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View Full Version : Could They See Them? [ACIII Spoilers]



RinoTheBouncer
02-17-2013, 10:15 AM
At the end of ACIII, we encounter Juno and Minerva.
Non of the team members can see them throughout ACIII visions in the temple nor AC:B when we're after the Apple of Eden at the end with Desmond.

So, how could they or could Rebecca, William and Shaun see Juno and Minerva at the end? because when William asks "What's going on, Desmond?" or something like that when Minerva suddenly appears, it feels like he can't see them and only wondering based on Desmond's expressions and we also knew that they never happened to see them in previous installments yet in the end, William says: "Come with us, we'll find another way" which means he got a clue about what they said.

So why couldn't Lucy and the others see them in AC:B and ACIII while they could at the end?

kuled2012
02-17-2013, 11:34 AM
Poor story telling again I guess. William also apparently could listen to Desmond's conversations with Juno (the scene were Desmond talks about Lucy is the best example) But then Rebecca and Shaun are not sure that Juno is there because I remember them saying that they feel a presence of someone or something..I don't know, it's like at times they can hear them and sometimes not.

RinoTheBouncer
02-17-2013, 11:45 AM
Poor story telling again I guess. William also apparently could listen to Desmond's conversations with Juno (the scene were Desmond talks about Lucy is the best example) But then Rebecca and Shaun are not sure that Juno is there because I remember them saying that they feel a presence of someone or something..I don't know, it's like at times they can hear them and sometimes not.

Exactly!
That's what I was talking about. It sounds so selective for some reasons and nobody knows how or why!

UrDeviant1
02-17-2013, 11:48 AM
They can see Juno. If you read the emails Shaun talks about her: "We've got a visitor down here. It's Juno. She's been appearing every now and then. Sort of flits through the air - reminds us to guard you well, find the key, blah blah - and then POOF - disappears. At first we thought it was another holographic recording...But then your father called her some rather choice words - and she glared at him. Honest! Swiveled those eyes in his direction and frowned."

They could see Juno because Juno wanted them to. There are no story inconsistencies here.

LightRey
02-17-2013, 11:59 AM
They can see Juno. If you read the emails Shaun talks about her: "We've got a visitor down here. It's Juno. She's been appearing every now and then. Sort of flits through the air - reminds us to guard you well, find the key, blah blah - and then POOF - disappears. At first we thought it was another holographic recording...But then your father called her some rather choice words - and she glared at him. Honest! Swiveled those eyes in his direction and frowned."

They could see Juno because Juno wanted them to. There are no story inconsistencies here.
Exactly. These were different apparitions from before.

pacmanate
02-17-2013, 01:07 PM
Exactly. These were different apparitions from before.

Adding on to this, how would she enslave mankind if people couldn't see her?

RinoTheBouncer
02-17-2013, 01:07 PM
They can see Juno. If you read the emails Shaun talks about her: "We've got a visitor down here. It's Juno. She's been appearing every now and then. Sort of flits through the air - reminds us to guard you well, find the key, blah blah - and then POOF - disappears. At first we thought it was another holographic recording...But then your father called her some rather choice words - and she glared at him. Honest! Swiveled those eyes in his direction and frowned."

They could see Juno because Juno wanted them to. There are no story inconsistencies here.

But it feels rather too "magical". I mean when you play a video to somebody, you don't actually select who in the room can or cannot see. If it's a crossing from the past to the future, then why the selectivity?

lothario-da-be
02-17-2013, 01:14 PM
Adding on to this, how would she enslave mankind if people couldn't see her?
People can see her if she chooses to.

UrDeviant1
02-17-2013, 01:15 PM
But it feels rather too "magical". I mean when you play a video to somebody, you don't actually select who in the room can or cannot see. If it's a crossing from the past to the future, then why the selectivity?

"At first we thought it was another holographic recording". Meaning the interaction with Juno within the temple wasn't "a message from the past". Her conciousness is actually present within the temple.

UrDeviant1
02-17-2013, 01:56 PM
Adding on to this, how would she enslave mankind if people couldn't see her?

Just look at an Apple of Eden and the way it works on humans. It transmits impulses that compel those affected to act against their will. It's the exact thing Juno did to Desmond when he stabbed Lucy. She uses the tech to broadcast signals, and she's been manipulating people to do her bidding for hundreds of years without always showing herself. I mean, what if she were to transcend into the EYE-ABSTERGO and do her bidding from there, much like she did in the Temple but on a much bigger scale? That's just one theory that i think is possible.

thekarlone
02-17-2013, 02:21 PM
The answer is so simple it's complicated. LOL

All the "appearances" of Minerva, Juno and Tinia during the games (EXCEPT the end of AC3) are projections from the past, like an interdimensional Skype, LOL. Minerva, Juno and Tinia still in the past, in the First Civilization era, they are talking through the time (using the nexus?), they are not physically in the same time and space than Ezio or Desmond.

BUT, inside the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple (where is The Eye), Minerva and Juno are phisically trapped in there, they are talking from the same time and space than Desmond and the others. So, because they are there, phisically, all of them can see Minerva and Juno, it is not a "message", a projection delivered to a specific person.

PS: When Juno talks to Desmond inside the temple, when she explains the methods of salvation, this are also projections from the past, Juno is conducting her plan from the past, before entering The Eye.

UrDeviant1
02-17-2013, 02:42 PM
The answer is so simple it's complicated. LOL

All the "appearances" of Minerva, Juno and Tinia during the games (EXCEPT the end of AC3) are projections from the past, like an interdimensional Skype, LOL. Minerva, Juno and Tinia still in the past, in the First Civilization era, they are talking through the time (using the nexus?), they are not physically in the same time and space than Ezio or Desmond.

BUT, inside the Sanctum Sanctorum of the temple (where is The Eye), Minerva and Juno are phisically trapped in there, they are talking from the same time and space than Desmond and the others. So, because they are there, phisically, all of them can see Minerva and Juno, it is not a "message", a projection delivered to a specific person.

PS: When Juno talks to Desmond inside the temple, when she explains the methods of salvation, this are also projections from the past, Juno is conducting her plan from the past, before entering The Eye.

Minerva is still a holographic recording. When Minerva appears before Desmond and Juno, you can see that Juno is surprised to see her. That's because Minerva used a divination device (the eye), to look to that moment in time not long before she died, but Juno thought that The Eye was the only device of it's kind and it got destroyed, to which Minerva replied "did you think there was only one?". I'm not sure what you think The Eye actually is, but it is not the pedestal that Desmond places his hands on.

So while Juno was conscious within the walls of the temple, ​Minerva was yet again just a holographic recording.

thekarlone
02-17-2013, 02:58 PM
The Eye is exactly the pedestal.

I'm not sure if Minerva is also there (in the Temple) or is a recording from the past, this is a theory of mine.

RinoTheBouncer
02-17-2013, 03:49 PM
The Eye is exactly the pedestal.

I'm not sure if Minerva is also there (in the Temple) or is a recording from the past, this is a theory of mine.
I've thought about this too. She said "Did you think there's only one?" so maybe our next quest is to awaken Minerva since we don't stand a chance against Juno.

UrDeviant1
02-17-2013, 04:39 PM
The Eye is exactly the pedestal.

Ah okay. For some reason i thought that The Eye and the Divination device Minerva used to have one last look to the future were 2 different devices.

RinoTheBouncer
02-17-2013, 04:46 PM
Ah okay. For some reason i thought that The Eye and the Divination device Minerva used to have one last look to the future were 2 different devices.

So did I.
But later, I thought it might be one and the same.

Also when we're in the temple, we get to see Juno talking about entering into a strong vessel but leaving it requires something more, something "wrong" so I immediately assumed the Pedestal even though the 3D shapes that appeared look like large pillars. So could Juno have got into one of those Pillars and the Pedestal is only the button to release her? Juno said "I wondered whether they were right to abandon it" so maybe that's when she "began to work" as Minerva said. I also wondered whether the "Something more, something wrong" means for Desmond to die when he activates it just because it depletes or mutilates his body due to the consumption of his DNA or as a side effect or it deliberately destroys the user so the one inside can use his/her body?

Now I'm thinking about how Minerva mentioned The Eye along with The Pedestal, so maybe they're both one and the same?

UrDeviant1
02-17-2013, 06:12 PM
Ah okay. For some reason i thought that The Eye and the Divination device Minerva used to have one last look to the future were 2 different devices.

Edit: But what i said still stands, even if it does turn out that the device Minerva said she destroyed is indeed the pedestal (/eye..).

infamous_ezio
02-17-2013, 07:09 PM
The eye is the divination device used to look into the future. The eye is not the pedastal..

The first civ can communicate with specific people through the pieces of eden. The reason why desmond could only see the first civ guys was because he was the only one in the group that could activate the apple.

In brother hood those messages were most likely sent across time (while she was still aboard team minerva/tinia). In AC3, Juno was alive, and could talk the group because her consciousness was stored in the temple. Well this is what i think, doesn't really seem like there are any inconsistencies..

UrDeviant1
02-17-2013, 07:59 PM
The eye is the divination device used to look into the future. The eye is not the pedastal..

The first civ can communicate with specific people through the pieces of eden. The reason why desmond could only see the first civ guys was because he was the only one in the group that could activate the apple.

In brother hood those messages were most likely sent across time (while she was still aboard team minerva/tinia). In AC3, Juno was alive, and could talk the group because her consciousness was stored in the temple. Well this is what i think, doesn't really seem like there are any inconsistencies..

This. But could you please tell me how you know for certain that the pedestal and the eye are 2 different devices? I might have missed something along the lines. A link would be great.

infamous_ezio
02-17-2013, 08:35 PM
This. But could you please tell me how you know for certain that the pedestal and the eye are 2 different devices? I might have missed something along the lines. A link would be great.

First of all, how did anyone come to the conclusion that the eye and the pedastal were the same thing? I'm quite curious. The first civ worked together to find these solutions, chances are the pedastal was just a mechanism which allowed desmond to activate the final solution (his DNA being unique, hence only he can activate it).

When minerva appears, Juno says "you, but how? you left! you destroyed the device". Minerva replies "did you think there was just 1?". Minerva then goes on about how her field was divination through numbers aka by definition "The practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means". This is how they were able to send messages across time. Now, minerva specifically mentions that she built the eye to aid them & that when they found out about juno's betrayal they destroyed the divination device that juno was aware of, she didn't know that there was more then 1 (hence she could only contact desmond while he was in the temple, meaning she was still aboard the project during the nexus in revelations and such..). I don't think minerva built the pedastal.. i mean, how the hell would that aid them in contacting desmond? the most reasonable explains seems to be that the eye is the divination device, minerva and the others used it to aid them in contacting desmond.

UrDeviant1
02-18-2013, 12:25 AM
First of all, how did anyone come to the conclusion that the eye and the pedastal were the same thing? I'm quite curious.


I think It's because Minerva only gives an explanation of how the Eye works, and not the pedestal.

The first civ worked together to find these solutions, chances are the pedastal was just a mechanism which allowed desmond to activate the final solution (his DNA being unique, hence only he can activate it).


But what is the final solution? we know it interacts with his DNA to the point where Desmond is just a "key" to activate it, but once activated, what does it actively do? and how does Juno make it so that when Desmond touches it, she gets released? We know Juno tampered with the Eye, but was that to send deceiving message to Desmond throughout the story, or was it to corrupt the pedestal so that it would release her upon activation?

When minerva appears, Juno says "you, but how? you left! you destroyed the device". Minerva replies "did you think there was just 1?". Minerva then goes on about how her field was divination through numbers aka by definition "The practice of seeking knowledge of the future or the unknown by supernatural means". This is how they were able to send messages across time. Now, minerva specifically mentions that she built the eye to aid them & that when they found out about juno's betrayal they destroyed the divination device that juno was aware of, she didn't know that there was more then 1 (hence she could only contact desmond while he was in the temple, meaning she was still aboard the project during the nexus in revelations and such..). I don't think minerva built the pedastal.. i mean, how the hell would that aid them in contacting desmond? the most reasonable explains seems to be that the eye is the divination device, minerva and the others used it to aid them in contacting desmond.

You're right that divination was the method of salvation that Minerva worked on. Which is predicting the future to learn of a solution and later communicate with generations that might follow. We are assuming the pedestal was the device that eventually saved mankind. There's another theory that the pedestal is just the activation switch for the 1st method of salvation (the 3 towers), which are never said to have failed, but only not ready in time to stop the first catastrophe. Work carried on with them long after they were abandoned. So.. what if Minerva used the Eye to see the towers get finished and at the same time saw Juno was still alive and had uploaded herself to the machinery and made it so when Desmond touches the pedestal (the activation switch) she would be released.

Ugh, I'm just gonna' stop there.

Edit: i still don't know how to multi-quote properly -_-

LightRey
02-18-2013, 08:38 AM
The Eye just uses very complicated calculations to manipulate nature a certain way. From what Minerva says, it seems it's really nothing more than a device that knows the basic patterns of time and it uses that knowledge to predict and manipulate future events. Whenever you normally see a holographic figure it seems it's a message left behind by someone after they've used the Eye. I doubt it's much different from leaving a carving in the wall, just cooler, and only visible with Eagle Vision (which suggests they actually stood somewhere and said those things, and Eagle Vision allows Desmond to relive that, like with the ACR seals and Eagle Sense).

The situation with Juno in ACIII is completely different. She's actually in there somewhere or something. She's not leaving behind a message.

infamous_ezio
02-18-2013, 09:45 AM
The Eye just uses very complicated calculations to manipulate nature a certain way. From what Minerva says, it seems it's really nothing more than a device that knows the basic patterns of time and it uses that knowledge to predict and manipulate future events. Whenever you normally see a holographic figure it seems it's a message left behind by someone after they've used the Eye. I doubt it's much different from leaving a carving in the wall, just cooler, and only visible with Eagle Vision (which suggests they actually stood somewhere and said those things, and Eagle Vision allows Desmond to relive that, like with the ACR seals and Eagle Sense).

The situation with Juno in ACIII is completely different. She's actually in there somewhere or something. She's not leaving behind a message.

Agreed. Still don't understand how some people seem to assume that the pedestal and the eye are the same thing :\