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View Full Version : Tower of Babel... should they make it in an ac game?



MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 02:08 AM
I'd just like to say that I am not a christian, I hate religion infact. But, while I was a christian, I learned about the tower of babel... it was said it could almost reach heaven... My question is, since AC is about climbing ****... what IF the AC team either makes a new game that has the tower OR the tower could be DLC for the first game since the first game took place in the crusades... or dlc for revelation's altiar sections; YOU KNOW WHAT? **** all of this, I would just like to climb a structure that big in any AC game. do you think this is a good idea?

LoyalACFan
03-10-2013, 02:17 AM
No.

And close this please before it becomes a religious flame thread.

MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 02:22 AM
No.

And close this please before it becomes a religious flame thread.

nah, don't think I will. Isn't the whole AC series about religion anyway? why would the fans even get mad over this?

Gi1t
03-10-2013, 02:28 AM
nah, don't think I will. Isn't the whole AC series about religion anyway? why would the fans even get mad over this?

Yeah, I think getting the chance to climb something like that would be pretty cool. :) And I don't think this thread needs to be closed. All it's about is 'wouldn't it be cool to climb a structure like this one?' Just ignore the OPs opinion on religion in general, it's not part of the topic.

MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 02:35 AM
Yeah, I think getting the chance to climb something like that would be pretty cool. :) And I don't think this thread needs to be closed. All it's about is 'wouldn't it be cool to climb a structure like this one?' Just ignore the OPs opinion on religion in general, it's not part of the topic.

like I said, the whole series is ABOUT religion. well, not about but has religious themes to it so, I don't get how I could start a flamewar about religion in a thread about a game about religion. :/

LoyalACFan
03-10-2013, 02:39 AM
like I said, the whole series is ABOUT religion. well, not about but has religious themes to it so, I don't get how I could start a flamewar about religion in a thread about a game about religion. :/

That's the thing about flame wars; they don't have to make sense. Especially when politics or religion are involved.

MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 02:42 AM
That's the thing about flame wars; they don't have to make sense. Especially when politics or religion are involved.

I guess that's true! lol.

Gi1t
03-10-2013, 02:42 AM
That's the thing about flame wars; they don't have to make sense. Especially when politics or religion are involved.

Indeed, :) but I think this thread has as much potential to be a sensible discussion as it does to be a flame war thread. This one's just up to the users to define. XD

MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 02:44 AM
Indeed, :) but I think this thread has as much potential to be a sensible discussion as it does to be a flame war thread. This one's just up to the users to define. XD

I guess. the sensitive ones...

I-Like-Pie45
03-10-2013, 02:53 AM
Why not?

If they ever do make a First Civilization AC game, they'd have to be absolute fools not to include some biblical landmarks to climb.

D.I.D.
03-10-2013, 02:54 AM
the tower OR the tower could be DLC for the first game since the first game took place in the crusades

Why would it be appropriate for the Crusades? The Tower of Babel is a myth set thousands of years ago, not a prediction, and it's not real. It's an allegory to explain the range of languages, and it's a horror story to discourage intellectual curiosity. The idea of a tall building is just a narrative means to illustrate the concept.

Perk89
03-10-2013, 02:55 AM
What is he talking about with the series being about religion

AC has taken elements from all walks of history in order to give their own mythos a boost. Religion played a small part in that. AC is a sci-fi adventure with loaded with fiction that grounds itself in our world by borrowing historical elements. Other than that, there is literally nothing about the aeries that has to do with religion.

Perk89
03-10-2013, 02:58 AM
Lol an AC1 dlc?

the Towel of Babel occured like 10,000 or so BC. The Crusades happened 1100+ AD.

Seriously where do you people come from.

MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 03:01 AM
Lol an AC1 dlc?

the Towel of Babel occured like 10,000 or so BC. The Crusades happened 1100+ AD.

Seriously where do you people come from.

Oh... well then... I'm ****ing dumb...

inferno33222
03-10-2013, 04:57 AM
I think this would be really cool. Imagine if there was a game set in the early Mesopotamian era where the Babylonians flourished. We could free-run on the Hanging Gardens, climb the Tower of Babel, or sail down the Tigris river...

MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 05:18 AM
y'now, alot of people say this series is going down hill but with whole "history is our sandbox" deal, it just intrigues me. ****, go back to when jesus was alive (I don't believe in jesus but, it's a GAME) go back to when Mayans were alive, back to when Columbus, there's millions of possibilities.

rileypoole1234
03-10-2013, 05:35 AM
I think it would be really cool to see.

In fact, the Bible and religion interests me greatly, so I think a game set during the time of Christ or even before that, like during the old testament, would be really cool.

Aphex_Tim
03-10-2013, 09:40 AM
I remember climbing the Tower of Babel in Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones and that was probably the highest bloody structure i've ever climbed in any video game.
Imagine doing a leap of faith from the top and landing safely in a haystack. :p

AjinkyaParuleka
03-10-2013, 09:46 AM
I don't believe in Religion,they be fake.

Aphex_Tim
03-10-2013, 09:57 AM
Also, you people are talking so much about this thread not turning into a religious debate that it's turning into a religious debate.

UrDeviant1
03-10-2013, 10:03 AM
y'now, alot of people say this series is going down hill but with whole "history is our sandbox" deal, it just intrigues me. ****, go back to when jesus was alive (I don't believe in jesus but, it's a GAME) go back to when Mayans were alive, back to when Columbus, there's millions of possibilities.

But..but Jesus was actually...ah forget it.

D.I.D.
03-10-2013, 11:15 AM
I think this would be really cool. Imagine if there was a game set in the early Mesopotamian era where the Babylonians flourished. We could free-run on the Hanging Gardens, climb the Tower of Babel, or sail down the Tigris river...


y'now, alot of people say this series is going down hill but with whole "history is our sandbox" deal, it just intrigues me. ****, go back to when jesus was alive (I don't believe in jesus but, it's a GAME) go back to when Mayans were alive, back to when Columbus, there's millions of possibilities.

Sounds like some terrible "greatest hits" approach to history, like when people respond to Victorian England by screaming "Oh duuuuuude! They gotta do Jack The Ripper" because that's just about the only thing they know (and they don't even understand those incidents very well).

AC deviates dramatically from the historical record, but it still needs the historical record in order to ground itself. It's very uncertain if the Hanging Gardens of Babylon ever existed, or if they were just a story. People in the USA would be very unhappy to play a game about Columbus, and find themselves exploring South America only because Columbus never actually went further north than the Florida Keys. The Mayans are poorly understood; we know a lot about them, but we'd have a lot of trouble trying to create a day-today simulator of Mayan life without resorting to guesswork.

There are very well described periods of history when we know that real assassinations were happening. That's where the strength of the series lies. I don't really want to be playing a game where we see the pyramids built, long before the word "assassin" or its root even exist. I wish Ubisoft hadn't introduced the idea of two warring groups fighting through all of time, who are somehow distinct, who eventually decide to give themselves names. It's a really shaky bit of the story, much like the trashing of the geological record and evolution through the First Civ stuff. The worst they can do is to draw the story towards its weakest themes and weakest premises.

SaintPerkele
03-10-2013, 03:30 PM
Gentlemen, I present you Etemenanki, most likely the historical model for the biblical Tower of Babel.
http://megaconstrucciones.net/images/monumentos/foto/etemenanki-babilonia-5.jpg
It was 90 meters high, quite impressive back then, and located in Babylon. It's final destruction occured most likely in the 7th century along with the rest of Babylon, but it had already been partially destroyed and rebuilt numerous times before. So yes, it could indeed be in an AC game (I never really thought about one in Babylon, but that could be fantastic actually).

The biblical one? No, as there is no historical proof whatsoever for it. The Tower of Babel as something during the First Civilization? Sure, that could work, most of us are still hoping for Revelations-Altair-like-moments only set during the First Civilization anyway.

D.I.D.
03-10-2013, 04:33 PM
Gentlemen, I present you Etemenanki

Yes, you could have Etemenanki, but I don't think it could be presented as the Tower of Babel. A few historians have tried to make a name for themselves by picking a known tall building of ancient times and claiming that this must be the Tower of Babel, but it's very shaky.

Built in the 6th century BCE, in ruins by 300 BCE, the memory of Etemenanki would still be very much alive by the time the Tower of Babel legend came about. Since The Bible is a patchwork of much older stories, it's likely the story was round even earlier than the writings that comprise The Bible today. The Bible never says "the Tower of Babel", just "the city and the tower", so if they meant Etemenanki then it's strange the text doesn't give the name of this famous tower (or some other name). Also, since the story is meant to show that God scattered humanity to prevent them from working together to achieve great things, and that this is what spawned the world's separate languages from what was once a single human tongue, then we're talking about a tower built way back in the mists of time.

SaintPerkele
03-10-2013, 05:09 PM
Yes, you could have Etemenanki, but I don't think it could be presented as the Tower of Babel. A few historians have tried to make a name for themselves by picking a known tall building of ancient times and claiming that this must be the Tower of Babel, but it's very shaky.

Built in the 6th century BCE, in ruins by 300 BCE, the memory of Etemenanki would still be very much alive by the time the Tower of Babel legend came about. Since The Bible is a patchwork of much older stories, it's likely the story was round even earlier than the writings that comprise The Bible today. The Bible never says "the Tower of Babel", just "the city and the tower", so if they meant Etemenanki then it's strange the text doesn't give the name of this famous tower (or some other name). Also, since the story is meant to show that God scattered humanity to prevent them from working together to achieve great things, and that this is what spawned the world's separate languages from what was once a single human tongue, then we're talking about a tower built way back in the mists of time.
Sure, sure! Just saying that the biblical legend was most likely inspired by Etemenaki.

MinuteGlobe
03-10-2013, 07:08 PM
I don't believe in Religion,they be fake.

but... but, but, but... Games are fake...

itsamea-mario
03-10-2013, 09:39 PM
I don't believe in Religion,they be fake.

Religions aren't fake. Religions are very much real. The things they believe in however are questionable.

I suppose this would be nice. Getting a better glimpse of the first civilization would be nice, perhaps not a full game, but segments, there are plenty of things we could see that are the inspiration for various myths and such.

HeedfulMass4856
03-10-2013, 11:24 PM
nah, don't think I will. Isn't the whole AC series about religion anyway?

Um, the majority of big players in Assassin's Creed games are atheist... so no.


Why not?

If they ever do make a First Civilization AC game, they'd have to be absolute fools not to include some biblical landmarks to climb.

If I'm correct, the gods and goddesses in Assassin's Creed are not based on Christianity, so a biblical landmark would contradict the deities present in the game... but I may be wrong about everything I just said. :p

PS: A First Civilization game would be badass - plain and simple.

MinuteGlobe
03-11-2013, 12:08 AM
Um, the majority of big players in Assassin's Creed games are atheist... so no..

I'm not saying the games about religion, I'm saying the games have religious undertones like in AC2 and the glyphs and the purpose of that game was to kill the pope.

itsamea-mario
03-11-2013, 12:12 AM
Um, the majority of big players in Assassin's Creed games are atheist... so no.



If I'm correct, the gods and goddesses in Assassin's Creed are not based on Christianity, so a biblical landmark would contradict the deities present in the game... but I may be wrong about everything I just said. :p

PS: A First Civilization game would be badass - plain and simple.

No in the AC universe pretty much all mythology including that in the bible is based on TWCB interpretations constantly changing.
In the AC universe jesus is believed to have been in possession of at least one POE.

HeedfulMass4856
03-11-2013, 12:15 AM
I'm not saying the games about religion, I'm saying the games have religious undertones like in AC2 and the glyphs and the purpose of that game was to kill the pope.
You kind of did... just in question form. The reason you had to kill the pope was because he was a corrupt Templar not because of religion or anything. (Sorry if I'm being a smartass :()

MinuteGlobe
03-11-2013, 12:18 AM
You kind of did... just in question form. The reason you had to kill the pope was because he was a corrupt Templar not because of religion or anything. (Sorry if I'm being a smartass :()

it's fine. at the beginning of each game it starts of with a disclaimer saying the games are made by people with various different religions so, That's where I got that point from to...

HeedfulMass4856
03-11-2013, 12:18 AM
No in the AC universe pretty much all mythology including that in the bible is based on TWCB interpretations constantly changing.
In the AC universe jesus is believed to have been in possession of at least one POE.

So your saying that in Assassin's Creed III, Christianity is based on TWCB's interpretations? Now that I think about it, that sounds about right, actually, since they did come "before".

Bastiaen
03-11-2013, 12:37 AM
Ubi already did this in Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones. It was a great game, with a great setting, but it was a great fit for PoP, not for AC. The only history they can draw on is considered religious lore.

Gi1t
03-11-2013, 04:17 AM
Ubi already did this in Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones. It was a great game, with a great setting, but it was a great fit for PoP, not for AC. The only history they can draw on is considered religious lore.

Well, since they don't seem interested in making those anymore.... -__-

Black_Widow9
03-11-2013, 04:36 AM
You guys have done a pretty good job of not turning this into a religious flame thread so let's make sure it stays that way and it will remain open. ;)

RinoTheBouncer
03-11-2013, 08:01 AM
Definitely, YES.

I want them to go back to Babylonian and Sumerian times. It's good to see how life goes on there through the eyes of the AC series. Was it simplistic? was it big? was it high-tech like Ancient Astronauts Theorists describe it? It would be great to play as the Assassins before Altair.

And I think it's okay that the refer to religion in games. I'm a religious person myself but I'm open to seeing games and their different interpretations of religion. Real or not, they're stories and they entertain you. That's all.

LightRey
03-11-2013, 08:17 AM
As part of an Eden-like background/overarching story, sure. I'd say the same thing for things like the Trojan war, Atlantis, or any myth which could have a TWCB (or other) related explanation.

RinoTheBouncer
03-11-2013, 10:26 AM
As part of an Eden-like background/overarching story, sure. I'd say the same thing for things like the Trojan war, Atlantis, or any myth which could have a TWCB (or other) related explanation.

Exactly!
Atlantis would be great. Ancient Sumer and those "Space Suit Like" drawings that Ancient Astronaut Theorists point out to might be explained by something related to Eden, the POE and TWCB.

itsamea-mario
03-11-2013, 11:15 AM
So your saying that in Assassin's Creed III, Christianity is based on TWCB's interpretations? Now that I think about it, that sounds about right, actually, since they did come "before".

Not Christianity, in the AC universe Jesus was a real guy, not magical or anything, but a normal human who came across the apple and possibly the staff.
The stuff in the old testament however, which is basically the Hebrew stuff, that's TWCB interpretation.

Escappa
03-11-2013, 11:18 AM
Not Christianity, in the AC universe Jesus was a real guy, not magical or anything, but a normal human who came across the apple and possibly the staff.
The stuff in the old testament however, which is basically the Hebrew stuff, that's TWCB interpretation.

Am I the only one that thinks that 90% of ever one who loves AC also loves Dan Brown? ;)
There's just something about "secrets in history" that makes me happy :p

Goxxi
03-11-2013, 04:46 PM
Generally that's not a bad idea , the Babylon Tower is symbol of evil.
Babylon tower was bulit by Nimrod who was rebel against God and he was maybe the first dictator who wanted to establish a global dictatorship and new world order.
Also when people became immorale and destructive it was happened a Big flood and after that Nimrod wanted to bulid one huge tower untill the sky and he said " If "He" would send us another flood we will climb on the top of the tower" but Creator was decided that couse of their immoral and destructove behaivor to destroy Babylon and to take cate that nobody will live on that land anymore.

Also another dictator and very destructive mind , Alexander the Great wanted to renovate the Babylon tower and Babylon but suddenly he died as very young after one drinking party ( during the one little bizzare competition who can drink more alchohol, he just got fainted and failed on he ground and passed away)

Also today we have a NWO and European Union (4rd reich) which is a tool and symbol of evil, new world order and global dictatorship and It's not a coincidence that building of European parlaiment in Strasbourg identical to Babylon tower.

http://www.hereandtherewithpatandbob.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Combined-Tower-and-EU.jpg

AherasSTRG
03-11-2013, 05:55 PM
Hell NO

SaintPerkele
03-11-2013, 05:59 PM
Also today we have a NWO and European Union (4rd reich) which is a tool and symbol of evil, new world order and global dictatorship and It's not a coincidence that building of European parlaiment in Strasbourg identical to Babylon tower.

http://www.hereandtherewithpatandbob.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Combined-Tower-and-EU.jpg
Take your conspiracy crap to another place. This has zero to do with the thread.

Goxxi
03-11-2013, 06:17 PM
Hehehehe I knew that some german guy will replay on my message first with similar comment like " conspiracy crap" .....but no doubt that EU is a 4rd reich and also the very similar project like 3rd reich was in it's own time , also the hitler's rhetorics was the same like pro EU politicans today like : united Europe from Atlantic to Ural , free trade, universal laws, uiversal institutions, one universal EU monette, EU army........etc but only the difference was that Berlin was supossed to be a capitol of EU instead of Brussels today.
Of course If they want to establish new world order and dictatorship they have to centralize the power and to destroy identity of people and identity of nations , their culture, their institution.......etc

D.I.D.
03-11-2013, 06:32 PM
Hehehehe I knew that some german guy will replay on my message first with similar comment like " conspiracy crap" .....but no doubt that EU is a 4rd reich and also the very similar project like 3rd reich was in it's own time , also the hitler's rhetorics was the same like pro EU politicans today like : united Europe from Atlantic to Ural , free trade, universal laws, uiversal institutions, one universal EU monette, EU army........etc but only the difference was that Berlin was supossed to be a capitol of EU instead of Brussels today.
Of course If they want to establish new world order and dictatorship they have to centralize the power and to destroy identity of people and identity of nations , their culture, their institution.......etc

These conspiracies rely on the idea that there's something inately German about dictatorships, and that's clearly nonsense. The idea that they're playing the long game by building up the EU over several decades is insulting to both the Germans and the intelligence of everyone reading it.

Cultures are protected in the EU. Any single state whose economic power relies on a certain industry is not bound to the decisions of the majority if they choose to move against it (we're seeing that now, with the UK as the only country to vote against new regulations on bankers' pay). EU countries choose to adopt the Euro by referendum, if they feel it would be an improvement. There's no "EU Army", any more than there was a "NATO army".

SaintPerkele
03-11-2013, 08:05 PM
Hehehehe I knew that some german guy will replay on my message first with similar comment like " conspiracy crap" .....but no doubt that EU is a 4rd reich and also the very similar project like 3rd reich was in it's own time , also the hitler's rhetorics was the same like pro EU politicans today like : united Europe from Atlantic to Ural , free trade, universal laws, uiversal institutions, one universal EU monette, EU army........etc but only the difference was that Berlin was supossed to be a capitol of EU instead of Brussels today.
Of course If they want to establish new world order and dictatorship they have to centralize the power and to destroy identity of people and identity of nations , their culture, their institution.......etc
Congratulations, you have just proven to be not just a conspiracy theorist but also a racist and got yourself a report.

Sl1ckM4st3r
03-11-2013, 08:11 PM
Why would it be appropriate for the Crusades? The Tower of Babel is a myth set thousands of years ago, not a prediction, and it's not real. It's an allegory to explain the range of languages, and it's a horror story to discourage intellectual curiosity. The idea of a tall building is just a narrative means to illustrate the concept.

Thanks for starting a flame war you ***hole..you don't need to bash people's religions just because you feel like it. That isn't even the ****ing topic of this thread.

SaintPerkele
03-11-2013, 08:32 PM
Thanks for starting a flame war you ***hole..you don't need to bash people's religions just because you feel like it. That isn't even the ****ing topic of this thread.
Actually, you are the one starting a flame war right now, since this thread worked pretty well so far. First of all, no need for insults. Secondly, yes, most of what he has written is the topic of this thread - someone had the idea of a Tower of Babel DLC for AC1/ACR and he was pointing out that the legend is set a long time before the Third Crusade and the biblical version of the tower never existed. Most important representatives of Christianity are well aware and even say it that many parts of the bible are merely allegories and in case of this one, it is pretty obvious. Or do you actually believe that humanity had the means of building a tower way higher than modern skyscrapers back then?
The only offensive thing would probably be "it's a horror story to discourage intellectual curiosity.". And this one sentence does definitely not give you the right of insulting him.

EDIT: If this was a trollpost however, disregard my reply.

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
03-11-2013, 08:35 PM
Guys, please do not use insults in posts, if you have an issue with something someone has posted please use the report button.

D.I.D.
03-11-2013, 09:39 PM
Thanks for starting a flame war you ***hole..you don't need to bash people's religions just because you feel like it. That isn't even the ****ing topic of this thread.

Where? What flamewar? I'm not bashing religions.

That's the meaning of that story. Any priest would tell you the same (http://christianity.about.com/od/biblestorysummaries/p/towerofbabel.htm). It's a hypothetical situation in which God is alarmed by human tribes working together to create this great tower. He decides that there is no limit to the things mankind might achieve working together like this, so a great wind is sent to scatter the people. As a result, they forget each other and form separate cultures. The Bible tells us this is God's plan. It's also a warning, in which God tells us that intellectual curiosity will lead humanity away from God.

Don't call me names because you don't understand what is being talked about.

Assassin_M
03-11-2013, 09:43 PM
Thanks for starting a flame war you ***hole..you don't need to bash people's religions just because you feel like it. That isn't even the ****ing topic of this thread.

To be fair, he didnt really insult anything...

His reply here is actually one of the more intellectual and knowledgable posts...

Ubi-MoshiMoshi
03-11-2013, 09:43 PM
Where? What flamewar? I'm not bashing religions.



Please do exactly what I have asked you to do in the previous post, not carry on.

Back to the topic's title please.

Assassin_M
03-11-2013, 09:46 PM
It can be used like the parting of the red sea and water turning into wine...

Bastiaen
03-11-2013, 09:54 PM
It can be used like the parting of the red sea and water turning into wine...

That is a good call. Remember guys, AC is fiction. I'm Mormon, look at me speculate:
God is one of TWCB! Gasp! We can do this with Roman gods, but not the God of the Abrahamic Religions? Fiction...
Anyway, it could actually be a cool setting for allowing us to go into the world of TWCB. Imagine, something that incorporated all of the stories from Genesis and put them into a fun game. I'd play it, though it would probably offend some members of my family.

HeedfulMass4856
03-11-2013, 10:04 PM
Come one guys. This is a groot idea!

Jon253
03-11-2013, 10:07 PM
I was thinking about this story and it would make a great fit in the AC universe. Nimrod would make a great Templar grand master, and perhaps in the Tower of Babel isn't a mudbrick tower, but some kind of machine that if competed would have allowed him to rule the entire planet. Perhaps he used one or many pieces of eden to control the people to build the tower

Perhaps this setting work work best with a babylonian or persian Assassin thousands of years later that learns about this ancient conflict as a backdrop against his battles against the templars, for instance a group of Templars locate the ruins of the tower of babel and try to finish Nimrods work.

MinuteGlobe
03-11-2013, 10:25 PM
Come one guys. This is a groot idea!

hahaha... someone finally pointed that out...