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View Full Version : Oleg: Ju87 Bomb-release alternative



XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 02:55 PM
^S^ All,

As we all know or at least...realized by now, the stuka, releases all of its bomb on one hit of the Button4(bomb) button.

This is a step backward in my opinion. Why bother flying with bombs on the wing anymore? It's just a waste, who would load out with 1000kg of bombs, only to destroy 1 flak gun?

Maybe it could be possible to wire the stuka's wing bombs to the Button3(rocket) button, while leaving the center-line bomb to the regular Button4(bomb) button.

Oleg is this possible??

EDIT: Fritz posted these images concerning stuka's and Fw190's ability to choose what ordinance to drop etc. Please not items #37 and #16 for the stuka cockpit.

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/ju87cockpitlayout.jpg

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/bombselectorju87.JPG

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/emergencydrop.JPG

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/fw190fbombselector.JPG


Message Edited on 08/17/03‚ 05:14PM by StG77_Kondor

Message Edited on 08/17/0305:16PM by StG77_Kondor

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 02:55 PM
^S^ All,

As we all know or at least...realized by now, the stuka, releases all of its bomb on one hit of the Button4(bomb) button.

This is a step backward in my opinion. Why bother flying with bombs on the wing anymore? It's just a waste, who would load out with 1000kg of bombs, only to destroy 1 flak gun?

Maybe it could be possible to wire the stuka's wing bombs to the Button3(rocket) button, while leaving the center-line bomb to the regular Button4(bomb) button.

Oleg is this possible??

EDIT: Fritz posted these images concerning stuka's and Fw190's ability to choose what ordinance to drop etc. Please not items #37 and #16 for the stuka cockpit.

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/ju87cockpitlayout.jpg

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/bombselectorju87.JPG

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/emergencydrop.JPG

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/fw190fbombselector.JPG


Message Edited on 08/17/03‚ 05:14PM by StG77_Kondor

Message Edited on 08/17/0305:16PM by StG77_Kondor

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 03:00 PM
I've seen the opposite with unlimited ammo on. Only the bombs under the wings got released, but incessantly, after I'd dropped the bombs for the first time. And subsequent depressing of the bomb release button would simply remain ineffective. The under-wing bombs kept being dropped at a fixed interval.

While the centerline bomb never got dropped at all, it remained glue to the fuselage.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 03:37 PM
Ok but unlimeted boms is hardly realistic don't you agree?

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:36 PM
It doesn't matter whether it's realistic or not - or do you think only absolutely realistic features should work correctly? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 04:44 PM
i think it's more realistic as is. RL pilots valued their lives over getting one more target, so it makes more sense to drop all bombs and get the hell outta dodge

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 05:50 PM
Forget the unlimited ammo thing, who flies a stuka with unlimited ammo on?

The fact of the matter is, why would you waste 1000kg of bombs on just 1 target, instead of making several attacks on a target with multiple planes.

Two planes can take care of the AAA while the rest take care of specified objectives, this is what my squad does all the time in planned attacks. The fact that we release all our munitions in ONE dive makes flying the stuka with wing bombs a waste.

-----------------------------------------------------
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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:27 PM
In RL with one SC 500 and 4 SC 50 you can make a bigger whole and your chance to destroy a tank is better, but in FB the damage area of the SC 500 covers the damage area of the 4 SC 50. That means the 4 SC 50 don't have much effect.

But releasing all bombs in one dive is more realistic. It's simply too dangerous to make 2 oder even 3 dives over a target covered with AA-guns and don't forget: You dive from 2000-3000m, but after the dive you are down at 500-1000m.

But i have to agree, the 4 SC 50 dont have much effect, but it's more realistic to have them under the wings and release them over the target.
I like it how it is now.
Maybe we get the SC 1000 with the next update /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



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"HyperLobby 4 Ever"

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 06:45 PM
Get off the soap box and let me an my pals fly the way we want to /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Thanks for the advice as to how to plan such attacks. But the fact that we're using unlimited ammo has nothing to do with us not understanding these issues. We just use it for some easy fun flights from time to time, and we enjoy this a lot.

There's a time for simming, and there's a time for just some fun, depending on which of our friends are flying.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 08:11 PM
Stefan-R wrote:
- You dive from 2000-3000m, but after
- the dive you are down at 500-1000m.

So what? Ever heard of level bombing?

Usually in our attacks we don't last more than 45 seconds over target area.

Dive attack from 4000m, release first bombs at 800-1000m. Use your speed you get to quickly maneuver around to the next target, then release what you have left on the next objective. After that, immediately egress from target area and head towards home at low altitude to avoid flak.

Apparently...some people don't know how to fly the stuka.

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:07 AM
bump

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:17 AM
Let me add a few things:
I could live with the crappy Ju-87B which couldnt climb faster than 2.5 m/s and also with the landing gear breaking off during dives, even the underpowered Ju-87G cannon isnt something that worried me, but the single release of all the bombs is IMO something that needs to be "UNpatched".

I have to point out that within Stukageschwader 77 we never do multiple bombingruns but always during an attack drop our loads on different targets in a single dive.
As it was, it was important to have a good approach, target line-up etc., in other words extensive mission planning to destroy well defended and multiple targets.

It doesnt realy make sense for us anymore to take more than a single 500KG bomb now, because first off the plane is much lighter, agile etc. without the extra load and second the destruction area of the wing loadout (even the 2 x 250KG!) isnt that much bigger than the destruction area of a single 500KG bomb.
As of now I can only say that StG77 lost a lot of its "firepower" as well as a big part of mission planning etc. when flying online. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
People who know us and fly with us online know exactly what I am talking about now...

As far as I know there was an either/or decision of:
> either have the auto pullout but only one release
> or multirelease but no autopullout

Needless to say I hope that this one-drop-bug will be solved, even if it means no auto-pullout feature.
Heck: Even give me back falling off landing gear and a Stuka that cant climb over 2.5 m/s and flys as fast as a Zeppelin, but PLEASE "UNpatch" the Stuka!



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Message Edited on 08/13/0307:24PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 02:15 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:

- Maybe it could be possible to wire the stuka's wing
- bombs to the Button3(rocket) button, while leaving
- the center-line bomb to the regular Button4(bomb)
- button.

Very good idea! If this could also be added to planes such as the Fw 190 F-8, it would add a whole new dimension to ground attack missions.

I/JG54^Lukas
He 162A-2 Cockpit Modeler

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 04:06 PM
Bump

Oleg, PLEASE throw us stuka pilots a bone here...would it be possible to get a multi-release mechanism like I stated in my first post.

If not, could we PLEASE get the old stuka back...back to dropping wing bombs first, THEN centerline bombs.

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 04:28 PM
JG54_Lukas wrote:
-
- StG77_Kondor wrote:
-
-- Maybe it could be possible to wire the stuka's wing
-- bombs to the Button3(rocket) button, while leaving
-- the center-line bomb to the regular Button4(bomb)
-- button.
-
- Very good idea! If this could also be added to
- planes such as the Fw 190 F-8, it would add a whole
- new dimension to ground attack missions.
-
- I/JG54^Lukas
- He 162A-2 Cockpit Modeler
-


BUMP for a plea for multiple release buttons on aircraft that dont have this feature.


It might sound funny, but on behalf of all Stukageschwader 77 members I can say that we rather have no auto pullout feature, the falling off gear, undermodelled FM and underpowered Ju-87G cannons back.
Even remove the tailgunners, strip all armor so we go down after 10 rifle caliber hits, just do whatever, we trade everything for it, but please, please please please please enable the multi release!

...... I try to be funny..but realy...it isnt... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I cant even think of the full impact the current Stuka has on StG77, but I sure do hope the development team realizes that we are extremely disappointed and now, for the first time, as a squadron have to step forward and speak out.

I hope the development team will take notion.

<marquee>
* * * * * * * * Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. * * * * * * * * </marquee>


Message Edited on 08/14/0310:36AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 04:46 PM
Wait till one off the figters fire all there ammo on one hit on the buttem , than the hole community is waking up and screeming for to Oleg to repair it.

those fighter pilots dont think of anyting than there figters , buht wehn a bomber or a dive bomer have a bug than its ok.

The level of the beta testers is low to if the dont have cheak it on the stuka.
Dont get me rong , u beta testers have done a great job for the fighters buht u have forgot us bomberpilots.
For online wars its a great chance if u are able to relise bombs seperate or not , like nite and day.

We bomber pilots are on the 2e place in this game and that most be stop now.

Please oleg repair the stuka and give us bomber lovers more flyable bombers in this great game.

I/KG26_Oranje



Message Edited on 08/14/0303:52PM by KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 05:39 PM
StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
-
-
- It doesnt realy make sense for us anymore to take
- more than a single 500KG bomb now, because first off
- the plane is much lighter, agile etc. without the
- extra load and second the destruction area of the
- wing loadout (even the 2 x 250KG!) isnt that much
- bigger than the destruction area of a single 500KG
- bomb.
- As of now I can only say that StG77 lost a lot of
- its "firepower" as well as a big part of mission
- planning

This is my feelings also i will gladly trade the auto pull out for multi drop feature



<marquee>
‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§ ‚¬§
</marquee>


http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 06:01 PM
Couldnt agree with you guys any more.Oleg pls give us an option to select which bombs are to be dropped.Also another bug is that the autopullout automatically pulls out the plane at around 800 mtrs approx.Please make it pullout like how it was in IL2 original.
Right now the following HAS to fixed.
1)Please Please give us an option for selecting bombs.
2)The autopullout should pullout the plane at lower alts.Right now it pulls out way too high and as a result completely spoils your aim ( due to this my accuracy which was 99% in a stuka has fallen to 60%)
3)The JU87's 7.92's are completely ineffective against even fragile planes like the U2VS even at point blank range.I empytied an entire load from a JU87B2 into a U2 getting several chunks from the plane and when i switched to xternal view there was no visible damage?????
4)As a tradeoff consider giving us stuka jocks the JU87D5 (with the twin MG151/20 and with longer wingspan) like how you gave the fighter jocks the 109F4 in IL2 V1.04 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
Due to the current state of the stuka im now more actively flying the FW190 which is a shame cos I used to fly stukas 85% the time it was flyable in V1.2.
BTW lets all bump this thread till Oleg posts his opinion regarding this matter as i feel this is one of the more important things to be patched.Other than the probs with the Stuka I give V1.1B a big thumbs up.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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JU87B2 of 8/St.G77 , Smolensk Sept 1941

Stukageschwader77 soon divebombing an airbase near you.---- Visit www.stg-77.net (http://www.stg-77.net) to join StG77 ----


Message Edited on 08/14/0310:05PM by StG77_Sturm

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 06:06 PM
Oranje: You're right; Bomber Squadrons are the ugly ducklings of the IL2/FB community. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.organisart.co.uk/assets/duplicate1/Ugly-Duckling-5-copy-2.jpg


<marquee>
* * * * * * * * Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon coming to an airbase near you. * * * * * * * * </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 06:35 PM
StG77_Sturm wrote:
- Due to the current state of the stuka im now more
- actively flying the FW190 which is a shame cos I
- used to fly stukas 85% the time it was flyable in
- V1.2.

Same here: The whole aspect of what makes flying the Stuka exciting: mission planning, tactical use etc like I mentioned previously has severly diminished or is extremely simplified.

Also I wonder what the effects will be on the Online Wars.

<marquee>
* * * * * * * * Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Stripped of its firepower since V1.1b * * * * * * * * </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/14/0312:40PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 07:43 PM
Bump

What else are the fighter jocks gonna ruin for us bomber pilots?

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 08:51 PM
Bumb.

Bombersqd`s united and send a protest to Oleg/3c

I/KG26_Oranje

Ugly ducks win the war hehehehe



Message Edited on 08/14/0308:16PM by KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:07 PM
The decision to go for the auto pullout feature over multiple bomb release is most likely made by a fighter pilot, and has far reaching consequences for all bomber pilots.
At the least it must have been limited knowledge or interest in bombing and being fascinated by the auto pullout feature.

If only some hard core bomber enthusiasts were involved in the beta testing things would have been way different and this would have never happened.

For now during the V1.1B patch the Axis side has lost most of its bombing capabilities and effectiveness.

Whats going to be left in the long run if we dont stand up and have our voice heard?
Tee and Bee'ing? Bee and Zee'ing?
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

As bombers we might be a minority, but we ARE HERE, and fly IL2/FB > AS IT WAS MENT TO BE <.

I dont know to what extent the members of the development team visit this forum but I hope our concerns to as the Ju-87 in V1.1B gets thru to the right persons and something is done about it.

I also hope that it will shine a new light on implementation of bombers in general in FB.



<marquee>
* * * * * * * * Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Stripped of its Fire Power since V1.1B * * * * * * * * </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/14/0303:09PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:13 PM
Spot on Fritz.

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-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:06 AM
BuMp

http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 02:02 AM
BOMB

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<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Stripped of its Fire Power and Combat Effectiveness since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 02:15 AM
using the button 3 for the wingload and button 4 for the fuselage load is a VERY good sugggestion.

pls make it possible for the Ju87

and i realy second the desire about the D-5 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

i would also "accept" a fieldmod" D-3 , with MG151/20 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.jagdgeschwader53.flugzeugwerk.net/diverses/franky.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 03:33 AM
StG77_Sturm Wrote

- BTW lets all bump this thread till Oleg posts
- his opinion regarding this matter as i feel this is
- one of the more important things to be patched.Other
- than the probs with the Stuka I give V1.1B a big
- thumbs up.


I agree Sturm and when there is a official 1.1 bug thread we should post there also


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Message Edited on 08/15/0302:34AM by StG77_Jager

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:19 AM
The button 3 (wing ordnance), button 4 (fuselage ordnance) suggestion is an excellent idea for all aircraft that don't carry rockets. Hopefully it can be implemented.

Cheers.

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:45 AM
How about button 3 for the wing bombs and button 4 for ALL of them.

That gives you 2 options. Drop the wing bombs with button 3 then the fuselage bomb with button 4 -OR- When the situation calls for it (ie shipping attacks) just press button 4 only and they all go at once.

Best of both worlds.

-LO!

http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/o/lordoliver/forum_misc/LOsunset.jpg </img>

LordOliver -> StG77_Ollie
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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:50 AM
Ollie...Ollie...Ollie....

Is there anything else you want to top that I have suggested/done/or thought of?

Then again, your suggestion is a good one. Very interesting too.

I could live with both suggestions /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 06:37 AM
Nice idea Ollie.Meanwhile lets bump this thread till it becomes famous /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.warbirdpictures.com/LCBW/Ju87-B2-45.jpg


JU87B2 of 8/St.G77 , Smolensk Sept 1941

Stukageschwader77 soon divebombing an airbase near you.---- Visit www.stg-77.net (http://www.stg-77.net) to join StG77 ----

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 02:30 PM
BUMB!!

Lets send the patch back lol.

Message Edited on 08/15/0302:05PM by KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:46 PM
^^^

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 08:24 PM
up to the top you go

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:44 PM
BuMp

http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 09:59 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
- Apparently...some people don't know how to fly the
- stuka.

Wow, talk about a penchant for understatement!

I believe we'll be able to talk Oleg into putting in something allowing this to happen. I really like the idea of being able to map trigger 3 for the wing bombs.

I haven't checked since the patch but the Bf-109E-7 dropped 2 of its 4 fuselage bombs for each press of trigger 4, hopefully we could get the same triggering for the wing bombs?

Are there any other flyable planes that carry bombs on both the wings and the fuselage?

I do hope that Oleg takes some time to consider this after he gets well again (and don't rush that Oleg!).

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:02 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
- What else are the fighter jocks gonna ruin for us
- bomber pilots?

Yeah, next thing you know, they'll be leaving the Stukas unescorted so they can't rack up ground target points in VEF!

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XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 10:40 PM
Bump

Oh, can we have a patch for everyone individually please, so that we all get exactly what we want and don't have to think about other people or gameplay or balance or realism or anything else.

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:41 PM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
- Bump
-
- Oh, can we have a patch for everyone individually
- please, so that we all get exactly what we want and
- don't have to think about other people or gameplay
- or balance or realism or anything else.
-
- 112th Scavenger Squadron

Well tex i dont think we are asking anything unreasonable here and i dont see how multi bomb release will affect other people gameplay or balance in in anything but a positive manner and realism will be more realistic so all should benefit from a multipul bomb release


http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 11:43 PM
How about a switch to let the pilots select sets of bombs.

rig them in sets like: Outer wing, Inner wing, all wing, and center. And add one labeled "Salvo" for the bomb-whiners


A safety switch would be nice too!

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:13 AM
Cossack13 wrote:
- Are there any other flyable planes that carry bombs
- on both the wings and the fuselage?

The P-47 can do that as well, only other plane that can do that in the game thats player flyable.

I remember Oleg saying once that because of the game code, we can't have it like selecting a specific weapon to "fire"...like Rockets-Bombs-Wing bombs, etc.

Our best option is either Ollie's idea of Button3 firing wing bombs, THEN fuselage bomb, and Button4 dropping ALL of them at the same time. As he said, best of both worlds.

Or my idea of Button3 wing bombs, Button4 fuselage bomb /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
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When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:14 AM
BuMb

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 02:27 AM
- Well tex i dont think we are asking anything
- unreasonable here and i dont see how multi bomb
- release will affect other people gameplay or balance
- in in anything but a positive manner and realism
- will be more realistic so all should benefit from a
- multipul bomb release


Its the way you dont politely ask for a change, or make a suggestion, you all (aimed at everyone who whines in here) first say how shocked and upset you are, how something has ruined your life, then INSIST on a change.

Maybe if you were all a bit more polite and showed some maturity with manners you might get an answer, even a discussion that may end in change. Bumping something because you think that what YOU want has priority is just plain rude.

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 03:48 AM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
-- Well tex i dont think we are asking anything
-- unreasonable here and i dont see how multi bomb
-- release will affect other people gameplay or balance
-- in in anything but a positive manner and realism
-- will be more realistic so all should benefit from a
-- multipul bomb release
-
-
- Its the way you dont politely ask for a change, or
- make a suggestion, you all (aimed at everyone who
- whines in here) first say how shocked and upset you
- are, how something has ruined your life, then INSIST
- on a change.
-
- Maybe if you were all a bit more polite and showed
- some maturity with manners you might get an answer,
- even a discussion that may end in change. Bumping
- something because you think that what YOU want has
- priority is just plain rude.
-
- 112th Scavenger Squadron

Ahem.... since WHEN was bumping for a legitmate request "rude"?We are bumping this thread so it wont get lost as we all feel this is a very important issue.Give me one instance where we have not been politely asking???



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.warbirdpictures.com/LCBW/Ju87-B2-45.jpg


JU87B2 of 8/St.G77 , Smolensk Sept 1941

Stukageschwader77 soon divebombing an airbase near you.---- Visit www.stg-77.net (http://www.stg-77.net) to join StG77 ----

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 04:27 AM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
-- Bumping
- something because you think that what YOU want has
- priority is just plain rude.
-
- 112th Scavenger Squadron

I really dont feel that i have been rude to anyone if so it was totaly unintentional



http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:55 AM
Another thought for the excellent button 3 (wing), button 4 (fuselage) suggestion. In the case of the Stuka, button 4 also activates the auto pull-out, button 3 does not? Enables one to pickle the smaller wing bombs (in pairs) in the dive without activating the auto pull-out and spoiling ones aim with the main bomb.
Only problem with the P-47 as far as wing bombs goesis that it can also carry rockets in addition to the wing bombs. In this case the 3/4 mapping wouldn't work for the various bombs.
Cheers & Bump!



<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/ForgottenFighter/crikey!.jpg?0.9947684259733767

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 12:49 PM
I Agree with kondor

Other solution:

another key for switching between:

- wing bombs
- ventral bomb
- All bombs

Release with botton 4

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 05:32 PM
^^^^

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 06:59 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
- Our best option is either Ollie's idea of Button3
- firing wing bombs, THEN fuselage bomb, and Button4
- dropping ALL of them at the same time. As he said,
- best of both worlds.

Sounds good to me!

<center>
http://members.verizon.net/~vze2cb22/KosSig.gif

America: #1 military...#15 in literacy...
Because right wingers run our military
and leftists run our schools!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 08:48 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:02 PM
The stuka is a dive bomber, u need to drop all bombs on a single dive, i used to get pretty mad when i was in a perfect dive bombing misiion and when i click one time and drop one bomb, my plane would pull up and when i clicked the second time to drop the rest of the bombs, they always hited to far from target, so i belive the one hit drop all bombs is a good thing

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:46 PM
If you would read our posts with patience maybe you would understand us...

The problem is that they made a decision. If you remember in FB 1.0, you would drop your bombs one by one, and the auto-pullout wouldn't activate. Now in 1.1b, they decided to pu tthe auto-pullout in, and to make it work right, they decided that all bombs should drop with one hit of the button.

It would be better if it would change back to the way it was in 1.0, or use my idea or Ollie's idea.

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 09:58 PM
Sounds like you guys on the right track. Two small things, is there some definitive 'proof' as to how the historic Stuka dropped its bombs? Maybe it was necessary to drop all at once, as the pull-out is quite high G, and the stress of additional bombloads still hanging (especially on the wings) might be catastrophic. I don't know about that, just curious.

The other thing: Maybe if it is too dificult for Oleg to pry in another keystroke, an arrangement could be made with the current Fire Rocket button. Are there (or could there be) any aircraft that carry both outter wing bombs AND rockets? Maybe the 'Fire Rocket' key should 'fire' whatever is hanging out on the wings (whether rockets or bombs) while the current 'Drop Bombs' releases centerline munitions.

XyZspineZyX
08-16-2003, 11:14 PM
Basicaly the problem comes down to the inability to select which bombs to release, for the Stuka, the FW-190 as well as some other aircraft that have wing and centerline loadouts. (TB f.e.)


EDIT: Keymapping as mentioned above would be awesome but I think there is a lot of work involved to get this done.
It would be great to have a two buttons to release ordnance as in the P-47 and the IL-2.




<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Stripped of its Fire Power and Combat Effectiveness since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/16/0305:49PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 01:29 AM
^^^^^

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 02:07 AM
Oh make it count for the FW190 jabo to.
It dont relise bombs sepertly anymore.
And smoke trails after the bombers on 4750 alt?
man oh man The most be scared for some german bombers.

S! Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 03:37 AM
ßuMp

http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 04:50 AM
Up she goes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.warbirdpictures.com/LCBW/Ju87-B2-45.jpg


JU87B2 of 8/St.G77 , Smolensk Sept 1941

Stukageschwader77 soon divebombing an airbase near you.---- Visit www.stg-77.net (http://www.stg-77.net) to join StG77 ----

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 05:03 PM
Oops, bumped it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 07:03 PM
B U M P

sorry hehehehe

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 08:38 PM
StG77_Kondor wrote:

- The problem is that they made a decision. If you
- remember in FB 1.0, you would drop your bombs one by
- one, and the auto-pullout wouldn't activate. Now in
- 1.1b, they decided to pu tthe auto-pullout in, and
- to make it work right, they decided that all bombs
- should drop with one hit of the button.
-

Just like in a real Stuka then.

I've got utmost respect for anyone who dedicates themsleves to flying the Stuka. And yes, bomber pilots always have their concerns ignored in any game. It was the same in Warbirds and it's the same here; I'll bet AH and CFS are the same too. However, the Stuka is now modelled correctly, so, with all due respect, I can't see your point, although I can understand why you might chose to complain.

I've seen many pics of Stukas with the 250/50 bomb mix at the point of bomb release. They always show all bombs being dropped; never do you see any bombs being retained for a subsequent pass. Please post any pics that contradict this.

For a detailed description of the Stuka read Dr Alfred Price's article in the Winter 2000 volume from the following link:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/downloads/documents.html

The current FB Stuka dive-attack is perfectly modelled, as per the description in the article. This is the only game where the Stuka is properly modelled; in other games it's just another dive-bomber - like pre-patch FB - with none of the special features modelled.

It would be nice to be able to select which bombs were to be dropped - if this option was avaiable to real Stuka pilots. Button 3/4 was a good suggestion. It would also be good if dropping the 4 x 50s actually did add to the destruction wrought by the 250 kg bomb - I'm sure in RL there was a good reason to salvo the lot. Otherwise, what you're asking for is a dive-bomber that's not quite so Stuka-like. And that hardly seems realistic now that it is just right /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:23 PM
- StG77_Kondor wrote:
- I've seen many pics of Stukas with the 250/50 bomb
- mix at the point of bomb release. They always show
- all bombs being dropped; never do you see any bombs
- being retained for a subsequent pass. Please post
- any pics that contradict this.

Sorry bro i dont know were u get that sorry from.
Buht as i canot bring a picture from museum WW2 propaganda movie`s and many books on the stuka and doco `s from discovery channel.
u most belive me and do some hisortical background to it.
The stuka was able to relise bombs like the pilot wise for.
And for CFS part , in CFS there was no stuka or any bomber out of the box , counts for CFS2 , in CFS 3 u have flyable bombers buht that game is dead and not close to real or playable.

We dont bring it to discusion if we gamers dont know were the hel.... we are talking about.
In ahter wordts we do some back ground on it bro before we point it out to Oleg.

P.S. we dont have to prove it to u , the prove is in the game olready , look on the updatet old IL2 and fly the Stuka ju87-B2 and than in il2fb out of the box and u see than that the stuka in those game do waht is stolen from is in this patch.

Greatings I/KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 09:51 PM
For people who question bomb selectors:
Below a cockpit layout as well as screenshots of the Junkers 87 and the FW-190F bomb selectors/emergency release.

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/ju87cockpitlayout.jpg



http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/bombselectorju87.JPG


http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/emergencydrop.JPG


http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/fw190fbombselector.JPG


<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Stripped of its Fire Power and Combat Effectiveness since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:02 PM
Any questions? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<marquee>
= = = = = StG 77 : Up to 66% Less Fire Power since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>


Message Edited on 08/17/0304:15PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-17-2003, 10:06 PM
Bah...infidels /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

EDIT:Note items 16 and 37...thangyoovetymoch

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</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.stg-77.net

Message Edited on 08/17/0305:08PM by StG77_Kondor

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 12:11 AM
^^^^

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 03:26 AM
It seems that Bombers are secondary to Fighters in this game, The developers seem to listen to the Fighter clique than the Bomber Boys, This game needs more Bombers (JU-88, PE-8, PE-2) but the Fighter jocks keep whining about their precious P-51 & Spitfires, So they usually get what they want, We're the forgotten children of Forgotten Battles./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

"An attack against a unit of Flying Fortresses was something like controlled suicide...Sometimes 50, Sometimes 80 machine guns were firing at you... You attempted to close your eyes & continue to fire, Frightened to death, Frightened to death."

Oberst Johannes Steinhoff (176 kills)

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:06 AM
Wow, I go to Miami for a couple days (oh the things I saw /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) and look at this thread!! sheesh

No trying to one-up you there brother Kondor, Just offering alternative thoughts /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

In the meantime... that new Tungsten AP in the G is sweeeeeet!!!!


Acme70 wrote:
- It seems that Bombers are secondary to Fighters in
- this game, The developers seem to listen to the
- Fighter clique than the Bomber Boys, This game needs
- more Bombers (JU-88, PE-8, PE-2) but the Fighter
- jocks keep whining about their precious P-51 &
- Spitfires,

Funny thing that... Anyone remember Oleg's original intentions for this sim when it was only a concept? IIRC It was to have flyable IL-2's...

...only!

Originally it was ALL about the ground attack.



-LO!

http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/o/lordoliver/forum_misc/LOsunset.jpg </img>

LordOliver -> StG77_Ollie
www.stg-77.net (http://www.stg-77.net)
My personal page (http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/o/lordoliver/)

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 07:07 AM
BUMP!

Great idea(s) Kondor/Ollie and glad you brought up problem with with autopullup Sturm. Please respond Oleg, these are legitimate requests and concerns.

http://www.dive-bombers.co.uk/At%20War%20German.jpg

StG77_Stuka

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:53 AM
Just want to know if anyone has any verifiable accounts from Stuka pilot's memoirs of them actually doing a multiple target bomb drop.

I can see how having the ability to drop some of the bombs on one target then swing around in a diferent direction and chose a different target for the rest would be useful in the game, but does it actually reflect real life? Any links to suitable proof of pilots actually:
a: Being able to do this
b: Actually doing it
would be gratefully recieved.

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 11:17 AM
I realy feel sorry for you Stuka bastards... here's a friendly bump /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Shouldn't be much of a discussion though. If the Stuka could release the bombs separately then it should in the game, if not it shouldn't.

S!

<center>

http://www.webforum.nu/member/Fornixx/190.JPG</p>
<center>

Proud member of Vattholma hell moppers</p>


Message Edited on 08/18/0312:18PM by Fornixx

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 01:28 PM
Fornixx wrote:
- I realy feel sorry for you Stuka bastards... here's
- a friendly bump
-
- Shouldn't be much of a discussion though. If the
- Stuka could release the bombs separately then it
- should in the game, if not it shouldn't.
-
- S!
-

Precisely, I wasn't questioning the ability to select bombs, I was just asking if it was possible. If it was I said it should be included.

It would be nice to be able to select which bombs were to be dropped - if this option was avaiable to real Stuka pilots. Button 3/4 was a good suggestion.

OK Kondor, if you've seen many pictures of Stukas dropping a partial load, that's good enough for me. Besides, the above layout confirms that the load was selectable.

However, whatever the bomb selection, the auto-pilot will still initiate dive recovery when those bombs are released. Some of you at least are asking for the auto-pilot to be disabled, which I can't find any historical justification for. For me putting the auto-pilot back in, (like it was when the Stuka was first flyable) greatly adds to the immersion when flying the Stuka post-patch.



Message Edited on 08/18/0312:32PM by Kernow

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:26 PM
StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
- For people who question bomb selectors:
- Below a cockpit layout as well as screenshots of the
- Junkers 87 and the FW-190F bomb selectors/emergency
- release.



Very nice Fritz /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:51 PM
It took me about a minute to locate an article describing excactly the point bomber pilots are trying to make here.Jump to the last paragraph,last sentence,to get right to the point.

http://www.bellum.nu/bow/blitzkrieg/ju87tactics.html


http://www.dive-bombers.co.uk/At%20War%201st%20UK%20&%20USA.jpg

StG77_Stuka

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 05:56 PM
I emailed Oleg about this when we got the Add-On of the Stuka in IL-2. He responded and COMPLETELY AGREED! He said he would try to implement it in FB, but I think it slid off the table.

Now the way it would be best Implemented "in my opinion" is the following.

Button Function
1-Guns 7.92's as is
2-Cannon Full release all stores
3-Rocket Wing Stores, in ripple if held
4-Bomb Belly Store

It should be really simple to code that and would make everyone happy.

Gunner Out

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/GunnerSig2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:16 PM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
- Just want to know if anyone has any verifiable
- accounts from Stuka pilot's memoirs of them actually
- doing a multiple target bomb drop.

LOL, what else do you need m8? You have the proof right infront of you that they had the ABILITY to do it. What does it matter that they decided not to use it ALL the time?? IF they never used it then why have it on the stuka? From the earliest B model to the later D models?

They had the ability to do it in real life, and I see no reason for us not to be able to do the same thing...why do you feel it so necesary for us to come up with more and more proof...when its right infront of you??

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:18 PM
For those who need proof stuka could retain wing bombs for further targeting, I have taken article from www.Bellum.nu (http://www.Bellum.nu) "BLITZKRIEG-JU87 Divebombing tactics", read the last paragraph, last sentence. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pre-dive checklist:
1. Landing flaps at cruise position.
2. Elevator trim at cruise position.
3. Rudder trim at cruise position.
4. Aircrew pitch set at cruise.
5. Contact altimeter on.
6. Contact altimeter set to release height.
7. Supercharger set to automatic.
8. Throttle pulled right back.
9. Cooler flaps closed.
10. Dive brakes opened.
The dive sequence:
1. The pilot finds his target and begins diving. Dive brakes open, this automatically noses the aircraft over into a dive. Red tabs protrude from the upper surfaces of the wing as a visual indicator to the pilot : at the same time the automatic dive recovery system is actuated. The pilot aims the entire aircraft at his target using a simple gun-type sight.

2. The Stuka dives at an angle between 60-90 degrees and accelerates to 600km/h (350mph). It would hold this speed with the help of the dive-brakes located on the wing, but this inevitably puts a lot of stress on the structure.

3. When the aircraft is reasonably close to the target, a light on the contact altimeter comes on to indicate the bomb-release point-usually at a minimum hight of 450m. The pilot releases the bomb by depressing a knob on the control column to release weapons and to initiate the automatic pull-out mechanism. A clutch located under the fuselage would swing the bomb out of the way of the propellor, and it also starts pulling the plane up automatically.

4. Pullout mechanism is activated and the airplane automatically initiates a 6g pullout, returning elevator trim tabs to normal position. Can be overridden by the pilot in emergency. Once nose is above horizon, dive brakes retract, throttle opens and air screw is set to climb. The pilot regains consciousness and control, and resumes normal flight. He use his remaining bombs under the wings for other targets. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.dive-bombers.co.uk/At%20War%201st%20UK%20&%20USA.jpg

StG77_Stuka

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 06:23 PM
Thanks USMC, its nice to see other people agree with us every now and then.

We've also lobbied Oleg for something similar since the stuka was made flyable for IL-2.

All of us from StG77 appreciate your support /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

oh BTW, I do agree with you also on the .50 cal sound in FB...sounds awful. The best .50 cal sounds I've heard in a game were CFS2 and WWII fighter's...

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 08:15 PM
StG77_Stuka wrote:
- 3. When the aircraft is reasonably close to the
- target, a light on the contact altimeter comes on to
- indicate the bomb-release point-usually at a minimum
- hight of 450m. The pilot releases the bomb by
- depressing a knob on the control column to release
- weapons and to initiate the automatic pull-out
- mechanism. A clutch located under the fuselage would
- swing the bomb out of the way of the propellor, and
- it also starts pulling the plane up automatically.
-
- 4. Pullout mechanism is activated and the airplane
- automatically initiates a 6g pullout, returning
- elevator trim tabs to normal position. Can be
- overridden by the pilot in emergency. Once nose is
- above horizon, dive brakes retract, throttle opens
- and air screw is set to climb. The pilot regains
- consciousness and control, and resumes normal
- flight. He use his remaining bombs under the wings
- for other targets. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- StG77_Stuka


Good info.

So... the bombs ought to be selectable; the autopilot should remain; but the 'autopilot' should also retract the brakes, put power on and set prop pitch as you pass through level. That would be cool /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and bump

XyZspineZyX
08-18-2003, 09:54 PM
So it's:

Dive>release bomb>come out of dive> go back up>dive>release bomb, etc, etc.

Now that sounds more realistic. The idea of diving, releasing a bomb, changing tack, releasing a bomb, changing tack releasing bomb, pulling out is what sounds like 'gaming the game' rather than realistic. If that were implimented I see no problem. The idea of bombing multiple targets in a single run is very un-realistic, don't you agree?

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:31 AM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
- So it's:
-
- Dive>release bomb>come out of dive> go back
- up>dive>release bomb, etc, etc.

Can be,
But also:

Visualize and line-up on target> Dive> Aquire target 1 and Select ordnance> Drop > Aquire target 2 and Select ordance> Drop > Pullout: Form up with formation at set ALT/HDG ASAP.

Staging separate attacks is ofcourse also possible as you described it and this is useful when targets are miles apart and there is enough time to regain enough altitude for another dive attack between the different targets.


CGA_TEXAS wrote:
The idea
- of bombing multiple targets in a single run is very
- un-realistic, don't you agree?

What is so unrealistic about an IL-2, Stuka, FW190, P47 or whatever aircraft to attack multiple targets during a bombing run?
Personaly I think it is kind of unrealistic to pick only one target per attack, especialy in a target rich environment. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Imagine that: A juicy fat target of a whole row of armored vehicles lined up and the flightleader says: "One tank at a time fellahs, lets keep it realistic. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


<marquee>
= = = = = StG77: Up to 66% Less Fire Power since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/18/0306:34PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 12:40 AM
Gunner_USMC wrote:
- I emailed Oleg about this when we got the Add-On of
- the Stuka in IL-2. He responded and COMPLETELY
- AGREED! He said he would try to implement it in FB,
- but I think it slid off the table.
-
- Now the way it would be best Implemented "in my
- opinion" is the following.
-
- Button Function
- 1-Guns 7.92's as is
- 2-Cannon Full release all stores
- 3-Rocket Wing Stores, in ripple if held
- 4-Bomb Belly Store
-
- It should be really simple to code that and would
- make everyone happy.
-
- Gunner Out
-
- <center><img
- src="http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars
- /GunnerSig2.jpg"></center>

Exactly. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Stripped of its Fire Power and Combat Effectiveness since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:31 AM
Well thats the point really, I don't think that you would have found many Stuka's picking off 3 targets in one run. IRL with the evidence that you have supplied it would have been 1 run onto a target and then a run onto another. No multiple targets in 1 run.

I think the whole thing comes down to whether you really want to emulate RL or just get as much as you can out of the game exploits. I don't blame you for wanting to un-realistically take out 2-3 targets in 1 hit, thats what would get you a higher score and for the younger people who game thats what is important. But for realism it would be 1 target for each run in.

Before you start I am no 'fighter' and have no preference other than making the game as realistic as it can be whilst still being balanced and playable. I just feel that the people calling for this change want to use an exploit that should be thought about. Whining may get you your wanted usage, but would it reflect RL? I think not. 1 run, 1 bomb.

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:03 AM
The issue is simple:
The Ju-87, FW-190 and some other aircraft do not have armament selectors, as opposed to P47 and IL2 for example that do have.

The bomb selector issue is a valid one so "whining" or "exploits" are not applicable.

TEX: Why dont you just start over and read the thread again before you get all carried away.

<marquee>
= = = = = StG 77 : Up to 66% less Fire Power since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/18/0308:11PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 09:11 AM
StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
- The issue is simple:
-
- The bomb selector issue is a valid one so "whining"
- or "exploits" are not applicable.
-
- TEX: Why dont you just start over and read the
- thread again before you get all carried away.
-

Actually there are 2 issues, which is why TEX has a point.

1. <u>Bomb selection</u> - As you say, simple, and should be implemented.

2. <u>Auto-pilot</u> - Getting rid of the auto-pilot recovery after a dive-attack, in order to make multiple runs would be an 'exploit.'

Of course, it would be quite possible to make a multi-drop pass from a shallower dive-attack where the dive brake (and whole auto-pilot thing) isn't engaged. Just like other attack ac do.

So, yes, bring on the bomb selector switchery, but leave the auto-pilot alone. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Message Edited on 08/19/0308:13AM by Kernow

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:23 AM
Thank you for making the mental leap to understanding Kernow. You have probably explained it better than I could have done. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The idea of switching targets in the middle of a diving bomb run is the crux of the matter. As you say, a low level strafing type attack would be within the realms of reality for a multiple target release.

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:10 PM
Kernow wrote:
- So, yes, bring on the bomb selector switchery, but
- leave the auto-pilot alone.

Hell yes: Ofcourse the best would be a completely historicaly correct Stuka.
Let me clear something up:
IIRC no one wanted to REMOVE the auto pullout feature (escpecialy not to "exploit"!) but rather have this option removed IF other things dont work BECAUSE OF the implementation of the pullout feature.

Sorry to say: We are NOT looking for exploits but a historicaly correct Stuka AND implemntation of bomb selector switches. (and out the window the "exploit accusation" goes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

Maybe the time will come that we can perform ground attacks in 87's and especialy FW190's as is possible with the P47 and IL2 now.
As said before it shouldnt be difficult to add bomb-buttons to aircraft.


EDIT PS: Now who came with the idea that a Stuka can only drop ONE bomb per dive or that bomb selector switches can not be used in a dive? Can this be historicaly underbuilt or "proven" before more exploit accusations are being made???
I "proved" there are bomb selector switches, now its anyones turn to "prove" they can not be used in flight or a pilot is not allowed or able to flick a switch during flight.

THANKS A LOT. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ... and good luck looking for an answer that isnt there! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Maybe I will go thru one of the books I have and quote or make a scan of the page where you can read a Stuka pilot attacking different targets with multiple bombs during one attack.
I feel however that there has been "proved" enough and it is just as ridiculous to add this as was adding the screenshots of the bomb selectors.
I dont feel I have to "spoon up" all info that people can find themselves rather easily. (In the case of the bomb selector switches in the 87 and 190 by SIMPLY firing up FB!!!)





<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Up to 66% less fire power since V1.1B = = = = = </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/19/0307:40AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 01:50 PM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
- Well thats the point really, I don't think that you
- would have found many Stuka's picking off 3 targets
- in one run. IRL with the evidence that you have
- supplied it would have been 1 run onto a target and
- then a run onto another. No multiple targets in 1
- run.

When atacking lightly skinned vehicles in a column, it would be a better tactic to ripple off your bombs. I can't prove it but I am digging to find a reference. I am sure Stuka pilots attacking infantry sometimes used multiple release points, all be it in rapid succesion, against trench defenses or columns.

You have to remember that Stuka pilots were the artists of pipoint bombing and early close air support.

One thing I have read, trying to locate the reference. is that Stukas would often attack a group in hardened vehicles with the belly store. Get the troops running and uncoverd and then do multiple 50kg and gun passes.

Gunner Out

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/GunnerSig2.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:07 PM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
- Just want to know if anyone has any verifiable
- accounts from Stuka pilot's memoirs of them actually
- doing a multiple target bomb drop.
-
- I can see how having the ability to drop some of the
- bombs on one target then swing around in a diferent
- direction and chose a different target for the rest
- would be useful in the game, but does it actually
- reflect real life? Any links to suitable proof of
- pilots actually:
- a: Being able to do this
- b: Actually doing it
- would be gratefully recieved.

Yes, I do have a historical account of Stuka pilots performing a multiple bomb drop. It's from the book "Blood Red Snow." Unfortunately I don't have the book in front of me right now.

EDIT: I just realized the book is on an entire another continent...damn. Anyhow, the author does recall seeing the Stukas make multiple passes on the Soviet armor/vehicles west of the Don river. If anyone else here has the book, can they post the text here?

JG54^Lukas
He 162A-2 Cockpit Modeler


Message Edited on 08/19/0303:11PM by JG54_Lukas

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 02:18 PM
Gunner_USMC wrote:
- When atacking lightly skinned vehicles in a column,
- it would be a better tactic to ripple off your
- bombs. I can't prove it but I am digging to find a
- reference. I am sure Stuka pilots attacking
- infantry sometimes used multiple release points, all
- be it in rapid succesion, against trench defenses or
- columns.

If a reference could be found for this then it would prove your theory and be a good case for the re-implimenting of the previous setup for the Stuka. Whether it is in a diving attack with the air brakes deployed is what is the crux of the matter.

- One thing I have read, trying to locate the
- reference. is that Stukas would often attack a group
- in hardened vehicles with the belly store. Get the
- troops running and uncoverd and then do multiple
- 50kg and gun passes.

I would expect from the description that the initial attack would have been conducted as a diving attack then, with strafing passes afterwards.

I think the previous posting from the manual really says it all

-1. The pilot finds his target and begins diving. Dive brakes open, this automatically noses the aircraft over into a dive. Red tabs protrude from the upper surfaces of the wing as a visual indicator to the pilot : at the same time the automatic dive recovery system is actuated. The pilot aims the entire aircraft at his target using a simple gun-type sight.

-2. The Stuka dives at an angle between 60-90 degrees and accelerates to 600km/h (350mph). It would hold this speed with the help of the dive-brakes located on the wing, but this inevitably puts a lot of stress on the structure.

-3. When the aircraft is reasonably close to the target, a light on the contact altimeter comes on to indicate the bomb-release point-usually at a minimum hight of 450m. The pilot releases the bomb by depressing a knob on the control column to release weapons and to initiate the automatic pull-out mechanism. A clutch located under the fuselage would swing the bomb out of the way of the propellor, and it also starts pulling the plane up automatically.

-4. Pullout mechanism is activated and the airplane automatically initiates a 6g pullout, returning elevator trim tabs to normal position. Can be overridden by the pilot in emergency. Once nose is above horizon, dive brakes retract, throttle opens and air screw is set to climb. The pilot regains consciousness and control, and resumes normal flight. He use his remaining bombs under the wings for other targets.

If you read the above it sounds as if the pullout is automatically set off after the bomb is dropped, I don't read into it that the pilot activates it and this is the whole point. Release of a bomb from the dive sets off the auto pullout. Whether that is a single choice of bomb or all of them seems unimportant. I know we are limited to the best the game can do for reality, but we might as well try to make it as close as we can get.

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 03:10 PM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
--4. Pullout mechanism is activated and the airplane automatically initiates a 6g pullout, returning elevator trim tabs to normal position. Can be overridden by the pilot in emergency. Once nose is above horizon, dive brakes retract, throttle opens and air screw is set to climb. The pilot regains consciousness and control, and resumes normal flight. He use his remaining bombs under the wings for other targets.


I strongly believe (IIRC it is a fact) that the part in bold text is not automatic, it is an operation that had to be performed by the pilot.


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:12 PM
Well the only thing which needs to be changed with the stuka is a selector for the bombs.BTW CGA_Texas stukas had a bomb selector switch in the cockpit as shown by Fritz.I hope Oleg considers giving us a key for selecting bombs (Shift+S?)
Although it is true that stukas generally made only one bombing run they did release their bombs at different points in the dive (for example releasing the SC250 at the front of the column & the SC50's at the rear would make a MUCH more effective attack than dropping all bombs only at the front.BTW this was historically accurate because one of the stuka checklists was selection of bombs which for the time being is absent in FB.).Oleg if you are reading this thread please could you consider giving us a key command for selection of bombs as this will not only benefit us Stuka pilots but all FB bomber pilots http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
BTW Happy birthday Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.warbirdpictures.com/LCBW/Ju87-B2-45.jpg


JU87B2 of 8/St.G77 , Smolensk Sept 1941

Stukageschwader77 soon divebombing an airbase near you.---- Visit www.stg-77.net (http://www.stg-77.net) to join StG77 ----



Message Edited on 08/19/0309:20PM by StG77_Sturm

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:33 PM
Lukas,

I have that same book, very good book, but I am in the same situation as you, I dont have it right infront of me.

As soon as I get back home I'll quote it here.

Its funny how some people are calling this an exploit...when all we want to do is bomb multiple targets in the same single dive...and if the pullout was modelled right, it would pullout at 450m, not 800m

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 05:34 PM
bump, poor StG77 guys! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>
---------------------------------------
Fokker G.I
http://www.defensie.nl:30280/home/pictures/7370.jpg
http://www.uvika.dn.ua/av/PLANE/HOLLAND/FOKKER_G-1/Fokker_G-1b_03a-n.jpg
</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:00 PM
Jippo01 wrote:
-
- CGA_TEXAS wrote:
---4. Pullout mechanism is activated and the airplane automatically initiates a 6g pullout, returning elevator trim tabs to normal position. Can be overridden by the pilot in emergency. Once nose is above horizon, dive brakes retract, throttle opens and air screw is set to climb. The pilot regains consciousness and control, and resumes normal flight. He use his remaining bombs under the wings for other targets.
-
-
- I strongly believe (IIRC it is a fact) that the part
- in bold text is not automatic, it is an operation
- that had to be performed by the pilot.
-
-
--jippo
-
-

Actually you do remember correctly, that final part isn't automatic, but the initial recovery is /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

From the link I posted above:

It will be remembered that when the dive brakes were placed in the high-drag position, before commencing the dive, a trim tab fitted to the elevators had lowered automatically to compensate for the resultant nose-up pitching moment. The operation of releasing the bombs activated a powerful spring, which returned that trim tab sharply to the neutral position. The nose of the aircraft now pitched up at 6G, to pull the aircraft firmly but smoothly out of the dive. The plane bottomed out of the dive at about 300m above the target, to give a margin of safety from splinters from the exploding bombs and enemy small-arms fire.

As the nose of the aircraft rose above the horizon the pilot returned the dive brakes to the low-drag position, opened the throttle, re-trimmed the aircraft and turned on to the pre-briefed escape heading. From an article on the Stuka by Dr Alfred Price.

Ideally Oleg & Co will be able to add some sort of bomb selector switch and leave the auto-pilot alone. If that can't be done I'd prefer things left as they are - and I do fly the Stuka regularly. The bomb selection issue would be a pain, but the extra immersion of the auto-recovery would, for me, outweigh that. I hope they can sort the selector switchery, otherwise some sort of 'fudge' will be made. I understand your reasons for wanting that to be no auto-pilot, but I'd rather keep it.

Hopefully, bombs will be selectable and everyone's happy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:17 PM
"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:19 PM
ups sorry for that one ^^^^^^
-
- The problem is that they made a decision. If you
- remember in FB 1.0, you would drop your bombs one by
- one, and the auto-pullout wouldn't activate. Now in
- 1.1b, they decided to pu tthe auto-pullout in, and
- to make it work right, they decided that all bombs
- should drop with one hit of the button.
-
- It would be better if it would change back to the
- way it was in 1.0, or use my idea or Ollie's idea.
-

Auto pull up? i tough it was a question of aerodinamic, u drop bomb, u change of wieghtness and aero.... would make you pull up, not an auto pull up?

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg


"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:25 PM
Aztek_Eagle wrote:

- Auto pull up? i tough it was a question of
- aerodinamic, u drop bomb, u change of wieghtness and
- aero.... would make you pull up, not an auto pull
- up?

Change in trim, increased speed, extended dive breaks all cause the nose to rise. That results in the 5-6G pull out.


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:31 PM
w w w . b e l l u m . n u
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SITE MAP - SITE INFO - BASICS OF WARFARE - WARFARE PHILOSOPHY - DOWNLOADS - INTERNET LINKS - GUESTBOOK





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BLITZKRIEG - JU87 Divebombing tactics:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The screaming siren of the Junkers Ju 87 dive-bomber was, at least for the early part of the war, synonymous with German blitzkrieg tactics and Nazi prowess. Highly popular with the Propaganda Ministry, the Stukas represent the peak of German military might. It was usually deployed before the army's attack and would soften any known defensive strong points. In the heat of the battle, however, army commanders would radio the Luftwaffe to send Stukas to destroy any unexpected opposition. When air superiority was obtained, the seagull-looking Stukas would harass retreating or trapped Allied troops. The plane was used extensively and almost exclusively to support army operation. The tight and smooth cooperation and communication between army and Luftwaffe commanders were the key elements in the successful campaign in 1940. The Ju 87 was slow and had a limited range, but it was a surprisingly accurate bomber. The bombs were basically controlled by the pilot until the very last moment. Usually a wing of 30 Stukas would attack a target in 10 groups of three planes. The common practice of a pilot was to begin his dive at 15,000ft at an angle of 60o-90o, turn on the cardboard siren, and dive earthward at up to 350mph. He would drop the bomb at around 2,000ft, and then immediately pull up the nose and overcome a force of four G to resume level flight. The Ju 87B was armed with two forward firing machine-guns, one machine gun in the rear cockpit for defense, four 110lb-bombs under the wings, and one 551lb-bomb under the fuselage in a clutch.

Pre-dive checklist:
1. Landing flaps at cruise position.
2. Elevator trim at cruise position.
3. Rudder trim at cruise position.
4. Aircrew pitch set at cruise.
5. Contact altimeter on.
6. Contact altimeter set to release height.
7. Supercharger set to automatic.
8. Throttle pulled right back.
9. Cooler flaps closed.
10. Dive brakes opened.
The dive sequence:
1. The pilot finds his target and begins diving. Dive brakes open, this automatically noses the aircraft over into a dive. Red tabs protrude from the upper surfaces of the wing as a visual indicator to the pilot : at the same time the automatic dive recovery system is actuated. The pilot aims the entire aircraft at his target using a simple gun-type sight.

2. The Stuka dives at an angle between 60-90 degrees and accelerates to 600km/h (350mph). It would hold this speed with the help of the dive-brakes located on the wing, but this inevitably puts a lot of stress on the structure.

3. When the aircraft is reasonably close to the target, a light on the contact altimeter comes on to indicate the bomb-release point-usually at a minimum hight of 450m. The pilot releases the bomb by depressing a knob on the control column to release weapons and to initiate the automatic pull-out mechanism. A clutch located under the fuselage would swing the bomb out of the way of the propellor, and it also starts pulling the plane up automatically.

4. Pullout mechanism is activated and the airplane automatically initiates a 6g pullout, returning elevator trim tabs to normal position. Can be overridden by the pilot in emergency. Once nose is above horizon, dive brakes retract, throttle opens and air screw is set to climb. The pilot regains consciousness and control, and resumes normal flight. He use his remaining bombs under the wings for other targets.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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ok this most clear it all , and i have find a lot simulary story`s in books to , like Jane`s fichting Aircraft of WW2 part 1942 till 1946.
15 years ago i have done some work in tha airforce museum as a volenteer and have spoken to old Luftwaffe pilots and Allies pilots.
I remamber that one of the german , (now a Amerikan) pilots was a stuka pilot and told to a groop of Allie ves how he diht a operatationel flight in a Skuka in france.
I remamber that he told that he was looking for targets and dive to it , bomb it and clim again , and lookout for new target till he was out of bombload , and sometime`s he diht after this olso a dive bombing atack just to scared the France and GB forces more and more.
So historical its correct if we cane do more than one simple dive bombing atack on `div targets.
Now we have 3 or 5 bombs and not able to do more than one divebombing atack.
Thats a fact if some of u dont belive it ! fine.
again We the bomber pilots dont have to prove it to u players , We most prove it to Oleg and his team and he know that we are correct or close to correct.
Now please All supporters for a good divebomber or just a plane thats not a Fighter , Bumb this posting so that it will be under atantion by oleg and not overrun by a zero or spitfire.

Thanks for all the support I/KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 07:46 PM
Bump & Stuka fact#1

"On completion of training Stuka pilots were expected to put 50% of bombs within 25 metres of the aiming point."

That's pretty accurate, especially compared to bombs delivered by level bombers. That's why the Stuka was so useful to the early blitzkrieg. BTW, "on completion of training" implies 'rookies' in game terms. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Intelligence (I) x Post count (P) = a constant (K)

Message Edited on 08/19/03‚ 06:47PM by Kernow

Message Edited on 08/19/0306:48PM by Kernow

XyZspineZyX
08-19-2003, 10:25 PM
Aztek_Eagle wrote:

-
- Auto pull up? i tough it was a question of
- aerodinamic, u drop bomb, u change of wieghtness and
- aero.... would make you pull up, not an auto pull
- up?
-

There are many stuka articles on the net, on exactly this function. Autopullup mechanisms were installed because pilots often blacked out when pulling out of dive from g-forces. But the auto pull-up is now automatically engaging at 800m(whether you've released bombs or not), when many articles speak of stuka pilots diving as low as 350-500m before releasing bomb(s). It's not aerodynamics pulling the aircraft out of dive(sorry to get off topic,but these are valid concerns).

http://www.arts-letters.com/warbirds/images/flex_stuka.gif





StG77_Stuka

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:30 AM
I'm sure that a Stuka pilot would want to lose the wing bombs before pulling out on the first target. All the documentaries I have seen, the plane drops all its ordinance in one dive. In reality I would like to think they loaded bombs according to the type of target they intended to attack. The wings would not handle that kind of stress.

...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

JerseyD
08-20-2003, 12:45 AM
I'd like to see it work like it does in WW2OL where you have a "toggle weapons" button that lets you switch between the 4 wings 50kg and the center 250kg before dropping them using your one and only bomb button.
Either that or make the 4, 50kg ones drop with button 4 (individually,one press per bomb drop)and the big mama 250kg or 500kg drop with button 3.

But to have them all drop at once like this sort of kills the whole Stuka experience in IL-2 one or the other needs to be done here.Please Oleg consider one of these methods

Also Id like to see the auto pullout be made togglable or something.

I dont like being forced to pull up after dropping one or two 50kg bombs It makes it a huge pain to have to fight my stick to get right again on the occasions that I decide to continue downward and drop a 3rd or 4th

<Center>http://home.cfl.rr.com/jerseydevil/JerseyDevil's%20Frag%20Zone/Frag%20Zone_files/109chevysig.jpg (http://www.mudmovers.com/Sims/IL2/il2_skins_sports.htm)</center>

J√¬®rs√©√¬ŅD√¬®v√¬*L

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Message Edited on 08/19/0307:47PM by JerseyD

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 01:19 AM
BuMp

The Prepatch Stuka
http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/DIVE2.jpg


http://www.mid-mo.net/phil/images/stg77banner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 02:21 AM
JerseyD wrote:
- Also Id like to see the auto pullout be made
- togglable or something.

As it was in real-life....

Rudel for one disabled it many times, preffering to get much lower before releasing his bombs.

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:19 AM
From the many articles I've read on this.......The pilot was able to preset the altitude he wanted the plane to automatically pull up. This would be great, if it's truly implimentable in this flight sim. Give us an ear full on this subject Oleg /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.arts-letters.com/warbirds/images/flex_stuka.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

StG77_Stuka

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 11:26 AM
StG77_Kondor wrote:
- JerseyD wrote:
-- Also Id like to see the auto pullout be made
-- togglable or something.
-
- As it was in real-life....
-
- Rudel for one disabled it many times, preffering to
- get much lower before releasing his bombs.
-


If the model in FB was of 'Rudels Stuka' then yes it should be. Remember you have to strike a balance here. Not everyone who flys is going to be Rudel.

If you are calling for the complete disablement of the dive brake auto pullout then that would be very unrealistic. Whats wrong with the selectable single bomb in a dive approach? Can you not go round again and dive again to release the rest of the load, as they would have done in reality?

One of the more intresting posts above by KG26_Oranje pretty much supports the single bomb in a dive scenario, and appears to be from the horses mouth itself. (Unfortunately I fail to understand what the hell he personally wrote at the bottom)

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 12:48 PM
StG77_Stuka wrote:

- But the auto pull-up is now
- automatically engaging at 800m(whether you've
- released bombs or not), when many articles speak of
- stuka pilots diving as low as 350-500m before
- releasing bomb(s). It's not aerodynamics pulling the
- aircraft out of dive(sorry to get off topic,but
- these are valid concerns).
-

Now that I hadn't noticed, but I tend to release when the horn goes off. It shouldn't just happen as it's the act of dropping the bombs which returns the trim tab to neutral thus giving the large nose-up trim change, not reaching any particular altitude. It would be good if you could set the contacting altimeter before flight.

Bump & Stuka fact #2

"Despite numerous assertions to the contrary, only a small proportion of Ju87 missions were Close Air Support operations against enemy ground forces in contact with friendly forces. To carry out the accurate steep-diving attack a stuka pilot needed to discern his target from at least 5,000 feet, and camouflaged troop positions in the battle area were difficult to see from such an altitude."

Kernow
249 IAP

Intelligence (I) x Post count (P) = a constant (K)

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:39 PM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
- If you are calling for the complete disablement of
- the dive brake auto pullout then that would be very
- unrealistic.

No, that would be unrealistic, as you said. What I was asking for was for it to be selectable...auto-pullout or not with the press of a button (as it was in real-life).

-----------------------------------------------------
</center>http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/stg77banner.jpg
-----------------------------------
When a German Infantry unit's advance is halted...who do they call?? The Fighter jocks? Get real!!...They call the STUKA Pilots !!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
08-20-2003, 03:58 PM
... As well as the ability to set the pullout altitude. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tex: We havent been calling for disablement of the pullout, but said we rather would go back to the "old" "IL2" Stuka, including falling off landing gear, poor FM etc and no pullout feature.

All in all; No need to discuss the topic anymore as the issues are recognized by the Dev team and work is in progress on the Stuka "bug".

The solution found is simply fantastic and goes above and beyond our wildest expectations.

Thumbs up and hats off for the Development Team!

You betcha we are looking forward to the official patch!

<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon returning in full force to an airbase near you! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif = = = = = </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/20/0310:00AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-21-2003, 07:19 PM
Diht i forgot totell u this?

Bumb bumb bumb lol

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:19 AM
- As we all know or at least...realized by now, the
- stuka, releases all of its bomb on one hit of the
- Button4(bomb) button.
-
- This is a step backward in my opinion. Why bother
- flying with bombs on the wing anymore? It's just a
- waste, who would load out with 1000kg of bombs, only
- to destroy 1 flak gun?

wasn't it's primiray role: precision bombing ?

It wasn't designed for C.A.S and the military doctrines say, attack ONCE and leave. Never ever go for second pass. you'Re low, your moment of surprise is gone, you're easy target.
Combine it with the fact that the Ju-87 is slow (and was outdated after BoB) why should you keep your bombs ?
You gonna climb again and tr 2nd time ?

Has anyone valid data on this (in case someone posted this already, ignore this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

I think it overall arcade like to drop seperate bombs. Next request will be that you want to drop every single bomb from your HE-111 (so much for precison or saturated carpet bombing..)

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 12:56 PM
Good show mate! Bump!!!!

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 02:44 PM
JaBo_HH--Gotcha wrote:
- I think it overall arcade like to drop seperate
- bombs.

There is nothing "arcadish" or "unrealistic" on selecting which loadout to drop.
Tell me what is so unrealistic about dropping a 500KG bomb first or the 50 KG bombs first to prove your point.
.... I probably wont get an answer to this one. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

EDIT: FYI a Pic: Scroll up for the Ju-87 bomb selector switch and emergency drop lever.

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/fw190fbombselector.JPG


Are the bomb selector switches put in for arcade gamers or might those aircraft actualy HAVE bomb selectors?
Now what does the answer "prove"?
... To me it does more than one thing. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

There are enough accounts of Ju-87 doing multiple attacks; In doubt? Search the internet and "prove" me otherwise instead of making a statement with "I think".
On top of that: Selecting which bombs to drop doesnt have anything to do with the amount of attackruns you might make but the sequence in which you drop your bombs.

The issues with the Ju-87 and FW-190 are valid, wether you like it or not. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Next request will be that you want to drop
- every single bomb from your HE-111 (so much for
- precison or saturated carpet bombing..)
-
-

You probably dont fly bombers Gotcha because this is already possible in the He-111. (dropping in pairs)
You can find this out by just starting FB.
FYI: He-111 can drop separate bombs or in salvo; In doubt? Go search the internet and "prove" otherwise. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I am amazed about the amount of people that come up with all kinds of statements like "I think", "I assume" etc. while they could have found out by just starting up FB, or do some simple research.
Then when you spoon up facts people seem to become deaf, blind and dumb. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

... Luckily the Development Team isnt, as they are open for bugreports which are a solid and with facts underbuilt case.

<CAPS>The Stuka issues are recognized by the Development Team and will be solved.</CAPS>

On a sidenote:
Hopefuly never again a bug will occur in for example the IL-2, P-47 or any other bomber/ground attack aircraft that makes it discharge all its ordnance at once, or have all ordnance mapped to one button so there is no option to select which ordnance to fire.



<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

Message Edited on 08/22/0309:01AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 03:35 PM
~B~U~M~P~

Check out the thread below also. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zuxkb



<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 04:36 PM
I hope it works!

BUMB!!!

S! I/KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 07:19 PM
Ollie's Idea sucks IMHO. Virtually it's the crap we had before: first drop those small wing bombs, THEN the big one; drop all in one. If a selector is not possible they should make it like in Il-2, BUT change the order. First the big one in the center, then the smaller ones on the wings. Why?? Very easy... you do a dive on some targets - there the biggest bomb does all the job, then you're dead meat for enemy fighters anyways. That's why there's a need for fighter cover. But then, while under cover they can do a second or even third run with the small ones. I think it's the best solution. It's even better for the FWs or P-47. Additionally a selector for dropping in pairs (like in 1.0) or dropping all would be suitable.


<hr>

<p align=center style="width:100%; filter:glow[color=#33CCFF, strength=2)">

<img src=http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/willey110.jpg border=0 alt="Hier geht's zur I/JG78"> (http://www.jg78.de)

</p><font color=59626B>

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 07:55 PM
Redwulf__55 wrote:
- I'm sure that a Stuka pilot would want to lose the
- wing bombs before pulling out on the first target.
- All the documentaries I have seen, the plane drops
- all its ordinance in one dive. In reality I would
- like to think they loaded bombs according to the
- type of target they intended to attack. The wings
- would not handle that kind of stress.
-
The first post on the subject that takes into consideration the reality of the Stukas' capabilities, and not simply what some wish it would do.

Redwulf is spot on.

A 250KG bomb weighs 1500kg @ 6G's, so we are being asked to beleive that the Ju-87's wings will remain intact during pullout with 2 SC250's still attached, weighing in at a hefty 3,000Kg,(@ 6 X the force of gravity) after the centerline SC500 has been released.
If someone will explain how the Stuka, or any aircraft, flies sans wings I will be more amenable to the "mutiple re-attack theory" of bomb release. Otherwise, I remain convinced that the release sequence as currently modelled is accurate.
If a plane has/had a sequential release routine it would be to release ordnance in a certain order for correct tactical placement, or to jettison certain weapons under certain circumstances, not to regain attack altitude and re-attack. The wings would simply shear off if the pilot tried this.
This is a DIVE BOMBER. The attack methodology is very different than that of a level bomber.
The Stuka may well have had the capability of differential release, but not for the purposes being espoused the "re-attack school" so prevalant in these posts-
S!
Chris

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 08:18 PM
What will be the use of a bomb selector switch if there is nothing to switch?

The solution is simple:

- Centerline bomb mapped to a button
- Wing bombs mapped to a button
- All bombs release when auto pullout engages





<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 06:08 AM
BUMP

Please give us selectable bomb dropping! The P47 could really use this too.

http://www.blarg.net/~Pete/IL2
http://www.blarg.net/~Pete/redbaron.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 01:13 PM
- Redwulf is spot on.
-
- A 250KG bomb weighs 1500kg @ 6G's, so we are being
- asked to beleive that the Ju-87's wings will remain
- intact during pullout with 2 SC250's still attached,
- weighing in at a hefty 3,000Kg,(@ 6 X the force of
- gravity) after the centerline SC500 has been
- released.
- If someone will explain how the Stuka, or any
- aircraft, flies sans wings I will be more amenable
- to the "mutiple re-attack theory" of bomb release.
- Otherwise, I remain convinced that the release
- sequence as currently modelled is accurate.
- If a plane has/had a sequential release routine it
- would be to release ordnance in a certain order for
- correct tactical placement, or to jettison certain
- weapons under certain circumstances, not to regain
- attack altitude and re-attack. The wings would
- simply shear off if the pilot tried this.
- This is a DIVE BOMBER. The attack methodology is
- very different than that of a level bomber.
- The Stuka may well have had the capability of
- differential release, but not for the purposes being
- espoused the "re-attack school" so prevalant in
- these posts-
- S!
- Chris


A good post and very pertinant to the subject.

Unfortunantely you will find that this whining has less to do with realistic accuracy as it does with being able to target more than one target in a single bomb dive. The whole point to this original post was so that they could continue to begin a dive, drop some ordinance on one target, then in mid dive totally change course and target another before having to pull out.
This is just in the name of game playing, score, etc. and has no bearing on anything that the Stuka may or may not have been able to do irl.
Bomb selection should be put back into the game for certain aircraft, Stuka included, but will be at the expense of realism in gameplay if the release of a bomb when dive brakes have been deployed didn't trigger the auto pullout. If the dive brakes are not deployed then the bombs can be dropped as any other aircraft would, even at multiple targets.
We shall see whether the whining of a few can overide realism in game in the next patch release, I sincerly hope that the developers can be brave enough to hold with facts rather than conceptual guesses by 'gamers'.

112th Scavenger Squadron

Message Edited on 08/24/0301:22PM by CGA_TEXAS

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:36 PM
CGA_TEXAS wrote:
. The whole point to this original
- post was so that they could continue to begin a
- dive, drop some ordinance on one target, then in mid
- dive totally change course and target another before
- having to pull out.

Yes; Thats exactly the point. Being able to line up on a target, dive onto it. SLIGHTLY ADJUST (instead of "totaly change course") and dive onto a second target and pull out.
Please come with facts instead of strange accusations and talking dirt about a whole squadron.

There is nothing unrealistic or "gamer" here.
It is simply dropping bomb in sequence instead of all at once.
I see at least you admit and realize that there are such things as bomb selectors in existance and that they should be implemented and/or brought back to FB.

A "Gamer" POV is what I understand in the following quote.


CGA_TEXAS wrote:

- Bomb selection should be put back into the game for
- certain aircraft, Stuka included, but will be at the
- expense of realism in gameplay if the release of a
- bomb when dive brakes have been deployed didn't
- trigger the auto pullout. If the dive brakes are not
- deployed then the bombs can be dropped as any other
- aircraft would, even at multiple targets.


Now talk about "gaming". I havent even thought of the little "cheat" you come up with not to deploy the divebrakes!

Dont talk about things or people you dont know anything about TEX; You havent added too much to the conversation than throwing dirt and making a fool out of yourself.



CGA_TEXAS wrote:
I
- sincerly hope that the developers can be brave
- enough to hold with facts rather than conceptual
- guesses by 'gamers'.

LOL Look at all the "conceptual guesses" you have made. Like me to quote some? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


But I agree to the statement: And what it comes down to to make the Stuka as realistic as possible is: (and I bet we agree on those ones as they are all "historicaly correct" and "facts")

- A working bombselector
Centerline bomb on a button and wingbombs on another button as the easiest solution to implement the bomb selector switch.

- Autopullout mechanism fully realistic:
Meaning that all bombs on aircraft drop when auto-pullout engages.

Also the ability to set the autopullout altitude by pilot should be implemented for FR.
As you might know or if you do some research you will find that this is possible in the Stuka.





<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>



Message Edited on 08/24/0310:52AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 04:46 PM
PS:
Redwulf is spot on about the release on pullout and G-forces on the aircraft in the pullout.

However: Not all attacks in the Stuka are made in a straight dive though, which is what many people assume, and it does nothing off to the fact though as to have a bomb selector switch or not.

http://www.warbirdpictures.com/LCBW4/Ju87-89.jpg





<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Pinpointing a target near you. = = = = = </marquee>

Message Edited on 08/24/0311:02AM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 05:12 PM
From the manual (sorry too lazy to translate) but i'm sure the German speaking readers could make a quick translation /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Zum einschalten der abwurfanlange und zum vorw√¬§hlen einer oder mehrerer zum abwurf bestimmter bomben sind f√ľr die rumpfbombe und f√ľr dir fl√ľgelbomben getrennte ausl√¬∂seschaltk√¬§sten auf der rechten seite des instrumentenbretts vorhanden.

die eigentliche ausl√¬∂sung der bomben erfolgt sodann zum gew√ľnschten zeitpunkt durch einen elektrischen druckknopf am steuerkn√ľppel.

Ausserdem ist als notausl√¬∂sung f√ľr alle bomben gemeinsam ein besonders gekennzeichneter handgriff rechts im instrumentenbrett angeordnet.

zur z√ľndzeitpunkt-einstellung ist ein z√ľnderumformer und ein z√ľnderschaltkasten vorhanden"


Butch

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 06:57 PM
German is not my first language, nor is English, so to my best ability:



- Zum einschalten der abwurfanlange und zum vorw√¬§hlen
- einer oder mehrerer zum abwurf bestimmter bomben
- sind f√ľr die rumpfbombe und f√ľr dir fl√ľgelbomben
- getrennte ausl√¬∂seschaltk√¬§sten auf der rechten seite
- des instrumentenbretts vorhanden. "

To switch the release and to preselect one or several for the to be released bombs, are for the centerline bomb and for the winged bombs separate release switchboxes available on the right side of the instrumentboard.

- die eigentliche ausl√¬∂sung der bomben erfolgt sodann
- zum gew√ľnschten zeitpunkt durch einen elektrischen
- druckknopf am steuerkn√ľppel."

The actual release of the bombs happens at the desired time by an electrical pushbutton on the control stick.


- Ausserdem ist als notausl√¬∂sung f√ľr alle bomben
- gemeinsam ein besonders gekennzeichneter handgriff
- rechts im instrumentenbrett angeordnet."

In addition as emergency release for all bombs altogether is a perticulary characterized handle on right side of the instrument panel,


"- zur z√ľndzeitpunkt-einstellung ist ein z√ľnderumformer
- und ein z√ľnderschaltkasten vorhanden"

For fuse/detonator-timer-setting is a fuse/detonator transformer and a fuse/detonator switchbox available.


(Edited to get more accurate translation)

Message Edited on 08/24/0301:24PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 07:09 PM
Keep 'em coming Butch and I take the time to translate. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

#38: Bombing Control Panel

http://members.fortunecity.com/stg77/bcp.JPG



Message Edited on 08/24/0301:39PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 08:49 PM
StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
- Dont talk about things or people you dont know
- anything about TEX; You havent added too much to the
- conversation than throwing dirt and making a fool
- out of yourself.


I think the only one showing immaturity here is yourself with your abusive comments. Not once have I accused either anyone in particular or the group they belong to of anything other than 'wanting to game the game'
Your remarks belie your immaturity and lack of experience in argueing a point to its conclusion.

You carry on with your blinkered views and selfish rants.

112th Scavenger Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:04 PM
TEX: You clearly assumed we were a bunch of gamers looking for exploits now didnt you?

Lack of being abke to argue a point is something to look for in one of your drawers.
It took 125 posts to get thru to you that there is such a thing as bomb selectors in aircraft, never mind emergency release buttons.
I have yet to see any references or background information from aything you assumed, could imagine or thought to be realistic.
I only try to add useful information based in factual info, screenshots, pictures etcetera. and not only for me, but for anyone who has interest in bombing so there is no reason to call me selfish.

What I read above in the post you just made I consider an immature rant myself.
Why not add something useful, like a reply to the translation of what Butch posted instead of giving a personal touch to the discussion?



<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:14 PM
IRRELEVANT FOR ANYONE BUT TEX.


CGA_TEXAS wrote:
- Unfortunantely you will find that this whining has
- less to do with realistic accuracy as it does with
- being able to target more than one target in a
- single bomb dive. The whole point to this original
- post was so that they could continue to begin a
- dive, drop some ordinance on one target, then in mid
- dive totally change course and target another before
- having to pull out.
- This is just in the name of game playing, score,
- etc. and has no bearing on anything that the Stuka
- may or may not have been able to do irl.
- Bomb selection should be put back into the game for
- certain aircraft, Stuka included, but will be at the
- expense of realism in gameplay if the release of a
- bomb when dive brakes have been deployed didn't
- trigger the auto pullout. If the dive brakes are not
- deployed then the bombs can be dropped as any other
- aircraft would, even at multiple targets.
- We shall see whether the whining of a few can
- overide realism in game in the next patch release, I
- sincerly hope that the developers can be brave
- enough to hold with facts rather than conceptual
- guesses by 'gamers'.


Theres the quote.

-that this whining has less to do with realistic accuracy as it does with being able to target more than one target in a single bomb dive.

The reason the thread is started is to bring up the Stuka bugs and get the Stuka realistic and not "whining" at all as you try to get across.

The whole point to this original
- post was so that they could continue to begin a
- dive, drop some ordinance on one target, then in mid
- dive totally change course and target another before
- having to pull out.

Who are "they", other than Stuka pilots or the starters of the thread who happen to be a group of Stuka pilots?

This is just in the name of game playing, score,
- etc. and has no bearing on anything that the Stuka
- may or may not have been able to do irl.

Here you basicaly say we are "point hungry" bunch of "gamers" now dont you?
Quiet offensive if I may say so.

"No bearing on anything"... Well; Proven wrong there also and another attempt throwing dirt and trying to portrait the Stuka bug as totaly ridiculous as well as the people that bring the bug to attention as a bunch of story tellers.

- We shall see whether the whining of a few can
- overide realism

The Stuka issues are valid and recognized, though you still think it is whining of a few.
"override realism"... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I think you are one of the whining few.
I rather see posts like Butch's that add something to the discussion.

The thread is supposed to get the Stuka as realsitic as possible and implement real life features, as opposed to the accusations you made in the post and taking things personal.

Nuff said.



Message Edited on 08/24/0303:32PM by StG77_Fritz_X

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:44 PM
http://members.lycos.nl/DeeJay/ju87.jpg



StG77_Fritz_X wrote:
- German is not my first language, nor is English, so
- to my best ability:
-
-
-
-- Zum einschalten der abwurfanlange und zum vorw√¬§hlen
-- einer oder mehrerer zum abwurf bestimmter bomben
-- sind f√ľr die rumpfbombe und f√ľr dir fl√ľgelbomben
-- getrennte ausl√¬∂seschaltk√¬§sten auf der rechten seite
-- des instrumentenbretts vorhanden. "
-
- To switch the release and to preselect one or
- several for the to be released bombs, are for the
- centerline bomb and for the winged bombs separate
- release switchboxes available on the right side of
- the instrumentboard.
-
-- die eigentliche ausl√¬∂sung der bomben erfolgt sodann
-- zum gew√ľnschten zeitpunkt durch einen elektrischen
-- druckknopf am steuerkn√ľppel."
-
- The actual release of the bombs happens at the
- desired time by an electrical pushbutton on the
- control stick.
-
-
-- Ausserdem ist als notausl√¬∂sung f√ľr alle bomben
-- gemeinsam ein besonders gekennzeichneter handgriff
-- rechts im instrumentenbrett angeordnet."
-
- In addition as emergency release for all bombs
- altogether is a perticulary characterized handle on
- right side of the instrument panel,
-
-
-
- "- zur z√ľndzeitpunkt-einstellung ist ein
- z√ľnderumformer
-- und ein z√ľnderschaltkasten vorhanden"
-
- For fuse/detonator-timer-setting is a fuse/detonator
- transformer and a fuse/detonator switchbox
- available.
-
-
- (Edited to get more accurate translation)
-
- Message Edited on 08/24/03‚ 01:24PM by
- StG77_Fritz_X

http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Stuka/Rudel/ju87_1.jpg


BUMP

<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 11:25 PM
i love the idea of 2 buttons for bombs, should be a generic thing, for like each point

but imagine your dive bombing a convoy, u hit first vechicle, u pull up a lil for a mid point
iirc pilots would override the autopullup sometimes too
oh and i think theres ment tobe a single machine gun on the g, for aiming. think i read it in the il2 object view text http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 12:33 AM
To the creater of this post!!
All bended out in neon, no flaws.
I hope 1c will get your main ride back on tracks..http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VH

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 07:04 PM
Great work guy`s (exept TEX), lets hopethe problems wil be repaird after the next update.
sorry my engliche is not so good so to trans late my know how on the germans plane`s is a pain in the ....... well u know lol.
Buht u have all done it for me already.

Greatings I/KG26_Oranje

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 01:51 PM
BUMP

http://www.danny246.freeserve.co.uk/stuka.jpg


<marquee>
= = = = = Sturzkampfgeschwader 77 : Soon to be Back in Full Force. = = = = = </marquee>

JerseyD
09-04-2003, 10:40 PM
From readme version 1.1 Final


"Weapons

Revised the Ju-87 'Stuka' bomb handling:
- When pressing the bomb trigger ('Weapon 3' button), the bombs are released in a conventional way, in pairs like on the other planes.
- Opposed to, when the dive autopilot reaches the recovery altitude, it dumps the payload as awhole.
- You now can adjust the dive autopilot recovery altitude with 'Increase Bombsight Altitude' and 'Decrease Bombsight Altitude' buttons, alike the level bombers bombsight."

Thanks for listening Oleg /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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J√¬®rs√©√¬ŅD√¬®v√¬*L

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volkware.xyz
01-07-2005, 12:15 PM
To resurrect this but with a different concern in mind,

Could we set a setting to prevent the siren/airbrake from initiating an automatic bomb release? I wish to engage the siren and control my own dive... as well as controlling my own bomb release.

Using the siren is so integral to this plane, yet I do not want to give up control.

Athosd
01-07-2005, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warlok_0:
To resurrect this but with a different concern in mind,

Could we set a setting to prevent the siren/airbrake from initiating an automatic bomb release? I wish to engage the siren and control my own dive... as well as controlling my own bomb release.

Using the siren is so integral to this plane, yet I do not want to give up control. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The siren comes on when you engage the dive brakes. Engaging the dive brakes sets the altitude bomb release mechanism (you can adjust the altitude with the Increase/Decrease sight altitude commands) - which drops the bombs and pulls you out of the dive automatically at the set altitude (just as in the real thing).

The siren itself is just an associated sound effect. To retain manual control over bomb release in the dive just set the 'sight altitude' to something lower than your intended release height - or don't apply dive brakes and use a shallower approach.