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catkiller97
04-23-2013, 03:54 AM
Assassin's Creed III - Tyranny Of King Washington Redemption Discussion Thread

http://img1.gamersky.com/image2012/10/20121020u_2/gamersky_09origin_17_20121020112B51.jpg

Launch Trailer


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uaXyXBbBZs

The final battle has finally come! Ratonhnhaké:ton's journey concludes in the third and final episode of The Tyranny of King Washington: "The Redemption". Arriving in New York, he will call upon all of the abilities tied to his native heritage in order to break into the monarch fortress and put an end to the tyranny of the mad King. Live history as it never happened and rise! Release the bear to stop the tyranny, Assassins!

The three episodes of the Tyranny of King Washington are available through the Assassin’s Creed III Season Pass, which is available for purchase for 2400 Microsoft Points on Xbox LIVE or £23.99 on the PlayStation Network and Windows PC.

Each episode of The Tyranny of King Washington is available for purchase separately as a single DLC pack for 800 Microsoft points or £7.99.

Now available on Xbox 360 and PC. And will be available for PlayStation 3 tomorrow, April 24.

Press Release Shots

http://cdn.connecteddigitalworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/nounours_attack_031.jpg?ac5487

http://cdn.connecteddigitalworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/pyramid_04.jpg?ac5487

http://cdn-three.connecteddigitalworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/jefferson_011.jpg?ac5487

http://cdn-three.connecteddigitalworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/awesome_GW_03.jpg?ac5487

http://cdn.connecteddigitalworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/finalboss_011.jpg?ac5487

http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/04/Assassins-creed-3-tyranny-redemption-3.jpg

http://images.vg247.com/current//2013/04/Assassins-creed-3-tyranny-redemption.jpg

Feel Free to discuss about DLC here http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20120411.419/images/smilies/smile.png

ProletariatPleb
04-23-2013, 09:00 AM
The ending is a bit...confusing to say the least.

So the Apple showed what could happen in the future like it showed to Ezio in Brotherhood after which he went after Cesare?
Washington was talking to a non-existant person....the Apple gave him something like the bleeding effect?

catkiller97
04-23-2013, 09:46 AM
^^Exactly

I am too very confused..

Review :-

EuroGamer - Assassin's Creed 3: The Tyranny of King Washington - Part 3 review (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-23-assassins-creed-3-the-tyranny-of-king-washington-part-3-review)

IGN - Assassin's Creed III: The Tyranny of King Washington Review (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/04/23/assassins-creed-iii-the-tyranny-of-king-washington-review)

ConnectedDigitalworld - Review of Assassin’s Creed III The Tyranny of King Washington The Redemption (http://connecteddigitalworld.com/2013/04/23/review-of-assassins-creed-iii-the-tyranny-of-king-washington-dlc-episode-3-the-redemption/)

catkiller97
04-23-2013, 10:32 AM
Launch Trailer and screen added in first post.

Mr_Shade
04-23-2013, 10:39 AM
If you guys are going to post spoilers - the thread will be locked..


Just a reminder..

Also - how are you playing it already.......?


and don't say 'youtube' :P

ProletariatPleb
04-23-2013, 10:42 AM
If you guys are going to post spoilers - the thread will be locked..
Uhm...but it's the discussion thread for the DLC, you won't discuss what happens in a DLC without playing.

EDIT: Also, Youtube.

AntiChrist7
04-23-2013, 11:03 AM
That IGN review has already an error in its introduction:

his review evaluates the Tyranny of King Washington DLC as a whole in light of the third episode, The Betrayal

Mr_Shade
04-23-2013, 11:06 AM
Uhm...but it's the discussion thread for the DLC, you won't discuss what happens in a DLC without playing.

EDIT: Also, Youtube.
Yes..but some may still take a sneaky look - thinking it's just chat about the DLC in general so it should have a [Spoiler] warning in the title..

You guys can't stop anyone spurting out the ending..


So, best to be prepared for it - before someone does it and it ruins the game for someone ;)


Common sense - oui?

Suppose I better do it...

ZeldaEmblem
04-23-2013, 11:16 AM
IGN gives this a 6.8/10. Unbelievable :| I personally thought this DLC can get a 7.5 or higher.

ProletariatPleb
04-23-2013, 11:20 AM
Common sense - oui?
You called me an idiot ._.

Mr_Shade
04-23-2013, 11:45 AM
You called me an idiot ._.
would I?

never!

AntiChrist7
04-23-2013, 11:51 AM
IGN gives this a 6.8/10. Unbelievable :| I personally thought this DLC can get a 7.5 or higher.

Like said, they already made a mistake in the introduction of their article/review (where they called the betrayal the third episode). Just to show how much effort IGN put in it. Probably Ubisoft forgot to make a donation on their bank account to get a good review :p

CptPakundo
04-23-2013, 12:12 PM
Also - how are you playing it already.......?


and don't say 'youtube' :P

Oh fine, I'll admit it: I was too anxious, so I downloaded it a day early, via less than fully legitimate means.


...Don't look at me like that, I pre-ordered the Digital Deluxe edition, so it's not like I didn't pay for it. :|

Mr_Shade
04-23-2013, 02:42 PM
Oh fine, I'll admit it: I was too anxious, so I downloaded it a day early, via less than fully legitimate means.


...Don't look at me like that, I pre-ordered the Digital Deluxe edition, so it's not like I didn't pay for it. :|hmm

You own the right to use the DLC when released - downloading early from a pirate site = asking for trouble..


So, best not to talk about such things... since no one here can prove you have the DD etc - and such talk is against the rules..

ArabianFrost
04-23-2013, 05:04 PM
The closure for Washington was satisfying and believable though I don't agree with the logic of King=Tyrant, Republic=Freedom (Egypt anyone?). As for Connor, it was sort of bittersweet. His silence was expressive (to some extent) about the emotional pain he has endured, but I wanted him to say much more and talk about his inner conflicts in a constructive speech at the end, rather than just generically sail towards the sun. Instead, we got a silly,"back, take us back". The way I understand it is that it pays homage to AC4, but not poor Connor and his thoughts about the matter. You know that speech about Achilles' death? I understand it's irrelevant, but they could have had something like that. Last thing I wanted was for Connor to use the apple and try to get answers to the questions that elude his thoughts. There is no greater journey than that for knowledge as Altaïr says. Maybe find about the fate of his people, losing all hope then echoing the words of Achilles? Finding more about his role in this world? Understanding where to go next? Any interesting question the people want answered really.

There were many ways to end this DLC, but this DLC seems to have chosen the safe side and not answer much, which is OK, but not the best there is.

Spider_Sith9
04-23-2013, 05:14 PM
The closure for Washington was satisfying and believable though I don't agree with the logic of King=Tyrant, Republic=Freedom (Egypt anyone?). As for Connor, it was sort of bittersweet. His silence was expressive (to some extent) about the emotional pain he has endured, but I wanted him to say much more and talk about his inner conflicts in a constructive speech at the end, rather than just generically sail towards the sun. Instead, we got a silly,"back, take us back". The way I understand it is that it pays homage to AC4, but not poor Connor and his thoughts about the matter. You know that speech about Achilles' death? I understand it's irrelevant, but they could have had something like that. Last thing I wanted was for Connor to use the apple and try to get answers to the questions that elude his thoughts. There is no greater journey than that for knowledge as Altaïr says. Maybe find about the fate of his people, losing all hope then echoing the words of Achilles? Finding more about his role in this world? Understanding where to go next? Any interesting question the people want answered really.

There were many ways to end this DLC, but this DLC seems to have chosen the safe side and not answer much, which is OK, but not the best there is.

Eh, I thought it was a good way to end off Connor's story. And no, I don't have faith he'll return. People have said it before, his battle is over. This was only a dream. Shame his rep is forever tarnished due to the dull, stoic, whiny, rude accusations.

ArabianFrost
04-23-2013, 05:29 PM
Eh, I thought it was a good way to end off Connor's story. And no, I don't have faith he'll return. People have said it before, his battle is over. This was only a dream. Shame his rep is forever tarnished due to the dull, stoic, whiny, rude accusations.

In itself, it was a good way to end Connor's story in the DLC, but I don't know about it being a good way to end off Connor for good. If this really is Connor's last game (it probably is), then all the maturity, experience and wisdom he so difficulty gained in AC3, will unfortunately go to waste. It could have shown in TOKGW, but it didn't, which isn't jolly.

CptPakundo
04-23-2013, 06:57 PM
hmm

You own the right to use the DLC when released - downloading early from a pirate site = asking for trouble..


So, best not to talk about such things... since no one here can prove you have the DD etc - and such talk is against the rules..

Well, technically that CAN be proven if I showed a screenshot of AC3 and season pass store page on Steam, where it shows I own it.
And besides, I really am not asking for trouble if all I do is access the same content I purchased the license to a little early, ESPECIALLY if since nothing else happens except for my abillity to play said content a little earlier.
And mind you, I didn't personally perform any kind of illegal action when I obtained the files - they were available publicly.

But yeah, sure, not talking about or condoning piracy here, obviously.

lothario-da-be
04-23-2013, 08:04 PM
I thought that the dlc itself was VERY good, but overpriced.The ending gives a good closure to the story, but doesn't give enough explanation.So George and Connor had the same vision?

BATISTABUS
04-23-2013, 08:12 PM
I was very unsatisfied with this DLC. The highlights for me were the Benedict Arnold assassination, the spirit journeys, Washington's revelation, Connor's outfit, and the music. While those things are fantastic, pretty much everything else left a lot to be desired. I suppose my hopes were too high.

AntiChrist7
04-23-2013, 08:58 PM
One thing i dont understand (small spoiler), is one of the lucid memory fragments shows desmond being turned into ashes.

How can this be a memory?

Lass4r
04-23-2013, 09:01 PM
Oh man, I was so sure the ending was a teaser for AC4, until I remembered that AC3 takes place after AC4 chronologically. And I was kinda mad they didn't tell us where they were when he dropped the apple =/

pacmanate
04-23-2013, 09:52 PM
One thing i dont understand (small spoiler), is one of the lucid memory fragments shows desmond being turned into ashes.

How can this be a memory?

I also want this explained. When this came up I was like "woah, this could be something big at the end". But it wasn't. I don't see how that is a memory of Connor. Unless its a memory of Desmonds which knows hes still alive. Some crazy crap.



ANYWAY

ENDING SUCKED. What the **** was that?

UrDeviant1
04-23-2013, 11:36 PM
I really liked it and thought the ending tied up the series nicely. Connor seemed happy to be going back to the homestead even though at the beginning of episode 1 he looked depressed and ready to bury his weapons. George Washington is obviously still a bit coo coo by the end and that scene had dark feel to it - i liked it. Seeing Benedict Arnold save Connors mother from a bear while she escaped with the sceptre was pretty cool. That pyramid was damn awesome - inside and out. I got a bit of enjoyment out of the bear power. Using it while running at some enemies or from a rooftop was pretty fun. That skyworld journey was ridiculous - i liked it. Overall I'd say all 3 episode were worth the money and i intend to play them all again. For me, this DLC beats the main game on enjoyment factor.

TheBearJew32
04-24-2013, 01:58 AM
just out of curiously, did any of the DLC have ambient music during free roam?

Toa TAK
04-24-2013, 03:29 AM
Finished it a little earlier this morning. Easily my favorite of the three parts. I loved the little nod to ACIV.

I just hope for future reference that they'll not split the DLC, I can wait awhile to have one big story instead of it being chopped up over three months.

rupok2
04-24-2013, 03:32 AM
Dlc was meh. I expect something cool towards end but got nothing. The only thing that sort of interested me was the desmond lucid memory, maybe its trying to say that desmond dying was a memory somehow.

poptartz20
04-24-2013, 03:37 AM
it's available in many different regions.http://htcf.info/10.jpg

Wtf does this mean... all your posts are the same!?

SixKeys
04-24-2013, 03:40 AM
Wtf does this mean... all your posts are the same!?

He's a spammer. Just copies and pastes sentences from other members' posts. Not sure why they do it.

catkiller97
04-24-2013, 08:54 AM
One thing i dont understand (small spoiler), is one of the lucid memory fragments shows desmond being turned into ashes.

How can this be a memory?



The ending is a bit...confusing to say the least.

So the Apple showed what could happen in the future like it showed to Ezio in Brotherhood after which he went after Cesare?
Washington was talking to a non-existant person....the Apple gave him something like the bleeding effect?

Can anyone explain me these stuffs?

Assassin_M
04-24-2013, 09:24 AM
Just finished it now....dayum....easily the best part of the series :|

It was absolutely, positively EPIC...the Pyramid was just wow and it had SOME challenge...SOME and it was very fun, also the ending was decent, you guys are over reacting -_-
That little Desmond memory fragment....what was that ?? that box had his watch too i think ??

Redemption 8.5/10

Entire ToKW 7/10

Money well spent and easily the best AC DLC ever

catkiller97
04-24-2013, 09:26 AM
^ M please explain this - http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/766660-Assassin-s-Creed-III-Tyranny-Of-King-Washington-Redemption-Discussion-SPOILERS?p=9038800&viewfull=1#post9038800

and pyramid climbing level was great!

Assassin_M
04-24-2013, 09:28 AM
^ M please explain this - http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/766660-Assassin-s-Creed-III-Tyranny-Of-King-Washington-Redemption-Discussion-SPOILERS?p=9038800&viewfull=1#post9038800
Well, the Washington guard illusion can easily be attributed to the Apple`s presence and its effect on GW, evident by the hallucination instantly disappearing the moment Connor lets go of the Apple into the ocean..

That Desmond bit....i`m just as lost as everyone else :|

ProletariatPleb
04-24-2013, 09:35 AM
Just finished it now....dayum....easily the best part of the series :|

It was absolutely, positively EPIC...the Pyramid was just wow and it had SOME challenge...SOME and it was very fun, also the ending was decent, you guys are over reacting -_-
That little Desmond memory fragment....what was that ?? that box had his watch too i think ??

Redemption 8.5/10

Entire ToKW 7/10

Money well spent and easily the best AC DLC ever
Told ya :P

Assassin_M
04-24-2013, 09:38 AM
Told ya :P
you`re a GOOD man...a GOOD man and thanks to Pacmante, because his was the recommendation cuz he had the season pass :D

Now.....to obsess over that Desmond bit :|

Spider_Sith9
04-24-2013, 09:51 AM
you`re a GOOD man...a GOOD man and thanks to Pacmante, because his was the recommendation cuz he had the season pass :D

Now.....to obsess over that Desmond bit :|

Yeah the Desmond bit was pretty odd. Also liked that throwback mission to the AC1 structure. :D

I kinda think this is where Connor ends. Maybe there are unanswered questions for him in the main story. But he has nowhere relevant to go. "Back. Take us back." was an amazing conclusion for him.

Assassin_M
04-24-2013, 09:58 AM
Yeah the Desmond bit was pretty odd. Also liked that throwback mission to the AC1 structure. :D

I kinda think this is where Connor ends. Maybe there are unanswered questions for him in the main story. But he has nowhere relevant to go. "Back. Take us back." was an amazing conclusion for him.
I agree actually, if we`ll ever get a conclusion for Connor, this should be it....his first victory with something...he basically saved the world if you think about it and.....saved GW`s *** again eeeeeeeek >_>

I also want to mention GW`s VA...he did an amazing job and managed to portray an evil GW perfectly....great villain and antagonist

ZeldaEmblem
04-24-2013, 11:55 AM
I also want to mention GW`s VA...he did an amazing job and managed to portray an evil GW perfectly....great villain and antagonist

Yeah I thought so too. He also did a lot of voice actings for video games, which are all very good.

Btw, I remember Ziio said people will go mad if drink too much great willow tea, but what about Connor? He doesn't show any sign of insanity ...

Oh and one thing confuses me. Washington said he receives the Apple from an officer, whose face he can't remember. And at the end of the DLC we saw a mysterious guy whose face is unclear. That makes me think, is the guy we saw at the ending and the officer one? Can anybody please explain? I'm so curious about this.

pacmanate
04-24-2013, 01:26 PM
I think this is what happened.

Desmonds body is still a thing. He might be "dead" it whatever state of the word, but his subconcious is alive. I think Abstergo had his body hooked up to some machine to upload his memories, and whilst this happened, his subconcious got uploaded with these memories. Sort of like how Clay had that "version" of him inside the Animus. That is why that lucid memory came up.

catkiller97
04-24-2013, 03:07 PM
@M THX for replying :)

I am very satisfied with the DLC too..

I liked Infamy least but Redemption is best part of the DLC..

Aphex_Tim
04-24-2013, 04:44 PM
That was an excellent ending! It explained everything and tied loose ends together (except maybe for the Desmond bit); I honestly have no idea what everyone who was disappointed was expecting.
I like that it also fits within AC's main story, despite all the "this is non-canon dlc!" we heard from the devs.

I also fell in love with the war club that you can find in one of the chests. It looks absolutely badass and fits Raton's outfit perfectly.

lightlamp
04-24-2013, 05:16 PM
I wish Ubisoft writers would learn the difference between England and the UK...

zerocooll21
04-24-2013, 05:22 PM
I wish Ubisoft writers would learn the difference between England and the UK...

Not joking, what is the difference?

lothario-da-be
04-24-2013, 05:23 PM
Not joking, what is the difference?
UK is with Scotland and Wales i think.

AherasSTRG
04-24-2013, 05:35 PM
UK is with Scotland and Wales i think.

Indeed. United Kingdom represents just that, the United Kingdom of England, Scotland and Wales. The imaginary George Washington of The Redemption should have said "our greatest enemy, the United Kingdom" instead of "our greatest enemy, England" in his speech.

kuled2012
04-24-2013, 05:37 PM
IGN reviewers and users are cretins.

Abeonis
04-24-2013, 06:04 PM
I wish Ubisoft writers would learn the difference between England and the UK...

You might want to consider the fact that the United Kingdom didn't exist until 1801...

EXPLANATION: The Kingdom's of England and Scotland united in 1707, forming the Kingdom of Great Britain. Later, in 1801 they united with Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; later still, was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Wales isn't, technically, a country. It's a Principality and a part of the Kingdom of England.

projectpat06
04-24-2013, 06:16 PM
I have a feeing we'll see Desmond again much like we saw clay in previous games

lothario-da-be
04-24-2013, 06:17 PM
I have a feeing we'll see Desmond again much like we saw clay in previous games
I think we will see him again as some kind of hologram. Just like Juno and Minerva.

lightlamp
04-24-2013, 06:56 PM
You might want to consider the fact that the United Kingdom didn't exist until 1801...

EXPLANATION: The Kingdom's of England and Scotland united in 1707, forming the Kingdom of Great Britain. Later, in 1801 they united with Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; later still, was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Wales isn't, technically, a country. It's a Principality and a part of the Kingdom of England.Woops. Yeah it was Great Britain back then. But hey. If George only wants to enslave the redcoats in England and not the rest in Britain that's pretty nice of him lol

FirestarLuva
04-24-2013, 07:27 PM
Yeah I thought so too. He also did a lot of voice actings for video games, which are all very good.

Btw, I remember Ziio said people will go mad if drink too much great willow tea, but what about Connor? He doesn't show any sign of insanity ...

He did go mad actually. He went so mad with both the powers and the apple in the end he wanted to kill Washington and enslave the people, something AC3 Connor would never do with a clear mind. Remember when he talked to Jefferson, he said 'kill Washington and give this country a new ruler' and Thomas said 'the people should rule' and Connor looked really angry as in he saw himself as ruler now. Even at the end when he spoke to GW and told him he was corrupted by the Apple, and Washington scolded him that he wouldn't be any different, Connor looked utterly confused and at loss of words and dismissed him rather quickly. it was all obvious from Washington's smirk and the way he said 'I'm the only King here!'
Also during the throne scene, both his mother and friend are telling him to stay away from the Apple because he was already lost, but then an evil and corrupted Ratonhnhake:ton - his dark side yells at him to take control. This was the moment where it was obvious Connor was already mad with the power. And you can see the alternate reality ended BEFORE Ratonhnhake:ton took the Apple. If the alternate reality continued it would've shown a power-hungry and corrupted dark side of Connor using the Apple to become the new king. Also this DLC was to put more emphasis on the conflict between Connor's assassin and native side, so unfortunately we weren't able to see a fully-mad Connor until the end scene. It was obvious Connor was struggling to keep himself sane and separate himself throughout all three episodes.
There were some people that complained why Altair and Ezio kept the Apple but Connor dropped it in the ocean. It was because the Apple didn't just show what would've happened if GW kept the Apple and became king. It also showed what what would've happened and what kind of person Connor would become if he killed Washington and used the Apple, in both realities. He didn't want to go mad with the power in the real world or ensalve people or even harm the Homestead residents. He also didn't want to betray his mother as Ratonhnhake:ton did in the alternative reality, since if you remember in sequence 4 of AC3, Connor read from her journal that her only fear was that one day she'll see the same evil hunger in his eyes just like Haytham. Apparently in the DLC Haytham was the one who lost control with the tea and the same happened to his son at the end. Connor just didn't want to repeat Raton's mistakes and disappoint his mother again. Kind of interesting how both AC3 and the DLC are tied in very well together. :3

lothario-da-be
04-24-2013, 07:45 PM
He did go mad actually. He went so mad with both the powers and the apple in the end he wanted to kill Washington and enslave the people, something AC3 Connor would never do with a clear mind. Remember when he talked to Jefferson, he said 'kill Washington and give this country a new ruler' and Thomas said 'the people should rule' and Connor looked really angry as in he saw himself as ruler now. Even at the end when he spoke to GW and told him he was corrupted by the Apple, and Washington scolded him that he wouldn't be any different, Connor looked utterly confused and at loss of words and dismissed him rather quickly. it was all obvious from Washington's smirk and the way he said 'I'm the only King here!'
Also during the throne scene, both his mother and friend are telling him to stay away from the Apple because he was already lost, but then an evil and corrupted Ratonhnhake:ton - his dark side yells at him to take control. This was the moment where it was obvious Connor was already mad with the power. And you can see the alternate reality ended BEFORE Ratonhnhake:ton took the Apple. If the alternate reality continued it would've shown a power-hungry and corrupted dark side of Connor using the Apple to become the new king. Also this DLC was to put more emphasis on the conflict between Connor's assassin and native side, so unfortunately we weren't able to see a fully-mad Connor until the end scene. It was obvious Connor was struggling to keep himself sane and separate himself throughout all three episodes.
There were some people that complained why Altair and Ezio kept the Apple but Connor dropped it in the ocean. It was because the Apple didn't just show what would've happened if GW kept the Apple and became king. It also showed what what would've happened and what kind of person Connor would become if he killed Washington and used the Apple, in both realities. He didn't want to go mad with the power in the real world or ensalve people or even harm the Homestead residents. He also didn't want to betray his mother as Ratonhnhake:ton did in the alternative reality, since if you remember in sequence 4 of AC3, Connor read from her journal that her only fear was that one day she'll see the same evil hunger in his eyes just like Haytham. Apparently in the DLC Haytham was the one who lost control with the tea and the same happened to his son at the end. Connor just didn't want to repeat Raton's mistakes and disappoint his mother again. Kind of interesting how both AC3 and the DLC are tied in very well together. :3
Nice post, didn't noticed many of the things you said.

Mr_Shade
04-24-2013, 08:04 PM
You might want to consider the fact that the United Kingdom didn't exist until 1801...

EXPLANATION: The Kingdom's of England and Scotland united in 1707, forming the Kingdom of Great Britain. Later, in 1801 they united with Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland; later still, was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Wales isn't, technically, a country. It's a Principality and a part of the Kingdom of England.
Indeed ;)

TheOnlyEzio
04-24-2013, 08:04 PM
He did go mad actually. He went so mad with both the powers and the apple in the end he wanted to kill Washington and enslave the people, something AC3 Connor would never do with a clear mind. Remember when he talked to Jefferson, he said 'kill Washington and give this country a new ruler' and Thomas said 'the people should rule' and Connor looked really angry as in he saw himself as ruler now. Even at the end when he spoke to GW and told him he was corrupted by the Apple, and Washington scolded him that he wouldn't be any different, Connor looked utterly confused and at loss of words and dismissed him rather quickly. it was all obvious from Washington's smirk and the way he said 'I'm the only King here!'
Also during the throne scene, both his mother and friend are telling him to stay away from the Apple because he was already lost, but then an evil and corrupted Ratonhnhake:ton - his dark side yells at him to take control. This was the moment where it was obvious Connor was already mad with the power. And you can see the alternate reality ended BEFORE Ratonhnhake:ton took the Apple. If the alternate reality continued it would've shown a power-hungry and corrupted dark side of Connor using the Apple to become the new king. Also this DLC was to put more emphasis on the conflict between Connor's assassin and native side, so unfortunately we weren't able to see a fully-mad Connor until the end scene. It was obvious Connor was struggling to keep himself sane and separate himself throughout all three episodes.
There were some people that complained why Altair and Ezio kept the Apple but Connor dropped it in the ocean. It was because the Apple didn't just show what would've happened if GW kept the Apple and became king. It also showed what what would've happened and what kind of person Connor would become if he killed Washington and used the Apple, in both realities. He didn't want to go mad with the power in the real world or ensalve people or even harm the Homestead residents. He also didn't want to betray his mother as Ratonhnhake:ton did in the alternative reality, since if you remember in sequence 4 of AC3, Connor read from her journal that her only fear was that one day she'll see the same evil hunger in his eyes just like Haytham. Apparently in the DLC Haytham was the one who lost control with the tea and the same happened to his son at the end. Connor just didn't want to repeat Raton's mistakes and disappoint his mother again. Kind of interesting how both AC3 and the DLC are tied in very well together. :3

I think you're looking into it to much...

and what happened in sequence 4 when connor read his mum's jorunal :S how do you do that?

xryanx28
04-24-2013, 08:10 PM
If you collect all 3 memories and visit the ghostish Connor on the boat, GW says that he gets the apple from a random person. And that was it. I thought it would show more. Why would they put that little conversation in there? im thinking that some how its going to connect with ac4 as its before ac3 in history and maybe show who gave washington the apple. maybe edwards friends or somthing.

BATISTABUS
04-24-2013, 10:57 PM
There were just so many things in this DLC that didn't work well. There were a bunch of things in the narrative that came out of nowhere and just didn't make sense. This is supposed to be a warning from the apple about a potential future with Washington as king, yet somehow it was plausible for Connor to have super powers, despite literally nothing else supernatural in the DLC. I know that has more to do with gameplay, so I can let it slide even if it doesn't make sense with the overall narrative.

Why does this take place in a completely alternate timeline? Shouldn't it just pick up after the war if this is meant to be a plausible outcome? If so, what was the point in having Connor retain his memory? Out of nowhere, Connor suddenly wants to rule with the Apple. Since when? They make this seem like a huge struggle towards the end, but neither in AC3 nor the DLC has Connor expressed any interest in controlling people (quite the opposite, actually). Connor feels guilty for drinking the tea even though there were no negative side effects. Ziio kept haunting his spirit journeys, but why should he feel guilty? He likes the power more than he probably should, but he isn't hurting innocents or people he cares about...he's using his abilities 100% for good. Why was the final battle against Washington impossible to lose? This was AC's one true chance at having an actual huge traditional boss battle, and they threw it away. Why make a freaking awesome pyramid that you just run straight through without any good puzzles (aside from the key one that takes 10 seconds to figure out)? The founding fathers in this DLC were incredibly bland (aside from Washington obviously), and the homesteaders might as well have not been included. This is meant to be canon, but why does it even matter? It doesn't progress Connor's character at all, and didn't even really show off much of his personality in the first place.

Aside from major issues, there are a few minor ones that bothered me. Why does Mr. Faulkner never question why Connor takes the wheel? Why does some random NPC sail the Aquila when Connor goes to dump the apple? Why did Franklin need a special metal to make a key? Why only include fan favorites like Achilles and Haytham in one-liners? There are implications about their fate, but they're both summed up in a passing mention (especially Achilles, who you might not even hear about).

For me, this DLC had a lot of great ideas. Some ideas worked extremely well, but unfortunately, the vast majority of them were not implemented to their full potential.

SixKeys
04-24-2013, 11:40 PM
There were just so many things in this DLC that didn't work well. There were a bunch of things in the narrative that came out of nowhere and just didn't make sense. This is supposed to be a warning from the apple about a potential future with Washington as king, yet somehow it was plausible for Connor to have super powers, despite literally nothing else supernatural in the DLC. I know that has more to do with gameplay, so I can let it slide even if it doesn't make sense with the overall narrative.

Why does this take place in a completely alternate timeline? Shouldn't it just pick up after the war if this is meant to be a plausible outcome? If so, what was the point in having Connor retain his memory? Out of nowhere, Connor suddenly wants to rule with the Apple. Since when? They make this seem like a huge struggle towards the end, but neither in AC3 nor the DLC has Connor expressed any interest in controlling people (quite the opposite, actually). Connor feels guilty for drinking the tea even though there were no negative side effects. Ziio kept haunting his spirit journeys, but why should he feel guilty? He likes the power more than he probably should, but he isn't hurting innocents or people he cares about...he's using his abilities 100% for good. Why was the final battle against Washington impossible to lose? This was AC's one true chance at having an actual huge traditional boss battle, and they threw it away. Why make a freaking awesome pyramid that you just run straight through without any good puzzles (aside from the key one that takes 10 seconds to figure out)? The founding fathers in this DLC were incredibly bland (aside from Washington obviously), and the homesteaders might as well have not been included. This is meant to be canon, but why does it even matter? It doesn't progress Connor's character at all, and didn't even really show off much of his personality in the first place.

Aside from major issues, there are a few minor ones that bothered me. Why does Mr. Faulkner never question why Connor takes the wheel? Why does some random NPC sail the Aquila when Connor goes to dump the apple? Why did Franklin need a special metal to make a key? Why only include fan favorites like Achilles and Haytham in one-liners? There are implications about their fate, but they're both summed up in a passing mention (especially Achilles, who you might not even hear about).

For me, this DLC had a lot of great ideas. Some ideas worked extremely well, but unfortunately, the vast majority of them were not implemented to their full potential.

Good points. (I watched the whole thing on YouTube, as Ubisoft still haven't got their act together for the PC community, so I can't actually play the game.)

Lots of things went unexplained in this "alternate reality". If it was meant to be a plausible future, why was Ziio still alive? Why did Connor retain his memory? What's with the mystical powers? etc.

The Edward reference felt painfully out of place, like the only reason they even gave that line to Connor was just for the sake of having an AC4 reference.

Why include some Homesteaders if you're just going to change their voices completely? Godfrey didn't even sound Irish.

Connor never went mad with power like the devs hinted he would. Like Batistabus said, he never hurt innocent people if he could avoid it and never showed interest in the Apple until the very end (and even that may just have been Washington projecting his own thoughts on to Connor). He became maybe a tiny bit more arrogant and reckless than the "real" Connor would be, but he never lost his way like Ziio's ghost kept warning him. So basically drinking the tea only had benefits and no downsides.

The devs also said Connor would ultimately have to make a choice whether he wanted to stay in this alternate timeline or go back to his own. That never happened. There was no choice. Connor's only goal was to stop Washington and as soon as he did, the dream ended.

The only things I was really impressed with were the interior of the pyramid and and the sky journey with the bear. The boss battle was cool too, but if what Batistabus says is right, it's impossible to lose which is pretty lame.

Echwaz
04-25-2013, 12:18 AM
It was an okay DLC for an okay game, it didn't do anything better story or mechanic wise then the main story did(perhaps in that gave a little more motivation for the player to do the missions where as in the original it was just done because a figure of historical note asked you too [the motivation in the DLC being trying to figure out what's going on]), save perhaps the causing unrest bit which in my opinion was kind of fun and should have been done in the main story; In the mains tory we simply see a french cook do it for you while Connor protests and then praises him for it at the end -_-

The one thing this DLC really shows is how bad the flow of free running in the cities were in the original, the eagle ability really made it flow better since the huge gaps that prevented seamless flow from rooftop to rooftop could be traversed where as in the original you had to jump down to climb back up again..

Anyhow it was fun, but was rather unsatisfying for me since so much was hinted at and said that just didn't pan out (just like the original game)

I will say this the soundtrack was really good for when it was there (which was thankfully more prevalent then the original game itself )

Spider_Sith9
04-25-2013, 12:41 AM
There were just so many things in this DLC that didn't work well. There were a bunch of things in the narrative that came out of nowhere and just didn't make sense. This is supposed to be a warning from the apple about a potential future with Washington as king, yet somehow it was plausible for Connor to have super powers, despite literally nothing else supernatural in the DLC. I know that has more to do with gameplay, so I can let it slide even if it doesn't make sense with the overall narrative.

Why does this take place in a completely alternate timeline? Shouldn't it just pick up after the war if this is meant to be a plausible outcome? If so, what was the point in having Connor retain his memory? Out of nowhere, Connor suddenly wants to rule with the Apple. Since when? They make this seem like a huge struggle towards the end, but neither in AC3 nor the DLC has Connor expressed any interest in controlling people (quite the opposite, actually). Connor feels guilty for drinking the tea even though there were no negative side effects. Ziio kept haunting his spirit journeys, but why should he feel guilty? He likes the power more than he probably should, but he isn't hurting innocents or people he cares about...he's using his abilities 100% for good. Why was the final battle against Washington impossible to lose? This was AC's one true chance at having an actual huge traditional boss battle, and they threw it away. Why make a freaking awesome pyramid that you just run straight through without any good puzzles (aside from the key one that takes 10 seconds to figure out)? The founding fathers in this DLC were incredibly bland (aside from Washington obviously), and the homesteaders might as well have not been included. This is meant to be canon, but why does it even matter? It doesn't progress Connor's character at all, and didn't even really show off much of his personality in the first place.

Aside from major issues, there are a few minor ones that bothered me. Why does Mr. Faulkner never question why Connor takes the wheel? Why does some random NPC sail the Aquila when Connor goes to dump the apple? Why did Franklin need a special metal to make a key? Why only include fan favorites like Achilles and Haytham in one-liners? There are implications about their fate, but they're both summed up in a passing mention (especially Achilles, who you might not even hear about).

For me, this DLC had a lot of great ideas. Some ideas worked extremely well, but unfortunately, the vast majority of them were not implemented to their full potential.


Good points. (I watched the whole thing on YouTube, as Ubisoft still haven't got their act together for the PC community, so I can't actually play the game.)

Lots of things went unexplained in this "alternate reality". If it was meant to be a plausible future, why was Ziio still alive? Why did Connor retain his memory? What's with the mystical powers? etc.

The Edward reference felt painfully out of place, like the only reason they even gave that line to Connor was just for the sake of having an AC4 reference.

Why include some Homesteaders if you're just going to change their voices completely? Godfrey didn't even sound Irish.

Connor never went mad with power like the devs hinted he would. Like Batistabus said, he never hurt innocent people if he could avoid it and never showed interest in the Apple until the very end (and even that may just have been Washington projecting his own thoughts on to Connor). He became maybe a tiny bit more arrogant and reckless than the "real" Connor would be, but he never lost his way like Ziio's ghost kept warning him. So basically drinking the tea only had benefits and no downsides.

The devs also said Connor would ultimately have to make a choice whether he wanted to stay in this alternate timeline or go back to his own. That never happened. There was no choice. Connor's only goal was to stop Washington and as soon as he did, the dream ended.

The only things I was really impressed with were the interior of the pyramid and and the sky journey with the bear. The boss battle was cool too, but if what Batistabus says is right, it's impossible to lose which is pretty lame.

Does this mean that the story fell apart? :O

FirestarLuva
04-25-2013, 12:52 AM
There were just so many things in this DLC that didn't work well. There were a bunch of things in the narrative that came out of nowhere and just didn't make sense. This is supposed to be a warning from the apple about a potential future with Washington as king, yet somehow it was plausible for Connor to have super powers, despite literally nothing else supernatural in the DLC. I know that has more to do with gameplay, so I can let it slide even if it doesn't make sense with the overall narrative.

Why does this take place in a completely alternate timeline? Shouldn't it just pick up after the war if this is meant to be a plausible outcome? If so, what was the point in having Connor retain his memory? Out of nowhere, Connor suddenly wants to rule with the Apple. Since when? They make this seem like a huge struggle towards the end, but neither in AC3 nor the DLC has Connor expressed any interest in controlling people (quite the opposite, actually). Connor feels guilty for drinking the tea even though there were no negative side effects. Ziio kept haunting his spirit journeys, but why should he feel guilty? He likes the power more than he probably should, but he isn't hurting innocents or people he cares about...he's using his abilities 100% for good. Why was the final battle against Washington impossible to lose? This was AC's one true chance at having an actual huge traditional boss battle, and they threw it away. Why make a freaking awesome pyramid that you just run straight through without any good puzzles (aside from the key one that takes 10 seconds to figure out)? The founding fathers in this DLC were incredibly bland (aside from Washington obviously), and the homesteaders might as well have not been included. This is meant to be canon, but why does it even matter? It doesn't progress Connor's character at all, and didn't even really show off much of his personality in the first place.

Aside from major issues, there are a few minor ones that bothered me. Why does Mr. Faulkner never question why Connor takes the wheel? Why does some random NPC sail the Aquila when Connor goes to dump the apple? Why did Franklin need a special metal to make a key? Why only include fan favorites like Achilles and Haytham in one-liners? There are implications about their fate, but they're both summed up in a passing mention (especially Achilles, who you might not even hear about).

For me, this DLC had a lot of great ideas. Some ideas worked extremely well, but unfortunately, the vast majority of them were not implemented to their full potential.

I agree with most of your points, but I'd like to add my own opinion about some;
Why Connor wanted to use the Apple and become ruler all of a sudden? I'll put it short; it's because of the powers. We never saw Connor fully go mad because he was constantly struggling not to lose himself. He was trying to maintain balance between his assassin and native side or good and bad side. The struggle was obvious in all episodes. E.g. one moment he has Franklin pinned to the ground ready to murder him, the next he acts nicely to him and listens to what he says. He's elated to see his friend Kanen again but then snaps at him during the boat scene or didn't even care much about his death. Or the final battle, he first calls GW 'commander', and even says he'll spare him if he gives up the apple, yet shortly after he's ready to kill Washington and take the Apple for himself
Yes, the Apple didn't show many negative effects or the kind of madness we were expecting (e.g killing civillians) but I think the reason Ziio scolded him was because she was afraid of what he'll do when he finally has the Apple because she knows the spirit journeys do nothing but make him lose himself and he wouldn't be thinking with a clear mind when he finally has the Apple. I think Connor wanting to become the new ruler was the kind of madness the devs were hinting at.
As for the having a choice to stay or leave, I'm not sure what they meant by that. That's up to the devs to explain.
As for the DLC progressing Connor's character, well, the devs said they wanted to show a new side of Connor, or a struggle within him. I think Connor did learn something at the end though, he learnt what would happen to him if he used the Apple for himself, that he would go mad, which raises another interesting question. Why could Ezio and Altair use the Apple without suffering many major consequences, despite the health loss, while Connor would pursue a dark path in life? Does it have something to do with the 'you're the son of a mad of violence'? Since it's interesting to note, both Altair and Ezio's parents were 'good' people, while Haytham was a Templar. If you've read Forsaken Haytham even notes at one point how he'd been against the murder of innocents but now he was doing the same. He even wrote 'this is how corrupted I had become'.
These are my opinion, but overall, I agree with most of yours and SixKeys' opinions. :3

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 01:00 AM
I agree with most of your points, but I'd like to add my own opinion about some;
Why Connor wanted to use the Apple and become ruler all of a sudden? I'll put it short; it's because of the powers. We never saw Connor fully go mad because he was constantly struggling not to lose himself. He was trying to maintain balance between his assassin and native side or good and bad side. The struggle was obvious in all episodes. E.g. one moment he has Franklin pinned to the ground ready to murder him, the next he acts nicely to him and listens to what he says. He's elated to see his friend Kanen again but then snaps at him during the boat scene or didn't even care much about his death. Or the final battle, he first calls GW 'commander', and even says he'll spare him if he gives up the apple, yet shortly after he's ready to kill Washington and take the Apple for himself
Yes, the Apple didn't show many negative effects or the kind of madness we were expecting (e.g killing civillians) but I think the reason Ziio scolded him was because she was afraid of what he'll do when he finally has the Apple because she knows the spirit journeys do nothing but make him lose himself and he wouldn't be thinking with a clear mind when he finally has the Apple. I think Connor wanting to become the new ruler was the kind of madness the devs were hinting at.
As for the having a choice to stay or leave, I'm not sure what they meant by that. That's up to the devs to explain.
As for the DLC progressing Connor's character, well, the devs said they wanted to show a new side of Connor, or a struggle within him. I think Connor did learn something at the end though, he learnt what would happen to him if he used the Apple for himself, that he would go mad, which raises another interesting question. Why could Ezio and Altair use the Apple without suffering many major consequences, despite the health loss, while Connor would pursue a dark path in life? Does it have something to do with the 'you're the son of a mad of violence'? Since it's interesting to note, both Altair and Ezio's parents were 'good' people, while Haytham was a Templar. If you've read Forsaken Haytham even notes at one point how he'd been against the murder of innocents but now he was doing the same. He even wrote 'this is how corrupted I had become'.
These are my opinion, but overall, I agree with most of yours and SixKeys' opinions. :3
Hey.....stop that....you`re making me think dammit and If i start thinking too much and discover that MAYBE I forgot something.........i`ll to watch the whole thing again D:

I`m warning you....if I end up watching the entire Tyranny again.....i`ll find you :|

on-topic: I think this is just like AC III again. most expected an "in your face" madness with Connor, but again, it was mostly subtle...in the lines, in the silence and the stutter "I would...use it for the good of everyone" "But you didn't answer the question" "With a few carrots, he has won their loyalty" "The people want you brought down" "When you shake the earth, do you feel like a slave to the people ? or do you want to be their ruler ?" "We`ll replace Washington with a new ruler" "The true rulers are the people" "May I see it ?" "YOU`RE NOT THINKING CLEARLY" "A burden and a blessing" The bear power can harm innocent and enemy alike....hint hint ?

​huh.....looks like I may do a video about this

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 01:01 AM
The struggle was obvious in all episodes. E.g. one moment he has Franklin pinned to the ground ready to murder him, the next he acts nicely to him and listens to what he says. He's elated to see his friend Kanen again but then snaps at him during the boat scene or didn't even care much about his death. Or the final battle, he first calls GW 'commander', and even says he'll spare him if he gives up the apple, yet shortly after he's ready to kill Washington and take the Apple for himself
Yes, the Apple didn't show many negative effects or the kind of madness we were expecting (e.g killing civillians) but I think the reason Ziio scolded him was because she was afraid of what he'll do when he finally has the Apple because she knows the spirit journeys do nothing but make him lose himself and he wouldn't be thinking with a clear mind when he finally has the Apple. I think Connor wanting to become the new ruler was the kind of madness the devs were hinting at.
I honestly don't see how any of this needs the animal powers as an explanation. He wanted to kill Franklin because he works for Washington, but when he found out that he was willing to help, he stopped. I wouldn't say he snapped at Kanen'to:kon at all. As far as his death is concerned, he wasn't really upset about the death of his mother either, despite that being before he drank the tea at all. He had already accepted their deaths. The part where Connor wants the Apple for himself is what I'm talking about...there was no legitimate build up to Connor making that decision.


on-topic: I think this is just like AC III again. most expected an "in your face" madness with Connor, but again, it was mostly subtle...in the lines, in the silence and the stutter "I would...use it for the good of everyone" "But you didn't answer the question" "With a few carrots, he has won their loyalty" "The people want you brought down" "When you shake the earth, do you feel like a slave to the people ? or do you want to be their ruler ?"
Yes, except that doesn't happen until the very last scene. There was nothing hinting at Connor having those thoughts beforehand.

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 01:05 AM
I honestly don't see how any of this needs the animal powers as an explanation. He wanted to kill Franklin because he works for Washington, but when he found out that he was willing to help, he stopped. I wouldn't say he snapped at Kanen'to:kon at all. As far as his death is concerned, he wasn't really upset about the death of his mother either, despite that being before he drank the tea at all. He had already accepted their deaths. The part where Connor wants the Apple for himself is what I'm talking about...there was no legitimate build up to Connor making that decision.
actually Connor was pissed at his mother`s death...MOTHER !! No ?



Yes, except that doesn't happen until the very last scene. There was nothing hinting at Connor having those thoughts beforehand.
There is actually, but like i said....subtle

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 01:09 AM
actually Connor was pissed at his mother`s death...MOTHER !! No ?

There is actually, but like i said....subtle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Sq-oHENLTYg#t=779s

The game hints at something being wrong with the tea (in the Sky Journeys with Ziio), but we never see Connor act in a way that demonstrates he is affected by it. I'm someone who was 100% for the subtlety of AC3, but it just wasn't done properly in The Tyranny.

FirestarLuva
04-25-2013, 01:11 AM
actually Connor was pissed at his mother`s death...MOTHER !! No ?



There is actually, but like i said....subtle

Yes, I doubt all those scenes with Ziio saying you've lost yourself, you're led astray were in vain. All those powers made Connor lose his own spirit, by the end he let his 'other' side take over. Which is why I think Connor dropped the Apple in the ocean. He didn't want to become what he saw. But it still doesn't make sense why would the Apple influence Connor more than Altair and Ezio?

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 01:16 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Sq-oHENLTYg#t=779s

The game hints at something being wrong with the tea (in the Sky Journeys with Ziio), but we never see Connor act in a way that demonstrates he is affected by it. I'm someone who was 100% for the subtlety of AC3, but it just wasn't done properly in The Tyranny.
Well yes, he took it well LATER, but it was clear that he was pissed when he saw her collapse..i mean...You dont scream mother and breathe hard while running if you`re not at least uncomfortable :P

I`m not saying you`re not for subtlety, but it can be missed...i`ll give you an example...when Connor gets his wolf power..it`s pretty clear that he became a lot more cocky, "No one will stop me with such power"He also abruptly stops Kanen from drinking the tea and gaining powers... didn't you think that was weird ??

to be honest, i understand where you`re coming from...they teased a Frodo vs Gollum for the ring moment and that`s even what I expected too, I think i talked about it in an early thread xD

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 01:19 AM
Yes, I doubt all those scenes with Ziio saying you've lost yourself, you're led astray were in vain. All those powers made Connor lose his own spirit, by the end he let his 'other' side take over. Which is why I think Connor dropped the Apple in the ocean. He didn't want to become what he saw. But it still doesn't make sense why would the Apple influence Connor more than Altair and Ezio?
Well....Altair obsessed over the Apple for many years and Ezio didn't use it that much...he only used it about 5 or 6 times....Altair had it most of his life and it changed his life a lot...he became obsessed

Echwaz
04-25-2013, 01:19 AM
Yes, I doubt all those scenes with Ziio saying you've lost yourself, you're led astray were in vain. All those powers made Connor lose his own spirit, by the end he let his 'other' side take over. Which is why I think Connor dropped the Apple in the ocean. He didn't want to become what he saw. But it still doesn't make sense why would the Apple influence Connor more than Altair and Ezio?

not all the apples need have the same abilities and properties or it could be a genetic difference between Ezio Altiar and Connor(being the first Civ genes); Connor may have had a fair amount but not as much as Ezio and Altiar did, and even than Altiar couldn't will himself to destroy the apple (which Connor somewhat did)

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 01:20 AM
Well yes, he took it well LATER, but it was clear that he was pissed when he saw her collapse..i mean...You dont scream mother and breathe hard while running if you`re not at least uncomfortable :P

I`m not saying you`re not for subtlety, but it can be missed...i`ll give you an example...when Connor gets his wolf power..it`s pretty clear that he became a lot more cocky, "No one will stop me with such power"He also abruptly stops Kanen from drinking the tea and gaining powers... didn't you think that was weird ??

to be honest, i understand where you`re coming from...they teased a Frodo vs Gollum for the ring moment and that`s even what I expected too, I think i talked about it in an early thread xD
I'm not denying he was upset by it, but to be fair, his mother is probably a little more important to him than Kanen'to:kon. Also, he lost his mother at a young age, while he killed Kanen at a much more mature point in his life.

I do agree that he was enjoying the power a little too much, but he didn't do anything destructive with it (well, literally he did, but you know what I mean). Just because he likes being powerful, that doesn't automatically mean he wants to control other humans...he just wants to be unstoppable. I don't see strength and authority as inherently linked.

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 01:20 AM
not all the apples need have the same abilities and properties or it could be a genetic difference between Ezio Altiar and Connor(being the first Civ genes); Connor may have had a fair amount but not as much as Ezio and Altiar did, and even than Altiar couldn't will himself to destroy the apple (which Connor somewhat did)
Yeah, Connor and Ezio abandoned it...Altair pretty much died "guarding" it...

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 01:24 AM
I'm not denying he was upset by it, but to be fair, his mother is probably a little more important to him than Kanen'to:kon. Also, he lost his mother at a young age, while he killed Kanen at a much more mature point in his life.

I do agree that he was enjoying the power a little too much, but he didn't do anything destructive with it (well, literally he did, but you know what I mean). Just because he likes being powerful, that doesn't automatically mean he wants to control other humans...he just wants to be unstoppable. I don't see strength and authority as inherently linked.
Of course they`re linked:D

That`s how a bully is created....A man commands tremendous power and there no one to use it on, sure Connor has an enemy, but the peace in GW`s dream pushed him to become King....who to turn to ?? that`s right, the weak...in time, they`ll offer something to be spared the bullying causing everyone else to do the same, thus creating a tyrant who`s above everyone...it`s a process

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 01:30 AM
Of course they`re linked:D

That`s how a bully is created....A man commands tremendous power and there no one to use it on, sure Connor has an enemy, but the peace in GW`s dream pushed him to become King....who to turn to ?? that`s right, the weak...in time, they`ll offer something to be spared the bullying causing everyone else to do the same, thus creating a tyrant who`s above everyone...it`s a process
Freedom is at the core of Connor's being; it's something that defines him, and not something he chooses because it is right. Even if he had power, he would never choose to do this. MMA fighters may be able to defeat normal human beings in a fight, but that doesn't mean they want to govern them. If you've ever seen Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta and Goku want to be the strongest fighters in the world, but neither of them want to use that power to impose their will onto others. With the path the game seemed to be setting, the worst I could see Connor doing is giving the tea to others so he can fight someone on his level.

I like how Ubisoft keeps pushing that Connor and Washington are kindred spirits and very similar in a lot of ways, but I don't think they demonstrated it well in this instance.

Spider_Sith9
04-25-2013, 01:31 AM
Yes, I doubt all those scenes with Ziio saying you've lost yourself, you're led astray were in vain. All those powers made Connor lose his own spirit, by the end he let his 'other' side take over. Which is why I think Connor dropped the Apple in the ocean. He didn't want to become what he saw. But it still doesn't make sense why would the Apple influence Connor more than Altair and Ezio?I think the part where it makes sense that he finally lost himself was the ending. Long story short without spoilers: It links with the loading screen.

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 01:35 AM
Freedom is at the core of Connor's being; it's something that defines him, and not something he chooses because it is right. Even if he had power, he would never choose to do this. MMA fighters may be able to defeat normal human beings in a fight, but that doesn't mean they want to govern them. If you've ever seen Dragon Ball Z, Vegeta and Goku want to be the strongest fighters in the world, but neither of them want to use that power to impose their will onto others. With the path the game seemed to be setting, the worst I could see Connor doing is giving the tea to others so he can fight someone on his level.

I like how Ubisoft keeps pushing that Connor and Washington are kindred spirits and very similar in a lot of ways, but I don't think they demonstrated it well in this instance.
DBZ is pretty far out in terms of reality xD also, Goku is portrayed as an EXTREMELY idealistic hero...he`s the ultimate hero, because of a bump to the head and Vegeta ?? come on...it`s just Goku`s influence xD Same as Piccolo :P

You have to remember that some MMA fighters get into a lot of real life incidents...some of them are described as arrogant, that`s where Connor comes in...goku doesn't go to Vegeta`s face and says "Yo...i`m much stronger than you..i own you" or even talks it to himself and says "with this power...no one will stop me" no matter how much Goku surpassed Vegeta, he never even whispered it to himself....he doesn't even use SS3 mode against Majin Vegeta, because he knows He`d take out vegeta easily in that form and he didn't want to break his pride...I still understand that Connor didn't show much madness with power, but there were some small subtle lines that make me think otherwise, because like I said...it`s a process

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 02:47 AM
DBZ is pretty far out in terms of reality xD also, Goku is portrayed as an EXTREMELY idealistic hero...he`s the ultimate hero, because of a bump to the head and Vegeta ?? come on...it`s just Goku`s influence xD Same as Piccolo :P

You have to remember that some MMA fighters get into a lot of real life incidents...some of them are described as arrogant, that`s where Connor comes in...goku doesn't go to Vegeta`s face and says "Yo...i`m much stronger than you..i own you" or even talks it to himself and says "with this power...no one will stop me" no matter how much Goku surpassed Vegeta, he never even whispered it to himself....he doesn't even use SS3 mode against Majin Vegeta, because he knows He`d take out vegeta easily in that form and he didn't want to break his pride...I still understand that Connor didn't show much madness with power, but there were some small subtle lines that make me think otherwise, because like I said...it`s a process
Goku and Connor actually have quite a bit in common; they're both idealistic, childish, niece, have unbreakable spirits. Though I suppose those comments by Connor sound more like something Vegeta would say. Even as a prince, he doesn't really seem to want anything to do with people below him.

DBZ aside, I can definitely see how the powers may have been detrimental to Connor at some point even if they're not in the Tyranny. I can't see that demise coming from a desire to rule others.

Assassin_M
04-25-2013, 02:55 AM
Goku and Connor actually have quite a bit in common; they're both idealistic, childish, niece, have unbreakable spirits. Though I suppose those comments by Connor sound more like something Vegeta would say. Even as a prince, he doesn't really seem to want anything to do with people below him.

DBZ aside, I can definitely see how the powers may have been detrimental to Connor at some point even if they're not in the Tyranny. I can't see that demise coming from a desire to rule others.
Oh Certainly, I can see a lot of Goku in Connor...Both very Idealistic heroes..only difference is the Stoicism...Goku is always happy and cheerful, while Connor is a bit gloomy, although that slight laugh when he mentions Edward was nice to hear :D

But I can see where you`re coming from and I agree with so many of your points...

hoodrat94
04-25-2013, 04:11 AM
It was sort of like Bonfire of vanities, creating chaos throughout the city!
Respect for connor increased by 10%!

I-Like-Pie45
04-25-2013, 04:57 AM
I want to know what happened to Connor in-between DLC and AC3. I mean, Haytham's journal didn't tell him that Edward was a man of the seas. He had to have found out some other way...

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 05:26 AM
I want to know what happened to Connor in-between DLC and AC3. I mean, Haytham's journal didn't tell him that Edward was a man of the seas. He had to have found out some other way...
Achilles maybe?

WestLil0
04-25-2013, 05:33 AM
Can anyone tell me when the final part will be available? I purchased the season pass and see that the third installment seems to have been released already for PC but I have not received the usual e mail with the link to download it.

thanks

I-Like-Pie45
04-25-2013, 05:35 AM
I hope we get another user-based Q&A with the Tyranny devs sometime.

Would like to hear their reasoning why Haytham, Achilles, and others didn't appear or why so many had their voice actors changed.

Jack_Pirate
04-25-2013, 06:20 AM
I personally think this DLC was half-donkeyed (see what i did there) to make some easy cash. And it is so dumbed down compared to other AC games. I like the old controls better.

vat95
04-25-2013, 06:24 AM
Aside from many other things already mentioned in this thread, what was the point of having Connor put up his blade and tomahawk in the first memory fragment but when him and Washington "snap out of it" he's magically wearing his tomahawk again....?

On the bright side, he wasn't limping or still holding his side from the injury he got at the end of the main game, haha.

Jack_Pirate
04-25-2013, 06:33 AM
Aside from many other things already mentioned in this thread, what was the point of having Connor put up his blade and tomahawk in the first memory fragment but when him and Washington "snap out of it" he's magically wearing his tomahawk again....?

On the bright side, he wasn't limping or still holding his side from the injury he got at the end of the main game, haha.

Nor did he have his mohawk

VitaminsXYZ
04-25-2013, 06:39 AM
Nor did he have his mohawk

His hair grows really fast. Who are we to judge?

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 07:19 AM
His hair grows really fast. Who are we to judge?
Another thing that I'm still confused about is when this game takes place. At the beginning of The Infamy, Connor remarks that Washington has already retired to Mount Vernon and stepped down from the presidency, so this would make the Tyranny take place 8 years after the end of AC3 (making Connor 35!). However, at the end of The Redemption, Washington appears to be in his office signing papers as an acting president.

Edit: This is completely wrong. Washington was president from 1789 to 1797, but that's not even relevant because he "retires" before even becoming president. Sheesh...and I call myself an American.

VitaminsXYZ
04-25-2013, 07:40 AM
Another thing that I'm still confused about is when this game takes place. At the beginning of The Infamy, Connor remarks that Washington has already retired to Mount Vernon and stepped down from the presidency, so this would make the Tyranny take place 8 years after the end of AC3 (making Connor 35!). However, at the end of The Redemption, Washington appears to be in his office signing papers as an acting president.

Wait, didn't Washington retire to Mount Vernon around 1783 or 1784? So Connor should still be in his 20s during the DLC.

vat95
04-25-2013, 07:48 AM
Another thing that I'm still confused about is when this game takes place. At the beginning of The Infamy, Connor remarks that Washington has already retired to Mount Vernon and stepped down from the presidency, so this would make the Tyranny take place 8 years after the end of AC3 (making Connor 35!). However, at the end of The Redemption, Washington appears to be in his office signing papers as an acting president.

Connor never called him president though, he always referred to him still as commander. Although that probably means squat. :nonchalance: It's annoying that they didn't give a specific year but if I had to take a guess it would be around this time:


Washington's retirement to Mount Vernon was short-lived. He made an exploratory trip to the western frontier in 1784,[65] was persuaded to attend the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia in the summer of 1787, and was unanimously elected president of the Convention.

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington#United_States_Constitution)

That's just a guess though so who knows, I'd be a little bummed out if they really aged Connor that much in this DLC....

BATISTABUS
04-25-2013, 07:51 AM
Nope, you're right. I completely forgot he retired to Mount Vernon after the war, became president for eight years, and then retired once more. My bad. They are certainly referring to that in the DLC. Even so, I'm confused by what Washington was doing at the end. If he's struggling with the dilemma of what to do with the position he has been given, he must certainly at least be one year into his presidency (6 years after the end of AC3, Connor would be 33). He did participate in the Continental Congress (and was put off by all of the disagreement), so it would make sense for the game to take place at this time. Even so, I see it as a bit strange that he would be debating ruling the nation as a king at this point. Hopefully we can get official confirmation about this at some point.

FirestarLuva
04-25-2013, 10:36 PM
I think the part where it makes sense that he finally lost himself was the ending.

If you meant the scene with the throne and two Connors then, yes I agree. This gets me thinking though...a sequel to TOKW where we see a corrupted Ratonhnhake:ton as the new ruler after taking the Apple, since that's when the alternate reality ends. XD
I wonder who we'll play as in order to stop Connor. Haytham perhaps? That way we'll get that Haytham DLC everyone wants. :P

I-Like-Pie45
04-25-2013, 11:56 PM
I'd rather have them adapt Forsaken into a DLC if they were to make something with Haytham, although I do wish to know just what happened to Haytham and the koo-koo Templar krew in this alternate reality.

Maybe fanfiction writers will take care of that.

CalledChip4200
04-26-2013, 03:07 AM
That Desmond bit....i`m just as lost as everyone else :|

That lucid memory was really trippy. I think maybe that particular memory has something to do with the apple and that's why Connor was able to see it. I like how Ubisoft always leaves something for individual interpretation.


Oh and one thing confuses me. Washington said he receives the Apple from an officer, whose face he can't remember. And at the end of the DLC we saw a mysterious guy whose face is unclear. That makes me think, is the guy we saw at the ending and the officer one? Can anybody please explain? I'm so curious about this.

I thought Washington was only hallucinating at the end when that man enters his room due to the effects of the apple but then Washington says he got it from an officer. I'm curious too. Who was the man that entered Washington's room?

jenyto
04-26-2013, 03:30 AM
Hm I think that towards the end, the Apple tried to stop Connor from taken it with illusions of his friend and mom telling him not to take it. And I think his Assassin self appeared to tell him to take it in order to escape the illusions.

anyway, what's the deal with Connor's blue eyes?

Kaweebo
04-26-2013, 04:26 AM
anyway, what's the deal with Connor's blue eyes?

He got it from the Bear power, I believe.

jenyto
04-26-2013, 04:32 AM
He got it from the Bear power, I believe.
Ya i know that, but I wonder why.
Perhaps a sign of madness or something.

CalledChip4200
04-26-2013, 05:42 AM
Ya i know that, but I wonder why.
Perhaps a sign of madness or something.

I don't know if this is legit but I found this:


The thing with the blue eyes, there is part of that stayed throughout the development, because I don't know if you noticed, but when Ratohnhaké:ton gets his first power he gets war paint tattoos, then he gets more tattoos in the second episode, and then when he gets his last power, his eyes turn blue.

From http://www.xbox360achievements.org/news/news-14158-Assassin-s-Creed-III--The-Tyranny-of-King-Washington-Interview--Marc-Alexis-Côté---“At-One-Point-We-Had-Lightning-Coming-Out-of-Connor-s-Eyes-”.html

I was also curious about his eyes turning blue

I-Like-Pie45
04-26-2013, 05:54 AM
So basically, Connor was supposed to be:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/64409/1187623-raiden.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dhl8N9MBVM4/TpvXyfbkR5I/AAAAAAAAGFA/hGgOiXza5X0/s1600/kingdomcome.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-fBPCvkrCHTI/UMqN2bCtw6I/AAAAAAAAtKk/kXNw5k4zqro/s1600/Ultimate_Thor_by_limabean01.jpg

I'd play that.

VitaminsXYZ
04-26-2013, 06:47 AM
The blue eyes might simply just be for the "cool" factor.

And they did look cool.

Locopells
04-26-2013, 06:14 PM
That lucid memory was really trippy. I think maybe that particular memory has something to do with the apple and that's why Connor was able to see it. I like how Ubisoft always leaves something for individual interpretation.

It might possibly relate to the stuff that Juno showed him. That or some kind of corruption from when Desmond's memories were uploaded to the cloud.


Who was the man that entered Washington's room?

If he was real, most likely a Templar. Otherwise, probably a decendant of the one at the end of Embers...

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 06:21 PM
If he was real, most likely a Templar. Otherwise, probably a decendant of the one at the end of Embers...
He was not real...it`s an illusion made by the apple`s effects....

Locopells
04-26-2013, 06:42 PM
Hence the 'If'. Personally I subscribe to the hallucination by Apple theory.

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 06:44 PM
Hence the 'If'. Personally I subscribe to the hallucination by Apple theory.
Sorry, somehow missed the "if"

Locopells
04-26-2013, 07:21 PM
No matter.

ACfan443
04-26-2013, 07:49 PM
I really hope that lucid memory with Desmond is touched upon later, I found that very confusing :/

SixKeys
04-26-2013, 08:52 PM
I think the man in Washington's office was symbolic, not an illusion created by the Apple or whatever. Washington was talking to his own "dark side" or temptation and convincing himself why he should never go down that road.

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 08:55 PM
I think the man in Washington's office was symbolic, not an illusion created by the Apple or whatever. Washington was talking to his own "dark side" or temptation and convincing himself why he should never go down that road.
Well the reason i`m saying it was caused by the apple, is because the man disappears the moment Connor drops the Apple...maybe i`m wrong

SixKeys
04-26-2013, 08:56 PM
Well the reason i`m saying it was caused by the apple, is because the man disappears the moment Connor drops the Apple...

I think that's just clever editing. To symbolize that the Apple's hold on Washington is definitively defeated. I don't think it's because Connor dropped the Apple at that exact moment.

waynedavies89
04-26-2013, 09:14 PM
I think that's just clever editing. To symbolize that the Apple's hold on Washington is definitively defeated. I don't think it's because Connor dropped the Apple at that exact moment.

I'll agree with that, no doubt its symbolic editing.
A question I have is how, if at all, will this tie into AC4? Conner mentions Edward for the first time and the apple in the DLC just comes out of nowhere as a narrative device.
Was mentioning Edward it just a wink and will this Apple be a threat in AC4?

SixKeys
04-26-2013, 09:19 PM
I'll agree with that, no doubt its symbolic editing.
A question I have is how, if at all, will this tie into AC4? Conner mentions Edward for the first time and the apple in the DLC just comes out of nowhere as a narrative device.
Was mentioning Edward it just a wink and will this Apple be a threat in AC4?

Not possible. Connor lived after Edward.

waynedavies89
04-26-2013, 09:39 PM
Not possible. Connor lived after Edward.

My logic is that, the Apple must have been somewhere before the DLC and it must have been really pissed, or at least linked, with the Kenway's to do that to Conner and Washington

SixKeys
04-26-2013, 10:11 PM
My logic is that, the Apple must have been somewhere before the DLC and it must have been really pissed, or at least linked, with the Kenway's to do that to Conner and Washington

The Apple didn't "do" anything. It's not like the One Ring. It's just a piece of technology, like a computer. It doesn't have memories of its wielders.

waynedavies89
04-26-2013, 10:50 PM
The Apple didn't "do" anything. It's not like the One Ring. It's just a piece of technology, like a computer. It doesn't have memories of its wielders.

Why not? These things were built to control the first human slaves, so why wouldn't it keep some kind of DNA database of who its come into contact with?
It must be sentient to some degree, I'm not talking about Skynet style lol, but its consumed and corrupted so many and share great secrets and shown things to others. Altair even talked about it as if it was alive in an abstract way

Sick_one12
04-26-2013, 10:52 PM
Im sorry but can someone explain those lucid memories to me?do they represent what happened in the original ACIII timeline?

And what makes the Desmond one so special?Maybe those lucid memories are Desmonds and not Connors?So it could be that Desmond subconcious is expierencing TOKW and the Desmond lucid memory is a memory of him physically "dying" but his mind is still stored in the temple-pedestral? since his body is not "worm food" yet and Abstergo took it I think its absolute possible that his mind can still return to his body somehow....maybe we see that at the end of ACIV and he'll assassinate "us(The Abstergo employee")

I mean how awesome would it be if at the end of ACIV the Abstego building is being secured because of "something",the alert and flashing red lights hit and we try to escape in first person and before escaping we suddenly stop moving...look down and have a hidden blade pierced through us. The last moment of "our life" should be turning around and see Desmond right infront of us then fall and die....BOOM ENDING

Well there must be a reason for desmond coming there and kill us but thats UBIs task and I think that would be quite an awesome twist and a great cliffhanger for once(AC games arent going to stop anyway)

The circumstances of Desmond coming back could be explained in rising phoenix...or do we already know what that will be about?

I know some people dont like Desmond to come back but i guess the majority does after THAT ending.I think that would be a great way to bring him back:DWhat do you guys think?

I also think that it feels like a slap to the face that after everything we went through with Desmond and his special bloodline that his dna memories can now be accesed casually by everyone else at Abstergo.

If Ubi really wanted Desmond dead hey should have used a new modern day protagonist with his own ancestors IMO:D

waynedavies89
04-26-2013, 10:55 PM
I mean how awesome would it be if at the end of ACIV the Abstego building is being secured because of "something",the alert and flashing red lights hit and we try to escape in first person and before escaping we suddenly stop moving...look down and have a hidden blade pierced through us. The last moment of "our life" should be turning around and see Desmond right infront of us then fall and die....BOOM ENDING



Now that would be cool :D a great reveal

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 11:12 PM
Desmond is dead

Sick_one12
04-26-2013, 11:16 PM
Desmond is dead

Haha I knew you would be the first one to come and say this;) I can still wish right? You could say im still in the "denial" phase because believe it or not Desmond is my favorite videogame character:D

Besides,its not impossible in the AC universe for him to come back...even though it may be unlikely

Sick_one12
04-26-2013, 11:18 PM
sry double-post:p

Assassin_M
04-26-2013, 11:35 PM
Haha I knew you would be the first one to come and say this;) I can still wish right? You could say im still in the "denial" phase because believe it or not Desmond is my favorite videogame character:D

Besides,its not impossible in the AC universe for him to come back...even though it may be unlikely
Denial can be cured by bluntness..

Desmond is dead.....half burned even :|
http://gyazo.com/bfec6b8ed61c4989663c51bb6c2bcc04.png?1367015681

roostersrule2
04-26-2013, 11:40 PM
Haha I knew you would be the first one to come and say this;) I can still wish right? You could say im still in the "denial" phase because believe it or not Desmond is my favorite videogame character:D

Besides,its not impossible in the AC universe for him to come back...even though it may be unlikelyDo you like fish? In particular rotten swordfish?

Sick_one12
04-27-2013, 12:14 AM
Do you like fish? In particular rotten swordfish?

ive got a bad feeling about this....are you referring to that pirate123 or something forum member? XD

@M

argh my eyes I dont wanna see it or hear it lalalalalala;)

DisbandedBox359
04-27-2013, 01:47 AM
Im sorry but can someone explain those lucid memories to me?do they represent what happened in the original ACIII timeline?

And what makes the Desmond one so special?Maybe those lucid memories are Desmonds and not Connors?So it could be that Desmond subconcious is expierencing TOKW and the Desmond lucid memory is a memory of him physically "dying" but his mind is still stored in the temple-pedestral? since his body is not "worm food" yet and Abstergo took it I think its absolute possible that his mind can still return to his body somehow....maybe we see that at the end of ACIV and he'll assassinate "us(The Abstergo employee")

I mean how awesome would it be if at the end of ACIV the Abstego building is being secured because of "something",the alert and flashing red lights hit and we try to escape in first person and before escaping we suddenly stop moving...look down and have a hidden blade pierced through us. The last moment of "our life" should be turning around and see Desmond right infront of us then fall and die....BOOM ENDING

Well there must be a reason for desmond coming there and kill us but thats UBIs task and I think that would be quite an awesome twist and a great cliffhanger for once(AC games arent going to stop anyway)

The circumstances of Desmond coming back could be explained in rising phoenix...or do we already know what that will be about?

I know some people dont like Desmond to come back but i guess the majority does after THAT ending.I think that would be a great way to bring him back:DWhat do you guys think?

I also think that it feels like a slap to the face that after everything we went through with Desmond and his special bloodline that his dna memories can now be accesed casually by everyone else at Abstergo.

If Ubi really wanted Desmond dead hey should have used a new modern day protagonist with his own ancestors IMO:D

i want this ending so much

TinyTemplar
04-27-2013, 08:31 PM
The ending was... quite useless. And this fact disappointed me a bit. Don't shoot, okay?

lothario-da-be
04-27-2013, 08:46 PM
The ending was... quite useless. And this fact disappointed me a bit. Don't shoot, okay?
I agree, too maney questions unaswered.

TinyTemplar
04-27-2013, 09:00 PM
But I like new fresh gameplay details. It reminded me, that authors are not technically restricted to do everything they want. I felt a lot of creative freedom. And that was nice.

Now gameplay is good but story is weak ) Maybe they should hire more good writers )))

TinyTemplar
04-27-2013, 09:19 PM
I'll agree with that, no doubt its symbolic editing.
A question I have is how, if at all, will this tie into AC4? Conner mentions Edward for the first time and the apple in the DLC just comes out of nowhere as a narrative device.
Was mentioning Edward it just a wink and will this Apple be a threat in AC4?


Not possible. Connor lived after Edward.

Btw, previously someone told here in the thread, that the apple can travel in time (or I missed something). But what if the apple can actually travel in time?

montagemik
04-27-2013, 09:24 PM
I assumed in TOKW Connor's memories are being replayed by whoever hacked us at the end of AC3 .

I doubt Rebeccas animus 3.0 was linked to the internet or WI-FI hacked :rolleyes: So i assumed Desmond's memories were hacked in AC3 via his 'wristwatch' -
similar to the AC3 multiplayer Abstergo Angelus project perhaps - (they did give desmond some kind of medication in AC-1 didn't they = Angelus bio sync meds ? )

That would explain how/why the lucid memory of desmond at the pedestal was also recorded/downloaded along with Connor's memories (as Desmond wasn't in the animus at the time )

If everything is answered at the end of an AC game - that leaves little mystery to solve in the next AC games - So we were never gonna get ALL answers to these questions in AC3 , But this will be explained at some point i'm sure .

SixKeys
04-27-2013, 09:29 PM
Btw, previously someone told here in the thread, that the apple can travel in time (or I missed something). But what if the apple can actually travel in time?

How the hell would that be possible? If it could, then what would be the point of Altaïr sealing it away in a locked vault for Ezio to find 400 years later?

TinyTemplar
04-27-2013, 09:34 PM
How the hell would that be possible? If it could, then what would be the point of Altaïr sealing it away in a locked vault for Ezio to find 400 years later?
maybe in Bioshock way ) Maybe it's really alive thing that decides itself what to do? Maybe it's some kind of AI that creates new dimensions.

p.s. maybe Altair didn't know what the apple really can.

TinyTemplar
04-27-2013, 09:44 PM
But I believe, that the only reason we saw where Connor dropped the apple is that we're going to search for it in AC 4 present day.

SixKeys
04-27-2013, 10:25 PM
maybe in Bioshock way ) Maybe it's really alive thing that decides itself what to do? Maybe it's some kind of AI that creates new dimensions.

p.s. maybe Altair didn't know what the apple really can.

I'm saying that regardless of what Altaïr knew about the Apple, if it had a mind of its own and could travel in time, why the hell would the Apple choose to wait inside the vault for 400 years instead of just traveling in time to another place?

TinyTemplar
04-27-2013, 10:47 PM
I'm saying that regardless of what Altaïr knew about the Apple, if it had a mind of its own and could travel in time, why the hell would the Apple choose to wait inside the vault for 400 years instead of just traveling in time to another place?
I've already told you, maybe it can be in different places at the same moment) It's not a physical transfer.

Apple controls minds of humanity, perhaps all things that we saw is just an illusion. Past, present, future, the apple can be everywhere at the same time, every time, in every place.
As for 400 years in storage: possibly, by Apple's calculations, it was the only way to achieve a certain goal.
But at the same time, it does not just lay in Altair's hand. It exists somwhere else, creates illusions and controls them.

I don't tell that it's canon, it's just one of possible options of plot development.

And maybe, It didn't wait for 400 years, It just jumped through the time and Ezio found it, lol

SteelCity999
04-27-2013, 10:51 PM
I'm saying that regardless of what Altaïr knew about the Apple, if it had a mind of its own and could travel in time, why the hell would the Apple choose to wait inside the vault for 400 years instead of just traveling in time to another place?

I don't think the apple can travel in time, per say, but I do think you can infer what happened by looking at the last Twilight movie (courtesy of the wife, ugh). I think the apple has the ability to show the future given a certain choice, or at least the possibilities. What I took from the ending of TOKW was that Washington took hold of the apple and saw the possible future if he kept the apple. He didn't like what he saw, dropped the apple, and then told Connor to get rid of it. I think this lines up with the First Civs comments that they can see into the future through the nexus and even interact with it.

TinyTemplar
04-27-2013, 11:06 PM
I don't think the apple can travel in time, per say, but I do think you can infer what happened by looking at the last Twilight movie (courtesy of the wife, ugh). I think the apple has the ability to show the future given a certain choice, or at least the possibilities. What I took from the ending of TOKW was that Washington took hold of the apple and saw the possible future if he kept the apple. He didn't like what he saw, dropped the apple, and then told Connor to get rid of it. I think this lines up with the First Civs comments that they can see into the future through the nexus and even interact with it.
Is that what happened in Twilight movie?

AherasSTRG
04-27-2013, 11:59 PM
Anyone else having severe frame drops upon looking towards the pyramid?

Abeonis
04-28-2013, 04:59 PM
I'm saying that regardless of what Altaïr knew about the Apple, if it had a mind of its own and could travel in time, why the hell would the Apple choose to wait inside the vault for 400 years instead of just traveling in time to another place?

I don't know why people have suddenly started saying the Apple allows for time travel, because it doesn't. Only one Piece of Eden is known to permit time travel, and it isn't one of the Apples. Nor does the Apple have a mind of its own, it's a machine. Admittedly, it's a very smart piece of technology, but this is only because said technology was out inside it by the creator.

SixKeys
04-28-2013, 05:14 PM
I don't know why people have suddenly started saying the Apple allows for time travel, because it doesn't. Only one Piece of Eden is known to permit time travel, and it isn't one of the Apples. Nor does the Apple have a mind of its own, it's a machine. Admittedly, it's a very smart piece of technology, but this is only because said technology was out inside it by the creator.

With regard to this other PoE, did they specifically say it allows for time travel or just warping time somehow? Somehow I don't see time travel as such fitting into the AC universe, but I can picture a PoE that warps time (like slows down time allowing for faster reactions for its wielder) or shows you possible alternate timelines etc.

Farlander1991
04-28-2013, 05:21 PM
I think it's actually time travel, IIRC in AC1 there was an e-mail about Abstergo hiding it the hell away to avoid time paradoxes.

But I may be mistaken.

SixKeys
04-28-2013, 05:31 PM
I think it's actually time travel, IIRC in AC1 there was an e-mail about Abstergo hiding it the hell away to avoid time paradoxes.

But I may be mistaken.

There seems to have been some discussion about this on the forums earlier (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/606046-Numerous-pieces-of-Eden-%28SPOILER%29-Forums) but the Wiki doesn't appear to have specific information about which Piece this is referring to or what exactly its properties supposedly were/are. The thread mentions the Templars having tried an experiment where they tried to send a submarine forward in time. It kind of worked, kind of didn't. Apparently the submarine was able to travel a few seconds into the future. This is not too far-fetched as we know it can happen to astronauts in space. It's not really what most people consider "time travel", though. So I'm still not sure about the specifics of this time travel theory.

Farlander1991
04-28-2013, 05:33 PM
What submarine? I found on the wiki the e-mail I was remembering:


Philadelphia Project (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Philadelphia_Project) - Data provided from Animus Subject Twelve (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Subject_12) indicates that the ship briefly manifested in a future state for approximately 18 minutes. It is unclear whether the timeline is consistent with or parallel to our own. Although we have recovered enough data to reconstruct and repair the original artifact used in the experiment, Administration has refused to move forward on the project, citing paradox concerns. Corporate policy remains in place: any objects found to interfere with or manipulate time must be contained. Artifact will be moved to secure storage.

But it's about a destroyer, not a submarine.

montagemik
04-28-2013, 06:11 PM
Im sorry but can someone explain those lucid memories to me?do they represent what happened in the original ACIII timeline?

And what makes the Desmond one so special?Maybe those lucid memories are Desmonds and not Connors?


I assumed in TOKW Connor's memories are being replayed by whoever hacked us at the end of AC3 .

I doubt Rebecca's animus 3.0 was linked to the internet or WI-FI hacked.
So i assumed Desmond's memories were hacked in AC3 via his 'wristwatch' -
similar to the AC3 multiplayer Abstergo Angelus project perhaps - (they did give desmond some kind of medication in AC-1 didn't they = Angelus bio sync meds ? )

That would explain how/why the lucid memory of desmond at the pedestal was also recorded/downloaded & viewable along with Connor's memories
(as Desmond wasn't in the animus at the time he activated the pedestal)

If everything is answered at the end of an AC game - that leaves little mystery to solve in the next AC games - So we were never gonna get ALL answers to these questions in AC3 , But this will be explained at some point i'm sure .

ShardofTruth
04-28-2013, 06:52 PM
I must say I'm disappointed with this DLC in general, not as much as with The Lost Archive, but still.

The new abilities were okay I guess, the downside were the quadrupled enemy numbers. It's not fun to kill more than 20 enemies just to be able to open one chest, expecially since the combat in AC game was always kinda lame and is not really improved here, furthermore the other aspects of the game like exploration, side quests, free running are extremly dumbed down here.
Another weak point is the story, I knew what it was about since Episode 1, but the ending was still disappointing. There was basically nothing new to learn here, I hoped that there would be at least a nippet about the AC3 ending, but of course there was none. On top of that re-introducing dead characters just to kill them off again was a stupid move. I thought we would play a different Connor but in the end he helps the same people, lost the same friends and has the same motivation as in the original AC3. What was the point of this again?
Another thing that is strange is how all these known characters were mixed in the story (especially Washington's two generals) and the only two new characters were already killed off in Episode 1.

Also it would've been nice to unlock something for the main game here, at least the costume or something. Another missed opportunity I guess.

tldr; This expansion of AC3 felt extremly artifical and was pointless in every possible way.

VitaminsXYZ
04-28-2013, 08:39 PM
tldr; This expansion of AC3 felt extremly artifical and was pointless in every possible way.

I thought that was what they were going for - fun filler, and to not have DLC that would have too many plot points. In previous ACs, some people got mad at missing out on story that ended up in DLCs instead.

WarriorAegis
04-29-2013, 12:29 AM
I LOVED this DLC. Just beat it, and it was the best AC DLC ever.

I liked how Washington is made noble at the end of the DLC, where he doesn't want the Apple, he doesn't want to be King, he wants the republic to flourish with the people! I love it.

The question is... who was that guy tempting him?

TheOnlyEzio
04-29-2013, 07:14 AM
As someone already said, i'm pretty sure the guy at the end was just symbolic to show that there was some part of washington that wanted the apple

Dead1y-Derri
04-29-2013, 04:58 PM
I felt somewhat disappointed with this and all AC3 single player content. It was short, lacking in any kind of story and overall felt really easy to complete.

Krayus Korianis
04-29-2013, 07:45 PM
As someone already said, i'm pretty sure the guy at the end was just symbolic to show that there was some part of washington that wanted the apple
Yes, and it attested to his affirmation to not want to be King of the newborn country.

lothario-da-be
04-29-2013, 08:06 PM
I felt somewhat disappointed with this and all AC3 single player content. It was short, lacking in any kind of story and overall felt really easy to complete.
It wasen't easier then ac2 and acb imo.