mostly on purpose), there were enough landmarks for me not to find it bland. While it's not my favorite AC city, I wouldn't say its the worst. The music was quite fantastic.

For me, what set Brotherhood apart from the rest of the AC games before it was the multiplayer. I've rarely had as much fun with a multiplayer experience since.

Assassin_M
05-28-2013, 09:34 PM
For me, what set Brotherhood apart from the rest of the AC games before it was the multiplayer. I've rarely had as much fun with a multiplayer experience since.
Multiplayer and great side quests...only MP i ever played was ACB`s....

Megas_Doux
05-29-2013, 02:49 AM
He won't listen. He'll bring his ACB hate even to threads that have nothing whatsoever to do with ACB.

Like this one.......


And as batisaurus said, Cesare Borgia was a great general, skilled at fighting and strategy, however if you see his potrayal in ACB, welll............... In terms of combat, the game is way easier than any other in the franchise, do not get me wrong, ACIII is easy, but you can die...

In terms of its general campaign ACB has some very solid missions like killing the banker, of the Dattle of viana! But, to me, it is the game in which I enjoy the least to freeroam, which is a very top in every Ac´s "wish list", along with the story, characters and general atmosphere.......
"
My humble opinion.

bveUSbve
05-29-2013, 08:35 AM
Moral ambiguity is overrated.

Seriously, I admit that ACIII had some moral ambiguity and this quality in itself tends to be a good thing. But I don't think that the assassins-vs-templars conflict really needs it.

Because in AC the assassins ALWAYS have been fundamentally motivated by ethically "good" principles: they value individual freedom and an individuals own responsibility.
Whereas the templars ALWAYS have been motivated by "bad" ideology: some secret group of people believes itself entitled to manipulate and control the rest of mankind. Of course, while primarily striving for personal power and wealth, the templars at the top, being no simpletons (mostly), fool their followers and themselves with reasoning of why manipulating and controlling the rest of mankind is in the best interest of everyone...

However, in my opinion the moral ambiguity in ACIII isn't convincing. Haytham - in the game; the accompanying book really is quite different in this regard! - may have some debatable ideals, but it is questionable if they are in line with those of the templar order in general, and in any case, his actions without doubt reveal him as a cynical and arrogant bastard. Not much subtlety to be found here, I'm afraid.
Connor isn't morally ambiguous at all. He is an idealistic but naive fool.

ProletariatPleb
05-29-2013, 08:52 AM
Moral ambiguity is overrated.

Seriously, I admit that ACIII had some moral ambiguity and this quality in itself tends to be a good thing. But I don't think that the assassins-vs-templars conflict really needs it.

Because in AC the assassins ALWAYS have been fundamentally motivated by ethically "good" principles: they value individual freedom and an individuals own responsibility.
Whereas the templars ALWAYS have been motivated by "bad" ideology: some secret group of people believes itself entitled to manipulate and control the rest of mankind. Of course, while primarily striving for personal power and wealth, the templars at the top, being no simpletons (mostly), fool their followers and themselves with reasoning of why manipulating and controlling the rest of mankind is in the best interest of everyone...

However, in my opinion the moral ambiguity in ACIII isn't convincing. Haytham - in the game; the accompanying book really is quite different in this regard! - may have some debatable ideals, but it is questionable if they are in line with those of the templar order in general, and in any case, his actions without doubt reveal him as a cynical and arrogant bastard. Not much subtlety to be found here, I'm afraid.
Connor isn't morally ambiguous at all. He is an idealistic but naive fool.

http://i.imgur.com/jBQsZsU.jpg

shobhit7777777
05-29-2013, 09:08 AM
ACB is factually badP

Good lord...I didn't know such a paradox could ever be even constructed.

M...you trolling bro?

Although, I must say that ACB also raised my blood pressure and regularly put me into rage mode for the absolute BS detection parameters, over the top nonsense like DaVinci's tank and plane segments and the narrative steeping into bat guano insanity.

While the game did add some cool things....it also spearheaded the series's progression into the BS zone....which PEAKS at AC3. So while I raged about ACB as well (IIRC) and ACR...when put against AC3....a lot of their features stand out and put the games in a positive light


Overall....The franchise has always needed to sort out stealth, AI and mission design.....it needs a serious kick in the ***...it needs to bring aboard a team of badass designers and sort this stuff out. Its time that the franchise grew artistically with regards to gameplay than just technical tweaks.

innovashun!

Assassin_M
05-29-2013, 10:46 AM
M...you trolling bro?


You purposely deleted where it says i`m trolling :|

I demand you requote my post properly...

montagemik
05-29-2013, 11:28 AM
He won't listen. He'll bring his ACB hate even to threads that have nothing whatsoever to do with ACB.


LOL , So many AC fans supposedly hated This & That in AC-2 / AC-B /AC-R ............ Makes you wonder why they kept buying games in a series they think became continually worse or easier as it went on.

There's plenty i disliked in the Ezio years & AC-3 .........But if i was as displeased as some people seem to be with past AC games , I Wouldn't still be playing the 5th in the series & doubtful i'd have even played the ezio trilogy in full.

Next year we'll all be slating Indians or Pirates & a bigger list of reasons why the AC series sucks most likely , before we settle into hype for AC-5 .

shobhit7777777
05-29-2013, 12:29 PM
You purposely deleted where it says i`m trolling :|

I demand you requote my post properly...

Where?

luckyto
05-29-2013, 04:37 PM
Brotherhood is, in my opinion, the worst of the series because it's environment became very monotonous, the map was small, the story was short and cliche', and the combat was ridiculously easy. AC3 was better for me in almost every way. But if I were to break it down objectively.

ACB was polished. It had a much smaller scope. It was able to reuse many elements from AC2. And because it was smaller in scope, Ubisoft was able to polish and test the game and story missions to perfection before the one-year release. Brotherhood was completely bug free, and the story missions were welll-tested and the pacing of the whole game worked. Even though the combat was easy and lacked depth, it was still fun. (though personally, I'd rather prefer a fight with 20 guards lasted more than 30 seconds.) ACB = Small Scope = Polish

ACR was slightly bigger in scope, but with almost entirely new set of assets. The map size was also much more complex and about 50% larger. Ubisoft also introduced new untested mechanics - some worked and some not so much. They also carried over Brotherhood's combat with a slight modification to make it difficult - which instead just made it frustrtating. The result was a game that was a mixed bag, some of it was polished and some mechanics were in dire need of reworking. Some story missions worked great, and others were too short or just not done. ACR = Medium Scope = Mixed Bag

AC3 was the complete opposite of ACB. The creative vision for AC3 was EPIC. Unfortunately, it was too epic for the time they had allotted to complete the game. The result is huge but empty maps, story missions which were buggy and glitchy or just not finished. The basic mechanics were rock solid - the combat, the tree-climbing, the story premise --- Ubisoft just didn't have the time to execute that vision properly. AC3 = Epic Scope = Unpolished and Buggy.

This is why you have the divergence in fan bases. One group of fans simply plays the story one-time and judges the game by its pacing, polish and presentation. Another group looks at these worlds as a place to explore and to free roam, a place to go pick random fights and have epic chases with the story being secondary. Group A would prefer ACB - I mean - it's perfect. Small and easy, but spot-free and smooth. Group B would absolutely prefer AC3 - because the fighting is so much more in-depth, the maps are much bigger and there is simply so much more to explore; but the story missions are disappointing.

The other divergence is simply taste in environments. Rome over Constantinople over Colonial America. Admittedly, colonial New York isn't the most exciting place. Especially when there really isn't much to do there. Let's face it, you aren't walking into the Parthenon.

AC2 actually did EVERYTHING right. Big maps. Engaging combat. Polish. Presentation. Variety of interesting locales. And that's why it is the only one to be remembered as a "must play" in this generations list of games.

Also - that's why AC4 has a chance. It seems to have the right mix of exotic locales and hopefully each will be as big as Florence, but perhaps not as immense as Boston. It will port over the AC3's combat - which is the best since AC1. It has a fully tested naval battle mechanic that can only get better. They will also be able to take advantage of previous games' assets to speed development and give them time for testing other areas. The open seas will give it lots of room for those of us who like to explore. The only question that remains is will they have a good story and will the missions be well developed? If they nail that down, we will have the best game since AC2.

That's my thoughts.


---

montagemik
05-29-2013, 05:20 PM
AC2 actually did EVERYTHING right. Big maps. Engaging combat. Polish. Presentation. Variety of interesting locales. And that's why it is the only one to be remembered as a "must play" in this generations list of games.

---


Yep , I was thrilled with the 2 sequential DNA segments being cut from the game & sold as DLC separately, & Replaying missions after 100% completion was another highlight they perfected for AC-2.

luckyto
05-29-2013, 05:35 PM
Yep , I was thrilled with the 2 sequential DNA segments being cut from the game & sold as DLC separately, & Replaying missions after 100% completion was another highlight they perfected for AC-2.

Honestly, without those 2 DNA segments, the game and story was larger than any of its successors. And by leaving them out, the DLC actually meant something. Which is not true for any of the DLC released since then. AC2's DLC begged to be played. I never even finished ACB's DLC out of sheer boredom and complete irrelevance to the storyline. Tyranny of King Washington is a alter-universe that isn't appealling either -- especially when they sold a game that wasn't finished in the first place.

And so what it didn't allow you to replay missions? I mean, that would be a nice value added feature. But it's just that. It's like having poppy seeds on your hamburger bun, or sprinkled parsley on your pasta for color. It's a nice added touch. But it's not as important as the actual dish itself. By itself, it's virtually worthless.

If you want to nitpick, go ahead. AC2 beats its successors at just about everything hands down - and almost all critics and the and general gaming populace agree. People can either try to understand why that impression exists, or they can stick to their own narrow mindset.

ProletariatPleb
05-29-2013, 05:37 PM
Yes well AC2 made the game from niche to lamestream so naturally all the 'general gaming populance' agrees.

Rendyoflesh
05-29-2013, 05:39 PM
ACB was good and required thinking. But I have no idea why you nostalgic losers are still discussing this game. Still suprised your here infact. I guess hooded killers are the new in thing go figure.


Move onto a better stealth action series that takes skill to play n00bs.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMAMkHNQgU6bJsbdA1hDXjndW0-etPhj4gGwOXuDBNlGFnsLrA

ProletariatPleb
05-29-2013, 05:48 PM
ACB was good and required thinking. But I have no idea why you nostalgic losers are still discussing this game. Still suprised your here infact. I guess hooded killers are the new in thing go figure.


Move onto a better stealth action series that takes skill to play n00bs.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTMAMkHNQgU6bJsbdA1hDXjndW0-etPhj4gGwOXuDBNlGFnsLrA

Nostalgic losers? Hey guys didn't the last proper MGS game come out in 2008?

Rendyoflesh
05-29-2013, 05:57 PM
Nostalgic losers? Hey guys didn't the last proper MGS game come out in 2008?

MGS 5 and Phantom Pain from a Director who actually gives a **** about the fanbase. Hell even added a New engine they made

Theres nothing wrong with this whether it be a prequel. Still better then Assassins creed IV ***gots of the Carribean by Jewbisoft.

luckyto
05-29-2013, 06:03 PM
Yes well AC2 made the game from niche to lamestream so naturally all the 'general gaming populance' agrees.

AC1 is actually my favorite. Then AC2, AC3, ACR, and ACB. So I'm not particularly mainstream in my preference. I loved AC3, and most people slam it. But I think most of the criticisms against each games are generally fair. I understand why each one has its complaints, and I can see where the drawbacks in each installment exist. It's just that what I value in a game might outweigh the criticism.

To me, combat is king and free roam are king. And I could give a **** less if I can replay a story mission or one guard happened to hover mid-air one time out of a thousand. If the core mechanics of fighting and free-running are good and I've got room to explore, that means much more to me. But that's my value system - and I do recognize that each game has its flaws and other games may place more weight on other elements. AC2 is the only one to do them all very well, and that's why it gets the highest marks.

montagemik
05-29-2013, 06:08 PM
Honestly, without those 2 DNA segments, the game and story was larger than any of its successors. And by leaving them out, the DLC actually meant something. Which is not true for any of the DLC released since then. AC2's DLC begged to be played. I never even finished ACB's DLC out of sheer boredom and complete irrelevance to the storyline. Tyranny of King Washington is a alter-universe that isn't appealling either -- especially when they sold a game that wasn't finished in the first place.

And so what it didn't allow you to replay missions? I mean, that would be a nice value added feature. But it's just that. It's like having poppy seeds on your hamburger bun, or sprinkled parsley on your pasta for color. It's a nice added touch. But it's not as important as the actual dish itself. By itself, it's virtually worthless.

If you want to nitpick, go ahead. AC2 beats its successors at just about everything hands down - and almost all critics and the and general gaming populace agree. People can either try to understand why that impression exists, or they can stick to their own narrow mindset.


LOL - Don't blame me Lucky - You said AC-2 did EVERYTHING perfectly ,

DLC became meaningful (you say) YES because the main story had us following DNA sequences ,.......... CUTS TWO in sequence ........Continues with a Beard years later .

But you later claim AC-B & AC3 DLC was irrelevant to the story ................ Location of the temple /Davinci dissapearance (yeh ok ) ............ TOKW / Washingtons apple (unknown if relevant to AC-4 or future games)

Perhaps AC-B & AC-3 should've cut some DNA sequences near the end of the game - & use them as 'meaningful' DLC after launch.

Mission replay at the Time of AC-2's release 'was not an added bonus - sprinkles on your Bun kind of feature' (seriously ) .............Mission replays were pretty much Standard inclusions in the game industry at that time, even AC 1 managed it. (xbox & PS2 games also)


I'm not 'nitpicking' lucky - I'm just not wearing rose coloured glasses , that's all.

luckyto
05-29-2013, 06:12 PM
Touche' - I did say "perfect." Point. I concede, sir.

though I like my hamburger bun reference...... it was a nice touch. i must be hungry. is it lunch?

ProletariatPleb
05-29-2013, 06:16 PM
MGS 5 and Phantom Pain from a Director who actually gives a **** about the fanbase. Hell even added a New engine they made

Theres nothing wrong with this whether it be a prequel. Still better then Assassins creed IV ***gots of the Carribean by Jewbisoft.
Agreed, but nothing wrong with discussing a game is there?

ze_topazio
05-29-2013, 06:48 PM
Metal Gear Solid series by now is divided in to Solid Snake games and Big Boss games, so V is not really a prequel, it's a Big Boss sequel.

Assassin_M
05-29-2013, 09:03 PM
Where?
like I said, requote that post again, you bum :|

Bashilir
05-29-2013, 10:18 PM
"What's so special about ACB?" Nothing. People just like seeing sexy Ezio. The fan art online scares me.


http://th09.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2009/356/a/b/Ezio_has_different_plans_by_Destinyfall.jpg

SixKeys
05-29-2013, 11:35 PM
Those robes are from AC2, though.

Megas_Doux
05-29-2013, 11:41 PM
ACB is a very "love/hate" game for me! The Da Vinci´s machines missions are awesome, Pax Romana is a great closing, despite Cesare Borgis being a wuss, killing the banker is a very pretty AC1ish and so on.

But I cant stand the disney in the morning story, its bland city and "poor" atmosphere.

Tyrhydion
06-02-2013, 03:53 PM
I also liked ACB the most, but AC3 comes in second for me. The only annoying thing about them is the synch score. This makes AC2 win bronze on my list. It is very enjoyable without the optional objectives.

I loathe AC and ACR, the one for its poor design and odd controls, the other for the horrible colour scheme. the odd pointless story and for being a blueprint of ACB. ACR is the only game I havent played through because it is just too boring for me.

montagemik
06-02-2013, 04:35 PM
I also liked ACB the most, but AC3 comes in second for me. The only annoying thing about them is the synch score. This makes AC2 win bronze on my list. It is very enjoyable without the optional objectives.

I loathe AC and ACR, the one for its poor design and odd controls, the other for the horrible colour scheme. the odd pointless story and for being a blueprint of ACB. ACR is the only game I havent played through because it is just too boring for me.


AC-R was actually my preffered incarnation of Ezio .
Given that AC-B was initially intended as an AC-2 DLC & AC-R was intended as a DS spin-off , I can't really call either Bad or horrible .

Tyrhydion
06-02-2013, 05:01 PM
AC-R was actually my preffered incarnation of Ezio .
Given that AC-B was initially intended as an AC-2 DLC & AC-R was intended as a DS spin-off , I can't really call either Bad or horrible .


Although AC-R resembles AC-B a lot and I really loved almost everything about AC-B, I am not able to warm up with AC-R and stay motivated to play it. I started to play AC-R back in December and only made it to Memory Block 3, since then I have done nothing, and every attempt to restart the game goes bust because as I said before it's boring.

Maybe it's just a matter of taste and it's just those dark colours unlike in AC-2 and AC-B which keep me away from this game. Or the almost unreadable map of Constantinople, or maybe it's just because you do basically the same as in AC-B but without a binding meaningful story but with the extra bomb crafting. Not sure. I am gonna give it a try again, but until now I just don't enjoy it like I enjoyed the other games of the series (except for the AC(1) which I found horrible and I will never play again, it's looks like a failure or a prototype which I would have never bought if it wasn't for the fun of AC-2).

On the other hand, AC-B really looks like a (very well manufactured) add-on of AC-2. AC-R doesn't, but that doesn't make it original either imho.

But the thread is about AC-3 bashing by AC-B fans, and I for one have no point in bashing AC-3 for the sake of AC-B. I love both (basically, with some objections).

Megas_Doux
06-02-2013, 05:11 PM
I love freeroaming in Istanbul, most gorgeous city in the series!

Tyrhydion
06-02-2013, 05:48 PM
I love Istanbul too, and I was looking forward to playing AC-R. But it doesn't feel "right". Dunno. Rome feels more authentic to me with Ezio. Or it's too much of the same gameplay with AC-R. It could have been better for me if Yusuf was the main character in AC-R and he got taught by Ezio, the grandmaster and not the way it actually is. It doesn't make sense for me having Ezio in Constantinople.

montagemik
06-02-2013, 05:55 PM
1 # I started to play AC-R back in December and only made it to Memory Block 3, since then I have done nothing, and every attempt to restart the game goes bust because as I said before it's boring.

2 # Maybe it's just a matter of taste and it's just those dark colours unlike in AC-2 and AC-B which keep me away from this game. Or the almost unreadable map of Constantinople,
you do basically the same as in AC-B but without a binding meaningful story .

3 # Not sure. I am gonna give it a try again, but until now I just don't enjoy it like I enjoyed the other games of the series (except for the AC(1) which I found horrible and I will never play again, it's looks like a failure or a prototype which I would have never bought if it wasn't for the fun of AC-2).

4 # On the other hand, AC-B really looks like a (very well manufactured) add-on of AC-2. AC-R doesn't, but that doesn't make it original either imho.




1 # = Not much of the AC-R game actually played to base an informed opinion of the whole game then really.

2 # = Not sure which 'Dark colours you mean - Ezio gets lighter / white coloured outfits in AC-R - Constantinople itself is fairly colourful & we must've been using different maps for Constantinople - looked perfectly readable to me.
And you've no idea how meaningful or binding the story is - you haven't played it to be fair.

3 # = Playing a series in a reverse or jumbled order gives a strange impression - perhaps arcadey/cartoonish ezio was just more accessible. AC 1 was years before AC-2 , but honestly equally if not more beautiful in many aspects to AC-2 /AC-B & AC-R (certainly better horses than AC3 lol )

4 # = But that opinion of AC-R is based on 3 memory blocks played in all fairness.

;)

lothario-da-be
06-02-2013, 05:57 PM
I love freeroaming in Istanbul, most gorgeous city in the series!
This, i hope Havana will have a similar feeling but more alive, like New york and Boston.

Tyrhydion
06-02-2013, 06:14 PM
1 # = Not much of the AC-R game actually played to base an informed opinion of the whole game then really.

2 # = Not sure which 'Dark colours you mean - Ezio gets lighter / white coloured outfits in AC-R - Constantinople itself is fairly colourful & we must've been using different maps for Constantinople - looked perfectly readable to me.
And you've no idea how meaningful or binding the story is - you haven't played it to be fair.

3 # = Playing a series in a reverse or jumbled order gives a strange impression - perhaps arcadey/cartoonish ezio was just more accessible. AC 1 was years before AC-2 , but honestly equally if not more beautiful in many aspects to AC-2 /AC-B & AC-R (certainly better horses than AC3 lol )

4 # = But that opinion of AC-R is based on 3 memory blocks played in all fairness.

;)


I am so sorry for being so poorly informed about AC-R. Maybe just maybe if I could find the strength to carry on with this game, which I couldn't so far, I might change my poor opinion.

As for the colours, I mean the display when loading. I thought it looked very fresh and modern with the bright white and red scheme and clear maps in AC2 and ACB, but in AC-R, they chose a very dark scheme, which looks apocalyptic and uncomfortable to me, inspite of Constantinople being über-colourful.

Thumps up for the AC horse riding. Still, it was very upwinding playing AC, since I ended up in endless open conflicts when exploring the maps, which was pretty pointless and the graphics mostly sucked. I think when we can have computer-generated movies since almost 20 years, than there is hardly an excuse for poor graphics in video games of 2008. (I hope E3 reveals something about graphics development on XBOX ONE, because I am less than impressed by what was shown at the XBOX ONE presentation so far in terms of visualizations).

Farlander1991
06-02-2013, 06:16 PM
(certainly better horses than AC3 lol )

They were still horrible.

bveUSbve
06-02-2013, 06:20 PM
I can't "love" ACIII's Istanbul. I see that it is lively and has its architecturally nice quarters and some especially picturesque places. But it fails to impress me.
This (for me) is totally different with Rome, although I will agree that some of the criticism regarding Rome's "blandness" is valid.

Apart from story and gameplay reasons, I guess it also has to do with the cultural background of it all. But since I don't want to get into political debates, I'll leave it at that.

Assassin_M
06-02-2013, 09:52 PM
I can't "love" ACIII's Istanbul. I see that it is lively and has its architecturally nice quarters and some especially picturesque places. But it fails to impress me.
This (for me) is totally different with Rome, although I will agree that some of the criticism regarding Rome's "blandness" is valid.

Apart from story and gameplay reasons, I guess it also has to do with the cultural background of it all. But since I don't want to get into political debates, I'll leave it at that.
Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

I should enjoy killing Red Coats then...heh

shobhit7777777
06-03-2013, 12:52 AM
like I said, requote that post again, you bum :|

Dude really...all I found was this:


AC3 was an abomination....Connor's lack of interest in the opposite sex and his boorish mug have soured the experience for me which is isn't saying much since the game itself was born out a violent diarrhoea episode at Ubisoft...*sigh*

Assassin_M
06-03-2013, 12:53 AM
Dude really...all I found was this:
that definitely sounds like something i would post

shobhit7777777
06-03-2013, 01:06 AM
that definitely sounds like something i would post

It is what it is.

Tautology is a *****

So is sarcasm..

Did you say the following as a satirical statement? or did you finally give up a life of lies and self-deception? Or were you just dragging on a magic stick chasing a rabbit as you wrote that? Who knows? Do you? Do I?


AC3 was an abomination....Connor's lack of interest in the opposite sex and his boorish mug have soured the experience for me which is isn't saying much since the game itself was born out a violent diarrhoea episode at Ubisoft...*sigh*

What matters is that I just installed Homeworld 2 and found a way to circumvent the Windows 7 incompatability......I shall now save the world from a weapon of mass destruction - a Wedding ring and a bunch religious alien zealots with R2D2 by my side


So, the question is...what the hell are you talking about mother****er?

Assassin_M
06-03-2013, 01:10 AM
So, the question is...what the hell are you talking about mother****er?
I was trolling, I swear to god I was trolling D: please, take your aliens and LEAVE ME ALONE

Congratulations on your installation, though..marvelous news. patrick

roostersrule2
06-03-2013, 01:12 AM
I was trolling, I swear to god I was trolling D: please, take your aliens and LEAVE ME ALONE

Congratulations on your installation, though..marvelous news. patrickAnd do you know what happens to trolls Mr M?
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBJqDcTWyHGlfzFrlC9mofiOXXrgKbR 0oaXLMA_4PgDcekQitB

Assassin_M
06-03-2013, 01:16 AM
And do you know what happens to trolls Mr M?
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBJqDcTWyHGlfzFrlC9mofiOXXrgKbR 0oaXLMA_4PgDcekQitB
http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/jAdToKktmtA/hqdefault.jpg

montagemik
06-03-2013, 01:47 AM
I am so sorry for being so poorly informed about AC-R. Maybe just maybe if I could find the strength to carry on with this game, which I couldn't so far, I might change my poor opinion.

As for the colours, I mean the display when loading. I thought it looked very fresh and modern with the bright white and red scheme and clear maps in AC2 and ACB, but in AC-R, they chose a very dark scheme, which looks apocalyptic and uncomfortable to me, inspite of Constantinople being über-colourful.

.


No need to be sorry - you're free to slate a game completely after 3 sequences & determine it's story worthless or dull to the series , same with AC1 which kicked everything off with bad graphics compared to AC-2.
(AC1 sucked graphically for a 2008 console game :confused: ok )

But the 'Dark colours' for menus in AC-R turning you against the game , Well they were all relevant to the story & explained quite clearly in the game . Then again i suppose many stories can seem meaningless - If never read fully.

Would be nice to have graphics like CGI movies from the last 20 yrs wouldn't it ?
If they ever figure out how to make a console capable of playing a fully interactive videogame to those specifications, Which joe public could actually afford to buy - I'm sure those games will be great.
I'd enjoy playing games of that standard too .

unfortunately super shiny graphics & lots of stuff to do in a videogame requires a lot of processing power. Be a little realistic with the tech you're talking about.

roostersrule2
06-03-2013, 01:50 AM
No need to be sorry - you're free to slate a game completely after 3 sequences & determine it's story worthless or dull to the series , same with AC1 which kicked everything off with bad graphics compared to AC-2.
(AC1 sucked graphically for a 2008 console game :confused: ok )

But the 'Dark colours' for menus in AC-R turning you against the game , Well they were all relevant to the story & explained quite clearly in the game . Then again i suppose many stories can seem meaningless - If never read fully.

Would be nice to have graphics like CGI movies from the last 20 yrs wouldn't it ?
If they ever figure out how to make a console capable of playing a fully interactive videogame to those specifications, Which joe public could actually afford to buy - I'm sure those games will be great.
I'd enjoy playing games of that standard too .

unfortunately super shiny graphics & lots of stuff to do in a videogame requires a lot of processing power. Be a little realistic with the tech you're talking about.I stopped reading after that and rightly so, also it was 2007.

Megas_Doux
06-03-2013, 02:02 AM
No need to be sorry - you're free to slate a game completely after 3 sequences & determine it's story worthless or dull to the series , same with AC1 which kicked everything off with bad graphics compared to AC-2.


I disagree, I find ACI´s graphics better than ACII´s.

montagemik
06-03-2013, 02:04 AM
I stopped reading after that and rightly so, also it was 2007.


LOL , I was quoting Besoiz's comments. hence my confusion at the statement

montagemik
06-03-2013, 02:05 AM
I disagree, I find ACI´s graphics better than ACII´s.

You should've read what i responded to .

That isn't MY opinion of AC 1. ;)

roostersrule2
06-03-2013, 02:13 AM
LOL , I was quoting Besoiz's comments. hence my confusion at the statementOh ok, sorry.

Megas_Doux
06-03-2013, 02:23 AM
You should've read what i responded to .

That isn't MY opinion of AC 1. ;)

Quoting my favorite character in the series " A thousand pardons":cool:

Locopells
06-03-2013, 02:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szCSDLZ3UY0

Tyrhydion
06-16-2013, 05:57 PM
No need to be sorry - you're free to slate a game completely after 3 sequences & determine it's story worthless or dull to the series , same with AC1 which kicked everything off with bad graphics compared to AC-2.
(AC1 sucked graphically for a 2008 console game :confused: ok )

But the 'Dark colours' for menus in AC-R turning you against the game , Well they were all relevant to the story & explained quite clearly in the game . Then again i suppose many stories can seem meaningless - If never read fully.

Would be nice to have graphics like CGI movies from the last 20 yrs wouldn't it ?
If they ever figure out how to make a console capable of playing a fully interactive videogame to those specifications, Which joe public could actually afford to buy - I'm sure those games will be great.
I'd enjoy playing games of that standard too .

unfortunately super shiny graphics & lots of stuff to do in a videogame requires a lot of processing power. Be a little realistic with the tech you're talking about.

Still hating it at Memory Block 6 and with 4 Masyaf Medals in the pocket. It's the most tiring game.... progress is extra slow with all the extra side missions and exploring the map like in no other game. AC-Brotherhood was more fun on that level. And it has to do with Istanbul as a very dense and crowded city on different street levels. Exploring sucked (but I am finished with it), and the guards also have their eyes everywhere. I enjoyed Masyaf medals the most, because I was freed from the crowded city and could do what I enjoy the most, jumping and climbing without unforced open conflicts.

But a question arose which makes me consider restart all over again (but certainly not now), since I lost a templar den and can't buy the shops and monuments in this area.... any chance I can reclaim it? Whenever I google for "assassins creed revelations taking back lost templar den" I only get information on Lost Archives and without the word "lost" I get information about "Den Defense" which comes too late for me at this point.

What I do is taking out the shooting guards in their cabins, but nothing happens and I can't re-ignite the fire on the tower.

Tyrhydion
06-16-2013, 05:59 PM
I disagree, I find ACI´s graphics better than ACII´s.


Seriously? I am better with watercolours.

lothario-da-be
06-16-2013, 06:06 PM
Seriously? I am better with watercolours.
AC1 its graphics were much more realistic.

Tyrhydion
06-16-2013, 06:10 PM
So if AC 1 had the best graphics, than graphic solutions are travelling back in time :P

And no, AC 1 had so not the best graphics. Altair didnt even have a real face, neither did other "characters" and I am still grinning at the blending monks and their stiff robes which all fell the same way.....

Farlander1991
06-16-2013, 06:46 PM
But a question arose which makes me consider restart all over again (but certainly not now), since I lost a templar den and can't buy the shops and monuments in this area.... any chance I can reclaim it?

Yeah, find the Templar captain, kill him, light up the fire in the tower and you will reclaim the den. Basically the same way as you captured it the first time.

Tyrhydion
06-17-2013, 09:07 PM
Yeah, find the Templar captain, kill him, light up the fire in the tower and you will reclaim the den. Basically the same way as you captured it the first time.

I have tried this a hundred times but never encountered the captain again... someone else said I have to play den defense again, which is a completely different info... nevertheless nothing happens at all

Farlander1991
06-18-2013, 07:05 AM
No, you go through den defense only while the den is contested. You have to enter the den itself to do that.

However, if the den is captured by the Templars, you have to kill the Templar captain. Use Eagle Vision to identify him. He should be gold. And his foot tracks/patrol route in Eagle Vision also should be gold.

salman147
06-18-2013, 04:57 PM
The reasons r:
1)Open world content is very rich.
2)The diversity of Rome.
3)And my favorite reason:War machines.They're a blast!
4)This had a very fresh experience and people don't forget their first experience.So,that's why.

luckyto
06-18-2013, 05:03 PM
So if AC 1 had the best graphics, than graphic solutions are travelling back in time :P

And no, AC 1 had so not the best graphics. Altair didnt even have a real face, neither did other "characters" and I am still grinning at the blending monks and their stiff robes which all fell the same way.....

AC1 actually did have the best graphics in terms of environments. It actually pushed the systems too far, and as a result, it had crashing issues on some consoles (particularly PS3). Simply look at how AC1 handles rendering shadows, light, drawing smoothly while moving and rendering objects in the far distance - not to mention the textures are very fine. Technically speaking, it was - and is - phenomenal.

After the issues with AC1 crashing, Ubisoft scaled the engine back across the board. The entire Ezio Trilogy was done with less powerful engine that AC1. AC3 however seems to take it up a notch, and while it doesn't quite match AC1's ability to render environments; it handles many things like a variety of crowd animations, water, animals, irregular climbing/scaling surfaces, etc much better. Of course, it has severe frame rate issues.

shobhit7777777
06-18-2013, 05:30 PM
I think some people are confusing "Awesome Graphics" with "Visual/Art Design/Style"

SixKeys
06-18-2013, 05:42 PM
I think some people are confusing "Awesome Graphics" with "Visual/Art Design/Style"

^ This. AC1 has better graphics than AC2. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. AC2 being larger in scope was most likely the reason they scaled back on the graphics. Maybe with next-gen technology we can expect a better compromise between wealth of content and amazing graphics.

Farlander1991
06-18-2013, 05:45 PM
AC1 also has better physics and facial animation than AC2.