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connor_bg
09-29-2012, 08:37 PM
So at the origins trailer part 2 one of the developers explained how we can control Connor during a fight. So pretty much i understood (if i did it right) you counter with a specific key bind, but to release a move you have to do another attack from the variety of action keys for finishing the counter with kill or disarm, stun, etc. So how this should work? I understand it that way- If you fight bunch of guards with different archetypes, for instance, two redcoats and a scott, you choose to counter the redcoat's attack by finishing your counter with a kill move, but if you go against the scott with a kill counter you will receive a head slam by him and get your health down, but if you go for the disarm ,for example, your chain would not be interrupted. Correct me if i am missing something, but i see it that way.

Assassin_M
09-29-2012, 08:39 PM
You are correct..

Calvarok
09-29-2012, 08:49 PM
This should make combat so much more fun

Evenesque
09-29-2012, 09:09 PM
Yea pretty much. Also, from what I understand, the B or Circle button is the block or parry button, but after you press it, it rebinds to one of your melee weapons. I'm pretty sure it was Alex who said in the Boston convention that the left and top face buttons are bound to ranged, and the bottom and right face buttons are bound to your two melee weapons. I can't figure out though if it rebinds like I said, or if it's technically just the disarm button no matter what 2 melee weapons you have equipped.

Sidenote: I really want to see Connor dual-wielding a sword and his hidden blade, or a sword and his tomahawk.

LoyalACFan
09-29-2012, 09:24 PM
Yea pretty much. Also, from what I understand, the B or Circle button is the block or parry button, but after you press it, it rebinds to one of your melee weapons. I'm pretty sure it was Alex who said in the Boston convention that the left and top face buttons are bound to ranged, and the bottom and right face buttons are bound to your two melee weapons. I can't figure out though if it rebinds like I said, or if it's technically just the disarm button no matter what 2 melee weapons you have equipped.

Sidenote: I really want to see Connor dual-wielding a sword and his hidden blade, or a sword and his tomahawk.

Not exactly. Once you counter, the action slows down for a split second, allowing you to press one of the face buttons to perform a specific action. On PS3 (fill in Xbox alternatives as necessary) Square is the traditional counter kill, X is a disarm, Circle is a "throw" action, and Triangle lets you use whichever tool you have equipped to execute the enemy, i.e. the rope dart or pistol.

Evenesque
09-29-2012, 09:25 PM
Not exactly. Once you counter, the action slows down for a split second, allowing you to press one of the face buttons to perform a specific action. On PS3 (fill in Xbox alternatives as necessary) Square is the traditional counter kill, X is a disarm, Circle is a "throw" action, and Triangle lets you use whichever tool you have equipped to execute the enemy, i.e. the rope dart or pistol.

I could have sworn Alex said the face buttons were tied to the weapons when you counter.

LoyalACFan
09-29-2012, 09:32 PM
I could have sworn Alex said the face buttons were tied to the weapons when you counter.

Well, he might have said that earlier on in development, but they said otherwise in more recent interviews, and you can see all the moves I described in the big fight scene they revealed last Monday in the previews (except for the Tool one, which can be seen in Inside AC Part 3 near the end where Connor grabs a guy in a headlock and blows his head off with a pistol).

Evenesque
09-29-2012, 09:49 PM
Well, he might have said that earlier on in development, but they said otherwise in more recent interviews, and you can see all the moves I described in the big fight scene they revealed last Monday in the previews (except for the Tool one, which can be seen in Inside AC Part 3 near the end where Connor grabs a guy in a headlock and blows his head off with a pistol).

http://youtu.be/T4TtxsDw874?t=2m56s

Guess you're right. I don't know where I got my weapons tied to face buttons from. Maybe I'm just thinking of all of those moves changing depending on what weapons you have equipped.

connor_bg
09-29-2012, 11:08 PM
I've also noticed that it takes four swings with the tomahawk to start an execution, just like previous game with the hidden blades, but this goes for the regular red coats, the more badazz archetypes like the scottish dude need an additional break defense attack and 4 swings. What about the SSI, i've noticed red (for enemy attack alert) and a yellow when someone actually tries to distract you or drive you off balance, or else?

adarwinter
09-30-2012, 12:39 AM
i think the SSI is yellow when someone is suspiscious. like in AC2\B\R. once they recognize you as a threat the SSI becomes red. in side the red triangle you see a small white dot as he attacks you.
this is what i made of the vids.

i SOOOOOO hope that we can turn the SSI (counter indicators) OFF in the options. it will be so much fun to look for the actual movements of the enemies to read their attacks!!
i'd play the first time with the SSI on and a second playthrough with it off for extra challenge.
im going to be so disappointed if i couldnt turn it off.



also, i wonder what is the benefit of doing anything other than KILL COUNTER on enemies that CAN be killed with a counter. i think tapping the attack button will execute and re-tapping the counter button will push them or something while the jump button is a ROLL COUNTER. for now it seems like the execute button is a LOT more useful than the other counter types. only if an enemy cant be executed than u can roll or push (disarm?).
if in combat it is really hazardous to be surrounded than the roll is effective. i hope this is the case, though it kinda seems like connor can counter and kill easily from all angles and enemies attack rarely enough so im not sure why would i be afraid of being surrounded.... on the contrary - the more enemies around me the easier it is to chain attacks.

Calvarok
09-30-2012, 12:50 AM
i think the SSI is yellow when someone is suspiscious. like in AC2\B\R. once they recognize you as a threat the SSI becomes red. in side the red triangle you see a small white dot as he attacks you.
this is what i made of the vids.

i SOOOOOO hope that we can turn the SSI (counter indicators) OFF in the options. it will be so much fun to look for the actual movements of the enemies to read their attacks!!
i'd play the first time with the SSI on and a second playthrough with it off for extra challenge.
im going to be so disappointed if i couldnt turn it off.



also, i wonder what is the benefit of doing anything other than KILL COUNTER on enemies that CAN be killed with a counter. i think tapping the attack button will execute and re-tapping the counter button will push them or something while the jump button is a ROLL COUNTER. for now it seems like the execute button is a LOT more useful than the other counter types. only if an enemy cant be executed than u can roll or push (disarm?).
if in combat it is really hazardous to be surrounded than the roll is effective. i hope this is the case, though it kinda seems like connor can counter and kill easily from all angles and enemies attack rarely enough so im not sure why would i be afraid of being surrounded.... on the contrary - the more enemies around me the easier it is to chain attacks.
Throw in some different types though, and you've got a real problem. Plus if there are enough enemies they certainly will attack more often than if there are three.

Escappa
09-30-2012, 12:54 AM
Well I didn't see any dots above NPC's heads in the Boston demo. Well, I know that that demo is an earlier version of the game but still...

adarwinter
09-30-2012, 12:58 AM
Throw in some different types though, and you've got a real problem. Plus if there are enough enemies they certainly will attack more often than if there are three.

i know and took it into consideration, but in previous AC games the rhythm of the AI's attacks wasnt related to their numbers. it's like the devs set the AI to attack every 2 seconds so if u were surrounded by 4 enemies or by 20 they all still attacked every 2 seconds. i understand the design - there is a rhythm that is FUN in UBISOFT's opinion and they try and maintain it, even if it sometimes doesnt make much sense or challenge.

but if every enemy archetype should be countered differently than yeah - we will HAVE to counter differently, but it will feel a bit artificial. i would have loved it more if every counter type is effective against almost every archetype, but the reason why you might wanna do one counter type over the other is the strategic advantage - maybe execution, while does most damage, is slowest, and dodging gets you out of the circle and disarm doesnt do damage at all but takes the enemy out of the fight for longest so u can concentrate on his friends etc etc.
like in batman: arkham city most tools worked on most enemies but deciding what to do and when was about adjusting to the situation. not because they game tells you "dont use this tool against this guy". i loved that.

@escappa - yeah. i was wrong. the dots are inside the triangle but it's not like there is an empty triangle without a dot and another triangle WITH a dot. it's just a triangle when the enemy attacks and thats it. which means there is no health indicators at all. which is fine, IMO.

...please ubi let us turn off the counter indicators. dont let me down.... :P

BBALive
09-30-2012, 01:50 AM
You're correct.

Another archetype shown in the recent previews was wielding a tomahawk like Connor, and was blocking all of Connor's regular attacks, so he had to counter to dispatch him.

Calvarok
09-30-2012, 02:02 AM
no, the rhythm is not related to the number of peole. the number of people just means that there's more people queing to attack.

connor_bg
09-30-2012, 08:16 AM
No, when i say the yellow SSI indication i mean it in combat, it blinks like the red does and ,for example, one of the guards used the hook-and-run animation against Connor, and Connor was like distracted for a second. It is in the Second origin trailer. Maybe those type of moves are meant to be like those from previous games- guard throws sand at you, grabs you, etc.


And im 100% sure that there will be an option for turning the SSI off. Because Ubi has the habit in concentration into making the series have some movie effect, the HUD system allow us to turn those hud elements and the picture itself to seem more legit, imagine if SSI is not included as an option in the HUD, and you see only dots during a fight. So there will be an option for the SSI for sure.


I played ACB and ACR with SSI off, because it was harder for me to play with SSI turned on- the guard's dot blink always was a distraction for me.

I remember this SSI predicting system was first included in AC2, but during the Bonfire DLC, on the mission where you have been trapped by one of the captains into i think it was cemetery's yard and your target send you agiles to deal with you and you had scaffold in front of ezio for him to climb on the rooftop of the cemetery where the captain was with another group of guards, but on the each top of each wing of the building there was archers, and their SSI blinked when they were about to shoot, which is the only SSI's prediction i've seen in AC2.

DavisP92
09-30-2012, 02:16 PM
aren't there 15 enemy archetypes? I'm guessing animals are a part of that, but we already know that we have normal redcoats, Scottish (heavy), acrobatic redcoats (they did an Ezio flip over Connor in the recent vids), the masked redcoats holding swords. That is 4 humanoid types there

Animals have wolves, bears, cougars, moose/antlered deer and that all i can think of now. so 4 animals

we have 8 enemy types out of the 15 so there are 7 unaccounted enemy types so far. I wonder what they are

Mrnilsman
09-30-2012, 02:18 PM
aren't there 15 enemy archetypes? I'm guessing animals are a part of that, but we already know that we have normal redcoats, Scottish (heavy), acrobatic redcoats (they did an Ezio flip over Connor in the recent vids), the masked redcoats holding swords. That is 4 humanoid types there

Animals have wolves, bears, cougars, moose/antlered deer and that all i can think of now. so 4 animals

we have 8 enemy types out of the 15 so there are 7 unaccounted enemy types so far. I wonder what they are

I thought there are 24 different animals

DavisP92
09-30-2012, 02:30 PM
I thought there are 24 different animals

yea there are 24 different animals, i'm not referring to that i'm referring to the enemies. rabbits, beav3rs, foxes, etc. aren't going to be considered enemies

Mrnilsman
09-30-2012, 02:33 PM
yea there are 24 different animals, i'm not referring to that i'm referring to the enemies. rabbits, beav3rs, foxes, etc. aren't going to be considered enemies

Ok, good point ;)

BBALive
09-30-2012, 02:58 PM
aren't there 15 enemy archetypes? I'm guessing animals are a part of that, but we already know that we have normal redcoats, Scottish (heavy), acrobatic redcoats (they did an Ezio flip over Connor in the recent vids), the masked redcoats holding swords. That is 4 humanoid types there

Animals have wolves, bears, cougars, moose/antlered deer and that all i can think of now. so 4 animals

we have 8 enemy types out of the 15 so there are 7 unaccounted enemy types so far. I wonder what they are

I don't think animals are included in the list of enemy archetypes.

DavisP92
09-30-2012, 03:08 PM
I don't think animals are included in the list of enemy archetypes.

If not then that means that there are a lot of enemy archtypes in the game, and i've only named 4 so what others are there. Native american enemies which i remember hearing but then again that may be the acrobatic enemy i mentioned.

pacmanate
09-30-2012, 04:49 PM
This new combat system is going to be so fun I can already tell. It just seems slightly complicated when compared to the 14 archetypes.

I REALLY REALLLY REALYSAYLLYL hope for combat training, where you can have all 14 archetypes on screen at the same time, and see how long you can last. THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME!