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View Full Version : Did Washington know about the assassin-Templar war?



lothario-da-be
03-18-2013, 08:50 PM
In the game Connor says to Achillis that he will tell everything to George to kill Charles Lee. George asks him later "Why do you help us?" and Connor says he has hes own reasons. Did he never told G about the war then?

LoyalACFan
03-18-2013, 08:53 PM
No. Pretty sure they had their little falling-out before he had the chance to tell him. He probably found out eventually; at least the basics, anyway. We might learn more in the Tyranny finale.

lothario-da-be
03-18-2013, 08:53 PM
Most likely

Eternal Reward
03-18-2013, 09:03 PM
I feel like in the ToKW he knows, or will know, but other than that I kinda doubt it.

Assassin_M
03-18-2013, 10:11 PM
Just shows how much more into the Assassin rules Connor is more than Ezio...

no one comes close to Altair, though...

Abeonis
03-18-2013, 10:16 PM
I see nothing to suggest he does know of the war. It is possible that, if the Freemasons are expanded upon to be an organisation similar in nature to the Assassins and Templars, he might have known and/or found out through that avenue, but I'd be surprised.

poptartz20
03-18-2013, 10:18 PM
I see nothing to suggest he does know if the war. It is possible that, if the Freemasons are expanded upon to be an organisation similar in nature to the Assassins and Templars, he might have known and/or found out through that avenue, but I'd be surprised.

I thought the same thing! All I know is that Washington was a red headed freemason... now if that extended into one of the groups I don't know. But I think it's safe to say he might have assumptions considering the fact, but I don't think he really knows.

HeedfulMass4856
03-18-2013, 10:21 PM
I think he knows in TOKW; in fact, he may be the reason Haytham is dead. He probably saw the Templars as a threat, and quickly eradicated them... but I doubt this... because how would he have known about the war... unless Connor told him sometime after the war.

HeedfulMass4856
03-18-2013, 10:23 PM
I see nothing to suggest he does know of the war. It is possible that, if the Freemasons are expanded upon to be an organisation similar in nature to the Assassins and Templars, he might have known and/or found out through that avenue, but I'd be surprised.
That actually wouldn't be bad.

Will_Lucky
03-19-2013, 12:10 AM
I think he knows in TOKW; in fact, he may be the reason Haytham is dead. He probably saw the Templars as a threat, and quickly eradicated them... but I doubt this... because how would he have known about the war... unless Connor told him sometime after the war.

Could be the opposite, Haytham may have been the head of the Assassins in TOWK.

I doubt Washington knew to be honest, Connor didn't tell him after Achilles advised him not to considering his personality and position.

LoyalACFan
03-19-2013, 01:06 AM
Just shows how much more into the Assassin rules Connor is more than Ezio...

no one comes close to Altair, though...

Aw, come on, he had every intention of telling him, he just never got around to it :p Remember his little meltdown with Achilles at the beginning of Sequence 9?

Assassin_M
03-19-2013, 01:17 AM
Aw, come on, he had every intention of telling him, he just never got around to it :p Remember his little meltdown with Achilles at the beginning of Sequence 9?
Who did he listen to in the end ? That`s right. Achilles:rolleyes: That`s the good thing about it....he may thrown a truff about it at first, but he sees that his mentor is right..

He may have had intentions...he was 23, he was intense and thought differently, but he ends up evaporating his intensity and listening to the wiser mentor..

Abeonis
03-19-2013, 01:50 AM
Could be the opposite, Haytham may have been the head of the Assassins in TOWK.

I doubt Washington knew to be honest, Connor didn't tell him after Achilles advised him not to considering his personality and position.

I doubt it. Personally, I get the feel that this 'dream' of Connor's is depicting what might have happened had Ratonhnhaké:ton continued on his "present course" that Juno spoke about. Remember, Juno said that Ratonhnhaké:ton's failure to join the Assassins would result in the Templars' gaining "premature access to the Temple", most likely through use of the Apple that has now found it's way into Washington's hands.

We, with the benefit of hindsight, now know that things might have been better had the Templars' gained access in the late 18th Century, as there would have been time to both avert the Second Catastrophe and avoid freeing Juno in the process (of course, this isn't the sort of thing Juno was like to inform Ratonhnhaké:ton of.) Early US history might have been a little rougher, but in the long run the world would be a safer place.

itsamea-mario
03-19-2013, 01:58 AM
No because George Washington was a tool and didn't know anything.

poptartz20
03-19-2013, 02:01 AM
I can't help but think that Haytham is alive... I know Ziio said otherwise but how else would he have died? That is completely unexplained. Oh well.

I-Like-Pie45
03-19-2013, 02:15 AM
I can't help but think that Haytham is alive... I know Ziio said otherwise but how else would he have died? That is completely unexplained. Oh well.

GW killed him by burying him in a pile of tacos before beating his brains out with a shovel.

Dosenwabe
03-19-2013, 02:32 AM
In his notebook he sounds like he knows it...

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:14 AM
Just shows how much more into the Assassin rules Connor is more than Ezio...

no one comes close to Altair, though...

Where does it say "Don't tell anyone about the Templar/Assassin War?"

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:15 AM
gw killed him by burying him in a pile of tacos before beating his brains out with a shovel.

this!

Assassin_M
03-19-2013, 03:26 AM
Where does it say "Don't tell anyone about the Templar/Assassin War?"
Never compromise the brotherhood...

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:29 AM
Never compromise the brotherhood...

And.....did Ezio compromise them by saying that?

Different times sir, different times.

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:30 AM
Who did he listen to in the end ? That`s right. Achilles:rolleyes: That`s the good thing about it....he may thrown a truff about it at first, but he sees that his mentor is right..

He may have had intentions...he was 23, he was intense and thought differently, but he ends up evaporating his intensity and listening to the wiser mentor..

Actually it was because Washington pissed him off, he never actually really admitted Achilles was right, even after he was totally right.

Assassin_M
03-19-2013, 03:32 AM
And.....did Ezio compromise them by saying that?

Different times sir, different times.
It`s a risk exposing the brotherhood and their actions...Indeed...the brotherhood was not compromised (Well....the entirety of Monterrigionni was decimated and the Assassin mentor killed, because of Ezio....but that`s not the point), but there`s still the risk of harm coming unto the brotherhood because you exposed their actions and their nature...

Secrecy has no age...Altair made a point by transforming the Assassins into a shadow organization..

monster_rambo
03-19-2013, 03:33 AM
GW killed him by burying him in a pile of tacos before beating his brains out with a shovel.

I expected no less from you Patrick Bateman.

Assassin_M
03-19-2013, 03:34 AM
Actually it was because Washington pissed him off, he never actually really admitted Achilles was right, even after he was totally right.
Really ? When did GW piss him off at Valley forge ? Connor intended to tell him at Congress AND Valley forge...GW hadn't piss him off yet and I think you missed the part where Connor apologized when he returns from New York after working with Haytham...

Did you play the game ?

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:36 AM
Really ? When did GW piss him off at Valley forge ? Connor intended to tell him at Congress AND Valley forge...GW hadn't piss him off yet and I think you missed the part where Connor apologized when he returns from New York after working with Haytham...

Did you play the game ?

I did, but he didn't tell him not because he saw Achilles reasoning, but because people pissed him off.

I can't remember the exact series of events, but was it Haytham?

And I remember the scene were he "reconciles" ended with Connor yelling at Achilles again...

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:39 AM
It`s a risk exposing the brotherhood and their actions...Indeed...the brotherhood was not compromised (Well....the entirety of Monterrigionni was decimated and the Assassin mentor killed, because of Ezio....but that`s not the point), but there`s still the risk of harm coming unto the brotherhood because you exposed their actions and their nature...

Secrecy has no age...Altair made a point by transforming the Assassins into a shadow organization..

It seemed to work for Ezio.

Not like he could do much in Constantinople anyways, what with those Dens all but having a minstrel singing Assassin campfire songs.

Secrecy is necessary sometimes, and sometimes is not. In Connors time it made sense, since the Templars outnumbered them, and the people weren't the same as in the previous titles.

But for Ezio, people already knew most the time.

Assassin_M
03-19-2013, 03:41 AM
I did, but he didn't tell him not because he saw Achilles reasoning, but because people pissed him off.

I can't remember the exact series of events, but was it Haytham?

And I remember the scene were he "reconciles" ended with Connor yelling at Achilles again...
What people pissed him off ?? Connor wanted to tell GW long before meeting Haytham and being pissed off at the Patriots AT ALL...

For god`s sake play the game again, Connor only argues with Achilles twice...after killing Pitcairn and after escaping his execution, I`m talking about the one after he escapes from his execution...he returns and apologizes...he never argues with him again after that and if you`re referring to Connor`s suggestion that Assassins and templars work together, that was hardly an argument...Connor made a suggestion, Achilles asked him some questions and showed uncertainty then they both left on good terms for Connor to try and reason with Haytham...

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:43 AM
Maybe I just have bad memories of the incident because I was annoyed with Connor for not listening to Achilles or something.

I do need to replay it though...

Assassin_M
03-19-2013, 03:43 AM
It seemed to work for Ezio.

Not like he could do much in Constantinople anyways, what with those Dens all but having a minstrel singing Assassin campfire songs.

Secrecy is necessary sometimes, and sometimes is not. In Connors time it made sense, since the Templars outnumbered them, and the people weren't the same as in the previous titles.

But for Ezio, people already knew most the time.
how does it makes sense ?? The writers made the Assassins and Templars go underground for a Historical accuracy reason, because they both disbanded around the 13th century...with Ezio, they had gang wars and EVERYONE knew about them...what the hell ?? no one in history recorded ANYTHING about "the activities of the Assassin brotherhood" ?? come now...it was ridiculously stupid

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 03:48 AM
how does it makes sense ?? The writers made the Assassins and Templars go underground for a Historical accuracy reason, because they both disbanded around the 13th century...with Ezio, they had gang wars and EVERYONE knew about them...what the hell ?? no one in history recorded ANYTHING about "the activities of the Assassin brotherhood" ?? come now...it was ridiculously stupid

I thought Ezio bribed some historians of the time?

Anyways, screw historical accuracy, why didn't Washington, or any of the founding fathers for that matter, mention the strangely dressed Indian dude that basically did everything?

I mean, Connor was barely underground, more so aboveground without telling anyone why, and can you honestly tell me the Constantinople Assassins were "underground"?

Assassin_M
03-19-2013, 03:53 AM
I thought Ezio bribed some historians of the time?

Anyways, screw historical accuracy, why didn't Washington, or any of the founding fathers for that matter, mention the strangely dressed Indian dude that basically did everything?

I mean, Connor was barely underground, more so aboveground without telling anyone why, and can you honestly tell me the Constantinople Assassins were "underground"?
Yes, Ezio bribed SOME Historians, but they had gang wars..GW and the founding fathers, well that can be explained by them screwing Connor and taking all the credit for themselves...they already screwed him once...they could`v done it again..

Connor was way more underground than Ezio...at least, during his tenure, no one mentioned the Assassins or Templars except the Templars and Assassins..

The Constantinople Assassins should`v been underground. That`s my whole point

Megas_Doux
03-19-2013, 04:41 AM
Rome,1503
A group of people commanded by an strange hooded fellow is heard shouting "Vittoria agli assassini" in the middle of the city. Very subtle.......

LoyalACFan
03-19-2013, 05:14 AM
Yes, Ezio bribed SOME Historians, but they had gang wars..GW and the founding fathers, well that can be explained by them screwing Connor and taking all the credit for themselves...they already screwed him once...they could`v done it again..

Connor was way more underground than Ezio...at least, during his tenure, no one mentioned the Assassins or Templars except the Templars and Assassins..

The Constantinople Assassins should`v been underground. That`s my whole point

Agreed. That was my biggest complaint with the Ezio spinoffs. Especially Revelations, with all the bombcrafting stations, ziplines, and the whole Den Defense debacle. The Byzantines were rolling friggin' tanks down the street, the Assassins had Greek Fire cannons, and nobody seemed to remember that? Dafuq?

Mae5tro975
03-19-2013, 02:36 PM
I doubt it. Personally, I get the feel that this 'dream' of Connor's is depicting what might have happened had Ratonhnhaké:ton continued on his "present course" that Juno spoke about. Remember, Juno said that Ratonhnhaké:ton's failure to join the Assassins would result in the Templars' gaining "premature access to the Temple", most likely through use of the Apple that has now found it's way into Washington's hands.

We, with the benefit of hindsight, now know that things might have been better had the Templars' gained access in the late 18th Century, as there would have been time to both avert the Second Catastrophe and avoid freeing Juno in the process (of course, this isn't the sort of thing Juno was like to inform Ratonhnhaké:ton of.) Early US history might have been a little rougher, but in the long run the world would be a safer place.

This. The same could be said if the Precursor Vault opened for Rodrigo Borgia, or if Prince Ahmet found the Grand Temple (though I doubt he could've made the trip to New York in that time period).


Who did he listen to in the end ? That`s right. Achilles That`s the good thing about it....he may thrown a truff about it at first, but he sees that his mentor is right.
Achilles had specifically warned him about Washington becoming distracted and losing his focus if he learned about the Assassin/Templar conflict. When Connor meets Washington in Valley Forge, Washington is clearly distracted by Dr. Church's theft of the supplies, he even says "Pardon me, I've been a little distracted." I think it is at this point that Connor realizes that Achilles is right.

So I figure in answer to the OP's question: In TOKW, probably. In regular continuity, no.

There is still the issue of the Apple though, unless Clay was reading too much into that image. Who knows, though, maybe the Freemasons are connected to the Hermetecists, and eventually become a third party later on, until they are eventually absorbed into the Templars by the "secret chiefs."

EDIT: I recall Shaun and Rebecca talking about Washington and the Apple, but I can't remember what Shaun says about it.

Jexx21
03-19-2013, 08:07 PM
I doubt it. Personally, I get the feel that this 'dream' of Connor's is depicting what might have happened had Ratonhnhaké:ton continued on his "present course" that Juno spoke about. Remember, Juno said that Ratonhnhaké:ton's failure to join the Assassins would result in the Templars' gaining "premature access to the Temple", most likely through use of the Apple that has now found it's way into Washington's hands.

We, with the benefit of hindsight, now know that things might have been better had the Templars' gained access in the late 18th Century, as there would have been time to both avert the Second Catastrophe and avoid freeing Juno in the process (of course, this isn't the sort of thing Juno was like to inform Ratonhnhaké:ton of.) Early US history might have been a little rougher, but in the long run the world would be a safer place.
Then Ziio should still be dead when Connor wakes up.

No, I think it's completely possible that Haytham was actually an Assassin leader in this alternate timeline.

Eternal Reward
03-19-2013, 08:52 PM
Then Ziio should still be dead when Connor wakes up.

No, I think it's completely possible that Haytham was actually an Assassin leader in this alternate timeline.

Why?

All we know about this timeline is that Connor didn't become an Assassin, for whatever reason. There is no reason to suggest that Edward didn't die, and Haytham became a Assassin.

Jexx21
03-19-2013, 09:12 PM
We also know that Ziio survived way before Juno ever delivered the message to Connor telling him to join the Assassins.

We don't know why she survived however... Why do I think it's possible that Haytham could of been an Assassin leader in this timeline? There is no evidence to the contrary.