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View Full Version : Connor's Obsession with Charles Lee [spoilers]



Inorganic9_2
12-20-2012, 05:38 PM
So why exactly was Connor obsessed with killing Lee? I understand that, originally, it was to do with blaming him for destroying the village.


However, even after he finds out that Lee was not responsible for the village burning, he seems to be even more obsessed with killing him, calling him a monster to Haytham (even though Lee acts on Haytham's orders?) and screaming at Haytham to hand him over. Anyone have any insight on this?

AjinkyaParuleka
12-20-2012, 05:56 PM
Charles lee was a Templar and had to be killed(assassin-templar war ftw).Also it was Charles who told Connor's friend that Connor is with those who are set to destroy his village.Due to this His friend died.Also Charles Lee had a Precursor Amulet(Da key) to the Grand Temple.Correct me if I'm wrong.

Inorganic9_2
12-20-2012, 06:05 PM
True, I forgot about Kanen'tokon.

One thing I do not remember is Connor ever being told about the amulet. Actually, I remember being confused when he took it after the bar stabbing. Why did he do so if he didn't know what it was?

cmrggamer
12-20-2012, 06:29 PM
True, I forgot about Kanen'tokon.

One thing I do not remember is Connor ever being told about the amulet. Actually, I remember being confused when he took it after the bar stabbing. Why did he do so if he didn't know what it was?

I think a big reason he is so obsessed with Lee is because the memory of his mother's death was associated with Charles Lee. I mean, he is so young and the thought is so ingrained before Haytham exposes Washington. He also learned from Achilles that all Templars are bad and need to die, in order to remove their threat.

About the amulet, I remember being somewhat confused as well. I thought that maybe Juno had told him before about it (perhaps in a scene we didn't watch) but I just rewatched the scene and he's all confused when she's like "Thanks for getting that for me. Now hide it for the next guy to find." I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has a theory on how he knew to take it. For a memento in the manor? XD

xboxauditore
12-20-2012, 11:18 PM
I too am obsessed with Lee, But not to kill him, I want him to be my Father.

pirate1802
12-21-2012, 04:36 AM
I too am obsessed with Lee, But not to kill him, I want him to be my Father.

:eek:

Inorganic9_2
12-21-2012, 10:16 AM
I did actually think the whole memento thing as a reason for taking the amulet. He was wearing it around his neck, so it would've been an easy thing to take and leave with.

avk111
12-21-2012, 10:44 AM
Let me help you guys in regards to the Amulet,

If you guys have noticed , Connir takes a symbol from each person he kills for example his father he took his blades , The other guys he took different things and kept it on the table in the Batcave he had Down under the manor. In regards to Charles lee his symbol was the amulet Juno calculated the event and knew this would happen in the end thus the story of the amulet.

In regards to Charles Lee, well he wasn't Excatly the nice guy, none of the Templars were as they left an impression on him by bullying the kid Connor. So when he was told to seek out the Templars and destroy he was ok with it in normal sense , however adding that he knew they were bullies made it a bit more personal.

hooe this helps your perspective OP

Inorganic9_2
12-21-2012, 10:58 AM
That does make sense with regards to the amulet.


One thing I forgot to mention in my original post was that Connor believes the Templars and Assassins can be reconciled "with Lee gone". I wonder why he applies that to Lee. It's Haytham who is the grand master. It's Haytham that pulls all the strings in the colonies. Why is it that Connor seems to think Lee is so dangerous (despite not really doing anything without the orders of Haytham)

Unless of course it's a sort of "with his main plan of getting Lee into the leadership foiled, Haytham will be more likely to listen"

avk111
12-21-2012, 11:09 AM
That does make sense with regards to the amulet.


One thing I forgot to mention in my original post was that Connor believes the Templars and Assassins can be reconciled "with Lee gone". I wonder why he applies that to Lee. It's Haytham who is the grand master. It's Haytham that pulls all the strings in the colonies. Why is it that Connor seems to think Lee is so dangerous (despite not really doing anything without the orders of Haytham)

Unless of course it's a sort of "with his main plan of getting Lee into the leadership foiled, Haytham will be more likely to listen"

just take a look when does this idea takes place, it takes place when Connir meets his father after sequence 9 I think. Anyway yeah it takes place when Connor meets his father so two issues are the cause of this. First his sentiment towards his father, second Haytham smart persuasion method.
As to why he thinks Lee is so dangerous , again his early years after effect of being bullied by Lee. Second the prison where he meets Lee again and still sees how Lee is plotting in upright full manner , killing the prison ward and blaming it on Connor. Not to mention his under the table conspiracy of removing Washington and leading the colonies fight, which in turn makes the New America country a country lead by a " Bully" templar not just a templar, which is bad enough for an assassin

cmrggamer
12-21-2012, 06:21 PM
Yeah, I guess taking the amulet did make sense as a sort of memento.

And about not wanting to kill Haytham, when Achilles first shows Connor the Templar targets he knows what must be done. But then, even the first time he simply sees his father (Boston Massacre) you can hear the tension in his voice: "But--" His hesitance builds when they meet and work together in sequence 9. Haytham is Connor's last biological family, so even though Haytham was never a part of his life I think it makes perfect sense that Connor yearns for a sort of relationship to develop.

I must admit I loved Lee's character. He was like a little kid at first, hoping to gain the attention of Grand Master Haytham who he so looked up to. Then, after he is indoctrinated into the Order we see him change...I was impressed with the darkness they were able to depict in his cutscenes, particularly with Connor. And still, Connor will always associate Lee with his horrible childhood memories.

pirate1802
12-21-2012, 06:26 PM
I must admit I loved Lee's character. He was like a little kid at first, hoping to gain the attention of Grand Master Haytham who he so looked up to. Then, after he is indoctrinated into the Order we see him change...I was impressed with the darkness they were able to depict in his cutscenes, particularly with Connor. And still, Connor will always associate Lee with his horrible childhood memories.

I liked Lee's transformation too.

jenyto
12-21-2012, 07:13 PM
In regards of Lee, the guy was by all mean arrogant and a glory seeker.
He looked down on pretty much everyone he didn't like (like the Natives, despite the fact that they were allies for a time, and if you read the book spoiler he looks down on Haytham too at certain moments) and always wants to best George, despite the fact that he has done nothing that makes him a better Commander.
Grudge or not, Lee had to be taken down even if he wasn't a Templar.

avk111
12-21-2012, 07:57 PM
In regards of Lee, the guy was by all mean arrogant and a glory seeker.
He looked down on pretty much everyone he didn't like (like the Natives, despite the fact that they were allies for a time, and if you read the book spoiler he looks down on Haytham too at certain moments) and always wants to best George, despite the fact that he has done nothing that makes him a better Commander.
Grudge or not, Lee had to be taken down even if he wasn't a Templar.
Do you have the book sir ?

jenyto
12-21-2012, 08:36 PM
I do.

The Glory seeker thing is mostly an opinion, it's never really said i nthe book that he was one, but his actions just screams that he wants to be in power and in control.

(though I did read up on the RL Charles Lee, who pretty much is one)

Torvaldesq
12-21-2012, 11:47 PM
Should be noted that when Lee is speaking at Haytham's funeral, he flashes the key to Connor when he says that Haytham sent him away, implying that this was an object given to him by Haytham of importance that he might have not wanted to risk Connor getting a hold of. I had assumed in the game that this was the reason Connor took it.

avk111
12-22-2012, 04:23 AM
I do.

The Glory seeker thing is mostly an opinion, it's never really said i nthe book that he was one, but his actions just screams that he wants to be in power and in control.

(though I did read up on the RL Charles Lee, who pretty much is one)

So the spoiler you posted about Lee and Haytham, was it a fact from the book or your own opinion ?

jenyto
12-22-2012, 06:07 AM
So the spoiler you posted about Lee and Haytham, was it a fact from the book or your own opinion ?

It's in the book

[SPOILER]

I'll just write the segment, this is right before the attack on Fort George, between Haytham and Charles:



''He's my son, Charles,'' I said

He nodded and looked away with pursed lips. ''I had wondered,'' he said. ''There's family resemblance. His mother is the Mohawk woman you absconded with with, is she?''

''Oh, I absconded with, did I?''
He shrugged.

''Don't talk to me about neglecting the Order, Charles. You've done your fair share.''

There was a long silence and, when he looked back at me, his eyes had sparked to life. ''You once accused me of creating the Assassin,'' he said sourly. ''Does it not strike you as ironic - no, hypocritical - given that he is your offspring?''

''Perhaps,'' I said. ''I'm not really sure any more.''

He gave a dry laugh. ''You stopped caring years ago, Haytham. I can't remember the last time I saw anything but weakness in your eyes.''

''Not weakness, Charles. Doubt.''

''Doubt, then,'' he spat. ''Doubt hardly befits a Templar Grand Master, don't you thing?''

''Perhaps,'' I agreed. ''Or perhaps I've learnt that only fools and children lack it.''

I turned to look out the windows. Before the ships had been pinp.ricks to the naked eye, but now they were closer.

''Balderdash,'' said Charles. ''Assassin talk. Belief is a lack of doubt. That is all we ask of our leaders at least: belief.''

''I remember a time you needed my sponsorship to join us; now, you would have my position. would you have made a good Grand Master, do you think?''

''Were you?''


There was a long pause, ''That hurt, Charles.''



I end that segment here.
There's another part where Charles look down on Haytham for spending time with his lover while leaving the rest of the Templar to do his work.

avk111
12-22-2012, 11:21 AM
It's in the book

[SPOILER]

I'll just write the segment, this is right before the attack on Fort George, between Haytham and Charles:



''He's my son, Charles,'' I said

He nodded and looked away with pursed lips. ''I had wondered,'' he said. ''There's family resemblance. His mother is the Mohawk woman you absconded with with, is she?''

''Oh, I absconded with, did I?''
He shrugged.

''Don't talk to me about neglecting the Order, Charles. You've done your fair share.''

There was a long silence and, when he looked back at me, his eyes had sparked to life. ''You once accused me of creating the Assassin,'' he said sourly. ''Does it not strike you as ironic - no, hypocritical - given that he is your offspring?''

''Perhaps,'' I said. ''I'm not really sure any more.''

He gave a dry laugh. ''You stopped caring years ago, Haytham. I can't remember the last time I saw anything but weakness in your eyes.''

''Not weakness, Charles. Doubt.''

''Doubt, then,'' he spat. ''Doubt hardly befits a Templar Grand Master, don't you thing?''

''Perhaps,'' I agreed. ''Or perhaps I've learnt that only fools and children lack it.''

I turned to look out the windows. Before the ships had been pinp.ricks to the naked eye, but now they were closer.

''Balderdash,'' said Charles. ''Assassin talk. Belief is a lack of doubt. That is all we ask of our leaders at least: belief.''

''I remember a time you needed my sponsorship to join us; now, you would have my position. would you have made a good Grand Master, do you think?''

''Were you?''


There was a long pause, ''That hurt, Charles.''



I end that segment here.
There's another part where Charles look down on Haytham for spending time with his lover while leaving the rest of the Templar to do his work.

dude thank you so much for the post, I wish there was a way for me to buy the book, it gives more in depth look at the characters, is it all about Haytham is there any sort of regards for Connor ?

jenyto
12-22-2012, 10:12 PM
dude thank you so much for the post, I wish there was a way for me to buy the book, it gives more in depth look at the characters, is it all about Haytham is there any sort of regards for Connor ?

It's mostly Haytham. The parts with Connor is about the same as you see in game, except Haytham thinks things differently from what he says...

The only thing that annoyed me is when they worte teh part when Haytham recruits, which is exactly the same as in game. Waste of space :nonchalance:

btw, you can buy the book here: http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Assassins-Creed-Forsaken-Oliver-Bowden/9780425261514
You can pay with paypal if you have that, and as the site says, no charge for shipping :D