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View Full Version : The Irony behind the Assassin Cause !! ( Spoiler dont read if not beaten game )



MasterAssasin84
11-24-2012, 05:45 PM
After going through AC3 and seeing Desmonds Ending It really occured to me how Assassins creed is clever story Telling,

For centuries The Assassins have been locked in a battle with Templars to preserve Freedom and mankind but after desmonds decision
to touch the orb and release Juno only to conqure the world it struck that the Assassins have caused the very thing they set out to stop,

Now both Juno and Minerva gave Desmond a choice based on two scenarios as a result of desmonds decision as to what it could cause.

For Centuries the Assassins preached that nothing good will come easy neither will the journey be pleasent, it seems now that the Assassins
have ensured our destruction and enslavement rather than our freedom.

Could Juno be the Templar that come before ? if Desmond did take minervas would the pain the earth would endure lead us into freedom ?


What are your thoughts on this ? Because the way i see it the Assassin Brotherhood have opened up a can of worms setting Juno Free .

pirate1802
11-24-2012, 05:56 PM
inb4 ending suxxxx it makes no senze franchise ruined!

But seriously, Juno and Templar's motives are quite different. they use the same method (control) sure, but their motives are different. The ACR MP files made it clear that the Templars aim to unlock the potential in mankind that the TWCB locked away. So they are square against each other. Infact were a Templar standing in Desmond's place, he'd have no hesitation selecting the other option; that is everything a Templar dreams of: A world with handful of civilians, controlled by your faction. In time you become their gods. Its a Templar wet dream.

Infact, I see in future ACs, Assassins and Templars teaming up to fight Juno.

MasterAssasin84
11-24-2012, 06:19 PM
inb4 ending suxxxx it makes no senze franchise ruined!

But seriously, Juno and Templar's motives are quite different. they use the same method (control) sure, but their motives are different. The ACR MP files made it clear that the Templars aim to unlock the potential in mankind that the TWCB locked away. So they are square against each other. Infact were a Templar standing in Desmond's place, he'd have no hesitation selecting the other option; that is everything a Templar dreams of: A world with handful of civilians, controlled by your faction. In time you become their gods. Its a Templar wet dream.

Infact, I see in future ACs, Assassins and Templars teaming up to fight Juno.


Its quite a complex situation it seems as though the Assassins and Templars are pawns for a greater Cause !!, and the Mayan Callender actualy ends december 2012 from which it predicted
the return of an ancient diety or being, i am speculating that being could be Juno ?.

If you listen to Minerve when she is talking to desmond she says that due to the Assassins and Templars squabling for Centuries has cleared the way for a greater threat , would be very unfortunate for the Assassins as they have put man kind in a greater danger purely because the Assassins beat the Templars to the grand Temple but through bad judgement and desperation
to fufill their duty it has lead to the enslavement of mankind and our freedom completely banished which is what the templars clearly wanted - order , structure , purpose and direction only the fact
that Juno now holds the power to direct mankind to a new dawn and the templars dreams have been fufilled through the Assassins ignorance .

Makes sense right.

pirate1802
11-24-2012, 06:30 PM
Its quite a complex situation it seems as though the Assassins and Templars are pawns for a greater Cause !!, and the Mayan Callender actualy ends december 2012 from which it predicted
the return of an ancient diety or being, i am speculating that being could be Juno ?.

If you listen to Minerve when she is talking to desmond she says that due to the Assassins and Templars squabling for Centuries has cleared the way for a greater threat , would be very unfortunate for the Assassins as they have put man kind in a greater danger purely because the Assassins beat the Templars to the grand Temple but through bad judgement and desperation
to fufill their duty it has lead to the enslavement of mankind and our freedom completely banished which is what the templars clearly wanted - order , structure , purpose and direction only the fact
that Juno now holds the power to direct mankind to a new dawn and the templars dreams have been fufilled through the Assassins ignorance .

Makes sense right.

Doesn't seem like Juno would guide mankind towards a new dawn.. more like re-enslave them under TWCB. Templars wouldn't want that.

LightRey
11-24-2012, 06:37 PM
If Desmond would've taken Minerva's path the cycle would begin anew. Humanity would be where it was after the first disaster and end up in the same kind of state with the next one. Doesn't sound much better than the danger of enslavement by Juno now does it? In fact, Juno can be stopped.

MasterAssasin84
11-24-2012, 06:38 PM
Doesn't seem like Juno would guide mankind towards a new dawn.. more like re-enslave them under TWCB. Templars wouldn't want that.

No But the Templars wanted a New World order well manking answered to one supreme being which is what Juno was planning all along , i mean if you look at all the illumiminati Scriptures in
modern and past history it explains as much.

Juno quite clearly favoured order and direction which was a smoke screen for enslavement which the Templars themselves was scheming.

Another irony is the Assassins are all about free will and a free mind but them thenselves are bound to a certain code of law and order ?

Thats why i think the story itself is fantasticaly crafted. The Assassin Creed seems heavily doctrine.

LightRey
11-24-2012, 06:42 PM
No But the Templars wanted a New World order well manking answered to one supreme being which is what Juno was planning all along , i mean if you look at all the illumiminati Scriptures in
modern and past history it explains as much.

Juno quite clearly favoured order and direction which was a smoke screen for enslavement which the Templars themselves was scheming.

Another irony is the Assassins are all about free will and a free mind but them thenselves are bound to a certain code of law and order ?

Thats why i think the story itself is fantasticaly crafted. The Assassin Creed seems heavily doctrine.
No, that's not what the Templars want. The Templars want humanity to be controlled by those that know what's best for them. They want nothing of "supreme beings" and they seem to detest TWCB. Furthermore, they want to awaken "what should have been ours from the moment of creation", most likely referring to the Sixth Sense/Eagle Vision, another thing Juno very much opposes.

Juno just wants to get back at humanity for the war.

H4rry Pl0pper
11-24-2012, 06:45 PM
After going through AC3 and seeing Desmonds Ending It really occured to me how Assassins creed is clever story Telling,

For centuries The Assassins have been locked in a battle with Templars to preserve Freedom and mankind but after desmonds decision
to touch the orb and release Juno only to conqure the world it struck that the Assassins have caused the very thing they set out to stop,

Now both Juno and Minerva gave Desmond a choice based on two scenarios as a result of desmonds decision as to what it could cause.

For Centuries the Assassins preached that nothing good will come easy neither will the journey be pleasent, it seems now that the Assassins
have ensured our destruction and enslavement rather than our freedom.

Could Juno be the Templar that come before ? if Desmond did take minervas would the pain the earth would endure lead us into freedom ?


What are your thoughts on this ? Because the way i see it the Assassin Brotherhood have opened up a can of worms setting Juno Free .
agreed^

pacmanate
11-24-2012, 06:45 PM
I wonder if the next AC game will be the same "universe" if you know what I mean, and if it will be before or after Desmonds story (guessing after). If so I would like too see Assassin's and Templars unite against Juno.

Shingram
11-24-2012, 06:47 PM
For a brief moment I was like "Hmm interesting now the idea of freedom vs no freedom comes up".

But with the middle ages and most of the A vs T storyline it's about the templars wanting to enslave and control mankind for really no particular reason. At least with Nathan he wanted to prevent the revolutionary war and seemed to actually be trying to save the natives. Most templars were just selfish. But at the end it's a completely unrelated choice now.

Y'see Desmond is shown BILLIONS being murdered. That does NOT come anywhere close to reflecting the assassins methods or goals. They would kill a few political figures not entire cities or populations! So now it's a completely different ballgame and has nothing to do with anything previously done in the AC games.

He says it perfectly "We'll fight her" Seeing as how a small group of homo sapiens beat multiple First civ people with almost zero technology it stand to common sense that 7 billion people with much better human technology can beat ONE SINGLE first civ. So it's really not a hard choice. He also accurately says "(killing 7 bil) there's no hope there." The assassin order was all about killing those trying to ensalve and control people so that all the people who were alive could have free will. You can't have free will when you and 7 billion others are dead lol.

For some reason ubisofts writers failed to see all of these plot holes and did not realize how extraordinarily thin the comparison really is. Again for a brief moment I was like Ok so is this like control vs freedom...but then I quickly realized...no it's not cant be free if you're murdered and no one lives.

Also they show the future if Desmond lets the world go to he** but they dont show what happens if he lets Juno awaken?

pirate1802
11-24-2012, 06:47 PM
If so I would like too see Assassin's and Templars unite against Juno.

Me too..

LightRey
11-24-2012, 06:49 PM
Me too..
They wouldn't and it would only serve to slow both sides down. William explained that in quite a lot of detail in ACIII.

pirate1802
11-24-2012, 06:51 PM
For some reason ubisofts writers failed to see all of these plot holes and did not realize how extraordinarily thin the comparison really is.

Yet you have scores of people who question Desmond's decision everyday. Not such an easy decision for them is it?

pirate1802
11-24-2012, 06:51 PM
They wouldn't and it would only serve to slow both sides down. William explained that in quite a lot of detail in ACIII.

Aaww c'mon.. You're no fun. *grumpy face*

Shingram
11-24-2012, 06:52 PM
Its quite a complex situation it seems as though the Assassins and Templars are pawns for a greater Cause !!, and the Mayan Callender actualy ends december 2012 from which it predicted
the return of an ancient diety or being, i am speculating that being could be Juno ?.

If you listen to Minerve when she is talking to desmond she says that due to the Assassins and Templars squabling for Centuries has cleared the way for a greater threat , would be very unfortunate for the Assassins as they have put man kind in a greater danger purely because the Assassins beat the Templars to the grand Temple but through bad judgement and desperation
to fufill their duty it has lead to the enslavement of mankind and our freedom completely banished which is what the templars clearly wanted - order , structure , purpose and direction only the fact
that Juno now holds the power to direct mankind to a new dawn and the templars dreams have been fufilled through the Assassins ignorance .

Makes sense right.

That comment by Minerva was moronic she was apparently seeing the future all along and was clearly WELL AWARE of the A v T thing throughout history and in fact encourages you to fight the templars. now all of a sudden she reprimands you for fighting them? I think they were going for a "Humanity fighting= bad" moment but the rest of their storyline contradicts their method of delivering this point. When she said that I was like "Hey, moron you knew you were speaking to Ezio CENTURIES ago you could have EASILY told him directly to stop the fighting (he was a prime candidate to tell this to as he was clearly tentative and fed up with the assassins methods at several points even going so far as to spare Borgia) you could have had Ezio do a HELLUVA LOT moreand you had him do next to nothing you dingbat. "

Shingram
11-24-2012, 06:57 PM
Yet you have scores of people who question Desmond's decision everyday. Not such an easy decision for them is it?

Huh I said the comparison between the basic Assassin vs templar struggle is very thin when contrasted to Desmonds ultimate decision. Your response to what you quoted makes no sense.

I dunno bout other people but give me two choices. Murder everyone on Earth or give us a fighting chance in which we might be murdere/enslaved. How could you not take the fighting chance? Not to mention history has proven that this fighting chance is a VERY GOOD fighting chance.

Perhaps the debate should be what is the ultimate choice? To me it's very clear that releasing Juno does not automatically enslave and end the world. Minerva says it will and Juno arrogantly seems to think it will but facts and history flat out contradict this.

Minerva's choice flat out = killing the world which is worse than unlikely POTENTIAL enslavement. It's a question of risk and the risk for enslavement is not very high based on the series canon

pirate1802
11-24-2012, 08:12 PM
Huh I said the comparison between the basic Assassin vs templar struggle is very thin when contrasted to Desmonds ultimate decision. Your response to what you quoted makes no sense.

I dunno bout other people but give me two choices. Murder everyone on Earth or give us a fighting chance in which we might be murdere/enslaved. How could you not take the fighting chance? Not to mention history has proven that this fighting chance is a VERY GOOD fighting chance.

Perhaps the debate should be what is the ultimate choice? To me it's very clear that releasing Juno does not automatically enslave and end the world. Minerva says it will and Juno arrogantly seems to think it will but facts and history flat out contradict this.

Minerva's choice flat out = killing the world which is worse than unlikely POTENTIAL enslavement. It's a question of risk and the risk for enslavement is not very high based on the series canon

That is what I said, it is a no-decision really. Yet you have people who say Desmond's choice makes no sense.

ACfan443
11-24-2012, 08:33 PM
I wish I could say the ending got me excited for the next AC, but sadly it didn't, and I don't really care about the modern day plot anymore.
Out of the two choices Desmond had, I do think he made the right one, even though ultimately both outcomes were contradictory to assassin's beliefs.

Umbra_Blade
11-24-2012, 08:57 PM
I reckon the next game will be you trying to find artefacts throughout history that can cause Juno to be locked back into the temple again, or can finish her off. As when she walked off at the very end of the game, during the credits, she was still in a holographic form. Which leads me to believe she isn't 'truly' back, she has just had her boundaries blown wide open. But she is still connected to the grand temple, where her essence, or 'soul' if you will, is kept, giving her powers. If you were to sever that tie, or reinstated her boundaries some how, she would no longer be a threat.

That's what I think a possible path for AC4 will be.

As for the Assassins and Templars... I don't think they will form a proper coalition, but rather be neck-and-neck trying to get rid of Juno, and each will get information they don't have, by stealing it from the other. So they work together by competing if that makes sense... like William said in AC3 "We are more productive, when at war with each other". Both parties want Juno out of the equation as she flies right in the face of what both groups want to achieve. Both want peace for humanity, Juno wants war and revenge for herself.

Shingram
11-26-2012, 02:59 AM
That is what I said, it is a no-decision really. Yet you have people who say Desmond's choice makes no sense.

The way you wrote it looked like you were saying something else so I was like huh. I get what you wrote now.

Pydro_Assassin
11-26-2012, 03:37 PM
Huh I said the comparison between the basic Assassin vs templar struggle is very thin when contrasted to Desmonds ultimate decision. Your response to what you quoted makes no sense.

I dunno bout other people but give me two choices. Murder everyone on Earth or give us a fighting chance in which we might be murdere/enslaved. How could you not take the fighting chance? Not to mention history has proven that this fighting chance is a VERY GOOD fighting chance.

Perhaps the debate should be what is the ultimate choice? To me it's very clear that releasing Juno does not automatically enslave and end the world. Minerva says it will and Juno arrogantly seems to think it will but facts and history flat out contradict this.

Minerva's choice flat out = killing the world which is worse than unlikely POTENTIAL enslavement. It's a question of risk and the risk for enslavement is not very high based on the series canon

WAIT A MINUTE, enslavement that has a good fighting chance? So basically a revolution/riot upon humanity against Juno? All those "Ignite the revolution" trailers all make sense now...

pirate1802
11-26-2012, 06:38 PM
I wonder how Juno's reign affect the religions, in AC universe. As/if they realize their gods are not what they thought. Would new religions form around Juno?