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tigertalon
08-25-2004, 05:20 AM
Hi all

shouldn't there in most of cases when you hit an inline engined plane into engine compartment he start loosing coolant? AFAIK coolants (glycol + water in most of cases) were white, so? Only difference I noticed in game is that inline engines are much easier to set on fire than radial ones. Sometimes with a bit of bad luck a plane was doomed being hit by a single 7mm bullet which pierced radiator or cooling sistem...

Am I missing something here? Please, explain.

Thnx, tt

regards, tt

tigertalon
08-25-2004, 05:20 AM
Hi all

shouldn't there in most of cases when you hit an inline engined plane into engine compartment he start loosing coolant? AFAIK coolants (glycol + water in most of cases) were white, so? Only difference I noticed in game is that inline engines are much easier to set on fire than radial ones. Sometimes with a bit of bad luck a plane was doomed being hit by a single 7mm bullet which pierced radiator or cooling sistem...

Am I missing something here? Please, explain.

Thnx, tt

regards, tt

Jasko76
08-25-2004, 05:25 AM
True... I always thought something was missing.

Regards,

Jasko
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GH_Klingstroem
08-25-2004, 06:21 AM
are u fishing?! One lucky bullet is what u need to bring down a p39, 109 and a p51! Usually russian planes can take more damage, due to some strange unknown construction... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
08-25-2004, 07:58 AM
Have you ever damaged a liquid cooled engine in real life?

I have.

There's more than coolant in an engine, there's also fuel and oil.

What makes you assume that when you see a thin trail of grayish smoke behind a plane that coolant couldn't be in it? Ever blown a head gasket in your car and had coolant in your oil, or oil in your coolant?

Also, what makes anyone think that just because the damage isn't graphically shown the way you might think it should be, that the result isn't the same as damage that IS modelled?

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p1ngu666
08-25-2004, 08:17 AM
fb doesnt do the liquid, just the oil http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

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LuckyBoy1
08-25-2004, 08:20 AM
Great! Someone's found yet another curve for my CPU to keep track of. Which one of you whiners want to but me the liquid cooled mainframe it's going to take to run all this picky @ssed fun?

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.

1.JaVA_Razer
08-25-2004, 08:25 AM
Didn't P 51 have an outlet relief tube....

one could imitate a coolant leak http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif


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OldMan____
08-25-2004, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyBoy1:
Great! Someone's found yet another curve for my CPU to keep track of. Which one of you whiners want to but me the liquid cooled mainframe it's going to take to run all this picky @ssed fun?

Now with an actual index & more fiber! It is newer & and even more improved! It's Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users!...

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/luckyboy/LuckyboysGuide2.htm

Luckyboy = Senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11 & Contributing Editor to Complete Users magazine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

in fact keeping track of a variable like that would cost just a few dozen cpu cicles each simmulation cicles. Muech less than each bullets flying in the air would do.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

x6BL_Brando
08-25-2004, 09:10 AM
The major problem with the air-cooled radials is taking a round that knocks out just one cylinder or cyl/head. It causes a marginal drop in engine power that leaves the plane flyable but gutless. I've had this damage in the Polikarpovs a few times, and the Gladiator a few times as well. It's a well-modelled effect I reckon - reminds me of getting a few bikes with one or two pots not firing - like the early Honda Fours in a rainstorm! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

jugent
08-25-2004, 09:45 AM
Unfortunatly for the realism the radiators are not included in the damage profiles.
The engines was cooled by pure glycol I think and it burns easy.

It was a common cause for emergency landings overheating becasue of hits in the radiators. The spit got double radiators because of this. Me:s got a valve to switch of one of the radiators.

I want the radiators to be included in the damageprofiles for all inline engines.

Platypus_1.JaVA
08-25-2004, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pferdkopf:
Unfortunatly for the realism the radiators are not included in the damage profiles.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is included, be sure.

In an offline campaign, I had to stop two flights of Il-2's, attacking my airfield with the 109F2. This is a marvelous aircraft to fly but, is armed with only the 7.92mm peashooters and a 15mm canon. WIch doesn't harm the Il-2's at all. Okay, I had three other flight members but, you know how the AI is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So, I decided to go for the IL-2 radiators at first. I managed to disable 4 Il-2's that way (my wingie's harrased the others) and they immediatly headed home once their aircraft was hit in the radiator.

Haven't any of you newbee's had a hit, some heavy smoking and where the engine would make funny sounds and would stop after a while?

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LStarosta
08-25-2004, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Usually russian planes can take more damage, due to some strange unknown construction...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Delta wood, be sure.

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Jaws2002
08-25-2004, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pferdkopf:
Unfortunatly for the realism the radiators are not included in the damage profiles.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is included, be sure.

In an offline campaign, I had to stop two flights of Il-2's, attacking my airfield with the 109F2. This is a marvelous aircraft to fly but, is armed with only the 7.92mm peashooters and a 15mm canon. WIch doesn't harm the Il-2's at all. Okay, I had three other flight members but, you know how the AI is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So, I decided to go for the IL-2 radiators at first. I managed to disable 4 Il-2's that way (my wingie's harrased the others) and they immediatly headed home once their aircraft was hit in the radiator.

Haven't any of you newbee's had a hit, some heavy smoking and where the engine would make funny sounds and would stop after a while?

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

Placed 3rd, with team, in the official european championship Il-2/FB
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Totally agree. Just get into QMB and attack IL-2's. Shoot only the lower opening of the oil cooler with any kind of weapon and in few minutes the flying tank goes down. (Last time I checked it was like 6-7 minutes)
Then few planes have a special construction, that's why they catch fire fast: Spitfire, hurricane ,IAR-80/81, have fuel tanks ahead of the cockpit, and what looks like an engine hit could be a fuel tank hit.

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tfu_iain1
08-25-2004, 11:17 AM
umm, you're referring to the Oil Radiator there, not the glycol cooling radiator... tho a valve to shut off a leaking oil radiator would be nice... youd have to watch the temp a bit more but at least your engine wouldnt seize...

problem with engine shots is that radials lose cylinders one at a time because of the (majority) pushrod valvegear- when one cylinder in an inline gets hit, the whole bank of cylinders, if not the whole engine, stops functioning, due to the interconnected valvegear (dual overhead cams in the case of merlin/griffon- im assuming other inlines also had a DOHC configuration, any info anyone?)

jeroen_R90S
08-26-2004, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pferdkopf:

The engines was cooled by pure glycol I think and it burns easy.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh?
[edit] italics are mine.
==============================
Ah you LaGG, my lightened LaGG,
why don't you wish to fly?
Over the wild Black Sea water
your cockpit you made me leave.

[This message was edited by jeroen_R90S on Thu August 26 2004 at 12:38 PM.]

horseback
08-26-2004, 01:25 PM
There are all kinds of ways to get your a/c damaged. My most frustrating one was on a recent offline campaign mission where my prop spinner was hit and my prop pitch apparently went out. The engines revved like crazy when I advanced the throttle, but I could barely keep her in the air, and there was a high pitched metallic noise in the background.

As for glycol burning, I knew it was bad for condors and possums to drink, but I had no idea it was a fire hazard.

cheers

horseback

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LilHorse
08-26-2004, 02:48 PM
I'm pretty sure it is modelled. I've taken hits without the oil splatter and had my engine start overheating and eventually start the "whining/ grinding" noise. And nothing I could do to stop it. As far as I knew I got hit in the cooling system and burnt out my engine.

jugent
08-27-2004, 07:50 AM
Mr/Mrs/Ms Platypus and others

Dont mix the oil-coolerdamage with radiatordamage. The oilcooler is included in thoose planes that got a advanced damage profile. The weak spot oil-cooler is included in the IL2 damage profile maybe because of Hartmanns tips on how to get an IL2 to get down.
To prove this;
Try Quick Mission Builder and set arcade to 1 in the ini-file so you can se the "hitarrows". Choose a enemyplane with inline engine and large aircooler devices, like the hurricane or the Yak. Set you enemy to average and get on his six and unload a hailstorm of projectiles right into the radiator-bulbs. The radiator-compartment can look like a porcupine and not a sign of wapor/steam or fire there.
If you hit the wingstanks, you can se wapors of leeking fuel.

If you hit the engine most A/C will spray and smoke because of the damage.

Some A/C:s are more fragile in the enginecompartment. The most fragile is the Me109-family (surprised?) One hit with a MG is enough many times, it starts to smoke.
The MIG is the weakest of the Soviet A/C. The lagg is almost imune to german fire.

I have some gun-camera clips where a hit in the radiator start a fire that spreads backwards and eventually brings the A/C down.

One there a Me109 hits a Hurricane rigt in the radiator, one where a Me 110 hits a Lancaster?
Hot glycol starts to burn very easy.

Dont try to cool with water/glycol when you weld. It might torch you car.

Spinnetti
08-27-2004, 12:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tfu_iain1:
umm, you're referring to the Oil Radiator there, not the glycol cooling radiator... tho a valve to shut off a leaking oil radiator would be nice... youd have to watch the temp a bit more but at least your engine wouldnt seize...

problem with engine shots is that radials lose cylinders one at a time because of the (majority) pushrod valvegear- when one cylinder in an inline gets hit, the whole bank of cylinders, if not the whole engine, stops functioning, due to the interconnected valvegear (dual overhead cams in the case of merlin/griffon- im assuming other inlines also had a DOHC configuration, any info anyone?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yer all kinda forgetting that regardless of construction or style, if you hit something to make the piston stop, rods start going through the block!

HarryVoyager
08-27-2004, 12:22 PM
To the best of my knowledge, the radiator for the Il-2 feeds air from the over engine scoop, not the underbelly box.

That being said, when I first started playing Il-2 Sturmovik, back when it first came out, I was a pathetic piloy, and even worse shot. To learn flight skills and gunnery, I took to flying an Il-2 againt He-111's in the quick mission builder.

The process was simple. Fly past them, and turn around for a tail engagement, saddle up behind one, and sit there shooting at it. The Il-2 is a vertiable tank, that all but ignores the 7.9mm rounds the He-111 was armed with, except fo one tiny little problem; any time they got slightly above me, they would destroy my engine in seconds. A few hits, and the overheat light would come on, and the engine would toast itself in short order.

Much later, when the Ju-87 became flyable, I had fun flying Ju-87 vrs Il-2 dogfights. Similar results occured. If the Ju-87 could position itself for shots into the upper nose of the Il-2, it could fairly easily disable the Il-2. Catch was, the Il-2 could then nail the Ju-87 with its main guns, which would also quickly end the battle.

Those were actually very interest dogfights. The Ju-87 had a much better turn rate than the Il-2, and extremely long amunition loads, but the Il-2 was only vulnerable in a few key positions, had firepower enough to destroy a Ju-87, should it ever get a chance to fire on it,k and was actually somewhat more responsive, despite its lower overall agility.

So, yes, radiators are quite vulnerable to gunfire in Il-2, and have been since very early in the game, and are still vulnerable today.

Harry Voyager

chris455
08-28-2004, 06:51 PM
Many a 109 pilot learned the hard way about shooting up an IL2s' oil cooler- in the form of a hot spray of thick black oil on the Messerschmidts' windscreen.
Yucky.

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wayno7777
08-29-2004, 01:13 AM
I've had more fuel leaks than glycol leaks. But the resulting spray makes the fuel leak look like a glycol leak. That is unless it's coming from the wings.

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WTE_Ibis
08-29-2004, 06:31 AM
I'm unhappy too because when I want to take a leak
in my 109 it's not modelled and I have to wait till I get back to base. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

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