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georgeo76
07-12-2004, 10:57 AM
originally from this (http://www.snopes.com/military/medal.htm) website.

"They just kept passing it around there were eight or nine or ten of them who handled it before it was over," he said.

"They had found it in my pocket at the airport, and they thought it was suspicious. It's shaped like a star, and they were looking at the metal edges of it, like it was a weapon. I asked for it back, but they kept handing it to each other and inspecting it. I was told to move to a separate area.

"I told them -- just turn it over. The engraving on the back explains everything. But they thought they must have something potentially dangerous here.

"I told them exactly what it was -- I said, 'That's my Congressional Medal of Honor.´"

The man relating that story is retired Gen. Joe Foss, 86. His experience last month in Arizona at the international airport in Phoenix -- may be the ultimate symbol of the out-of-kilter times we are going through. We are so afraid of terrorists in our midst that what happened to Foss is not only believable, but perhaps even inevitable:

The Congressional Medal of Honor will be taken from its recipient because it looks vaguely ominous.

I spoke with Foss because I wanted to hear it from him directly. He told me that he holds no animosity about the incident -- "I'm just as interested in defeating the terrorists as anyone is, I promise you that" and that he is mostly sad that no one knew what the Medal of Honor was.

Foss was awarded the medal by President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II after shooting down 26 enemy planes as a Marine fighter pilot in solo combat in the Pacific. He grew up in South Dakota -- after the war he would become governor of that state -- and took flying lessons as a young man, then went to war.

He lives in Scottsdale, Ariz., and when he travels he is patted down in airports instead of going through the metal detectors, because of a heart pacemaker. At the airport in Phoenix, he said, he was being searched manually and he put his jacket through the X-ray machine. A couple of things caught the attention of the screeners -- rightly so.

Foss has a key chain made out of a dummy bullet, with a hole drilled through it to make it evident it is harmless; he also carries a small knife/file with the Medal of Honor Society's insignia on it. The screeners took both of them from Foss -- traveling during these nervous days with items that look like bullets, or with even a small knife, will, and should, invite scrutiny. Even if you're 86. Even if you're a war hero.

That's not what frustrated him. The screeners, he said, allowed him to mail the key chain and the little knife back to his home from the airport. But for 45 minutes, he estimated, he was passed from person to person, made to remove his boots and tie and belt and hat three different times, and prevented from boarding his flight (he was eventually allowed on) because the security personnel, he said, had misgivings about his Medal of Honor.

(America West Airlines, in whose terminal in Phoenix the incident allegedly took place, said through a spokeswoman shortly after the misunderstanding that the airline's objective is to ensure safety and security for all passengers and employees.)

"I want you to know," Foss told me, "that I don't go around wearing my Medal of Honor, or carrying it with me. The only reason I had it with me on this flight was that I was supposed to give a speech to a class at the United States Military Academy at West Point, and I thought the medal was something the cadets might be interested in seeing."

I asked him what he remembered about being presented the Congressional Medal of Honor. "I was right fresh out of combat when I was called to the White House," he said. "FDR was behind his desk, and he pinned the medal on my uniform. He said it was for actions above and beyond the call of duty.

"I was nervous, being in the presence of the president. I think I may have been more nervous there than I was in combat. My wife and mother were with me -- it was quite a day. I think President Roosevelt called me 'young feller.'"

After the White House ceremony, Foss had his photograph taken with the medal -- the nation's highest military honor for valor in action -- on his uniform. That photo was the full front cover of Life magazine, the issue of June 7, 1943; the cover caption was: "Captain Foss, U.S.M.C. America's No. 1 Ace."

And now, almost 60 years later, the Medal of Honor was being handed from one skeptical security screener to another in the Phoenix airport, while Foss, at 86, took his boots and belt off as ordered.

"I wasn't upset for me," he said. "I was upset for the Medal of Honor, that they just didn't know what it even was. It represents all of the guys who lost their lives -- the guys who never came back. Everyone who put their lives on the line for their country. You're supposed to know what the Medal of Honor is."

georgeo76
07-12-2004, 10:57 AM
originally from this (http://www.snopes.com/military/medal.htm) website.

"They just kept passing it around there were eight or nine or ten of them who handled it before it was over," he said.

"They had found it in my pocket at the airport, and they thought it was suspicious. It's shaped like a star, and they were looking at the metal edges of it, like it was a weapon. I asked for it back, but they kept handing it to each other and inspecting it. I was told to move to a separate area.

"I told them -- just turn it over. The engraving on the back explains everything. But they thought they must have something potentially dangerous here.

"I told them exactly what it was -- I said, 'That's my Congressional Medal of Honor.´"

The man relating that story is retired Gen. Joe Foss, 86. His experience last month in Arizona at the international airport in Phoenix -- may be the ultimate symbol of the out-of-kilter times we are going through. We are so afraid of terrorists in our midst that what happened to Foss is not only believable, but perhaps even inevitable:

The Congressional Medal of Honor will be taken from its recipient because it looks vaguely ominous.

I spoke with Foss because I wanted to hear it from him directly. He told me that he holds no animosity about the incident -- "I'm just as interested in defeating the terrorists as anyone is, I promise you that" and that he is mostly sad that no one knew what the Medal of Honor was.

Foss was awarded the medal by President Franklin D. Roosevelt during World War II after shooting down 26 enemy planes as a Marine fighter pilot in solo combat in the Pacific. He grew up in South Dakota -- after the war he would become governor of that state -- and took flying lessons as a young man, then went to war.

He lives in Scottsdale, Ariz., and when he travels he is patted down in airports instead of going through the metal detectors, because of a heart pacemaker. At the airport in Phoenix, he said, he was being searched manually and he put his jacket through the X-ray machine. A couple of things caught the attention of the screeners -- rightly so.

Foss has a key chain made out of a dummy bullet, with a hole drilled through it to make it evident it is harmless; he also carries a small knife/file with the Medal of Honor Society's insignia on it. The screeners took both of them from Foss -- traveling during these nervous days with items that look like bullets, or with even a small knife, will, and should, invite scrutiny. Even if you're 86. Even if you're a war hero.

That's not what frustrated him. The screeners, he said, allowed him to mail the key chain and the little knife back to his home from the airport. But for 45 minutes, he estimated, he was passed from person to person, made to remove his boots and tie and belt and hat three different times, and prevented from boarding his flight (he was eventually allowed on) because the security personnel, he said, had misgivings about his Medal of Honor.

(America West Airlines, in whose terminal in Phoenix the incident allegedly took place, said through a spokeswoman shortly after the misunderstanding that the airline's objective is to ensure safety and security for all passengers and employees.)

"I want you to know," Foss told me, "that I don't go around wearing my Medal of Honor, or carrying it with me. The only reason I had it with me on this flight was that I was supposed to give a speech to a class at the United States Military Academy at West Point, and I thought the medal was something the cadets might be interested in seeing."

I asked him what he remembered about being presented the Congressional Medal of Honor. "I was right fresh out of combat when I was called to the White House," he said. "FDR was behind his desk, and he pinned the medal on my uniform. He said it was for actions above and beyond the call of duty.

"I was nervous, being in the presence of the president. I think I may have been more nervous there than I was in combat. My wife and mother were with me -- it was quite a day. I think President Roosevelt called me 'young feller.'"

After the White House ceremony, Foss had his photograph taken with the medal -- the nation's highest military honor for valor in action -- on his uniform. That photo was the full front cover of Life magazine, the issue of June 7, 1943; the cover caption was: "Captain Foss, U.S.M.C. America's No. 1 Ace."

And now, almost 60 years later, the Medal of Honor was being handed from one skeptical security screener to another in the Phoenix airport, while Foss, at 86, took his boots and belt off as ordered.

"I wasn't upset for me," he said. "I was upset for the Medal of Honor, that they just didn't know what it even was. It represents all of the guys who lost their lives -- the guys who never came back. Everyone who put their lives on the line for their country. You're supposed to know what the Medal of Honor is."

jobace
07-12-2004, 12:00 PM
no comment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
it's all in the story

NorrisMcWhirter
07-12-2004, 12:20 PM
This is OT, I know but a toy plastic sword was confiscated from a child in one of the French airports the other day (IIRC).

Ironic that they don't allow that sort of thing but it's ok to walk on with n litres of booze nicely packaged in glass bottles which are suitable for cutting/hitting people with.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

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VOL_Hans
07-12-2004, 12:23 PM
Pathetic...

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
07-12-2004, 12:42 PM
What has modern society come to? I agree that security in an Airport is a good thing, but this is downright stupidity and disrespect. I believe that the airport security, the airline, and any other airport personnel that held up Mr. Foss should apologize. They should not apologize to Mr. Foss directly however. It's enough to question it once. Make them fight for their country.

It is a sad day when we realize that the only ones who truly know the loss of dying for your country are the ones who have lived through it themselves.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

huggy87
07-12-2004, 01:16 PM
I may be wrong, but I thought Foss died a few months back.

huggy87
07-12-2004, 01:19 PM
Ok. A quick search and I was right. He died on New Years day. Not only is the incident funny for their ignorance of the medal, but Mr. Foss was a retired governor as well. You can never be too careful with those terrorist state governors. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

huggy87
07-12-2004, 01:22 PM
A few months back I was travelling with my family. We were 'selected' for the extra special screening. They frisked my 16 month old. You have to be careful of those toddlers as well.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
07-12-2004, 02:21 PM
Man what a world http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v323/tHeBaLrOgRoCkS/planes/signiture3.jpg

Resident_Jock
07-12-2004, 02:29 PM
I remember in 2002, we were headed to Florida from LA International, with a stop in Dallas. My family was stopped "randomly" at every single checkpoint in all 3 airports both going to and from Florida. This included losing our spot in line so they could unpack our bags, frisk us, and carefully check our shoes.

Not that I complained much, I would prefer to have some overly anal security guards instead of none at all, but I thought it very strange that we were searched a total of 6 times. We aren't even "suspicious" based on race or background. Watch out! It's a middle class white guy!

http://thecasualty.homestead.com/files/resident_siggy.jpg

Korolov
07-12-2004, 02:45 PM
I think the moral of the story isn't about airport security, it's that nobody knew what the Medal of Honor was.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

VW-IceFire
07-12-2004, 02:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
I think the moral of the story isn't about airport security, it's that nobody knew what the Medal of Honor was.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which is sad...very sad.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

jazman777
07-12-2004, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
I think the moral of the story isn't about airport security, it's that nobody knew what the Medal of Honor was.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Considering how rare it is, it's no surprise. Most of these TSA types don't even know what the word "Honor" means.

---
Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under - H. L. Mencken

ASM 1
07-12-2004, 03:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
I think the moral of the story isn't about airport security, it's that nobody knew what the Medal of Honor was.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Which is sad...very sad.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/351.gif (both of you actually)

Dreadful..... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

LW_lcarp
07-12-2004, 04:19 PM
The ignorance that has spread around the whole world of deeds performed by men in combat is a sad thing.

The extra ordinary things that are required of a man to enter into a situation where they might die desrves something better then what they recieve now days.

Dont blame a solider for doing what hes told. Blame the people running there war be it against whoever.

And as far as these people man handling something they have no idea of the testocular fortitude that was require to be awarded the Medal of Honor then they need to learn a thing or 2 about the Government and the military run by they government

"If winning isnt everything why do they keep score"
Vince Lombardi

tttiger
07-12-2004, 04:30 PM
Talk about old news...this happened more than two and a half years ago! I remember reading about it at the time.

It's obvious what the TSA screeners did was foolish but what's even more foolish is dragging out something that happened in January 2002 as a thread topic in July 2004. The thread-starter didn't even know Foss died seven months ago, fer chrissakes.

Some of you guys need to get a life...and get away from the computer for awhile and read a newspaper every day.

Oh, and btw, there is no such thing as the "Congressional Medal of Honor." It's simply the "Medal of Honor." I saw very few people wearing the MOH (correct abbreviation) in 28 years in the Army and I don't blame the TSA screeners for not knowing it on sight. They are extremely rare.

Geeze.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

El Turo
07-12-2004, 04:30 PM
Airport security is a complete waste of money regardless.. and yes, very sad that the ******s didn't recognize the man as a genuine hero.

Every time I walk through the eight miles of switch-backs to get to the metal detectors and I pass a half dozen donut eating idiots on the way, I see freeways with potholes, classrooms without books and tax dollars being drained from my gross income at an alarming rate.

All these "security" measures do is present a useless facade to placate We the Sheeple.

Ugh.

Don't get me started.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Freycinet
07-12-2004, 04:52 PM
I passed through Charles de Gaulle airport, Paris, only four hours ago with a 10 cm. blade pocket knife.

I realised I had forgotten to put it in the luggage when I stood in line for the X-ray machine. On another occasion I had passed through with a pair of small scissors in the coin compartment of my wallet, so I said to myself "he!!, I'll just slip the knife into the coin compartment of my wallet, see if I can get through rather than having the knife confiscated".

Well, the guy at the machine didn't notice anything, so it went through with no trouble at all. Needless to say, four guys with knives like that is all it would take to kill the crew and fly the plane into the Eiffel Tower. I find it rather shocking that security is so lax.

horseback
07-12-2004, 05:06 PM
If you want a competent workforce, you have to have reasonable standards of competence. Airport Security Screeners are not exactly drawn from the elites of our societies, and they are generally paid and respected accordingly.

What I see the screeners doing here is not trying to protect the public, but being used to show the public that 'something' is being done, and that it's being done without regard for race, creed, color, or age, ie., 'fairly.' They weren't bright enough to be trusted with using their own judgement (and given the examples quoted here, that may be a good thing), and so the concept of the old guy with a major medal in his pocket being a potential danger on an airliner was perfectly plausible to them.

Certainly a frail old white guy is a safer target than some more obvious ethnic/gender/age groups. You can hustle him out of the line without disruption a lot more easily than one out of a group of young males of some of our more easily aggrieved groups.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

georgeo76
07-12-2004, 05:11 PM
tttiger is right. A WWII aviation board is a completely inappropriate place to speak of dead persons and dated events.

Geeze.

El Turo
07-12-2004, 05:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by georgeo76:
tttiger is right. A WWII aviation board is a completely inappropriate place to speak of dead persons and dated events.

Geeze.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

Well said. Now, bring up splitting "ragheads" clean in two with a 50-cal and you're on to something triple-T can sink his teeth into.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

PBNA-Flanker
07-12-2004, 05:21 PM
wow ... just ... wow ... is all i have to say http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

h009291
07-12-2004, 05:28 PM
Well ... I for one can see how not many would know what a Medal of Honor looks like ... especially those early WW2 ones ..

Considering about 50% of the people in the USA probably don't know who their Vice President is ... it wouldn't really surprise me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

heywooood
07-12-2004, 05:36 PM
One - it is sadthat every American does not know what the MOH looks like ...let alone its recipients..

Two - Airport security is Vital and must be taken seriously and tolerated 100% regardless of how foolish or miss directed it appears to be.. the adversary is devious and desperate..they have used women and infants/children before to disguise their intent.

Three - please don't use terms like "raghead" etc.. many worthy people have worn this traditional and cultural clothing without committing heinous acts of mass murder and violence.

Four - Try not to slam the people working in the defence of our Nation in whatever capacity they do so... instead - be alert and vigilant.
Let them know if you see something off kilter or unusual - you never know what an extra set of Mk1 eyeballs will notice in a crowd.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

huggy87
07-12-2004, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by georgeo76:
tttiger is right. A WWII aviation board is a completely inappropriate place to speak of dead persons and dated events.

Geeze.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL oh noble starter of this thread.

huggy87
07-12-2004, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by h009291:
Well ... I for one can see how not many would know what a Medal of Honor looks like ... especially those early WW2 ones ..

Considering about 50% of the people in the USA probably don't know who their Vice President is ... it wouldn't really surprise me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And about 95% of us would not know or care who is your prime minister. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

El Turo
07-12-2004, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And about 95% of us would not know or care who is your prime minister<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

..or respect the quality level of public education in our country.

=/

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

BaldieJr
07-12-2004, 06:38 PM
Look at me: I'm an internet tough-guy.

El Turo
07-12-2004, 06:43 PM
Yes, quite so!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

h009291
07-12-2004, 06:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by huggy87:
And about 95% of us would not know or care who is your prime minister. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well about 95% of Canadians dont give a rats *** who the PM is either ... same dweebs .. different party http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

heywooood
07-12-2004, 06:55 PM
politicians , lawyers , and metermaids.

What are the three most hated professions, Alex?...


dingdingding the Daily Double.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Franzen
07-12-2004, 09:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Look at me: I'm an internet tough-guy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, Baldie, now that's a good one. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif Now you have to flex your pc specs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

C'mon guyz, think about the contents of the original post and then think about your nationalistic BS. Do you think it's really fair? A little respect goes a long way. Shame, shame, shame http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Fritz Franzen