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View Full Version : Could a Pirate Honestly stay true to the Creed !



MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 04:46 PM
Questions in the title Assassins !

The Assassins Creed teaches one to stay their blade from an innocent ? - Pirates pillage kill and steal Regardless of the who their target is

Never compromise the brotherhood - this one is near impossible to break unless Edward does something really drastic ( like Altair in AC1 )

Hide in plain site - Again idiot proof , the Assassin Symbol on the jackdaw is known only to those of the brotherhood and as blackbeard said "there are mysteries about that not even i dare ask "

But the first one is classic irony in this case .

What do you all think .

D.I.D.
03-08-2013, 04:48 PM
Which assassin wasn't a thieving murderer?

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 04:50 PM
Which assassin wasn't a thieving murderer?

Yes but the Assassins murdered people who did harm to others ! the Assassins Creed teaches an Assassin not to harm an innocent yet pirates pillage and kill just about anyone.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 04:57 PM
Yes but the Assassins murdered people who did harm to others ! the Assassins Creed teaches an Assassin not to harm an innocent yet pirates pillage and kill just about anyone.

A pirate who for example, pillages only military vessels would still be seen as a pirate and yet he stays true to his creed.

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:01 PM
A pirate who for example, pillages only military vessels would still be seen as a pirate and yet he stays true to his creed.


Pirates did not just attack millitary vessels they attacked anything which had value attached to it, more commonly cargo ships and would kill anyone onboard who posed a threat to them.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:07 PM
Pirates did not just attack millitary vessels they attacked anything which had value attached to it, more commonly cargo ships and would kill anyone onboard who posed a threat to them.

See it this way.

Pirates attack a civilian vessel: People say pirates pillaged the ship.

A black flagged ship destroyed a Spanish Galleon: people still say pirates pillaged the ship.

See the trend? What a guy actually does, and what people accuse him of doing are totally different. You can be a pirate who pillages just about anything. Or you can just pillage military vessels and still be called a pirate.

Similarly mercenaries. They are the guys who fight for money. So they'd have no qualm killing civilians. Does that mean mercenaries can never be assassins? But we've already seen merc assassins.

Take the example of The Night Stalker. You'd agree that a mentally twisted man who'd kill indiscriminately can never be a true assassin right? That's what people accused him of. But reading his hacked bio suggests he was an Assassin to the core.

dxsxhxcx
03-08-2013, 05:08 PM
if I'm not wrong Edward was a pirate BEFORE he joins the Order, so who knows what kind of effect this will have on him..

and IMO if he uses the Assassin symbol on his flag he'll be compromising the Brotherhood, probably all the Templars know that symbol and that would just make him an easy target, just like Altair when he was imprudent at the beginning of AC1 allowing Robert to go after him because he left his friends there...

rob.davies2014
03-08-2013, 05:09 PM
I've heard in interviews that they're going to address this in the game. They say Edward is the most conflicted Assassin yet because he has to square his selfish pirate lifestyle with the selfless duty of being an Assassin.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:13 PM
I've heard in interviews that they're going to address this in the game. They say Edward is the most conflicted Assassin yet because he has to square his selfish pirate lifestyle with the selfless duty of being an Assassin.

I can't wait to see this conflict play out in the game!

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:15 PM
See it this way.

Pirates attack a civilian vessel: People say pirates pillaged the ship.

A black flagged ship destroyed a Spanish Galleon: people still say pirates pillaged the ship.

See the trend? What a guy actually does, and what people accuse him of doing are totally different. You can be a pirate who pillages just about anything. Or you can just pillage military vessels and still be called a pirate.

Similarly mercenaries. They are the guys who fight for money. So they'd have no qualm killing civilians. Does that mean mercenaries can never be assassins? But we've already seen merc assassins.

Take the example of The Night Stalker. You'd agree that a mentally twisted man who'd kill indiscriminately can never be a true assassin right? That's what people accused him of. But reading his hacked bio suggests he was an Assassin to the core.

No i see were you are coming from but the Creed is something that has to adhered to wether or not an Assassin is carrying his duties regardless. the fact still remains that Pirates attacked and still to this very day ( Modern Day Pirates ) Kill and injure innocent people to lay claim to their prize . Now the Assassins fight for peace in all things the irony of that is they will attack the enemy un announced thus disturbung the peace but you have to remember that they dont attack innocent people pirates did and still do thats the point i am making.

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:16 PM
if I'm not wrong Edward was a pirate BEFORE he joins the Order, so who knows what kind of effect this will have on him..

and IMO if he uses the Assassin symbol on his flag he'll be compromising the Brotherhood, probably all the Templars know that symbol and that would just make him an easy target, just like Altair when he was imprudent at the beginning of AC1 allowing Robert to go after him because he left his friends there...

This is the point do you not think already the creed is being broken in this game ?

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:17 PM
I can't wait to see this conflict play out in the game!

Agreed that will be very interesting ?

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:20 PM
No i see were you are coming from but the Creed is something that has to adhered to wether or not an Assassin is carrying his duties regardless. the fact still remains that Pirates attacked and still to this very day ( Modern Day Pirates ) Kill and injure innocent people to lay claim to their prize . Now the Assassins fight for peace in all things the irony of that is they will attack the enemy un announced thus disturbung the peace but you have to remember that they dont attack innocent people pirates did and still do thats the point i am making.

You do kill guards indiscriminately in every game :P And what other pirates do shouldn't be any of his business.

rmartinezdl
03-08-2013, 05:21 PM
AC lost their track a long time ago, ubisoft will do whatever sells. lolz

Wait for Assassins Creed: Assassins Warfare (1-7)

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:22 PM
You do kill guards indiscriminately in every game :P And what other pirates do shouldn't be any of his business.

Yes but the guards are in service to the enemy and will attack on site so they are not innocent , in terms of what other pirates do i was just generalising thats what pirates done so why would Captain Edward Kenway be any different ? as a pirate he would hardly be selective of his targets would he.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:25 PM
This is the point do you not think already the creed is being broken in this game ?

Remember the Assassin dens with huge assassin symbols on top and the ziplines? Hell the assassin costumes themselves!


Agreed that will be very interesting ?

Mouthwatering. :D

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:27 PM
Yes but the guards are in service to the enemy and will attack on site so they are not innocent , in terms of what other pirates do i was just generalising thats what pirates done so why would Captain Edward Kenway be any different ? as a pirate he would hardly be selective of his targets would he.

Because he is an Assassin too? He would pick his targets from the intersection of both of his interests.

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:32 PM
Because he is an Assassin too? He would pick his targets fro the intersection of both of his interests.

Yes i know he is an Assassin but you are not getting the point i am trying to make just because he is an Assassin would not automaticaly give him the god given right to Attack an innocent Merchant vesell who was minding their own business trying to earn a living which pirates was famed for.

His Title does not make him any less different from those he is hunting as the templars kill anyone who they belive is spare part to their cause direct or in direct.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:36 PM
Yes i know he is an Assassin but you are not getting the point i am trying to make just because he is an Assassin would not automaticaly give him the god given right to Attack an innocent Merchant vesell who was minding their own business trying to earn a living which pirates was famed for..

But he can attack a military vessel too? The ship in the trailer was military I think. That's what I'm saying, he can pick and choose his targets. And who knows, maybe he attacks only Templar ships? Just because he is a pirate doesn't mean he'll follow what other pirates do step to step. We've already established he is a different sort of pirate :P

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:41 PM
But he can attack a military vessel too? The ship in the trailer was military I think. That's what I'm saying, he can pick and choose his targets. And who knows, maybe he attacks only Templar ships? Just because he is a pirate doesn't mean he'll follow what other pirates do step to step. We've already established he is a different sort of pirate :P

Oh i know what your saying Pirates attack any vessel thats what i am saying there for if he attacks an innocent merchant then he will be breaking the creed in a spectacular fashion.

I dont know maybe i am being far to picky it cant be absolute spot on, but i am talking from the Creed point of view - something i hold scared :p lol !

D.I.D.
03-08-2013, 05:42 PM
Yes but the Assassins murdered people who did harm to others ! the Assassins Creed teaches an Assassin not to harm an innocent yet pirates pillage and kill just about anyone.

The game has you kill anyone who's inconvenient or in the way, really. Most of the people haven't done anything worse than stand at a guard post.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:44 PM
Oh i know what your saying Pirates attack any vessel thats what i am saying there for if he attacks an innocent merchant then he will be breaking the creed in a spectacular fashion.


That is why he probably won't attack an innocent merchant vessel, but absolutely attack a military/Templar vessel.

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:51 PM
The game has you kill anyone who's inconvenient or in the way, really. Most of the people haven't done anything worse than stand at a guard post.

Ok look at from this point of view , Ezio said to christina in brotherhood during the repressed memories that the reason he has to kill the guards is because they are in service to the enemy these are not innocents they will attack on site and favour the cause of the Assassins Enemy , now go back to AC1 when Altair was in king solomans temple - he kiiled an innocent by stander who had nothing to do with this war so ultimately he was an innocent, innocents i am reffering to normal civillians who are going about their normal working day who are none the wiser to the war that is going on between the Assassins and Templars , these guards are an indirect enemy and some direct so i see no comparison there.

The creed teaches stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent ie Working class civillians who have no part of this conflict.

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 05:52 PM
That is why he probably won't attack an innocent merchant vessel, but absolutely attack a military/Templar vessel.

But do we know if he will be attacking merchant vessels ? thats the thing.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:54 PM
But do we know if he will be attacking merchant vessels ? thats the thing.

Before his induction? Most likely yes, after his induction? probably not (or he may, that's where the conflict part comes from.)

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 05:55 PM
The creed teaches stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent ie Working class civillians who have no part of this conflict.

So there's nothing in the creed stopping him from raiding military vessels? :p

D.I.D.
03-08-2013, 05:59 PM
Ok look at from this point of view , Ezio said to christina in brotherhood during the repressed memories that the reason he has to kill the guards is because they are in service to the enemy these are not innocents they will attack on site and favour the cause of the Assassins Enemy , now go back to AC1 when Altair was in king solomans temple - he kiiled an innocent by stander who had nothing to do with this war so ultimately he was an innocent, innocents i am reffering to normal civillians who are going about their normal working day who are none the wiser to the war that is going on between the Assassins and Templars , these guards are an indirect enemy and some direct so i see no comparison there.

The creed teaches stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent ie Working class civillians who have no part of this conflict.

If they really took that seriously you'd have a different but interesting game! I'd enjoy it quite a lot if they were really strict about this, but they're not.

I know the parts of the story you're talking about, but you have to suspend disbelief in order to accept them within the bounds of this story. James Bond would be a psychopath in the real world, as many stand-up comics like to point out, and so are our protagonists. No real person would think the penalty for working for the wrong side was violent death, unless they were mad or evil. At the very least, that stuff ought to torture you. But we let it go, so the game can exist.

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 06:03 PM
If they really took that seriously you'd have a different but interesting game! I'd enjoy it quite a lot if they were really strict about this, but they're not.

I know the parts of the story you're talking about, but you have to suspend disbelief in order to accept them within the bounds of this story. James Bond would be a psychopath in the real world, as many stand-up comics like to point out, and so are our protagonists. No real person would think the penalty for working for the wrong side was violent death, unless they were mad or evil. At the very least, that stuff ought to torture you. But we let it go, so the game can exist.

So really and truly as the games have progressed the creed has ment absolute nothing lol this what i loved about AC1 it was pure and you actualy felt like an Assassin every action in the game had to be in accordance with the Assassins Creed.

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 06:06 PM
So there's nothing in the creed stopping him from raiding military vessels? :p

I am not talking about Millitary Vessels i am talking civillian and domestic vessels

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 06:12 PM
So really and truly as the games have progressed the creed has ment absolute nothing lol this what i loved about AC1 it was pure and you actualy felt like an Assassin every action in the game had to be in accordance with the Assassins Creed.

Even in AC1 you could indiscriminately kill guards without any penalty..


I am not talking about Millitary Vessels i am talking civillian and domestic vessels

Like I said.. he probably won't hunt civilians...... except that one time he is forced to fire on a civilian vessel... *plot thickens*

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 06:24 PM
Even in AC1 you could indiscriminately kill guards without any penalty..



Like I said.. he probably won't hunt civilians...... except that one time he is forced to fire on a civilian vessel... *plot thickens*

This is kind of what i am hoping for the game a conflict of interests.

DisbandedBox359
03-08-2013, 06:48 PM
i don't know anyone else, but when i play i steal from every civilian haha

LoyalACFan
03-08-2013, 06:50 PM
They could easily say that the Templars are puppeteering all of the trading interests in the Caribbean to finance their rise to power. Thus, every merchant ship in the game would be Templar-backed, even if the sailors themselves weren't. Just like how 99% of the guards in the series don't even know about the secret war, they're just paid to kill intruders.

TheHumanTowel
03-08-2013, 06:56 PM
Edward falls into the pirating lifestyle before he encounters the assassins I think. The devs have stressed he's selfish and reckless so maybe he'll have a character arc where he learns to appreciate the creed over the course of the game.

FrankieSatt
03-08-2013, 07:06 PM
A Pirate would never join the "Order" much less be able to stick to their creed. The only thing a Pirate cares about is money and fame and making either any way possible, killing anyone in their way.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 07:11 PM
A Pirate would never join the "Order" much less be able to stick to their creed. The only thing a Pirate cares about is money and fame and making either any way possible, killing anyone in their way.

A mercenary fights on whichever side that pays him more. By your logic mercenaries shouldn't be Assassins either.

ACfan443
03-08-2013, 07:14 PM
The Creed's been long forgotten about anyway. I don't even know why it's still in the title.

Sushiglutton
03-08-2013, 07:16 PM
Edward falls into the pirating lifestyle before he encounters the assassins I think. The devs have stressed he's selfish and reckless so maybe he'll have a character arc where he learns to appreciate the creed over the course of the game.

This is the way I have understood it too. Also the developers spoke about the pirate society as a primitive and failed attempt at a democracy. So in some sense the pirate ideology, of creating a state where people are free, is in line with what the assassins want to accomplish on a global scale. The means the pirates use are not acceptable though and I guess this will lead to a conflict between old Edward, new Edward and his pirate friends.

LoyalACFan
03-08-2013, 07:17 PM
The Creed's been long forgotten about anyway. I don't even know why it's still in the title.

*Sigh*, no it hasn't... They just don't go over it in painful detail anymore because all the fans know it by heart at this point. You could make the case that the "hide in plain sight" tenet has been downplayed, but AC4 is supposed to be bringing it back to some extent.

pirate1802
03-08-2013, 07:29 PM
So in some sense the pirate ideology, of creating a state where people are free, is in line with what the assassins want to accomplish on a global scale. The means the pirates use are not acceptable though and I guess this will lead to a conflict between old Edward, new Edward and his pirate friends.

This further piques my interest in this game!

Sushiglutton
03-08-2013, 07:38 PM
This further piques my interest in this game!

Yeah Ubi has succesfully sold me on the idea that there could be an interesting story to tell here about government in its most basic form, freedom and what you are allowed to do to achieve it etc.

ACfan443
03-08-2013, 07:38 PM
*Sigh*, no it hasn't... They just don't go over it in painful detail anymore because all the fans know it by heart at this point.

There have been many newcomers to the series, especially with AC3. I find it incredibly abstruse that the title on the game box is 'Assassin's Creed', and this so called Creed is not even mentioned throughout the game. (Regardless of whether the core fans know it by heart).

TheHumanTowel
03-08-2013, 07:44 PM
There have been many newcomers to the series, especially with AC3. I find it incredibly abstruse that the title on the game box is 'Assassin's Creed', and this so called Creed is not even mentioned throughout the game. (Regardless of whether the core fans know it by heart).
The only game where they've barely mentioned it is AC3. It was talked about a fair bit in all other previous games.

deskp
03-08-2013, 07:45 PM
I hope Edwards assassin contacts sticks around a while in the story. Instead of just handing him a list of targets. Multiple smaller lists like we got in ac1 was better.
I believe the "spirit" of the creed will be more part of the story of this game, seeing as hes an assassin in training, by proepr assassins i hope, no 1 old man who long ago game up his assassin calling.

dxsxhxcx
03-08-2013, 07:47 PM
*Sigh*, no it hasn't... They just don't go over it in painful detail anymore because all the fans know it by heart at this point. You could make the case that the "hide in plain sight" tenet has been downplayed, but AC4 is supposed to be bringing it back to some extent.

IMO one thing has nothing to do with the other, yes, long term fans know the tenets and about what the Order is about, but we don't know how each ancestor reacted to it, IMO this is an important part of the character development and shouldn't be left out, this IMO also make the transition from a nobody to a master assassin more natural...

MasterAssasin84
03-08-2013, 08:08 PM
IMO one thing has nothing to do with the other, yes, long term fans know the tenets and about what the Order is about, but we don't know how each ancestor reacted to it, IMO this is an important part of the character development and shouldn't be left out, this IMO also make the transition from a nobody to a master assassin more natural...


This is what i would like the transition from a rowdy brash pirate to a master Assassin but at the same time keeping true to the ways of the brotherhood and the creed.