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View Full Version : [spoilers] Connor has done to AC3 what JarJar did to Star Wars



Relicsbane
11-14-2012, 04:23 AM
Discuss

BATISTABUS
11-14-2012, 04:23 AM
Please leave and never return.

Relicsbane
11-14-2012, 04:35 AM
(SPOILERS POSSIBLY) I know I'm not the only one that doesn't care for the main character in the game. He's an extremely whiny brat that doesn't really seem to have any depth what-so-ever for me. He doesn't really have a 'cause' that I can identify with at all. He fights simply for the sake of fighting. What was his goal? He yells at his mentor endlessly after demanding that the man train him. He's ungrateful for all he's given. What kind of hero is he supposed to represent?

BATISTABUS
11-14-2012, 04:59 AM
I have yet to read a SINGLE legitimate criticism about why Connor is a bad character.


He's an extremely whiny brat that doesn't really seem to have any depth what-so-ever for me.
Saying he doesn't have any depth is a non-statement. It doesn't actually mean anything unless you provide examples. He whines, but he is frustrated and angry with what's going on around him. He is a pretty flawed character, but I will get more into that later.


He doesn't really have a 'cause' that I can identify with at all. He fights simply for the sake of fighting. What was his goal?

If you honestly mean what you wrote here, you didn't play the game or didn't pay attention at all. I'm sorry that you can't identify with being a minority who's entire culture and lifestyle is being destroyed more every day. His mother died burning alive in front of him. When he decides to be a Native American, he has to live with the fact that he is genetically 50% the enemy. When he attempts to fit in with Europeans, he can't escape the generalizations that go along with looking Native American. When he's an Assassin, he has to live with his father being the head of the Templars. The last one aside, these are all real problems that real people went through in this time period. He is fighting for the subsistence of his people, and even though it might be a futile fight with strong roots in revenge, those were the choices he made. I'm sorry if you cannot identify with that...did you identify with Ezio or Altair?


He yells at his mentor endlessly after demanding that the man train him. He's ungrateful for all he's given. What kind of hero is he supposed to represent?

He's an arrogant young man. He is idealistic and has a limited perspective. He's not un-grateful, he's just unwise. Again, these are natural traits for someone of his ability and circumstance. Connor doesn't internally believe in his ideals 100%, but he tries to make his actions appear as if he does. Hopefully, we'll get another game to see him mature more.

What kind of hero is he supposed to represent? A real hero; an imperfect human with flaws who is trying to do right by his people and find his place in the world. Just because he's not a suave James Bond type like Ezio, it doesn't mean that he's not heroic. I don't see how Connor being unconventional is a bad thing.

Turul.
11-14-2012, 05:00 AM
Please leave and never return.

seriously.

STOP MAKING THREADS WITHOUT SUPPORTING YOUR ARGUMENTS CHILDREN.

NO ONE HERE TAKES YOU SERIOUSLY

kudos17
11-14-2012, 05:02 AM
Okay, c'mon, he's REALLY not that bad at all. Even if you don't like him, he definitely didn't kill the game. You're overreacting.

Also, this thread didn't need to be made. It's bad, you're bad, I'm bad, this topic is bad and you should feel bad.

StarzSuicide
11-14-2012, 05:02 AM
You do to smart people as Wayne Brady does for us black people.

Sickull
11-14-2012, 05:20 AM
Wayne Brady has done pretty well for himself, I don't see where this is going...I'm black.

Relicsbane
11-14-2012, 05:44 AM
If you honestly mean what you wrote here, you didn't play the game or didn't pay attention at all. I'm sorry that you can't identify with being a minority who's entire culture and lifestyle is being destroyed more every day. His mother died burning alive in front of him. When he decides to be a Native American, he has to live with the fact that he is genetically 50% the enemy. When he attempts to fit in with Europeans, he can't escape the generalizations that go along with looking Native American. When he's an Assassin, he has to live with his father being the head of the Templars. The last one aside, these are all real problems that real people went through in this time period. He is fighting for the subsistence of his people, and even though it might be a futile fight with strong roots in revenge, those were the choices he made.

He's an arrogant young man. He is idealistic and has a limited perspective. He's not un-grateful, he's just unwise. Again, these are natural traits for someone of his ability and circumstance. Connor doesn't internally believe in his ideals 100%, but he tries to make his actions appear as if he does. Hopefully, we'll get another game to see him mature more.
What kind of hero is he supposed to represent? A real hero; an imperfect human with flaws who is trying to do right by his people and find his place in the world. Just because he's not a suave James Bond type like Ezio, it doesn't mean that he's not heroic. I don't see how Connor being unconventional is a bad thing.

I did play the game and I did pay attention. I simply do not in any way feel that he was fighting for any cause. Sure he was attempting to help his people keep their land. By doing what exactly? How does starting the Boston Tea Party help him save his land and people? How does him commandeering a ship and sailing to Cuba and back help his people? Hell, how did he magically become an expert at sailing naval frigates in the first place? While I totally enjoyed the game and loved the naval battles along with many of the other missions. I still can't wrap my head around how or WHY they make him captain of the ship. It just makes no sense at all. Real people back in that time did not deal with inciting revolution. Real people back in that time did not say "Hey, there's a sunken ship, I'm gonna rebuild that and become king of the high seas". So please, while they may have tried to put forth a story of the half-bred anger within him, don't feed me a line that he's a real feeling character that would have had to deal with those problems back then.
Yes there were (and still are) many angry half-bred arrogant people out there who just hate the world, that doesn't make them a fitting hero.

I just don't feel like he fits into the feel of AC. The story to me has always been the assassins fighting against the templars and a corrupt church. There was a bloodline being followed. Now we get a half-bred kid who becomes an assassin because he smoked some peyote, tripped out and turned into a bird. He goes on to fight 'templars' who are little more than drunkards throughout the game. Yea, it's a big stretch to say that it fits well within the storyline. sorry, that's just how I feel. Which is what I originally meant in a not so great way of putting it with the JarJar thing. It just doesn't 'fit' with me how this character comes into play. Not only that, but wasn't Desmond a direct descendant to both Ezio and Altaire? I thought that's why he was chosen to go into their memories. Perhaps my memory isn't serving me correctly though. I'm fairly certain that Connor isn't a direct Ancestor of his. soooo.... call me confused...

Yet, even if I'm wrong on the descendant part, I still don't have to like the idea of an angry kid becoming a full-fledged assassin of the order because he got high and had a vision to go yell at Achilles.

BATISTABUS
11-14-2012, 06:43 AM
By doing what exactly? How does starting the Boston Tea Party help him save his land and people?

He believed that supporting the Colonists would be a better investment for his people than supporting the British, although he was slightly manipulated by certain Founding Fathers from time to time. Participating in events like the Boston Tea Party and the Battle of Bunker Hill aided the Colonists in their cause to stir up and win a revolution. He liked the ideas that the Colonists spoke about; freedom, liberty, and justice. We know that this doesn't work out for Native Americans, but this is something he can deal with more in another game.


I still can't wrap my head around how or WHY they make him captain of the ship. It just makes no sense at all. Real people back in that time did not deal with inciting revolution. Real people back in that time did not say "Hey, there's a sunken ship, I'm gonna rebuild that and become king of the high seas". So please, while they may have tried to put forth a story of the half-bred anger within him, don't feed me a line that he's a real feeling character that would have had to deal with those problems back then.

They clearly explain the naval portion. Besides what the game offers, Assassins are meant to be "Renaissance" men; their skills encompass many fields of expertise. These fields include art, literature, history, science, and of course, battle. Since naval battles are an important section of warfare during the time, it makes sense for an Assassin, the ultimate warrior, to be a respectable captain.

Obviously Connor wasn't an ordinary person, or else why would he be the main character of a videogame? He can still be flawed, having to deal with problems of the era while still being extraordinary at the same time. Are you really complaining about this? Main characters do things that ordinary people don't do...this is a staple of just about every single story.


I just don't feel like he fits into the feel of AC. The story to me has always been the assassins fighting against the templars and a corrupt church. There was a bloodline being followed. Now we get a half-bred kid who becomes an assassin because he smoked some peyote, tripped out and turned into a bird. He goes on to fight 'templars' who are little more than drunkards throughout the game.

The Church was an institution manipulated by the Templars; since its influence isn't as strong during this period, it seems obvious that the Templars wouldn't be as involved with it (at least in Colonial America).

He had more traditional Assassin training than Ezio did. The peyote comment is an offensive steriotype that doesn't apply to the Mohawk or any other Iriquois nations. The only "drunkard" was Thomas Hickey...and if you've played any other AC game, you'd know he wasn't the only incompetent Templar we've ever had to assassinate.


Not only that, but wasn't Desmond a direct descendant to both Ezio and Altaire? I thought that's why he was chosen to go into their memories. Perhaps my memory isn't serving me correctly though. I'm fairly certain that Connor isn't a direct Ancestor of his. soooo.... call me confused...

Desmond has to be a direct descendant of Connor, or else he wouldn't be able to relive his memories.

NekoKera
11-14-2012, 07:10 AM
SPOILERS:
I can understand why some people have issues with Connor in the fact that he seems as stale as a 2 week old bread, but that is what I find so fascinating about the character. I have this sense that there is this internal struggle within him which is apparent after the conclusion of the game, especially in the epilogue when he realizes that all the effort he had fought for was indeed for freedom, but only freedom for the "white man" and not his people nor Achilles, which had lost hope for so long only to find it reinvigorated by Connor too late in his life, creating a conflict between the two characters that may seem unimportant and almost unnecessary at face value, but if you look more into the database entries and read in-between the lines by examining key details you can uncover even deeper meanings between the two characters. Not going to spend too much time on Achilles since the beef is mostly with Connor. For Achilles, Connor is just a nasty reminder of his life before, a life that involved the loss of his wife and son (Connor Davenport). As they grow closer (even through their conflict) a sort of nontraditional legacy forms between the two in a father and son kind of way which replaces the void of Haythem in Connor's (the Assassin) life. For Connor, he seems to hint that there is this deeper pain within him but he often does not show it by his actions. In certain scenes he rants on to Charles, Washington, and Haythem about his people, his mother, and the path he was cast upon, but it doesn't pan out anywhere from there other than getting his discomfort on the table, and it does feel as though this could have been more fleshed out, which would have offered a big payout to those invested. (UBER SPOILERS): There is also the scene where Connor is forced to kill his best friend and father which he constantly feels both attracted (in a friendship way) and repelled (in a for the better good / enemy way). Again tons of conflict that Connor seems to dust off in his final conversation assassination scene without revealing the impact of killing someone who was a childhood friend or someone that he believed could be saved from the error of their ways (that someone also happening to be his "father" [*insert* Luke and Vader moment *insert*] ) which he hints can be saved to Achilles if not, then at least the Assassin's and Templar's could play nice long enough to join forces for a common good, which also does not pan out.

Again, all this underlying conflict and emotion within the character make him very interesting, certainly not Jar Jar Binks status, but it feels as though Connor is sometimes trying to be that "macho man" and not show conflict, aside from the occasional outburst to Washington, Charles, Haythem, and Achilles. This gives in my mind Connor a status of almost being in a transitional childhood-to-adult stage where he is trying to be as grown-up as he possibly can but still holds onto some childhood behaviors, likely due to his outsider and outcast-ness that he displays when first arriving to Boston. It is through the course of the story that Connor in a way grows up to realize that he cannot be the Superman or the Ezio Auditore of the American Colonies, essentially he is a defeated character by the end of the game that has lost everything and fought for a cause that was not his own, which in a way can be similar to both Altair and Ezio. Altair fights because he is trained to, but comes to realize through experience that what he fights for may not be the proper path (obviously the realization that his master had deceived him Jade Empire style.) and Ezio comes to realize that he was set upon a path that at first started as avenging his family but outright set him down a path of eliminating the Templars across Renaissance Italy. Connor is not the mythically awe-inspiring Altair or the charismatic Ezio, but he creates a persona all his own with a drive to do what is right (ironic that he is as Assassin -- someone that kills people, yet he sets out for justice).

I feel that Connor was an amazing character that could have been a bit more expanded in his actions and shown to emotionally and mentally struggle with the hardships he faces to draw more depth and interest in the character. Instead, the value in Connor is in what he doesn't do and doesn't say in comparison to what he actually does. I wouldn't consider him a joke like Jar Jar, unless Jar Jar appears in Episode VII with hidden blades and sets out on a course of justice for Luke killing his best buddy Little Annie.


Please leave and never return.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWweqP_ZWbg
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWweqP_ZWbg)

scooper121s
11-14-2012, 07:15 AM
I like jarjar, and connor STOP TRYING TO FORCE YOUR OPINIONS ON OTHERS!!!

rego00123
11-14-2012, 07:27 AM
i agree he should have banged more chicks and made more wisecracks for the teenagers to identify with.

..obviously joking.

he was fine.

scooper121s
11-14-2012, 07:28 AM
i agree he should have banged more chicks and made more wisecracks for the teenagers to identify with.

..obviously joking.

he was fine to me.
Connor, or jarjar

rego00123
11-14-2012, 07:32 AM
lol conor.

zhengyingli
11-14-2012, 07:33 AM
lol conor.

You could've joked and said Jar Jar.

rego00123
11-14-2012, 07:34 AM
i was going to, but the idea of jarjar banging chicks didn't sit well in my head

scooper121s
11-14-2012, 07:34 AM
lol conor.
I myself are a teen, and i most certainly would not want connor to act like that, ezio was walking a fine line as it is
(Relizesd what just wrote and hides from ezio fans)

zhengyingli
11-14-2012, 07:54 AM
i was going to, but the idea of jarjar banging chicks didn't sit well in my head

Haha. I forgive you.