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Scragbat
05-12-2004, 04:42 AM
Oleg,
This may be about aesthetics and probably won't bother many people (who fly cockpit on) but it nags at me a little.
Here is a screenie of me in a shot-up BF109 with bullet holes and an oil smeared canopy.

http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/screenies/pit.jpg

...and here is the same aircraft from an external view...

http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/screenies/ext.jpg

Would there also be oil streaking behind the prop or on the hood (if that's what you call it!)? It would be really nice to see the same damage on an external view Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards
Scrag

PS Hope your little one is not keeping you from your sleep too much, congratulations!

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Scragbat's Forgotten Battles Virtual Movies (http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com)

[This message was edited by Scragbat on Thu May 13 2004 at 12:42 PM.]

Scragbat
05-12-2004, 04:42 AM
Oleg,
This may be about aesthetics and probably won't bother many people (who fly cockpit on) but it nags at me a little.
Here is a screenie of me in a shot-up BF109 with bullet holes and an oil smeared canopy.

http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/screenies/pit.jpg

...and here is the same aircraft from an external view...

http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/screenies/ext.jpg

Would there also be oil streaking behind the prop or on the hood (if that's what you call it!)? It would be really nice to see the same damage on an external view Oleg http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Regards
Scrag

PS Hope your little one is not keeping you from your sleep too much, congratulations!

http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com/FB/squigsig.gif
Scragbat's Forgotten Battles Virtual Movies (http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com)

[This message was edited by Scragbat on Thu May 13 2004 at 12:42 PM.]

VW-IceFire
05-12-2004, 06:40 AM
I see the oil coming out from the bottom there...just a limitation of how things work probably.

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Scragbat
05-12-2004, 07:05 AM
Oil and fuel trailing behind the aircraft is nice. Additionally seeing oil on the canopy externally would be nice too.

As it stands the outside view of the canopy is 'car-wash' clean http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

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Fafnir_6
05-12-2004, 12:21 PM
Given the plethora of Bf109 variants (all of which would require this change), I think the amount of work would prohibit Oleg & Co. from ever fixing a pan-Bf109 problem like this.

Ditto for the people asking (rightly) for a newer, better Bf109 cockpit. Not happening.

Cheers and condolences,

Fafnir_6

WWMaxGunz
05-12-2004, 12:46 PM
There would have to be extra sets of textures for all the different stages or states of smears. Should there be smears on the glass for one thing and on the side for another, that would make 4 extra textures just for the final state and then if the smears are always to be the same. Random smears or progressions of smears and you multiply the needed textures. That means a LOT of extra memory taken just to run the sim at all, not to mention the time to make those accurately for every plane. Different planes, different sources for smears. they would also have to be tied to every DM.

For a new sim with a different way of showing the planes and better detail levels I think that would be a good feature. Maybe BoB but only if it doesn't take something better away. Too much eye candy and there is only enough room and power left for arcade workings underneath.


Neal

Snuffy_Hadden
05-12-2004, 04:10 PM
Gee ... I wonder now how advanced B-17II was in all of this.

All the great control of the bombers, crew interaction as well as management, proper sop for take off and landing, a full map of the field of engagement, and appropriately detailed fighters that oddly enough, showed smeared oil soot and etc on the outside of the fighters if the interior views showed it as well.

Hmmm.

RK_HH-Mainframe
05-12-2004, 04:52 PM
http://img32.photobucket.com/albums/v96/mainframe-97th/STORCHDEAD.jpg

I jumped into my 109 and chased down a Fi-156..
And look what hapens after 1 30mm hit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

~s~
Main

P.S. Also happened on a Me-323 this night when i was trying more planes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

[This message was edited by Mainframe-97th on Wed May 12 2004 at 04:00 PM.]

WWMaxGunz
05-12-2004, 05:43 PM
Snuffy, what is easy or hard depends on how the sim was set up from the start. Some things from FB do not happen in B-17II do they? It is always tradeoffs in design and possibilities against the system and hardware they run on.

I know of no sim that has it all. I can only begin to judge on overall features and bugs. EAW used to be my #1 overall while MA had the better FM and views. B-17II I have not had sufficient time in good health to make any judgements about but from what I have seen it is very, very good and more immersive than most as long as I stay in the bomber role. I wanted the MP so bad because I wanted to be escort for someone we both know.


Neal

Snuffy_Hadden
05-12-2004, 08:30 PM
Not a problem Neal I understand completely. I think many many wanted the MP in B-17II and because of that broken promise, things fared badly for the sim after it's release.

You are right on the immersion factor though. Best game to day I have played with as much immersion.

:salute:

Scragbat
05-13-2004, 12:32 PM
Would it really be this hard and require all these extra texture sets?
I'm not sure about there needing to be smear progression. If you're in cockpit view and get hit the oil doesn't start spreading up the canopy and slowly start to cover it. It just appears instantly. I have no problem with this representation.
I thought that it might have just been an oversight that there was no external view of oil on the canopy.
If there is oil appearing on the canopy from inside then isn't that all that's required for the external. If there is already a 3D texture map of the oil for the inside can it not just be scaled and used for the outside? Seems to me there is already a 3D texture model of the oil.
It just isn't applied.

If you look at my first screenshot. You see oil and bullet holes on the front pane, the left and the right.
In respect of the BF109 we could have these same textures mapped onto the front, left and right panes externally.
The same principal could be applied to other aircraft.

I am of the opinion that it would be better having some than none at all. It's just not right as it is.

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[This message was edited by Scragbat on Thu May 13 2004 at 12:43 PM.]

WWMaxGunz
05-13-2004, 05:53 PM
My big problem is bullets going right through thick angled armorglass plate! Screw the graphics! The windshield should be a mess but it should also take some hits to penetrate shouldn't it? Otherwise why on earth bother with the weight and corresponding loss of view just having the thing?

Graphics -- nothing has to be. It is because of decisions made including the running speed of the sim.


Neal

Scragbat
05-13-2004, 08:37 PM
Why would a canopy with oil on it give any more of a performance hit than the external damage that we already see? An aircraft can look like Swiss cheese on an external view and there is no visible performance hit to speak of, even on my humble system.
I am sure that damage represented on the canopy externally or a canopy with oil smears will not hit performance any more than having a wing with a gaping hole in it.
Why would it?
Was this left out to save performance?
I see it being left out as an oversight.

If you're going to represent something inside the cockpit that common sense says would be seen outside, then it needs to be represented.
It is simple logic.

I wonder what Oleg thinks.
I would think the person who devised the software would be in a better position to answer or contradict.

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Scragbat's Forgotten Battles Virtual Movies (http://www.appy55.dsl.pipex.com)

WWMaxGunz
05-13-2004, 08:58 PM
Maybe oil smears should be part of damage graphics? I thought maybe they are on the body. Canopies do seem to have been passed over or missed. Still, nothing is free.
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Neal