PDA

View Full Version : Why Desmond shouldn't have had the Bleeding Effect cured (SPOILERS)



Farlander1991
03-01-2013, 04:36 AM
Hey. So, some of you may know that I'm one of those people who was extremely intrigued by the Bleeding Effect, and... very disappointed by the fact that it's pretty much just cured in Revelations. I always thought that the Bleeding Effect is going to be this HUGE obstacle for Desmond, something he's going to have a hard time overcoming (and I always thought that Daniel Cross from the comics was like a foreshadowing of what's going to happen to Desmond), but, alas. Even though I was disappointed, I didn't think of it as a huge loss... until today... An idea of what the AC3 final sequences could look like, that would require Desmond to have the Bleeding Effect (and also some neat system of pre-loading and keeping in the memory assets from different time-periods for switching... most of which probably would be done in cutscenes since that's a good way to hide some of the loading... but, yeah, technically speaking, it would be kinda a challenge).

I just randomly noticed that Desmond's infiltration to Abstergo and Connor's infiltration into Fort George have a lot of similarities structurally speaking... so... here's what got into my mind.

(Keep in mind that it's only a general concept, and it would take quite a lot of planning to figure out how to switch between modern day/past day)
1. When we infiltrate Abstergo as Desmond, at certain points we switch between him and Connor infiltrating Fort George. The Bleeding Effect kicks in and is quite a nuisance.
2. Then we get to Daniel/Haytham, and have a boss fight between those two. Fight with Haytham, listen to the conversations, then bam. Switch to Daniel/Desmond, fight in the Animus room... bam. Switch to Connor/Haytham. Since both battles take place at a closed environment, it wouldn't be too hard to keep assets for both periods in the console memory and do switches on the fly, without 'cutscene cover' or loading screens. Have Desmond and Daniel randomly transform into Connor/Haytham and back again, some cool effects.
3. We can't really have two meaningful death scenes, sadly, so Daniel's (who doesn't have a meaningful death scene in the game anyway) is sacrificed in favour of Haytham's. Connor kills Haytham, we have a conversation, Connor says 'goodbye father'... And then we see the 'inter-sequence' section where Connor prepares for war with Charles Lee. Puts on war paint, and then puts on his robes.
4. After that we switch back to Desmond. Whose hands are in blood. And he has painted on his face with that blood. And also got Daniel's coat on. The very creepy disturbing implication is that Desmond used Daniel's blood as war paint and then got his coat and put it on as a robe. It's really disturbing, but that's the point.
5. So, next, we go to hunt Charles Lee/Vidic. Now, I'm not sure what to do with the Apple, but for the sake of what's happening here, Desmond doesn't fight Vidic (as Connor doesn't fight Lee), and Vidic gets the Apple. However, Vidic can't control Desmond with the Apple because Des is too into the Bleeding Effect, he thinks Charles Lee is talking to him (heck, we can have Charles Lee 'I will destroy you' speech told to Desmond in the Animus room... or something like that...)
6. Now, I'm actually not sure what happens next and inbetween, BUT...
7. Eventually we get to chasing Vidic/Lee. Now, you can say that Vidic's old... but that's not the first old spry bugger we've seen in AC, plus he's in Abstergo with lots of doors and stuff (and he knows it really well, so Desmond has too circle around). There could be lots of cool effects for Bleeding Effect, like, once again, for example (which doesn't require actually transforming surroundings, but just general map design... maybe that would be a way to do most of this thing), we run in the corridor after Vidic, as Desmond. Then suddenly Vidic transforms into Charles Lee, and Desmond transforms into Connor, and they run in Abstergo. Than after passing one door, the whole corridors are on fire. For some reason. Then passing another door, we're actually in the wharf in the burning ship under construction. Stuff like that. Maybe somehow use effects from the refresher course level, those were pretty cool.
8. Again, I would sacrifice Vidic's death scene in favour of Connor killing Lee... because that scene is just too awesome. We can have a cutscene where Desmond enters a room with wounded Vidic, and then they transform into Connor/Lee. Connor takes the amulet, and then we transform into Desmond holding the Apple (implying that Desmond took it back from Vidic).

Maybe it's just me, but personally, after thinking about this more and more, and fleshing things out in my mind more... I would LOVE to play something like that. And, yeah, it doesn't necessarily have to be 'shifting environments' a lot of the time, it can be just a psychodelic level design. And, generally speaking, it would've been quite a memorable ending sequence.

And... it would give more emotion to Desmond's sacrifice, I think. I mean... what do you do with your life when you use a dead person's blood as war paint and then take his coat? That's just ****ing messed up. Desmond's mind is absolutely broken, especially by the end of the game (where he practically embodies Connor). Maybe Desmond even has sort of a death wish now, like Subject 16, but he needs to finish what he started to save the people.

So, yeah... I think getting rid of the Bleeding Effect was a HUGE mistake. A lot of really cool stuff could've been done with it in Desmond's sections.

pirate1802
03-01-2013, 04:48 AM
Aw ****.. I just got goosebumps reading that Fort George/Abstergo amalgamation. Good stuff dude :D

LoyalACFan
03-01-2013, 08:27 AM
This would be 1000000x better than the Abstergo mission in its current state. That sequence was the biggest disappointment in the entire franchise. Vidic went out like a frickin punk.

inferno33222
09-03-2013, 03:55 AM
I was thinking about this and came up with something similar. The whole game Desmond is getting more and more insane, seeing things from his ancestors, mostly Connor, but maybe a bit of Altair and Ezio as well.

The game builds up Cross as the villain that Desmond hates in the same way that Connor hates Lee, even though Haytham is the Grandmaster. Then at one point Desmond could be kicking the **** out of Vidic and yell "GIVE ME CROSS!" in the same way Connor yells "GIVE ME LEE!" at his dad.

Or maybe he's killing Cross and he yells "Give me Vidic" and we keep Cross as more of a secondary character...

I don't know, I'm not a writer, but I thought the Bleeding Effect had HUGE potential when I played AC1 back in 2007, especially after seeing the ending.

Jexx21
09-03-2013, 04:26 AM
The game doesn't build up Cross as a Lee-type villain at all.

BigredInfinity
02-11-2014, 01:01 PM
dude, that is much like the Comic with Daniel
I was thinking about this and came up with something similar. The whole game Desmond is getting more and more insane, seeing things from his ancestors, mostly Connor, but maybe a bit of Altair and Ezio as well.

The game builds up Cross as the villain that Desmond hates in the same way that Connor hates Lee, even though Haytham is the Grandmaster. Then at one point Desmond could be kicking the **** out of Vidic and yell "GIVE ME CROSS!" in the same way Connor yells "GIVE ME LEE!" at his dad.

Or maybe he's killing Cross and he yells "Give me Vidic" and we keep Cross as more of a secondary character...

I don't know, I'm not a writer, but I thought the Bleeding Effect had HUGE potential when I played AC1 back in 2007, especially after seeing the ending.

Alphacos007
02-12-2014, 01:01 AM
Awesome post right there. I love the modern day stuff but adding that bleeding effect mix would make it much much better.

SixKeys
02-12-2014, 01:39 AM
This actually sounds like a pretty cool idea. Not sure about the perspective/surroundings changing so often as it could get pretty jarring, but I like the gist. The Bleeding Effect really did have such potential for Desmond.

Fatal-Feit
02-12-2014, 02:16 AM
Some of these ideas really should influence future titles. The bleeding effect was something really cool in the series that should have never left. I actually wanted to see some kind of bleeding effect in first-person modern day in AC:IV. It would have been nice to have eagle vision to play a role in hacking or finding more secrets in the office, haha.

AdamPearce
02-12-2014, 02:22 AM
Am I the only one thinking ACRevelations totally screwed up the whole modern-day part and that it was never meant to exist in the first place ? That would explain a lot of things.

LoyalACFan
02-12-2014, 02:36 AM
Am I the only one thinking ACRevelations totally screwed up the whole modern-day part and that it was never meant to exist in the first place ? That would explain a lot of things.

On the contrary, I think AC3 is the one that buggered modern day. My interest in Desmond's story was flagging before ACR even came out, but that was actually the only game that made me care about him in the slightest. Though Clay really stole the show. Poor bastard. Though I will concede, the block puzzle crap didn't belong in an AC game. Those flashback sequences could have been handled differently.

Will_Lucky
02-12-2014, 03:42 AM
Cross was just awful generally as a villain, especially compared with the comics which built him up so much. Actually I tend to prefer the meeting between them as perferable to the scenerio described. Desmond a man who has conquered the bleeding effect is able to stay focused on the mission while utilizing the abilities of his ancestors. And then you have Cross, a man who let the Bleeding Effect conquer him and at the behest of one of his ancestors ran away from his objective.

LoyalACFan
02-12-2014, 04:09 AM
Cross was just awful generally as a villain, especially compared with the comics which built him up so much. Actually I tend to prefer the meeting between them as perferable to the scenerio described. Desmond a man who has conquered the bleeding effect is able to stay focused on the mission while utilizing the abilities of his ancestors. And then you have Cross, a man who let the Bleeding Effect conquer him and at the behest of one of his ancestors ran away from his objective.

Except it didn't make Desmond look like a badass who was able to conquer the Bleeding Effect, it actually made him look like a wimp in comparison to Cross. Desmond was perilously close to becoming as lost as Daniel was, but Daniel had spent YEARS in the Animus, while Desmond had clocked in what, like two months by that point?

Will_Lucky
02-12-2014, 04:29 AM
Except it didn't make Desmond look like a badass who was able to conquer the Bleeding Effect, it actually made him look like a wimp in comparison to Cross. Desmond was perilously close to becoming as lost as Daniel was, but Daniel had spent YEARS in the Animus, while Desmond had clocked in what, like two months by that point?

Desmond did in two months what Cross couldn't in two decades :p.

LoyalACFan
02-12-2014, 04:33 AM
Desmond did in two months what Cross couldn't in two decades :p.

But Cross had about 10,000x more Animus exposure :rolleyes:

AdamPearce
02-12-2014, 05:01 AM
On the contrary, I think AC3 is the one that buggered modern day. My interest in Desmond's story was flagging before ACR even came out, but that was actually the only game that made me care about him in the slightest. Though Clay really stole the show. Poor bastard. Though I will concede, the block puzzle crap didn't belong in an AC game. Those flashback sequences could have been handled differently.

Well that's my point, AC3 was screwed up because of ACR. Why ? because ACR was suppose to bring all the answers for Desmond to complete his final journey. Unfortunately, all those information were in the DLC. If the events of The Lost Archive would've been in the final game, everything would've been set down for AC3 to really kick in. BUT, it wasn't, so all the question trigerred for like 3 games had to be explained really briefly (the sentence with Desmond talking about Lucy and Space Wizards) when it should've been seen in-dept with Revelations.

Because let's face it, ACR added NOTHING to the plot. The location of the Temple ? ACB's DLC. Altair's Apple ? Abstergo emails. Toba apocalypse ? ACII's ending. All the legit infos were in the DLC (Lucy's betreyal, Juno's manipulation, Clay's evolution) but even the DLC brought up some BS. Like the fact that Rebecca knew him. That was never mention in the games, only Lucy had regrets about it. And later in AC3 when Desmond interrupts her by saying 'His name was Clay', it doesn't make any sense, why would Rebecca call him like that if they were working together for months ? And Clay was working with the Assassins ? C'mon, why do that ? It's pointless. S16 sould've always been and stayed Subject 16, he didn't need a name or a story or all this father issues sh*t. He was just that mystery men we'll never know about, let to the imagination of the player, that was the point of not giving him a face in ACB, only a disformed shape, so he could be anyone. But noooo, it's too complicated to create a mysterious character, they had to put an image on his face...and the worst is that it doesn't fit the character AT ALL ! S16 was a freak, his mind was completely destroyed by the bleeding effect. He did not know who he was anymore or where he lived, or even if he was living. And then we show that clear minded guy who can have normal discussion about life and explain the Animus structure like it's a 5 pieces puzzle.

How to destroy a good character by Ubisoft: Give an extremely revelant & developed character to a script writer who never worked on the plot and that isn't comfortable with it !

AdamPearce
02-12-2014, 05:05 AM
Except it didn't make Desmond look like a badass who was able to conquer the Bleeding Effect, it actually made him look like a wimp in comparison to Cross. Desmond was perilously close to becoming as lost as Daniel was, but Daniel had spent YEARS in the Animus, while Desmond had clocked in what, like two months by that point?

yes but Desmond haves Precursor genes so the Bleeding Effect is much much more smooth that it ever was with Cross, that's how Desmond got all of Ezio's skills.

Farlander1991
02-12-2014, 08:34 AM
Oh look, my thread is revived and active! :D

...

Hm. Now that I read that first post again, that does still seem like a generally speaking pretty cool idea :D

SixKeys
02-12-2014, 10:48 AM
Well that's my point, AC3 was screwed up because of ACR. Why ? because ACR was suppose to bring all the answers for Desmond to complete his final journey. Unfortunately, all those information were in the DLC. If the events of The Lost Archive would've been in the final game, everything would've been set down for AC3 to really kick in. BUT, it wasn't, so all the question trigerred for like 3 games had to be explained really briefly (the sentence with Desmond talking about Lucy and Space Wizards) when it should've been seen in-dept with Revelations.

Because let's face it, ACR added NOTHING to the plot. The location of the Temple ? ACB's DLC. Altair's Apple ? Abstergo emails. Toba apocalypse ? ACII's ending. All the legit infos were in the DLC (Lucy's betreyal, Juno's manipulation, Clay's evolution) but even the DLC brought up some BS. Like the fact that Rebecca knew him. That was never mention in the games, only Lucy had regrets about it. And later in AC3 when Desmond interrupts her by saying 'His name was Clay', it doesn't make any sense, why would Rebecca call him like that if they were working together for months ? And Clay was working with the Assassins ? C'mon, why do that ? It's pointless. S16 sould've always been and stayed Subject 16, he didn't need a name or a story or all this father issues sh*t. He was just that mystery men we'll never know about, let to the imagination of the player, that was the point of not giving him a face in ACB, only a disformed shape, so he could be anyone. But noooo, it's too complicated to create a mysterious character, they had to put an image on his face...and the worst is that it doesn't fit the character AT ALL ! S16 was a freak, his mind was completely destroyed by the bleeding effect. He did not know who he was anymore or where he lived, or even if he was living. And then we show that clear minded guy who can have normal discussion about life and explain the Animus structure like it's a 5 pieces puzzle.

How to destroy a good character by Ubisoft: Give an extremely revelant & developed character to a script writer who never worked on the plot and that isn't comfortable with it !

^ This.

dbzk1999
02-12-2014, 02:55 PM
Well that's my point, AC3 was screwed up because of ACR. Why ? because ACR was suppose to bring all the answers for Desmond to complete his final journey. Unfortunately, all those information were in the DLC. If the events of The Lost Archive would've been in the final game, everything would've been set down for AC3 to really kick in. BUT, it wasn't, so all the question trigerred for like 3 games had to be explained really briefly (the sentence with Desmond talking about Lucy and Space Wizards) when it should've been seen in-dept with Revelations.

Because let's face it, ACR added NOTHING to the plot. The location of the Temple ? ACB's DLC. Altair's Apple ? Abstergo emails. Toba apocalypse ? ACII's ending. All the legit infos were in the DLC (Lucy's betreyal, Juno's manipulation, Clay's evolution) but even the DLC brought up some BS. Like the fact that Rebecca knew him. That was never mention in the games, only Lucy had regrets about it. And later in AC3 when Desmond interrupts her by saying 'His name was Clay', it doesn't make any sense, why would Rebecca call him like that if they were working together for months ? And Clay was working with the Assassins ? C'mon, why do that ? It's pointless. S16 sould've always been and stayed Subject 16, he didn't need a name or a story or all this father issues sh*t. He was just that mystery men we'll never know about, let to the imagination of the player, that was the point of not giving him a face in ACB, only a disformed shape, so he could be anyone. But noooo, it's too complicated to create a mysterious character, they had to put an image on his face...and the worst is that it doesn't fit the character AT ALL ! S16 was a freak, his mind was completely destroyed by the bleeding effect. He did not know who he was anymore or where he lived, or even if he was living. And then we show that clear minded guy who can have normal discussion about life and explain the Animus structure like it's a 5 pieces puzzle.

How to destroy a good character by Ubisoft: Give an extremely revelant & developed character to a script writer who never worked on the plot and that isn't comfortable with it !

But like clay said that wasn't really him that went insane it's just pretty much an ai construct
Besides that agree with everything else

dxsxhxcx
02-13-2014, 01:58 PM
I always thought the Bleeding Effect had a lot of potential (story and gameplay wise), but IMO just like the modern days as a whole, it was just another thing that stayed in the way of the yearly releases and that's why it was "magically" cured in ACR...

Ureh
02-13-2014, 06:07 PM
50/50... I thought the Bleeding Effect had a lot of potential like many have said, but they wrapped it up pretty well too with the whole "explore your ancestors' memories until they don't have anything to show you anymore." I guess it was a bit too convenient... but still kinda felt satisfying... :nonchalance::p