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michapma
01-29-2004, 07:15 AM
I know there are some of you out there. I would like to learn to do it. Throttle and rpm can be set by gauges if they are accurate enough. (I have noticed that some manifold pressure gauges are not as accurate, but that may have been repaired by now.) Turbulence is a giveaway for gear, and flaps are usually pretty easy to check. Mixture will be more difficult, especially since on my Cougar it shares the same knob as rpm control. I still haven't taken the time to find out whether we can actually read exhaust gas temperature (EGT) in any of the aircraft.

Determining overheating could be a major problem in any aircraft that doesn't have a warning light. I just don't think you can go by the temperature gauges. Radiator position will be another biggie. This is one setting I really wish it were possible to toggle in flight. My squadron likes to ask for engine settings in %, so that would be another problem... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Any thoughts?

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The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

michapma
01-29-2004, 07:15 AM
I know there are some of you out there. I would like to learn to do it. Throttle and rpm can be set by gauges if they are accurate enough. (I have noticed that some manifold pressure gauges are not as accurate, but that may have been repaired by now.) Turbulence is a giveaway for gear, and flaps are usually pretty easy to check. Mixture will be more difficult, especially since on my Cougar it shares the same knob as rpm control. I still haven't taken the time to find out whether we can actually read exhaust gas temperature (EGT) in any of the aircraft.

Determining overheating could be a major problem in any aircraft that doesn't have a warning light. I just don't think you can go by the temperature gauges. Radiator position will be another biggie. This is one setting I really wish it were possible to toggle in flight. My squadron likes to ask for engine settings in %, so that would be another problem... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Any thoughts?

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

SpinSpinSugar
01-29-2004, 07:23 AM
That's a good question. Flying the Hurri campaign you can get away with it fairly easy as there's decent instrument visual queues for RPM; boost (supercharger settings); flap and gear extension speeds and indicators, and oil temperature.

Not sure how easy it would be on other aircraft though. And yes, flying with a squad that calls pitch and throttle in percentages would be extremely difficult without the display.

Interesting to see responses.

Cheers, SSS

Extreme_One
01-29-2004, 07:28 AM
I'd find it very difficult to do away with the HUD.
I rely on my comfort-blanket too much I suppose!

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/raf_sig.jpg

michapma
01-29-2004, 07:36 AM
But you do agree it's a bit of an immersion killer...

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

SeaFireLIV
01-29-2004, 07:39 AM
I try to fly with HUD off as much as possible. The only planes I can do this successfully in is the P40 and the Hurricane.

The P40 has all functional switches plus the valuable `blinking light` when you start overheating.

The Hurri doesn`t have a radiater indicatoer in cockpit, but I can usually wing it.

Most others have indicators, but nothing (internal) for the radiator. So I have to have HUD on with the others, it`s just too dangerous not to!

And I haven`t worked out what dial represents overheating...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Colourpilots.jpg
Another difficult flight to come....

Extreme_One
01-29-2004, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
But you do agree it's a bit of an immersion killer...

http://giap.webhop.info

_http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/_ | http://www.forgottenskies.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed 100%

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/raf_sig.jpg

Rajvosa
01-29-2004, 07:51 AM
Why on earth would you want to turn it off? I mean, on real planes you just take a look at the indicators and know where the flaps and gear are at. In this game it's just annoying and doesn't do anything to make me feel like flying a real WWII fighter. Immersion killerÔ┬┤? Sheesh!

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)

michapma
01-29-2004, 07:52 AM
Well, oil and coolant temperatures should be used to detect overheating, I believe that is how the pilots used it. But I have no general guidelines for operational temperatures. It must be possible to compare the operational temperatures to the overheating message while using the HUD, but at least the oil temperature is usually off the gauge scale.

Probably the pilots didn't stress their engines as hard as we do, I get the impression from manuals that they were restritcted to operating within certain temperature ranges. In this case you are flying more realistically, but possibly putting yourself at a bit of a disadvantage to those using the HUD who are willing to overheat their engines more.

I have the idea that mixture doesn't require precise settings in FB. It may well be possible to go by manifold pressure and/or rpms. Same for the supercharger stages, although it's much easier, you can just go by altitude as long as you remember which stage you're currently in.

I want more cockpit animations! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

michapma
01-29-2004, 08:08 AM
For example, according to the P-40 pilot's notes: "For normal operation, the oil pressure should be between 60 and 80 psi, temperature between 60 and 80 degrees (maximum 95 degrees)." The gauge goes I believe to 100 degrees, but as I recall overheating doesn't occur until well over the 95 degree mark.

Further, it instructs: "If the oil temperature rises above 85 degrees when you are cruising, open the coolant shutters all the way, reduce the power, and dive the airplane slightly." Furthermore, there is a caution box: "Don't dive faster than 250 mph with your shutters open. [The radiator flaps jamming or ripping off at high speeds would be a great touch in FB]! Return to the field and land if the temperature stays high. If the oil overheats when you are climbing, open the cowl shutters and level off. Reduce the power and start a slight dive with the shutters open. If that does not help, go back to the field and land."

The coolant temperature is also regulated by the radiator flaps (i.e., the coolant shutters). Interestingly enough, "For normal ground operations, on takeoff and on landing, the shutters should be in FULL OPEN." I didn't know that about takeoff. "When climbing and cruising, adjust the shutters to maintain a temperature of 85 to 125 degrees. The desired temperature is between 95 and 105 degrees .... On all models except the N a warning light flashes on when the coolant temperature reaches 125 degrees. Whenever the coolant temperature reaches 115 degrees during cruising or 125 degrees while climbing, follow the procedures for oil overheating described in the previous section."

Although in my book it is waaay more fun to obtain flight manuals and fly in FB by them (pilots had to train for each type they flew), it is not financially practical to obtain a flight manual for every plane, and I have no idea where to even obtain them for a lot of Russian aircraft anyway. This is the kind of data I wish 1C:Maddox would release with the sim, much more so than flight performance data.

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

michapma
01-29-2004, 08:13 AM
Rajvosa, don't get me wrong, I've been enjoying IL-2 and FB for quite a while now with it on. "Immersion killer" is a relative phrase. I just think I would enjoy it that much more by actually looking at the indicators, as you say like the pilots did and do. In many cases they are animated. I've gotten used to glowing orange, white, blue and red text on my cockpit glass, but it's yet another challenge to learn to do without it. Or isn't it?

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

Dnmy
01-29-2004, 08:17 AM
Here's no HUD flying:

http://members.home.nl/dnme/tracks/FB/nocockpit.ntrk

michapma
01-29-2004, 08:23 AM
Hi Dnmy,


Tully mentioned in another thread that you once made a track shooting down a bunch of ace AI. Would it be this one?
http://members.home.nl/dnme/tracks/IL2/12/dnmeTIR.zip

I'll try to have a look at your nocockpit.ntrk tonight.

Cheers,
Mike

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The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

Dnmy
01-29-2004, 08:29 AM
I don't know what trk Tully was speaking of

But one trk i made back then was only to showcase trackIR against 8 x 109F4.
But i removed it from my webspace because it was for IL2. I think the latest version, but not sure.

edit:

I didn't remove that trk from my webspace apparantly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Extreme_One
01-29-2004, 08:29 AM
That track (I'm not at home so haven't viewed it) judging by the title isn't no HUD flying, but no cockpit flying isn't it?

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/raf_sig.jpg

Dnmy
01-29-2004, 08:31 AM
Yep, isn't that the same thing?

If not, then scratch the trk http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DONB3397
01-29-2004, 08:31 AM
A few days back, there was a long thread dealing with the virtues of flying "full real" or "full difficulty." I assumed that meant no HUD, as well as no externals and icons.

Been flying sims for quite a few years and the first thing I do, if the instruments are functioning and reasonably accurate, is eliminate the displays -- in FB, both speedbar and HUD. On the other hand, I won't give up the externals. I love flybys.

As you suggest, it's an exercise in memory as well as visual acuity. While you need to scan the instruments constantly (not always easy with a top-hatch/mouse), you also need to remember -- flap position, tailwheel lock, etc.

Does it make you a better pilot? Probably not. But, as you said, it helps with immersion.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCtfrFABrTvGLZQo

Osirisx9
01-29-2004, 08:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Why on earth would you want to turn it off? I mean, on real planes you just take a look at the indicators and know where the flaps and gear are at. In this game it's just annoying and doesn't do anything to make me feel like flying a real WWII fighter. Immersion killerÔ┬┤? Sheesh!

Duhhhhhhhhhhhh look around the cockpit and you will see the guages. Thats how real pilots do it. Hud flying is nothing but arcade. You can see through windscreens with oil from a shot out engine, and all the other bs like the stupid starwars arrows pointing the way to enemy planes. But I guess this is what you call Immersion. But I guess your looking to play star trek.

Osiris_X9
Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rajvosa
01-29-2004, 08:36 AM
I would love to have authentic gauges, levers and switches! Man! I'd do away with the HUD in an instant. But until we get there (hopefully in BoB?) I just have to stick to the HUD. If I get any more immersed in this sim, I'm gonna get crazy!

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)

Rajvosa
01-29-2004, 08:37 AM
Osiris...

Go smoke a banana.
Man!

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)

Osirisx9
01-29-2004, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rajvosa:
Osiris...

Go smoke a banana.
Man!

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should put down the crack pipe but I guess you wouldn't. Smoking crack probably helps to enhance all the pretty colors on the hud for ya. This is a sim dumb a_ss...The only way your going to get authentic guages is in a real airplane. Like this sim (key word here is sim) it is meant to simulate ww2 aircraft in flight models, visuals, and the cockpit enviroment and FB does a pretty good job of simulating the guages with their function and layout all you have to do is just stop flying arcade and learn to read the guages and look around the cockpit. But since your sucking smoke through your crackpipe its a little hard for you due to your stunted attention span.

Osiris_X9

Rajvosa
01-29-2004, 08:46 AM
What the hey is your problem, kid? Now you're just being silly!

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)

Indianer.
01-29-2004, 08:46 AM
I've been flying with the HUD off and the subtitles off for a while now. It took ages to master especially the direction aspect but i find it quite easy now cos i'm used to it. The only problem I have is that when I fly VOW or VEF i dont understand russian so i never know the vector to home base! Just have to have an educated guess lol

"durch wehrwillen zur wehrkraft"

michapma
01-29-2004, 09:24 AM
Indianer, you can replace the Russian voice tracks with English-language voice tracks if you like. They all have the same file names, so just replace the Russian folder contents with the English folder contents. You might want to back up the Russian ones (in the same folder, just put them under a different folder name).

There may have been some confusion on what the HUD (heads-up display) refers to. In the picture below, the HUD is the area of text that reads "Enemy Aircraft Destroyed" and "Erh├┬Âhte Notleistung ENABLED!" Sorry Ven! I was being rather sneaky in that FW...
http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/fbscreens/fw190a8_ven.jpg

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

michapma
01-29-2004, 09:54 AM
This subject reminds me how much I would like to have (translated) pilot's notes for some of the Russian aircraft. Wish in one hand, spit in the other, and see which one gets full faster...

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

Extreme_One
01-29-2004, 09:57 AM
Hey Mike are you the Mike ******* that 'acted' in BBQs voice-pack? (I don't know if you want your full name posted in a public forum)

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/raf_sig.jpg

michapma
01-29-2004, 10:00 AM
Yeah, that was hilarious, trying to imitate a German accent in English. LOL I don't mind my name being posted, but I don't like the sound of my recorded voice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif There's no need to add my name to the credits, thanks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

Extreme_One
01-29-2004, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by michapma:
Yeah, that was hilarious, trying to imitate a German accent in English. LOL I don't mind my name being posted, but I don't like the sound of my recorded voice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif There's no need to add my name to the credits, thanks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://giap.webhop.info

_http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/_ | http://www.forgottenskies.com/<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds fine to me. You were acting then! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif I thought that the voices were of German speakers, speaking English as their second language.
How naive I am!

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the RAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html).

Download the USAAF campaign folder here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-9.html). *NEW* Updated for FB 1.21

http://extremeone.4t.com/images/raf_sig.jpg

SeaFireLIV
01-29-2004, 10:08 AM
"It really adds to the immersion,"

I make no apologies to anyone for this statement and no one else should.

People who knock it are those who haven`t tried it. One of the things I love about it is when you shoot up an enemy plane and it goes down, but you haven`t time to check if he really did go. All you can do is see if your wingman gives you a confirm, or when back at base you`re told you had a kill.
Also, trying to work out what`s hit/damaged when your plane suddenly decides it wants to keep yawwing left.
I also like it when a part of your plane gets busted- like the good old Hurricane where my wings were hit. I dived on an He111, opened fire- nothing! Damn!

Now that sure as hell beats `Gun damaged` popping up outta nowhere. And it`s very similar to documented pilot`s experiences that I`ve read.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/greypilots.jpg
War is hell....

LEXX_Luthor
01-29-2004, 10:18 AM
I have not done this yet *but* given the situation we are in, with the radiator controls, sacrificing engine overheat is a small price to pay for HUD OFF. Anyway, look at the Debate about overheat realism (La) and then the AI never overheats.

HUD OFF = Overheat OFF...an intractable Religious WAR banging inside my head.



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight

A.K.Davis
01-29-2004, 10:22 AM
Unfortunately, I have to keep the HUD on. I really hate it, but somethings are just not possible to manage without it. I use a throttle, and without the HUD, there is no way to tell if I've pushed the throttle past 100% (in real life the throttle would have some sort of stop). Combine this with the screwy boost pressure gauges and it's just not that feasible. Plus, I hear no flap or gear noises in certain aircraft, so that can be a bit problematic. The worst thing about the HUD, however, is the continuous WEP messages that in some cases stretch halfway across the screen, the damage messages, and the "target destroyed" type messages. If I could get rid of those but keep the basic engine management feedback, I wouldn't mind it so much.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

Rajvosa
01-29-2004, 10:24 AM
You just nailed the problem, AKD! Well said!

Golf GTI Edition 2.0 16v (Rest In Pieces!)

SeaFireLIV
01-29-2004, 10:29 AM
Yea, AKD, pretty much said it right. I have tried to `customise` the HUD in config, but have failed...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/greypilots.jpg

x6BL_Brando
01-29-2004, 10:42 AM
I do have incremental rad settings, as well as flaps, incremental prop pitch, mixture and supercharger controls mapped to a HOTAS, and I'm beginning to remember the tricky stuff like how many clicks to open the rad, set the prop & so on. So I do sometimes disable HUD and give it a try, usually offline, and try to get as many clues as possible from the incomplete cockpit gauges. But, all the time? Not for me.

I reckon that the HUD display literally helps to bridge the reality gap, and allows me to fly in a virtual aircraft in a way that would be impossible in RL. It makes up for not being able to FEEL the effect of, say, varying prop pitch. I've ridden motorbikes since the '60's, and I know that "the seat of my pants" is an invaluable tool (steady, girls) for detecting balance, engine condition, road condition & so on. I'm sure that a '40's fighter-pilot used that, and the vibes through the stick & pedals etc, along with an eye for the gauges to keep it all together. AFAIK that isn't written in, even if I had an FF stick, so a crib sheet doesn't seem too far-fetched. I'm for both states http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEXX_Luthor
01-29-2004, 10:54 AM
You can put markings on your stick throttle. I tried this but use my throttle for rudder. I prefer the numpad for throttle.

No, HUD bridges nothing. If it did, HUD would have tiny symbols in the lower right of screen that would not kill the game. A simple "B" for BOOST (or meth) injection is all you need instead of seeing that sentence pasted across the sky.

I can see a tactical warning message come on like Enemy Aircraft Destroyed or something pasted on the canopy, but that is all. Maybe Fuel Tank Leak if your fuel guage does not work ( http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ) but nothing more. All that crap now can go on the lower right and in more cryptic, shortened form.



__________________
RUSSIAN lexx website http://www.lexx.ufo.ru/members.shtml
Stanly is a moron, kai is a walking dead beet, Xev just want sex.
:
you will still have FB , you will lose nothing ~WUAF_Badsight

michapma
01-29-2004, 12:47 PM
At least SeaFire understands me... *sniff* http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I agree about a marking on the throttle. I am in the nice position of being able to take my Cougar apart and reset the throttle ticks. Make your own stop. I see remembering the radiator as a bigger problem. I can't remember its setting with the HUD, so maybe what I actually need is something to make me not take it for granted. Actually what I need is the radiator on a slide axis, I believe most were controlled with a continuous lever. I don't think all of the manifold pressure gauges are screwy, and honestly flaps are not hard: either click up or down three times to reset and then the number of times you want it.


I am going to do some experimenting, and look for ways... let's keep up this interesting discussion.

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SeaFireLIV
01-29-2004, 12:52 PM
Yes. On the Hurricane, to the left of the joystick is a little red button that moves up/down a black strip- It`s the radiator slider! All the way down is full open. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV...

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SKULLS Virga
01-29-2004, 01:24 PM
I have been flying with no hud for a little while now. I enjoy flying much more without it however due to the previously mentioned lack of radiator position indication and inaccurate temp readings I don't claim it to be any more realistic. It is more emursive for me though.

michapma
01-30-2004, 02:56 AM
I did some preliminary testing last night in the P-40M, Bf-109 F-4, FW-190 A-4, Hurricane MkIIc and La-5 F. In all of these the manifold pressure (i.e., boost) can be used to make throttle settings, but only up to "100%" throttle. Above this, in most of the aircraft extremely little difference is shown when 100% is exceeded. In some cases there is a change in rpm that sufficiently indicates that 100% is being exceeded; obviously you have to know your aircraft. The La-5 is an exception, as it only goes to 100%, above this there is only the Forsazh (WEP). The La-5 clearly shows the effect of both supercharger and mixture by means of the manifold pressure (MP) gauge.

The 109 even has a white mark on its MP gauge that corresponds to full throttle. It seems that a setting of 100% slightly exceeds this mark, but if you set it at the mark you are at around 99%. The setting of the MP seems independent of airspeed or other flight conditions, and dependent only on the throttle, mixture and supercharger settings. In other aircraft, most notably the Hurricane in those I tested last night, the MP indication depends on flight conditions, especially airspeed. Thus the MP sometimes provides an exact indication of the throttle setting, but not in all conditions and not in all aircraft. The 109 and P-40 drivers appear to have it especially easy, in that there are no supercharger stages or mixture settings to change.

Overheating and radiator position are definitely issues. In this regard I had time to test only the P-40 and La-5. Well, sort of. I ran the La-5 for ten minutes, partially with time acceleration, and it never overheated. I finally had to stop when I ran out of time before my mission. In the La-5 both the oil and coolant temperature gauges function, but in the P-40 the coolant gauge is non-functional. For some aircraft it appears there should be an oil temperature that corresponds to the overheating message. For the P-40, it is off the scale, that is, at 100 degrees (top of the scale) you may be overheating or not. Thankfully, the P-40 also has the light that turns on when overheating.

I flew a Forgotten Skies mission in the La-5 and tried to ignore the HUD as much as possible. It is hard! I didn't realize just how ingrained it is to rely on the HUD. It also takes more time with instruments: the rpm indicator doesn't react as quickly as the HUD setting, for example. I had to sacrifice a lot of scan time to reading instruments, but of course I realize I'm just not used to it.

This is fun stuff. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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michapma
01-30-2004, 04:08 PM
I just flew my first missions with the HUD off... in an F-2! It's the fourth mission of a Leningrad campaign. I died twice trying to dutifully fulfill my mission parameters, but attacking an airfield alone is difficult, both times downed by AAA. On the last try, I got a very realistic kill on a Hurricane. The airfield damaged me so I went home, navigated, had to go around and then landed. My elevator had been damaged (knew by testing my surfaces after hit) but I didn't realize how much, so I bounced the landing pretty hard. Survived! And the increase in realism is extreme. The game told me I was captured, but let me continue. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

s!
Mike

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