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View Full Version : Free-Flow Combat, or What?



tjbyrum1
09-21-2012, 05:01 PM
If you've ever played the most recent Batman games, or Captain America: Super Soldier, or that new game Sleeping Dogs, then you know what the free-flow combat system* is. There may be other games with free-flow combat, but I haven't ran across them.

Does AC3 have free-flow combat in it? Or is it the same 'lock-on' kind of system we have had in previous installments? The 'lock-on' system was okay, but I'll admit there were times when I wish it were different. Anyway, I've been watching every AC3 video to date so far, and I really like the combat, it looks very fluid and satisfying, but I can't tell if that is free-flow or not.

*'Free-Flow Combat System": There is no need to lock-on to a target. You just simply pass by hostile targets, and you're instantly engaged in combat. There is typically a button to attack, one to counter, and one to dodge. It is very fluid, and it is satisfying. I would suggest looking up combat videos of Batman, Captain America, or Sleeping Dogs for a better explanation. I find it better than locking onto a target before starting combat and stuff.

Layytez
09-21-2012, 05:28 PM
They removed the lock on when fighting. Combat now has a similar system to the games you listed.

Ielgon
09-21-2012, 05:33 PM
I remember reading in an interview that they did away with the lock on while in combat (you can still lock on for things like air assassinations and ranged attacks I believe), the way it works now is that when there's a fight going on a certain area around the enemy will be a "combat zone" in that Connor will automatically enter combat mode when he has his weapons drawn while in such a zone and that he'll go out (and into "flight"/freerunning mode) the moment you exit it.

And about free-flow: Now there's no longer any locking on, the direction you push the stick in is the enemy Connor will attack/kill.

tjbyrum1
09-21-2012, 05:35 PM
Okay, thanks for clearing that up, cause combat got frustrating at times with the 'lock-on' system.

This game ought to be amazing.

Sushiglutton
09-21-2012, 05:48 PM
Alex Hutchinson (Creative director for AC3) said below to CVG. So yeah it will be like Batman pretty much with some of their own twists I think. Lock-on mechanic is better for games where you frequently face one or two enemies at the time (such as Dark Souls), but hasn't reallyworked for the AC-games.
(http://www.computerandvideogames.com/363428/assassins-creed-iii-interview-alex-hutchinson/?page=3#top_banner)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/363428/assassins-creed-iii-interview-alex-hutchinson/?page=3#top_banner (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/363428/assassins-creed-iii-interview-alex-hutchinson/?page=3#top_banner)

One of the elements of Assassin's Creed that it appears you want to shake up is the combat. Can you tell us more about that?
Yeah, Assassin's Creed's combat was always beautiful, but I wasn't sure whether it was very tactical. I think it got away with it because it looked so good.
But then games like [the Rocksteady developed] Batman come along and raises the bar. I've tried to get our team to look at that system and think about why it works.
It worked, by the way, because it was one of the only fighting games that keeps things simple. No one admits it, but most people don't understand nor attempt absolutely all the combination moves in a game like Devil May Cry.
But in Arkham Asylum, because it was so simple, everyone could do all manner of things in combat. For once you could do all moves, and it showed that clarity and simplicity is powerful.
So I told the team, if you need to cut half the moves in Assassin's Creed 3 then do it. And I wanted to get rid of the pointless things, like, why are we locking onto targets during combat?
In all honesty, I think that Arkham Asylum is probably a better fight, but we have managed to really improve our fighting system and merge it with the open-world adventure elements much better.

Mrnilsman
09-21-2012, 06:24 PM
I honestly dont get why he is saying that batman probably is a better fight. I mean,sure it might be true but if you want to make people wanna buy your game shouldnt you say something like its as good as batman or even better ??

pacmanate
09-21-2012, 06:47 PM
^ that would be lying. At least he is being modest and telling the truth. Also Batman and AC are completely different games.

tjbyrum1
09-21-2012, 07:05 PM
^ that would be lying. At least he is being modest and telling the truth. Also Batman and AC are completely different games.

Different games? Maybe.
COMPLETELY different games? I don't think so.

Batman is very similar to being an Assassin. I can't explain it good, but they're very similar in my opinion.

But anyway, free-flow combat ought to be pretty cool. The AC3 combat looks very fast-paced, fliud, and exciting. It's well put together, and I can't wait to pull it off.

Mrnilsman
09-21-2012, 08:47 PM
^ that would be lying. At least he is being modest and telling the truth. Also Batman and AC are completely different games.

I appreciate that he is honest ;)
I was not thinking about the fact that there might be some game devs out there that do not only wanna sell as many copies of their game as possible no matter what kind of **** they have to say for that.

tjbyrum1
09-21-2012, 08:57 PM
I appreciate that he is honest ;)
I was not thinking about the fact that there might be some game devs out there that do not only wanna sell as many copies of their game as possible no matter what kind of **** they have to say for that.

Regardless, I don't think saying "Arkham Asylum is a better fight" will decrease sales.

Mrnilsman
09-21-2012, 09:11 PM
right, but it doesnt increases them neither

tjbyrum1
09-21-2012, 09:14 PM
right, but it doesnt increases them neither

What's that got anything to do with it?

Free_Hidings
09-21-2012, 09:42 PM
Saying Batman will be a better fight won't decrease sales. In fact it makes him seem more trustworthy as he isn't trying to bullshirt us and say this game is the best at everything. Obviously, some games will do some things better, but overall the way fighting works in AC, it has to look awesome. The cost of more dynamic fighting mechanics could be less smooth / aesthetically appleasing animations and transitions. I would rather have AC style fighting in an AC game even if it's not as dynamic and challenging. Though if they can find a way to combine challenge with fluidity and variety then that will be awesome, AC4?

Mrnilsman
09-21-2012, 10:27 PM
Saying Batman will be a better fight won't decrease sales. In fact it makes him seem more trustworthy as he isn't trying to bullshirt us and say this game is the best at everything. Obviously, some games will do some things better, but overall the way fighting works in AC, it has to look awesome. The cost of more dynamic fighting mechanics could be less smooth / aesthetically appleasing animations and transitions. I would rather have AC style fighting in an AC game even if it's not as dynamic and challenging. Though if they can find a way to combine challenge with fluidity and variety then that will be awesome, AC4?

/agreed
thanks for clarifying that :)

Azurefeatherfly
09-21-2012, 11:55 PM
This is a post that I wrote previously.


Controls(360/PS3 peripherals)

Y or Triangle is so far only responsible for using tools.

X or Square is responsible for attacking. "Combos" and different "moves" have been mentioned.

A or X is responsible for Break Defence and Human Shield. Since this button is the jump command, kicking and dodging may be other functions.

B or Circle is so far only responsible for Counter. Due to the fact that you tackle using this button, Grab may be another function.

Note: Gametrailer journalist had apparently recorded the button mapping from the demo in February and they were Tool, Attack, Kick, and Grab. This however may have changed during the last 7 months.

Enemies:

So far there are a total of 10 possible enemy archetypes based on their uniform.


Regular Redcoats (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-glmpFKGoapw/UFVg4d3ks_I/AAAAAAAAAJY/VaMuj60smz8/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-03h40m18s185.jpg), they appear to be the weakest guards so far.

Redcoats with Backpacks (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ee3Baa2WcxY/UFVg4kMjtBI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/Pjb81HR82eQ/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-04h00m33s66.jpg), three hits from these guys reduced Connor to half health in one of the Wii U demo thus making them a little tougher than the ones above.

Axe-Wielding Scotsmen (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kcojdth-P2E/UFVg4x4vU2I/AAAAAAAAAJs/to5EbI24gBQ/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-04h20m14s113.jpg), obviously the Brute equivalent of AC3, hopefully their attack speed is kicked up a notch.

Snitch, a very versatile guard archetype that is always wearing blue wielding four different weapons. Musket (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-MNjs8t_0rSY/UFVg4RCeKlI/AAAAAAAAAJU/K-h3q5xIvzI/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-03h59m07s210.jpg), Hammer/Hatchet (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-yfeMoVVzN1Q/UFVg4Tj6mUI/AAAAAAAAAKM/dqHZyGxMMLw/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-03h59m39s23.jpg), Sword (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yvZ2NczjkD8/UFVg4fhog4I/AAAAAAAAAKQ/Yx41zlp0pws/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-03h37m11s47.jpg), Dagger (https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-V-knLRDIp7I/UFVlP8XOpgI/AAAAAAAAAK8/tWrL-aZ7ehI/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-03h36m28s117.jpg). Hopefully the tactic against each weapon will be different.

Captain (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KJncUNnGELs/UFVg442lBiI/AAAAAAAAAJo/5tEoRaYue9k/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-04h18m34s78.jpg), from his rank and the fact that he wields a sword and pistol would indicate that these guys could be on of the more difficult guards to deal with.

Colonists (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-vGrTZLPE_zU/UFVg7Cbe_yI/AAAAAAAAAKg/sp700qb_7h4/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-04h16m47s37.jpg) also seem to have the basic archetypes, whether they are different from the British counterparts remains to be seen.

Unknown 1 (https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vrnss9T4dt0/UFVg4UbbRqI/AAAAAAAAAJc/CxhiEG_2sAI/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-04h02m40s24.jpg), Possibly Hessian Jaegars?

Unknown 2 (https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-93UIIHIiq74/UFVg4lHQg8I/AAAAAAAAAJk/DgSJs22ub3g/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-04h03m52s223.jpg)

Unknown 3 (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-C2SiIQscW3Y/UFVg7BbDLII/AAAAAAAAAKc/uQdSLvVtdBo/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-15-04h04m07s170.jpg)

Equipment:

Weapons: So far we have Tomahawk, Sword, Hidden Blades, War Club, and Fists.

Tools: Bow, Rope Dart, Dual Pistols and at least three other tools. Connor has also been seen with a musket on his back (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qfIx4L_6fis/UFVu0hh595I/AAAAAAAAALM/l0keXm8bMbk/s1280/vlcsnap-2012-09-16-02h15m56s76.jpg), which category it belongs to is unknown.



My Thoughts:

I am really glad that they got rid of the the RT crutch, and separated the Attack and Counter buttons. This is a much better input system that requires more attention from the player.

Hopefully the combos and different moves that Hutchinson talked about requires multiple buttons and timing.

It is great that there are a lot of different guards, hopefully each one requiring different approaches and tactics from the player.

With all the weapons, I hope they each other a different purpose instead of the Hidden Blades being the end all be all of the previous titles.

The definitely need more than just shoot followed with CQC tactics. Different combat situations need to appear to push the player to adapt.