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View Full Version : Ubisoft, can we have a sequel for Connor?



Pydro_Assassin
12-12-2012, 04:18 AM
Hi. I am not sure if im the only one here but- i loved Connor(No Homo) and his story, most people say they could not like him as a character bu i could ._.
I enjoyed his story and think its sad that his mom died infront of him when he was 5. But anyways, am i the only one here who is dying for a sequel towards Connor?
I mean- not to milk his story like we did with ezio's but just one more? Please Ubisoft? come on... Think about it... Please? c:
What do you guys think?

Assassin_M
12-12-2012, 04:20 AM
Welcome to Club...

You`re not the only one..

We are legio-....What ?? Oh sorry wrong place..

n97e
12-12-2012, 04:26 AM
I liked Connor, but I don't want to follow him any longer. I feel he accomplished what he needed to do at the end of AC3.

Rugterwyper32
12-12-2012, 04:35 AM
I want more Connor. He has potential to grow even further and bring the North American Brotherhood back to life, because honestly, even with what he accomplished in AC3 it's still a wreck and I see the potential for a few interesting things. Lafayette's invitation helps, too, as France IS an option and he could just go as Lafayette's friend, but get involved in something bigger and learn about a side of the assassins that isn't barely there

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 04:35 AM
I liked Connor, but I don't want to follow him any longer. I feel he accomplished what he needed to do at the end of AC3.

So did Ezio at the end of each of his story.

Ontopic: YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

n97e
12-12-2012, 04:39 AM
So did Ezio at the end of each of his story.

Ontopic: YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I agree. I know I said I liked Connor, but I never got to attached to him. I guess a new game could help with that. Thats why I'm uncertain, I would just be afraid that I still wouldn't be to attached.

Assassin_M
12-12-2012, 04:43 AM
I would just be afraid that I still wouldn't be to attached.
There`s also the chance of not being attached with a new character;)

Rugterwyper32
12-12-2012, 04:46 AM
I agree. I know I said I liked Connor, but I never got to attached to him. I guess a new game could help with that. Thats why I'm uncertain, I would just be afraid that I still wouldn't be to attached.

I hardly felt attached to Ezio during 2, myself, and I only stared liking him by the ending. It was until Brotherhood that I started actually liking Ezio as a character. So yeah, that's my experience with that. It worked for Ezio, so why not for Connor (even though, admittedly, I like Connor a lot more already)? A game slightly longer than Brotherhood to finish off his story and give him a good sendoff without being overkill by making a trilogy.

Auditore8
12-12-2012, 04:50 AM
I liked Connor, I thought he was a great character, and I'd rather not see his story stretched across 3 games like Ezio's and end with a low. I'd like to see a new character for the next game instead

Rugterwyper32
12-12-2012, 04:58 AM
I liked Connor, I thought he was a great character, and I'd rather not see his story stretched across 3 games like Ezio's and end with a low. I'd like to see a new character for the next game instead

Here's what I think: Connor should have 1 more game, and that's it. There is a point where you can extend the story and make it work (Ezio's story could have ended in a good point with the DaVinci Disappearance DLC which was the most I feel his story should have been extended) and then there's overdoing it, which happened with Revelations. One more game with Connor to see him develop further, maybe give him a short animated movie of his final days as with Ezio, and that's it. It would expand on it and maybe it could add something else while not dragging things out to the point you don't want to see the character any longer.

XxJoeyPxx
12-12-2012, 05:06 AM
Connor has been my favorite assassin by far. At first I thought he was dull but then he grew on me. He has a lot more emotion then the past assassins and I love his hot temper. He made this my favorite creed game by far.

kefert
12-12-2012, 05:10 AM
If they manage to make him a less bland character, then I would welcome the sequel. However, they'd have a lot of explaining to do in-game to explain how Connor would've gone from an emotionless, uninteresting character to a more likeable, more relatable dude.

n97e
12-12-2012, 05:15 AM
There`s also the chance of not being attached with a new character;) Touche

LoyalACFan
12-12-2012, 05:19 AM
I'm not sure why some people think this is up for debate anymore... A Connor sequel IS coming. I'd bet my bottom dollar on it. Ideally, I'd like to see them wait until 2014 or even 2015 to make another huge game rather than a short, Brotherhood-style sequel, but realistically, I'm almost positive Connor will be back next fall.

BATISTABUS
12-12-2012, 05:21 AM
Connor was a fantastic character. Let's keep the tomahawk flying!

n97e
12-12-2012, 05:26 AM
. Ideally, I'd like to see them wait until 2014 or even 2015 to make another huge game rather than a short, Brotherhood-style sequel, Couldn't agree more

Bullet747
12-12-2012, 05:34 AM
YES! Please?

Rogue-Eaglet
12-12-2012, 06:14 AM
I'm not sure why some people think this is up for debate anymore... A Connor sequel IS coming. I'd bet my bottom dollar on it. Ideally, I'd like to see them wait until 2014 or even 2015 to make another huge game rather than a short, Brotherhood-style sequel, but realistically, I'm almost positive Connor will be back next fall.I'm seconding (or is it thirding?) this. We don't need this to be another trilogy, so why not focus on one huge installment to expand and wrap up Connor's life? This would also grant Ubisoft ample time to work on improving the mechanisms they introduced in AC3. In fact, why not take that time to work out on adding their idea of 'random missions', naval free-roam (and incorporate that canoeing in the Frontier), etc. If done right, it'd be a payoff for them skipping a year or two - it did with the jump from AC to ACII no?

Whichever route they go, I'm willing to bet we'll be seeing Connor again. Without wanting to spoil anyone, it was heavily hinted that there was room for a sequel in one of Connor's last conversations before moving to Desmond's ending scenes.

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 06:35 AM
I'm fourthing, fifthing the motion. Better wait till 2014-2015 and give us another AC3-size sequel with Connor rather than come back next year with a small sequel.

CalgaryJay
12-12-2012, 06:38 AM
Yes please

LoyalACFan
12-12-2012, 07:36 AM
Without wanting to spoil anyone, it was heavily hinted that there was room for a sequel in one of Connor's last conversations before moving to Desmond's ending scenes.

Could you PM me the conversation you're referring to? I know there's been a lot of speculation about a certain one of Washington's commanders, but I'm not sure which particular interaction you're talking about.

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 04:19 PM
YEah, I also remember "that" conversation. It definitely hints to atleast one more sequel.

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 04:22 PM
YES!

I don't care when! But the sooner the better! by making a brotherhood version of AC3, it will give developers time to create AC4.

RexNovus
12-12-2012, 04:26 PM
Unfortunately, I'm the "No, Never!" guy. Ofcourse I won't mind a DLC or something that doesn't expand the story too much, to give anyone who likes Connor some extra gameplay. However, for a new game I want a new character simply because I dislike Connor a lot. He has no charisma, is bland and rude and does not feel like an assassin at all. He's an Indian trying to save his village, and when he has the spare time he fights the templars. That was the feeling the game gave me. I'm not a big fan of AC3 in the first place anyway, too many plotholes/inconsistencies especially in Desmonds story (not Conners fault, ofcourse). I'm hoping for more Desmond and less Connor, simply because after all these games, it's still vague why Desmond was "the chosen one" kinda guy and he did next to nothing. Really wasted opportunities, I blame the milking of the franchise for the weak story.

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 04:31 PM
Unfortunately, I'm the "No, Never!" guy. Ofcourse I won't mind a DLC or something that doesn't expand the story too much, to give anyone who likes Connor some extra gameplay. However, for a new game I want a new character simply because I dislike Connor a lot. He has no charisma, is bland and rude and does not feel like an assassin at all. He's an Indian trying to save his village, and when he has the spare time he fights the templars. That was the feeling the game gave me. I'm not a big fan of AC3 in the first place anyway, too many plotholes/inconsistencies especially in Desmonds story (not Conners fault, ofcourse). I'm hoping for more Desmond and less Connor, simply because after all these games, it's still vague why Desmond was "the chosen one" kinda guy and he did next to nothing. Really wasted opportunities, I blame the milking of the franchise for the weak story.

your opinion about connor and i won't argue with it... much

question: Assassins are suppose to be charismatic, entertaining, and polite? maybe you just want another photocopy of ezio? well look no further my confused friend! Haytham is just the clone you are looking for!

STEALTH SNAKEY
12-12-2012, 04:33 PM
noo pleasse not another assasins creed with connor hes not cool :( i liked altair and ezio but this connor guy really made me wanna get rid of the game again..

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 04:39 PM
noo pleasse not another assasins creed with connor hes not cool :( i liked altair and ezio but this connor guy really made me wanna get rid of the game again..

Don't play the game then.. simple solution. :p

TinyTemplar
12-12-2012, 04:39 PM
I'd like Ubisoft to correct their mistake and develop Connor's personality better. He needs a second chance.

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 04:41 PM
I don't think they committed any "mistakes" in developing Connor, he is the way he is, dull, morose, non-charming, whateva. Thats the way he is, better stay consistent than suddenly massacre his character and make him something he's not.

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 04:48 PM
I'd like Ubisoft to correct their mistake and develop Connor's personality better. He needs a second chance.

they made no mistakes. he has a developed personality. you simply lack the character analyzation skills to see it.

the only mistake ubisoft made is being slightly complicated with there character development since i guess the majority of people like you simply lack reading comprehension skills.

next time they should dumb it down so its simple enough for the simpletons to understand.

RexNovus
12-12-2012, 04:52 PM
your opinion about connor and i won't argue with it... much

question: Assassins are suppose to be charismatic, entertaining, and polite? maybe you just want another photocopy of ezio? well look no further my confused friend! Haytham is just the clone you are looking for!

Ofcourse not, but I don't want to play a bland character either with not so great voice acting. Altair and Ezio certainly aren't clones of eachother, yet I enjoyed them both. And yes, Haytham was entertaining and certainly not a clone of Ezio or Altair. I don't want to spoil anything for others so I won't go into detail, but there were moments in the game Connor said things and I was like "What the heck are you doing and talking about?". I also think there was a lack of character development and if you need a sequel to develope a character, you're not doing it right in the first game.

TinyTemplar
12-12-2012, 04:55 PM
you simply lack the character analyzation skills to see it.

Well, thank you xD

STEALTH SNAKEY
12-12-2012, 04:59 PM
pleasse dont make another connor game it will destroy the Assasins creed reputation alot.

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 05:02 PM
pleasse dont make another connor game it will destroy the Assasins creed reputation alot.

I hope they make a thousand Connor games then.

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 05:08 PM
Ofcourse not, but I don't want to play a bland character either with not so great voice acting. Altair and Ezio certainly aren't clones of eachother, yet I enjoyed them both. And yes, Haytham was entertaining and certainly not a clone of Ezio or Altair. I don't want to spoil anything for others so I won't go into detail, but there were moments in the game Connor said things and I was like "What the heck are you doing and talking about?". I also think there was a lack of character development and if you need a sequel to develope a character, you're not doing it right in the first game.

ok..
1. Haytham is seen by the developers as "Our Evil James Bond"(quote from Alex himself). Ezio is a cliche arch-type of James Bond. By definition, that makes Haytham... Ezio Jr.(but evil)

2. It surprises me that you think Connors voice actor is worse than Altair's...

3. If a character is fully developed after the first game, when the plan is to make a sequel... that is the definition of horrible character development. that's like making a chapter book and the main character is fully developed at chapter 2. that's like making a series of novels that are projected to be a 5 book series, and having the character fully developed at book 1. that is NOT good character development, who ever told you such is either lying or stupid. Leaving no room for a character developed is a big no-no in writing. metaphorically listed under "Things not to do in writing".

4. If there were moments in the game where you questioned Connors choices.... that means the developers were doing something RIGHT

D.I.D.
12-12-2012, 05:22 PM
I've voted for "no", which is unfortunately labelled "nope, never".

I'll play another game featuring Connor, but I don't actively want to. If the series stays in the Americas for a 3.5, I can understand keeping Connor and I'm sure I'll play it, but I'd be more interested if it was Aveline.

Rugterwyper32
12-12-2012, 05:36 PM
Ofcourse not, but I don't want to play a bland character either with not so great voice acting. Altair and Ezio certainly aren't clones of eachother, yet I enjoyed them both. And yes, Haytham was entertaining and certainly not a clone of Ezio or Altair. I don't want to spoil anything for others so I won't go into detail, but there were moments in the game Connor said things and I was like "What the heck are you doing and talking about?". I also think there was a lack of character development and if you need a sequel to develope a character, you're not doing it right in the first game.

Connor had development, it was just ever so slight and you had to pay attention and do sidequests to do it. But you could see it was there. And considering they probably were already considering making a sequel, it makes sense they didn't develop him to his full extent. Yet he's grown, and given another game, we'll actively see more of that change. It's not doing it right in the first game, it's having more already planned and not stuffing your mouth with salad before you get to the main dish and you don't want anymore.
And I think they actually wanted you to, you know, question the protagonist's choices and sympathize with the antagonist. That was the whole point of playing as Haytham and of having Connor make the decisions he does. Makes both sides more human. Connor is only human, and that reflects in his choices. He makes mistakes, he does questionable things. Yet that's part of the great thing about his character. And as for the voice, from what I'm aware it suits him, and works for me. He's no Robert Carlyle or Patrick Stewart but hey, not everyone can be.

D.I.D.
12-12-2012, 05:47 PM
3. If a character is fully developed after the first game, when the plan is to make a sequel... that is the definition of horrible character development. that's like making a chapter book and the main character is fully developed at chapter 2. that's like making a series of novels that are projected to be a 5 book series, and having the character fully developed at book 1. that is NOT good character development, who ever told you such is either lying or stupid. Leaving no room for a character developed is a big no-no in writing. metaphorically listed under "Things not to do in writing".

That is such nonsense. You still develop your character in book 1 of a 5 book series. You don't consciously develop 20% of a character with a mind to develop 40% by the end of book 2. Also, nobody was asking for full development, just for full development within this span of years, which is perfectly reasonable. Of course he'll change in his 30s, 40s and beyond; that's not the point.

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 05:47 PM
I've voted for "no", which is unfortunately labelled "nope, never".

I'll play another game featuring Connor, but I don't actively want to. If the series stays in the Americas for a 3.5, I can understand keeping Connor and I'm sure I'll play it, but I'd be more interested if it was Aveline.

What if you could play both as Connor AND Aveline? Win win for me. Maybe you have to choose one at the beginning of your playthrough, or you choose one before each mission, like in Call of Juarez. Either way works for me. It would also be consistent with Ubisoft wanting campaign co-op in their games, no?

D.I.D.
12-12-2012, 05:51 PM
What if you could play both as Connor AND Aveline? Win win for me. Maybe you have to choose one at the beginning of your playthrough, or you choose one before each mission, like in Call of Juarez. Either way works for me. It would also be consistent with Ubisoft wanting campaign co-op in their games, no?

Yeah that's true, if they had a common relative at some point in the future.

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 05:53 PM
Connor is my favorite assassin.

Kee-are-ah
12-12-2012, 06:04 PM
I became really attached to Ezio and I think it'll take a sequal with Connor to fully appreciate him as a character :-)

prince162010
12-12-2012, 06:14 PM
i just want one sequal for connor

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 06:28 PM
As I saw the final fate of Connor, I KNEW I want more of him!!

BATISTABUS
12-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Ofcourse not, but I don't want to play a bland character either with not so great voice acting.

Altair and Ezio certainly aren't clones of eachother, yet I enjoyed them both.
How could you possibly think Connor had a bad voice actor but Altair didn't? Noah Watts is fantastic. Altair being recast was the best thing to happen to his portions of Revelations (even though I don't adore Cas Anvar's portrayal, its infinitely better than Philip Shahbaz).

Also, I only want one more Connor game. It's not that I expect to be sick of him, but I don't want the game to feel stale like Revelations.

Sushiglutton
12-12-2012, 08:21 PM
No fan of the voiceacting, but Connor movements are so amazing :D! It's a joy to play as him. I think one more game would be perfect. Perhaps he can meet a lady :). Maybe that would teach him to enjoy things a bit more.

matheus_737
12-12-2012, 08:33 PM
With the lessons he learned and the situations he pass the personality will change for even better he will act like a true assassin in the next great mission he take because the fails of his life will become a great knowledge to the future. And I hope he fight truly for the Order this time.

Torvaldesq
12-12-2012, 09:30 PM
That is such nonsense. You still develop your character in book 1 of a 5 book series. You don't consciously develop 20% of a character with a mind to develop 40% by the end of book 2. Also, nobody was asking for full development, just for full development within this span of years, which is perfectly reasonable. Of course he'll change in his 30s, 40s and beyond; that's not the point.


This is exactly right. With a good writer, even a child can be a "fully developed" character in the context of their age. By the time Connor is nearly 30 years old, he's had development that comports to someone who is a young teenager. They really failed to write a good character with Connor. He's not a "more human" character, he's just a tiny step up from the silent protagonists video games are famous for (with the little benefit of getting a better graphics engine for facial expressions). Instead of being silent, he just comes across like a naive simpleton (doubly atrocious, given the fact that the main plot gives him the benefit of an education by a former Assassin leader). The only thing really going for Connor is the same thing MOST well-liked video game characters have going for them - a cool appearance. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate awesome imagery as much as any person, but I'd rather not see them waste resources on giving Connor another AAA home console title.

I think a sequel with Connor is probably already being worked upon. I'm just hoping that it's something relegated to a handheld (like the way Altair had Bloodlines), so that whatever resources go into their next major console game can go into a new Assassin. Connor should have had a better story by the time he reached the end of AC 3. He had opportunity after opportunity to have better dialogue with Washington, Haytham, Achilles, or his best friend in the tribe. They didn't run out of time with him, they just had bad writing. And he's already exhausted the best story-telling potential he had. Achilles is dead. Haytham is dead. His best friend is dead. Prior to getting the game, I was really interested to find out how they would make their character have a strong relationship with Washington (which they hyped a little bit). Ultimately, it never really materialized. You barely have a worthwhile conversation with Washington, you just run errands for the Patriots a few times and Washington knows your name because you stopped an assassination attempt on him.

AC 3 could have been so much better. Not a bad game, but the wasted potential was enormous with Connor (and had nothing to do with Haytham, who was handled fine and didn't rob Connor of the time necessary to make a good character). I really dislike the idea of rewarding a character that wasted its potential with more games to try and make up for it. There is more potential in coming up with a new character at this point. If Connor had been interesting up until he was nearly 30, I'd be interested in following him into his 30's and 40's. It'd also flow better with the modern day story to drop Connor and pick up someone new (less important for a handheld, where the modern day story has been ignored totally as in Bloodlines, but more important for the console games where it ties the series together in an important way). When they come up with a new modern day protagonist, I want the reason for going to an ancestor's memory to be well thought out, and the introduction to a new modern day protagonist to nicely mirror an introduction to a new assassin in the past. Yeah, they COULD shoehorn Connor in with it still making sense, but the narrative will suffer.

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 09:51 PM
That is such nonsense. You still develop your character in book 1 of a 5 book series. You don't consciously develop 20% of a character with a mind to develop 40% by the end of book 2. Also, nobody was asking for full development, just for full development within this span of years, which is perfectly reasonable. Of course he'll change in his 30s, 40s and beyond; that's not the point.

did i say that there was a set percentage in which a character should be devolped? no. and nothing you said disagreed with what i said, so what are you even talking about? If you really don't see the growth of connor through his years, shame on you man. like for real, you clearly missed something.


This is exactly right. With a good writer, even a child can be a "fully developed" character in the context of their age. By the time Connor is nearly 30 years old, he's had development that comports to someone who is a young teenager. They really failed to write a good character with Connor. He's not a "more human" character, he's just a tiny step up from the silent protagonists video games are famous for (with the little benefit of getting a better graphics engine for facial expressions). Instead of being silent, he just comes across like a naive simpleton (doubly atrocious, given the fact that the main plot gives him the benefit of an education by a former Assassin leader). The only thing really going for Connor is the same thing MOST well-liked video game characters have going for them - a cool appearance. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate awesome imagery as much as any person, but I'd rather not see them waste resources on giving Connor another AAA home console title.

AC 3 could have been so much better. Not a bad game, but the wasted potential was enormous with Connor (and had nothing to do with Haytham, who was handled fine and didn't rob Connor of the time necessary to make a good character). I really dislike the idea of rewarding a character that wasted its potential with more games to try and make up for it. There is more potential in coming up with a new character at this point. If Connor had been interesting up until he was nearly 30, I'd be interested in following him into his 30's and 40's. It'd also flow better with the modern day story to drop Connor and pick up someone new (less important for a handheld, where the modern day story has been ignored totally as in Bloodlines, but more important for the console games where it ties the series together in an important way). When they come up with a new modern day protagonist, I want the reason for going to an ancestor's memory to be well thought out, and the introduction to a new modern day protagonist to nicely mirror an introduction to a new assassin in the past. Yeah, they COULD shoehorn Connor in with it still making sense, but the narrative will suffer.

you must no quite understand what devolpment is. alot of what you just said was EXTREMELY subjective. and frankly no one cares about your minority opinion. if you cannot grasp the complexity of a character than that is something you must look internally for the solution. not sure where you get this simpleton idea from... can you please tell me where he showed signs of lower intelligence? maybe perhaps he ceated strategems on how to get into charles lee's fort, and gave detailed description of why some access points would end in failure? maybe you are speaking of the time where he was put in charge of accounting book? only stupid people know how to use numbers and manage money right? maybe perhaps since he has a vast knowledge of seafaring? Maybe his lack of slang words in his vocabulary? i mean, we all know that slang words are a sign of intelligence!? hmmm, could it be because he is multi-lingual? must be, because we all know it's easy for simpltons to be fluent in mutiple languages.

seems to me that you simply don't like connor because he "isn't interesting" to you. subjective.

seems to me that you don't like connor because he had so much potential. guess you'd rather the devs miss and give up, than get back try again. not everyone is a quitter like im implying you to be.

TheBearJew32
12-12-2012, 10:16 PM
Bring Conner back, but have him die or be killed. Then after the credits have something that makes you either question whether he's really dead, or give a hint at a new assassin for the next game. you know, make the audience think...CHRIS NOLAN STYLE! INCEPTION!!!! (horns blow) wait what?

LoyalACFan
12-12-2012, 10:37 PM
Bring Conner back, but have him die or be killed. Then after the credits have something that makes you either question whether he's really dead, or give a hint at a new assassin for the next game. you know, make the audience think...CHRIS NOLAN STYLE! INCEPTION!!!! (horns blow) wait what?

It would be a cool way to bookend Connor's story; start off with his father before his birth, and play as his son to witness his death. As much as I loved Ezio's death in Embers, I really don't want any more outside media that contains extremely important plot points...

Torvaldesq
12-12-2012, 10:53 PM
did i say that there was a set percentage in which a character should be devolped? no. and nothing you said disagreed with what i said, so what are you even talking about? If you really don't see the growth of connor through his years, shame on you man. like for real, you clearly missed something.



you must no quite understand what devolpment is. alot of what you just said was EXTREMELY subjective. and frankly no one cares about your minority opinion. if you cannot grasp the complexity of a character than that is something you must look internally for the solution. not sure where you get this simpleton idea from... can you please tell me where he showed signs of lower intelligence? maybe perhaps he ceated strategems on how to get into charles lee's fort, and gave detailed description of why some access points would end in failure? maybe you are speaking of the time where he was put in charge of accounting book? only stupid people know how to use numbers and manage money right? maybe perhaps since he has a vast knowledge of seafaring? Maybe his lack of slang words in his vocabulary? i mean, we all know that slang words are a sign of intelligence!? hmmm, could it be because he is multi-lingual? must be, because we all know it's easy for simpltons to be fluent in mutiple languages.

seems to me that you simply don't like connor because he "isn't interesting" to you. subjective.

seems to me that you don't like connor because he had so much potential. guess you'd rather the devs miss and give up, than get back try again. not everyone is a quitter like im implying you to be.

Saying that things are opinions or subjective is about the weakest defense anyone can levy against criticism of a character. There's really no other response necessary to that diatribe.

As for your spiel about him handling accounting books, knowing how to be a seafarer, and understanding combat mechanics - no, none of that renders him into an intelligent character. An intelligent character who is motivated by protecting his tribe would have serious dialogue about the merits of supporting the Patriots or the British. Connor's dialogue makes him look like nothing more like an errand boy with the personality of cardboard when a complex issue like that is raised. Connor could also have had a far more interesting side of his conversations with Haytham and with Achilles about the Assassins and the Templars. Haytham had some good dialogue in his final fight with Connor, but Connor's side of the conversation is exactly as stupid as Haytham seems to find it. It was sad to see the writing giving Connor some good set-ups with Haytham's side of conversations, only for Connor to basically go, "Derrrrr I like freedom" and "Me hates Charles Lee." Yes, it's a slight exaggeration, but only SLIGHT.

Giving the player the ability to manage finances or sail a boat doesn't magically render Connor into an intelligent character. That's just letting the player engage in some side-games. It has ZERO impact on Connor's character that I - the human player - could tell a guy to make a barrel out of wood then sell it. The naval missions make for some fun gameplay, but plotwise we all saw how Connor became a Captain. He basically stepped on the boat knowing nothing, and the first mate was like, "I'll call you Captain and you can give orders and we'll all do what you say!" The naval missions improve the gameplay, they do not improve the writing for the character. It's actually one of the more ridiculous aspects of the game's writing, right in line with Patriots saying that they need your help so that you can ride between three lines of patriots just to tell them to fire their guns at Redcoats (cause it's not like they'd have an officer to do that) or when they have you take command of a cannon at Monmouth as if only you can stop the British advance (because it's not like the army doesn't have tons of people trained to do exactly that). But at least with the naval stuff, it's well done gameplay (can't say the same for the cannon or for telling soldiers to fire their guns, which felt pretty boring).

This has nothing to do with being a quitter. It has everything to do with botched potential. If a character couldn't make good use of all his formative relationships up until nearly the age of 30, why would I want them to keep going with him past 30? I'd be interested in a new assassin a lot more than Connor.

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 11:03 PM
Saying that things are opinions or subjective is about the weakest defense anyone can levy against criticism of a character. There's really no other response necessary to that diatribe.

As for your spiel about him handling accounting books, knowing how to be a seafarer, and understanding combat mechanics - no, none of that renders him into an intelligent character. An intelligent character who is motivated by protecting his tribe would have serious dialogue about the merits of supporting the Patriots or the British. Connor's dialogue makes him look like nothing more like an errand boy with the personality of cardboard when a complex issue like that is raised. Connor could also have had a far more interesting side of his conversations with Haytham and with Achilles about the Assassins and the Templars. Haytham had some good dialogue in his final fight with Connor, but Connor's side of the conversation is exactly as stupid as Haytham seems to find it. It was sad to see the writing giving Connor some good set-ups with Haytham's side of conversations, only for Connor to basically go, "Derrrrr I like freedom" and "Me hates Charles Lee." Yes, it's a slight exaggeration, but only SLIGHT.

Giving the player the ability to manage finances or sail a boat doesn't magically render Connor into an intelligent character. That's just letting the player engage in some side-games. It has ZERO impact on Connor's character that I - the human player - could tell a guy to make a barrel out of wood then sell it. The naval missions make for some fun gameplay, but plotwise we all saw how Connor became a Captain. He basically stepped on the boat knowing nothing, and the first mate was like, "I'll call you Captain and you can give orders and we'll all do what you say!" The naval missions improve the gameplay, they do not improve the writing for the character. It's actually one of the more ridiculous aspects of the game's writing, right in line with Patriots saying that they need your help so that you can ride between three lines of patriots just to tell them to fire their guns at Redcoats (cause it's not like they'd have an officer to do that) or when they have you take command of a cannon at Monmouth as if only you can stop the British advance (because it's not like the army doesn't have tons of people trained to do exactly that). But at least with the naval stuff, it's well done gameplay (can't say the same for the cannon or for telling soldiers to fire their guns, which felt pretty boring).

This has nothing to do with being a quitter. It has everything to do with botched potential. If a character couldn't make good use of all his formative relationships up until nearly the age of 30, why would I want them to keep going with him past 30? I'd be interested in a new assassin a lot more than Connor.

forget it dude.

theres no point arguing with the blind. if you cannot see it, don't assume everybody else can't as well. its done. Connor will be getting another game. hopefully you have a second chance at analysing him as a character because it is now obvious your first attempt was a fail on a massive scale. you are what i consider, "A Surface Reader". take that however you want. i simply don't have the patience to argue with a literary simpleton.

ziljn
12-12-2012, 11:58 PM
This is exactly right. With a good writer, even a child can be a "fully developed" character in the context of their age. By the time Connor is nearly 30 years old, he's had development that comports to someone who is a young teenager. They really failed to write a good character with Connor. He's not a "more human" character, he's just a tiny step up from the silent protagonists video games are famous for (with the little benefit of getting a better graphics engine for facial expressions). Instead of being silent, he just comes across like a naive simpleton (doubly atrocious, given the fact that the main plot gives him the benefit of an education by a former Assassin leader). The only thing really going for Connor is the same thing MOST well-liked video game characters have going for them - a cool appearance. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate awesome imagery as much as any person, but I'd rather not see them waste resources on giving Connor another AAA home console title.

I think a sequel with Connor is probably already being worked upon. I'm just hoping that it's something relegated to a handheld (like the way Altair had Bloodlines), so that whatever resources go into their next major console game can go into a new Assassin. Connor should have had a better story by the time he reached the end of AC 3. He had opportunity after opportunity to have better dialogue with Washington, Haytham, Achilles, or his best friend in the tribe. They didn't run out of time with him, they just had bad writing. And he's already exhausted the best story-telling potential he had. Achilles is dead. Haytham is dead. His best friend is dead. Prior to getting the game, I was really interested to find out how they would make their character have a strong relationship with Washington (which they hyped a little bit). Ultimately, it never really materialized. You barely have a worthwhile conversation with Washington, you just run errands for the Patriots a few times and Washington knows your name because you stopped an assassination attempt on him.

AC 3 could have been so much better. Not a bad game, but the wasted potential was enormous with Connor (and had nothing to do with Haytham, who was handled fine and didn't rob Connor of the time necessary to make a good character). I really dislike the idea of rewarding a character that wasted its potential with more games to try and make up for it. There is more potential in coming up with a new character at this point. If Connor had been interesting up until he was nearly 30, I'd be interested in following him into his 30's and 40's. It'd also flow better with the modern day story to drop Connor and pick up someone new (less important for a handheld, where the modern day story has been ignored totally as in Bloodlines, but more important for the console games where it ties the series together in an important way). When they come up with a new modern day protagonist, I want the reason for going to an ancestor's memory to be well thought out, and the introduction to a new modern day protagonist to nicely mirror an introduction to a new assassin in the past. Yeah, they COULD shoehorn Connor in with it still making sense, but the narrative will suffer.

Right on the money. So many wasted opportunities, such poor writing. I'd much rather see new protagonist than invest time in a Connor redemption story.

Torvaldesq
12-13-2012, 12:00 AM
forget it dude.

theres no point arguing with the blind. if you cannot see it, don't assume everybody else can't as well. its done. Connor will be getting another game. hopefully you have a second chance at analysing him as a character because it is now obvious your first attempt was a fail on a massive scale. you are what i consider, "A Surface Reader". take that however you want. i simply don't have the patience to argue with a literary simpleton.

It's like you see smart people using words like "simpleton" and think that by using them yourself it helps your argument. It doesn't, especially when acute examples have been given of why the character fails to demonstrate the depth or complexity that someone in his situation ought to. His relationships are poorly handled throughout the game, and no advance in graphics that gives a slightly more apparent facial expression will change that. This isn't "surface reading." The script in AC 3 for Connor is atrocious. I'd expect better writing out of an English class in a highschool. Maybe the best sign of that is how often his defenders fall back on, "It's your opinion!" and "This is subjective!" That's what bad writers and bad artists rely on to defend themselves. I guess in the internet age, they also sometimes use phrases like "massive fail" to try and deflect analysis of their failure. In any case, I don't expect him to be a much better character in the future when they couldn't do well with such a strong cast of characters in the past. Him getting another game - to the extent it's happening - was probably something in the works prior to AC 3 being released.

The kicker is that you are quite well aware of how poorly he was written. You're devoted to the character for reasons other than how his story was written (probably you've been enthralled with the idea of Connor since prior to AC 3's release date), and you can barely hold yourself back from attacking Haytham (wrongfully) because of how poorly developed Connor is.

Deadlysyns666
12-13-2012, 12:14 AM
It's like you see smart people using words like "simpleton" and think that by using them yourself it helps your argument. It doesn't, especially when acute examples have been given of why the character fails to demonstrate the depth or complexity that someone in his situation ought to. His relationships are poorly handled throughout the game, and no advance in graphics that gives a slightly more apparent facial expression will change that. This isn't "surface reading." The script in AC 3 for Connor is atrocious. I'd expect better writing out of an English class in a highschool. Maybe the best sign of that is how often his defenders fall back on, "It's your opinion!" and "This is subjective!" That's what bad writers and bad artists rely on to defend themselves. I guess in the internet age, they also sometimes use phrases like "massive fail" to try and deflect analysis of their failure. In any case, I don't expect him to be a much better character in the future when they couldn't do well with such a strong cast of characters in the past. Him getting another game - to the extent it's happening - was probably something in the works prior to AC 3 being released.

The kicker is that you are quite well aware of how poorly he was written. You're devoted to the character for reasons other than how his story was written (probably you've been enthralled with the idea of Connor since prior to AC 3's release date), and you can barely hold yourself back from attacking Haytham (wrongfully) because of how poorly developed Connor is. Connor is Native American so most of what occurs in AC3 is new to him. he doesn't know how the world works. Remember what he said about Boston

FirestarLuva
12-13-2012, 12:35 AM
I think Connor's story is the best one so far. It's just much harder to understand Connor as a character and his story. I didn't get some parts of the story until I replayed them again. If you think it's poor writing because Connor is a dull character, the thing is, Connor is supposed to be the opposite of Ezio; Ezio was charismatic, fun, friendly, bright, achieved his goals, he's everything you'd ever want in a hero, a guy everyone wants to be.
Now, Connor, he is a sad, 'dull', melancholic, introvert character who is a lot more complex to understand. Connor is not the typical video game character you usually meet in games, he'd fend off better in a novel if you ask me. I think people judge Connor and AC3 too harshly, I mean, come on, it's been just a month since it's release. Let it lie down.
Also, about the poor writing and waisted potential, many people, be it friends or relatives who I know that are writers/artists, after playing the game and reading about Connor, neither of them describe him as a 'lame' or a character with a wasted potential. From my experience, Altair and Connor seem to be a much bigger competition and inspiration to writers/artists because of their introvert and complex personality, rather than Ezio, who was a character made to be instantly loved by the audience, which is no surprise.
To add one more thing, I'm not defending Connor or AC3 and trying to make them flawless, I can assure you I'm not a Connor or AC fangirl, I play other games as well, but AC is the only series I've followed from the beginning because of the first game and Altair. I wound't actually describe myself as a hardcore gamer either, since gaming is not my top priority.

TheBearJew32
12-13-2012, 02:53 AM
" I really don't want any more outside media that contains extremely important plot points..."
yeah like lucy and cross. ridiculous

Assassin_M
12-13-2012, 02:58 AM
Do not enforce Opinions.

Nothing is correct, everything is subjective..

So, everyone...Shut the hell up, Vote and JUST say why...Arguing sucks...it`s annoying, because NO ONE will change what he/she thinks....So..back on bloody topic

ProdiGurl
12-13-2012, 10:16 AM
It's like you see smart people using words like "simpleton" and think that by using them yourself it helps your argument. It doesn't, especially when acute examples have been given of why the character fails to demonstrate the depth or complexity that someone in his situation ought to. His relationships are poorly handled throughout the game, and no advance in graphics that gives a slightly more apparent facial expression will change that. This isn't "surface reading." The script in AC 3 for Connor is atrocious. I'd expect better writing out of an English class in a highschool. Maybe the best sign of that is how often his defenders fall back on, "It's your opinion!" and "This is subjective!" That's what bad writers and bad artists rely on to defend themselves. I guess in the internet age, they also sometimes use phrases like "massive fail" to try and deflect analysis of their failure. In any case, I don't expect him to be a much better character in the future when they couldn't do well with such a strong cast of characters in the past. Him getting another game - to the extent it's happening - was probably something in the works prior to AC 3 being released.

The kicker is that you are quite well aware of how poorly he was written. You're devoted to the character for reasons other than how his story was written (probably you've been enthralled with the idea of Connor since prior to AC 3's release date), and you can barely hold yourself back from attacking Haytham (wrongfully) because of how poorly developed Connor is.

IMO, ever since ACR the writing has suffered to some extent & I noted this last year in my feedback w/ ACR. They are not using their characters to their full potentials.
Relationships suffer tragically in the writing direction they've taken in both installations now - however, I feel they did much better w/ AC3 than ACR.
Lost opportunities and potential.
But with that said, I don't see how it's any case for not having another game w/ Connor - this same issue would only be present for the next Protagonist & the relationships surrounding them. So as far as writing weakness alone goes, I'm not sure it matters who the Protagonist is, it may as well be Connor since it would be alot easier & less time consuming than building a new one.


I think Connor's story is the best one so far. It's just much harder to understand Connor as a character and his story. I didn't get some parts of the story until I replayed them again. If you think it's poor writing because Connor is a dull character, the thing is, Connor is supposed to be the opposite of Ezio; Ezio was charismatic, fun, friendly, bright, achieved his goals, he's everything you'd ever want in a hero, a guy everyone wants to be.
Now, Connor, he is a sad, 'dull', melancholic, introvert character who is a lot more complex to understand. Connor is not the typical video game character you usually meet in games, he'd fend off better in a novel if you ask me. I think people judge Connor and AC3 too harshly, I mean, come on, it's been just a month since it's release. Let it lie down.
Also, about the poor writing and waisted potential, many people, be it friends or relatives who I know that are writers/artists, after playing the game and reading about Connor, neither of them describe him as a 'lame' or a character with a wasted potential. From my experience, Altair and Connor seem to be a much bigger competition and inspiration to writers/artists because of their introvert and complex personality, rather than Ezio, who was a character made to be instantly loved by the audience, which is no surprise.
To add one more thing, I'm not defending Connor or AC3 and trying to make them flawless, I can assure you I'm not a Connor or AC fangirl, I play other games as well, but AC is the only series I've followed from the beginning because of the first game and Altair. I wound't actually describe myself as a hardcore gamer either, since gaming is not my top priority.

I love his character and that it's not some cliche' bore. (not that any of our assassins were either). He has depth as a basic introvert with naivety and strong sense of justice.

D.I.D.
12-13-2012, 11:04 AM
did i say that there was a set percentage in which a character should be devolped? no. and nothing you said disagreed with what i said, so what are you even talking about? If you really don't see the growth of connor through his years, shame on you man. like for real, you clearly missed something.

You didn't use the word "percentages", but you essentially said the same thing. According to you, it's fine that Connor is somewhat of an unfinished character by his late 20s because later instalments will fill him out.

Much like the last time you tried to tell me what writing is, you have conflated facets of writing because you do not understand what they are. This time you're mixing up "character development" with "story". The last piece of the story should drop in on the last stage of a book (or series of books) but there is no expectation that a character will emerge in a drip-drip fashion, with the last part of their personality emerging in those pages.

The character is a vessel through which the reader experiences the bulk or the entirety of a story. Unless the author is threading some kind of esoteric mystery throughout a book regarding the true nature of their character, or making a conscious effort to turn their character into a blank witness to events, then the character ought to be solid, knowable and familiar as the person he or she is at that time. There are stories whose strength lies in the idea that the character is deliberately allowed to be nebulous in order that the reader can imprint his or her own ideas upon the action, but AC is not that kind of narrative.

So yes, Connor grows, but for some reason he remains childish. The writers show him having weird tantrums in lieu of true turmoil, and that leaves a lot of us conflicted. I'm really pleased that they included a character from a culture that is badly neglected by popular media, but I also think it's regrettable that they threw a lot of that potential away by failing to write Connor as a fully formed adult man.

You were responding to a person whose complaint was that Connor says bizarre things throughout AC3 and that there was a lack of character development, and you proceeded to yet again make a claim to superior knowledge of the craft of writing. It's hard to leave that unchallenged when frankly your posts reveal that even your command of English is not especially strong.

D.I.D.
12-13-2012, 11:36 AM
Prior to getting the game, I was really interested to find out how they would make their character have a strong relationship with Washington (which they hyped a little bit). Ultimately, it never really materialized. You barely have a worthwhile conversation with Washington, you just run errands for the Patriots a few times and Washington knows your name because you stopped an assassination attempt on him.

I agree with the rest of your post as well, but yes, this was one of those odd things. That (optional) conversation with Washington is particularly weird. Connor verbally attacks Washington for spending so many hours playing games instead of dealing with the pressing realities of his rank, and then immediately plays a game of Bocce with him. There they stand, complimenting each other on their shots and making humorous warnings to each other about the shot to come. It's freakishly jarring.

ProdiGurl
12-13-2012, 12:27 PM
>>It's freakishly jarring. <<
lol
O.o I haven't gotten to that part....& I'm a little concerned heh.

I have very few complaints about AC - I adore the series but as a novice, I even see some of the writing weaknesses in the past 2 releases.
They don't kill it for me at all, I just think they could shine more if writing quality were stepped up and paid deeper attn. to.

ProdiGurl
12-13-2012, 12:31 PM
>>It's freakishly jarring. <<
lol
O.o I haven't gotten to that part....& I'm a little concerned heh.

I have very few complaints about AC - I adore the series but as a novice, I even see some of the writing weaknesses in the past 2 releases.
They don't kill it for me at all, I just think they could shine more if writing quality were stepped up and paid deeper attn. to.

>> So yes, Connor grows, but for some reason he remains childish. <<<
That may not be a writing issue, it may be that he remains on the immature side as an adult ? Lord knows that's a realistic enough concept that adults act immature.

D.I.D.
12-13-2012, 01:04 PM
>>It's freakishly jarring. <<
lol
O.o I haven't gotten to that part....& I'm a little concerned heh.

I have very few complaints about AC - I adore the series but as a novice, I even see some of the writing weaknesses in the past 2 releases.
They don't kill it for me at all, I just think they could shine more if writing quality were stepped up and paid deeper attn. to.

(Don't worry too much about that Washington bit. It's just a minor aside, really. Still, it's strange how it goes down, and there's a lot of stuff like that.)

I agree. It doesn't kill the game for me but it sets a ceiling on it, if you see what I mean. I know people will point to earlier AC games, but I'd prefer a campy pantomime that hits its targets, like Brotherhood, to a game which thinks too much of itself and constantly drops clangers throughout. Obviously I want ambition but I can't applaud ambition alone, when a century of cinema has already mapped out the territory.

Also, Revelations really raised the bar on the visual presentation, and AC3 exceeds that, so we're in a different area of entertainment now. That's good, and it's a problem. I could pass off AC1-ACB's rough edges because, even though it was only a few years ago, that was a time when you would make allowances for the fact that they were games and these stories were better than their contemporaries. Now that the visuals are becoming so much more human, the writing needs to rise to match them.



>> So yes, Connor grows, but for some reason he remains childish. <<<
That may not be a writing issue, it may be that he remains on the immature side as an adult ? Lord knows that's a realistic enough concept that adults act immature.

Yeah, I think that's part of it. There's certainly, as you were saying, an attempt to show his naivety but because it's handled in such a blurry way it comes off as being borderline insulting to me. At best it's a bad cliché, and at worst they've allowed a character from a marginalised culture to be depicted as unsophisticated. It wouldn't be too hard to make a character who is appealingly clear-eyed and trusting without him being quite so stunted. Connor might feel more rounded if the features of his personality affected the story, but there's not a lot of interaction between Connor's qualities and the events of the story.

I've mentioned in other threads that I'm pretty sure Connor's bratty moments have something to do with the game's marketing towards a teenage audience, and are meant to strike a chord with them. I felt similarly about Altair in AC1, where the character's angsty script and brusque delivery seemed to be strongly reminiscent of the US overdubs of Japanese anime, and I wondered if perhaps the game was trying to capitalise on the popularity of anime among a large subset of US teenagers.

Torvaldesq
12-13-2012, 09:43 PM
I agree with the rest of your post as well, but yes, this was one of those odd things. That (optional) conversation with Washington is particularly weird. Connor verbally attacks Washington for spending so many hours playing games instead of dealing with the pressing realities of his rank, and then immediately plays a game of Bocce with him. There they stand, complimenting each other on their shots and making humorous warnings to each other about the shot to come. It's freakishly jarring.

Just got to say, not so much as a criticism of the story but just kind of a weird line delivery for a mini-game, I always chuckled a little bit when Connor would throw the ball, I had completely messed up the throw and wasn't close to getting the points necessary to win, and Connor would yell out, "I am happy with that!" No Connor. No, we're not happy with that. George Washington just routed our bocce balls like it was his job.

D.I.D.
12-14-2012, 01:01 AM
Just got to say, not so much as a criticism of the story but just kind of a weird line delivery for a mini-game, I always chuckled a little bit when Connor would throw the ball, I had completely messed up the throw and wasn't close to getting the points necessary to win, and Connor would yell out, "I am happy with that!" No Connor. No, we're not happy with that. George Washington just routed our bocce balls like it was his job.

And also, (SPOILERS)

DUDE ORDERED THE DESTRUCTION SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO YOU

(SPOILERS)

TWICE

Assassin_M
12-14-2012, 01:32 AM
^Tip..

Invisible text in middle of Post #171717

Baked_Cookies
12-14-2012, 07:45 PM
I honestly loved AC3 and Connor he was a new face bringing different stuff into the series. But I think in the end Connors story is a little over I mean the main people that troubled his cause and helped ruin things around him are all dead. He kinda finished his story all inside AC3. I dont think a second title would really do him or his story line any justice he kinda finished what he had going on for him. And Ezio is by far my favorite assassin but even he didnt need 3 titles. All I know is new game new assassin

Felix-Vivo
12-14-2012, 10:50 PM
I would like one more game with Connor. I feel the most attached to him out of all the Assassin's. Just one, though.

Assassin_M
12-14-2012, 10:54 PM
I would like one more game with Connor. I feel the most attached to him out of all the Assassin's. Just one, though.
Just this...

Just one more game, Ubisoft OK ???

FirestarLuva
12-14-2012, 10:58 PM
Just this...

Just one more game, Ubisoft OK ???

And have it come out in 2014. :P

Assassin_M
12-14-2012, 11:00 PM
And have it come out in 2014. :P
I wish....Ohhhh I wish....

FirestarLuva
12-14-2012, 11:02 PM
I wish....Ohhhh I wish....

I'd rather have one more Connor game in 2014 rather than two more games. Maybe instead of a third one they can make a CGI movie or something similar. Also, Alex did say they'll be very careful with Connor sequels if they decide to do them, not pushing it to the extreme like they did with Ezio. Personally, another game with the same story length as AC2 is welcomed by me. :3

TrueAssassin77
12-14-2012, 11:03 PM
... i want AC3.5 next year... sorry guys

TheBearJew32
12-14-2012, 11:04 PM
One more game, and have him be killed. I think this will provide the best story (i.e setting up for a new assassin) And let us witness it in the game...not through DLC or extra media.
This is just an idea though, im looking forward either way

Assassin_M
12-14-2012, 11:05 PM
... i want AC3.5 next year... sorry guys
They don't just listen to you....Nor anyone here for that matter

FirestarLuva
12-14-2012, 11:07 PM
One more game, and have him be killed. I think this will provide the best story (i.e setting up for a new assassin) And let us witness it in the game...not through DLC or extra media.
This is just an idea though, im looking forward either way

Yeah, have him killed would be a great, emotional way of ending his story. Let's just hope he gets enough screen time if the next game is his last. Even his voice actor says him dying would be a great way for his fans to connect and sympathize with him a lot more. :)