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View Full Version : Midway Island Incorrect in Screenshots



BeerCamel
06-05-2004, 03:54 PM
Sand Island in the screens id the PostWW2 version. It was much smaller in 1941 to 1943...

BeerCamel
06-05-2004, 03:54 PM
Sand Island in the screens id the PostWW2 version. It was much smaller in 1941 to 1943...

LEXX_Luthor
06-05-2004, 05:39 PM
Use Zoom-In feature, make very big.

tenmmike
06-05-2004, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BeerCamel:
Sand Island in the screens id the PostWW2 version. It was much smaller in 1941 to 1943...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>1st post and all you can do is complain http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif.....post your proof

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif 84-91

BeerCamel
06-05-2004, 06:42 PM
The preview screenshots of Sand Island show post WW2 construction that was intiated to extend the runway length in order to accommodate modern jet fighters. the screenshots show Midway's Sand Island as it looks now... NOT as it did during 1941-43. Sand Island was signifcantly smaller and of different shape during WW2. the USN added tons of fill to build longer runways.

PROOF?... It does not take much research to find it on the internet.... But for the 'Google Impaired' check out the link at the bottom of this post.

My reason for posting this it to correct an error before this game ships... not to complain.

BTW I spent a fair amount of time on Midway... The last aircraft I flew from Sand Island was an F-4..... Phantom ( Not F4F!,, I ain't THAT old!)

It will be intersting to 'fly' from there again... I would like it to be historically correct though.http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/midway.htm

Chuck_Older
06-05-2004, 06:46 PM
I was just gonna say it was low tide.


Camel, it may be that there are not enough good pics of Sand from the air to make an accurate rendition of the island(Luthier has seen any website you might direct him to, 9999 times out of 100000), so maybe the model is made accurately from a source that could be verified as 'correct'- but the wrong year. Just a thought

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

BeerCamel
06-05-2004, 07:08 PM
That link is good enough to draw a more accurate version... but if more is needed then the USN should be more than able to provide aeronatical charts from their archives.... They are generally very willing to help on legit research.

I don't think the tides are all that drastic... the biggest thing I remember about tidal difference was underwater visibility... it kicked up a lot of sand and vis dropped to about 3 feet.... not a good idea to swim in low vis due to the high number of big sharks around Midway.

BTW I found an old spent .50 Cal shell on the east end of Eastern Island. It was dated 1940 so it could have been from the battle... It resides somewhere in my attic now...

[This message was edited by BeerCamel on Sun June 06 2004 at 10:35 AM.]

kikka-01
06-05-2004, 07:22 PM
BeerCamel is exactly right. I have looked at an October 1941 photomosaic of the atoll as well as maps and blueprints at the National Archives, Naval Historical Center at the Washington Naval Yard, and photos from the battle and stills from the John Ford coverage of the battle. I have xeroxed many of the maps and will attempt to scan them in when my day job permits.
The harbor area on the eastern end of Sand Island lacked the southerly "lip" during the battle, and it wasn't added until 1943. A very well developed naval seaplane and submarine base, as well as cable station for the trans Pacific cable, a Pan-Am hotel, and USMC barracks were there; a very developed infrastructure. Also the Runways of Eastern Island were concrete, and lined with sand filled berms. Eastern's infrstructure was pretty primative compared to Sand, but the whole Atoll bristled with troops, PT boats, 3" AA guns, 5" naval guns, several 7" guns and twin 20mm, and 37mm guns. Also .50 and .30 MGs of the 6th DB reinforced. Also 5 light Marine tanks!
I really hope Ubi can get this right, no other Flight Sim ever has.

tenmmike
06-05-2004, 07:26 PM
well then good job(catch)?, lets see what luthier has to say then.

http://www.2-60inf.com/2-60_crest.gif 84-91

LEXX_Luthor
06-05-2004, 07:50 PM
Thanks BC... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif mmm, this could be a rare opportunity to get Luthier to extend Midway map to the South and East as far from Midway as North and West, so we won't always know where the enemy fleet will be--on the Midway map right now, the two fleets can be positioned in only two (2) obviously known directions from Midway.

Right now --&gt; If Friendly Fleet is West of Midway, then Enemy Fleet can only be North of Midway. Unless the ocean is extended south and east for more places that mission builders can place fleets.

heywooood
06-05-2004, 10:48 PM
Moving on from CLOUDS issue since it seems to have been resolved in your favor,eh LEXX... on to your other chestnut... the Midway area... I agree with you, It MUST be a very large area to allow for chance and surprise in mission builders world.

COLD?BeerCamel... If I'm crossing the desert, thats the kinda camel I want.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

LEXX_Luthor
06-05-2004, 11:34 PM
Ssshh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Don't say anything, but a larger map means MORE clouds... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

...and more blue liquid... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

heywooood
06-05-2004, 11:36 PM
And FLYABLE seaplanes???? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

BeerCamel
06-06-2004, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kikka-01:
BeerCamel is exactly right. I have looked at an October 1941 photomosaic of the atoll as well as maps and blueprints at the National Archives, Naval Historical Center at the Washington Naval Yard, and photos from the battle and stills from the John Ford coverage of the battle. I have xeroxed many of the maps and will attempt to scan them in when my day job permits.
The harbor area on the eastern end of Sand Island lacked the southerly "lip" during the battle, and it wasn't added until 1943. A very well developed naval seaplane and submarine base, as well as cable station for the trans Pacific cable, a Pan-Am hotel, and USMC barracks were there; a very developed infrastructure. Also the Runways of Eastern Island were concrete, and lined with sand filled berms. Eastern's infrstructure was pretty primative compared to Sand, but the whole Atoll bristled with troops, PT boats, 3" AA guns, 5" naval guns, several 7" guns and twin 20mm, and 37mm guns. Also .50 and .30 MGs of the 6th DB reinforced. Also 5 light Marine tanks!
I really hope Ubi can get this right, no other Flight Sim ever has.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the 'backup'! If you have good photos from the battle I would be interested in getting a few copies. I have a bunch of pix from my stay on Midway and it would interesting to put together an album of 'then and now'.

Cloyd
06-06-2004, 12:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BeerCamel:
Sand Island in the screens id the PostWW2 version. It was much smaller in 1941 to 1943...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luthier has already been made aware of this issue. This was noted almost a month ago:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by luthier1:
Just FYI guys, even though it's kind of implied, Midway on those shots is still WIP

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kikka-01:
Luthier: Is the intent for Midway at the Battle of Midway in June 1942? If so, I appreciate the WIP note. The National Archives (NARA) has an OUTSTANDING, yet never published photomosaic of the atoll taken in October, 1941 which shows the extent of the facilities several months before the battle. It's quite eye-opening (note: I do NOT have this photomosaic, but it would be well worth acquiring for your modelers). I have some notes and xerox copies of maps of the period with facilities, buildings, and defenses (down to .30 and .50 MG positions). I might be able to scan these for your modelers when I get back from a business trip in two weeks if you are interested... AND, again, as you no-doubt know, the facilities dramatically changed after the battle, most notably from what I see, the lower lip of the harbour (Sand Is.) was added AFTER the battle, it was not present in June 42. Also note: the Runways on Eastern Island were Concrete, not crushed coral, in June 42.
(edited for spelling - Kikka-01)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cloyd


Oops, sorry Kikka-01, I just noticed that you, the person who initially raised this issue, have replied to this post.

[This message was edited by Cloyd on Sun June 06 2004 at 11:34 AM.]

kikka-01
06-25-2004, 09:42 PM
Hey BeerCamel et al.
I finally got enough time to scan in some of my Midway 1942 maps.
How do you get images to display in this area?
I hear ya gotta post them in a web somewhere. That right?
-Kikka

CPS_Shadow
06-26-2004, 11:13 AM
Yes you need to place it on the web somewhere then you can include it in your message using image tags.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">www.thesite.com/thefolder/thefile.jpg</pre>

http://www.speakeasy.org/~word/My6.jpg

kikka-01
06-28-2004, 11:13 AM
Thanks.
Will see if I can post them tonight in a different thread.

kikka-01
06-30-2004, 02:54 PM
checking on ability to post photo.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/kikka/KikkaAvatar01.jpg

[This message was edited by kikka-01 on Wed June 30 2004 at 02:02 PM.]

kikka-01
07-03-2004, 10:41 AM
BeerCamel:
If you want to see LOADS of photos from Midway, look at this page:
Midway Photos (http://www.midwayislandphotos.com/)
Others: NOTE, a lot of these photos are POST-Battle of Midway. However, some of the buildings pictured back up my Map analysis. I will be posting annotated pictures on Sand soon.