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Prof.Wizard
06-15-2004, 11:25 AM
http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/

Check out this site! If I understood correctly (darn my German is rusty) it is selling copies of the original manuals of German WW2 aircrafts and engines. From nearly all of the most famous types and brands!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

I'm thinking seriously to buy the Me163 flying manual by Messerschmitt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PS. Forgive me if it has been posted in the past.

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

Prof.Wizard
06-15-2004, 11:25 AM
http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/

Check out this site! If I understood correctly (darn my German is rusty) it is selling copies of the original manuals of German WW2 aircrafts and engines. From nearly all of the most famous types and brands!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

I'm thinking seriously to buy the Me163 flying manual by Messerschmitt. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PS. Forgive me if it has been posted in the past.

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

BBB_Hyperion
06-15-2004, 11:45 AM
Looked already nice manuals maybe i can get some cheaper on ebay .)

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

ASM 1
06-15-2004, 12:07 PM
Ta 152 H-0 und H-1


Kompendium Flugzeug-Handbuch, Baube-

schreibung und Ausr├╝stungsger├┬Ąteliste, 1944, 260 S.Handbook and specification

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

Two Problems - 1) Price - 64 Euros is a bit steep - Ôú42 GBP, and
2) I don't read/speak german.

Other than that... would be sorely tempted.

ah well will have a squizz on ebay then http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Thanks for that

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

Prof.Wizard
06-15-2004, 12:17 PM
Perhaps ebay has cheaper manuals sure, but 1) probably in worse used conditions 2) you have first to win the auction. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm gonna e-mail them and find out what's the deal.

@ASM1, even without speaking German you can still see important images-numbers. Or perhaps give it for a translation to a friend/person who speaks German.

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

ASM 1
06-15-2004, 12:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Prof.Wizard:
Perhaps ebay has cheaper manuals sure, but 1) probably in worse used conditions 2) you have first to win the auction. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm gonna e-mail them and find out what's the deal.

@ASM1, even without speaking German you can still see important images-numbers. Or perhaps give it for a translation to a friend/person who speaks German.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True true....

When you find out, would you be so kind as to report back here...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ?

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

JG53Harti
06-15-2004, 12:40 PM
but be sure you dont need the manuals http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Either the game or the manuals/tests/reports are wrong http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif you can decide.

I own all the FW190 manuals also the Dora and the Ta 152 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and i have made my decision

MfG Frank

[This message was edited by JG53Harti on Tue June 15 2004 at 11:50 AM.]

Prof.Wizard
06-15-2004, 02:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Harti:

Either the game or the manuals/tests/reports are wrong http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif you can decide.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Comments like this spawn vs threads. There's no need to lament about Oleg's team work on the game. I'm sure he uses some of the same manuals.

The important thing about this thread is that exists an online shop that makes these manuals available commercially and that's a great thing!

@ASM1, sure mate. I'll report once I have info. I hope they respond me... I'm mostly interested in the quality of these manuals if I am to verse the money requested. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

DeBaer.534
06-15-2004, 02:07 PM
yeah a great thing for them to make money.
they found the original manual somewhere, spent no money on it, or bought it cheap from someone who didnt know the real value, now copy it (whats the price of 50 sites blank paper and the color to print the letters? 5 euros?) and now sell it for lots of euros. they make ten times more money than they spent id guess.

JG53Harti
06-15-2004, 02:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Prof.Wizard:
The important thing about this thread is that exists an online shop that makes these manuals available commercially and that's a great thing!

@ASM1, sure mate. I'll report once I have info. I hope they respond me... I'm mostly interested in the quality of these manuals if I am to verse the money requested. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Manuals are in realy good quality, replicas from the original one.

The manuals of FW190A1-A6 are replicas from 1943.

Some manulas are written/printed in older german letters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif maybe some younger people cant read this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

MfG Frank

JG53Harti
06-15-2004, 02:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DeBaer.534:
yeah a great thing for them to make money.
they found the original manual somewhere, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


first not THEY found somewhere --&gt; ONE man has the ORIGINAL manuals at home !
And believe me the books are in nice qualtiy !

MfG Frank

Prof.Wizard
06-15-2004, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Harti:

Manuals are in realy good quality, replicas from the original one.

The manuals of FW190A1-A6 are replicas from 1943.

Some manulas are written/printed in older german letters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif maybe some younger people cant read this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you obtain yours from this online shop?
Can you vouch for it, is it OK?

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

DeBaer.534
06-15-2004, 02:19 PM
still it cant be called commercial, its more like a special thing for collectors. anyway he earns himself a goldene nase daran, du verstehst hoffentlich was ich meine.
i personally, being one of the young people (who can read the old letters and even some s├╝tterlin), cant efford such manuals. id really like to study them, but no way in getting them for a reasonable price.

michapma
06-15-2004, 02:42 PM
It's just so pricy. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

The cost of getting one or two is not so bad of course. But you start wanting them for all kinds of aircraft. I only have pilot's notes for the P-39Q-1 and one for the P-40. They're great, they really changed the way I look at these and other aircraft in general, made it much more real. Plus seeing what all those gadgets in the cockpit do and where systems you had never thought of is fascinating! I think the P-38 will be the next one I buy.

The P-40 book I got for $5 as an electronic copy. I've never found another one so cheap though, they're all $12-$15 and up.

Mike

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

michapma
06-15-2004, 02:44 PM
Actually I am curious about something. I'd like to know what the copyrights are on these things. There are various people who sell them, and they are so old I wonder if they are in the public domain? In that case, it would be fine for them to sell copies, but there would also be nothing to hinder others from making copies and distributing them for free. Since that's not the case, or they are rare to find, I wonder what the legal deal is?

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

Prof.Wizard
06-15-2004, 02:56 PM
If the content of these flying manuals is like the one in Bf109's Lair (http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/techref/manuals/109g/g6u4/g6u4-home.htm) then yes I'm extremely interested!!

These manuals are full of images as well. Pretty neat. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

ASM 1
06-15-2004, 03:03 PM
I too was wondering about the copyright (Scans anyone?) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

michapma
06-15-2004, 03:06 PM
The only thing that I ever heard along these lines was Loco-S once getting permission to post a copy of the P-40 pilot's notes on Eastern Skies. Although he got permission I never really heard from him about it, I should contact him again.

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

IIIJG53_Crinius
06-15-2004, 03:58 PM
Hi,

I own the 109 G2 Manual from that shop. They are no bargain, thats for sure, but they are worth every Eurocent. Really great reprints. I also have some reprints from the Nafziger collection (reprints of the Original German Panzergrenadier Squad Tactics Trainig manual). I use them for Combat Mission 1-3. The real tactics work great there.

http://www.jg26.privat.t-online.de/lumber2.jpg

I always wanted to be a Lumberjack!

ASM 1
06-15-2004, 04:52 PM
These I *WOULD* Like to see... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Do 335 A-1
D(Luft)T 2335, bzw. Werksausgabe, Handbuch,
Teil 0, 2, 3, 6, 9C, 1944, 220 S. Handbook

Do 335 A
Werkszeichnungen, Rumpfzelle 60 x 140, Flugzeug-
├┼ôbersicht 60 x 80, Aerodyn. Baurichtlinie 40 x 60 cm

Drawings: fuse, aircraft-overview, aerodyn. specifications

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

JG53Harti
06-15-2004, 05:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Prof.Wizard:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Harti:

Manuals are in realy good quality, replicas from the original one.

The manuals of FW190A1-A6 are replicas from 1943.

Some manulas are written/printed in older german letters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif maybe some younger people cant read this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did you obtain yours from this online shop?
Can you vouch for it, is it OK?

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes ordered my first 2 manuals in that onlineshop. The others i ordered after spook with the man. 2 days after the ordering i had all the stuff !

For example the FW190 A7-A9:
in that 2 books (all the parts of the manuals are ?bound? in 2 big books)you can find all the parts they were printed. If not all parts aviable you will find a info f.i. he has not all parts of the Dora 9.

Nothing negativ about that shop

Btw i owned also the BF109 Emil & F1-F4.. In this manuals you can also find some more infos about flying the plane like the best climbspeed by the respective heights (no infos about that in the FW190A-manuals)

I hope this was translated understandably

MfG Frank

darkhorizon11
06-16-2004, 12:25 AM
Perhaps you guys could be kind enough to share some of these with us??? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

IE some scans and such. Maybe the 1c crew can use these in their mission to create the perfect realistic FS.

Prof.Wizard
06-16-2004, 12:59 AM
Naaah, I'm pretty sure Oleg is already in possesion of some of these.

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

Prof.Wizard
06-16-2004, 01:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASM 1:
These I *WOULD* Like to see... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Do 335 A-1
D(Luft)T 2335, bzw. Werksausgabe, Handbuch,
Teil 0, 2, 3, 6, 9C, 1944, 220 S. Handbook

Do 335 A
Werkszeichnungen, Rumpfzelle 60 x 140, Flugzeug-
├┼ôbersicht 60 x 80, Aerodyn. Baurichtlinie 40 x 60 cm

Drawings: fuse, aircraft-overview, aerodyn. specifications
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Count me in. I'm seriously considering the same manual and drawing plans. But I'll have to ask the guy which parts ("Teils" as you see) of the manual are avaibable. Seems it's not complete... not that is is a problem, it's over 200 pages... a bounty! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

JG53Harti
06-16-2004, 02:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Prof.Wizard:
Naaah, I'm pretty sure Oleg is already in possesion of some of these.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure about this, because some of the loadouts are totaly wrong ! FI FW190...

Some of the loadouts still missing like Panzerblitz for the F8 and also the loadout of the FW190A6 isnt correct. Normaly the A6 had the loadouts of the A8 ( the twin-MG151 are not in it / late A6 used MK103 and MK108 ) also other loadouts belongs to earlier F-Mpdels and not to a FW190A....
a.s.o.

JG53Harti
06-16-2004, 02:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Perhaps you guys could be kind enough to share some of these with us??? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

IE some scans and such. Maybe the 1c crew can use these in their mission to create the perfect realistic FS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you not allowed to scan these books or copy these books....

MfG Frank

IIIJG53_Crinius
06-16-2004, 03:05 AM
Hi,

as I said before I own the G2 manual from that shop. I tried to fly with the settings as described in the Pilot manual but so far no real success. So I guess someone is wrong Mr. Oleg or the guys who wrote the books 60yeras ago http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . I also own the Pilot notes from Spit VB and IX, which bought at Amazon.com. But also no go.

http://www.jg26.privat.t-online.de/lumber2.jpg

I always wanted to be a Lumberjack!

jeroen_R90S
06-16-2004, 04:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IIIJG53_Crinius:
Hi,

as I said before I own the G2 manual from that shop. I tried to fly with the settings as described in the Pilot manual but so far no real success. So I guess someone is wrong Mr. Oleg or the guys who wrote the books 60yeras ago http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . I also own the Pilot notes from Spit VB and IX, which bought at Amazon.com. But also no go.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Manuals and books get revised and updated, you know http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
How can you tell whether you have the latest or best revision? One can't even tell which one out of how many one has. I have workshop manuals, manuals and part lists for old Hanomag and Mercedes-Benz light trucks that got updated every few months; too much revisions to keep track of. IMHO you can't base an entire opinon on one of those manuals... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif No personal offence meant here, BTW!

For the other folks: you can ask Herr Hafner for samples, he'll gladly send a few random pages of the book you're interested in. I only have pilots handbooks, they make for interesting reading. The quality is excellent, no copy-of-copy-of-copy-etc. In some books the age of the original *does* show, though.
I really like the part in He-177 and He-219 manuals which tells how to blow up your plane after crash landing in enemy territory! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The tech stuff (workshop manuals, parts lists) are too expensive for their real use and reading value. I'm sure they're worth their price, though, and although I'm very interesed in tech stuff it's way to dry stuff, really -got warned by Ruy Horta in advance for that.
I don't like sitting in the sun reading a parts or workshop manual, not my piece of cake. They would come handy if I dug up a 190 from the IJsselmeer, though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jeroen

BBB_Hyperion
06-16-2004, 04:14 AM
I think when you can bring em to translate them to english and sell em on amazon this shop would make more money. Looks it isnt their priority to make much money , well their decision .

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

Prof.Wizard
06-16-2004, 08:05 AM
I wasn't aware of some German WW2 aircraft/engine brands that the site shows...

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

butch2k
06-16-2004, 08:41 AM
Udo is a good friend of mine, and is really a nice guy to deal with, i highly recommend his shop.
Note that the manuals (some) are available on CD as well at a much cheaper price.

About manuals one must keep in mind that they are not 100% reliable, since the versions available from Udo are not always the latest ones published. Some manuals even contradict themselves with different values at different pages for the same thing. Manuals were usualy written before the new aircraft version was in production and as such they are some discrepencies, using for instance materials from earlier version (190A-7 to A-9 manual for instance).
I own about 80 manuals from Udo's and never had any troubles with them. Maybe you won't get answer if you email him this week as he may still be on hollidays.

whiteladder
06-16-2004, 09:10 AM
I`d be interested to know if anybody has the any of the jumo 213 engine manuals.

Just about to start a 1/32 D-9 modelling project and need some good refences to scratch build the engine.

JG53Harti
06-16-2004, 09:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by butch2k:
Udo is a good friend of mine, and is really a nice guy to deal with, i highly recommend his shop.
Note that the manuals (some) are available on CD as well at a much cheaper price.

About manuals one must keep in mind that they are not 100% reliable, since the versions available from Udo are not always the latest ones published. Some manuals even contradict themselves with different values at different pages for the same thing. Manuals were usualy written before the new aircraft version was in production and as such they are some discrepencies, using for instance materials from earlier version (190A-7 to A-9 manual for instance).
I own about 80 manuals from Udo's and never had any troubles with them. Maybe you won't get answer if you email him this week as he may still be on hollidays.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nothing more to say.....

MfG Frank

Prof.Wizard
06-16-2004, 12:17 PM
Thank you guys, more recomendations than this I couldn't have. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Seems to me a pretty solid and reliable source.

I'll probably buy a couple of interesting manuals... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg