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View Full Version : Why do people hate on Ac3? I hve a theory.



Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 05:06 AM
Everyone loved ac2. It was a gaming masterpiece. People also like brotherhood, but i dont think quite as much, because the story was nit quite as good. Revelations was awful because of a decent at best story combined with same old same old combat and a few awful new additions like tower defense. However, some people believe that ac3 is the worst of the series. This baffles me, so i have set myself to find a reason why people are hating on this game so much.

1. Some dont like connor. Honestly, I believe that these people who hate connor have been spoiled by 3 games of charming ol joking ezio. If you really think about it, connors personality is perfectly suited for the story of the game. While altair was serious and faceless and lacking a personality just because thats who he is, Connor has a reason, and a right to be the way he is. Just look at my forums defending connor, and you will understand why connor is not as bad as some think he is.

2. The music is not as good. I do agree that jesper kyd is way better than balfe, and that his Ac2 score was perfect, i also like balfes nature like, dark, gritty, and batmanlike sound also. Lets not forget that the soundtrack of brotherhood and revelations were no where near as good as ac2 also. The experience was ruined a little by the lack of ambient music, but rest assured (with AssassinM as my witness, ) it is coming back to the game this january.

3. The bugs!!!!. Oh the pbugs. I agree that this game had a bethesda amount of glitches, a departure from the previous ac entrees polish and perfectness. But, i think that it is totally unfair to call a game bad because of the bugs. They can be fixed!!! If the story of a game is bad, that cant be fixed, and that would make the game worse. But bugs are different. When i saw an early review of ac3 with an 7.5 out of 10, it almost killed me with sadness. But, when i saw the reason why it was reviewd badly, i was so relieved. It had the classic good vs bad format, and the tons of good things were offset by a only a few bad, including bad mission design and bugs. It is unfair to call a game broken because of the bugs.
If the bugs are that bad, they will Be fixed.

4. The bad mission design. This is the only one i agree with. For an open world game, there is zero freedom. The mission designs and mission constraint system is infuriating. But, ALL the ac games have had bad mission design. Ac3 is no worse in my opinion.

5. Last but not least, and perhaps the most surprising one, the cities!! Ac2 was gifted by the best cities in the world as playgrounds. I still dream that ubisoft would add a venice dlc to ac3 so i can run around agian but with better gameplay. The cities of rome and istanbul were good, but they lacked the perfectness of florence and venice. I think that some people have not enjoyed ac3 brotherhood, or revelations as much because the cities werent as good. Rome was great, but remember it was in a time of ruin and despair, constantinople was rushed in my opinion, and the low roofs and wide streets of boston and ny make the cities less fun to explore, even with trees and windows to jump through in between. I personally love ny and boston (probably because both of those cities are in my backyard, and my house is in the frontier) but they are not as good as venice or florence, and this is another reason why some think ac3 is worse. I will post a poll to prove why ac2's cities made all the difference.

Well, there you have it. These are my theories for why so many people hate ac3. Remember that not everyone loved ac2 when it first came out,so maybe we just need to give ac3 some time. Also remember that ac3 is the pinnacle of ac gameplay, so... You know...... Ac3 ftw!

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 05:16 AM
All the reasons you stated above are correct. just a point i`d like to make is that AC III had the worst mission ever created in an AC game. The battle of Concord. Riding a horse (Which is broken) going back and forth pressing R1...How is this fun ? AC I may have been repetitive, AC II may have had stretched out and Unnecessary missions, ACB may have boring missions and ACR may have had uninspired missions, but never did any one mission in any of those have it as broken, or as tedious or as stupid as the battle of Concord, so I believe people may be justified with their complaints in some horrible instances of mission design.

My Favorite cites are Damascus and Constantinople. NY and Boston may not be as pretty, but I appreciated the detail and remarkable accuracy and that`s, at the end of the day, what matters most for me.

So Yes, I completely approve of this and understand most of the complaints. Some; however, make zero sense to me..

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 05:18 AM
All the reasons you stated above are correct. just a point i`d like to make is that AC III had the worst mission ever created in an AC game. The battle of Concord. Riding a horse (Which is broken) going back and forth pressing R1...How is this fun ? AC I may have been repetitive, AC II may have had stretched out and Unnecessary missions, ACB may have boring missions and ACR may have had uninspired missions, but never did any one mission in any of those have it as broken, or as tedious or as stupid as the battle of Concord, so I believe people may be justified with their complaints in some horrible instances of mission design.

My Favorite cites are Damascus and Constantinople. NY and Boston may not be as pretty, but I appreciated the detail and remarkable accuracy and that`s, at the end of the day, what matters most for me.

So Yes, I completely approve of this and understand most of the complaints. Some; however, make zero sense to me..
Crap i forgot the ac1 cities!

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 05:20 AM
Crap i forgot the ac1 cities!
not a problem xD

This is a thread about why people prefer AC II-era games anyway;)

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 05:22 AM
not a problem xD

This is a thread about why people prefer AC II-era games anyway;)

I will totally be hated for saying this, but yeah, ac1 in my opinion was so boring that i always forget about it.

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 05:24 AM
I will totally be hated for saying this, but yeah, ac1 in my opinion was so boring that i always forget about it.
No one has a right to hate you. You thought it was boring, I thought it was better than AC II...I`ll say it proudly...You do too.

I like AC I more than AC II.....AC II was the worst AC game for me...See ??

don't give a crap about anyone... don't even acknowledge it....It`s your Opinion

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 05:27 AM
Thanks for the motivational :) and wow your probably the first one i know to call ac2 worst. Buckle up

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 05:29 AM
Thanks for the motivational :) and wow your probably the first one to call ac2 worst. Buckle up
I`m the ONLY one who calls it that here. People may have it one place less than AC III or 2 places less..or even 3....I have it less than ALL of them.

And you`re welcome..

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 05:31 AM
I`m the ONLY one who calls it that here. People may have it one place less than AC III or 2 places less..or even 3....I have it less than ALL of them.

And you`re welcome..

Id be interested to hear, what makes ac1 the best for you?

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 05:51 AM
Id be interested to hear, what makes ac1 the best for you?
The Investigations, The Freedom, The grayness, The Atmosphere and Altair.

I`v been following AC I since it`s announcement, but I forgot about it near its release and i saw it after its release at a friend`s. I thought I`d give it a try. fell in love, bought it. I did not know about the present day bit, because when I tried the game, I was instantly in the past, anyways. The third Crusade is one of my favorite times in history, but I never really thought how different it is to actually play it. The music, the cities and Characters all made this a complete experience. The feeling of being a part of an Order, the sternness of Al-Mualim, the arrogance of a young Protagonist. it was all so perfect. The Talk and Philosophy, the artifact and templars. I was just hooked in. combine with that the Mystery of the Present day of Desmond Miles, Warren and Lucy. The amazing thing is that it took just 3 characters and a few emails to build absolute suspense. The cities were just magnificent too. The Culture in Damascus, the duality and holiness of Jerusalem and the death and grittiness of Acre. Conflicting Atmospheres with conflicting people talking about both sides of the war and i`m just laughing about how I`m a part of something so much larger. passing by the heralds screaming their beliefs and how God is on their side while Altair just passed by..marvelous.

The Investigations were a system that I SORELY wished they`d refine in AC II, but alas, they just scrapped it. The investigation is what makes me feel like an Assassin. I didn't care if it was repetitive, all I knew is that this system simply needed variety and more meat to it. The maps and letters I retrieved from pick pocketing, the events and Information I heard from eaves dropping, the dedication and violence i saw from interrogation and the feeling of "We`re everywhere" I found from the Informants. It was just fascinating and it made the world feel alive. I used every bit of information I gathered potently. I scouted the area of my intended Assassination and actually planned where and when I`ll strike and through which route will I make my escape. I usually just sat down on a bench to scout my area and immerse myself better. I was mind blown by how the areas were designed to have numerous opportunities for assassination and dozens of escape routes. It all felt so free..Hell I could even just pull my sword and screw you all Rambo style..even though AC I had the least elements of stealth, It used each to it`s maximum potential and thus I felt content after every escape.

Altair was just Awesome. He was cold and calculating. arrogant and brash at the start and showing signs of repent during the middle. His tone was usually condescending to his peers, but it all changed and I felt it. he became humbled and more tolerant to insults and sarcasm. he accepted responsibility for his actions and has in doing so redeemed his honor and legacy. each target he slew made him ask questions and demand answers. His enemies seemed no worse than the Assassins themselves, the questions Altair asked made ME ask them as well. there was doubt in my work, am I right ? Are these really criminals ? I was asking questions till AC II was announced. The Characters in this game are just so deep. I did not need a Joker, fun loving, Assassin who sleeps with every moving thing. all I wanted was Altair and the cast of AC I.

If I never loved AC I, I`d have never come this far and AC would`v just been another bump in the road..

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 06:13 AM
The Investigations, The Freedom, The grayness, The Atmosphere and Altair.

I`v been following AC I since it`s announcement, but I forgot about it near its release and i saw it after its release at a friend`s. I thought I`d give it a try. fell in love, bought it. I did not know about the present day bit, because when I tried the game, I was instantly in the past, anyways. The third Crusade is one of my favorite times in history, but I never really thought how different it is to actually play it. The music, the cities and Characters all made this a complete experience. The feeling of being a part of an Order, the sternness of Al-Mualim, the arrogance of a young Protagonist. it was all so perfect. The Talk and Philosophy, the artifact and templars. I was just hooked in. combine with that the Mystery of the Present day of Desmond Miles, Warren and Lucy. The amazing thing is that it took just 3 characters and a few emails to build absolute suspense. The cities were just magnificent too. The Culture in Damascus, the duality and holiness of Jerusalem and the death and grittiness of Acre. Conflicting Atmospheres with conflicting people talking about both sides of the war and i`m just laughing about how I`m a part of something so much larger. passing by the heralds screaming their beliefs and how God is on their side while Altair just passed by..marvelous.

The Investigations were a system that I SORELY wished they`d refine in AC II, but alas, they just scrapped it. The investigation is what makes me feel like an Assassin. I didn't care if it was repetitive, all I knew is that this system simply needed variety and more meat to it. The maps and letters I retrieved from pick pocketing, the events and Information I heard from eaves dropping, the dedication and violence i saw from interrogation and the feeling of "We`re everywhere" I found from the Informants. It was just fascinating and it made the world feel alive. I used every bit of information I gathered potently. I scouted the area of my intended Assassination and actually planned where and when I`ll strike and through which route will I make my escape. I usually just sat down on a bench to scout my area and immerse myself better. I was mind blown by how the areas were designed to have numerous opportunities for assassination and dozens of escape routes. It all felt so free..Hell I could even just pull my sword and screw you all Rambo style..even though AC I had the least elements of stealth, It used each to it`s maximum potential and thus I felt content after every escape.

Altair was just Awesome. He was cold and calculating. arrogant and brash at the start and showing signs of repent during the middle. His tone was usually condescending to his peers, but it all changed and I felt it. he became humbled and more tolerant to insults and sarcasm. he accepted responsibility for his actions and has in doing so redeemed his honor and legacy. each target he slew made him ask questions and demand answers. His enemies seemed no worse than the Assassins themselves, the questions Altair asked made ME ask them as well. there was doubt in my work, am I right ? Are these really criminals ? I was asking questions till AC II was announced. The Characters in this game are just so deep. I did not need a Joker, fun loving, Assassin who sleeps with every moving thing. all I wanted was Altair and the cast of AC I.

If I never loved AC I, I`d have never come this far and AC would`v just been another bump in the road..

Oh my god that was... Intense. I can totally see your reasoning. I guess the repetiveness was just too much for me. Also, my first ac game was ac2. So that could also be it. I was new to the ac scene after a friend of mine told me that there was this awesome game where you could jump off buildings and stab people with hidden knives. I looked into ac2 during its marketing campaign before its release and thought "wow this looks interesting but it looks a little too religious for me." i also wasnt interested in history at the time. But, i played it at a friends house and fell in love with it. That game made me obsessed with the rennaisance. So as not to spoil myself, i went back and played through ac1 first before buying ac2. I loved the gritiness of ac1, and the music, but the repetiveness and the structure of the story was just not to my liking. I played ac2 and felt more connected because it was more emotional and i was longing for customization of clothes and weapons, which was what i got. Ac brotherhood was great because it was still rennaisance, but ezio was less annoying. I replayed all three games a few times, ac2 maybe 4 or 5, and then revelations came out. That game was just so awful. The combat was old and annoying, the story was half-assed in my opinion, and the graphics were worse in my opinion. I loved ac2's smooth textures that almost looked like a painting. Brotherhood was good becuase it was still smooth but better looking. I felt that revelations was too sharp, too much contrast, and it always seemed like there was GODDAM FOG everywhere in the city. Also the screen was placed farther away from ezio, and i hated it. I followed ac3 since the first rumors, and was pleased by the change in npcs, combat, protagonist, and graphics, that looked real, sharpbut not too sharp, and smooth. Ac3 is my favorite. We are on opposite ends of the timeline!!

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 06:18 AM
Oh my god that was... Intense. I can totally see your reasoning. I guess the repetiveness was just too much for me. Also, my first ac game was ac2. So that could also be it. I was new to the ac scene after a friend of mine told me that there was this awesome game where you could jump off buildings and stab people with hidden knives. I looked into ac2 during its marketing campaign before its release and thought "wow this looks interesting but it looks a little too religious for me." i also wasnt interested in history at the time. But, i played it at a friends house and fell in love with it. That game made me obsessed with the rennaisance. So as not to spoil myself, i went back and played through ac1 first before buying ac2. I loved the gritiness of ac1, and the music, but the repetiveness and the structure of the story was just not to my liking. I played ac2 and felt more connected because it was more emotional and i was longing for customization of clothes and weapons, which was what i got. Ac brotherhood was great because it was still rennaisance, but ezio was less annoying. I replayed all three games a few times, ac2 maybe 4 or 5, and then revelations came out. That game was just so awful. The combat was old and annoying, the story was half-assed in my opinion, and the graphics were worse in my opinion. I loved ac2's smooth textures that almost looked like a painting. Brotherhood was good becuase it was still smooth but better looking. I felt that revelations was too sharp, too much contrast, and it always seemed like there was GODDAM FOG everywhere in the city. Also the screen was placed farther away from ezio, and i hated it. I followed ac3 since the first rumors, and was pleased by the change in npcs, combat, protagonist, and graphics, that looked real, sharpbut not too sharp, and smooth. Ac3 is my favorite. We are on opposite ends of the timeline!!
Not too much Opposite xD

AC III is my favorite too and here`s the second surprise.....2nd favorite is ACR:p and AC I is basically on the same level or at least half a notch above ACR.......leave 500 meters of dirt, then come ACB and AC II:p

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 06:32 AM
Not too much Opposite xD

AC III is my favorite too and here`s the second surprise.....2nd favorite is ACR:p and AC I is basically on the same level or at least half a notch above ACR.......leave 500 meters of dirt, then come ACB and AC II:p

So is altair your favorite?

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 06:35 AM
So is altair your favorite?
Connor and Altair are probably on the same rank....Not Altair of Revelations, though..as far as I`m concerned, that wasn't Altair...The Young one at least. I hated the change to his voice. It was just ugly and his accent sounded so fake. I mean they could`v brought an actual Arab to do it. His pronunciation of Arabic hurt my ears so bad and the pitch of his voice....Just ugly compared to the cold yet soft voice of AC I..

I loved Ezio too, though, but I like Connor way more...

montagemik
01-02-2013, 06:55 AM
Thanks for the motivational :) and wow your probably the first one i know to call ac2 worst. Buckle up

Errm +1 - AC-2 is the 5th in my list of AC games too .................It had lots of great new additions - Most of the characters & story were great, But Ezio annoyed the hell out of me - cocky little brat mostly (didn't like Ezio until AC-R )
AC-2 also had a ton of bugs glitches / partly broken DLC / dodgy controls & Frame rate issues at times, & 0 mission/ memory replay, :confused:
( like AC-3 , It tried to do too much too soon i think) .

My list in order of preferance as follows, Based on initial impact & opinion after completing each one at the time of their release - I'm not comparing tech / graphics :-
AC-1 ...............Altair was just a great character for me , i was sold on the whole series after my first hour of playing - I liked being this Assassin guy. ( I'd buy an updated re-make)
AC-B
AC-3
AC-R
AC-2

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 07:15 AM
Connor and Altair are probably on the same rank....Not Altair of Revelations, though..as far as I`m concerned, that wasn't Altair...The Young one at least. I hated the change to his voice. It was just ugly and his accent sounded so fake. I mean they could`v brought an actual Arab to do it. His pronunciation of Arabic hurt my ears so bad and the pitch of his voice....Just ugly compared to the cold yet soft voice of AC I..

I loved Ezio too, though, but I like Connor way more...

Atair did sound like an american in ac1 though..

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 07:19 AM
Atair did sound like an american in ac1 though..
I didn't mind. his Voice actor was an Iranian-Arab and he was asked to do an American accent instead of an Arab one for some reason and in the rare times he spoke Arabic, it felt so organic and real. He pronounced the names perfectly and in my book, that`s so much better than a fake middle eastern accent...

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 07:20 AM
My list from best to worst is as follows:

1. Ac3
2. AcB
3. Ac2
4.Ac1
5. AcR

I think connor is the best character, and its a tie between altair and ezio. Altair was a badass in ac1 but really arrogant for the first portion of the game so that was annoying.
Ezio was funny, but he annoyed me so much in Ac2 and that italian accent sounds fake to me.


Its funny how nobody is paying attention to AC liberation. Aveline is hot, but i heard thw game/ story was bad and the soundtrack is an insult to assassins creed.

Wolfmeister1010
01-02-2013, 07:22 AM
I didn't mind. his Voice actor was an Iranian-Arab and he was asked to do an American accent instead of an Arab one for some reason and in the rare times he spoke Arabic, it felt so organic and real. He pronounced the names perfectly and in my book, that`s so much better than a fake middle eastern accent...

Oh i just understood. Your from that area! So, if some actor comes in and does an awful job its probably pretty annoying.

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 07:27 AM
Oh i just understood. Your from that area! So, if some actor comes in and does an awful job its probably pretty annoying.
Indeed. I expected Cas Anvar (Altair`s VA in Revelations) to at least try harder and do a decent Job at replacing Shahbaz, but it sounded like any other Arab in every Generic American movie about Terrorists..

I started to warm up to him as he got older in ACR, though..His deeper voice was more justified then at least..

TrueAssassin77
01-02-2013, 07:32 AM
Connor ftw

lothario-da-be
01-02-2013, 12:46 PM
All the reasons you stated above are correct. just a point i`d like to make is that AC III had the worst mission ever created in an AC game. The battle of Concord. Riding a horse (Which is broken) going back and forth pressing R1...How is this fun ? AC I may have been repetitive, AC II may have had stretched out and Unnecessary missions, ACB may have boring missions and ACR may have had uninspired missions, but never did any one mission in any of those have it as broken, or as tedious or as stupid as the battle of Concord, so I believe people may be justified with their complaints in some horrible instances of mission design.

My Favorite cites are Damascus and Constantinople. NY and Boston may not be as pretty, but I appreciated the detail and remarkable accuracy and that`s, at the end of the day, what matters most for me.

So Yes, I completely approve of this and understand most of the complaints. Some; however, make zero sense to me..
Constantinye is the best for me, but as you said the ones of ac3 are more detailed. The perfect match would be remaking constantinopel with the details of ac3.

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 12:49 PM
The perfect match would be remaking constantinopel with the details of ac3.
I`d love that:eek:

she-assassin
01-02-2013, 02:35 PM
The Investigations, The Freedom, The grayness, The Atmosphere and Altair.

I`v been following AC I since it`s announcement, but I forgot about it near its release and i saw it after its release at a friend`s. I thought I`d give it a try. fell in love, bought it. I did not know about the present day bit, because when I tried the game, I was instantly in the past, anyways. The third Crusade is one of my favorite times in history, but I never really thought how different it is to actually play it. The music, the cities and Characters all made this a complete experience. The feeling of being a part of an Order, the sternness of Al-Mualim, the arrogance of a young Protagonist. it was all so perfect. The Talk and Philosophy, the artifact and templars. I was just hooked in. combine with that the Mystery of the Present day of Desmond Miles, Warren and Lucy. The amazing thing is that it took just 3 characters and a few emails to build absolute suspense. The cities were just magnificent too. The Culture in Damascus, the duality and holiness of Jerusalem and the death and grittiness of Acre. Conflicting Atmospheres with conflicting people talking about both sides of the war and i`m just laughing about how I`m a part of something so much larger. passing by the heralds screaming their beliefs and how God is on their side while Altair just passed by..marvelous.

The Investigations were a system that I SORELY wished they`d refine in AC II, but alas, they just scrapped it. The investigation is what makes me feel like an Assassin. I didn't care if it was repetitive, all I knew is that this system simply needed variety and more meat to it. The maps and letters I retrieved from pick pocketing, the events and Information I heard from eaves dropping, the dedication and violence i saw from interrogation and the feeling of "We`re everywhere" I found from the Informants. It was just fascinating and it made the world feel alive. I used every bit of information I gathered potently. I scouted the area of my intended Assassination and actually planned where and when I`ll strike and through which route will I make my escape. I usually just sat down on a bench to scout my area and immerse myself better. I was mind blown by how the areas were designed to have numerous opportunities for assassination and dozens of escape routes. It all felt so free..Hell I could even just pull my sword and screw you all Rambo style..even though AC I had the least elements of stealth, It used each to it`s maximum potential and thus I felt content after every escape.

Altair was just Awesome. He was cold and calculating. arrogant and brash at the start and showing signs of repent during the middle. His tone was usually condescending to his peers, but it all changed and I felt it. he became humbled and more tolerant to insults and sarcasm. he accepted responsibility for his actions and has in doing so redeemed his honor and legacy. each target he slew made him ask questions and demand answers. His enemies seemed no worse than the Assassins themselves, the questions Altair asked made ME ask them as well. there was doubt in my work, am I right ? Are these really criminals ? I was asking questions till AC II was announced. The Characters in this game are just so deep. I did not need a Joker, fun loving, Assassin who sleeps with every moving thing. all I wanted was Altair and the cast of AC I.

If I never loved AC I, I`d have never come this far and AC would`v just been another bump in the road..

I think I love you. You've just stated all the reasons why I love AC1 so much and why it's my favourite game of the series. I especially liked the bit about the modern day characters. They managed to create an intriguing plot with three characters and little to no interaction between them and literally no gameplay, that's pretty amazing. I still think the modern day story has always been awfully underappreciated, it's not like the writers had a beautiful setting and an interesting gameplay to help them make it work.

Also, I agree about ACR's Altair. The Altair in Revelations is not Altair to me. A different face, different voice, even different personality, I couldn't identify with him no matter how hard I tried and he's my favourite character. And I absolutely adored his AC1 voice. I don't care that he didn't have an authentic accent, because the voice actor still managed to get his character right, and that's more important than a correct accent.

Sushiglutton
01-02-2013, 02:43 PM
I don't hate AC3, I like it a lot. But to me it has many issues. The biggest ones being mission design and the quality of the core gameplay mechanics.

SaintPerkele
01-02-2013, 03:16 PM
My Favorite cites are Damascus and Constantinople.
Finally someone who thinks the same :D Although I have much love for San Gimignano too, the city noone ever seems to care about.

Just for the record, I loved NY too (Boston was nice, but there weren't many things that made the city stand out and memorable, apart from the harbour), it's a shame that most missions there were pretty linear. And that you couldn't enter the brewery outside of that one mission :(

EDIT: Oh I just read your post about ACI.. the best summary of why it is one of the best and most underrated AC games to date. Unfortunately, 'deep' characters and stories are hardly ever appreciated by the modern gaming community. One of the reasons why Ezio gets so much love while Connor and Altair are called 'bland'.

lothario-da-be
01-02-2013, 03:27 PM
Finally someone who thinks the same :D Although I have much love for San Gimignano too, the city noone ever seems to care about.

Just for the record, I loved NY too (Boston was nice, but there weren't many things that made the city stand out and memorable, apart from the harbour), it's a shame that most missions there were pretty linear. And that you couldn't enter the brewery outside of that one mission :(

EDIT: Oh I just read your post about ACI.. the best summary of why it is one of the best and most underrated AC games to date. Unfortunately, 'deep' characters and stories are hardly ever appreciated by the modern gaming community. One of the reasons why Ezio gets so much love while Connor and Altair are called 'bland'.
I completly agree with the edited part!

Cephsus
01-02-2013, 03:59 PM
Connor just didnt really do it for me. He was way to naive and childish, which was fine in his earlier life, but cmon the guy grew up by the end of the game and was still a angry, bitter, navie and a stubborn character. Connor just didnt evolve one bit as he got older, and that was big flaw from their usually great character designs imo.

Templars seem to have gotten the best work done to em, they were do true stars of AC this time around. And their dying speech were great. Top notch!.

hasonmare
01-02-2013, 04:00 PM
The Characters in this game are just so deep. I did not need a Jokerhttp://www.dvxs.info/a129.jpg

ACfan443
01-02-2013, 04:31 PM
My favourite game is AC1, and mainly for the reasons stated by M.
Damascus and Acre are my favourite cities, the colour and music of Damascus, and the dark atmosphere and grittiness of Acre. I also loved how you could actually HEAR what NPCs were saying while roaming around - the beggars, the heralds etc. I feel like in AC3 it's just a load of meaningless mumbling, it doesn't feel as alive. The landmarks and buildings were amazing, huge cathedrals and dense buildings were always fun to climb, and rooftop running was a lot more fun.
Having said that, I do like Connor because he's realistic and a lot like Altair.

ACfan443
01-02-2013, 04:33 PM
My favourite game is AC1, and mainly for the reasons stated by M.
Damascus and Acre are my favourite cities, the colour and music of Damascus, and the dark atmosphere and grittiness of Acre. I also loved how you could actually HEAR what NPCs were saying while roaming around - the beggars, the heralds etc. I feel like in AC3 it's just a load of meaningless mumbling, it doesn't feel as alive. The landmarks and buildings (in AC1) were amazing, huge cathedrals and dense buildings were always fun to climb, and rooftop running was a lot more fun.
Having said that, I do like Connor because he's realistic and a lot like Altair.

Megas_Doux
01-02-2013, 04:48 PM
Despite ACII being my favorite one, I kinda agree with some of its "haters" reasons! Lack of background music and some of the linear missions are a letdown! However I liked itfs cities, mainly NY, that although not as pretty as huge favorites of mine like Damascus, Acre, Venice, Florence and Constantinople, is really fun to "navigate" mostly the docks area.......

NY, at least to me, is HUGELY UNDERRATED!!!!!

SixKeys
01-02-2013, 05:41 PM
I don't understand why Tuscany or Forli don't count in this poll. My favorite AC2 city is Tuscany. My other favorite is Damascus (AC1).

I don't hate AC3, I even think it's a decent game. As an AC game it's not much better than ACR though and that's pretty disappointing for a game that was in development for 3 years. AC1 is my favorite game in the series and Alta´r my favorite assassin, so I don't think I was spoiled by the Ezio games. I don't even have a problem with Connor's character, I think he's believably written. His voice-acting could be a lot better and Haytham would have been a far more interesting protagonist IMO, but for the story they were trying to tell, Connor is all right.

Where the game fails for me is mainly in the pacing and writing, the amount of bugs (many of them game-breaking) and general lack of depth and polish compared to the other games. There are many moments where I can see what the writers were going for and the themes they wanted to touch upon with Connor's character, but it just never quite hits the mark. Ezio is a straight-forward character driven by passion and revenge. Perhaps that made him easier to write for, simplistic even, but the themes and emotions in his stories were always clear to the players. Ezio starts out as brash and carefree, he's driven by honor and anger so he doesn't care about making a swift and clean kill to end the person's suffering. As he grows and learns about the creed, the value of life and the rewards of patience, he also learns to take his time in planning an attack and being stealthy. In the end when he finally gets to Rodrigo, he struggles with himself for a moment because his old and new personality are in conflict. On the one hand he knows revenge will not bring him peace, on the other he's still driven by the same passion and anger. By the events of ACB he has learned to let go of his anger and is able to forgive Rodrigo in his final moments. By ACR Ezio has grown weary of anger and vengeance and is ready to exchange passion for a sense of closure. The same themes of revenge and passion and the meaning of the creed are present and clear in every single Ezio game and are (mostly) supported by the gameplay.

Now for the themes of AC3:
Before the release of AC3 the devs kept talking about how Connor was an outsider, never quite fitting in, and how he didn't want to pick sides because the Templars were his only target. In the game though, these themes never quite materialized. White colonists never treated Connor any different because of his heritage. In fact it was surprisingly easy for a native American to convince white people to start riots on his behalf and to trade goods with him. Achilles talks about how Connor might pass for a Spaniard due to his skin color and therefore people might be more accepting of him. This is never brought up again, made all the stranger by the fact that Connor proudly wears his native-inspired robes everywhere he goes. This could have been another theme of the game: Connor's duality in being forced to fit in among the colonists in order to do his job and his pride towards his native heritage. But this is never touched upon. The game never forced you to fight American patriots once you had freed areas (it was possible but always optional, never story-driven), but constantly forced you to fight British soldiers. So there goes the "no picking sides" theme.

Sure, there were contradictions in the Ezio games as well, and I don't give the writers a free pass in those cases. It was especially glaring in ACR and ACB where Ezio would lecture his recruits about the value of human life and not killing innocents while constantly slaying innocent guards himself on a whim. This is a flaw in storytelling; it's presenting a theme that isn't actually backed up by the gameplay. But AC3 had more of this than the Ezio games, that's why it disappointed me more.

predatorpulse7
01-02-2013, 09:38 PM
Everyone loved ac2. It was a gaming masterpiece. People also like brotherhood, but i dont think quite as much, because the story was nit quite as good. Revelations was awful because of a decent at best story combined with same old same old combat and a few awful new additions like tower defense. However, some people believe that ac3 is the worst of the series. This baffles me, so i have set myself to find a reason why people are hating on this game so much.

1. Some dont like connor. Honestly, I believe that these people who hate connor have been spoiled by 3 games of charming ol joking ezio. If you really think about it, connors personality is perfectly suited for the story of the game. While altair was serious and faceless and lacking a personality just because thats who he is, Connor has a reason, and a right to be the way he is. Just look at my forums defending connor, and you will understand why connor is not as bad as some think he is.

2. The music is not as good. I do agree that jesper kyd is way better than balfe, and that his Ac2 score was perfect, i also like balfes nature like, dark, gritty, and batmanlike sound also. Lets not forget that the soundtrack of brotherhood and revelations were no where near as good as ac2 also. The experience was ruined a little by the lack of ambient music, but rest assured (with AssassinM as my witness, ) it is coming back to the game this january.

3. The bugs!!!!. Oh the pbugs. I agree that this game had a bethesda amount of glitches, a departure from the previous ac entrees polish and perfectness. But, i think that it is totally unfair to call a game bad because of the bugs. They can be fixed!!! If the story of a game is bad, that cant be fixed, and that would make the game worse. But bugs are different. When i saw an early review of ac3 with an 7.5 out of 10, it almost killed me with sadness. But, when i saw the reason why it was reviewd badly, i was so relieved. It had the classic good vs bad format, and the tons of good things were offset by a only a few bad, including bad mission design and bugs. It is unfair to call a game broken because of the bugs.
If the bugs are that bad, they will Be fixed.

4. The bad mission design. This is the only one i agree with. For an open world game, there is zero freedom. The mission designs and mission constraint system is infuriating. But, ALL the ac games have had bad mission design. Ac3 is no worse in my opinion.

5. Last but not least, and perhaps the most surprising one, the cities!! Ac2 was gifted by the best cities in the world as playgrounds. I still dream that ubisoft would add a venice dlc to ac3 so i can run around agian but with better gameplay. The cities of rome and istanbul were good, but they lacked the perfectness of florence and venice. I think that some people have not enjoyed ac3 brotherhood, or revelations as much because the cities werent as good. Rome was great, but remember it was in a time of ruin and despair, constantinople was rushed in my opinion, and the low roofs and wide streets of boston and ny make the cities less fun to explore, even with trees and windows to jump through in between. I personally love ny and boston (probably because both of those cities are in my backyard, and my house is in the frontier) but they are not as good as venice or florence, and this is another reason why some think ac3 is worse. I will post a poll to prove why ac2's cities made all the difference.

Well, there you have it. These are my theories for why so many people hate ac3. Remember that not everyone loved ac2 when it first came out,so maybe we just need to give ac3 some time. Also remember that ac3 is the pinnacle of ac gameplay, so... You know...... Ac3 ftw!

You have it wrong, people don't hate AC3, the game is rated in the mid to high 80's almost everywhere, it's just that many expected a game that was better than AC2 and it failed on most fronts in that regard. On its own it is a good game, it's just that the comparisons to AC2 will be made by almost every pundit.

On your points:

1.Connors is THERE, he's not a memorable character and he's not a bad character, hence the blandness that many reviewers talk about. His whole characterization and direction leaves something to be desired if you ask me but the reason why some people "hate" Connor is because he follows one of the most iconic gaming characters this past generation. Again, that inescapable comparison. To me, a good character is one that I would like to see again if another game is made(regardless of the series in question or how big the character is in the story). Connor does not fit the bill. I wanted to like him but I couldn't. I would love a game with Achilles or Haytham though.

2.The music is definitely not as good. There are a couple that went straight into my mp3 player like Fight,Connor's Story and Beer and Friends but most of it is average. The main theme from the Liberation game(with Aveline) is better than than the main theme from AC3 IMO. Balfe did a good job but again, Jesper Kyd is Jesper Kyd(check out some tracks from Darksiders 2 OST, they are great) and although he also has his misses, AC2 is probably his best work in terms of consistency. I like almost all of the tracks on that OST and I'm the kind of person that thinks most game soundtracks are kind of crap with 1-2 decent tracks at most. AC2's OST is pure inspiration from Kyd and he couldn't top himself in Brohood and Revelations. I agree with you on the ambient music.

3.You know what, I must be in the 5% that rarely got bugs judging by how often the word BUGS is mentioned on these forums. I played a ton of AC3 and I barely had 5 bugs or so.

4.Yes, there was some awful mission design in some AC3 missions but that's only part of the story. On the whole, missions have been getting easier and sloppier since at least Brohood and in AC3 it's made worse in certain missions due to the controls. I had my "let me break the monitor right now" moments in past games(100% sync on tank mission in brohood anyone?) but AC3 has both frustrating and literally stupid design choices for some important missions.
Assassin M already spoke about the battle of Concord so I won't. The mission where you have to protect washington and his 2 bodyguards(to get 100% sync you also need to kill 2 militia) is done in a sort of slow mo and those ******* guards die in one hit so if Hickey is even near them you might as well restart. Oh, and the crowd is in your way and you know Connor will trip if he even elbows past someone. I wanted to 100% this bad so I kept pushing on and on my 20th try or something Hickey tripped in the crowd and only then I could do what I was supposed to do. Basically I luck'ed out. Another stupid mission was the one where you chased Hickey through NY. I caught him pretty fast but I've heard of people chasing this guy forever and if I remember, you couldn't touch civilians if you wanted 100% on that mission. Or the seriously mediocre chase sequence for Charles Lee, not to mention the Haytham fight where you repeteadly bump him into barrels or others objects.

The people at Ubi really need to think things through mission design-wise for the fourth game because the formula is getting stale, if it isn't already.

5. Yeah, the people love AC2 cities and I think it has to do with the awe inspiring architecture and aesthetics of Renaissance Era Italy. But more important than the cities was the whole package, the views, the ambient sound, the characters populating the game and the sense that the guy you were controlling was building towards something big, the assassination of the Pope and revenge for Ezio's family. AC2 and Brohood are the only AC games where I've just sat back and explored without worrying about objectives,chests,flags and so on. Exploration for exploration's sake. Constantinopole was very pretty as well but many of the neighbourhoods looked too similar and it doesn't have as many recognizable objectives like the Italian cities, other than Galata Tower and Hagia Sophia.The problem with the American move was that it essentially took AC series from the city to the country. Without looking it up, what's your favourite building in NY or Boston? I feel kinda bad writing this because obviously a lot of people put work in to make these detalied and lively places but after seeing the outstanding cities from past games it is hard to be impressed by one story high houses and the odd church here or there.

At the end, let me re-iterate, people don't HATE AC3, maybe they didn't love it as much as you did. I played the hell out of this, bought DLC, made it to level 50 on the multiplayer but for me(and many others I would wager) it's simply not as great as AC2, even though it has better graphics and gameplay, in many other areas it simply doesn't match up to its precedessor. And if I wanted to find nitpicks on the multiplayer side, while it is a more polished product than Revelations MP, I still find the Brohood multiplayer better.

RexNovus
01-02-2013, 09:41 PM
Acre, Damascus, Rome.

My favourite cities. Rome for it's scale, beauty and landmarks, Acre for it's gritty look (the best atmosphere any city had so far), Damascus for it's culture and how colourful it is (quite the contrary of Acre).

AC 1 was great, Alta´r was great, the cities were great, Masyaf was great, the whole intersection between the cities was great looking (but lack of missions there), Desmond's story was great, Lucy and Vidic were great. Missions were a bit repetetive (eavesdropping, pickpocket, race, etc.), Assassinations were great, targets were great.

AC 2 was great, Ezio was great, the cities were great, but not as good as AC1's cities. It lacked the gritty, realistic feeling of the AC1 cities, too colourful, to fake, the story was great, Desmond's story was.. mediocre.

AC Brotherhood was good, Ezio was good, Rome was great. I loved it, even though it was too colourful aswell, but.. my passion and love for Rome make me perhaps a bit biased ^^, The scale was great, so much to see and do, so many great landmarks. Desmond's story was ok, great climax (which was ****ed over in Revelations, and especially AC3). Best Multiplayer.

AC Revelations, average. Ezio was good, Constantinople was good. Not very familiar with the city and landmarks, for which I can't blame Ubisoft ofcourse. Desmond's story is medicore, Alta´r was handled a bit weak, missions were a bit lackluster. Bad multiplayer.

AC3 is poor. Connor is bad, don't care one bit for Boston or New York; nothing stood out. Frontier was lackluster, hunting gets boring fast. Missions were boring, especially compared to AC1 assasinations. Desmonds story was crap, face off with Vidic was crap, Cross was crap, Brotherhood ending was handles in a crappy way, ending to Desmond's story was crap. Only interesting characters to me were Lee and Haytham. Bad multiplayer, problems from previous games weren't fixed.

Ranking of the games from best to worst: AC1. AC2, AC Brotherhood (great MP though), AC Revelations, AC 3.

predatorpulse7
01-02-2013, 09:44 PM
My favourite game is AC1, and mainly for the reasons stated by M.
Damascus and Acre are my favourite cities, the colour and music of Damascus, and the dark atmosphere and grittiness of Acre. I also loved how you could actually HEAR what NPCs were saying while roaming around - the beggars, the heralds etc. I feel like in AC3 it's just a load of meaningless mumbling, it doesn't feel as alive. The landmarks and buildings (in AC1) were amazing, huge cathedrals and dense buildings were always fun to climb, and rooftop running was a lot more fun.
Having said that, I do like Connor because he's realistic and a lot like Altair.

Realistic in what sense?

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 09:49 PM
You have it wrong, people don't hate AC3, the game is rated in the mid to high 80's almost everywhere, it's just that many expected a game that was better than AC2 and it failed on most fronts in that regard. On its own it is a good game, it's just that the comparisons to AC2 will be made by almost every pundit.

On your points:

1.Connors is THERE, he's not a memorable character and he's not a bad character, hence the blandness that many reviewers talk about. His whole characterization and direction leaves something to be desired if you ask me but the reason why some people "hate" Connor is because he follows one of the most iconic gaming characters this past generation. Again, that inescapable comparison. To me, a good character is one that I would like to see again if another game is made(regardless of the series in question or how big the character is in the story). Connor does not fit the bill. I wanted to like him but I couldn't. I would love a game with Achilles or Haytham though.

2.The music is definitely not as good. There are a couple that went straight into my mp3 player like Fight,Connor's Story and Beer and Friends but most of it is average. The main theme from the Liberation game(with Aveline) is better than than the main theme from AC3 IMO. Balfe did a good job but again, Jesper Kyd is Jesper Kyd(check out some tracks from Darksiders 2 OST, they are great) and although he also has his misses, AC2 is probably his best work in terms of consistency. I like almost all of the tracks on that OST and I'm the kind of person that thinks most game soundtracks are kind of crap with 1-2 decent tracks at most. AC2's OST is pure inspiration from Kyd and he couldn't top himself in Brohood and Revelations. I agree with you on the ambient music.

3.You know what, I must be in the 5% that rarely got bugs judging by how often the word BUGS is mentioned on these forums. I played a ton of AC3 and I barely had 5 bugs or so.

4.Yes, there was some awful mission design in some AC3 missions but that's only part of the story. On the whole, missions have been getting easier and sloppier since at least Brohood and in AC3 it's made worse in certain missions due to the controls. I had my "let me break the monitor right now" moments in past games(100% sync on tank mission in brohood anyone?) but AC3 has both frustrating and literally stupid design choices for some important missions.
Assassin M already spoke about the battle of Concord so I won't. The mission where you have to protect washington and his 2 bodyguards(to get 100% sync you also need to kill 2 militia) is done in a sort of slow mo and those ******* guards die in one hit so if Hickey is even near them you might as well restart. Oh, and the crowd is in your way and you know Connor will trip if he even elbows past someone. I wanted to 100% this bad so I kept pushing on and on my 20th try or something Hickey tripped in the crowd and only then I could do what I was supposed to do. Basically I luck'ed out. Another stupid mission was the one where you chased Hickey through NY. I caught him pretty fast but I've heard of people chasing this guy forever and if I remember, you couldn't touch civilians if you wanted 100% on that mission. Or the seriously mediocre chase sequence for Charles Lee, not to mention the Haytham fight where you repeteadly bump him into barrels or others objects.

The people at Ubi really need to think things through mission design-wise for the fourth game because the formula is getting stale, if it isn't already.

5. Yeah, the people love AC2 cities and I think it has to do with the awe inspiring architecture and aesthetics of Renaissance Era Italy. But more important than the cities was the whole package, the views, the ambient sound, the characters populating the game and the sense that the guy you were controlling was building towards something big, the assassination of the Pope and revenge for Ezio's family. AC2 and Brohood are the only AC games where I've just sat back and explored without worrying about objectives,chests,flags and so on. Exploration for exploration's sake. Constantinopole was very pretty as well but many of the neighbourhoods looked too similar and it doesn't have as many recognizable objectives like the Italian cities, other than Galata Tower and Hagia Sophia.The problem with the American move was that it essentially took AC series from the city to the country. Without looking it up, what's your favourite building in NY or Boston? I feel kinda bad writing this because obviously a lot of people put work in to make these detalied and lively places but after seeing the outstanding cities from past games it is hard to be impressed by one story high houses and the odd church here or there.

At the end, let me re-iterate, people don't HATE AC3, maybe they didn't love it as much as you did. I played the hell out of this, bought DLC, made it to level 50 on the multiplayer but for me(and many others I would wager) it's simply not as great as AC2, even though it has better graphics and gameplay, in many other areas it simply doesn't match up to its precedessor. And if I wanted to find nitpicks on the multiplayer side, while it is a more polished product than Revelations MP, I still find the Brohood multiplayer better.
You basically just repeated what he said, which is correct, because all that is not based on just your opinion. he got YOUR opinion wrong, but the general feeling for most of the things he mentioned is correct. People hate Connor, because they expected or were spoiled Ezio, evident by comparisons made all over the internet "Not as charismatic as ezio" for example.

Also, many of the complaints are from bugs. I see it everywhere on Metacritic user scores. giving it a 7 or 6 saying that the only reason they gave it a low score is because of the bugs.

You seem to have agreed with everything else he touched upon...

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 09:50 PM
Realistic in what sense?
You`re going to start this again, aren't you ?

predatorpulse7
01-02-2013, 09:56 PM
One more thing needs to be said about AC1.

Story mattered A LOT and it showed in how the game was presented. There was no multiplayer, it was the first game so they had to get people hooked in. Gameplay wasn't such a big part, they just need to get the freerunning and story right and the game would sell a lot. They were right. Since AC2 onward, the character could do a lot more, both combat and moves wise but as we advanced, the story(and desmond's meta-story) got sloppier overall.

Going back to play AC1 the limited pre-assassination missions still annoy me, the flag collection I still find silly, the fact that Altair can't swim or fight all that well(compared to Ezio or Connor I mean) is jarring in the first hours or so but the biggest advantage of the first game also comes through: CLARITY. You plainly see what kind of a man Altair is and how he has fallen, you see his mentor, you know you have 9 targets, you know that you need to do in order to find and kill said targets and that's it. No city rebuilding, no fancy moves, no collecting cereal box tokens to get a slightly better sword or something like that. Yes, it could get really boring but AC1's simplicity in gameplay also meant that its story was perhaps the tighest out of any AC game. The team working on that game didn't develop DLC, put man hours on multiplayer development and so on. They had to get right 2-3 things: the cities, the characters and their story and the way you moved through said cities.

predatorpulse7
01-02-2013, 10:05 PM
You`re going to start this again, aren't you ?

Start what?

I'd find it just as funny if anyone thought Ezio or Altair were "realistic".

Using a word like REALISTIC for a series like AC(especially for characters) is really stretching it. These guys are wearing weapons on their back and very distinctive clothing(even Altair in his monk wardrobe clearly had a sword and dagger on him).

AC's idea of "blending in" in several games is getting ******s or gypsies near you(yeah Ezio really "blends in") or having a guy that is dressed like this:

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/293110_S/assassins-creed-3-screenshots-leak.jpg

blend easily in the background in a city like NY or Boston.

Assassin_M
01-02-2013, 10:09 PM
Start what?

I'd find it just as funny if anyone thought Ezio or Altair were "realistic".

Using a word like REALISTIC for a series like AC(especially for characters) is really stretching it. These guys are wearing weapons on their back and very distinctive clothing(even Altair in his monk wardrobe clearly had a sword and dagger on him).

AC's idea of "blending in" in several games is getting ******s or gypsies near you(yeah Ezio really "blends in") or having a guy that is dressed like this:

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/293110_S/assassins-creed-3-screenshots-leak.jpg

blend easily in the background in a city like NY or Boston.
I`m positive that that`s not what he meant by realistic..

ACfan443
01-02-2013, 10:42 PM
Start what?

I'd find it just as funny if anyone thought Ezio or Altair were "realistic".

Using a word like REALISTIC for a series like AC(especially for characters) is really stretching it. These guys are wearing weapons on their back and very distinctive clothing(even Altair in his monk wardrobe clearly had a sword and dagger on him).

AC's idea of "blending in" in several games is getting ******s or gypsies near you(yeah Ezio really "blends in") or having a guy that is dressed like this:

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/293110_S/assassins-creed-3-screenshots-leak.jpg

blend easily in the background in a city like NY or Boston.

That's not what I meant by realistic.

I'm talking about Connor's nature, the way he behaves, the way he talks, the way he conveys his emotions. To put it briefly, if my village was burnt down, my mother burnt alive and my people killed, I wouldn't immediately go round cracking jokes or flirting with whatever I saw roaming the streets.

ShadowRage41
01-03-2013, 12:52 AM
I don't hate AC3, I like it a lot. But to me it has many issues. The biggest ones being mission design and the quality of the core gameplay mechanics.
This^^^ is my only real issue with the game, other than that? I enjoyed the game.

Locopells
01-03-2013, 01:35 AM
Wait - you include NY in the poll, bot not the actually playable Forli?!

Assassin_M
01-03-2013, 01:49 AM
Wait - you include NY in the poll, bot not the actually playable Forli?!
You mean that City that the story uses for only 10 minutes ?

Megas_Doux
01-03-2013, 02:10 AM
Fair -and strange- enough, Forli is my second least favorite city in AC, the first one being Rome..........

psf22
01-03-2013, 02:36 AM
Maybe because it's riddled with Illuminati messages and people don't see / understand it. Or they do but their consciousness rejects it... just a theory