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View Full Version : Dismemberment?



bongomast3r
04-26-2013, 01:34 PM
Hey all,

I know it's a bit of a grizzly topic but... Anyone else noticed that no mainstream games have dismemberment anymore? Gone, it seems, are the days of GTAIII (where you could pop someone's head off with a sniper rifle), Soldier of Fortune, Kingpin, etc. I'm sure there are some non-mainstream hack'n'slash games out there with plenty of dismemberment (zombie/alien games don't count!), but do the major publishers really have to be be so PC in sheltering us from such violence toward human characters?

Some of the attacks in Assassin's Creed are extremely brutal and in my opinion just as cringe-worthy as seeing a limb get hacked off. I'll just say it now; when I'm wielding dual cutlasses and perform the inevitable scissor chop at neck height, it's gonna look pretty silly when the enemy just falls to his knees in one piece.

I'm not bloodthirsty, but it's just what sometimes happens when you attack someone with an axe. Ubisoft don't apologise for allowing whaling in their game: it's part-and-parcel of the era and pirate lifestyle. Well, so is this.

roostersrule2
04-26-2013, 01:37 PM
I've never been a fan of ultra gore myself and it's just a criticism that can be avoided easily.

montagemik
04-26-2013, 01:58 PM
Gore for the sake of having gore is pretty lame .
But i agree with OP - from a point of realism if nothing else AXES should dismember limbs (occassionally) ............Twin sword Scissor decapitation however - not so plausible.

( I Also was dissapointed to hear Scalping was ditched from AC-3 )

pacmanate
04-26-2013, 03:36 PM
Gore is realistic. Stuff should get dismembered. I think it must be a safe thing to do with censoring. Reading AC novels they sound brutal, one line is along the lines of "...slashed at the stomachs of the guards and there insides spewing to the floor with them in pain". Now THAT sounds realistic.

ProletariatPleb
04-26-2013, 03:56 PM
Assassin's Creed went PG13 a long time ago, I've pitched this idea many times but either people say they don't want gore or that it would not "suit" the game............yeah a game that is 70% combat recently cannot have suitable gore.

Sushiglutton
04-26-2013, 05:33 PM
I'm all for a bit of gore. Could also be used for gameplay purposes. The toughest enemies you may have to cut off an arm with your first strike. Then chop off the other in a second attack (may have to block in between). After that even the toughest enemies should be pretty much done. Enemies with shields you may have to cut a leg off and stab them on the ground and so on. Should get more blood and gore next gen will all the improved particle effects...

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 05:36 PM
Red Dead Redemption UN has dismemberment....just sayin :|

AdamPearce
04-26-2013, 05:41 PM
Well, there's decapitation in ACR, wich is actually the most violent AC game. But I agree that more violence should be add in the games, especially this time we play a Pirate. And selective domage could be awesome too.

AdamPearce
04-26-2013, 05:41 PM
Red Dead Redemption UN has dismemberment....just sayin :|

''(zombie/alien games don't count!)''

Sushiglutton
04-26-2013, 05:42 PM
Some of the attacks in Assassin's Creed are extremely brutal and in my opinion just as cringe-worthy as seeing a limb get hacked off. I'll just say it now; when I'm wielding dual cutlasses and perform the inevitable scissor chop at neck height, it's gonna look pretty silly when the enemy just falls to his knees in one piece.

BTW loved this move in Warrior Within :cool:

AdamPearce
04-26-2013, 05:50 PM
BTW loved this move in Warrior Within :cool:

Nostalgia...also the throwing sword decapitation, so awesome, or when you shop someone in a half, omg!

montagemik
04-26-2013, 05:55 PM
''(zombie/alien games don't count!)''

Conan the Barbarian - Tons of dismemberment & tearing people in half ............ ( Did Afro Samurai game have dismemberment too ? can't remember TBH )

AC Games Swords / Axes & Cert 18 - No dismembermet
Cert 15 movies show far more graphic content than many Cert 18 games .

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 05:56 PM
''(zombie/alien games don't count!)''
why the eff not ?

btw.............sickos :|

montagemik
04-26-2013, 06:05 PM
why the eff not ?

btw.............sickos :|

Sickos ?? LOL , think of it as Historical Accuracy - History is our playground ............So can we play with 'Realistic' weapons instead of these pretend ones that can't cut through bone ?

AdamPearce
04-26-2013, 06:05 PM
why the eff not ?

btw.............sickos :|

Hmm, I'll say because first of all, they're not living human & that dismember in Zombies or Aliens games is like the Hidden Blades for AC, it's part of it you can't do those game without it. But, for humans, you pass over because it's not let's say, necessary to dismember everything.

But for AC, knowing that is suppose to be an immersive game, it's kinda anormal that most of the kills don't do anything more that splash some red in the screen. The best example is the absence of blood on the ground. When you cut the throat of someone, he just fall on the ground with a dirty red shirt..even in GTA3 we had puddles of blood when we killed someone..

Abeonis
04-26-2013, 06:17 PM
Hmm, I'll say because first of all, they're not living human & that dismember in Zombies or Aliens games is like the Hidden Blades for AC, it's part of it you can't do those game without it. But, for humans, you pass over because it's not let's say, necessary to dismember everything.

You haven't played Gears of War, I assume?

Bastiaen
04-26-2013, 06:38 PM
I don't like over the top gore, which is why some of the sword animations in ACR annoyed me.

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 06:43 PM
Hmm, I'll say because first of all, they're not living human & that dismember in Zombies or Aliens games is like the Hidden Blades for AC, it's part of it you can't do those game without it. But, for humans, you pass over because it's not let's say, necessary to dismember everything.

But for AC, knowing that is suppose to be an immersive game, it's kinda anormal that most of the kills don't do anything more that splash some red in the screen. The best example is the absence of blood on the ground. When you cut the throat of someone, he just fall on the ground with a dirty red shirt..even in GTA3 we had puddles of blood when we killed someone..
it`s still dismemberment right ?? Zombies were formerly humans...what you say makes no sense:confused:

so unless it`s a human with red blood, it`s not dismemberment ??

Jack_Pirate
04-26-2013, 06:53 PM
Hey all,

I know it's a bit of a grizzly topic but... Anyone else noticed that no mainstream games have dismemberment anymore? Gone, it seems, are the days of GTAIII (where you could pop someone's head off with a sniper rifle), Soldier of Fortune, Kingpin, etc. I'm sure there are some non-mainstream hack'n'slash games out there with plenty of dismemberment (zombie/alien games don't count!), but do the major publishers really have to be be so PC in sheltering us from such violence toward human characters?

Some of the attacks in Assassin's Creed are extremely brutal and in my opinion just as cringe-worthy as seeing a limb get hacked off. I'll just say it now; when I'm wielding dual cutlasses and perform the inevitable scissor chop at neck height, it's gonna look pretty silly when the enemy just falls to his knees in one piece.

I'm not bloodthirsty, but it's just what sometimes happens when you attack someone with an axe. Ubisoft don't apologise for allowing whaling in their game: it's part-and-parcel of the era and pirate lifestyle. Well, so is this.

ummm, Black ops Zombies, GEARS OF WAR SERIES, Skyrim,

holy crap Fallout for goodness sake, you could dismantle every piece of every corpse if you so desired. God of War series.

tell me these arent mainstream games with alot of gore

nitres15
04-26-2013, 06:55 PM
correct me if im wrong, but last time i checked an assassin is supposed to dispatch his/her enemies quickly and cleanly. Not going all Kratos up in their face

Jack_Pirate
04-26-2013, 06:57 PM
correct me if im wrong, but last time i checked an assassin is supposed to dispatch his/her enemies quickly and cleanly. Not going all Kratos up in their face

"Desyncronization imminent, your ancestors did not dismember their targets or go Kratos on their asses"

ProletariatPleb
04-26-2013, 06:59 PM
correct me if im wrong, but last time i checked an assassin is supposed to dispatch his/her enemies quickly and cleanly. Not going all Kratos up in their face
Traditionally, Assassin's are NOT warriors, they are agile but not strong. So while they can easily fight 2 people but more than that it should get a lot more difficult and they will fight with cunning not 'cleanly' or 'fairly', further they shouldn't be efficient in open combat, their job is to sneak, strike, disappear nor smear the place with blood.

That hasn't happened in AC for a long time and that's why it's a mainstream hurr action game and not niche game.

montagemik
04-26-2013, 07:09 PM
correct me if im wrong, but last time i checked an assassin is supposed to dispatch his/her enemies quickly and cleanly. Not going all Kratos up in their face

Yes - that's true .

But when you're surrounded by 10+ guards Stealth is already out the window ............I See no reason why dismemberment shouldn't apply in those situations while our assassin is swinging around a 'Hessian' AXE . It's hardly a delicate weapon of finesse.

ArabianFrost
04-26-2013, 07:16 PM
I don't know about the realism factor being an advantage to gameplay. Let's say you or a guard get dismembered, how is the combat going to flow? You just lost an arm and can no longer fight? All enemies are armless and you just fight limping enemies? This is certainly when realism negatively affects the game.

ProletariatPleb
04-26-2013, 07:18 PM
I don't know about the realism factor being an advantage to gameplay. Let's say you or a guard get dismembered, how is the combat going to flow? You just lost an arm and can no longer fight? All enemies are armless and you just fight limping enemies? This is certainly when realism negatively affects the game.
OR, it could be implemented WHEN they're dying.

SleezeRocker
04-26-2013, 07:22 PM
Gore and dismemberment kind of..."died" after Resident evil 5 :rolleyes: lol

But honestly Assassisn's creed does not 'need' gore/dismemberment and like Jack mentioned above, an Assassin does not rip heads off, they drop in,shank, and get out pretty much.
they only time...probalby gore is acceptable in AC if there was torture being involved somewhere but...eh so far not really have we seen that. Though AC4 being a Pirates game, caught pirates would be tortured/killed like being hanged in a body cage etc.

ArabianFrost
04-26-2013, 07:32 PM
OR, it could be implemented WHEN they're dying.

That's alright, as long as the series of initial hacking and slashing don't affect the enemy AI's limbs. Still, it doesn't add much and would make as much sense as the only QTE dismemberment in GOW. So you're hacking and slashing through this man like a butcher and he only is aesthetically damaged in the finishing move? Meh, I couldn't care less about how they do the super, cool, EPIC FTW finishing move if the combat is still the same mechanically, so they can add whatever the hell they won't to the challenge-lacking combat system.

ProletariatPleb
04-26-2013, 08:06 PM
That's alright, as long as the series of initial hacking and slashing don't affect the enemy AI's limbs. Still, it doesn't add much and would make as much sense as the only QTE dismemberment in GOW. So you're hacking and slashing through this man like a butcher and he only is aesthetically damaged in the finishing move? Meh, I couldn't care less about how they do the super, cool, EPIC FTW finishing move if the combat is still the same mechanically, so they can add whatever the hell they won't to the challenge-lacking combat system.
Well my idea was more of...*sigh* let's go over it

Remove killstreaks, they're too easy and I can play it with my eyes closed. And no enemies won't get hit in every attack, they're trained people, they should be able to block and perhaps parry us at times. Only a well timed strike will hit them.
Add a chance % based on weapons, you have a % of chance that you will dismember an opponent and he dies of bleeding.

ArabianFrost
04-26-2013, 08:13 PM
Well my idea was more of...*sigh* let's go over it

Remove killstreaks, they're too easy and I can play it with my eyes closed. And no enemies won't get hit in every attack, they're trained people, they should be able to block and perhaps parry us at times. Only a well timed strike will hit them.
Add a chance % based on weapons, you have a % of chance that you will dismember an opponent and he dies of bleeding.

You present sensible ideas. Both violent and challenging, but what would qualify as a well timed attack?

AssassinHMS
04-26-2013, 08:16 PM
Traditionally, Assassin's are NOT warriors, they are agile but not strong. So while they can easily fight 2 people but more than that it should get a lot more difficult and they will fight with cunning not 'cleanly' or 'fairly', further they shouldn't be efficient in open combat, their job is to sneak, strike, disappear nor smear the place with blood.

That hasn't happened in AC for a long time and that's why it's a mainstream hurr action game and not niche game.

I don't get why it's so hard for the devs to understand this.

ProletariatPleb
04-26-2013, 08:26 PM
You present sensible ideas. Both violent and challenging, but what would qualify as a well timed attack?
Attack them before their attack completes or when they're not blocking?

ArabianFrost
04-26-2013, 08:43 PM
Attack them before their attack completes or when they're not blocking?

So that leaves us with two options. Smash that attack button like a maniac until they lose their block OR wait for them to attack like in AC2, which isn't adding much. If I am not understanding it correctly, can you reference another game with a similar system?Arkaham City maybe?

ProletariatPleb
04-26-2013, 08:51 PM
So that leaves us with two options. Smash that attack button like a maniac until they lose their block OR wait for them to attack like in AC2, which isn't adding much. If I am not understanding it correctly, can you reference another game with a similar system?Arkaham City maybe?
Nope, if you attack at the wrong moments for example when they're blocking, you stagger.

What I'm trying to say is, in AC3, any enemy once not able to use weapon, 4 clicks and he's a goner. I'm saying not every hit will connect to the enemy.

ArabianFrost
04-26-2013, 09:03 PM
Nope, if you attack at the wrong moments for example when they're blocking, you stagger.

What I'm trying to say is, in AC3, any enemy once not able to use weapon, 4 clicks and he's a goner. I'm saying not every hit will connect to the enemy.

Oh. Makes sense now. Maybe it would even make you a bit vulnerable to be blocked. At least it would make sense out of the health bars that enemies have. However, I must say that it would make sense to be able to counter the block, with a different attack just for the sake of making combat flow, so you're forced to concentrate on enemy movements.

XgasmloverX
04-27-2013, 03:13 AM
It would be nice to see some decapitations going on in Multiplayer

Free_Hidings
04-27-2013, 05:48 AM
They should add more options to the combat. Like maybe pushing fowards while attacking or holding an extra button to perform different attacks, which can be blocked or dodged by the enemy in different scenarios, but it needs to be more free flowing and less QTE ish. I love AC3 combat but I would like a more challenging and rewarding combat. I think Only AC1 has been more challenging and rewarding so far, though I have to say AC3's is the most fun. AC2 was boring and easy as ****, and ACB / ACR reduced boredom but didn't really increase difficulty.

lothario-da-be
04-27-2013, 12:55 PM
I want realistic gore, when i kill someone with an axe, i want to see flesh and blood.

bongomast3r
05-11-2013, 02:25 PM
Good to know there are a lot of others out there who think the gore could be ramped up.

I guess the main reason we're not seeing over-the-top gore is because Ubisoft want to market this extremely popular game to the widest market possible. Dismemberment would turn some people off. Meh, I can live with that decision. The combat moves have been amazing so far, and if they keep this level of finesse for AC4 I'll be happy.

AjinkyaParuleka
05-11-2013, 03:27 PM
Dismemberment sounds shiny and good,I mean,ACR had some brutal finishes,AC3 was x10 times the bruteness.those tomahawk chops would obviously hack off a guards body part and I hope I see a head rollin' when i do a scissor cut in BF.The last time I saw disemberment in sword games was PoP Warrior Within.Even Dragon Age Origins had disememberment in finishing moves,I wonder why they removed it in DA2.

Farlander1991
05-11-2013, 03:29 PM
I don't know. Even with all the way the limbs were broken in AC1 and how gritty it felt, I still feel that dismemberment is... not needed really.

In fact, I think limb breaking should come back instead.

I guess it's a matter of artistic perception, but to me, limbs falling off don't feel gritty and realistic. In fact, the more dismemberment there is, the more cartoony and over the top it feels (I think to keep it artistically grounded, dismembered should be held off until a special meaningful occasion). But, for example, that crunch when you push somebody's knee so it goes out of the leg backwards and how it gets totally disfigured (like one of the movies in AC1), THAT feels painful and gruesome.

ze_topazio
05-11-2013, 03:35 PM
You should try Metal Gear Rising if you want to see some hardcore dismemberment.

Farlander1991
05-11-2013, 05:12 PM
You should try Metal Gear Rising if you want to see some hardcore dismemberment.

Uhm... could you define 'hardcore' please?

There's lots of it, sure, but it's incredibly over-the-top to the point where I don't think it could be even considered as gore.

pacmanate
05-11-2013, 05:19 PM
Uhm... could you define 'hardcore' please?

There's lots of it, sure, but it's incredibly over-the-top to the point where I don't think it could be even considered as gore.

How is it over the top? The Blade is sharp as hell and hes a cyborg so he can easy produce enough force to dismember someone.

Farlander1991
05-11-2013, 05:27 PM
How is it over the top? The Blade is sharp as hell and hes a cyborg so he can easy produce enough force to dismember someone.

Well, yeah, exactly. It's stylistically very over the top. It's a cyborg who makes ten flashy full cuts in a few seconds and the enemy falls into pieces. That's cool, but it's silly and not gory in any way.

ze_topazio
05-11-2013, 05:30 PM
I meant in a sense that there is a lot of it, you can cut your enemies in hundred of pieces as you please, the game was even originally designed around that.

SleezeRocker
05-11-2013, 08:37 PM
You should try Metal Gear Rising if you want to see some hardcore dismemberment.

Not really.....sure you DO cut them into 100 of pieces but...you odn't see loads of blood,, bone, and intestines fly/come off.

If anything god of War has more 'gory' dismemberment...or Dead space even. MGR is more like...eh just comic/cartoon dismemberment to me