PDA

View Full Version : The SALUTE issue. ReRevisited



GAF_Hartmann
07-30-2004, 09:06 AM
I apologize in advance if this topic has already been hashed over on these boards but I wanted to bring it up again only because it was the topic of conversation between several players last night on the AFJ server. The question to be posed is this: Is it rude to "Salute" a player after you have shot him down? I believe that it is the sportmanlike way of saying "good fight" or showing respect for your brother in arms who just happens to be flying under a different flag.

Some of the comments that were made were: "Its like rubbing it in their face" "Its the predator mocking his prey". I guess I have read too many books about chivalry in WWI and even in WWII where pilots had the utmost respect for each other and even when they shot a PLANE out of the sky they prayed they saw a chute deploy or when Galland and Bader became friends after his capture, or the story of a Luftwaffe pilot who landed his craft in the Africa desert to rescue and RAF pilot he shot down. He then later braved British AAA fire to drop letters over the RAF airfield (2 times) so the family would know he was wounded.. then later died. One of the players made the comment that it would be OK if it was a WWI sim but this depicts WWII and it did not happen then. Hmmmm... I disagree I guess.

I always salute after an air victory. It is not meant to be rude but only as a sign of respect for my fellow gamers. It could just as easily been me. If this is wrong let me know. I have been saluted after having been shot down and never took it the wrong way. The only thing that I find annoying is when I do get shot down and I offer a "S!" it is not returned by opponent. I find this is one of the few things that seperates us fron the legions of computer gamers out there that throw it in your face when they beat you (insert almost any counterstrike, BF1942, Ravenshield server here.) I guess I like to think that the majority of the flight sim combat types tend to be a little more mature and have a little more respect for the subject matter than most.
Feedback would be appreciated.

- And to all those that I have shot down (about 7 now) and those that have shot me down (about 7000) I offer you this... SALUTE!

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Chickensal/gall08favesm.jpg

GAF_Hartmann
07-30-2004, 09:06 AM
I apologize in advance if this topic has already been hashed over on these boards but I wanted to bring it up again only because it was the topic of conversation between several players last night on the AFJ server. The question to be posed is this: Is it rude to "Salute" a player after you have shot him down? I believe that it is the sportmanlike way of saying "good fight" or showing respect for your brother in arms who just happens to be flying under a different flag.

Some of the comments that were made were: "Its like rubbing it in their face" "Its the predator mocking his prey". I guess I have read too many books about chivalry in WWI and even in WWII where pilots had the utmost respect for each other and even when they shot a PLANE out of the sky they prayed they saw a chute deploy or when Galland and Bader became friends after his capture, or the story of a Luftwaffe pilot who landed his craft in the Africa desert to rescue and RAF pilot he shot down. He then later braved British AAA fire to drop letters over the RAF airfield (2 times) so the family would know he was wounded.. then later died. One of the players made the comment that it would be OK if it was a WWI sim but this depicts WWII and it did not happen then. Hmmmm... I disagree I guess.

I always salute after an air victory. It is not meant to be rude but only as a sign of respect for my fellow gamers. It could just as easily been me. If this is wrong let me know. I have been saluted after having been shot down and never took it the wrong way. The only thing that I find annoying is when I do get shot down and I offer a "S!" it is not returned by opponent. I find this is one of the few things that seperates us fron the legions of computer gamers out there that throw it in your face when they beat you (insert almost any counterstrike, BF1942, Ravenshield server here.) I guess I like to think that the majority of the flight sim combat types tend to be a little more mature and have a little more respect for the subject matter than most.
Feedback would be appreciated.

- And to all those that I have shot down (about 7 now) and those that have shot me down (about 7000) I offer you this... SALUTE!

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Chickensal/gall08favesm.jpg

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-30-2004, 09:13 AM
I only salute if i am the one being shot down, or I salute when my prey salute me.

------------------------------
www.checksix-fr.com (http://www.checksix-fr.com) Il2/FB/AEP co-webmaster

http://www.ubi.com/portals/resources/binary/78/19686.gif http://merlin555.free.fr/fb/signlast.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------
Slot 2 pilot of the Virtual Haute Voltige team, and live video director

http://www.haute-voltige.com/virtualHVteam/concept.htm

ednavar
07-30-2004, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Merlin (FZG_Immel):
I only salute if i am the one being shot down, ...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, that's why I'm considering creating a macro for my stick.. I type it really often http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-30-2004, 09:22 AM
If I'm working hard to evade and still buy the farm, I'll salute. If I work especially hard for a kill, I'll salute. That's about it.

TB

Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

Yellonet
07-30-2004, 09:23 AM
I salute if i feel like it.. not very often if I'm shot down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


- Yellonet

carguy_
07-30-2004, 09:24 AM
I only salute if I think the guy who shot me down/was downed by me put up a very good fight.

http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

Stanger_361st
07-30-2004, 09:25 AM
Quote:I always salute after an air victory. It is not meant to be rude but only as a sign of respect for my fellow gamers. It could just as easily been me. If this is wrong let me know. I have been saluted after having been shot down and never took it the wrong way. The only thing that I find annoying is when I do get shot down and I offer a "S!" it is not returned by opponent. I find this is one of the few things that seperates us fron the legions of computer gamers out there that throw it in your face when they beat you (insert almost any counterstrike, BF1942, Ravenshield server here.) I guess I like to think that the majority of the flight sim combat types tend to be a little more mature and have a little more respect for the subject matter than most.
Feedback would be appreciated."

I agree with ya 100%
I salute as a respect for the other pilot to let them know their was no ill feelings in fight. Sometimes you dont see the salute because of how fast the next text message comes. Happens a lot in the scripted servers doing their auto text.

310th Falcon
07-30-2004, 09:27 AM
S! Hartmann

I agree fully with you. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I believe in Chivalry and respect of my opponent regardless of the situation. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Best Regards http://www.cup.com/kobayashi-dojo/english/aisatsu.gif

http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421522095/0.jpg

Flying_Merkava
07-30-2004, 09:30 AM
I salute REAL military men. Like the National Gaurd at JFK or what's now liberty airport. Some of you guys take this sim too seriously.

----------------------------

This interview was on Nat'l Public Radio (npr) in mid January.
A female was interviewing Marine Corps General Reinwald
about a Boy Scout visit to his base.
She was told the Boy Scouts were to be taught about guns.
She asked, "But you are equiping them to be violent killers." The General replied,
"Well you're equiped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"
The radio went silent and the interview ended. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Merlin (FZG_Immel)
07-30-2004, 09:33 AM
well.. I dont know who is too serious in between you and us..

A civilian do not salute a military.

I only salute real people when im wearing my uniform-

------------------------------
www.checksix-fr.com (http://www.checksix-fr.com) Il2/FB/AEP co-webmaster

http://www.ubi.com/portals/resources/binary/78/19686.gif http://merlin555.free.fr/fb/signlast.jpg
------------------------------------------------------------
Slot 2 pilot of the Virtual Haute Voltige team, and live video director

http://www.haute-voltige.com/virtualHVteam/concept.htm

ruf9ii
07-30-2004, 09:34 AM
i will only salute after an enemy and i duel and it is very tough (will salute if i win or lose), if someone salutes me, and sometimes after im shot down (it has to be a skillful kill tho, no vulching or simple kills like that).
if ur unsure when to use it, just pretend your saying 'good kill'. if its a good kill, salute, otherwise dont worry bout it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

F19_Ob
07-30-2004, 09:44 AM
Unfortunatly the "salute" is only a salute on this board (or similar forums) and not online, for many of us "old" ones.
In the beginning u gladly saluted your opponent and he saluted back. But during the evolution the online playing has gotten more bitter like the topics on the forums. Many automaticly respond in a negative manner, like if they were insulted, and the same online. Personally I nowadays try to avoid saluting.

Its seems more common to react in a negative way than positive.
Even to try to make a friendly input or joke online often get a negative reaction.
--------------------------------------------

In my opinion, nothing has the profound "inpact" that negativity has. it affects u even if u think u're above that sort of thing. And suddenly u become a monster yourself. And then u get embarrassed.
On the other hand nothing seems to surprize people more than a truly friendly gesture. Rare thing "Ob"viosly.
----------------------------------

Most of us are friendly guys I'm sure. But differenses in culture and personality makes us alien in a way, and historically and evolutionally this has always ended in conflict................So the only way to solve this, that I know of, is to become "PALS" ( meaning Buddies, friends, mates and similar).


------------------------------------------


I spell badly in 3 languages so I hope u can detect the trace of positive E in this fight.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Dont forget to record tracks online....only way to get the whole picture. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

p1ngu666
07-30-2004, 10:00 AM
i hardly ever S!, prefer &lt;o. anyways

normaly if its something somebodies done that impressed me, and i normaly say good flying etc instead

i feel silly if i get S!'ed when ive been bounced or done nothing but eat lead

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

IV|JG51Flatspin
07-30-2004, 10:09 AM
How did the Salute go from being a positive thing to negative? Rude?? Unbelievable.

When this sim first got started years ago, it was odd if someone didn't salute (victor and prey), now I nearly fall out of my chair if someone salutes me. Granted, I'm a bomber pilot so usually the prey, but still...

It has affected everyone I think. I have also gone from Saluting everyone I shot down or got shot down by to only those engagements that proved particularly exciting.

But I don't consider it an "in-your-face" remark...not nearly as much as the ground rushing up anyway! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

IV/JG51_Fl@spin

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v222/Flatspin/banner.jpg (http://www.jg51.net)

eXtra_Corrosiv
07-30-2004, 10:09 AM
I wont salute with chat, but I will fly by and waggle my wings.

For the record it is improper for a civi to salute either the flag or a soldier. handshakes and thank yous are appreciated though.

--------------------------------------------
Athlon 3200+ / 2x512 corsair c2pt 3200LL / radeon X800 Pro / Audigy 2 ZS / WinXP / Saitek X45
--------------------------------------------
p4c 3000 -800/ abit ic7/2x512 corsair twin x LL/ bfg 6800u /audigy platinum/ winxp ch fighter stick and usb throttle.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2004, 10:15 AM
I don't automatically salute after an engagement, and usually I make a comment only after a *good* hard-fought scrap.

I also make an effort to do more than cast off a seemingly half-hearted "S!" Those I think are too casual, and usually rub me the wrong way.

If the fight was good, I'll type in something like, "Good reverses there; I was lucky!" or something with some detail.

S! after each kill, to me, is kind of thumbing one's nose.
====================

Keeping in mind, if you want to rub salt in the wounds, nothing wrong with that; this is a competitive sim and that's cricket, too. But even then, I'll use something more imaginative.

Arm_slinger
07-30-2004, 10:19 AM
I don't salute at all, i find it patronising/ gloating. Plus it annoys the F**k out of me when people do it- its a GAME, not military service http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

A.K.A 242Sqn_Kye

"Target for Tonight" the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

www.nightbomber.com/forums (http://www.nightbomber.com/forums)

Also the home of 242 Squadron
http://www.nightbomber.com/242squadron/

civildog
07-30-2004, 10:42 AM
I'll wag my wings at my opponent but that's about it. Other than reaching for my virtual sidearm to fire at my passing enemy when I'm hanging in my chute.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

I often think the whole world is out to get me, but then I remember that some of the smaller nations are neutral.

58th AVG "WannaBees" ...We fly where the angels fear to tread!

Capt.LoneRanger
07-30-2004, 11:00 AM
I salute my opponent(s), if we end a good dogfight the one or other way. I don't think this is something like rubbing it in their faces, but because we're gentlemen and we all do this for fun.

I think that is why I also frequently Salute, if I let a damaged bird go home. This is not war and it allready counts for the objective, so this is fine with me. Pitty that those fleeing birds are shot down by other most of the time.

Anyways, I feel like somebody is playing jokes on me, too, sometimes. But that is not after a good dogfight, but more like I was shot down 3 times in a row 3 seconds after take-off by the same guy basecamping on the only base and then saluting everybody he kills.

I think the difference between me taking it as a honorable "salute" or as a "HA-HA" is the way the guy behaves. In the above example of the basecamper (won't say names), I really felt like '[ZENSORED] yourself!'.
If I get shot down in a fair fight or by an honorable pilot, that is perfectly okay for me.

greets
Capt.LoneRanger


Why is 6 afraid of 7? Cause 7 8 9!

TugZooey
07-30-2004, 11:17 AM
I usually give a "good kill" if I lose and a "good fight" if I win (which isn't all that often). I used to S! but one person responded with a FU2! so I took it that saluting someone after you've downed him to be ridicule.

Overall I find most people to be pretty good sports when downed.

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v221/milank/grab0002.png

TugZooey
07-30-2004, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flying_Merkava:
I salute REAL military men. Like the National Gaurd at JFK or what's now liberty airport. Some of you guys take this sim too seriously.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe S! in game is a military thing but a courtesy thing between two simmers (gamers). I think you are taking S! too seriously.

ThanasisK
07-30-2004, 11:43 AM
I salute if the fight was intense (no matter if I won or lost) and if Im saluted first. Come on guys its a game, what is better to see after each kill
a friendly S! (or equivalent) or "OMFG HAHAHA I PWNED U N00B"

Covino
07-30-2004, 11:49 AM
Saluting is for girlie men. If my killer salutes me, I often take the angry silence approach, but sometimes it's good to top it off with a remark about his small genitalia or him lagging/cheating. This instills fear in your opponent and ensures he never lays a finger on you again.

JG52Uther
07-30-2004, 12:04 PM
I will S! when i get shot down,if i think the other guy got the better of me (not vulching)or i will say GK.I did'nt realise some people think you are gloating if you S! after shooting them down.strange http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/FW.jpg Yeah Baby!!

TX-EcoDragon
07-30-2004, 12:17 PM
I always would salute a reasonable air kill on me, or even a good bomb or rocket kill, and I would usually send one out after splashing the bandit. It wasn't until I flew this sim for about a year that I heard that some people find it insulting. . .I never observed this in any other sim. If I DON'T S!, now that really means something! I find this all a bit silly in truth, and a bit childish, but maybe I am just an old geezer (at 27), in any case I now have this friggin dilema S! or no S!. .. S! no S!. . .

If I do I am being an arrogant meanie, if I don't I am being an arrogant meanie. . .

What do I have to say about this?? Shame
on all you fragile ego'd people who make me have to get all stressed out about how to best be nice to you while playing a video game!

I just can't Win! "You didn't S! me. . you meanie!! What I don't deserve your respect?!?!" or "He just S!'d me, what is he trying to say. . that I am an awful pilot who needs to live in shame!! He is so rude!!"

Man I thought I was an oversenstive guy. . .

I give up. . . no more combat simming for me, back to MSFS. . .

Maybe instead of a S! I should say: no you don't suck, no you are not shamed, you served well, no I am not better than you, you are a worthwhile human being, oh and I should mention that I am a only saluting you because I am a girly man, so you may as well assume that all of those valiant things I just said you are do not apply to me because I am a lowly saluter.

Oh, and to all of my IL-2FB Bretheren whose company I have enjoyed imensely for the past two years, I have this to say:

S!!!!!!!!!!

(Just think of how rude I have been all these years!! Man, I am scumbag!)

Oh and ben . . . We need more cowbell!



:-D

[Edited to add a PC disclaimer to prepare you for my sig]

The following sig has not yet been rated, it may contain full or partial salutage, any statements contained herein should not be regarded as a sign of respect, nor intended as a sign of dissrespect, if you are insulted or otherwise motivated to shoot, vulch or ram me because of said S!, or lackthereof, then do so at your own risk, I may S! you again. . . or I may refrain from S!'ing you again. . proceed at your own risk

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

Northern California Aerobatic Club
http://www.iac38.org/

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

Learn to fly, learn aerobatics, learn to fly a tailwheel at LVK.
http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg

[This message was edited by TX-EcoDragon on Fri July 30 2004 at 11:44 AM.]

tttiger
07-30-2004, 12:32 PM
I can't imagine why anyone would be offended by a S! (well, okay, Stigler, but he's offended by the sun coming up in the morning http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

I salute if I get a kill, I salute if I get killed.

If I'm particularly impressed, I'll add a comment like "Nice Bounce! Never saw ya!"

This is a practice that is common courtesy in every on line sim I've flown. In a WWI sim like Dawn of Aces, it was expected (that WWI chivalry thing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). It isn't unique to IL-2.

Speaking of courtesy, it also is appropriate to thank the host when leaving an arena. Some do, some don't. I do.

As to real life saluting of people in uniform, it's totally incorrect if you are in civilian attire. There is no way the person you are saluting can return your salute.

As a retired military officer, I suggest you don't do it. By tradition, it is an honor you can render only if you are in uniform yourself (and it's an honor to wear the uniform).

Also, the rules for the use of the salute vary from service to service. Some salute indoors, some don't, for example. Too complicated to explain here.

Nothing wrong with giving them a thumbs up, though. Or a smile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

[This message was edited by tttiger on Fri July 30 2004 at 11:42 AM.]

Indianer.
07-30-2004, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thunderbolt56:
If I'm working hard to evade and still buy the farm, I'll salute. If I work especially hard for a kill, I'll salute. That's about it.

TB

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here

http://www.fighter-collection.com/film/img/dark_blue_world.jpg

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

F19_Ob
07-30-2004, 12:56 PM
This was what I ment with my earlier post. So few have answered and we all have different (our own) opinions and we all are resonably nice guys (deep down).

Just different opinions ( even if all good ) is a standard reason for conflict. The way of things eh.....now, add to this some badluck online....he he http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


This wouldnt be a problem if we all became pals......"grouphug" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

ZG77_Nagual
07-30-2004, 01:04 PM
I salute. I generally avoid dogfighting someone I've shot down twice consecutively unless they seek me out. i consider it unfair to deliberately bother pilots who are at a more incipient stage in their learning curve. Nor do I regard anyone as 'prey'.

VF-10_Snacky
07-30-2004, 02:22 PM
I think the whole "Salute" thing is goofy and I chuckle everytime I see it.
It's like treckies at a convention doing the Spock hand salute.lol

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/belushi_1941_4.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2004, 02:51 PM
Patronizing.

That was the word I was looking for earlier, but it was too early. Somebody else used in their reply. Perfect word for the offhand S!

If you don't have the time or desire to be any more specific, or to give more detail, skip it.

Frankly, I'd rather see, "Kicked your behind!" or something like that in the buffer than "S!" Funny though it may seem, actual gloating "gets me" much less than a patronizing S!

faustnik
07-30-2004, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by .Seawolf.:
I think the whole "Salute" thing is goofy and I chuckle everytime I see it.
It's like treckies at a convention doing the Spock hand salute.lol

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/belushi_1941_4.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Live long and prosper.

S!

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
www.7Jg77.com (http://www.7jg77.com) is recruiting
CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31)

LEBillfish
07-30-2004, 03:18 PM
Respect is a funny thing...Most folks believing that are due respect for just existing. Frankly that is a load of doo doo as people may be nice to others, yet that really doesn't mean they respect you....However, they are showing themselves to be someone who "deserves" respect for their courtesy.

Personally, I truley only respect those that have earned it...More often then not it having nothing to do with great success or winning, as it is the person who endures yet keeps their head high when things get tough that will gain my respect. The waitress busting her 6 while people treat her like **** to simply build their own petty small ego's...and yet she remains kind, dignified, and accomodating.

Conversely I only seek the respect of those I admire, so when a person I do not tells me they don't respect me...I simply smile it not meaning much unless their reasons are valid.

They say being a lady or gentleman has nothing to do with status, power or rank....It has to do with a mark of personal class always willing to make others feel better, encourage others to succeed, and most of all never make anyone uncomfortable or embarrassed.


So why "Salute?".....well, I consider it a mark of class and giving respect even when it may not be due. That hopefully taking me one step closer to being a lady, a better person then I may be.

You'll notice when I enter a server I always post.....~Salute All~!!.....I do this to offer my respect to all others I'm about to do battle with or against....So All there. I hope that my confidence means two things to folks...She will fight hard for me as a teammate, and intend on being a worthy opponent so perhaps a warning.

Whenever I am Shot Down....even vulched, you will always see me....~Salute!!~.... Why?...because they got me, and I'd like to think no matter the situation that it is a difficult thing for someone to do true or not. It also gives credit where credit is due FROM ME, not just some game generated macro. A mark of class I hope....If the fight was exceptional meaning they really dominated me, I'll post some detail to further grant praise it having been earned.

When I shoot down an opponent you will always see me ..... ~Salute!!~ .....as it is saying good fight no matter how easy the kill may have been for me as "tough luck and golden BBs" play a big role here. The opponent deserves it, and IMLTHO it is the mark of a good winner, just as important as being a good loser.

If I am part of a group that shoots down an opponent you will see me post ....~Salute!!~, Team Kill.... Giving credit to my teammates as it is very possible I'd not of downed the opponent without them their effort deserving of note and my personal thanks.

If I kill a gunner, am a gunner and get killed the same...always a ....~Salute!!~.... as if I get the kill how low of me would it be to ignore the contribution and risk they took....Fighter Jocks get all the glory, Bomber pilots all the credit....The Gunner protecting both with weak weapons.

As I leave a server I always post ..... ~Salute All~!!..... for those I may have downed and that downed me....Those who out smarted me I could not find and those of my team that helped take the heat off me....To all as it was earned by all playing.


My upsets and rants are better left to Pager messages and emails. Sure I have a temper, yet I am ashamed of the times I lose it it not showing how mad I am simply how little control I have over myself yet more so how easily another can affect me deeply.

Tough guys that never salute?....well that's fine, we all I suppose must try and make ourselves feel like more then we are....Though to be frank, I find those that cannot Salute because they are "So good" often the ones that make me chuckle as they rant and rave calling you a cheat.

This is a sim....The point for me to make it as real as possible, so lets talk real.

WWI the classic battle ending with Charles Guynemer Saluting Ernst Udet....Both names you all should know the battel as well, well documented...Guynemer one of the most loved aces and finest fighter pilots of his day...Granting mercy for a battle well fought realizing he had his opponent.

WWII, I saw an interview of Spitfire pilots during BoB....quite a few of them would simply after a bit of hammering simply stop shooting the plane they were attacking..."not having the heart for it" as one would say.....A couple mentioning pulling along side, the German Pilot Saluting him...as his plane burned and down into the sea he went with the Spit Pilot Salute him back.........


This is a sim....we risk nothing except our own reputation as a good winner and good loser....Ladies and Gentlemen......So if men filled with anger and hate, real blood lust deserved fighting for their homelands, friends and families when about to die can show such class............I think I can make the small effort it takes here to show the respect for their sacrifices and the high standards of Honor they set.

Don't Salute me....that is fine, it only making me feel superior....Yet I will always ~Salute~!! my opponents and teammates. If not for my own credibility, class and reputation as a worthy opponent......Then at the very least not to Insult those that lived it for real.


~Salute All~!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

BlackShrike
07-30-2004, 03:33 PM
saluting the guy you kill. it is patronizing. it is bad form. WHY?

because most of the time its an easy kill and the guy never saw you coming. you dive in on a furball and take off his wing and salute him.

thats basically a slap in the face. you both know it was an easy kill so dont salute.

if it was a particularly tough battle tell the guy you kill good fight man or tough battle etc. S is cheesy and fake.

however if you DIE then you may salute the guy letting him know you think he is a great pilot. see the difference? one is giving credit to the killer for what he did and the other is saluting someone who just made a big mistake.


saluting your kill is like saying good job oh wait you made a mistake. or congrats bro you just died !

the guys that salute every kill are thinking what? that we are to assume that the s means hey were both honorable men and i wish to bestow upon you respect for losing your wing? come on. S ing a kill IS an insult plain and simple.

LeadSpitter_
07-30-2004, 03:53 PM
I usually say gk but rarely S online getting kills or being shotdown thats way tyo many S.

Me personally it seems when people S every kill even vulches thats just lame and just to rub it in.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

Ki_Rin
07-30-2004, 04:01 PM
I started online flight combat simming with Janes...then, all one had to worry about was cheaters, and cheap rev killers...(in FB no cheating, but manoman, the TK'ers and KSers mofos!)

Anyhow, in Janes then, when one was shot down, especially after a good fight, the LOSER would always satute, or give a "gk" or "ns"...

In FB, I noticed it was the other way round, in regards to saluting...the victor is usually the one saluting

I felt that the loser should salute (or "gk" "ns"), to let the victor know he did a good job, and out of respect...and the victor should usually give at least a &lt;S&gt;! in return, or a "ty", at least...I feel this is natural, after all, its the loser that now has all the time in the world to type, the victor still has potential enemies to worry about, and cant bbother with typing...

This is also the reason some ppl wont respond to a &lt;S&gt;, cuz they have quite a bit on their plates already, ty, hehe, its not to be rude, in many cases

The loseer knows when theyve been beaten by a foe who had to work for it, they are in the best position to &lt;S&gt;...no loser will &lt;S&gt; a for who vulched them...

Which kinda brings me to the next point..some ppl seem to shoot out the &lt;S&gt;'s faster than their noob mk108s can fire...THAT pisses me off...like, why the F*** are you saluting me when you base camped, and nailed (for example) my bomb-laden P47D22 with your noob Ki84C or La7 or whatever, when my gear has barely raised all the way, and I've not even cleared the end of my runway?

when I've really had to work it to kill someone, THEN I will &lt;S&gt; them, or tell good job, made me work for it, etc...

When someone had to work to kill me, I respect that, and give him a &lt;S&gt;, or "gk", "ns", etc....and unless theres no-one else around to possibly threaten him, or his ship is so bad off he has to work hard to keep it flying, I dont expect a response...not that he has to give one, either, but the "classier" pilots will..

As has been said already, one can usually expect better behavior from flight combat simmers, than can be expected from almost any other type of online combat or competition games (dunno if there even is one, but maybe only golf simmers classier, hehe)..even at its peak, when hundreds of ppl were at combat.net?HL playing Janes, most had honour, class, or at least were not ignorant animals...what makes things so different at FB? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Ob.Emann
07-30-2004, 04:09 PM
If the pilot fought honorably and respectfully (by dogfight standards), I salute him.

If the pilot is rude, or is a cheater/warper/LA-7 pilot(http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif), I shoot his parachute full of holes, watch the helpless SOB plummet to his demise, and spit on his corpse. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But in all modesty, its not all that often I shoot someone of conviction down on most servers................

Der Oberst von schlechten Piloten

[This message was edited by Ob.Emann on Fri July 30 2004 at 03:18 PM.]

WUAF_Badsight
07-30-2004, 04:13 PM
i dont like to type "S!" to those who i shoot down

i feel like im actually saying "ha ha"

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Flying_Merkava
07-30-2004, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TugZooey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Flying_Merkava:
I salute REAL military men. Like the National Gaurd at JFK or what's now liberty airport. Some of you guys take this sim too seriously.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't believe S! in game is a military thing but a courtesy thing between two simmers (gamers). I think you are taking S! too seriously.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You don't believe a salute is a military thing? Well you mean not in a game, well that's exactly why I dont salute (a miliraty thing) in a game.

----------------------------

This interview was on Nat'l Public Radio (npr) in mid January.
A female was interviewing Marine Corps General Reinwald
about a Boy Scout visit to his base.
She was told the Boy Scouts were to be taught about guns.
She asked, "But you are equiping them to be violent killers." The General replied,
"Well you're equiped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"
The radio went silent and the interview ended. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

THBF109
07-30-2004, 05:40 PM
I think the comment about Star Trek convention and the Spock thing was head on. That is what I feel about saluting in a gaming environment.

In my country we do never salute in anywhere else but in the Army and find the "tears in their eyes" -saluting seen in every hollywood-movie, no matter what the subject, amusing and naive.

So, i will never salute anybody anywhere, other than in those occasions im wearing a uniform when its normal. If I am saluted in game or web-site, fine but I do ignore it and treat it like he said "Hi!".

In the game i do comment positively if the fight was good or the opponent performed well though. I also find good spirited joking during a fight funny and relaxing. But my comments are not based in any fake "we are the comrades in arms and I truly respect you as a person" -mentality. I might think somebody is particulary good in this or that game but respect them? No, I honestly cant say that i respect people who i dont know at all (or know nothing of) by the fact that they made a nice move with their joystick. I believe such thing is not even possible with the data we have about other players. There needs to be something more before that happens. This has nothing to do how i treat people or talk to them so do not confuse these matters please.

Owlsphone
07-30-2004, 05:56 PM
Wow I had no idea so many people took offense to saluting. When I first saw it online, I too thought it to be weird. Now I just view it as the accepted form of communication between two fellow pilots and no more.

The salute is imaginary. We are only pretending to be pilots in WWII. Heck, anyone ever thought about the virtual squadrons many of us fly in? Well, they aren't real squadrons! So if we're in a pretend situation in WWII, in a pretend squadron, why can't we extend that fantasy just by a simple salute to a pilot that worked hard to shoot down our pretend, virtual planes?

Some people do take this waaay too seriously. Can't you just enjoy something for what it is instead of trying to overanalyze things?

Sorry for ranting, it's just that the salute issue is one that I NEVER would have though have been brought up.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

oisink
07-30-2004, 06:51 PM
I havent been playing online that long, mainly because many of the attitudes one reads on this forum put me off trying it. The first time I Finally shot someone down, I got a s! from the guy and i appreciated it. it might have been a lousy bounce kill to an online ace but to me back then it was my very best effort.

Its similar to sparring with someone in a martial arts class, you'll bow, touch hands, shake, salute whatever after. Mutual respect, regardless of outcome. If you're so wrapped up in yourself that you're too busy being peeved at your mistakes to acknowledge the other guys effort, or worse still, as the victor you think your opponent effort isnt worthy of respect then you really are bit silly IMHO
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I'll S! when i'm either the victim or the victor. If theres people out there whos ego's are so bloated/fragile or are so sensitive that they see an implied insult in friendly gesture..stuff 'em, that attitude wouldnt get them far in real life so why worry about it online?

Ois*n

"N*l sa saol ach gaoth is toit"

civildog
07-30-2004, 07:03 PM
I tend to agree with Owlsphone. People take this game so seriously it sometimes reminds me of my kids playing Dungeons and Dragons; arguing about who's sword is better, etc.. Oh, it makes my head swim.

It's only a game, and I don't care if anyone "salutes" me or not, and I'm too busy flying the dang pane to worry about any goofy "salutes." I guess I just don't take it seriously enough, but I got a real life folks, I play games to decompress and laugh with my friends. Especially in airQuake rooms.


S! Bwa-ha-ha

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

I often think the whole world is out to get me, but then I remember that some of the smaller nations are neutral.

58th AVG "WannaBees" ...We fly where the angels fear to tread!

LEXX_Luthor
07-30-2004, 07:50 PM
.Seawolf. ::<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
It's like treckies at a convention doing the Spock hand salute.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif



__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

BennyMoore
07-30-2004, 09:41 PM
I almost never salute. It takes a real demonstration of skill mixed with a healthy dose of good attitude to make me salute. And when I do, I don't say, "Ess!" I say, "I salute you, sir!"

Most people that I meet online in this game are teen-aged jerks who are looking for cheap excitement and only choose an aerial combat simulator because they just saw a dumb movie like Pearl Harbor.

Most people can't bear to be beaten by a superior pilot in an inferior airplane. Most people will never be caught in a one on one unless they can't possibly avoid it. Some people cannot bear to fight in any plane but the most overly-capable. They are, to sum them up, sore losers. They hide behind tricks to disguise the fact that they are lousy players.

I don't feel that they deserve a salute. I don't take salutes in a negative sense, but then none of the salutes that I receive come from this kind of player. The few that salute me are decent sorts.

The_Gorey
07-30-2004, 09:50 PM
personally i think people S! too much.

i find it quite dumb.

----------------------------------------------
http://www.jg52.com/sigs/gutted.jpg (http://www.jg52.com)



My IL2 movies:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Legend (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Videos/index-2.html) (39mb)
<LI>SuperBeast (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Movies/SuperBeast.wmv) (30.6mb)
[/list]

Fehler
07-31-2004, 01:20 AM
I try and salute anyone that I kill or kills me.

If it offends anyone, well, I dont really care. Too many people wear their feelings on their sleeves. We can thank an overly-politically-correct, prozac fed culture for that. Long live the liberals... LOL!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Aaron_GT
07-31-2004, 01:25 AM
I will salute if shot down in a fair fight. (If I get shot down by a vulcher I don't salute). I also like to salute people I have been winging or cooperating with at the end of my time on a server.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-31-2004, 02:12 AM
I dont do it much if ever in game. But that's because my keyboard is to far away. Same reason I dont use the chat much either, in fact If I am on my own in a game I tend to minimise the chat window so I cant see it at all. Only time I use it is when I am in chat talking to squadie's and usually It's in the format of 'Hi S!'. As for it being insulting? Well as has been proved here some people will get upset about just about anything.
Oh yeah
S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

JG5_UnKle
07-31-2004, 02:44 AM
Squad rule for me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif S! to the victor or victim. Just like saying "good game" or "nice fight".

If people get insulted by it then it really is their problem. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/victoria.stevens/jg5_logo.jpg
JG5 Main Site (http://www.alucinor.com/eismeer)
Public Forum (http://www.alucinor.com/eismeer/forum)

BBB_Hyperion
07-31-2004, 02:52 AM
The Salute issue in its main value did go down the drain. Mostly only the older ones here know when and what its good for.

Simple examples you leave the runway 3 m in the air BANG down and then he hear read a salute. It is getting more stupid when the Player then asks why you dont return the Salute. So in general when the other pilot dont deserve respect for what he archived there should be no salute.
Special that guys that archive things in worse planes and numberus odds against em deserve some respect.
People who fly with a horde of ki84Cs at high alt and incompetently try to down taking off planes should not be proud of their archivement
(cause there is no archivement every half way decent pilot can do this). Also the bad habbit of interfering dogfights of others and then salute cause they shoot down a plane that was obviously busy with other things.

High Ground is not only more agreeable and salubrious, but more convenient from a military point of view; low ground is not only damp and unhealthy, but also disadvantageous for fighting.

Sun Tzu : The Art of War

Regards,
Hyperion

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-31-2004, 03:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Most people that I meet online in this game are teen-aged jerks who are looking for cheap excitement and only choose an aerial combat simulator because they just saw a dumb movie like Pearl Harbor.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Benny I gotta ask this, and I know I shouldn't but I am at work and I have time on my hands to kill. Plus it amuses both me and my collegues.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Why the hell do you play online mate? You seem to have real issues with the youth element both online and offline?

I have seen similar comments from you before on this subject and your starting to sound really bitter and synical mate.

Your recent row with Nanuck is a point in case. A mature individual would simply have backed off and let it lie but you just keep coming back for more?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

I would strongly suggest that you try and understand that this is primarily a gaming comunity and that as such there will always be a large group of what you call 'teenage jerks' online.

Also in case it has escaped your attention, summer holidays are here and that generally means the teenage participation both in this forum and online has increased.

FFS try and get a long will you ? They are not ALL 'JERKS' so I am told? And some of them can be quite pleasent if you give em a chance, honest! as most of us know the ones that can't will learn the hard way like we all do and like you and me probably did.

If your comments were deliberatly intended to be trollish and provocative then please by all means disregard my question. And I stand suitably ashamed of myself for falling for it, Well done S!

But let me tell yah if your hoping its gona get better it wont in fact as you probably know already there are more of them than you and I and they are gona be here longer than both of us.

If you think 'biatching' about them here is some how gona persuade OLEG to create some sort of age of consent patch for il2 I am pretty sure he wont.

Should il2 Come with some sort of age limit? Is that what you are saying? Is there a necessity for a liscence on fun and who in your opinion is qualified?

If what I say upsets you then I am sorry. If it doesn't then fine, but I just dont understand why you continue to torture yourself in this manner?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Oh and before you criticise me for using 'FFS' or any of my spelling. Dont bother hundreds of folk have tried and failed and they were far more qualified than you.

All the best S!

BaLrOg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

F19_Olli72
07-31-2004, 03:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:

Should il2 Come with some sort of age limit? Is that what you are saying?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just discovered something odd, FB is age rated 11+, but AEP is rated 7+ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/screenshotart/SIG_G50.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-31-2004, 03:08 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

LMFAO good observation


I SALUTE YOUR SIR S!


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

Ki_Rin
07-31-2004, 04:41 AM
I just discovered something odd, FB is age rated 11+, but AEP is rated 7+ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thats because with the inclusion of the 109Z, even the kids from grade 2 can be an ace! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Fehler
07-31-2004, 05:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ki_Rin:
I just discovered something odd, FB is age rated 11+, but AEP is rated 7+ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thats because with the inclusion of the 109Z, even the kids from grade 2 can be an ace! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Naw, Oleg had a premonition about the 50 cal debates...

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

RedDeth
07-31-2004, 05:42 AM
ive never met an online ace that salutes.or that i can remember. the best pilots dont seem to salute.

i never salute normally. it gives me the heebiee jeebies for some reason.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
07-31-2004, 06:22 AM
Unlike the bitter encrusted old timer Noobs, at least the young have an excuse- age. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Spock! all


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

antifreeze
07-31-2004, 06:23 AM
When I started playing this game two years ago, it wasn't 'Salute' that was said, but 'Salut'. That's the general European (excluding Britain) way of saying 'cheers', 'health', etc, used in a similar context as making a toast with a drink. 'Salute' implies something more military, and seems a bit anal for a game/sim environment. When on occasion someone has given me a good game, I have said 'S' to mean salut; 'cheers'. 'thanks for the fight', 'no hard feelings', not 'I am giving you a military salute even though we are both civilians'.

To help alleviate the confusion, here is a list of English language alternatives to 'Salut' for non-Europeans:
nice shot.
good show.
well done.
good fight.
great flying.

And the alternative to 'salute':
-raise your hand to the side of your brow, and with a sharp snapping movent bring your arm down by your side. Type 'I just actually saluted my monitor, dude, even though I'm in my pyjamas and this is just a game.'

<A HREF="http://www.the-vaw.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.9thawacs.com/modules/My_Uploads/user_folders/9th_Antifreeze/il2logo.jpg
</A>

9th AWACS is Recruiting: (http://www.9thawacs.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=19)
Accept all players (16+ years old).
Play FB for fun + VEF/VWF.
Fly when you want to (no minimum).
Training given on request.
Dedicated Teamspeak server.
Several other games played.
Members from all over Europe.

Owlsphone
07-31-2004, 06:24 AM
I've been around since the IL-2 Demo days. That was the first time I was saluted.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif &lt;---That was me.
So I had to be like any new player and ask what the heck S! meant.
Over the years, I think that the salute just changed its meaning for me, not necessarily lost it. From what I can tell, the old-heads that have been around just shrug it off if the "S!" bothers them. It's the new guys that come from different genres of the gaming community that don't know what it means that complain when they see it.

There are many other games out there (such as the Battlefield series for example) where when you are killed, you are mocked/pwned! if you will. People hiding behind their computers harass you and your noobishness and the fact that they are so leet.

Why can't we as a community just appreciate that we have it so darn good. We have the best community out of any genre of gaming. No one means to salute out of mockery. Quite frankly, I'm kind of pi$$ed that every time I salute online, I'm going to be afraid that I'm going to offend someone over something so stupid. Not to say that I am going to stop saluting...

~S~ all.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Owlsphone/Sig.jpg
Vertically challenged since 1984.

olaleier
07-31-2004, 06:35 AM
Personally, I don't like "saluting" at all.

I'm not in the military and I don't want to pretend either.

If I want to express something, I'll say it in words or appropriate abbreviaton. That being said, I haven't been on a IL-2 DF server for many many months. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't mind other people doing the S!-thing though, but when the play-pretend-military thing goes to far (look at a few squad forums...) I shake my head.

==================================
http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v30/olaleier/cobrasig.jpg
==================================
Marvin in hyperlobby

Arm_slinger
07-31-2004, 07:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Patronizing.

That was the word I was looking for earlier, but it was too early. Somebody else used in their reply. Perfect word for the offhand S!

If you don't have the time or desire to be any more specific, or to give more detail, skip it.

Frankly, I'd rather see, "Kicked your behind!" or something like that in the buffer than "S!" Funny though it may seem, actual gloating "gets me" much less than a patronizing S!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

gladi helped you remember http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

A.K.A 242Sqn_Kye

"Target for Tonight" the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

www.nightbomber.com/forums (http://www.nightbomber.com/forums)

Also the home of 242 Squadron
http://www.nightbomber.com/242squadron/

Monson74
07-31-2004, 07:52 AM
I think S!ing is a good habit - you show your respect to the guy you just downed regardless of how you did it & if you get shot down yourself you do it to say that you accept your defeat & there's no hard feelings. I learned it playing RB3D & continued doing so with IL2 but was surprised to see how few knew what it meant. There was a debate on it & people took it up - it's a shame if people forget how nice it is to play a gentlemans game. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

Monson


"The Zerst¶rers will form an offensive circle." - G¶ring

Aaron_GT
07-31-2004, 08:18 AM
If praising a kill by an ally I tend to use "JGS" for "Jolly Good Show".

x6BL_Brando
07-31-2004, 09:23 AM
So what is a salute anyway? It's a gesture of the hand towards the head or the heart, or sometimes both depending on cultural background. It could be a nod of the head or a formal bow, or it could be some sky-scratching thing like the Nazi's used. In the military (or, in the last mentioned case, a militarised population) it has been ritualised and a strict protocol is observed. Only saluting an officer if he is wearing a hat is a British example of these military regulations. In fact, the military salute is about discipline and submission to authority and doesn't have a lot to do with admiration. You absolutely HAVE to salute a properly attired officer even if he is the biggest b*****d you ever met, but only if YOU are correctly dressed as well - otherwise it would be seen (according to regs) as disrespectful. In modern armies this tends to work both ways (I.e. respect on both sides) but the basis is the need for orders to be passed and executed without dissent...

But this is a game.....played by civilians mostly, some ex-service people and a few serving personnel. Whilst some of us are in 'squads' and others may be so immersed that they believe they're living in a slit trench, we're just a loose 'community' of gamers who may or may not have any feelings towards our allies and opponents. What I mean is that the salute reverts to the nod, or wave, or bow that we may great friends and neighbours with....a gesture of respect and kinship. In this un-regulated state it is much more clear.

One or two fingers raised has a certain meaning which is not represented, imo, by the &lt;S&gt; salute. Nor does it suggest a shaken fist or a Bronx cheer except perhaps to people with some kind of inferiority complex. For the record, I salute (as in a cheery wave) when I can ~S~ - to both friend and 'foe' if the occasion warrants it. With only one hand I can't do the chatbox if I'm in the thick of a fight - but I try to acknowledge good, honourable flying as soon as I get clear.

I would hate to see the &lt;S&gt; disappear because of a few peoples' paranoia or arrogance about its meaning. It is just shorthand for a smile.

A hearty salute to you all - except the ones who would be offended by my hatlessness! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif My advice to the latter is.... "Get over it!"

LEBillfish
07-31-2004, 10:04 AM
I'm reading through all this and am starting to see two excuses why folks "don't" Salute, yet one reason that I didn't even think to add in my first post on page 2...

The first "excuse" being "I'm not in the military, it's a military thing or I was in the military...so it's insulting to me and on top of it I only Salute those I know are"....

Well what folks forget is that "Salute" does not always mean a rigid at attention quick snap thumb and forefinger to the brow....Or all the Italians would be banging their heads with shot glasses. Salute simply an abbreviated expression for Congratulations, Best Wishes, etc. or as the dictionary says....

"To address with expressions of kind wishes, courtesy and honor...To give a sign of respect, courtesy or goodwill, to greet...etc. etc.....a sign, token or ceremony expressing goodwill, compliment, or respect"...

Having nothing to do with a Snap To Attention, lift the visor and show your weapon hand free. That is for those in the Military....Us here hopefully just showing we are good sports, offering our kind wishes.

The other "excuse" more honest really...."I don't salute them unless I like them, they really really impressed me, or ever if at all"...In the end reading through it having multiple reasons why not to...none to. IMLTHO basically saying "I am grappling so hard to win I dare not hand out one shred of commendation to another lest someone thinks I lost and am not the best".

That is why in many other sims like RB3d it is considered poor form/sportsmanship to not "Salute" ...everyone....win or lose, as everyone can have an excuse why not to, so soon all courtesy lost.

To Salute means you are placing yourself ABOVE the insecure internet tough guys that feel being online grants them all anonymity and the opportunity to get away with anything. It says you have chosen to demonstrate good conduct and sportsmanship...win or lose...and if you look some of that up you'll find that has always been prerequisite #1 of a champion.

Sorry, but I have no need to grapple for every shred of respect and fear from others by not being courteous....I do that with my guns here.

I can afford to humble myself and always....

~SALUTE~!!!

http://www.geocities.com/k2kellyirie/IL2/starnew.txt

Simjock
07-31-2004, 10:06 AM
I saw a gun camera imgae from a BF-109 of a British pilot bailing out of a Hurricane. He lept from the plane, stood at attention in mid air, and saluted the plane that had shot him down.

I always Salute players when entering another persons DF host, when I'm shot down, and when I leave the host, but I rearely Salute after a victory unless the oponent clearly put up a good fight.

But I never take a salute as offensive from anyone, it's a sign of respect.

~Salute

http://www.pcaviation.net/simjocksig.jpeg (http://www.pcaviation.net/)

"Take-off is optional, landing is manditory. When worse comes to worse, just remember to keep the greasy side down."

Simjock
07-31-2004, 10:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by olaleier:
Personally, I don't like "saluting" at all.

I'm not in the military and I don't want to pretend either.

If I want to express something, I'll say it in words or appropriate abbreviaton. That being said, I haven't been on a IL-2 DF server for many many months. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't mind other people doing the S!-thing though, but when the play-pretend-military thing goes to far (look at a few squad forums...) I shake my head.

==================================
http://img2.photobucket.com/albums/v30/olaleier/cobrasig.jpg
==================================
_Marvin in hyperlobby _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to agree here %100. Some Gaming clubs have a tendancy to role play in a military style that just ruins the game. The salute thing is just an IL2 way of saying, "Good Game", or "Nicely Done".

But when gaming clubs take it to extreems and start giving instructions to there members on how to "behave" its gone wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to far.

http://www.pcaviation.net/simjocksig.jpeg (http://www.pcaviation.net/)

"Take-off is optional, landing is manditory. When worse comes to worse, just remember to keep the greasy side down."

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-31-2004, 10:39 AM
Its an interesting perspective that you have there LEBillfish. But ( there is always a but isn't there) I am not sure that people online are giving it quite that much thought during a game , are they ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

I think some folk dont do it simply cos they dont know what it means. Others simply do not take the game to quite that level of relevance and are playing it simply as a game.

Some people are just gona lash out when they get defeated regardless of wether you salute or not. Its the nature of the beast I guess I personally try and ignore it (minimized chat window during flight works for me) but not always.
I would hate to think that anyone would take my lack of response as some kinda 'insult' and I am usually more busy franticaly trying to eject/ manage my engine/ bank / not stall/ land/ or any of the other countless tasks involved in playing this game, rather than grapling for every ounce of respect I can get.

Maybe I am in a minority but I don't come online to get respect. I come online to kick *** (does not happen a lot) chew bubble gum (hate bubble gum actually) and have a laugh now and then which I generally do.

What respect I and others get I am sure we can all agree we get from our friends collegues and family and I dont think any of us really expect to get that from a bunch of so called internet tough guys we will probably only meet once and never see again.

I do on occasion salute but more often as not engage in conversation with an individual post game if I feel we had a entertaining time and feel it is worth while.

I salute (no I aint being funny) your attitude and maybe the fact that you have the time to do so indicates that you are further along the technical learning curve than I am (perhaps your just nicer than I am who knows?). But I am just to dam involved in trying to get better and plan my strategy for my next successful bail out to worry about pseudo honour and respect among gamers. I really do think that it is just something you have to smile about if you get it and shrug and move on if you don't.

Play with friends and at least that way you will get some level of respect but dont expect to get it in a room full of strangers and people that dont know you this goes in life as well as online. In those kinds of situation it really is just a waste of time more often than not and only leaves you feeling annoyed maybe even hurt when you dont get the same response or even a negative one.

Thats just my current philosophy on this and who knows maybe the next time some one salutes me I may just respond for a change.
As I usually play on scripted servers and the bloody chat window is usually spewing a load of targets left and gunstats and who bailed and what team won info. I dare say it will have scrolled past before I even notice and then that person will come here moaning that they never got no respect from some one the last time they saluted. Come on folks lets be realistic for a second. No ?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

RedDeth
07-31-2004, 11:52 AM
the basics are this.

you salute those that kill you. if you wish.

you do NOT salute those that you kill. you may say GF or good fight if yo wish . those have always been the rules.

i come from 4 years in janes lobby . janesww2fighters. those guys never S! ed everyone. and it was a much tighter knit group. but then again i think everyone in the lobby was straight.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-31-2004, 12:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> but then again i think everyone in the lobby was straight.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif OMG!! You mean I am in the company of sexual deviants also. Thats disgusting
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

RACFrankenstein
07-31-2004, 12:40 PM
Billfish: I couldn't agree with you more!

I salute weather I've shot someone down or been shot down. How you take the gesture is not my problem. I mean it as a sign of respect to those I'm playing against. I too come from RB3D where it was considered rude not to Salute after a dogfight. I don't plan to change my ways now.

GAF_Hartmann
07-31-2004, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
the basics are this.

you salute those that kill you. if you wish.

you do NOT salute those that you kill. you may say GF or good fight if yo wish . those have always been the rules.

i come from 4 years in janes lobby . janesww2fighters. those guys never S! ed everyone. and it was a much tighter knit group. but then again i think everyone in the lobby was straight.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"those have always been the rules" ?! ...according to WHO? I guess that is fine if that is the way YOU feel but please do not bestow you spin on the topic as the RULES of the game. Then again I have seen the way to talk to guests on your server (and no I will not give an example... if anyone wants to see they are welcome to join and see for themselves) If that is the way they acted on the Janes servers then I suppose I count myself fortunate for cutting my teeth on RedBaron instead.

The way I see it the group of individuals I play with is as tight a group as I have even been involved with in online gaming. I have been quite impressed with many different squads within IL2 and the positive relationship they have with each other. Axis or Aiied. You will NEVER find that in OGL, TWL or CAL competition for some of the more popular games today.


I will continue to salute (as a gesture of sportmanship - not a roleplay of military life to every opponent I win or lose to) and I encourage everyone else to show the same spirit.

Getting shot out of the sky has yet to hurt my pride.

Salute!

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Chickensal/gall08favesm.jpg

GAU-8
07-31-2004, 02:06 PM
this is as bad as the "motorcyclist wave gesture" " people when riding a cycle get upset because they waved at another cyclist..but they didnt get wave back..and they get feelings hurt.pffft

personally i find it irritating seeing all these S~ everywhere.

i never salute after a kill/or death . i find it ******ed. if it was a good fight,or if they sprung a surprise tactic that scared the sh1t out of me, then i will tell them i was impressed.

i am one of the few that does find an S~ after a cheap pass insulting. i do see it as a face rubbing.

who shakes hands each time a billiards player sinks a ball in the pocket?, who does it everytime a baseball player hits a run to first base? or a golfer, everytime he gets the ball in the hole.? i reserve an S~ 2 times
.when i join a game
.when i leave a game

VOL_Hans
07-31-2004, 04:01 PM
I think the best thing to do would be to leave it up to the person who was shot down.

If you blast a guy, and he gives you a salute, return it. If you blast him, and he dosen't give you one, don't give him one, and don't think anything of it.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

civildog
07-31-2004, 06:31 PM
The whole salutr thing strikes me as really out there, particularly the incredible amount of thought some have put into it.

I mean, here we are playing a game. Getting virtually "shot down" in a pretend battle among a bunch of wannabe fighter pilots. And all this "honor" this and "respect" that! It makes the head swim.

Ya know, if you put this much thought into this game where does it end? Let's really examine this: Do you also pretend to be a Luftwaffe pilot flying to defend the Nazis (or "liberate" the people of Europe and bring them into the fold of National Socialism) and all that that entails? A gallant young IJN pilot flying over Nanking while the troops rape, pillage, and burn? If I started role-playing this game enough to start saluting my gallant enemy and all I don't think I'd have the stomach for flying Axis planes. Besides, I fly almost exclusively Soviet planes in the game and if I wanted to follow my above train of thought then any Hitlerite that doesn't burn in his plane on the way down is going to get a belly full of 12.7mm when he tries to run from his plane. Maybe a I'll use him for target practice while he hangs in his canopy to avenge the deaths of my sisters when his kind burned our village.

And as for "respect" I leave that for were it really counts...REAL LIFE. Respect from my co-workers, family, friends counts for more in my book anything I could get from a pixels with names buzzing around on my CRT.

For that matter, I have more often flown in rooms where everyone (including a great majority of the "respect" fans and deep thinkers in this thread) has ignored my communications as I've called out tallies, warned of attacks, called for cover, and tried to set up coordinated ground attacks. I get "S" -ed but that's it.

When I fly alone online I play a team game with my side. I don't care if someone "steals" my kill, but God help me if I help a brother out by hammering a plane he's shot at but not in position to finish off before it reverses on him. I have been shot down by "teammates" for doing that several times.

I have run out of ammo and allowed myself to be used as a target to protect "teammates", or rammed opponents who are chasing "teammates" rather than let them be shot down several times and all I get is "what an idiot", "get off the server" and nary a thanks from my side.

In fact I think I can count on one had the number of times I've even been "S"-ed by an opponent and those were after flew them into the ground or dropped my bombs behind my sturmovik to catch them in the blast as they chased me rather than be shot down.

So all this "honor and respect" **** sounds like a load of drek to me.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/CivilDogsignatureMASTER2.jpg

58th AVG "WannaBees" ...We fly where the angels fear to tread!

A fast connect speed and the Internet means never having to say you're wrong.

Nug01
07-31-2004, 07:58 PM
Hmmm...well...S!all.

Franzen
07-31-2004, 08:26 PM
I've passed by this topic many times without opening it. I'm glad I finally did. I've learnt something new. I always thought "S!" was representive of "Yesssss!" or something to that effect. I honestly never knew it meant "salute".

This brings me to the point. The reason I never knew what it meant was because I've never seen it used that way. It always seems to be used the way I previously thought. On the servers I fly they just say "GK"(good kill). I had asked the guyz what "S!" meant but they all said they didn't know, it's just something everyone does(except me).

I think it all depends how the "S!" is used and who uses it. Why should it be used unless you actually had a good time consuming fight with someone. A BnZer gets your 6 and suddenly your tail is gone and your falling. If he says "S!" it means "Yessssss!". If you end up in a 15 minute TnB then the defeat deserves to be saluted, as with the victor.

I know of a few aces that use the "S!" after every kill, even after a successful vulch.

So, knowing what I know now gives the "S!" two meanings to me. If you fight a good fight and lose or win, "S!"=salute. But more often I see "S!"=suckerpunch.

I don't see enough honor in this sim. If you don't believe me, just go read a few posts in ORR. For those that do follow the code, I offer a big "S!", not a suckerpunch. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

wayno7777
07-31-2004, 09:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
I think the best thing to do would be to leave it up to the person who was shot down.

If you blast a guy, and he gives you a salute, return it. If you blast him, and he dosen't give you one, don't give him one, and don't think anything of it.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUMP

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/me410-main_1.jpg
Any landing you can walk away from is a good one!

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-01-2004, 02:13 AM
Round and Round it goes where it stops nobody knows.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Ok folks, were starting to repeat each others sentiments here and its turning into a troll magnet. I think the final outcome of this thread has been:-

Some do some don't some will some won't. What difference has all this brain farting made?

Sweet FA

Next topic please!

Here are some suggestions along the lines of this one and equally as pointless:-

THE 'do you shoot chutes issue?'

Or maybe

The 'vulching issue?'

those two are always good for a laugh/row/fight.

Enjoy

S!
&lt;S&gt;

~S~
Salut
Prost
Skoll
Kampi
Yamas

oops left out

Nas Drovia (cyrillic spelling anyone?)
Das Vi Dania (again what does it look like?)

¦P¦E¦A¦C¦E¦

And my personal favourite

Poch Ma Hon!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

[This message was edited by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS on Sun August 01 2004 at 01:59 AM.]

RedDeth
08-01-2004, 02:15 AM
lol hartmann. this is a game. not reality. normal people dont salute a game. or their monitor. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

Fehler
08-01-2004, 03:17 AM
You know, I was giving this whole "Salute" thing more thought and I remembered one of the oddest impressions that I had when I first moved to Texas.

Once you get away from the populated areas like Dallas/Ft. Worth, Houston, and San Antonio, you are immediately confronted with a vast network of two-laned highways. When I first started driving on these roads, I immediately noticed that passing vehicles' drivers ALWAYS gave the one fingered salute (And not the middle finger!) I thought this was odd, but as I lived for a longer time in this great state, it became evident to me that this was some sort of unwritten cultural exchange of which I never experienced anywhere else in the USA. You pass a motorist and salute with your index finger, by lifting it from your steering wheel. Everyone does it, and you can acknowledge it with a nod or a similar salute.

This exchange disappears once you get into a populated area, or should I say it is replaced with the middle finger salute. But honestly, the more populated cities have less true Texans than transplants, by far. So it would stand to reason that these transplanted persons were never truly indoctrinated in Texan driving etiquette.

I have even had relatives visit from the north and all of them have commented on the hospitality of Texans, specifically about the driving salute. When I recently returned to my home state for a vacation, I gave the driving salute to others as I passed them. Most of the time, the passing motorists seemed indifferent to this, but occassionally they were offended!

So what is my point here? Nothing really. I fly mostly on Warclouds, which is physically located in Dallas Texas. So, being educated in indigenous etiquette, I salute all flyers that I either kill or kill me, as long as we cross paths along the way.. ROFL

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

DuxCorvan
08-01-2004, 05:24 AM
I shout: "Die, bast*rd, die!", and order a silver cup to my local goldsmith. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Seriously, this is a game. If I had to salute every guy I kill, i.e., in Bf1942, I would be banned, not for being rude, but for being a pain in the neck.

oisink
08-01-2004, 05:36 AM
" Why should it be used unless you actually had a good time consuming fight with someone. A BnZer gets your 6 and suddenly your tail is gone and your falling. If he says "S!" it means "Yessssss!"."

this mentality that some kills arent "worthy" is cracking me up, someone does what is necessary to shoot you down in flames and it isnt worthy of acknowledgement? Is it his fault that you didnt put up a better fight to make his kill salute worthy?

as a football commentator once said "you can only be as good the challenge the other team puts up"

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ois*n

"N*l sa saol ach gaoth is toit"

F16_txmx
08-01-2004, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
lol hartmann. this is a game. not reality. normal people dont salute a game. or their monitor. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

http://www.fighterjocks.net home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your replies never make any sence to me RedDeth. Why shoulden't you be able to tell the other player salute for a good fight if you feel like it just because it is a game?

"Pay to kill, die to lose..."
http://www.flygflottilj16.se/images/sigs_avatars/txmx_sig.jpg (http://www.flygflottilj16.se)
P4 3GHz | ABIT IC7-G | 1GB DDR PC2700 | Radeon X800 Pro VIVO | Philips 170S4 TFT
Windows XP Professional | DirectX 9.0b | Saitek X45 Hotas | CH Pedals | TrackIR

GAF_Hartmann
08-01-2004, 06:07 AM
Fehler that was a funny post http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


But I have noticed a number of folks talk about when they get killed certain ways they refuse to offer a kind gesture. I admit if I get vulched on a field with no AAA protection or multiple times in a row with no other field to launch from I will become annoyed. However, if I get bounced or am the victim of an expert BnZ pilot... (yeah Fehler I am talkin to you!!)I never have a problem with that. Very VALID tactics and I shoulds kept my head lookin around more and seen it coming. If I get bounced then so be it. ANd to be honest I have always found trying to shoot somebodys wing off while zooming in from above while my speed is ever increasing is not an easy task. I commend BnZ's and those patient enough to get altitude, seach and pounce. (even if I am otherwise engaged) This is war after all. So why should one type of fighting (prolonged turn fighting) be worthy and a quick death from a 190 that you never saw coming not be?

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Chickensal/gall08favesm.jpg

[This message was edited by GAF_Hartmann on Sun August 01 2004 at 05:26 AM.]

GAF_Hartmann
08-01-2004, 06:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
lol hartmann. this is a game. not reality. normal people dont salute a game. or their monitor. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry for the second post in a row but I read Fehlers post first because I kinda figured he might have something intelligent to say... then I moved onto yours RedDeth.

First off I am not saluting a "Monitor" or "the game". I am saluting (not literally snapping to attention with my hand against my brow) I agree that would be foolish but I am mearly typing a kind gesture to another player. You are right this is a game and not reality. I would worry about anyone that actually loses touch with that. But the fact of the matter is that behind each opponent is a real player sitting in front of their desk somewhere on this globe. Regardless of their nationality, race, gender or even if they are "straight" as you say they are still a real person deserving of common respect I believe.

Luckily that respect is shown on other servers, by others players and hosts. I must admit that you have done much to impress me with your logical, well thought out and mature posts on these forums and well as the way you act when talking to other players on your (or your squads?) server. My mental picture of you is soemthing to behold. RedDeth you really ought to give Counterstike a try. I think it mught be much more your style.

http://img15.photobucket.com/albums/v46/Chickensal/gall08favesm.jpg

Franzen
08-01-2004, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by oisink:
" Why should it be used unless you actually had a good time consuming fight with someone. A BnZer gets your 6 and suddenly your tail is gone and your falling. If he says "S!" it means "Yessssss!"."

this mentality that some kills arent "worthy" is cracking me up, someone does what is necessary to shoot you down in flames and it isnt worthy of acknowledgement? Is it his fault that you didnt put up a better fight to make his kill salute worthy?

as a football commentator once said "you can only be as good the challenge the other team puts up"

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ois*n

"N*l sa saol ach gaoth is toit"
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this whole "salute" issue is actually quite silly. Besides the fact that we are all grown or still growing adults(vertically or horizontally) playing a video game, I doubt real enemy pilots saluted each other very often.

Emergency escape manual:

In the event of an emergency bailout during combat, disengage throttle, kill engine, release canopy, release safety harness, jump and tuck, salute(most important), pull rip cord, enjoy the view.

If you do not salute you will be reported to the proper authorities and the enemy will refuse to fight with you.

Ok, now that we've solve that issue, who here rips the tags off off mattresses? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Fritz Franzen

Dawg-of-death
08-01-2004, 10:46 PM
I think the S~ is overmodeled........http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif
Die you little blue smurfs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

S~

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

artjunky
08-02-2004, 01:01 AM
I also think this salute thing is silly.

I never liked being told that I MUST do something out of respect for others and that I MUST do it under predescribed guidlines. I have enough respect to share just don't MAKE me do it YOUR way.

I've watched foriegners in large American gatherings. Why do they feel the need to place their hands on their chest? Isn't it absurd that they should feel presured into giving americanized respect for the dead? What's our flag to them?

If you've ever left the US, you quickly learn that the American way is really but ONE way. Not THE ONLY way. &lt;S&gt;s are just one way of giving respect. They are not the only way to do it though.

I'm American and I just don't do the &lt;S&gt; but you know what, if you deserve respect, for whatever reason, you'll know it. I'll tell you, and I'll do it in my own way.

"Hello," for example. How many different ways are there for us to say hello? Some might say Hi, others might might say "What's up...?" Just so you know, that "hi" may be very improper in other cultures. I'm not just talking about words, I'm talking about the appropriateness of these greetings and how different people, communities and nations communicate respect to each other within and outside of each group.

My point here is that this flight sim community is made up of a staggeringly vast community of people from practically every nation on Earth. Expecting everyone to follow Western Standards of conduct, let alone "American" standards is preposterous. It boarders on an insult.

Please salute if that is the standard of conduct that you are akin to. Just leave it at that. Don't be hurt if they don't &lt;S&gt; and try to understand that not everyone feels the need.

Have a "bronx cheer" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-02-2004, 01:08 AM
Well said artjunky

Spock! all


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

RedDeth
08-02-2004, 01:19 AM
gaf hartmann if you want to salute go ahead. your entitled to your opinion.

i however and the majority of online pilots by these responses believe it to be a wrong opinion.

your insulting pilots by S ing your kills. theres no way of avoiding that fact. nuf said.

if you want to let people know they have great skill after you shot them then tell them that. dont say S!

this is the heart of the matter. 95 percent of pilots that S! put an exclamation point. including you in our server.

that puts an entirely different twist on your so called salute when you put it as S!. then its quite obvious its not a positive statement but a negative. most online gamers see the S! as a negative.

thats all i have to say for now because no one has shown anything positive about saluting the guy you just shot down.

but the guys who have been shot and salute have proved the point that this action is honorable....or cool as it were

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://66.237.29.231/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1088291823_taylor-greycap.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-02-2004, 01:26 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif GOOD GRIEF aint this hoss dead yet ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

LIVE LONG AND PROSPER

DvD!

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

darkhorizon11
08-02-2004, 07:35 AM
This is the dumbest thread I've ever seen. Salute? This isn't world war two the guy you shot down isn't dead or floating in his silk boat, he's sitting behind his desk eating cheetos. Plus not everything is always hunky dory glory in war. Ussually most salutes that were given involved just one finger, thats assuming both pilots were alive to tell the tail....

Close it up Tully...OR call the CDC, stupid is contagous...

Heavy_Weather
08-02-2004, 07:56 AM
salute when saluted http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

"To fly a combat mission is not a trip under the moon. Every attack, every bombing is a dance with death."
- Serafima Amsova-Taranenko: Noggle, Ann (1994): A Dance with Death.

DuxCorvan
08-02-2004, 08:13 AM
http://premium.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Fieldman.bmp

arcadeace
08-02-2004, 08:22 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now I know who that is Dux, its Marty Feldon. But its still the real you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Dawg-of-death
08-02-2004, 02:21 PM
If you don't like it . Piss off then, and die........But you still get one as you go down in flames. I f you don't like my S~, Try and kill me . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif


S~

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

BlackShrike
08-02-2004, 02:24 PM
" posted 02-08-04 13:21
If you don't like it . Piss off then, and die........But you still get one as you go down in flames. I f you don't like my S~, Try and kill me . "

the real reason people dont like the S! symbol.self explanatory quote http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Dawg-of-death
08-02-2004, 04:33 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gifI never die .... just push refly.
I guess the Real pilots of that time realy Killed people .

Have you ever killed anyone?

Just press Refly my freind http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

S~

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

VF-10_Snacky
08-03-2004, 01:00 AM
http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/nimoy2.gif

NUFF SAID?

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/belushi_1941_4.jpg