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projectpat06
11-06-2012, 12:27 AM
I want to know what everyone else thought of Haytham's death? For me, this part of the game started to lose me and felt rushed and wasn't given much explanation. Connor had just told Achilles he was hoping to reconcile with his father and bring peace between the Templars. He goes into the fort to take out Charles Lee, then starts to get hit by cannon fire that he started. That was kind of dumb. Then Haytham comes out of no where and Connor just has a change of heart? And Then Lee makes all these threats to destroy everything connor knew and loved then all of a sudden tries to high tail it back england?? Then somehow he's just sitting in the tavern and gives up to Connor.


Thoughts

Apirka
11-06-2012, 12:48 AM
I didn't like it either. I mean, it makes sense in a way, but there was so much potential in that setup -- Haytham being Connor's father and America's Templar grandmaster, but what they actually did didn't even begin to live up to that potential. When I got to the part where Haytham dies, I seriously considered to just put down the game and watch the ending on the Internet, but didn't do it because I only had one sequence left and wanted to play the modern day part myself. But yes, I was disappointed, very much so.

vivaxardas
11-06-2012, 01:12 AM
Well. it made no freaking sense to me, and even though I finished the game one, I am not going to finish it again, and just stop on 10. Setup was perfect, then everything went to dogs for no apparent reason. May be this Mass Effect 3 thingy is a sort of a virus that infects writers and makes them totally whacked in terms of proper story development. Actually, I am OK with Desmond's ending, but that thing with Connor and Haytham killed the whole story for me.

NinjaOnFire
11-06-2012, 01:13 AM
It did get very rushed towards the end.

xXRyzonXx
11-06-2012, 01:18 AM
I think you fail to see the fact the Connor was forced to kill him.. or he would've died himself, he even said "Yield and I will spare you" to his father.. right before his father tried to kill him.

Also.. Don't put spoilers in the title of your threads...

vivaxardas
11-06-2012, 01:22 AM
The conflict itself did not make any sense to me, does not matter who was an initiator, and who was forcing whom. It felt highly artificial, for a shock value mostly. For me, when Ezio spared Borgia, it was a much stronger emotional impact, then a forced confrontation and patricide.

Apirka
11-06-2012, 01:26 AM
Well. it made no freaking sense to me, and even though I finished the game one, I am not going to finish it again, and just stop on 10. Setup was perfect, then everything went to dogs for no apparent reason. May be this Mass Effect 3 thingy is a sort of a virus that infects writers and makes them totally whacked in terms of proper story development. Actually, I am OK with Desmond's ending, but that thing with Connor and Haytham killed the whole story for me.

As said, Haytham was trying to kill Connor (which I have to say I was rather Meh about as well. the team up mission gave me the impression that both somewhat cared about each other, so the way that was done didn't really feel... organic. More like "Hey, we need to have Haytham try to off Connor, let's just have him do that and not develop what's going on in any way.)

What I would have liked is at least for Lee to escape. Would have made for a better story, imho.

And in general, I think it would have been more interesting if it didn't end in a "Assassin's win and are the good guys, Templars lose and are the bad guys" way. One of the things so wonderful about Haytham's character is that there's a lot of grey morality going on with him, but his end (and Charles' end), didn't really reflect that.

Apirka
11-06-2012, 01:28 AM
The conflict itself did not make any sense to me, does not matter who was an initiator, and who was forcing whom. It felt highly artificial, for a shock value mostly. For me, when Ezio spared Borgia, it was a much stronger emotional impact, then a forced confrontation and patricide.

Well, Haytham seemed to have chosen Charles over Connor. Which I think is okay (if somewhat disappointing), but the way it was handled was very disappointing.

And yeah, playing a character who would kill his father doesn't quite sit right with me. Particularly since I didn't see Connor really showing any guilt about it.

Kaschra
11-06-2012, 03:46 AM
It felt too rushed, I agree with that :/



Not to mention that Haytham was probably my favourite AC3 character... oh great, another dead favourite character, how awesome... -___-

projectpat06
11-06-2012, 04:01 AM
I think you fail to see the fact the Connor was forced to kill him.. or he would've died himself, he even said "Yield and I will spare you" to his father.. right before his father tried to kill him.

Also.. Don't put spoilers in the title of your threads...

Yeah, didn't really know how to really get around that subject without a spoiler. But it is in the spoiler threads/ hints and tips and not in the general discussion so people can expect spoilers when clicking in these threads.


And glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. I'm not disappointed that connor killed Haytham and Lee. I'm just disappointed how anti climatic it was. The first half of the game so epic and built everything up for the ending. I didn't expect it to be a Fairy tale with a happy ending given achilles' quote but I just wanted it to be more epic.

lodylody
11-06-2012, 08:42 AM
Yeah, didn't really know how to really get around that subject without a spoiler. But it is in the spoiler threads/ hints and tips and not in the general discussion so people can expect spoilers when clicking in these threads.


And glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. I'm not disappointed that connor killed Haytham and Lee. I'm just disappointed how anti climatic it was. The first half of the game so epic and built everything up for the ending. I didn't expect it to be a Fairy tale with a happy ending given achilles' quote but I just wanted it to be more epic.
People might want tips, and not spoilers like this though... Not everyone comes here for spoilers.

AWBiggs
11-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Not to mention that Haytham was probably my favourite AC3 character... oh great, another dead favourite character, how awesome... -___-

Probably a good chance that Haytham is also an ancestor of Lucy then?

shobhit7777777
11-06-2012, 10:02 AM
FFS change the title....you just spoiled a major thing for me.

Also, the argument that this is a Spoiler forum is invalid since there are hundreds of spoilers...you may be aware of some and you may not be aware of the others..its a matter of odds. Not to mention that anything remotely spoiler-ish is to be tagged and NOT mentioned in the thread title

projectpat06
11-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Please change the title to "what happens to Haytham in sequence 11" or something to that extent.

I guess I liked Haytham's character a lot and to be honest, kept comparing him to Anakin Skywalker so I was hoping his end would have been a little more epic. The more I think about it, the battle with him was still pretty cool. It's more of the scenes after his death with charles lee that just seemed rushed.

Apirka
11-06-2012, 10:52 PM
I still think Haytham's death would have been a little better if Charles had at least escaped. Sequence 12 was just... Well. "Anticlimactic" is probably the nicest thing I can say about it.

Of course, a better death scene overall, if he had to die, would have been preferable. I mean, come on, Haytham Kenway, killed by some barely conscious brat. ...I mean Assassin. Yes. But really. Connor was hardly in any condition to give a proper fight.

AllThatJuice
11-06-2012, 10:54 PM
So you're mad because Connor didnt stick to his plan of bonding with his Dad?...Its hard to do that when your Dads trying to kill you.

Come on, its obvious Haytham had far more important things on his mind than to form a relationship with his son. The fact that he pretty much sacrificed his life for Lee's (told lee to leave the fort) so that the Templars could succeed with their plan, proves that. Besides Connor says earlier to Washington and Haytham, that if any of them get in his way he will kill them. So its not as if he changed his mind right then and there when he was confronted by Haytham.

NumberSix1967
11-07-2012, 09:10 PM
It'd have been nice to see Haytham return to Europe with his Grand Master status. He was obviously an excellent member of the Templars and his talents were wasted by his death. I'd have been happy to play the entirety of AC3 as Haytham to be honest, with the twist being that he was a Templar. Or even knowing full well he was a Templar would have been fine. It'd have shaken things up a bit and been interesting.

Mega8BitPanda
11-07-2012, 09:32 PM
I quite liked it. Connor's plan was brash and not that well thought out, which was kinda true to his character, and he needed the big distraction to run around the military zone while they payed attention to the fire rather than their normal duties. Him getting hit added a sense of danger and realism to me; he didn't get past it unscathed which would have been a rather hard task and I would have seen it as rather predictable for him to pull it off without a hitch.

What the fight did wrong was all the build up speeches about their ideologies and differences was in the fight. The longer you held off beating Haytham, the more you got to hear, had more been in a cut-scene fight prior the actual fight I may have liked it a bit more as it cut off mid-sentence for me into the finishing cut-scene. As already pointed out though, Connor was tired of Haytham keeping information and demanding things as he held off just outright telling him about Washington until he got the note, so they had cause. Like most the ending though besides Charles Lee, personally, it was far too quickly passed over.

Haytham only cared for Connor as a pawn, not a son, which I thought was pretty clear the way he said to do things because he simply said so, I doubt that was in there for a bit of 'Father/Son Banter' and nothing else.

eagleforlife1
11-07-2012, 09:46 PM
I didn't like the whole Haytham/Connor situation. The guy that Connor had been trying to kill for the previous nine years appears before him in an abandoned church and after a quick chat they are suddenly best of friends. I didn't like how they went form worst enemies to best friends and to worst enemies again.

Altair661
11-07-2012, 09:47 PM
Ever since Mass Effect 3, people seem to think they get to dictate what happens in a game. I thought it was all told well, it was Ubisoft's story to tell, they spent years of their life coming up with this, and you write off in an instant. When you read a book you don't say "I read 1,000 pages of this book, didnt like the last 10, should have been different". It's their story being told to you, not everyone is going to like it, doesn't mean it needs to be changed.

F4H bandicoot
11-07-2012, 09:59 PM
People misunderstand the reasoning behind the 'retake' ME3 movement.
As fans, we were massively lied too, totally let down, it was meant to be the ending to be all endings. It was far more complex than a bunch of people not liking the ending.
Everything the ME3 Devs said, such as "no reaper off switch", "Every choice will matter" etc turned out to be one big lie. This ending is not even close the ME3's ending on the scale.
This hasn't happened with this, nowhere have we been lied too, they finished Desmond's story, just like they said. The ending has many thing pointing to it.

The problem is with the presentation, the underlying message, themes and plot is great. The same cannot be said of ME3, where the whole thing is rotten to the core.

projectpat06
11-07-2012, 11:13 PM
^^^presentation is what I meant. I didn't mind that Haytham died or that Lee died. I just felt like things were left out and it just quickly went from one thing to another without much build up. The more I think about killing Lee in the Tavern, the more I do like it. Connor asks lee for his name as a kid so he could find him. Connor did just that and it seemed like they were both just tired and had everything taken away from them by that point anyways. Lee's "surrender" so to speak was just his realization of everything and to show that the Templars really aren't pure evil. Lee had just given up which is what Connor wanted. What did bother me was just how lee made all those threats to Connor at Haytham's funeral then nothing happened. I expected all hell to break loose before Connor tracked Lee down. Instead Lee was fleeing to England I guess because the war was over??? They don't really explain what changed him. And what parade? I was confused on that as well.


And don't get me wrong, I don't want ubi to change anything. It's their game so they are entitled to do as they please. I'm thankful for their game, but I still thought I would see if anyone else felt the same way about these sequences

TeamCoby
11-08-2012, 12:08 AM
I wish Hatham could have been an Assassin.