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View Full Version : Virtual training in next ACs



CC1138
01-01-2013, 03:29 PM
Am I the only one around here who misses the virtual training? To be specific, I mean the VR training like we had in Brotherhood and even more specifically the combat ones (the other ones where less intersting). I'm the kind of guy who spends a lot of time in the Riddler's Revenge combat challenges in Batman Arkham City or the flawless challenge in Brotherhood, and I really missed that kind of fighting pit in Assassin's Creed III.
I hardly doubt this kind of mode is long and resource consuming to make, especially for a studio of the size of Ubisoft. Plus, they should already have something close internally to test out and tweak their combat system so making one with a leaderboard and a gradual spawn should be pretty quick.
How about you? Would you want this feature to return in future Assassin's Creed installments?

ACfan443
01-01-2013, 03:58 PM
Combat was really badly explained in AC3, which is ironic considering the time they spent rebuilding it and making the animations looks so good. They definitely should have put in a virtual training centre, or a training rink in the homestead like in AC1 and AC2.

CC1138
01-01-2013, 04:05 PM
Yep, it was a good way to master the combat system and it should have been really useful in AC3 to have one.

It's funny though, because I thought these "training" programs were the most challenging things the game had to offer because you're challenging yourself and other players (indirectly) like Tetris or any other score-based games.

Sushiglutton
01-01-2013, 04:34 PM
I would LOVE virtual training to come back for several reasons:

There are way too many tutorial levels in the campaign. Virtual training is a chance to move some of that stuff out of the campaign.
It's a chance to explain some of the finer details in the various systems (for example I never knew you could do double assassinations by holding the high profile button close to guards, before M4TK told me).
It's a test for if the gamepaly is good enough. If stealth, combat and freerunning are fun and addictive as standalone mini-games, then they have reached the level they should!
It creates a lot of fun to be had after the campaign is over.
There is no other old feature I want back more!



Yep, it was a good way to master the combat system and it should have been really useful in AC3 to have one.

It's funny though, because I thought these "training" programs were the most challenging things the game had to offer because you're challenging yourself and other players (indirectly) like Tetris or any other score-based games.

YES, you sir have the right ideas :D! Problem with Brotherhood is that the mechanics were not strong enough for me to want to come back over and over to go for new high scores. So they have to push the mechanics to a point were they are as addictive as tetris. If they manage to create virtual training with stealth, combat and freerunning at that level, then this franchise will be the best ever! Tons of work for the gameplay teams remains to get there though.

CC1138
01-01-2013, 05:01 PM
YES, you sir have the right ideas :D! Problem with Brotherhood is that the mechanics were not strong enough for me to want to come back over and over to go for new high scores. So they have to push the mechanics to a point were they are as addictive as tetris. If they manage to create virtual training with stealth, combat and freerunning at that level, then this franchise will be the best ever! Tons of work for the gameplay teams remains to get there though.

Actually, I thought that Brotherhood's combat system was fundamentally better than AC III's. Yes, Brotherhood's is a little basic and you have better animations and moves in the third but let's take the Batman Arkham fighting system as a benchmark since it's what the creative director of AC III took as reference for combat: the combat system in Batman is called "Free Flow" system, and it's got its name right because the concept of this system is that you can chain basic attacks one way or another to inscrease your combo meter and get rid of all your opponents in a very smooth way (if you're really good, you can end a fight without having your combo broken).

That's what makes the combat so good in the Arkham series, not the animations (that's just aesthetics). In Brotherhood, you can also maintain a flow of your "assassination streaks" with your basic moves and the system never puts you in a situation where you just can't chain your assassinations. It's not the case for AC III, there are too many situations where you will lose your killstreak for sure. For example, when a grenadier throws you some grenades, you have to run or else you'll get hit. But if you do so, you lose your "killstreak" too. The Jagers are the worst of them all: the only way to kill one is to do a special counter (disarming or using your pistol) but you can't kill them offensively and that breaks your combo.

Sushiglutton
01-01-2013, 11:41 PM
Actually, I thought that Brotherhood's combat system was fundamentally better than AC III's. Yes, Brotherhood's is a little basic and you have better animations and moves in the third but let's take the Batman Arkham fighting system as a benchmark since it's what the creative director of AC III took as reference for combat: the combat system in Batman is called "Free Flow" system, and it's got its name right because the concept of this system is that you can chain basic attacks one way or another to inscrease your combo meter and get rid of all your opponents in a very smooth way (if you're really good, you can end a fight without having your combo broken).

That's what makes the combat so good in the Arkham series, not the animations (that's just aesthetics). In Brotherhood, you can also maintain a flow of your "assassination streaks" with your basic moves and the system never puts you in a situation where you just can't chain your assassinations. It's not the case for AC III, there are too many situations where you will lose your killstreak for sure. For example, when a grenadier throws you some grenades, you have to run or else you'll get hit. But if you do so, you lose your "killstreak" too. The Jagers are the worst of them all: the only way to kill one is to do a special counter (disarming or using your pistol) but you can't kill them offensively and that breaks your combo.

I agree with you that there should never be situations where it's impossible to keep the streak going and the AC3 combat failed in that regard. That said I think the combat in AC3 is better than in AC:B by a farily wide margin. There are more moves to choose from, gadgets are incorporated (allthough in a clumsy way) and there are more archetypes that did different things. Ubi is still behind the awesomeness that was Arkham Asylum and even further behind Arkham City.

I don't think the combat in either game was good enough to build a mini-game around.

jamgamerforever
01-02-2013, 12:21 AM
Honestly, I don't mourn the loss of VR missions. I would rather play through actual historical environments and make the occasional mistake, than spend hours in a white background. Plus "Brotherhood"'s VR missions should actually have been called "Challenge missions", given that they were harder than anything you would encounter in the campaign.

I do like a challenge, so if they came back I'd likely take a look, but I don't miss them that much.

CC1138
01-02-2013, 12:22 PM
I agree with you that there should never be situations where it's impossible to keep the streak going and the AC3 combat failed in that regard. That said I think the combat in AC3 is better than in AC:B by a farily wide margin. There are more moves to choose from, gadgets are incorporated (allthough in a clumsy way) and there are more archetypes that did different things. Ubi is still behind the awesomeness that was Arkham Asylum and even further behind Arkham City.

I don't think the combat in either game was good enough to build a mini-game around.

Yeah, I agree the combat was in overall better than ACB and it should have been, since the game is more recent. After playing a lot of ACIII fights, it's true that ACB's mechanics feel already aged. But if they meant to "copy" Batman Arkham, I think Brotherhood was closer to it than AC III: even if they added some things that would make look like it's getting closer such as the disappearance of the lock-on system, the double-counter, the one-button counter... Brotherhood is still fundamentally (that's why I used this word) closer to the Batman Arkham's Free Flow system.
So for a next game, I think it could build on AC III's and Brotherhood system by keeping the mechanics of AC III and allowing us to carry out our killstreak just with the combinations of our basic moves no matter what (no mandatory specific situations or gadgets) just like in Brotherhood and Batman. Also, I think the combat system lacked of a proper dodging move.


Honestly, I don't mourn the loss of VR missions. I would rather play through actual historical environments and make the occasional mistake, than spend hours in a white background. Plus "Brotherhood"'s VR missions should actually have been called "Challenge missions", given that they were harder than anything you would encounter in the campaign.

I do like a challenge, so if they came back I'd likely take a look, but I don't miss them that much.

Like I said at the beginning, I don't think they would require countless hours to make this mode, it's just a white background with some spawns and a leaderboard. And as you said, I don't mourn them too for being some training missions but I'd like them back as challenge missions. It's pretty annoying to run around in a city expecting to gather the maximum amount of guard and still knowing that some sort of VR mode like in Brotherhood would have been faster for that and would spawn a lot more enemies than I could ever gather myself.

Sushiglutton
01-02-2013, 12:30 PM
Yeah, I agree the combat was in overall better than ACB and it should have been, since the game is more recent. After playing a lot of ACIII fights, it's true that ACB's mechanics feel already aged. But if they meant to "copy" Batman Arkham, I think Brotherhood was closer to it than AC III: even if they added some things that would make look like it's getting closer such as the disappearance of the lock-on system, the double-counter, the one-button counter... Brotherhood is still fundamentally (that's why I used this word) closer to the Batman Arkham's Free Flow system.
So for a next game, I think it could build on AC III's and Brotherhood system by keeping the mechanics of AC III and allowing us to carry out our killstreak just with the combinations of our basic moves no matter what (no mandatory specific situations or gadgets) just like in Brotherhood and Batman. Also, I think the combat system lacked of a proper dodging move


I understand your point now. Totally agree with what you said!

lothario-da-be
01-02-2013, 12:35 PM
I didn't used it much in acb.But i want it back, combat tutorials were awfull in ac3.