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View Full Version : An idea for BOB... Banter... Talk Enroute to Target.



SeaFireLIV
03-31-2004, 04:38 AM
As we all know, a flight to an enemy target can be somewhat boring. There you are flying along, with only your leader telling you the standard Alt and course. One of my many thoughts during this time is how much more interesting it would be to have the pilots sometimes just talk to eachother? Too complex? Whole long speech routines would be needed?

Not necessarily...

Each pilot could be assigned a speech file (as with FB), but each speech file would have sub files, say:

1 A positive speech.
2.A negative speech.
3.An `OPINION` speech.
4. A `Question` speech.

Then you`d have a `RESPONSE` speech.

a: Positive response (yes).
b: Negative response (no).
c: Negative/ Positive (can be either of a or b)
d: Open response (whatever- but never specific)

So, you`re flying along the way point. One of your Wingman suddenly speaks:

Wingman A: "We`re gonna give those jerries/Tommies a good kickin` today, eh?"

This would be a POSITIVE STATEMENT. Now the program finds one wingman, it could be any one of Wingman A, B, C, or D, whatever and picks a POSITIVE RESPONSE:

Wingman B: "I`m itching to fill the enemy with lead!"

Or it could be a simple ,"Yes/ Ja."

Or:

Wingman A: " My engine`s been on the blink lately..." An OPINION speech.
or

" MY girlfriend lives just down there." Another OPINION speech.

Which would receive an OPEN RESPONSE like:

Wingman B: "Are you sure?" or
Wingman B: "Oh yea?"

Or even no response at all, perhaps. In fact this could also receive a `Positive/ Negative` response from the original speaker, if possible.

The point is the speech would be quite random, but simply programmed that noone responded in a way that didn`t make sense. Do it right and you could get a pretty believable bit of banter going on between your small team of Spitfires or BF109s BEFORE you get into a fight. Also, the banter being RANDOM would actually get different responses each time, yes, or no or nothing. You could even have `pre-fight` talk and `post-fight` talk, but it would probably be getting too complex.

The important thing would be to have a good variety of SPEECHS to avoid too much repetition So keep `em short and sweet.

Also an OVERRIDE COMMAND would be needed so that you as Leader or the AI Leader could choose to say, "RADIO SILENCE" or "CAN THE TALK" whenever necessary.

You could even give the player a `Y` or `N` or `Whatever` response key if an AI wingman actually asked YOU a question! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Implement this and it would be another FIRST to help put BOB at the top. It`s not just FMs, it`s not just accuracy, but the little touches that made the difference in IL2/FB: The Sirens. The Men running from vehicles...

Need an example? Check out the original (PC) Half Life. Get 2 or more guys with you and they`d start talking to each other using this very same process. It was very clever cos it sounded like they were communicating when in fact they weren`t.

Well, just an idea.... If mentioned before, I didn`t know.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Old1.jpg

It`s not about the Machine...
(aka: You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!)

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Wed March 31 2004 at 03:48 AM.]

SeaFireLIV
03-31-2004, 04:38 AM
As we all know, a flight to an enemy target can be somewhat boring. There you are flying along, with only your leader telling you the standard Alt and course. One of my many thoughts during this time is how much more interesting it would be to have the pilots sometimes just talk to eachother? Too complex? Whole long speech routines would be needed?

Not necessarily...

Each pilot could be assigned a speech file (as with FB), but each speech file would have sub files, say:

1 A positive speech.
2.A negative speech.
3.An `OPINION` speech.
4. A `Question` speech.

Then you`d have a `RESPONSE` speech.

a: Positive response (yes).
b: Negative response (no).
c: Negative/ Positive (can be either of a or b)
d: Open response (whatever- but never specific)

So, you`re flying along the way point. One of your Wingman suddenly speaks:

Wingman A: "We`re gonna give those jerries/Tommies a good kickin` today, eh?"

This would be a POSITIVE STATEMENT. Now the program finds one wingman, it could be any one of Wingman A, B, C, or D, whatever and picks a POSITIVE RESPONSE:

Wingman B: "I`m itching to fill the enemy with lead!"

Or it could be a simple ,"Yes/ Ja."

Or:

Wingman A: " My engine`s been on the blink lately..." An OPINION speech.
or

" MY girlfriend lives just down there." Another OPINION speech.

Which would receive an OPEN RESPONSE like:

Wingman B: "Are you sure?" or
Wingman B: "Oh yea?"

Or even no response at all, perhaps. In fact this could also receive a `Positive/ Negative` response from the original speaker, if possible.

The point is the speech would be quite random, but simply programmed that noone responded in a way that didn`t make sense. Do it right and you could get a pretty believable bit of banter going on between your small team of Spitfires or BF109s BEFORE you get into a fight. Also, the banter being RANDOM would actually get different responses each time, yes, or no or nothing. You could even have `pre-fight` talk and `post-fight` talk, but it would probably be getting too complex.

The important thing would be to have a good variety of SPEECHS to avoid too much repetition So keep `em short and sweet.

Also an OVERRIDE COMMAND would be needed so that you as Leader or the AI Leader could choose to say, "RADIO SILENCE" or "CAN THE TALK" whenever necessary.

You could even give the player a `Y` or `N` or `Whatever` response key if an AI wingman actually asked YOU a question! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Implement this and it would be another FIRST to help put BOB at the top. It`s not just FMs, it`s not just accuracy, but the little touches that made the difference in IL2/FB: The Sirens. The Men running from vehicles...

Need an example? Check out the original (PC) Half Life. Get 2 or more guys with you and they`d start talking to each other using this very same process. It was very clever cos it sounded like they were communicating when in fact they weren`t.

Well, just an idea.... If mentioned before, I didn`t know.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Old1.jpg

It`s not about the Machine...
(aka: You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!)

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Wed March 31 2004 at 03:48 AM.]

clint-ruin
03-31-2004, 04:47 AM
Good idea.

I'd still love to see something like Freespace's SEXP system in there too, while we're at it. Even just for .wav cues..

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Fehler
03-31-2004, 05:15 AM
Or a flight leader telling you to stay the hell off the air waves and use radio discipline as that would be the normal case for most radio traffic...

Great stuff for Hollywood, but not practically accepted in real life I believe.

Now omber crews BS'ing on the intercom, yeah, I can see that. But remember, radio detection was considered more important than radar especially early on in the war. Considering the channel is only a few miles wide, I suspect that "Jerry" was always listening so they could scramble interceptor flights.

The idea is nice, and would give you an audio feeling of being there, but sometimes atmosphere comes from imagination.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

SeaFireLIV
03-31-2004, 05:23 AM
Well, it`s an idea. I personally don`t know how much fighter crews actually talked, but there must have been some, especially while away from the target area. What was the banter like with fighter crews in WWII? Did they all keep rigidly silent from take off to target except for waypoint calls?

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Old1.jpg

It`s not about the Machine...
(aka: You CAN teach an old dog new tricks!)

Extreme_One
03-31-2004, 05:43 AM
Great idea!

S! Simon
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''
Download the USAAF & RAF campaign folders here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-10.html).

Download "North and South" including the Japanese speech-pack here (http://www.netwings.org/library/Forgotten_Battles/Missions/index-12.html). *NEW*

http://server6.uploadit.org/files/simplysimon-raf_sig.jpg

AWL_Spinner
03-31-2004, 05:50 AM
There was a fair bit of "talk" during Dark Blue World. Mind you, there was also a reprimand for chit-chat over the assigned frequency.

Anyways, I'm all for a lot of attention being provided to rich and variable soundpacks and proper voice actors.

Cheers, Spinner

http://www.alliedwingedlegion.com/members/signatures/spinner_sig.jpg

porcupine1
03-31-2004, 05:59 AM
from what i understand from ex ww2 pilots, is that it was silent! and very lonely, sitting in formation waiting for the radio to burst out with things like "BANDITS 1:00 HIGH" one man i knew said they used to use hand signals, and of course a few were on the lowbrow side, when flying along side eachother.
they also used to rock thier wings and wave to each other when they spotted an enemy they wanted to pounce on, without breaking radio silence. they even used to switch through the different channels waiting to catch the enemy breaking radio silence.
I think some pilot animation would be a wonderfull addition hand signals or a thumbs up. when forming up on a another plane, or even a pilot who is looking around adjusting things in the cockpit. we have this alredy to some extent but it could be carried further, this would add a whole new element of emersion for me.

Philipscdrw
03-31-2004, 08:28 AM
Wow, you can fly close enough to your wingmen to actually see them give a thumbs up? You are much more skilled than me!

I was under the impression that radios weren't standard equipment everywhere, and that radio silence was generally observed. I like the idea though.

PhilipsCDRW

"England, on effect is insular. She is maritime. She is linked through her trade, her markets, her supply lines to the most distant countries ... She has, in all her doings, very marked and very original habits and traditions. In short England's nature, England's structure, England's very situation differs profoundly from those of the Continentals."
President de Gaulle, vetoing against British entry to the EEC in 1963.

SeaFireLIV
03-31-2004, 08:36 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by porcupine1:

they also used to rock thier wings and wave to each other when they spotted an enemy they wanted to pounce on, without breaking radio silence. they even used to switch through the different channels waiting to catch the enemy breaking radio silence.
I think some pilot animation would be a wonderfull addition hand signals or a thumbs up. QUOTE]

Well, your lead waggling his wings to indicate an enemy without breaking radio silence and `thumbs up` would indeed be great. Some of that sounds simple enough to even go into FB!

SeaFireLIV
03-31-2004, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
Good idea.

I'd still love to see something like Freespace's SEXP system in there too, while we're at it. Even just for .wav cues..

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant to ask, what is the SEXP system?

clint-ruin
03-31-2004, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:

I meant to ask, what is the SEXP system?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Segmented expressions.

Here's the most-used Freespace 2 SEXP, for example:

when
has-time-elapsed
1
beam-free-all
ship name
beam-free
another ship name
turret02
turret07


It's basically a big bunch of checks with if/then/and/or functions assignable to just about everything. Or you can use it to type text on screen or play a video or .wav file. Whatever floats your boat :&gt;

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

Chuck_Older
03-31-2004, 10:30 AM
A system in which a human wingman can alert his AI section leader to bandits is going to be a must. I really want this feature implemented in FB, but so far, no dice.



I can't beleive that no, "Sorry, old man, can't understand your banter" comments have been made. I thought there were a lot of Python fans here...

*****************************
Wave bub-bub-bub-bye to the boss, it's your profit, it's his loss~ Clash

Monty_Thrud
03-31-2004, 11:40 AM
I would like to hear my own pilots voice when giving a command, seems odd to just hear their replies when you havent heard your own.
But i just love these commands havent used them that much before but last night i was flying Hurricane IIbs escourting bombers.. Blenheims & Pe8s in a Lancaster skin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif , i got hit badly and called for immediate assitance, it was my last straw didnt think id get any response...hehe...well i certainly did, they all descended on the bogeys chasing me(i was so proud of them) even the Blenheims were chasing off the enemy BF109s & BF110s ...god i love this sim http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.uploadit.org/bsamania/Huzzy4-sig.jpg
"#2 Attack that ship".."#1..with what?".."#2 your ordnance DAMMIT!".."#1 my ordnance is in Olegs office, same place yours is".."#2 we'd better learn German then"

PzKpfw
03-31-2004, 12:02 PM
Actualy its a great Idea, as to the Historacity of it Stanford Tuck made moreb then a few comments about the British side of it and radio useage, while Galland basicly stated LW pilots had to talk in flight period.

German reports made much mention of US pilots lax overuse of Radio for idle chatter etc, so while some might state this was a 'holywood' thing etc, we see it's realy not far from the truth historicly.


Regards, John Waters

---------
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

leadbaloon
03-31-2004, 05:15 PM
Sounds like a good idea to me too, I like the idea of reprimands being added at random too.

Funnily enough I was thinking about something similar today, which could address some of that "boredom" on flights out to target; which is to have the ground control guiding you to the enemy targets. So you just scramble and are then given directions, expected enemy numbers, altitude, co-ordinates for friendly squadrons that you're expected to meet up with, etc... from ground control, right up until that final "Tally Ho" when your squadron spots the enemy.

This may have come up before, and probably has, but I thought I'd mention it just in case it hasn't.

And also PLEASE can either the flight leader or the ground control tell us what speed we're meant to be travelling at? By the time I've got it figured out and am sitting nicely in formation the squadron is usually at the target.

SeaFireLIV
03-31-2004, 06:07 PM
Good stuff, chaps. Let`s hope all these things come to pass!

porcupine1
03-31-2004, 07:15 PM
I call that boredom "suspence" or my personal "IM GUNNA DIE, IM GUNNA DIE, IM GUNNA DIE" time! LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Gen_Strike
04-06-2004, 09:59 PM
Dunno if the radio chat is needed, but bomber crew talking is a must, currently all the bombers have the feeling of being completely automated, no crew (except the rear gunner in the il2, not exactly a conversationalist though.)
More crew animations is always good, we need more of that and more of the slumped gunners like on the heinkel, although maybe the models shouldnt appear when the gunner bails out!

BlitzPig_DDT
04-07-2004, 07:11 AM
Did somebody say something about banter?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


(Scene: a wartime RAF station)

Jones: Morning, Squadron Leader.

Idle: What-ho, Squiffy.

Jones: How was it?

Idle: Top-hole. Bally Jerry, pranged his kite right in the how's-your-father;
hairy blighter, dicky-birded, feathered back on his sammy, took a waspy,
flipped over on his Betty Harpers and caught his can in the Bertie.

Jones: Er, I'm afraid I don't quite follow you, Squadron Leader.

Idle: It's perfectly ordinary banter, Squiffy. Bally Jerry, pranged his kite
right in the how's-your-father; hairy blighter, dicky-birded, feathered
back on his sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harpers and
caught his can in the Bertie.

Jones: No, I'm just not understanding banter at all well today. Give us it
slower.

Idle: Banter's not the same if you say it slower, Squiffy.

Jones: Hold on then -- Wingco! -- just bend an ear to the Squadron Leader's
banter for a sec, would you?

Chapman: Can do.

Jones: Jolly good. Fire away.

Idle: Bally Jerry... (he goes through it all again)

Chapman: No, I don't understand that banter at all.

Idle: Something up with my banter, chaps?


GRAMS: AIR RAID SIRENS
(Enter Palin, out of breath)


Palin: Bunch of monkeys on the ceiling, sir! Grab your egg-and-fours and
let's get the bacon delivered!

Chapman (to Idle): Do *you* understand that?

Idle: No -- I didn't get a word of it.

Chapman: Sorry, old man, we don't understand your banter.

Palin: You know -- bally tenpenny ones dropping in the custard!

(no reaction)

Palin: Um -- Charlie choppers chucking a handful!

Chapman: No no -- sorry.

Jones: Say it slower, old chap.

Palin: Slower *banter*, sir?

Chapman: Ra-ther.

Palin: Um -- sausage squad up the blue end?

Idle: No, still don't get it.

Palin: Um -- cabbage crates coming over the briny?

The others: No, no.


(Film of air-raid)


Idle (voice-over): But by then it was too late. The first cabbage crates hit
London on July the 7th. That was just the beginning.


(Chapman seen sitting at desk, on telephone)


Chapman: Five shillings a dozen? That's ordinary cabbages, is it? And what
about the bombs?... Good Lord, they _are_ expensive.



Hee! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

==================================
The Blitz Pigs - Not a squad, a Movement!

Come and spam on our front porch.

http://www.blitzpigs.com

SeaFireLIV
04-07-2004, 08:07 PM
LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/spitfpetite.jpg