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Carnage2681
06-19-2004, 01:43 PM
Mr. Maddox

After 3 Years of Il2 this is my first Post in this Forum

Its nearly impossible to attack a Bomber with Veteran or Ace AI with a german plane without getting glass full of oil.

I have never seen Oil on Mustang/Yak/Thunderbolt front glass.

Are they not using oil http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

This is a real problem like the Sniper Gunners on both sides.

Greetings from an First Hour Il2 Fan

Carnage2681
06-19-2004, 01:43 PM
Mr. Maddox

After 3 Years of Il2 this is my first Post in this Forum

Its nearly impossible to attack a Bomber with Veteran or Ace AI with a german plane without getting glass full of oil.

I have never seen Oil on Mustang/Yak/Thunderbolt front glass.

Are they not using oil http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

This is a real problem like the Sniper Gunners on both sides.

Greetings from an First Hour Il2 Fan

UF-Josse
06-19-2004, 01:52 PM
Good illustration in those 2 tracks

Just, "tourism" behind he111 with 2 planes :

bf109 and lagg3

The result is no the same http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.lesskinsajosse.france-simulation.com/vrac/testhe111.zip

VMF513_Sandman
06-19-2004, 04:33 PM
appears to me that besides the p-51, the 109's wind up gettin a face full of oil just by sneezing on it LOL

p1ngu666
06-19-2004, 04:58 PM
spitfire is actully worse
i dont even think spit had oilstuff ontop of nose but i could be wrong
109 had pipes and stuff :P

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VOL_Hans
06-19-2004, 05:32 PM
ALL of the aircraft with the oil leak effect are screwey.

I think the ONLY plane I have never seen that in would be the IL-2.

In the Bf-109, the oil could be washed off with the cleaners, in the other aircraft, i'm sure that the air moveing over the canopy at a few hundred KMH would do SOMETHING to start to smear it thinner after a minute or two.

Basacally, i'm saying the initial "splash" of oil is correct, but it should start to clear off.

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2004, 06:13 PM
This is just the latest "apply full effect to 109s, give others a pass" attempt to neuter the Bf109; an effective one, too, as I get oilscreened much more often than I'd like.

Look at the list, which reflects the "crosses" the 109s have been chosen to bear over the life of IL-2/FB/AEP:

1) Smeared Erla Haube
2) Overdone "concrete elevator"
3) Banana-peel snapstall In Fs and Gs
4) Oil spattering

The first three have all been slowly repealed over many version upgrades. Let's hope the fourth one gets reduced to believable frequency.

Nub_322Sqn
06-19-2004, 06:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
This is just the latest "apply full effect to 109s, give others a pass" attempt to neuter the Bf109; an effective one, too, as I get oilscreened much more often than I'd like.

Look at the list, which reflects the "crosses" the 109s have been chosen to bear over the life of IL-2/FB/AEP:

1) Smeared Erla Haube
2) Overdone "concrete elevator"
3) Banana-peel snapstall In Fs and Gs
4) Oil spattering

The first three have all been slowly repealed over many version upgrades. Let's hope the fourth one gets reduced to believable frequency.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact that you think it's all bias says enough.

It's pretty obvious you didn't fly the Spitfires enough yet, not to mention the engine on fire after one small MG hit.

Besides, I have seen it happen on plenty of planes, even the ones the initial poster listed as "never seen it happen".

Another conspiracy theory post by Stiglr. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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VW-IceFire
06-19-2004, 06:32 PM
Please go and fly the Spitfire, the Mustang, and the Yak and then do exactly the same thing. The Spitfire and Mustang are just as vulnerable as the Bf 109 is to hits to the engine. Oil is everywhere, you can't see a bloody thing, and you are essentially out of the fight.

I've setup a number of low alt interception missions against He-111's, Ju-88's, and the like...I quite often take a single hit to the engine and poof...oil everywhere and I'm out.

Conversely, this doesn't happen much to the FW190 (which is the 50% of the rest of the Luftwaffe fighter force that so many of you are keen to forget or give a pass) nor to the P-47.

Obviously posts like these are done on a whim, without testing, without consideration, seemingly without having even tried the other sides aircraft more than the rare time.

As a pilot that flies both sides as often as possible (usually to balance sides in a Axis VS Allies dogfight server)...I see no disadvantage to flying a German plane and no advantage gained by flying a Allied fighter.

Some days I really start to wonder about a few of you...

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PlaneEater
06-19-2004, 08:35 PM
It might have something to do with the fact that the 109 had the oil reservoir under the front cowling right in front of the forward windscreen...

Menthol_moose
06-19-2004, 09:00 PM
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/457_1087700339_luftwhine.jpg

Try flying some other planes if you think it only happens to german ones .. jeez talk about a luftwhine.

Magister__Ludi
06-19-2004, 09:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PlaneEater:
It might have something to do with the fact that the 109 had the oil reservoir under the front cowling _right in front_ of the forward windscreen...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Only Emil has the oil tank in front of the windscreen. Later versions of Bf-109 and Fw-190 have the oil tank right after the prop, in front of the engine. On the other hand allied planes, like P-40, P-47, P-51, all have the oil tank right in front of the windshield.

Besides, 109 pilot could use a device that cleared the windscreen with fuel (of course not when the engine was on firehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). If Bf-109 was not better from this point of view it certainly wasn't worse as it is pictured in AEP. But then again, if you fly 109 for a long time, you will become used with this kind of "minor cripples" that appear/dissapear with each consecutive patch.

3.JG51_Stecher
06-19-2004, 09:47 PM
Flying the 190 more and more often, one thing I don't miss one bit is the 109's oil splatter. With the Emil it's accurate, but the other 109s should be just like the 190, without any splatter, or at least not that bad. With the Spit, we have just as bad of a splatter, and its oil tank is UNDER the engine. On the other hand we have the Mustang, which has a splatter much less inhibiting than either the Spit or the 109, yet it has both the oil tank and the hydraulic fluid reservoir right on top, in front of the windscreen. I like the effect itself, but some more accurate applications are clearly needed for all aircraft.

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plumps_
06-19-2004, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/457_1087700339_luftwhine.jpg

Try flying some other planes if you think it only happens to german ones .. jeez talk about a luftwhine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice move in the propaganda war -- do you have an 'Ameriwhiner' version of that picture that we can post in one of Gibbage's threads, just for the sake of balance? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Magister__Ludi
06-19-2004, 11:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:

Try flying some other planes if you think it only happens to german ones .. jeez talk about a luftwhine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No, it doesn't happen only on 109, but it happens much more often on 109, though it should not.
And in general DB605 is by far the weakest engine in AEP. Just try Bf-110 (without 30mm cannons) against 4 B-17 set on Veteran and tell us the results. Most of the time the plane is disabled on first shot, which is proves deadly to the engine. Though in reality Bf-110 was a very successful bomber destroyer in daylight until bombers got escort over Germany (until '44)

Just try to replicate their successes, see what happens.

P.S. I won't mention here that after '41 Bf-110 was used mostly as ground attack and light low level bomber. Do someone at Maddox Games think that a plane would have been used for ground attack if it bursted into flames with each shot it received into the engines?

Carnage2681
06-19-2004, 11:43 PM
With the starting post i don´t want to say that the "oil effect" is unrealistic.

But it happens to often ?

Some poeple talk about p51 with oil, i personaly have never seen it. Only on Spitfire.


Can somebody post a Picture with P40/Oil

Menthol_moose
06-20-2004, 12:22 AM
I think we are forgetting the basics here.

there is no point comparing the radial engines to the inline ones as the radials are tougher to stop.

The 109 is probably weaker than the 190 for that reason, just like the p51 fireballs very easily vs the P47.

Try flying the P51 for a while, its very prone to engine hits.

Luftcaca
06-20-2004, 12:41 AM
I think the real problem is about the M-105 engine
Now thats a one tough inline engine to damage in the Sim), especially on the Lagg3, go figure why

for some reason, on the Yaks, it can be disabled easier IF A HUMAN FLIES IT, but pretty tough to damage the engine of an AI Yak,

yes it happens from time to time, but compared to the Daimler Benz engines...

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Spectre-63
06-20-2004, 01:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/457_1087700339_luftwhine.jpg

Try flying some other planes if you think it only happens to german ones .. jeez talk about a luftwhine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you sure nailed that one on the head, Menthol - this whining vaguely reminds me so many parts of society now, where people convince themselves that whatever has happened isn't THEIR fault, it's because the odds were stacked against them in some way. In this case, it's not a case where the pilot made an error allowing his opponent to get in a critical blow...OF COURSE NOT! Everyone knows that just by virtue of strapping on a Luftwaffe fighter, you become SUPERIOR!

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Magister__Ludi
06-20-2004, 01:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
I think we are forgetting the basics here.

there is no point comparing the radial engines to the inline ones as the radials are tougher to stop.

The 109 is probably weaker than the 190 for that reason, just like the p51 fireballs very easily vs the P47.

Try flying the P51 for a while, its very prone to engine hits.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why DB605 is weaker than BMW-801 I understand. But please explain me why the smaller V-1650 or V-1710 are much more tougher than DB605.

Fly both Bf-110 and P-38 against 4 B-17 set on Veteran, 10 consecutive tries each. Tell us the results.

Menthol_moose
06-20-2004, 02:18 AM
ask oleg...

Im just sayin some aircaft are very prone to engine damage, to just say its a luft issue is wrong.

TooCool_12f
06-20-2004, 03:18 AM
about the 109: the engine is an "inverted V" engine, which means that the engine carter is on top of it (basically, where you have lots of oil) if the engine carter gets hit, it seems normal to me that oil splatters everywhere around


besides, on any inline engine, you have:

- oil (as any engine) which, if the engine is hit, will spit all around tyhe plane

- glycol (cooling liquid for those that don't know), which is also flammable and will spread and leak everywhere if the engine gets hit


these two will ignite quite easily, and that the main reason why liquid cooled engines are vulnerable


on air-cooled angines, there's oil in the carter (in the middle of the engine, but very little in the cylinders and no glycol at all.. they won't burn easily and can sustain much more damage...

LuftLuver
06-20-2004, 03:23 AM
Yes Stiggler,

This IS a conspiracy, but only YOUR 109s are coded this way, all others are fine. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

To the original luftwhine, do you want to be invulnerable? Surely that might make you happy. Nah, probably not.


PS: Try flying a Mustang for more than one mission. Engine oil on screen and one-shot golden bbs to the engine are a constant way of life for 51 pilots.

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
"All your bases are belong to us."

Carnage2681
06-20-2004, 03:27 AM
I not interested in undestroyable 109

When I fly on the red side, i fly American or GB

But as often reportet some german planes need only one hit to get gunsight destroyed. I don´t whant that Red planes get more "oil incidents" but it seems happen to much to could be real.

By the way, i have never probs with .50 in 2.01, one good salvo set an Fw190 on fire, but this seems to be a big problem for some guys.

Brain32
06-20-2004, 05:15 AM
Oil hits should be reduced on some other planes too, you should see how Spitfire looks like when oil splatters on its windshield(I had a screenshot but I lost it(don't ask what happened with it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif)) - same as ME109. Nevers saw that effect on ANY American plane though, but their gunsight gets shoot off easily http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif!!!



How about a Tempest only patch? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Bearcat99
06-20-2004, 06:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carnage2681:
Mr. Maddox
After 3 Years of Il2 this is my first Post in this Forum
Its nearly impossible to attack a Bomber with Veteran or Ace AI with a german plane without getting glass full of oil.
I have never seen Oil on Mustang/Yak/Thunderbolt front glass.
Are they not using oil http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
This is a real problem like the Sniper Gunners on both sides.
Greetings from an First Hour Il2 Fan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think Oleg would hinge his companies ergo his own reputation on the opinions of a bunch of armchair wannabe aeronautical engineers. While you bring up a point worthy of discussion the fact that you claim it to be a German plane bias renders your whole post invalid. You have never seen it on a P-47? You havent been flying it then. Or the Mustang... or the Yak for that matter.. all the planes do that. Try attacking HE111s in a P-47.. the same thing will happen if you arent careful except that since the P-47s FM has been ipmroved it is easier to attack bombers the way they should be attacked fast, hard and at angles on the fringes of thier gunners fireing range. These charges of Luftwaffe bias are so simpleminded as to be laughable. When 1C puts out a patch it is done more so because either people came up with credible FACTS to support thier assertions or 1C saw that there wqs a problem and fixed it. With a lot of practice I have actually gotten better at attacking bombers and NOT getting the windscreen full of oil. What I would like to see in this regard is oil fading away somewhat as a result of the speed of the AC.. and the effects of glycol on the glass... the fact that the oil goes on the glass and is not like a liquid is the issue.. it is more like a powder.....or a burn mark even........ that is the issue.. not the fact that it happens and it certainly by no stretch is even remotely confined to German AC either in frequency or intensity..

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Carnage2681
06-20-2004, 07:01 AM
I fly LW AND American

But only barely Russians

This isn´t a "anti american plane" post. I like the Mustang and especialy the Lightning.

I will try it later with the P47 vs He111

I have not try this yet because i thougt it was not often that a 44 plane challeging a Early/Mid War bomber

Only attack Ju88 in American / English planes.

Werg78
06-20-2004, 07:34 AM
imo it would be enough to tone down the sniper gunner AI. for this takes away a lot from the immersion and ultimately the fun in the game.

Magister__Ludi
06-20-2004, 09:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TooCool_12f:
about the 109: the engine is an "inverted V" engine, which means that the engine carter is on top of it (basically, where you have lots of oil) if the engine carter gets hit, it seems normal to me that oil splatters everywhere around<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


This is incorrect. The major ww2 V engines (V-1650, V-1710, DB-60x series) had dry sumps, meaning that oil stays outside of the engine in a tank. You won't find that place "where you have lots of oil" in those engines.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>besides, on any inline engine, you have:

- oil (as any engine) which, if the engine is hit, will spit all around tyhe plane

- glycol (cooling liquid for those that don't know), which is also flammable and will spread and leak everywhere if the engine gets hit[QUOTE]

these two will ignite quite easily, and that the main reason why liquid cooled engines are vulnerable

on air-cooled angines, there's oil in the carter (in the middle of the engine, but very little in the cylinders and no glycol at all.. they won't burn easily and can sustain much more damage...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


When the engine is hit there will be lots of fuel fumes which are more flammable than both oil and coolant and this happens on both radials and V engines. Another incendiary or HE round will turn the engine into a torch.

Bearcat99
06-20-2004, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carnage2681:
I fly LW AND American
But only barely Russians
This isn´t a "anti american plane" post. I like the Mustang and especialy the Lightning.
I will try it later with the P47 vs He111
I have not try this yet because i thougt it was not often that a 44 plane challeging a Early/Mid War bomber

Only attack Ju88 in American / English planes.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think this is an anti American plane post.... I just think the points you make apply across the board to all the planes..

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Magister__Ludi
06-20-2004, 10:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:

I dont think this is an anti American plane post.... I just think the points you make apply across the board to all the planes..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


DB-605 and DB-601 are the weakest engines in the game (for absolutely no reason). Are you denying this?

Luftcaca
06-20-2004, 11:04 AM
yes, compared to the M-105, the DB engines are weaker like I said earlier, but I think other V engines like the Merlin and the Allison are kinda weak too, so it makes me conclude that the DB is NOT too waek, but that the M-105 is WAYYYYYYY to tough to damage.

Cmon the way things are currently going, the M-105p on the Lagg3 s4 is tougher than the BMW801....thats a nonsense, and its been an issue for....forever now

pls Mr Maddox do something with the Klimov liquid cooled engines...

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Bearcat99
06-20-2004, 11:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Magister__Ludi:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:

I dont think this is an anti American plane post.... I just think the points you make apply across the board to all the planes..
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DB-605 and DB-601 are the weakest engines in the game (for absolutely no reason). Are you denying this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do I deny that this is some conspiratorial bias against German planes.. uhhh yeah I do. All the engines have issues..... personally I think the engines in the Laggs are more fragile..

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Blackjack174
06-20-2004, 11:26 AM
i surely can remember that engine hits in lagg3 etc made a nice oilscreen in original il2 , i think i had 1 or 2 oilscreens flying in FB in VVs planes , this CANT be correct.
all the laggs/yaks just loose power with no visible damage or leaking , the oilscreen was more
immersive to me at least http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

patch_adams
06-20-2004, 11:29 AM
Bearcat is flat out mistaken. While oil splat occour in mostly all planes, the frequency of occourance of oil splattering in the 109 is much more common than in any other plane in the game. You don't have to be an aero-engineer or have a phd in history to figure that out. Its called common sense and its a clear cut error in the programming. I hope it is improved or at least looked at.
~S

VW-IceFire
06-20-2004, 01:20 PM
I flew a 109, a LaGG, a Yak, a Mustang, and a Spitfire, all into a group of Average B-17's in a QMB. The idea was that I would fly past, and then start shooting without my usual diving slash attacks that I usually use to avoid defensive fire (so in other words, I approached from a near dead six on one or more of the bombers).

The qualitative results is that regardless of P-47, LaGG, 109, Mustang, or Spitfire...I ended up with oil on all but the LaGG (which engine died almost right away but with no visible damage in terms of leaks or fires). The 109 actually fared better (although further tests may show the opposite) than some of them...particularly the larger profile presented by the P-47 proved to be an easier target for the bombers gunners).

The fact is that on this test, not one single fighter did well in the pass and the one that I'd choose to fly if I were to approach a bomber formation would be the FW190 who's engine continued to spin despite damage and I managed to bail out. The Mustang actually exploded on me before bail out as did the Spitfire IX. The 109 was a similar story.

Overall the 109 and the Spitfire seem to be very similar. The 109 seems a little more vulnerable overall (not speaking of the engine) than the Spitfire and the Mustang does seem to take more non critical fire but when it comes to taking engine damage they all do about the same.

Once again, I feel completely statisfied and not worried at all when flying a 109. My preference is of course to the FW190 which was superior in this test to virtually all other types I tested against (and it displays this superiority in durability, pilot survivability, and firepower).

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Korolov
06-20-2004, 01:47 PM
Lets see, how many planes have I flown that have gotten oil splatters, consistently on the windshield...

IL-2 series - all of 'em
P-47s
P-51s
Spitfires
Bf-109s
La-7 (once)

How many axis planes do I see in there that has a oil splatter problem? One. Just one. And suddenly, it's wrong? Please. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The IL-2 is almost as bad as the 109 in oil splatter, then the Spitfire, then the pony and finally the Tbolt. The 109 had a oil problem - it's historical fact. Rather than asking for the effect to be toned down, you ought to ask for historical equipment that it had to clean the windshield!

I think this is just another combination of bad piloting and bad luck.

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p1ngu666
06-20-2004, 04:43 PM
109 had oillines and other stuff up on top, pilot accounts in book i got (yes, several) say they got oil leak and hadto abort mission
1-2 was ramjadger mission so they was lucky really.
the spitfires oil is worse, obscures site completely, u cant aim, in 109 u can aim at about 30%effeiceny id say. tbh im not sure if the spit should have this problem, oil tank was on lower nose front
the soviet inlines where tough aswell, but they do drop power easily

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Nub_322Sqn
06-21-2004, 01:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by patch_adams:
Bearcat is flat out mistaken. While oil splat occour in mostly all planes, the frequency of occourance of oil splattering in the 109 is much more common than in any other plane in the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Better do some more testing before making statements like the one above.
What a bunch of crybabies we have here.

I am a dedicated Spitfire player and there are several more around here yet I have not seen a single thread crying bias that the Spitfires always get a oil splat on the windscreen after one hit in the engine, or it's on fire right away as well.

Practice so you fly better so you don't get hit instead of whining about it here you babies.

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Tipo_Man
06-21-2004, 03:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:

Cmon the way things are currently going, the M-105p on the Lagg3 s4 is tougher than the BMW801....thats a nonsense, and its been an issue for....forever now

pls Mr Maddox do something with the Klimov liquid cooled engines...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well in order to avoid "country bias" you'd better compare M-105 to M-82... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Right now La-5 (LaGG-3 with M-82 engine ) is much more vulnerable to engine failure than LaGG-3 ... which is absurd...

Another question is why oil leaks of M-105 (if you have enough patience to endure the amount of hits needed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif ) do not damage the engine at all. You can get a smoking LaGG-3,Yak or Pe-2 and will never lose engine !

p1ngu666
06-21-2004, 10:59 AM
on the bus home, i realised the fw190 doesnt have a oil splatter does it?
and the oil cooler was a series of rings in the cowl...
presumably more likely to happen than p47 oil (cooler is in the bottom)

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NorrisMcWhirter
06-21-2004, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by plumps_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/457_1087700339_luftwhine.jpg

Try flying some other planes if you think it only happens to german ones .. jeez talk about a luftwhine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nice move in the propaganda war -- do you have an 'Ameriwhiner' version of that picture that we can post in one of Gibbage's threads, just for the sake of balance? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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I've had to have a bilge pump fitted to my PC what with all the .50 cal crying going on of late. Even being able to shift 3x10^5 gallons/sec wasn't enough though.

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Luftcaca
06-21-2004, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tipo_Man:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:

Cmon the way things are currently going, the M-105p on the Lagg3 s4 is tougher than the BMW801....thats a nonsense, and its been an issue for....forever now

pls Mr Maddox do something with the Klimov liquid cooled engines...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well in order to avoid "country bias" you'd better compare M-105 to M-82... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Right now La-5 (LaGG-3 with M-82 engine ) is much more vulnerable to engine failure than LaGG-3 ... which is absurd...

Another question is why oil leaks of M-105 (if you have enough patience to endure the amount of hits needed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif ) do not damage the engine at all. You can get a smoking LaGG-3,Yak or Pe-2 and will never lose engine !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

totally agree about that
talking about oil leaks and engine damage, I noticed that the IAR 80/81 can leak oil forever b4 suffering from an engine failure

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Menthol_moose
06-21-2004, 05:33 PM
And the .50 cal dispersion was changed after much in game and documentation was changed, and oleg thought it was wrong too.

So unless you do have evidence that your 109' engines are far more fragile than types like the merlin... then STFU.

Of course there is no evidence = luftwhine.

Hunde_3.JG51
06-21-2004, 06:52 PM
p1ngu666, yes the oil cooler was in the form of a ring around the front of the engine cowling and no the 190 has no oil splatter.

However, the oil itself was protected by an armored ring that went all the way around the front engine cowling, it was made specifically to protect the oil. On the FW-190A-9 and F-9 this ring was made even thicker.

Still, no oil splatter at all probably isn't right but there is at least some explanation of it. Then again, maybe there is an oil splatter on 190's, its just that the oil doesn't spread high enough and it is obstructed by the bar http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

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Magister__Ludi
06-21-2004, 09:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
on the bus home, i realised the fw190 doesnt have a oil splatter does it?
and the oil cooler was a series of rings in the cowl...
presumably more likely to happen than p47 oil (cooler is in the bottom)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fw-190 has armored rings that protect the oil tank and cooler. P-47 on the other hand has a huge unprotected oil tank right in front of the windshield. There is a big difference between the two.

Fehler
06-21-2004, 11:52 PM
It's OK, really. The 190 doesnt get oil splashes. Instead, we get fuel leaks. Hit in rudder, fuel leak. Hit in wing tip, fuel leak. Hit in elevator, fuel leak. I am amazed at how much fuel the 190 must have secretly carried in all these hidden fuel bladders.

So, although you cant see very well out of your Spit or 109, you wont have to worry. The 190 you hit in the navigation light wont make it home after it dumps all it's fuel in a few minutes through that 30 caliber hole you made.

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WTE_Galway
06-22-2004, 01:17 AM
spits and 109's are both nightmares against heavy bombers .. i have been taken out at distances of up to 800 metres flying high 9 ocklock just having a look see http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

the fw190 still remains the only plane i can reliably take out a flight of four heavies like pe8's or B17's in QMB and get away with it - a fw190 a8 with mk108 wing cannon can do that every time and have ammo left and usually still be in combat condition

as for the DB engines versus merlins the DB was inverted but had mg's on top of the engine wheeas the spitfire had anormal botton sump arrangement

dadada1
06-22-2004, 04:37 AM
I feel that if anyone has a real point in this post it's Luftcaca. It is true that you can have an engine failure in either Lagg or Yak nobodies denying that, but it is usually outright engine failure without preliminary oil leakage and accompanying loss of power as in other AC. The M -105 on the Lagg 3 doesn't generally smoke lightly as in the 109, Spit of P40. If it takes a decent engine hit, the smoke is thick and an engine fire imminent. I think what should be addressed and what people are discussing here are these inconsistancies rather than bias of one side or other. Also the way the Yak M-105 can taken out easier than the Laggs seems odd. This is not imagination I'm sure but the observation of many players over the years. Also as mentioned the fact that Lagg 5 engine is more damage prone than Lagg 3 somehow seems inconsistant with what we collectively know of In-line and Radial engines. I'm sure that all that most people want to see is these incosistancies removed in order to make the game believable and credible.

Luftcaca
06-22-2004, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dadada1:
I feel that if anyone has a real point in this post it's Luftcaca. It is true that you can have an engine failure in either Lagg or Yak nobodies denying that, but it is usually outright engine failure without preliminary oil leakage and accompanying loss of power as in other AC. The M -105 on the Lagg 3 doesn't generally smoke lightly as in the 109, Spit of P40. If it takes a decent engine hit, the smoke is thick and an engine fire imminent. I think what should be addressed and what people are discussing here are these inconsistancies rather than bias of one side or other. Also the way the Yak M-105 can taken out easier than the Laggs seems odd. This is not imagination I'm sure but the observation of many players over the years. Also as mentioned the fact that Lagg 5 engine is more damage prone than Lagg 3 somehow seems inconsistant with what we collectively know of In-line and Radial engines. I'm sure that all that most people want to see is these incosistancies removed in order to make the game believable and credible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, pretty true, and I'd also like to mention something about the P-40 Field Mod mounted with the M-105p (same engine as the Yak1/7 and Lagg3s4)

I dunno with 2.1 or 2.2 but I remember that the M-105p mounted on the P-40 was as easy to damage than the Allison engine, it had "normal" oil leaks and all, so why not on the Russian birds too???
I flew the Yak many times, and I had some engine failures, one hit from an Heinkels turret and the engine looses 80% of its power, without any visual significance (oil leaks....blahblahl) Somtimes the Yak will leak oil yes but the leak will come from one of the wing...I think its accurate I heard something about the radiator of the Klimov V engines being separated in 5 diff spots on the plane, but I thought it was only on the lagg3...whatever

I also flew the Lagg3 much (currently flying it in Leningrad 1941)
Cant remember ONE time when I had some engine problem with it even if I always target bombers. I took many hits from turrets and believe me, the DB would have gone COOCOO.

SO finally, the real issue I think is not Merlin vs DB, but really M-105 vs DB.

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