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View Full Version : Full Synch Requirements Need To Go



DarthViscer
03-21-2013, 04:19 AM
I know I am not alone in this but these pestilences need to go as they are ruining what could be an even more amazing franchise. This necessary stealth and forced gameplay is driving me insane in the Betrayal and I have never been so frustrated with any AC in the series until now. The constant reloaded checkpoints and failed objectives is beyond aggravating and limiting the way that I, the player, wants to play the **** game! This isn't to say that I am playing it wrong as I am a series veteran, day one purchaser of every title. Full Synch, while you may have seemed a good idea, you are implemented horribly and need to rethink setting foot in the Caribbean, give me my freedom back!

BigTrevor94
03-21-2013, 04:23 AM
I agree with you in some parts. I enjoy the challenge of like not taking any damage or whatnot but yes I too HATE the stealth challenges because I mean come on we are ASSASSINS just run over there get the plans burn them and stab people along the way. Anyways I think it they modified the stealth aspect it might be better but I think doing away with the whole this would get rid of a air of a challenge which people like me like :)

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 04:45 AM
It's not the full sync requirements that are the problem. In The Betrayal, I actually thought the sync requirements improved upon. The problem is with the broken detection system. Maybe if there were more active ways to sneak around guards like, I dunno', distract them, you'd find yourself having to deal less with the bust up detection system. Or continue to limit the already minimal stealth playstyle, but for the love of jebus fix that detection system you plowing whorson's!

Come to think of it, maybe they want this system to be broke in order to artificially inseminate difficulty right up our arses in the hopes we'll be blind to the fact that without this broken system the game would be even more of a doddle. That's such a lame way to give the impression of difficulty.

BATISTABUS
03-21-2013, 04:46 AM
I think requirements similar to Full Synch are good if justified and used properly. For example, mandatory requirements like "don't kill anyone" or "don't be detected" or "kill the captain before x" can be great ways to make you rethink your approach, but still allow you to experiment.

Assassin_M
03-21-2013, 05:00 AM
forced gameplay
Nope...never happened

BigTrevor94
03-21-2013, 05:21 AM
Nope...never happened

I agree, you aren't forced to do anything, however by you saying that it says, at least to me that you don't want to get it removed because you enjoy the challenge:)

Assassin_M
03-21-2013, 05:30 AM
I agree, you aren't forced to do anything, however by you saying that it says, at least to me that you don't want to get it removed because you enjoy the challenge:)
Yep...as frustrating as it is, I`d take that over easier crap....dunno how it can get easier than that, though..

Aphex_Tim
03-21-2013, 08:17 AM
In my opinion the full sync system doesn't need to go but it does need to be changed.
Most of the time I just ignore these objectives because they don't fit my playing style. It's completely optional so no problems there.
But what I don't like is that if you DIDN'T complete an optional objective or fail one mid-mission, the game needs to rub it in your face with big red text and a big red cross in the top corner of the screen which sometimes even stay on your screen for the rest of the mission. It's like the game is constantly telling me: "You're doing it wrong!!!", which should not be the case with optional objectives.

jamgamerforever
03-21-2013, 08:21 AM
Another god **** flying as an eagle scene, another god **** don't hit any obstacles requirement. :mad:

doogsy91
03-21-2013, 11:58 AM
They have absolutely got to go. They are freedom restricting. Imagine if Far Cry 3 had have had the same system. A game that is based around and prides itself on freedom of player choice, just as AC once did. Constantly being reminded that you've done the mission all wrong would have broken the game. FC shouldn't have it and neither should AC.

ace3001
03-21-2013, 12:01 PM
You know what full synch requirement has to go? DON'T HIT ANY OBSTACLES. Seriously? I'm not playing Assassin's Creed to freakin' fly around as an eagle! That is so far the most frustrating part. The others were okay, and fun as well. Even the main AC III had this same nasty requirement that made me want to hit someone.

pirate1802
03-21-2013, 12:03 PM
Even the main AC III had this same nasty requirement that made me want to hit someone.

with a fish?

ace3001
03-21-2013, 12:16 PM
with a fish?
I'd prefer the dead body of an eagle.

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 12:19 PM
I'd prefer the dead body of an eagle.

I did that sync on my second try. Eat dust, noob. :cool:

Assassin_M
03-21-2013, 12:19 PM
I did that sync on my second try. Eat dust, noob. :cool:
first try, kids

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 12:21 PM
first try, kids

Psst. First the worst second the best. You can't mess with that logic.

Assassin_M
03-21-2013, 12:22 PM
Psst. First the worst second the best. You can't mess with that logic.
Yes I can, I`m M...who are you ?

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 12:28 PM
Yes I can, I`m M...who are you ?

To you? nobody. :p

ace3001
03-21-2013, 12:29 PM
I did that sync on my second try. Eat dust, noob. :cool:Considering I did everything else on the first or second try (except for the ship stuff which I'm not going to even bother with *shudder*), I don't really care. Fact is, I'm not playing some Bird Simulator, but Assassin's Creed, and I'd like the gameplay to reflect that. Having a flying part is okay for a while, but even base 100% synch requirements on that? And not just once in the main game, but repeat it in DLC as well?

Assassin_M
03-21-2013, 12:29 PM
To you? nobody. :p
Alright I`m sorry...you`re very important to me...I feel bad

Assassin_M
03-21-2013, 12:30 PM
Considering I did everything else on the first or second try (except for the ship stuff which I'm not going to even bother with *shudder*), I don't really care. Fact is, I'm not playing some Bird Simulator, but Assassin's Creed, and I'd like the gameplay to reflect that. Having a flying part is okay for a while, but even base 100% synch requirements on that? And not just once in the main game, but repeat it in DLC as well?
I didn't see you complain about the flying machine that had a trophy AND was unrelpayable

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 12:30 PM
Considering I did everything else on the first or second try (except for the ship stuff which I'm not going to even bother with *shudder*), I don't really care. Fact is, I'm not playing some Bird Simulator, but Assassin's Creed, and I'd like the gameplay to reflect that. Having a flying part is okay for a while, but even base 100% synch requirements on that? And not just once in the main game, but repeat it in DLC as well?

Didn't anyone tell you that this DLC isn't even set in reality? It's supposed to be a bit of out the AC norm fun.

ace3001
03-21-2013, 12:45 PM
I didn't see you complain about the flying machine that had a trophy AND was unrelpayableYou mean in AC2? I wasn't here during the release of AC2. Joined quite a bit later.


Didn't anyone tell you that this DLC isn't even set in reality? It's supposed to be a bit of out the AC norm fun.
I'm not talking about it from a narrative perspective, but from a gameplay perspective. Not to mention it was there in the main game as well, in the "follow Juno" part.

Assassin_M
03-21-2013, 12:47 PM
You mean in AC2? I wasn't here during the release of AC2. Joined quite a bit later.
Show me proof that you complained D:

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 12:48 PM
I know I am not alone in this but these pestilences need to go as they are ruining what could be an even more amazing franchise. This necessary stealth and forced gameplay is driving me insane in the Betrayal and I have never been so frustrated with any AC in the series until now. The constant reloaded checkpoints and failed objectives is beyond aggravating and limiting the way that I, the player, wants to play the **** game! This isn't to say that I am playing it wrong as I am a series veteran, day one purchaser of every title. Full Synch, while you may have seemed a good idea, you are implemented horribly and need to rethink setting foot in the Caribbean, give me my freedom back!

Hmm whilst i like the full sync requirements due to the fact that it added that extra bit of challenge i do agree that some of the full sync requirements are absolutely riddiculous ! and like yourself i do find myself keep reloading check points which becomes exarsperating and frustrating, some are near imposible and some take the enjoyment out the game.

ace3001
03-21-2013, 12:57 PM
Show me proof that you complained D:Considering I don't even know what the achivement/trophy was (I play on PC, and Ubisoft didn't have achievements for PC versions back then, only those pretty much useless Uplay Actions), of course I didn't complain. What was it, anyway? Don't get hit by archers or something?

Rugterwyper32
03-21-2013, 01:08 PM
I felt TokW got more or less the hang of what I felt was the problem with full sync. It feels like rather than designing missions around all the objectives, they design the side objectives around the mission, which works a lot better for obvious reasons.
Many main missions in AC3 were either in a situation where the best way to do things would be getting full sync (Pitcairn) or they would feel tacked on and nonsensical.

SixKeys
03-21-2013, 03:30 PM
Considering I don't even know what the achivement/trophy was (I play on PC, and Ubisoft didn't have achievements for PC versions back then, only those pretty much useless Uplay Actions), of course I didn't complain. What was it, anyway? Don't get hit by archers or something?

I believe it was "kick a guard while flying". But yeah, I'm on PC as well, so I never had to worry about AC2 trophies.

The only problem with full sync is that it's too obvious. The requirements should be hidden away in a separate menu, similar to the Frontiersmen challenges ("skin X number of animals" etc.), not plastered in red all over the screen on your first playthrough. They should be extra challenges for those who want to play the game a certain way, but shouldn't be forced on every player. (You can argue I'm not forced to do the challenges, but I'm still forced to see that irritating red "failed" text.)

pirate1802
03-21-2013, 03:42 PM
They should be extra challenges for those who want to play the game a certain way, but shouldn't be forced on every player. (You can argue I'm not forced to do the challenges, but I'm still forced to see that irritating red "failed" text.)

Exactly. They should be EXTRA achievements, like the Ghost/Pacifist/Foxiest of the Hound achievements of DEHR, and shouldn't take anything away from the base game. Reward the player if he manged to do a mission without being detected, but don't penalize him for ramboing in (well apart from the obvious penalty of having to face a million soldiers). AC was about freedom. let's bring it back.

Also, the full sync objectives would make sense if they actually were Assassinlike, like don't get detected, don't cause unnecessary casualties etc. Remember the full sync condition on that Leaving Istanbul mission of ACR? Don't kill anyone with blades. Seriously! Its like they decided to set the conditions while having a coffee without giving it any thought as to how it fits into the mission.

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 03:48 PM
I love the idea of full sync, but the execution isn't quite right. I've been replaying AC2, and I'm trying for a stealthy, minimalistic (minimal kills) play through. It's a blast, but if I fail, I don't have to worry about it. I think they should move in the direction of Castlevania Lords of Shadow's trials. In LOS, there is a trial for each mission (very similar to full sync), but they aren't available until you have already completed the mission once. So basically, they do what the full sync requirements were meant to do: increase replay. But they don't force you to play a certain way the first time, or even more than one time, since once it unlocks, it is always unlocked. I don't even think they will tell you "Trial Failed" if you've already passed it once. It works, and I think Ubisoft could benefit from a similar design.
Also, I'd love if they had multiple sync requirements (though it doesn't make sense in the animus scenario), so that you had to try replaying it in multiple ways, kinda like the challenges in Hitman Absolution.

Rugterwyper32
03-21-2013, 04:48 PM
I love the idea of full sync, but the execution isn't quite right. I've been replaying AC2, and I'm trying for a stealthy, minimalistic (minimal kills) play through. It's a blast, but if I fail, I don't have to worry about it. I think they should move in the direction of Castlevania Lords of Shadow's trials. In LOS, there is a trial for each mission (very similar to full sync), but they aren't available until you have already completed the mission once. So basically, they do what the full sync requirements were meant to do: increase replay. But they don't force you to play a certain way the first time, or even more than one time, since once it unlocks, it is always unlocked. I don't even think they will tell you "Trial Failed" if you've already passed it once. It works, and I think Ubisoft could benefit from a similar design.

I like how you bring Lords of Shadow's trials into this. I've been replaying it recently (gonna get a 3DS once my birthday rolls and Mirror of Fate) and the idea of the trials works perfectly with this. Other idea I had for full sync was one similar to the challenges from Hitman Absolution. There's a variety of challenges and they don't limit the way you can go around missions, and you can complete them in different playthroughs. Do this in one run, then you can do that in next run, and eventually you have all the challenges done.

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 05:30 PM
I like how you bring Lords of Shadow's trials into this. I've been replaying it recently (gonna get a 3DS once my birthday rolls and Mirror of Fate) and the idea of the trials works perfectly with this. Other idea I had for full sync was one similar to the challenges from Hitman Absolution. There's a variety of challenges and they don't limit the way you can go around missions, and you can complete them in different playthroughs. Do this in one run, then you can do that in next run, and eventually you have all the challenges done.

Exactly, though they couldn't include it as full sycn, since obviously there is only one way the ancestor did things. Maybe reintroduce the idea of glitches from AC1? You know, where the screen would go fuzzy and you could view a cutscene from somebody else's perspective? Only now, the glitches allow you to complete the mission differently from how the ancestor did, but be rewarded for it? I'm kinda rambling, so let me know what you think.

Rugterwyper32
03-21-2013, 05:38 PM
Exactly, though they couldn't include it as full sycn, since obviously there is only one way the ancestor did things. Maybe reintroduce the idea of glitches from AC1? You know, where the screen would go fuzzy and you could view a cutscene from somebody else's perspective? Only now, the glitches allow you to complete the mission differently from how the ancestor did, but be rewarded for it? I'm kinda rambling, so let me know what you think.

That sounds like a logical idea, too. Heck, considering the fact that it seems the animus is being used as an Abstergo made game, that could work. They could even say "we played around with the memories and created these challenges that we feel he would have seen as other options" or something.

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 05:52 PM
Curse it all!!! I love the animus for it's story element, but hate the restrictions it puts on game design!!!

Rugterwyper32
03-21-2013, 06:02 PM
Curse it all!!! I love the animus for it's story element, but hate the restrictions it puts on game design!!!

That's my main issue with it. It adds some great elements, but the limitations it adds just complicate things and make game design not as effective and free as it could be

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 06:03 PM
They have absolutely got to go. They are freedom restricting. Imagine if Far Cry 3 had have had the same system. A game that is based around and prides itself on freedom of player choice, just as AC once did. Constantly being reminded that you've done the mission all wrong would have broken the game. FC shouldn't have it and neither should AC.

I used like because of the challenge they presented but agreed they should go some are near impossible and i end getting the ump with the the game ! for example the battle of bunker hill when you have get on the British ships undetected i mean come on ubi please who come up with these effin calamities !

hoodrat94
03-21-2013, 06:22 PM
Number of objectives to get full synch are going to increase if they follow the trend!
Only one objective was required to get full synch in brotherhood, maybe it's was same for revelations. But in ac3 you had like 3 objectives sometimes.
So its going to be like 4/5 in ac4 lol!

Here is a mission from ac4(speculating)
*take leap of faith from jackdaw
*only jump into hay carts
*do not touch the ground
*kill the target only
*do not get detected
*do not use projectiles
*do not call for backup
*complete mission in 45 seconds!

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 06:27 PM
Number of objectives to get full synch are going to increase if they follow the trend!
Only one objective was required to get full synch in brotherhood, maybe it's was same for revelations. But in ac3 you had like 3 objectives sometimes.
So its going to be like 4/5 in ac4 lol!

Here is a mission from ac4(speculating)
*take leap of faith from jackdaw
*only jump into hay carts
*do not touch the ground
*kill the target only
*do not get detected
*do not use projectiles
*do not call for backup
*complete mission in 45 seconds!

Botherhood and Revelations yes i could cope with and it was enjoyable but i felt AC3 was just suffocating and completely un enjoyable i think if they are going to include it then go back to the brotherhood system if not just do not bother full stop .

hoodrat94
03-21-2013, 06:30 PM
Botherhood and Revelations yes i could cope with and it was enjoyable but i felt AC3 was just suffocating and completely un enjoyable i think if they are going to include it then go back to the brotherhood system if not just do not bother full stop !

I know right! They are just so much in love with that crap! I didn't even bother! When there are objectives like do not get detected, and I do get detected, I turn on my "everyone dies mode!"

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 06:40 PM
I know right! They are just so much in love with that crap! I didn't even bother! When there are objectives like do not get detected, and I do get detected, I turn on my "everyone dies mode!"


Ok now agreed there should be some sort of challenge to the game and agreed that an Assassin should act like an Assassin as the creed preaches hide in plain site ect but some of the constraints are completely way off what Assassasins Creed is all about another that really gets up my nose is the sequence before the betryal were Haytham and Connor are fighting the red coats in New York and your have to use 2 guards as a human shield ? i find myself waiting for the yellow alert signals to appear before i can grab someone during which time by the time they have reloaded and not forgetting i have to defend myself in the meantime haytham has pretty much done the work for me which then i think whats the ****ing point !

hoodrat94
03-21-2013, 06:45 PM
Ok now agreed there should be some sort of challenge to the game and agreed that an Assassin should act like an Assassin as the creed preaches hide in plain site ect but some of the constraints are completely way off what Assassasins Creed is all about another that really gets up my nose is the sequence before the betryal were Haytham and Connor are fighting the red coats in New York and your have to use 2 guards as a human shield ? i find myself waiting for the yellow alert signals to appear before i can grab someone during which time by the time they have reloaded and not forgetting i have to defend myself in the meantime haytham has pretty much done the work for me which then i think whats the ****ing point !

As I said turn on your "f*** it everyone dies mode" in anger!

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 06:47 PM
As I said turn on your "f*** it everyone dies mode" in anger!

And here is me trying to respect the Assassins Creed lool !!

feclmunday
03-21-2013, 06:55 PM
I have 100% synced every game since ACI. (I was probably the worst to do with all that collection and no in game map)

I don't agree that III was the hardest at all. True Revelations side objectives were very, very easy. But Brotherhoods were much tougher (the war machine levels for example). What made ACIII easier was that it had a much better checkpoint save system than previous games so you could reload any failed attempts and try again more easily.. Difficult missions for me were the two naval missions were you had to hit ships' weak points, and the bunker hill non detection stealth section. Even that one wasn't so hard when you realised the trick that you could blow up the boat on the right in 20 secs without killing anyone if you just timed your rush to the powder store right, planted the bomb and then jumped off. I didn't find either of the fly as an eagle missions difficult and got both on 2nd or 3rd go, although the one in Tyranny was considerably tougher.

In terms of design these objectives are meant to restrict freedom, Your ancestor did the mission a certain way so you are rewarded for completing it the same "correct" way. I agree that a series of multiple playthrough paths (as long as you dont have to replay every mission 5 times in a forced way to increase the games longevity) animus glitch style might be better design.

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 07:08 PM
I have 100% synced every game since ACI. (I was probably the worst to do with all that collection and no in game map)

I don't agree that III was the hardest at all. True Revelations side objectives were very, very easy. But Brotherhoods were much tougher (the war machine levels for example). What made ACIII easier was that it had a much better checkpoint save system than previous games so you could reload any failed attempts and try again more easily.. Difficult missions for me were the two naval missions were you had to hit ships' weak points, and the bunker hill non detection stealth section. Even that one wasn't so hard when you realised the trick that you could blow up the boat on the right in 20 secs without killing anyone if you just timed your rush to the powder store right, planted the bomb and then jumped off. I didn't find either of the fly as an eagle missions difficult and got both on 2nd or 3rd go, although the one in Tyranny was considerably tougher.

In terms of design these objectives are meant to restrict freedom, Your ancestor did the mission a certain way so you are rewarded for completing it the same "correct" way. I agree that a series of multiple playthrough paths (as long as you dont have to replay every mission 5 times in a forced way to increase the games longevity) animus glitch style might be better design.

Thats interesting because i found ACB easier, but the point is the Mission constraints in AC3 made some parts less enjoyable.

andreja110s
03-21-2013, 07:11 PM
No, it has to stay. I like challenges :D

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 07:14 PM
I think that multiple conflicting sync objectives can only really work if they are all really doable. Otherwise, it's going to be way more frustrating than it is right now. Also, I agree, they need to fix the detection system.

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 07:19 PM
I think that multiple conflicting sync objectives can only really work if they are all really doable. Otherwise, it's going to be way more frustrating than it is right now. Also, I agree, they need to fix the detection system.

This is the thing if they are doeable ? but call me a purist if you may but i find sometimes to achive full sync you have to revert sloppy gameplay which i do like playing with a bit of style .

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 07:37 PM
This is the thing if they are doeable ? but call me a purist if you may but i find sometimes to achive full sync you have to revert sloppy gameplay which i do like playing with a bit of style .

Not sure what you mean. Example?

Gi1t
03-21-2013, 07:44 PM
Still seems like the biggest issue in general is the priority given to the objectives. The first thing that came up in Bortherhood when you completed any mission involving these objectives is the statement on whether you'd completed it with 100% or 50% sync. It implied that this was the primary judgement on performance, either 100% or FAILED. It's easy to say things like 'you don't have to look at it' but think about it; it's an inherent trait to want the game to recognize your talent on some level even if the results don't matter to you. You pretty much always check your score whether you care or not, and FAILED is a pretty strong judgement to throw in someone's face.It grabs the player's attention and conflicts with their own sense of how they did, which is never good for a rating system. I mean, they jsut finished the mission, how is that a failure overall? I thnk they'd reduce a lot of whining if they'd just drop that one word. All that's really necessary is the percentage and that's totally innoocuous to someone who doesn't give a ****. It's about the simplest fix you could ask for. XD

That aside, the only thing they can do is to try to make the optional objectives fun and I suspect that, based on what people have been saying about the objectives they don't like, they probably have not been play-testing them. It seems more like they just pick something that's physically possible and seems like it'd fit and don't really test to see if it's fun to do. A real challenge is still fun even if it's very hard. Don't succumb to the misconception that challenges are just supposed to be annoying and tiresome. They're supposed to be intense. :D

MasterAssasin84
03-21-2013, 07:46 PM
Not sure what you mean. Example?

Ok for example i am going to use the battle of bunker hill - getting on the ships undetected was a real *** of constraint which literaly involved me running on their like Japenese Kamakazi whilst the guards backs are turned then setting the fuse on a the poweder kegs then jumping back into the water which in my eyes is very sloppy gameplay and does not really involve any tactical gameplay .

When i say style i am going to revert back to the sequence were haytham had retrive a map from the British fort and destroy the cannons that could be done with stylish gameplay going from hiding spot to hiding spot and using non lethal take downs .

XanderXVI
03-21-2013, 08:32 PM
I also have managed to achieve 100% sync for every AC title and enjoy the challenge. It is optional but due to my OCD- not really! My wife however does not share that same need to complete. She also has played every AC title and has no problem finishing a memory without meeting the optional requirements if they proved to be too vexing. It does not diminish the experience for her.

That being said, I believe the games would be too easy without them. There is no question that trying to discover the perfect strategy to meet THAT objective, or hand/eye coordination to complete a time or obstacle challenge adds hours to my game play. I know too many gamers that blow through a title like AC3 in 4-5 hours and move on to the next new release. We both appreciate the attention to detail and subtle variables incorporated into the game. On many occasions we have BOTH achieved 100% sync on a misssion using DIFFERENT methods, so I don't subscribe to the idea of the Red Notification meaning you are doing it wrong. I appreciate the immediate notification when I am focusing on a 100% sync. It allows an immediate checkpoint restart without the wasted time of finding out the objective was missed at the end.

In closing, it is my opinion that AC3 was the easiest to complete 100% sync of all the titles. From a marketing perspective, it is clear the game was meant to reach new gamers in the States and the challenges were toned down accordingly- at least in comparison to the previous titles. In our view we hope that the AC series continues to be challenging in single player, and doesn't start to pander to fast and easy solutions. God only knows there are enough games out there to blast through without having to think at all.

nitres15
03-21-2013, 08:35 PM
i wish you could turn the full sunc off

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 08:43 PM
Ok for example i am going to use the battle of bunker hill - getting on the ships undetected was a real *** of constraint which literaly involved me running on their like Japenese Kamakazi whilst the guards backs are turned then setting the fuse on a the poweder kegs then jumping back into the water which in my eyes is very sloppy gameplay and does not really involve any tactical gameplay .

Not the fault of the sync requirements themselves, but actually the fault of the poorly designed detection system. Seriously, who the hell have they got play-testing these games? People with no notion of stylish play whatsoever I imagine. I'v just gone and replayed this mission to give an example of why the detection system is complete garbage and therefore rendering stealth even more useless.

-On the ship there are 8 guards in total. 2 of those guards are patrolling the deck - one at the bow of the ship and the second circling the deck. I move to a position where I'm hanging over the side of the ship and all the guards have their backs to me. Bear in mind that these ships are Constantly firing cannon shots that are VERY loud and annoying, especially if this is a mission you intend to take your time on. Okay, so the second guard I mentioned finally circles round to the point where I ledge-assassinate him off the side and into the water - BUT, before he even hits the water 5 of the other guards rush to see what's happened, all who previously had their backs to me, all who prematurely heard a splash of water amidst the relentless cannon fire. So I drop down and shimmy my way to a part of the ship I don't want to be at until these guards return to their positions.

My plan now is to take out the 2 guards closest to the one patrolling the bow. I wait until the 1 guard is behind some high stacked boxes thinking this will conceal my kills. So I approach the 2 guards, perform 2 silent kills while keeping my camera focused on the 1 patrolling guard who is clearly behind the boxes at this point but for some twist of fate this superhuman guard sees through the boxes and alerts me to everyone.

For me the most stylish and enjoyable way to dispatch a group of guards Is to remain undetected using only silent-kills with my hidden blades. So if anyone knows the strategy to doing this (in this part of the mission), please tell us how.

pacmanate
03-21-2013, 08:52 PM
Not this again. Im just going to say this again.

Have 2 ways to have 100%. First way the normal constraints, like 2 - 3 objectives. The second way would be stealth, don't get seen at all to also get 100%.

BigTrevor94
03-21-2013, 09:12 PM
i wish you could turn the full sunc off

In a sense, this would be the better of the ideas. There should be a difficulty or something there of added for people who don't like all of the challenges and such, let me give you a example. 3 difficulties Easy, Pro and Extreme. Easy is for people who want only to play the story mode nothing else, just play the story as it is. Pro is the story with the added challenges and sync for people who want the story aspect but with a added kick. And lastly Extreme is for the most hardcore experience. Extreme is for people who still like the story but care more about the challenges and as such the challenges are harder then Pro. I think this would be a great addition I think and would appease those who want the challenge and those who don't :)

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 09:17 PM
You can't add difficulty settings or different methods of sync to a fundamentally broken system and expect it to be any better.

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 09:23 PM
Ok for example i am going to use the battle of bunker hill - getting on the ships undetected was a real *** of constraint which literaly involved me running on their like Japenese Kamakazi whilst the guards backs are turned then setting the fuse on a the poweder kegs then jumping back into the water which in my eyes is very sloppy gameplay and does not really involve any tactical gameplay .

When i say style i am going to revert back to the sequence were haytham had retrive a map from the British fort and destroy the cannons that could be done with stylish gameplay going from hiding spot to hiding spot and using non lethal take downs .

Snipe them from the rigging. Works. Honestly, this is still one of the hardest constraints in the game, but it's still fun for me.

I also think that the annoying thing about full sync isn't how hard they are as much as how it restricts your play style.

nitres15
03-21-2013, 09:23 PM
In a sense, this would be the better of the ideas. There should be a difficulty or something there of added for people who don't like all of the challenges and such, let me give you a example. 3 difficulties Easy, Pro and Extreme. Easy is for people who want only to play the story mode nothing else, just play the story as it is. Pro is the story with the added challenges and sync for people who want the story aspect but with a added kick. And lastly Extreme is for the most hardcore experience. Extreme is for people who still like the story but care more about the challenges and as such the challenges are harder then Pro. I think this would be a great addition I think and would appease those who want the challenge and those who don't :)
i just wanna play through a mission the way i wanted to without feeling like missed something. There should be a new game plus mode where the full-sync stuff is activated.

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 09:38 PM
In a sense, this would be the better of the ideas. There should be a difficulty or something there of added for people who don't like all of the challenges and such, let me give you a example. 3 difficulties Easy, Pro and Extreme. Easy is for people who want only to play the story mode nothing else, just play the story as it is. Pro is the story with the added challenges and sync for people who want the story aspect but with a added kick. And lastly Extreme is for the most hardcore experience. Extreme is for people who still like the story but care more about the challenges and as such the challenges are harder then Pro. I think this would be a great addition I think and would appease those who want the challenge and those who don't :)

They've got to fix the system, but the difficulty would really work. Even better, I think would be if the full sync program were part of a new game+ concept, so that you play it once, but on replay, you're encouraged to complete full sync.

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 09:44 PM
Snipe them from the rigging. Works. Honestly, this is still one of the hardest constraints in the game, but it's still fun for me.

I honestly think the constraint is piss easy. You can easily light the fuses without even killing anyone. But that mission is a fine example of a broken detection/stealth system and very poor mission design that doesn't allow for different playstyles.

Bastiaen
03-21-2013, 09:48 PM
Why aren't we all working at Ubisoft?

ArabianFrost
03-21-2013, 10:36 PM
They add replay value to the game, with special unlocks as an incentive to do so. Why are you so upset about them?

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 10:40 PM
They add replay value to the game, with special unlocks as an incentive to do so. Why are you so upset about them?

It's not ok to add broke s*** to the game just because we get unlocks. It makes any longevity/difficulty/replay value all artificial when the feature by design is down right flawed.

Turul.
03-21-2013, 10:44 PM
they really need to limit it.

ac3 had so many on some of the missions that i just got plain annoying.

really arbitrary at times.

especially not detecting anyone on the boats before blowing them up.

like who cares if anyone sees you, the boat is going to blow up anyways!

ArabianFrost
03-21-2013, 10:55 PM
It's not ok to add broke s*** to the game just because we get unlocks. It makes any longevity/difficulty/replay value all artificial when the feature by design is down right flawed.

Never said they were any good, but they aren't bad enough to be completely removed from the game. If they start to make more logical and achievable side-objectives, then why remove them as the OP suggests? To some extent they gave me this great sense of achievement when I successfully abide by the rules of the side objectives, as long as they were sensible of course. Also, replay value, cause it gives me at least a slight reason to jump back to the game.

UrDeviant1
03-21-2013, 10:58 PM
Never said they were any good, but they aren't bad enough to be completely removed from the game. If they start to make more logical and achievable side-objectives, then why remove them as the OP suggests?

I do agree that they shouldn't be removed. Like I'v said above I don't think they're the problem.

LoyalACFan
03-21-2013, 11:05 PM
They add replay value to the game, with special unlocks as an incentive to do so. Why are you so upset about them?

Special unlocks? Wut? They haven't unlocked anything but trophies since ACB's Cristina missions.

But no, I don't think they should go completely. They just need to be revamped. AC3 had some good ones that were actually somewhat of a challenge (kill the captain on the prison boat, limit the damage to the Belladonna, etc.) but also some horrible ones that forced you to play the mission on one set path (i.e. don't hide in the hay cart, WTF?). The constraints shouldn't do that. And they should reward you with something significant, like the Cristina missions.

ArabianFrost
03-21-2013, 11:08 PM
Special unlocks? Wut? They haven't unlocked anything but trophies since ACB's Cristina missions.

But no, I don't think they should go completely. They just need to be revamped. AC3 had some good ones that were actually somewhat of a challenge (kill the captain on the prison boat, limit the damage to the Belladonna, etc.) but also some horrible ones that forced you to play the mission on one set path (i.e. don't hide in the hay cart, WTF?). The constraints shouldn't do that. And they should reward you with something significant, like the Cristina missions.

I remember in ACR that they unlocked special costumes with each level of synchronisation (?). In AC3 they have an unlockable Alta´r costume in exchange for 100% synch. Not the most valuable rewards, but rewards nonetheless.

LoyalACFan
03-21-2013, 11:11 PM
I remember in ACR that they unlocked special costumes with each level of synchronisation (?).

Oh yeah... You got Altair's nursing home robes for full-synching Sequence 8(?). And the cheats that I completely forgot existed. That's how memorable they were.

ArabianFrost
03-21-2013, 11:13 PM
Oh yeah... You got Altair's nursing home robes for full-synching Sequence 8(?). And the cheats that I completely forgot existed. That's how memorable they were.

I like costumes.

SixKeys
03-21-2013, 11:17 PM
When I first heard about there being a checkpoint system for full synch in AC3, I thought it was a good idea. In practice, however, I found it to be really annoying and immersion-breaking. If you're going for 100% synch with 3 objectives and keep failing the last one, it really breaks the immersion to keep "rewinding" back to the last checkpoint.

IMO they shouldn't have gone for multiple synch objectives in each mission. Brotherhood's system may not have been perfect, but 1 proper challenge (like "don't get detected") is better than 3 stupid ones ("locate the target within 38 seconds").

Sushiglutton
03-21-2013, 11:59 PM
I have nothing against full synch in principal, it's just that it was used for even more hand-holding/restrictions in a game that had way too much of that to begin with. It's like whenever there was a little room to maneuver they plugged that leak by adding a full-synch objective. I think the idea of having optional objectives to make the game potentially more difficult is fine. The execution, not so much.

LoyalACFan
03-22-2013, 12:02 AM
I like costumes.

I do too. I just like good ones :p Altair's old man robe was designed for him to wear while hobbling along and looking like a sage, and it worked. Sprinting around Constantinople in it... Not so much.

ArabianFrost
03-22-2013, 12:11 AM
I have nothing against full synch in principal, it's just that it was used for even more hand-holding/restrictions in a game that had way too much of that to begin with. It's like whenever there was a little room to maneuver they plugged that leak by adding a full-synch objective. I think the idea of having optional objectives to make the game potentially more difficult is fine. The execution, not so much.

Agreed. I would have preferred that they do this in-mission side objectives, similarly to how Dishonored did it. For example, if we have to assassinate target X, then there should be an objective to assassinate X's assistant, while saving the life of character Y, who is related to one of your assassin fellows, with special rewards given for completing these fun, yet non-linear side objectives
With AC games, they seem to have just lazied out and shoved some random illogical crap, that would keep those trophy hunters coming for more.

ArabianFrost
03-22-2013, 12:14 AM
I do too. I just like good ones :p Altair's old man robe was designed for him to wear while hobbling along and looking like a sage, and it worked. Sprinting around Constantinople in it... Not so much.

I also like unlocking, so it doesn't matter. However, I must say that, generally, robes in ACR were just to brightly coloured and exotic for my taste, so none of them really worked for me much, which is why I don't mind these weird big robes.

Sushiglutton
03-22-2013, 12:16 AM
Agreed. I would have preferred that they do this in-mission side objectives, similarly to how Dishonored did it. For example, if we have to assassinate target X, then there should be an objective to assassinate X's assistant, while saving the life of character Y, who is related to one of your assassin fellows, with special rewards given for completing these fun, yet non-linear side objectives
With AC games, they seem to have just lazied out and shoved some random illogical crap, that would keep those trophy hunters coming for more.

Yeah that would have been much better. There were a couple of missions like that (assassinate the ship captain for example), but for the most part they were more like "use technique X!".

LoyalACFan
03-22-2013, 12:17 AM
I also like unlocking, so it doesn't matter. However, I must say that, generally, robes in ACR were just to brightly coloured and exotic for my taste, so none of them really worked for me much, which is why I don't mind these weird big robes.

Eh, well, I got snookered into buying The Lost Archive, so I got Altair's normal robes as well. That's what I use most of the time, either that or the default grey ones with Azap armor.

Anyway, the point we should take away from this is that full sync needs to unlock significant stuff.

ArabianFrost
03-22-2013, 12:23 AM
Eh, well, I got snookered into buying The Lost Archive, so I got Altair's normal robes as well. That's what I use most of the time, either that or the default grey ones with Azap armor.

Anyway, the point we should take away from this is that full sync needs to unlock significant stuff.

Ubisoft doesn't do that, because they'd rather just shove sort-of significant stuff like weapons and missions to pre-order bonuses. I can only hope that they do it properly, since AC4 devs said that they are dumping anything that's unnecessary and feels out of place.

LoyalACFan
03-22-2013, 01:45 AM
Ubisoft doesn't do that, because they'd rather just shove sort-of significant stuff like weapons and missions to pre-order bonuses.

Unfortunately, that's a blanket statement that could apply to the entire industry... Preorder bonuses have killed and buried unlockables.

D.I.D.
03-22-2013, 02:06 AM
I agree with you in some parts. I enjoy the challenge of like not taking any damage or whatnot but yes I too HATE the stealth challenges because I mean come on we are ASSASSINS just run over there get the plans burn them and stab people along the way. Anyways I think it they modified the stealth aspect it might be better but I think doing away with the whole this would get rid of a air of a challenge which people like me like :)

Those "burn the plans" requirements were the level, not for Full Sync, and I loved those. Without them - f you could run over, kill anyone in your way, and burn the plans - where would the gameplay be? This series has grown to forget that its one unarguably positive gameplay element is movement, and avoiding lines of sight through elevated paths. It's certainly not the combat, not even in AC3, where you can load rope dart to Y and then literally just keep blocking when you see an attack animation beginning and (when nobody is attacking) squidge your thumb over the other three buttons until everyone is dead. Even if you don't do that and play it properly, you're still abstractly hitting buttons only to watch your character do some cool unrelated thing in a miniature cutscene, whereas I miss AC1's desperate fleeing after a kill. When I had to run from dozens of guards, every movement I made was under my agency, and I could honestly say "I did that, and I did it well". It was also exciting, which combat never is.

If anything, I think they ought to make virtually all of the game involve that kind of play, so that you are constantly refining your ability to spot an unwatched safe point and utilise line of sight to your advantage, while occasionally giving you little oases of unabashed slaughter.

tinrisky
03-22-2013, 02:42 AM
I loved avoiding obstacles as the eagle, I kept failing but was so close! Adrenaline was pump'n! I got full sync allt the way for TOKW and Main Game.

Dtanobo
03-22-2013, 04:51 AM
I completely agree but I also would like the replay value so what if there was a story mode that just disabled all the 100% sync idea and it wouldn't ruin getting 100% game completion but you can chose to do the story with full sync requirements and you can 100% that to get the Platinum game trophy or all the achievements. Would be too much work so I doubt the developers would do that but the requirements just make me feel like I fail even when I complete the mission how I want to. The red writing is like a big screw you to freedom of approaching a mission uniquely and individually.

Gi1t
03-22-2013, 05:37 AM
I completely agree but I also would like the replay value so what if there was a story mode that just disabled all the 100% sync idea and it wouldn't ruin getting 100% game completion but you can chose to do the story with full sync requirements and you can 100% that to get the Platinum game trophy or all the achievements. Would be too much work so I doubt the developers would do that but the requirements just make me feel like I fail even when I complete the mission how I want to. The red writing is like a big screw you to freedom of approaching a mission uniquely and individually.

Exactly, "FAILED" is the first thing you see when you finish in Brotherhood, and that feels like it just comes out of nowhere. I think it's the word that need to go, really; more than the color. :)

feclmunday
03-22-2013, 07:26 PM
i wish you could turn the full sunc off

You can, ignore it.

There is no benefit for getting 100% sync on a mission or the entire game other than a couple of achievements. If you don't like it don't do it.

Just Krispy
03-22-2013, 07:49 PM
I agree...full synch totally blows...c'mon...steal a horse without being detected? In a Citadel?

Assassin_M
03-22-2013, 07:53 PM
I agree...full synch totally blows...c'mon...steal a horse without being detected? In a Citadel?
was pretty damm easy when you have the ability to turn invisible in a whim...

BATISTABUS
03-22-2013, 07:58 PM
was pretty damm easy when you have the ability to turn invisible in a whim...
Plus you don't have to get the horse out of there without being detected...you just have to mount it. Hell, that should've been a mandatory requirement.

Assassin_M
03-22-2013, 08:01 PM
Plus you don't have to get the horse out of there without being detected...you just have to mount it. Hell, that should've been a mandatory requirement.
I`m absolutely convinced...like the female main game protagonist.. Actual challenge will be given the Altair treatment

Sushiglutton
03-22-2013, 08:17 PM
I agree...full synch totally blows...c'mon...steal a horse without being detected? In a Citadel?

Hang on a second! Are there more mandatory horse missions in the DLC :|. Oh mercy, the devs are still lost in space it seems :|.

Assassin_M
03-22-2013, 08:19 PM
Hang on a second! Are there more mandatory horse missions in the DLC :|. Oh mercy, the devs are still lost in space it seems :|.
It`s not really that bad...you just have to run with out of a citadel then to Benji and that`s like less than 30 seconds...

BATISTABUS
03-22-2013, 08:22 PM
Hang on a second! Are there more mandatory horse missions in the DLC :|. Oh mercy, the devs are still lost in space it seems :|.
No, this one's very different. It's an infiltration (that allows you to be detected) followed by an Eagle Flight chase. I thought it was a pretty fun, especially compared to the normal chase missions.

Sushiglutton
03-22-2013, 08:22 PM
It`s not really that bad...you just have to run with out of a citadel then to Benji and that`s like less than 30 seconds...

Oh mercy, that's ok then :p


No, this one's very different. It's an infiltration (that allows you to be detected) followed by an Eagle Flight chase. I thought it was a pretty fun, especially compared to the normal chase missions.

Good to hear, I thought they had completely lost it (or that I would).