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blairgowrie
04-25-2004, 03:53 PM
I flew with my Seattle mates on Friday night. We dog fought for an hour and then did coops for 3 hours. During the whole evening, I only managed to shoot down a few Storches in a Spit. Probably my worst episode of shooting skills ever! It seemed as though whenever I got close to my opponent (within .40), the nose of my aircraft wandered off target and many times I couldn't get a shot away.

I spent a couple of hours today practising off-line in arcade mode and found that I was flying with the twist control of my MSFFB2 not centred. I was gripping the joystick too tightly and didn't notice the rudder skid.

That got me thinking about rudder pedals. Would that help my tendency to grip the stick too hard with too much rudder? Also, would I be able to run the MSFFB2 stick with say a set of CH pedals? Would be nice to have toe brakes as well.

Just mentioned my thinking about the pedals to my dear wife. "Oh God no" she said. I wonder what she meant!

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

blairgowrie
04-25-2004, 03:53 PM
I flew with my Seattle mates on Friday night. We dog fought for an hour and then did coops for 3 hours. During the whole evening, I only managed to shoot down a few Storches in a Spit. Probably my worst episode of shooting skills ever! It seemed as though whenever I got close to my opponent (within .40), the nose of my aircraft wandered off target and many times I couldn't get a shot away.

I spent a couple of hours today practising off-line in arcade mode and found that I was flying with the twist control of my MSFFB2 not centred. I was gripping the joystick too tightly and didn't notice the rudder skid.

That got me thinking about rudder pedals. Would that help my tendency to grip the stick too hard with too much rudder? Also, would I be able to run the MSFFB2 stick with say a set of CH pedals? Would be nice to have toe brakes as well.

Just mentioned my thinking about the pedals to my dear wife. "Oh God no" she said. I wonder what she meant!

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

carguy_
04-25-2004, 04:09 PM
This is quite funny.I have twist handle and got used to it in 10minutes whereas some guys can`t make it right for days,even weeks.You have too much of unstable hands imo.Get new ones hehe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Yosumi
04-25-2004, 04:17 PM
I have this same problem, so I swithched the rudder controls back to the keyboard. Its the only solution for me since the spring on my joystick is so weak and I dont wanna pay for rudder pedals

blairgowrie
04-25-2004, 04:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
This is quite funny.I have twist handle and got used to it in 10minutes whereas some guys can`t make it right for days,even weeks.You have too much of unstable hands imo.Get new ones hehe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite the advice I was looking for but if you found it funny then I have accomplished something........ IMHO.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

LEBillfish
04-25-2004, 05:01 PM
Frankly, I rarely use rudder except when either trying to get on, or get away from an opponent in a tough dogfight....To shoot I always use roll....

However, I'd bet if you'd try two things one or the other might help. Set your elbow down where it is comfortable...To do this you may even need to raise or lower your chair and subsequently the monitor (to keep it eye level). Next grasping your joystick pivot your forearm around bringing the stick closer to your body and set it down. Try flying, rotate the stick where it sits so when you are relaxed the stick is in it's home centered position (I have gotten used to dead ahead, but it was a gradual transition from turned 45 degrees).

See if that works, adjust it a little as needed till satisfied.

Second thing which I "MUST" do as my hands are too small to control the stick and reach the guns/hat/various buttons with my stick hand anyways...Is I slide my hand down so the heel of it along the outer edge and little finger rests on the base, and with my remaining fingers grip the stick.

Now simple geometry says I lose control doing this as there is less movement for the same amount of translated action....However, my hand is now rock stable my arm not floating in space and very gentle minute actions can be performed because of that...Additionally though I'm small I still tend to horse the stick, so the loss of leverage making it in truth a hair harder to move it helps stabilize me.

Lastly, as I said I cannot fly and work the guns due to hand size....However, I have found using the stick to "just fly" and my left on the keyboard for everything else gives me much greater control....Especially firing my guns as folks have a tendancy to move the stick as they pull the trigger....This way I have excellent control of when and duration of fire.

Try em, if they work great, if they don't try something else.

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

blairgowrie
04-25-2004, 05:21 PM
Good stuff Billfish. That's the kind of help I was looking for. That could also be part of my problem. When I use the triggers on my stick, I am inclined to jerk off target. I might try keyboard firing to see if that helps.

Like most things in this game there is usually an intelligent solution.

And I just love your sig and avatar. Very creative and attractive. And may I say, beautiful.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

lil_labbit
04-25-2004, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by blairgowrie:
.
.
.
Just mentioned my thinking about the pedals to my dear wife. "Oh God no" she said. I wonder what she meant!

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I think it would help - how good for your legs it will be I dunno http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and your grip won't change from it either http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - and don't tell her it's rudder pedals ! - it's a foot-rest !

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

WUAF_Co_Hero
04-25-2004, 05:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Frankly, I rarely use rudder except when either trying to get on, or get away from an opponent in a tough dogfight....To shoot I always use roll....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I was you Blair, I would take this idea with a grain of salt.. It's not a horrible idea, because you won't yaw off target, but the only way you'll make good shots is if the target is either 1) not moving about or 2) incredibly predictible.

Either way, the way I see it, Yaw is as important as ailerons. You will never be able to master deflection shooting, or even dead 6 shots if you can't handle your rudders.

My advice (and I have always flown w/ a twist stick) is to, for now anyways: be VERY concious of your stick. When you're diving in on an enemy, survey yourself, and see if you're holding it funny. I had your problem too early on, and it just took practice. The most important thing is that you need to ease up on the stick. Hold it like you're holding a child.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

GK.
04-25-2004, 06:12 PM
I use to have a logisuck stick and it featured twist rudder. I made the decision to switch to the CH fighterstick and purchase rudder pedals. I did this for several reasons which i will explain. I do not regret it for one second. It turns out, a lot of the time i was using the twist stick to line up shots..and you just CANT do this because as soon as you release the twist, your flight path is not consistent with the bandit. I also found that i would be twisting the rudder inadvertantly with the logisuck stick. Rudder is really only useful for last second "snap shots". After I switched to rudderpedals, my gunnery improved tenfold and I moved above and beyond my previous status as "online ace" into the realm of "untouchable online ace."

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*
"P40's can't out run the zero, so we'll have to outfly them." -Ben Affleck

pourshot
04-25-2004, 06:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
my gunnery improved tenfold and I moved above and beyond my previous status as "online ace" into the realm of "untouchable online ace."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good to see the old Goodnight is back http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/mybaby.jpeg.JPG
Ride It Like Ya Stole It

LEBillfish
04-25-2004, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Co_Hero:
It's not a horrible idea, because you won't yaw off target, but the only way you'll make good shots is if the target is either 1) not moving about or 2) incredibly predictible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just what I was thinking about most of my Opponents......Catch them unaware, and learn how the actions before dictate the next one to come http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ..........However I'm sure we can all reasonably assume that subconsciously I use the rudder to some degree....Besides radical turns it makes a nice airbrake when used in tandem with ailerons and is used to track an opponent in tandem with other control surfaces.........However, I never ever jerk the plane to pop off a shot.....I simply set up and let them fly into my sights....Nice and smooth.

Jerking about like I'm having a seizure doesn't sound workable "for me".

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

gurypuddle
04-25-2004, 09:52 PM
Well Blair, sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I went with rudder pedals for the exact same reason your talking about. CH Pro USB is what I got and they work great. No problems at all with your FFB stick. Try it...you'll like it!

http://home.comcast.net/~e.lamb/wsb/media/156422/site1013.jpg

SithSpeeder
04-25-2004, 10:09 PM
Well, the most obvious thing here (IMNSHO) is to use the game control setup to change the deadband of your rudder...make it less sensitive around the neutral point. Won't cost you a cent to try that and may just really "fix" your problem.

Other than that, I _love_ my rudder pedals. I picked up a very lightly used pair for $80 on ebay (CH Pro Pedals USB). It adds to immersion as well as control.

Hope that helps.

* _54th_Speeder *

http://members.cox.net/~ijhutch/_images/400x200sig.jpg

T_O_A_D
04-26-2004, 02:08 AM
Try what SithSpeeder
just said. Then if that fails go ahead and buy your wife something nice to counter out the cost of the pedals. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I have the CH Pro USB and they work wonders for your flying and immersion.

Have you checked your Private Topics recently? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=ugtpc&s=400102)
131st_Toad's Squad link (http://www.geocities.com/vfw_131st/)
My TrackIR fix, Read the whole thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=49310655&m=15310285&p=1)
2.11 drivers (http://home.mchsi.com/~131st-vfw/NaturalPoint_trackIR_2_11.exe)
http://home.mchsi.com/~131st_vfw/T_O_A_D.jpg

F19_Ob
04-26-2004, 02:13 AM
Twistrudder works ok for me.
If it is to sensitive u can adjust the rudderpart in settings.

Personally I prefer the twistrudder coz i dont have much space.

CountFloyd__
04-26-2004, 02:28 AM
http://home.t-online.de/home/d-hofmann/homeeng.htm

Simpeds. Don't leave home base without them.

RdTimeTheCharm
04-26-2004, 02:49 AM
I acquired rudder pedals to take rudder function from hand to legs.

The aiming is way more difficult but flying is 100 more fun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Recommend

Fehler
04-26-2004, 03:50 AM
Without a doubt, pedals would help your aiming. Plus they add to the game's feel, help with aerobatics (Yo-yo's, hammerheads, turning), and are just too cool to be without.

Yaw, pitch, and roll are all necessary to get the most out of a plane. People that dont use yaw correctly dont fly clean, and therefore bleed energy in turns, climbs, and straight flights.

With a twist stick, one has a tendancy to over/under rudder when turning or shooting because of over-gripping. It's very similar to people that shoot pistols but use the crease in their index finger on the trigger, instead of the first pad, or anticipate recoil and force their shots low.

I promise, once your brain learns to use your feet and hands as a single unit, your shooting will greatly improve with pedals.

If you are elctronically inclined, you can make a set of pedals. There are actually quite a few sites that give great instruction on how to make home made rudders. I was actually going to do this, but decided on a set of CH Pro analong and wired the pot input into my Saitek X-45 rocker.

Beware however, I recommend getting the digital CH's over the analong ones for simplicity in use with other digital devices, like your stick.

Splurge... you wont regret it, I promise!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

blairgowrie
04-26-2004, 05:40 AM
I am beginning to feel a lot better now. Mostly because I realize from your posts that many of you have had the same problem at some time and have been able to solve it. Thanks all for your advice and comments.

Obviously I have to be more conscious of my grip strength and treat the stick as though it was a lady. I will reset my settings for yaw to make it less sensitive in the neutral zone. I am not sure how to adjust the neutral zone. My current YAW settings are 6 16 26 36 47 60 71 82 92 97. Can someone please suggest a new set of numbers for me and I will make the change?

I have a friend with a set of CH pedals which I will borrow to see what they are like. I have a pilots licence so am used to using my feet for rudder control. And then I will work on the Missus.

Thanks again for all your help.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg

AirBot
04-26-2004, 07:21 AM
Add some deadband to the twist axis. That should do it for ya'.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-26-2004, 10:53 AM
I have (and used for a couple years) a MSFFB "twist" stick. I liked it and did just fine. Then I got some CH pedals and absolutely love them.

The immersion and finer degree of control are priceless.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

blairgowrie
04-26-2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AirBot:
Add some deadband to the twist axis. That should do it for ya'.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Airbot. I didn't realise you could add deadband by axis. Learn something new every day here.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v41/blairgowrie/FBWebpage.jpg