PDA

View Full Version : durability of I-153



mike_espo
02-16-2004, 09:12 PM
Just shot down an I-153 with a E-7 online. Took all of my ammo to do it. Just to see, I went offline and attacked 4 friendly I-153s. It is difficult to bring these down. The I-16s were easy-one burst and they're gone. The I-153s are definately more durable than other russian aircraft. I noticed this after the patch. Anyone else?

mike_espo
02-16-2004, 09:12 PM
Just shot down an I-153 with a E-7 online. Took all of my ammo to do it. Just to see, I went offline and attacked 4 friendly I-153s. It is difficult to bring these down. The I-16s were easy-one burst and they're gone. The I-153s are definately more durable than other russian aircraft. I noticed this after the patch. Anyone else?

clint-ruin
02-16-2004, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike_espo:
Just shot down an I-153 with a E-7 online. Took all of my ammo to do it. Just to see, I went offline and attacked 4 friendly I-153s. It is difficult to bring these down. The I-16s were easy-one burst and they're gone. The I-153s are definately more durable than other russian aircraft. I noticed this after the patch. Anyone else?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The I-153 is a real bastard to DM test in a controlled way.

I believe that most of its currents toughness comes from the inherant behaviour of FBs damage system as a whole.

In shooting the 153 it is quite common to have your hits distributed over all 4 wings, the tailplane, and rudder.

Individually, all structural components appear to be within a reasonable margin of 'toughness'.

The problems start to occur when hits are distributed all over the entire damage model, and none of them trips over the line to make any one particular part fall off.

Not sure what the best solution to this might be.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
02-16-2004, 11:39 PM
Am interested in comparing I~153 with the new Gladiator and Falco.

I hope I~153 does not get BANNED from the Biplane Servers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight
I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait... ~Bearcat99
Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age ~ElAurens

clint-ruin
02-17-2004, 12:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Am interested in comparing I~153 with the new Gladiator and Falco.

I hope I~153 does not get BANNED from the Biplane Servers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It might get banned anyway - don't think there are many biplanes that could stand up to 2x ShVAK, 4x UB, or 4xShKAS :&lt;

Not forgetting that it's in many ways more advanced than many monoplanes of the era. I-152, the Me262 of the 30s? ;&gt;

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

zugfuhrer
02-17-2004, 12:24 AM
According to Gunter Rall was both the I-16 and I-153 very fragile. One burst with the MG and it cought fire.
By some unknown reasons was the I-16 a very good plane in IL-2 and FB.
There where many who thought that the plane was to good, so the last patch corrected this.
Nowdays not many fly the I-16 which was the favourite plane online one year ago.
The I-153 hasnt gone the same changes, maybe because of the lack of "whining"
I have noticed the same durablility as you have you can hit it with 50 projectiles and it flies on as if nothing has happend, at least the AI-planes.
Other planes that gone the same changes as the I-16 is the Hurricane which was very good at the original patch.
The next "uberwhiningplane" is the La-7 but I dont think it is going to be changed.

JtD
02-17-2004, 02:43 AM
If you attack from 6 o'clock high or shoot at a turning I-153, ONE hit with MG 151/20 is often enough to rip off the top wing.

Therr_
02-17-2004, 03:48 AM
and one more questionhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

did you noticed how fast I-153 is?
several times I fight against I-153
I flew Bf-109G-6/AS and its really fast
why?
it was rather slow biplane......

WWMaxGunz
02-17-2004, 03:57 AM
Clint! The wings are not seperate targets??? With all the detail of the models, the seperately traced bullets that have their own impact angles and velocities relative to the target and the damage doesn't occur where the hit is made??? Even the EAW hit bubbles were specific to parts of the planes and with the tweak program those could be made pretty small indeed!

I wonder where wing damage on the FW-190's is also getting to if what you say is true? Some people are moving too fast with upgrades and deadlines to connect all the dots? That's the trouble with loads of detail, there's loads of detail to get right or even done at all!


Neal

SeaFireLIV
02-17-2004, 04:06 AM
Great, not content with neutering the Hurris, LA5s, the plucky I16s, now we focus on the I153.

Not even that many people fly the I153. All it needs is some aiming and it goes down easy enough.

And although the I16 has been reduced to a flying egg, I still fly it regularly and score many kills. The trick is don`t get hit and it`ll eat the enemy for breakfast.

It`s so tiring to get the Luftwhiners who find they can`t shoot down an I16, I153 or Lagg3 with the accuracy and effectiveness of Superman and jump here to attempt to bully Oleg into changing it until they can.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/LAlowblue.jpg

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Tue February 17 2004 at 12:44 PM.]

Ankanor
02-17-2004, 05:22 AM
Dunno what is the problem. Yes, the I-153 is not like the I-16, but I've had no problems downing them. A burst in the engine will make it smoke and the tchaika will go down, if you aim at the cross of the wings and body, you will either rip a wing off, hit the fuel tank, kill the pilot. But you have to be close, really close. The 2 Oerlikons of the Emil make it a beast in close ranges. The MG151/15 of the F-2 is another matter-Pilot or Engine, do not try to rip wings-most of the cases you will waste your ammo.
So the advice will be, get in close, aim properly, NEVER shoot from dead behind.

http://server4.uploadit.org/files2/101203-delphinche.jpg
Some things are worth fighting for.

VW-IceFire
02-17-2004, 07:33 AM
I beat up some I-153's with a Bf 109F-2 in a co-op mission. I ran out of ammo but I managed to down 3-4 I-153's...none of them were spectacular flaming ruins...they were just damaged beyond usefulness and the eventually crashed.

Slippery target is the big thing...but land some hits and they do go up. They aren't fast at all...if problem is that their guns have good range. So you need to make sure you're going fast enough and presenting a hard target to hit to escape.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

masamainio
02-17-2004, 08:00 AM
This is what Hans Wind had to say about I-153 when Finns were flying in Brewster, Morane 406 and Fiat G50:

"If the enemy plane is an I-16 or I-153, use the following tactics. Initially climb about 500 meters higher than the enemy, because our planes are faster. During the approach stay right behind the enemy, because visibility to the rear sides is good from both planes. The approach speed can be quite high. Just before reaching shooting distance, slip to one side, so you'll be able to shoot him slightly from the side. When shooting from dead 6 o'clock of these planes, the pilot armour has often absorbed even the 12.7 mm bullets. (For example W.O. Alho shot his guns empty at a Chaika's pilot armour over the Seiskari Island without any effect. The fuselage skin behind the armour was ripped apart, but the plane didn't go down.) You have to aim well from the start, because the I-16 and Chaika are so manoeuvrable that you can't hit them after they have seen you approach."

Complete article at Virtualpilots site

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-CaptainWindsAirCombatTacticsLecture.html

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/kuvat/ww2history-win01s.jpg

Cossack13
02-17-2004, 08:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike_espo:
Just shot down an I-153 with a E-7 online. Took all of my ammo to do it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hit the engine with MG fire from an angle, either from the side or below, and they'll light up very quickly.

The last thing you want to do is dump your ammo into one from the 6 o'clock position!

http://www.tolwyn.com/~cossack/White13.gif
Ok, I'm giving the Alienware
just one more chance!

Snoop_Baron
02-17-2004, 09:05 AM
Exactly masamainio. It's all about the aim. I host an "Old School" mission on my server with I-153, P11, and HurriMkI so I get to fly the I-153 a lot. If you don't aim carefully you can unload all your amo into one plane. I have been in an I-153 with no ailerons and limp all the way home while someone unloaded all his amo into my dead six more than a few times. But if you aim well you can take down 3-4 I-153s in combat situations before running out of amo and I'm sure even more if they are all sitting ducks. The key is good aim and not hitting from dead six. This is with machine guns, with cannons it is even easier. Also when you think you are hitting you might not be. The I-153 is small and very manuverable. Next time you are amazed by it's toughness record a track and play it back from the enemy perspective and see what really happened.

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

BaldieJr
02-17-2004, 09:24 AM
Some good posts here.

I agree with most: You have to _AIM_ when shooting an I-153. Spray and pray doesn't cut it.

Best is from high. Anything else is wasting ammo. If you like gambling, head-on might work, but I wouldn't recomend it. Golden BB's come from the nose of the gull!

If you attack and aren't hauling butt, you're going to get tagged. The light-maching guns on the I-153 make shooting easy as there is hardly any bullet drop. So, make sure you hit, hit hard, or climb out of there fast.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

masamainio
02-17-2004, 09:29 AM
Snoop_Baron

Where's your server? Sounds interesting.....

http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/Media/i16type10.gif

clint-ruin
02-17-2004, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Clint! The wings are not seperate targets??? With all the detail of the models, the seperately traced bullets that have their own impact angles and velocities relative to the target and the damage doesn't occur where the hit is made??? Even the EAW hit bubbles were specific to parts of the planes and with the tweak program those could be made pretty small indeed!

I wonder where wing damage on the FW-190's is also getting to if what you say is true? Some people are moving too fast with upgrades and deadlines to connect all the dots? That's the trouble with loads of detail, there's loads of detail to get right or even done at all!


Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry if the post wasn't clear, but what I thought I said was, that each of the wings does have its own seperate damage model.

But a hit on the fuselage does not damage the top left wing. A hit on the rudder does not damage the bottom right wing. A hit on the engine does not damage the elevator.

If you attack an I-153 with, say, a 109E7, and your MGs hit the fuselage, your left MGFF hits the left top wing, and the right MGFF hits the bottom right wing .. even though the I-153 has been hit by 2 cannon rounds and a bunch of MGs, it's possible for each part of the damage model to withstand those impacts.

Get both MGFFs to hit on the same wing, or the engine, or whatever, and the I-153 is a gonner.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Snoop_Baron
02-17-2004, 12:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by masamainio:
Snoop_Baron

Where's your server? Sounds interesting.....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's up on hypper lobby as close to 24/7 as I can get it. You will see it listed as :FI:SnoopBaron
You can also view your player stats for the server here:

www.snoopbaron.com/aircombat/ (http://www.snoopbaron.com/aircombat/)

They are updated ~5-15mins by a script on the server

The server has uses FBDaemon to cycle through 4 missions each time one team wins. The first mission is the "Old School" mission I talked about. If the mission is not currently playing you can force the server to cycle by having atleast half the players on the server enter &lt;vote&lt;nextmap. If you are by yourself then all it takes is you.

You'll usualy find some FI guys on it around this time. I just checked and there was a group there right now. Also some of our guys like to post pictures from our flights at www.fighting-irish.org (http://www.fighting-irish.org)

s!

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
02-17-2004, 01:55 PM
ankanor - remove that girl from your sig - no-way she likes me that much and it's scrambling my focal setting http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

It's true these early birds don't catch fire like they should - I-153 is difficult to kill with mgs - cannons make short work of it. Barring flammage though they would be kind of transparent to hits - being fabric covered and all. Generally speaking I find myself getting much closer in all planes before I shoot - exception is when you are flying something with .50s against K4s that instist on staying high and mighty - then you are better off with long convergence so you can chip away at them out near 1k away. far convergence is fine anyway for cowl mounted guns. I keep cannons at 150 meters however.

masamainio
02-17-2004, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snoop_Baron:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by masamainio:
Snoop_Baron

Where's your server? Sounds interesting.....
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's up on hypper lobby as close to 24/7 as I can get it. You will see it listed as :FI:SnoopBaron
You can also view your player stats for the server here:

http://www.snoopbaron.com/aircombat/

They are updated ~5-15mins by a script on the server

The server has uses FBDaemon to cycle through 4 missions each time one team wins. The first mission is the "Old School" mission I talked about. If the mission is not currently playing you can force the server to cycle by having atleast half the players on the server enter &lt;vote&lt;nextmap. If you are by yourself then all it takes is you.

You'll usualy find some FI guys on it around this time. I just checked and there was a group there right now. Also some of our guys like to post pictures from our flights at http://www.fighting-irish.org

s!

:FI:Snoop Baron
http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks for the info. I'll try next time online.

Crap planes rule!

LEXX_Luthor
02-18-2004, 12:42 AM
That's another thing. I wonder how the Old P11 will stack up with the New Biplanes.


http://www.il2skins.com/skins/screenshots/3498.jpg

by Smith (made only one skin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif )
---&gt; http://www.il2skins.com/?action=display&skinid=3498


_____________
Luftwhiners cry for Bf109-G-17z525-subsection-14-paragraph-6b http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Real Fans of the Luftwaffe cry for Bf109-B, C, or D ( any version please! ) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

.

WWMaxGunz
02-19-2004, 12:42 AM
Just remember that convergence controls gun elevation. If you're aiming longer than convergence your shots will be low compared to the crosshairs and vice-versa with close in. This applies more to slower rounds and maybe the main advantage with Russian planes, thier shots are closer to the crosshairs in a wider range window.


Neal

WUAF_Badsight
02-19-2004, 03:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:


Not forgetting that it's in many ways more advanced than many monoplanes of the era. I-152, the Me262 of the 30s? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hole in one Clint

out of all the Biplanes comming to FB this one is the absolute bestest of the best if we are talking Dogfighting

WUAF_Badsight
02-19-2004, 03:21 AM
thing is the P-11 is stronger than the I-153 in its body

to make those planes go down you need :

1) long burst on one part of the plane to starta fire (i mean a LONG burst)

2) hit the motor & wait for the thing to drop with a cooked motor

fuel leaks sometimes stop on both planes

Pilot Kill on both planes is hard to acheive (especially when you consider their pilots are exposed to the outside breeze)