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fordfan25
07-24-2004, 07:50 PM
this may sound a bit dumb but i remember hearing about a U.S gun in the .60 cal.if so how did it compair to the .50 of course it could all be in my head lol. i tried looking it up on the net but couldnt find any thing.

fordfan25
07-24-2004, 07:50 PM
this may sound a bit dumb but i remember hearing about a U.S gun in the .60 cal.if so how did it compair to the .50 of course it could all be in my head lol. i tried looking it up on the net but couldnt find any thing.

SkyChimp
07-24-2004, 08:02 PM
The US experimented with a very high velocity .60 gun, the T17 IIRC, but it never entered production. It apparently was very highly regarded, however.

Regards,
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Athosd
07-24-2004, 08:30 PM
.60cal is about 15.3mm. I wonder how a P47 with 6 (or 8) MG151/15 would handle - it would certainly be lethal, but then so were 8 .50cal.

Salute

Athos

Edit - just did a quick surf for info seems the US .60 (15.2x114) was originally developed for an anti-tank rifle spec. The T17 was a development based on a captured MG151 (according to http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/MilRel.htm anyway)

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The Queen commands and we'll obey
Over the Hills and far away.

SkyChimp
07-24-2004, 08:32 PM
The .60 was a necked-down 20mm IIRC. It was a big gun.

Regards,
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fordfan25
07-24-2004, 09:01 PM
sounds like something that would be best used on smaller ships and land craft like tanks and APC's. long rang and good penatracion.of course it would depend on the size of the gun.

Aaron_GT
07-25-2004, 03:15 AM
I thought the .60 was essentially a copy of the MG151/15 (higher velocity than the .50)

SkyChimp
07-25-2004, 11:28 AM
Check Tony Williams site. The .60 was based on a cannon, not a machine gun round.

Regards,
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Fliger747
07-25-2004, 02:38 PM
1944 Joint Fighter Conf discusses this weapon. The long and short was that it had outstanding penetration and good range, enough so that it would penetrate any armor that could be concievebly be installed on an aircraft.

The wing bays of existing production aircraft, including F8F, were not large enough, and with the end of the war it passed from the scene.

Not installed in aircraft that ever saw combat, or even would have!

p1ngu666
07-25-2004, 02:46 PM
they was tried on p38 iirec, stuck out a long way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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CowboyTodd41
07-25-2004, 05:10 PM
Crimson skies had a .70cal! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

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VOL_Hans
07-25-2004, 09:55 PM
Yhea, it's a copy of the German 15mm MG-151/15 Can..Heavy Ma...hum...

What exactly should the MG-151/15 be called? At 15mm, would it be an HMG or would it be a light cannon?

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Fliger747
07-26-2004, 04:52 AM
My understanding is that the difference between a "cannon" and a machine gun lies in the type of shells that could be fired. "Canons" fired, or could fire exploding shells. Tracers and incindiaries do not "explode" per-se.

VOL_Hans
07-26-2004, 08:39 AM
But don't 7.92mm MG-17's fire HE rounds? B-Patrone or something like that I think.
That would make it a 7.92mm cannon...

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RedDeth
07-26-2004, 12:40 PM
mustang and jug made mincemeat of all enemy planes with just the 50cal. 60 was never needed to bring anything down

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NegativeGee
07-26-2004, 01:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
But don't 7.92mm MG-17's fire HE rounds? B-Patrone or something like that I think.
That would make it a 7.92mm cannon...

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That right IIRC. I think the thing with the 20mm calibre upwards (ie. cannons) is that is the point at which the HE content and thus explosive effect becomes strong enough to do significant damage (okay a bit subjective, but thats the jist).

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

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SkyChimp
07-26-2004, 05:13 PM
IIRC, the .60 GUN itself was modeleled after the MG-151, but not the cartridge. The German MG-151 was designed around the US .60 anti-tank round. The US .60 and the German 15mm were similar only in caliber.

Regards,
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SkyChimp
07-26-2004, 05:13 PM
IIRC, the .60 GUN itself was modeled after the MG-151, but not the cartridge. The German MG-151 was redesigned around the US .60 anti-tank round. The US .60 and the German 15mm were similar only in caliber.

Regards,
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Copperhead310th
07-26-2004, 08:35 PM
well in contrast to all this consider that the one option of the XP-72 Superbolt- the replacment for the Thunderbolt was desighned to carry 6 - 37 mm canons. or the usual 8 .50 cal HMG's.
could you imageing hitting something with 6 37mm cannons?! OMFG. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

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heywooood
07-26-2004, 09:46 PM
uffff - I'm sure the dispersion of 6 x 37mm cannon would be very wide..to the point of rendering the awesome firepower virtually useless. You prolly couldn't hit a smokestack from a hundred yards away with those even it they were nose mounted.

he said - stirring the pot with one eyebrow raised like a very cheeky monkey....



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hobnail
07-27-2004, 01:05 AM
Trade em all in for a single centreline Mk213C, the best aircraft cannon developed during the war, never to see general use.

Red_Russian13
07-28-2004, 11:31 PM
Please elaborate on this Mk213C...I've never heard of it, can you explain or give me a link? Thanks in advance.

Red Russian

fordfan25
07-28-2004, 11:46 PM
this is going to sound real dumb "well it is comeing from me after all"but what cal.was the gun rambo used at the end of the first movie. it was belt fead and looked to be a large cal.its got a funny looking slide or something under the bottem of the barrel.i think thay also mounted them on choppers in vietnam. was it some other kind of 50.cal?thats the gun i was pictureing in my head wich obviously cant be the gun were talking about.

ShadowHawk__
07-28-2004, 11:55 PM
The M60? It's a 7.62mm though, not .50 cal.

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Carnage2681
07-29-2004, 02:44 PM
One question to the US guys ?

why did the americans say .45 or .50 instead of the mm ?

Is it in inch or something ?

Yellonet
07-29-2004, 03:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carnage2681:
One question to the US guys ?

why did the americans say .45 or .50 instead of the mm ?

Is it in inch or something ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes it's "inch" - the imperial scale.
.50 means ‚Ĺ inch = 12.7 mm.


- Yellonet

fordfan25
07-29-2004, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ShadowHawk__:
The M60? It's a 7.62mm though, not .50 cal.

__________________________________________________ ________
Death From Above
http://www.geocities.com/tk_shadow_hawk/shadowhawk_sig2.txt <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok thats what i was thinking of the m60" i just assumed it ment .60cal lol.please forgive me i think i was supposed to be in special ed in school lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

NegativeGee
07-29-2004, 04:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Russian13:
Please elaborate on this Mk213C...I've never heard of it, can you explain or give me a link? Thanks in advance.

Red Russian<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was the first revolver type cannon, developed by Mauser late in WW2, prototypes only.

Bits on these sites:

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-po.html

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/RED%20QUEEN.htm

Look under DEFA 551 here:

http://www.vivekthomas.com/defa550.htm

And look at the BK 27 Aircraft Cannon for a modern evolution of the weapon:

http://www.rheinmetall-detec.com/index.php?lang=3&fid=1501&action=pd

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

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Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Red_Russian13
07-30-2004, 01:03 AM
NegativeGee;

Thanks a lot. Appreciate your help.

Red Russian

Athosd
07-30-2004, 01:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fordfan25:
this is going to sound real dumb "well it is comeing from me after all"but what cal.was the gun rambo used at the end of the first movie. it was belt fead and looked to be a large cal.its got a funny looking slide or something under the bottem of the barrel.i think thay also mounted them on choppers in vietnam. was it some other kind of 50.cal?thats the gun i was pictureing in my head wich obviously cant be the gun were talking about.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As already stated that's the M60 7.62mm (or .30 cal) GPMG [General Purpose Machine Gun]. The thing under the barrel is the gas cylinder (IIRC Rambo was using one of the shortened versions with a forward pistol grip - wasn't he also wearing some kind of bullet proof body oil?).
Gas operated weapons, such as the M60, tap off some of the gas that is thrusting the bullet up the barrel and use it to drive the operating parts (bolt assembly, ammunition feed).

If Rambo had been firing a .50cal from the hip I'd have been almost as impressed as the time he fired a 66mm SRAAW from the cockpit of a chopper http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Salute

Athos

Over the Hills and O'er the Main,
To Flanders, Portugal and Spain,
The Queen commands and we'll obey
Over the Hills and far away.

DuxCorvan
08-01-2004, 05:52 AM
I have always wonder how could Rambo hit anything or even stand firing such heavy gun -or even two- from his hip in 30-second bursts. Two seconds, and recoil would make him shoot down birds face up on the ground. Man, if I tried, I'd fly backwards impulsed by gun thrust... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Yellonet
08-01-2004, 06:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
I have always wonder how could Rambo hit anything or even stand firing such heavy gun -or even two- from his hip in 30-second bursts. Two seconds, and recoil would make him shoot down birds face up on the ground. Man, if I tried, I'd fly backwards impulsed by gun thrust... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hehe... it's not that hard to fire a M-60 in standing position, you'll just have to compensate for the recoil.. although holding it one-handed takes some strength, but Mr. Stallone isn't such a weakling after all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


- Yellonet

grist
08-01-2004, 07:51 AM
http://www.media-awareness.ca/english/resources/educational/overheads/gender_portrayal/images/rambo.gif

Stallone had it easier firing blanks.

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EFG_Zeb
08-04-2004, 06:43 AM
How about that?
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/sebfly100/efg/rambo108.jpg

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theta_ops
08-04-2004, 09:59 PM
well, those would have only been the 37mm that was on the p-39, so they would be low velocity, like shooting grapefruits, i've heard.

Charos
08-04-2004, 10:50 PM
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-po.html

QUOTE:"Alternatives to the four MK 108 cannon proposed by the designers included two MK 103 and two MG 151/20 cannon, or two MG 213C revolver cannon.

The MG 213C was designed in 1944, and it was a revolver gun with a five-chamber cylinder. By dividing the loading of a cartridge in three steps, a high rate of fire could be achieved while keeping the forces within the gun limited. There were 20mm and 30mm versions. The MG 213C made linear action guns obsolete for fighters, and was copied widely.

In Britain the armament of four 20mm Hispano cannon remained the standard. The Meteor had actually been designed for six such cannon, but the mount of two of them was too unpractical to be safely used. Four 20mm cannon were carried by the last piston-engined fighters and the straight-wing jet fighters. The Hispano remained in use until the first swept-wing fighters appeared with the 30mm Aden cannon, a copy of the MG 213C. With four Aden guns, the Hawker Hunter was considered over-gunned by many observers: A rare distinction for any fighter aircraft. Two Aden guns, as in the Lightning, Jaguar, Saab J35 Draken, and Folland Gnat, was a more common armament." END QUOTE



I do have a Schematic pic of Both the 20mm and 30mm of the MK213C but I cant upload it at the moment"

Texas LongHorn
08-07-2004, 03:50 AM
Fordfan wrote in the thread-
"ok thats what i was thinking of the m60" i just assumed it ment .60cal lol.please forgive me i think i was supposed to be in special ed in school lol "
Hey buddy don't feel bad. Now with PF you get to learn all the other caliber terminology, like in Ships. LOL, but not at you. For instance, the common DP or dual purpose gun on everything from Destroyers on up was the 5" 38 DP mount. Two rifled tubes in a small turret. They could fire at VERY rapidly at ships as well as elevate to use as AA weapons. Nasty sfuff when radar controlled. Anyway, the 5" part is the diameter of the breech, where the 38 caliber part comes in is that the tube itself is 38 times longer than the breech opening. This style of design nomanclature still exists AFAIK. For instance the shells of the Yamato were 18.1 inch with a caliber of something like 75. I didn't look that one up, just popped up in my memory. I guess the reason I started spouting in the first place was to tell you don't worry, this is the best forum out there, and folks will actually answer your questions. So the next time somebody tells you they have a 38, just ask em' if the 5" is still the sweetest DP gun ever built &lt;ggg.&gt; Notice I use the words tubes, guns, and rifles? The US heavy stuff in WWII used that terminology. All the best, LongHorn

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