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View Full Version : Grand Temple in TOKW *Spoilers*



Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 02:20 PM
So I just went there and the inner cave was blocked by rocks...Why would they block it if it had no importance ? I`m pretty sure it may prove to be something later...

I know...I know...I may be over thinking, but hey..Come on..

DisbandedBox359
02-20-2013, 02:23 PM
interesting didn't know you could go there in tokw, at first i thought the cave he woke up in was the grand temple but was disappointed when it wasnt

LightRey
02-20-2013, 02:26 PM
Interesting. That's a little odd. Maybe it's not supposed to exist in this reality?

Megas_Doux
02-20-2013, 02:30 PM
Interesting

I also really wonder about Haytham´s role in all this mess, this very good mess haha. May be it was something "he" did that provoked all of this, after all; Why would Zio be alive if "that" event occurred after G washington burned the village????

I mean, she would still be dead....

RinoTheBouncer
02-20-2013, 02:39 PM
So I just went there and the inner cave was blocked by rocks...Why would they block it if it had no importance ? I`m pretty sure it may prove to be something later...

I know...I know...I may be over thinking, but hey..Come on..

Maybe nobody discovered it in this reality? I don't know but it's interesting indeed.

Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 02:43 PM
Another thing I discovered. There`s a few new sound effects inside. pretty eerie ones. weren't part of the main game...

I can`t describe the sounds exactly, but all I can say is that they`re creepy...

Megas_Doux
02-20-2013, 02:46 PM
Man this DLC is getting better and better!!!! And there are two more months to go in order to know its outcome :(

SixKeys
02-20-2013, 02:57 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Juno had something to do with all this alternate reality stuff. Maybe whatever she's doing in the modern world is causing ripples in reality or something. In any case, they wouldn't have bothered changing that part of the map for no good reason.

catkiller97
02-20-2013, 03:02 PM
M is detective :)

InfectedNation
02-20-2013, 03:58 PM
Just found this myself actually. Creeps me out, because it doesn't look like the temple door has been covered by rocks - it looks like the door doesn't exist whatsoever. Just a creepy wall of rock.

EnglishProdigy
02-20-2013, 04:31 PM
how do you go there again in tokw?

xboxauditore
02-20-2013, 08:06 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Juno had something to do with all this alternate reality stuff. Maybe whatever she's doing in the modern world is causing ripples in reality or something. In any case, they wouldn't have bothered changing that part of the map for no good reason.

That is a brilliant theory, That should be added if it isn't already part of the story.

Krayus Korianis
02-20-2013, 10:20 PM
how do you go there again in tokw?
Just go west from the burned down Mohawk village, keep to the ridge line and you can find it. Same as the main story game.

No door, no hole for an Apple of Eden. Just nothing but dirt and rock.

jamgamerforever
02-20-2013, 10:29 PM
I'm pretty certain this is a reality in which Juno didn't interfere - that's why Ratonhnhake:ton isn't an Assassin after all, he didn't enter the Crystal Ball.

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 10:31 PM
Yes!! i noticed the gate is missing in the cave too!!! :D

If that's intentional that means the Grand Temple didn't existed and Haytham mission in America was different!!!! If Forsaken is true then, Reginal Birch never killed Haytham's father for his journal and that means he couldn't have been Haytham's mentor later in life!!!

What do you guys think??

Do you think Haytham was an Assassin in this timeline??

Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 10:33 PM
Yes!! i noticed the gate is missing in the cave too!!! :D

If that's intentional that means the Grand Temple didn't existed and Haytham mission in America was different!!!! If Forsaken is true then, Reginal Birch never killed Haytham's father for his journal and that means he couldn't have been Haytham's mentor later in life!!!

What do you guys think??

You think Haytham was an Assassin in this timeline??
it is possible from the way Ziio speaks about him...

But I do not know what this has to do with the grand temple, I mean, alternate timeline does not mean the Temple itself does not exist....it is there, the cave is there, just the gate inside that`s blocked....and then there`s the sounds..

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 10:40 PM
it is possible from the way Ziio speaks about him...

But I do not know what this has to do with the grand temple, I mean, alternate timeline does not mean the Temple itself does not exist....it is there, the cave is there, just the gate inside that`s blocked....and then there`s the sounds..

Maybe this has to do with Minerva and "another path" after she saw what Desmond choosed at the end of AC3. :P

And..What sounds by the way??? :-/

Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 10:42 PM
Maybe this is all has to do with Minerva an "another path" after she saw what Desmond choosed at the end of AC3.
Same question, what does alternate timeline or choice or path have to do with the existence of the grand temple ? These choices only impact future events, not past ones, for example, Desmond choosing Minerva`s destiny does not erase the TWCB`s existence...

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 10:48 PM
Same question, what does alternate timeline or choice or path have to do with the existence of the grand temple ? These choices only impact future events, not past ones, for example, Desmond choosing Minerva`s destiny does not erase the TWCB`s existence...

Maybe she destroyed the Temple or blocked the entrance. All i know is that she talked through the nexus so she can still affect Connor's timeline from the past. :P

Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 10:53 PM
Maybe she destroyed the Temple or blocked the entrance. All i know is that she talked through the nexus so she can still affect Connor's timeline from the past. :P
She WAS in the past when she talked to Connor. She existed inside the Temple and used the Nexus to speak to Connor from there...She did not influence the past, just the future and how can Juno destroy it ?? She`s not powerful xD

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 10:53 PM
You know, seeing the intro video from this DLC i would say that George Washington and Connor were trapped inside a Time Nexus too. But i wonder why Connor seems to be the only one who remember been in another timeline. :S

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 10:55 PM
She WAS in the past when she talked to Connor. She existed inside the Temple and used the Nexus to speak to Connor from there...She did not influence the past, just the future and how can Juno destroy it ?? She`s not powerful xD

I was talking about Minerva!!! :D

She is pissed off and needs her revenge too :P

Ok, maybe i didn't explained mysefl properly, im sorry english is not my native language. What i meant was that i thougth Minerva was changing somehow the timeline, by blocking/destroying the Temple entrance after seeing what Desmond choosed in the future. So she created an alternate timeline where there was no entrance or Temple and somehow she comunicated with Connor too when George Washington brougth the Apple to him. Maybe they entered a Time Nexus and everything changed around them.

TorQue1988
02-20-2013, 10:57 PM
Anyone figured out what's with the orange/brown orbs you can collect while loading? Could they have some importance in the next 2 episodes or just to give you something to do while waiting?

Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 10:59 PM
Anyone figured out what's with the orange/brown orbs you can collect while loading? Could they have some importance in the next 2 episodes or just to give you something to do while waiting?
That`s the Apple...


I was talking about Minerva!!! http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20120411.419/images/smilies/biggrin.png

She is pissed off and needs her revenge too :P

I`m pretty sure Minerva was cool with Humanity xD

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 11:27 PM
Ok, Assassin_M as fellow Assassin im going to elaborate my stupid theories just for you.

We see that George Washington meets Connor in the forest and that he showed Connor the apple. Then for some reason they are suddenly in another timeline, which possibly means that:

- The Apple is only showing them a possibility and is all some sort of a dream, and they still in the forest.
- They entered some sort of Time Nexus and became trapped inside the timeline.
-Maybe is Minerva messing with the past and it afected their present but somehow the Apple protected them from the effects, maybe only Connor, as he is the only one that seems to remember.
-Maybe im only being delusional :P
-Maybe is just another Abstergo Propaganda and nothing there is true
-If Connor is in another timeline, he obviously returned to our own as we are reviving his memories

And i need to think of more to post them

Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 11:32 PM
Ok, Assassin_M as fellow Assassin im going to elaborate my stupid theories just for you.

We see that George Washington meets Connor in the forest and that he showed Connor the apple. Then for some reason they are suddenly in another timeline, which possibly means that:

- The Apple is only showing them a possibility and is all some sort of a dream, and they still in the forest.
- They entered some sort of Time Nexus and became trapped inside the timeline.
-Maybe is Minerva messing with the past and it afected their present but somehow the Apple protected them from the effects, maybe only Connor, as he is the only one that seems to remember.
-Maybe im only being delusional :P
-Maybe is just another Abstergo Propaganda and nothing there is true
-If Connor is in another timeline, he obviously returned to our own as we are reviving his memories

And i need to think of more to post them
Nah they`re not stupid :P

I think it`s this. GW finds Apple, shows Apple to Connor, Something happens...I do not know what that may be, but something definitely takes the 2 of them into this weird place...where Connor retains his memories (Maybe because he has TWCB genes) while Washington ACTUALLY succumbs to the power in this timeline...so that man IS Washington, but we`ll probably save him by killing him in that timeline...

Regarding Minerva tampering with the past, I do not think this is likely, because they had no way of tampering with the past. Juno said it....They can only tamper with the Future...

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 11:40 PM
Regarding Minerva tampering with the past, I do not think this is likely, because they had no way of tampering with the past. Juno said it....They can only tamper with the Future...

But Connor present is Minerva's future!!!! She is in the past and she can see the future!!! =O

Assassin_M
02-20-2013, 11:43 PM
But Connor present is Minerva's future!!!! She is in the past and she can see the future!!! =O
Exactly, that`s what I said...They can see and influence the future, but not the past....They did it with Ezio, Connor and Desmond...

What you just said means we agree and you understand what I`m trying to say:D

RinoTheBouncer
02-20-2013, 11:52 PM
Exactly, that`s what I said...They can see and influence the future, but not the past....They did it with Ezio, Connor and Desmond...

What you just said means we agree and you understand what I`m trying to say:D

So what if the entire game until now is a vision of Minerva?

Assassin_Banana
02-20-2013, 11:55 PM
Exactly, that`s what I said...They can see and influence the future, but not the past....They did it with Ezio, Connor and Desmond...

What you just said means we agree and you understand what I`m trying to say:D

But as an alternate timeline Minevra is changing the future by changing Connor present which is also Minerva's future. She is in the past, thousands of years ago watching the future, which consist of all Desmond ancestors!! She saw Juno in Desmond's present, and decided to change that future by blocking the entrance to the Temple in her time and that made everything in Connor present change in this new timeline!! Maybe he will need to repair the timeline and return to ours!! :P

Have you forgotten Doc Emmet Brown classes???

JCearlyyears
02-21-2013, 12:15 AM
What happens if you collect the apples in the loading screen? And don't say anything funny!

xboxauditore
02-21-2013, 12:35 AM
What happens if you collect the apples in the loading screen? And don't say anything funny!

You keep the Doctor away.

DEALWITHIT.

Iamsosobad
02-21-2013, 05:36 AM
The whole tyranny thing has to be some kind of dream, I mean Connor got stabbed and shot 3 times in the chest at point blank and somehow survived? I know it's a video game, but if it wasn't a dream he definitely should've been dead.

MasterSimaYi
02-21-2013, 04:04 PM
The whole tyranny thing has to be some kind of dream, I mean Connor got stabbed and shot 3 times in the chest at point blank and somehow survived? I know it's a video game, but if it wasn't a dream he definitely should've been dead.

Some sort of dream, yes. It was already established in the main canon that George Washington had Apple of Eden #3 (and it was brought to the colonies by the Freemasons, really hope Ubisoft doesn't overlook this). The DLC supports this, at the very start of the DLC: image 1 (http://gyazo.com/72c6b32a2a4a280b1656473ed0e94e52) and image 2 (http://gyazo.com/b350af2c9d4fba9e7c8748737b20d0b8). There is some weird psychedelic sequence with the Apple activating while in Washington's hands, and then promptly shifts to Connor waking up in an alternate reality. It would kind of make that first scene with Connor, Washington and the Apple useless if the Apple did not cause Connor to wake up in this alternate reality.

I figure it is trying to show both Connor and Washington what will happen if Washington allows its power to corrupt him, but I wouldn't know why it would harbor such intentions. Washington definitely did not let go of this Apple after this, though, as it was later in the possession of other Presidents like Franklin D. Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy, surely passed down from President to President.

SixKeys
02-21-2013, 04:37 PM
I figure it is trying to show both Connor and Washington what will happen if Washington allows its power to corrupt him, but I wouldn't know why it would harbor such intentions. Washington definitely did not let go of this Apple after this, though, as it was later in the possession of other Presidents like Franklin D. Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy, surely passed down from President to President.

What bugs me about this theory is that it leaves so many things unexplained. If the Apple is simply showing Washington what would happen if he decided to use it for evil, why is Connor's mother alive in the alternate reality? What's the explanation for the crazy animal powers? You can't tell me the natives seriously knew about a tree whose sap could literally make you invisible. Why is Haytham dead and where are all the other characters from AC3? This all screams "fevered dream" rather than a proper alternate history, but the reason for either is still unclear.

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 04:50 PM
What bugs me about this theory is that it leaves so many things unexplained. If the Apple is simply showing Washington what would happen if he decided to use it for evil, why is Connor's mother alive in the alternate reality? What's the explanation for the crazy animal powers? You can't tell me the natives seriously knew about a tree whose sap could literally make you invisible. Why is Haytham dead and where are all the other characters from AC3? This all screams "fevered dream" rather than a proper alternate history, but the reason for either is still unclear.

Am I the only one here who understands what an alternative timeline means? :P If the Grand Temple is not there, it means everything in AC3 never happened!!! Haytham never looked out for the precursor site!!! His mission was different, and he should have met Ziio in different circumstances :-S
Connor is not in a dream, he is in ALTERNATE TIMELINE!!

:P OK, don't listen to me

SixKeys
02-21-2013, 04:55 PM
Am I the only one here who understands what an alternative timeline means? :P If the Grand Temple is not there, it means everything in AC3 never happened!!! Haytham never looked out for the precursor site!!! His mission was different, and he should have met Ziio in different circumstances :-S
Connor is not in a dream, he is in ALTERNATE TIMELINE!!

:P OK, don't listen to me

Why would Haytham even be in America if not to look for the Temple? Why would the Temple not be there in the first place? That's where Juno has been trapped for centuries, it can't just suddenly disappear. If this is an alternate timeline, it should only affect Connor's life, but the Temple has always been there regardless of the events of AC3.

And this still doesn't explain the wolf powers. The only sort of acceptable explanation for invisibility powers would be a Piece of Eden, but I highly doubt that a tree counts as one. Especially since we never saw it in the main game.

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 05:14 PM
Why would Haytham even be in America if not to look for the Temple? Why would the Temple not be there in the first place? That's where Juno has been trapped for centuries, it can't just suddenly disappear. If this is an alternate timeline, it should only affect Connor's life, but the Temple has always been there regardless of the events of AC3.

And this still doesn't explain the wolf powers. The only sort of acceptable explanation for invisibility powers would be a Piece of Eden, but I highly doubt that a tree counts as one. Especially since we never saw it in the main game.

Ok, Im going to explain this one more time:

If you go to the cave in this new DLC where is supposed to be the entrance to the Temple, you can see is blocked and that there is no door in there, no hole for the apple, no signs of the First Civilization, nothing. That means the possibility of this:

-The entrance is blocked because many, many years ago BEFORE Connor, Haytham, even the Natives in there had someone ( maybe Minerva) blocking it, and it could have happened in a past very far away from the events of AC3, which is consistent to an alternative timeline. If that happened it means, for the people how have read Forsaken book this:

-That Reginal Birch never killed Haytham's father for his journal, which described the location of the Grand Temple. Which means that Haytham probably never became a Templar because his father never died, he most have been an Assassin and his mission to America was different. Maybe (guessing here) he was send to get the staff or the Apple in America and then he met Ziio and fall for her like in AC3.

-As for the tree, is obvious that it has been in there for many centuries before the colonists arrived to America, and its powers are in accordance to Native American religion and myths, so the tree is there supplanting the Grand Temple. Maybe was put in there by the same person that destroyed the Temple's entrance who knows, it obviously not a common willow. Maybe genetically modified by someone of the First Civilitation and it gives whoever drinks it's tea powers.


Ok, guys just proved to you how nerdy I can be. :P

MasterSimaYi
02-21-2013, 05:35 PM
What bugs me about this theory is that it leaves so many things unexplained. If the Apple is simply showing Washington what would happen if he decided to use it for evil, why is Connor's mother alive in the alternate reality? What's the explanation for the crazy animal powers? You can't tell me the natives seriously knew about a tree whose sap could literally make you invisible. Why is Haytham dead and where are all the other characters from AC3? This all screams "fevered dream" rather than a proper alternate history, but the reason for either is still unclear.

Well, it's hardly a theory, just what I figure is going on based on what we have seen in the first episode. If there's anything that comes to mind in regards to those questions it would be that the Apple triggered a dream-like state in Connor, and Kaniehtí:io and the Great Willow are just parts of Connor's own imagination.

But then again, Project Legacy also showed that the Golem of Prague really existed...

SixKeys
02-21-2013, 05:37 PM
Ok, Im going to explain this one more time:

If you go to the cave in this new DLC where is supposed to be the entrance to the Temple, you can see is blocked and that there is no door in there, no hole for the apple, no signs of the First Civilization, nothing. That means the possibility of this:

-The entrance is blocked because many, many years ago BEFORE Connor, Haytham, even the Natives in there has someone ( maybe Minerva) blocking it, and it could have happened in a past very far away from the events of AC3, which is consistent to an alternative timeline. If that happened it means, for the people how have read Forsaken book this:

Key words being "COULD have" and "IF". We don't know that any of this is true, we can only speculate. Hopefully we'll get an explanation before the end, but before we do, your theory remains just a theory. Just because it COULD explain the events in a way that makes sense doesn't mean that's how alternate timelines actually work. It's fine to come up with your own theories about how things could have happened, but don't try to claim that if I don't think those theories make sense that I just don't understand the concept of an alternate timeline.


-As for the tree, is obvious that it has been in there for many centuries before the colonists arrived to America, and its powers are in accordance to Native American religion and myths, so the tree is there supplanting the Grand Temple. Maybe was put in there by the same person that destroyed the Temple's entrance who knows, it obviously not a common willow. Maybe genetically modified by someone of the First Civilitation and it gives whoever drinks it's tea powers.

To me, the tree needs to have a proper scientific (or at least pseudo-scientific, like the PoEs) explanation. You can't just say something is consistent with native American spiritual beliefs and therefore it's realistically possible for a person to literally turn invisible. That's just silly.

About the possibility of genetic modification, all the First Civ members had been dead for centuries before the events of AC3. Juno and Minerva only have some sort of non-physical bodies which have been trapped in the Grand Temple since before they delivered their messages to Ezio in the 15th century. If what you're saying is true and in this timeline the Temple never existed, then all the events from the Ezio trilogy also never happened (at least not in the way we saw). Which is possible, I suppose, but that would be a heck of a lot to explain in just two more short episodes.

SixKeys
02-21-2013, 05:41 PM
Well, it's hardly a theory, just what I figure is going on based on what we have seen in the first episode. If there's anything that comes to mind in regards to those questions it would be that the Apple triggered a dream-like state in Connor, and Kaniehtí:io and the Great Willow are just parts of Connor's own imagination.


This is my theory. Something must have happened between Connor and Washington while Washington was holding the Apple, as shown in the pics you posted, which knocked Connor unconscious and sent him into a dream mostly comprised of his own memories and secret wishes (his mother being alive, being powerful enough to defeat any opponent). Not sure why the Apple would do that or what Washington has to do with all this, but I'm still thinking this is all a dream rather than a true alternate reality.

andreja110s
02-21-2013, 06:19 PM
This is my theory. Something must have happened between Connor and Washington while Washington was holding the Apple, as shown in the pics you posted, which knocked Connor unconscious and sent him into a dream mostly comprised of his own memories and secret wishes (his mother being alive, being powerful enough to defeat any opponent). Not sure why the Apple would do that or what Washington has to do with all this, but I'm still thinking this is all a dream rather than a true alternate reality.

I think all these things are the Apple´s fault- his mother being alive, the Willow tree, Connor´s powers... These are all visions made by the Apple. Like Al Mualim said to Altair: ˝The water never became wine˝- the people tasted and saw the wine, but all along it was just water. And you saw what Al Mualim did to the people of Masyaf- they all acted... weird. Maybe everybody is just having these visions, Washington acting like that because of the Apple?

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 07:24 PM
Key words being "COULD have" and "IF". We don't know that any of this is true, we can only speculate. Hopefully we'll get an explanation before the end, but before we do, your theory remains just a theory. Just because it COULD explain the events in a way that makes sense doesn't mean that's how alternate timelines actually work. It's fine to come up with your own theories about how things could have happened, but don't try to claim that if I don't think those theories make sense that I just don't understand the concept of an alternate timeline.

:P Sorry about that, I didn't mean you specificly I was talking in general because I already posted other theories that it could also be a dream, but is unlikely. I'm basing my ideas in what the Art Director of the DLC said. And he said that Connor have to choose between staying in this alternative timeline and ours. And they treated this DCL as an ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE. XD

And I was joking by the way. I didn't mean it seriously :P


To me, the tree needs to have a proper scientific (or at least pseudo-scientific, like the PoEs) explanation. You can't just say something is consistent with native American spiritual beliefs and therefore it's realistically possible for a person to literally turn invisible. That's just silly.

Well, everything in AC is silly XD. And that was only an idea, of course I really don't know!!! I'll give you another dumb one: NANO TECHNOLOGY INSIDE THE TREE THAT PASSES TO CONNOR :D


About the possibility of genetic modification, all the First Civ members had been dead for centuries before the events of AC3. Juno and Minerva only have some sort of non-physical bodies which have been trapped in the Grand Temple since before they delivered their messages to Ezio in the 15th century. If what you're saying is true and in this timeline the Temple never existed, then all the events from the Ezio trilogy also never happened (at least not in the way we saw). Which is possible, I suppose, but that would be a heck of a lot to explain in just two more short episodes.

No, possibly a few survived the catastrophe like many humans, but in time they died, they couldn't have just vanished, because Minerva found the way to save the world AFTER the disaster that killed her people. And changing Ezio history, Why not? After all this is AN ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE :D

Also, only Juno was trapped inside the temple (this is only guessing, ok?) and Minerva was using a device to see the future, same one or of a different kind like the one Connor used in AC3: the Cristal Ball. The natives used the device to speak to people from the past, like Juno. So, Minerva most have been using a similar device to speak to Desmond from the past at the end of AC3, as Juno was surprised to see her in there.

So my idea of things is that after seeing what happened in Desmond time she decided to block the Temple entrance so that Juno could never be released. Therefore changing everything of what happened in this ALTERNATIVE TIMELINE :D

But of course, as you and many in here pointed out that doesn't mean I'm right :( . Everyone here has the right to tell their own theories about it and I like to read other people opinions. ;D We certainly don't know what is this DLC trying to tell us, yet. ;)

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 07:52 PM
I think all these things are the Apple´s fault- his mother being alive, the Willow tree, Connor´s powers... These are all visions made by the Apple. Like Al Mualim said to Altair: ˝The water never became wine˝- the people tasted and saw the wine, but all along it was just water. And you saw what Al Mualim did to the people of Masyaf- they all acted... weird. Maybe everybody is just having these visions, Washington acting like that because of the Apple?

I like that idea. Yes, the Apple is a weapon of illusions as it was in AC1. Maybe everything of what happens in the DLC is a confrontation between Connor and Washington minds :S. Maybe this is why we don't see the temple in the DLC because Connor never actually visited the cave in AC3 and never knew that the amulet was a key!!!

d4st4n96
02-21-2013, 08:16 PM
(o.O) I really dunno....
This..is..just...WEIRD....

SixKeys
02-21-2013, 08:32 PM
Maybe this is why we don't see the temple in the DLC because Connor never actually visited the cave in AC3 and never knew that the amulet was a key!!!

If that was the case, then it shouldn't be possible to find the cave in the main game, but it is. The cave exists whether or not Connor knows what it's for. There must be a reason why they went out of their way to cover it up in the DLC.

Assassin_M
02-21-2013, 08:37 PM
The cave cannot not exist. Connor never visited it in AC III and he never knew the amulet was a key. What you`re going on are assumptions, because you`re, again, assuming this is an alternate timeline. We still have no confirmation of what we`re seeing. is it a dream ? alternate reality ? no one knows..

The Cave being blocked there has an explanation and I`m assuming it`ll play into the next DLCs and no it`s not that Minerva blocked it, because that has no base whatsoever...

infamous_ezio
02-21-2013, 08:38 PM
I'm 99% sure that Connor is having a lucid dream. 2 reasons..

1: he seems to be in full control of his actions: When i say this I mean when you have a lucid dream, you are aware that you are dreaming, in this case, connor has full control over his conciousness, he's thinking ok.. wtf all these events are wrong, and not how i remember it.
2: We collect Lucid artefacts.. I think the name lucid speaks for itself.. but hey can't wait to see how these events unfold :)

There's my 2 cents.

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 08:55 PM
The cave cannot not exist. Connor never visited it in AC III and he never knew the amulet was a key. What you`re going on are assumptions, because you`re, again, assuming this is an alternate timeline. We still have no confirmation of what we`re seeing. is it a dream ? alternate reality ? no one knows..

The Cave being blocked there has an explanation and I`m assuming it`ll play into the next DLCs and no it`s not that Minerva blocked it, because that has no base whatsoever...

And what are we doing here if not guessing? Of course they are assumptions, but that doesn't mean they are true!!! We are sharing theories here!! And I'm not claming i'm right. Don't take it that way :P

And about the key I forgot that Juno actually tells Connor that 'he found the key' now that I think of it :P And the cave, well is in the Animus map and Haytham visited it as well as Ziio. Maybe Connor didn't need to go there to be shown in the map when we play as him.

Assassin_M
02-21-2013, 09:01 PM
And what are we doing here if not guessing? Of course they are assumptions, but that doesn't mean they are true!!! We are sharing theories here!! And I'm not claming i'm right. Don't take it that way :P

And about the key I forgot that Juno actually tells Connor that 'he found the key' now that I think of it :P And the cave, well is in the Animus map and Haytham visited it as well as Ziio. Maybe Connor didn't need to go there to be shown in the map when we play as him.
Well, guesses and assumptions have to at least be backed up by something valid for it to make sense.

The cave is never marked on the Animus map :O

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 09:05 PM
Well, guesses and assumptions have to at least be backed up by something valid for it to make sense


-_____________-

ok, I won't base my ideas in facts that are in the game again. As if the game itself was factual

Assassin_M
02-21-2013, 09:07 PM
.

-_____________-
Hmmm

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 09:28 PM
I'm 99% sure that Connor is having a lucid dream. 2 reasons..

1: he seems to be in full control of his actions: When i say this I mean when you have a lucid dream, you are aware that you are dreaming, in this case, connor has full control over his conciousness, he's thinking ok.. wtf all these events are wrong, and not how i remember it.
2: We collect Lucid artefacts.. I think the name lucid speaks for itself.. but hey can't wait to see how these events unfold :)

There's my 2 cents.

:D Apple is like crack then.

New theory for Assassin_M : Washington wanted to show its effects to Connor by having lucid fantasies, they were imagining naked girls on the beach but suddenly Juno showed up and was angry she wasn't in the party with them therefore she make Georgie angry by showing only neaked cows instead. And now, Geroge Washington got mad and wants his revenge in all the land and everyone because he want his neaked girls fantasy back!! And Connor was just there for no reason. :P

Assassin_M
02-21-2013, 09:33 PM
New theory for Assassin_M : Washington wanted to show its effects to Connor by having lucid fantasies, they were imagining naked girls on the beach but suddenly Juno showed up and was angry she wasn't in the party with them therefore she make Georgie angry by showing only neaked cows instead. And now, Geroge Washington got mad and wants his revenge in all the land and everyone because he want his neaked girls fantasy back!! And Connor was just there for no reason. :P
Ok

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 09:35 PM
Ok

:D

FirestarLuva
02-21-2013, 09:44 PM
Anyone find it wierd how Connor has his old hair in the video at the beginning and not the mohawk?
Don''t know if it was an overlook by the devs or he grew it back in such a short time!

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 09:46 PM
Anyone find it wierd how Connor has his old hair in the video at the beginning and not the mohawk?
Don''t know if it was an overlook by the devs or he grew it back in such a short time!

Oh, thats a good point :D is true!! Didn't noticed :P

andreja110s
02-21-2013, 09:55 PM
Anyone find it wierd how Connor has his old hair in the video at the beginning and not the mohawk?
Don''t know if it was an overlook by the devs or he grew it back in such a short time!

I think some time passed between the end of AC3( when Connor burried the amulet) and the beginning of the DLC( when he woke up next to Ziio), so his hair just grew back.

SixKeys
02-21-2013, 09:59 PM
I'm 99% sure that Connor is having a lucid dream. 2 reasons..

1: he seems to be in full control of his actions: When i say this I mean when you have a lucid dream, you are aware that you are dreaming, in this case, connor has full control over his conciousness, he's thinking ok.. wtf all these events are wrong, and not how i remember it.
2: We collect Lucid artefacts.. I think the name lucid speaks for itself.. but hey can't wait to see how these events unfold :)

There's my 2 cents.

Lucid dreaming means exactly as you described it: being aware that you are dreaming. Connor seems not to know whether he is in a dream or not, therefore it's not lucid dreaming. He also doesn't have full control over his consciousness, otherwise he would be able to change the events to his liking. (Such as preventing his mother from dying.)

I believe the word "lucid" in the artifacts refers not to lucid dreaming, but awareness in general. These are pieces from Connor's true reality, the bits he still remembers. He knows the events of AC3 happened but can't quite piece together why different things are happening now.

Weren't there a couple of scenes where various characters referred to "awakening"? The first sequence was called "Awaken", too. That seems to hint at the dream theory, or perhaps awakening from whatever happened that sent Connor into this weird reality (like PoE mind-control).

Assassin_Banana
02-21-2013, 10:25 PM
I wonder about the dreamy state, if is true then what about the other characters? Like Benedict Arnold, if is all a dream does it means the other characters actions are based on what Connor and Geroge Washington knew about them? Connor blamed Arnold for what happened at West Point but he didn't remembered. So how can that be? Also, what about Benjaming Franklin? Connor see him at the National Congress, but did he knew him? And Washington?
We know we may see him in next episode, but how could Connor know what would he say or do if he doesn't know him? assuming all is dream :P
One thing that occurs to me is that the Apple can make you go to a Time Nexus so, maybe Connor and Washington traveled somehow to another reality but only in their minds, as the Apple power has been said to show things from other time periods, Altair could see 'things from the past and from the future' in Revelations. So maybe is a dream. But, is it tied to a Time Nexus?

SixKeys
02-22-2013, 02:30 AM
I went looking for the cave and found it. It's not exactly covered with rocks, it's just an empty cave that leads to a dead end. No First Civ markings, no keyhole. Like Assassin_M said, there are some weird, eerie noises coming from inside the walls. They are easier to hear if you turn on Eagle Vision.

I made a screencap of the location so others can go look for it too:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y200/JessKat/0c2bdcc4-b1c1-483f-823b-59869310ca0a_zps784ce901.jpg

Assassin_Banana
02-22-2013, 03:18 AM
I went looking for the cave and found it. It's not exactly covered with rocks, it's just an empty cave that leads to a dead end. No First Civ markings, no keyhole. Like Assassin_M said, there are some weird, eerie noises coming from inside the walls. They are easier to hear if you turn on Eagle Vision.




:D i went to check it and sounds were the entrance once stood are really creepy :S

xbox360gamer89
02-22-2013, 01:22 PM
what are the sounds?

UrDeviant1
02-22-2013, 01:30 PM
what are the sounds?

http://cuddlebuggery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/aliens-meme.jpeg

xbox360gamer89
02-22-2013, 01:40 PM
lol

Nightmare8767
02-22-2013, 02:00 PM
That was a clever one, lol

You guys are going to make me check it out as soon as I turn my PS3 on...

xbox360gamer89
02-22-2013, 02:03 PM
http://cuddlebuggery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/aliens-meme.jpeg

is that daniel stern?

andreja110s
02-22-2013, 03:15 PM
Here, a video of the cave( not made by me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxycolRBuDc

rupok2
02-22-2013, 04:30 PM
I don't get what you guys are saying about the sounds. They sound like bats and other animals probably deep in the cave. The only different thing I hear is one ambient sound but it doesn't seem that creepy. Can you guys tell me what you guys are hearing?

Megas_Doux
02-22-2013, 05:45 PM
Cool video!

RatonhnhakeFan
02-22-2013, 05:56 PM
http://cuddlebuggery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/aliens-meme.jpeg
lmao xDDD

Megas_Doux
02-22-2013, 05:59 PM
Well....

Since I believe this is some kind of a lucid dream, it makes sense that Connor has no recollection about a place he does not know in the first place. To him, in his dream, is just another cave.

Who knows up to this point though...

Nightmare8767
02-22-2013, 06:59 PM
I was thinking... What is Hayhtham (or someone else, who knows) sacrificed himself so Washington could not access the Temple with the Apple?

SixKeys
02-22-2013, 10:54 PM
Well....

Since I believe this is some kind of a lucid dream, it makes sense that Connor has no recollection about a place he does not know in the first place. To him, in his dream, is just another cave.

Who knows up to this point though...

Connor didn't know about the cave in AC3 either though and it was still there. If everything else about the Frontier looks exactly the same, why would this one place look different? I'm sure it's related to the story somehow.