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lothario-da-be
09-15-2012, 09:09 PM
Ac3 has a lot similarities with RDR and it made me wonder if ac3 would have been a les good game if rdr didn't existed.Because now they are like trying to 'beat' rdr.
There was an interview with alex hutchingson ( or something like that) where he said rdr gave some inspiration.Like the animals.
What do you think?

Slayer_WTF
09-15-2012, 09:18 PM
To be honest, I do not see inspiration in RDR.

If the main character was called John and he would be an outlaw, I'd have been proved right. Hunting and forests you can find them in many other games released even before RDR.

LightRey
09-15-2012, 09:18 PM
I'd hardly call inspiration them trying to "beat" it. I think it's a good thing. Inspiration is what drives progress.

Sushiglutton
09-15-2012, 09:20 PM
He has actually said that they thought of animals before Red Dead shipped (http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/pc/assassins-creed-2012/1221571p1.html): "Early on we were like, 'There have to be animals! No one in open-world games is doing animals!' And then of course four months later Red Dead Redemption ships,"

But yeah I think all good developers take ideas from other good developers. They have taken inspiration for the combat from Arkham Asylum/City and I'm sure Red Dead has inspired them in many ways too. Red Dead is the best action adventure wilderness game to my knowledge, so not take ideas from it would be crazy. As long as they add their own stuff.

One thing Red Dead did very well was all the mini-missions that randomly popped up where you could assist people in the world. You know much like assisting that woman in the Boston demo ;)

HisSpiritLives
09-15-2012, 09:23 PM
To be honest, I do not see inspiration in RDR.

If the main character was called John and he would be an outlaw, I'd have been proved right. Hunting and forests you can find them in many other games released even before RDR.

Besides open world and animals i dont see similarities :confused:

naran6142
09-15-2012, 10:25 PM
Well adding animals is sorta the next step in an open world game, and where there are animals you want to hunt

E-Zekiel
09-15-2012, 10:31 PM
Frankly, Red Dead did a lot of stuff that hadn't really been seen before (or at least, not in a big release, maybe it had been seen before otherwise).

The biggest of which were all mostly "little" things that people absolutely loved. Greeting NPCs, random events, bounties that cause people to hunt you down, the threat of actually being killed by an animal (especially a god**** cougar sneaking up on you and knocking you over and pwning you before you stand back up).

All that kind of thing. The biggest things were just the level of "realism" as you traveled through the world, due to the different things and random events that could happen.

So it's not a bad thing to take a few notes from them. It's a good thing.

SixKeys
09-15-2012, 11:32 PM
Another possible similarity is that the devs have confirmed the NPCs in AC3 will have their own little routines and tasks, instead of just standard animations. The weather systems also sound similar and possibly your actions influencing the way people react to you. I don't have a problem with AC having things that may be inspired by other games, as long as they put their own twist on them.

playassassins1
09-15-2012, 11:48 PM
I don't think this is a bad thing though. RDR was great in almost every way. So a few things inspired from RDR isn't something to worry about.

MetalCreed
09-15-2012, 11:58 PM
First off, in no way are they trying to beat RDR.
The hunting aspect was made before RDR even came out. It was still in pre-alpha stage I think at that time and when RDR came out they were like "neat, but these guys already have it in their game! So they saw the success and stuck with the plan and tried to make it better, so in that way, it sort of inspired them.

Besides all of that, these games are not alike at all. They're both open world games, and have that wild life aspect in the game, that's about it.

doogsy91
09-16-2012, 12:46 AM
RDR was the most amazing game ever. It's clearly a big inspiration for ACIII with the following features...

1. Hunting and wildlife as mentioned.
2. The wilderness of the Frontier.
3. The American setting.
4. The organic inclusion of side missions into the gameworld and main narrative.
5. I know we haven't got details yet, but I would not be surprised at all if the new notoriety system resembles that of Red Dead.
6. Property system consists of buying safehouses.
7. Hunting challenges etc.
8. Dynamic weather.

Now I'm not saying that Red Dead was the first to do every single one of these things and that the reason ACIII is doing them is because of Red Dead, but as a whole package, it is clearly a huge influence.

Soulid_Snake
09-16-2012, 02:09 AM
RDR is a technical masterpiece, but I find it boring as hell, imo! The only similarity I can see is the manner in which Conner kills the Wolf in comparison to John Marston. AC2 is way better!

Assassin_M
09-16-2012, 02:36 AM
RDR is a technical masterpiece, but I find it boring as hell, imo! The only similarity I can see is the manner in which Conner kills the Wolf in comparison to John Marston. AC2 is way better!
AC 2 ? Conner ?

r4inm4n1991
09-16-2012, 02:39 AM
The name is different. And AC as a number on it. Take that RDR!!

kudos17
09-16-2012, 03:32 AM
I really don't see how RDR can be considered a huge influence. Maybe in the way some aspects are carried out, but in the basic idea? It's all the same.

Both RDR and AC3 focus on the early American frontier. Of course many things will be the same - it's historical. I think it'd be weird to have a Native American protagonist who didn't interact with animals or hunted them; it'd be weird to have an American frontier that didn't have snow or rain. These things, I believe, are a must-have.

Soulid_Snake
09-16-2012, 03:35 AM
AC 2 ? Conner ?

Yep Conner!

Watch:

RDR @ 0:51 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWgirQmmRa0
AC3 @ 1:19 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZrklEy9ohQ

For people thinking AC3 needing to learn from RDR to become a better game, it doesn't! Which is why I made the AC2 comment, it already is better game and that I can't compare AC3 to RDR without playing it first!

Assassin_M
09-16-2012, 03:39 AM
Yep Conner!

Watch:

RDR @ 0:51 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWgirQmmRa0
AC3 @ 1:19 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZrklEy9ohQ

For people thinking AC3 needing to learn from RDR to become a better game, it doesn't! Which is why I made the AC2 comment, it already is better game and that I can't compare AC3 to RDR without playing it first!
I'm confused xD

DAFOC
09-16-2012, 06:54 AM
RDR was a **** good game and if they take some stuff from it then all the better.

HisSpiritLives
09-16-2012, 08:57 AM
I really don't see how RDR can be considered a huge influence. Maybe in the way some aspects are carried out, but in the basic idea? It's all the same.

Both RDR and AC3 focus on the early American frontier. Of course many things will be the same - it's historical. I think it'd be weird to have a Native American protagonist who didn't interact with animals or hunted them; it'd be weird to have an American frontier that didn't have snow or rain. These things, I believe, are a must-have.

I agree , i dont see big similarities.

POP1Fan
09-16-2012, 09:04 AM
For people thinking AC3 needing to learn from RDR to become a better game, it doesn't! Which is why I made the AC2 comment, it already is better game and that I can't compare AC3 to RDR without playing it first!

This sums everything I had in mind pretty well.

De Filosoof
09-16-2012, 10:16 AM
whats i ac3 feller and why u put it in ur RDr i dont think ur supose to that bigfoot didnt think it was a good idear u get there fella

Great...a new troll on the forums.

pacmanate
09-16-2012, 12:29 PM
Everytime I see Boston gameplay I'm like "Its like RDR but you can climb stuffs!!!".

BeCk41
09-16-2012, 01:11 PM
They might want to top RDR in some ways like the hunting, but we won't see any familiar styles. Ubisoft has done a good job at keeping things original in my opinion. I think other game developers should be copying Ubisoft! :3

@Pacmanate- you can climb buildings and stuff in Red Dead btw... (O.o)

pacmanate
09-16-2012, 10:02 PM
They might want to top RDR in some ways like the hunting, but we won't see any familiar styles. Ubisoft has done a good job at keeping things original in my opinion. I think other game developers should be copying Ubisoft! :3

@Pacmanate- you can climb buildings and stuff in Red Dead btw... (O.o)

I know but I meant as an Assassin haha.

projectpat06
09-16-2012, 11:01 PM
bounties that cause people to hunt you down
So it's not a bad thing to take a few notes from them. It's a good thing.

Speaking of bounties. I hope AC3 has some kind of system tied to the notoriety where Connor is actually hunted as a wanted man. It could be similar to the templar assassins in ACR but more involved with a group of them. They could even just be a group of soldiers with tracking dogs to sniff you out in the wilderness. Just something to add to the random events to keep the players entertained

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 05:13 AM
I'm not sure where RDR gets so much praise. I played about 2/3 of the way through and found only a string of fetch quests and 'random' instances that happened over and over that kept me from what I was doing (not in a good way), and forever long cut-scenes that made me never want to skin an animal ever again, but felt I had to so that I could complete yet another 'get X pelts from Ys' quest. I genuinely hope that ACIII only shares animals and open world with RDR.

Side note: If I'm wrong about RDR and somehow missed something, let me know.

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 05:29 AM
Side note: If I'm wrong about RDR and somehow missed something, let me know.
Nah.. You just don't like it and there is nothing wrong with that..

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 05:38 AM
Nah.. You just don't like it and there is nothing wrong with that..

That's what I figured. I just don't want to come off as not open to other points of view. Maybe I was playing it wrong or something. Maybe there was something I was supposed to do/unlock/whatever that I just missed.

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 05:42 AM
That's what I figured. I just don't want to come off as not open to other points of view. Maybe I was playing it wrong or something. Maybe there was something I was supposed to do/unlock/whatever that I just missed.
Its normal..

You don't like the skinning scene (Which AC III will have btw), Random Events (Which AC III will also have btw) and the Mission Structure..

Its an Opinion, so..

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 05:47 AM
Its normal..

You don't like the skinning scene (Which AC III will have btw), Random Events (Which AC III will also have btw) and the Mission Structure..

Its an Opinion, so..

Have they said if you can skip the scene? I didn't mind how it looked, and actually kind of liked it until about the tenth time seeing it. Edit: I just don't need to see it fifty times.

Also, will it be random events like in other AC games (ie, someone needs help and waives at you) or will it be the same "man hanging from a tree on his horse" that I saved about thirty times, and if you don't save him you're bad in some way? Or have they said?

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 05:55 AM
Have they said if you can skip the scene? I didn't mind how it looked, and actually kind of liked it until about the tenth time seeing it. Edit: I just don't need to see it fifty times.

Also, will it be random events like in other AC games (ie, someone needs help and waives at you) or will it be the same "man hanging from a tree on his horse" that I saved about thirty times, and if you don't save him you're bad in some way? Or have they said?
I don't know if you can skip it..

No and yes. No, they wont be like other AC games and yes that they`ll be random like RDR.. But Bad ? As far as I remember If you ignore someone... You got no penalty..

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 06:09 AM
I don't know if you can skip it..

No and yes. No, they wont be like other AC games and yes that they`ll be random like RDR.. But Bad ? As far as I remember If you ignore someone... You got no penalty..

Maybe I just felt bad for ignoring someone getting hung... and sometimes, if I got too close, the hangers would start attacking me, so it forced me to turn and fight them when I was busy elsewhere. This is the first bit of news that makes me less excited.

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 06:11 AM
Maybe I just felt bad for ignoring someone getting hung... and sometimes, if I got too close, the hangers would start attacking me, so it forced me to turn and fight them when I was busy elsewhere. This is the first bit of news that makes me less excited.
Im sorry:(

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 06:17 AM
Im sorry:(

Not your fault. I just REALLY didn't like the fetch-quests, side or main, so hearing that ACIII might be the same is a little unnerving. Did RDR make a cool world? Yes. Did they make it very engaging for twenty hours? Yes. But what they lacked was an enjoyable forty hours. Assassin's creed fixed the repetitiveness in ACII, so if they take the engaging world and killing animals from RDR, I think that'll be great. If they decide to take forty hours of fetching stuff, I'll be disappointed because they've taken a step backwards.

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 06:24 AM
Not your fault. I just REALLY didn't like the fetch-quests, side or main, so hearing that ACIII might be the same is a little unnerving. Did RDR make a cool world? Yes. Did they make it very engaging for twenty hours? Yes. But what they lacked was an enjoyable forty hours. Assassin's creed fixed the repetitiveness in ACII, so if they take the engaging world and killing animals from RDR, I think that'll be great. If they decide to take forty hours of fetching stuff, I'll be disappointed because they've taken a step backwards.
In your Opinion:p

I didn't find anything forcing me to perform the random quests (Although I enjoyed them Immensely) what`s good about "Random" is that comes out of no where, it gives off a more organic feeling.

In AC II they were there forever, Im like "Hey, mate.. you`re still here ?" It didn't make sense to me, Also regarding the fetching... AC II had A LOT of that and actually most Open world games do to give you some sort of "Tour" in the world..

I can Understand, though, You not liking them..

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 06:36 AM
In your Opinion:p

I didn't find anything forcing me to perform the random quests (Although I enjoyed them Immensely) what`s good about "Random" is that comes out of no where, it gives off a more organic feeling.

In AC II they were there forever, Im like "Hey, mate.. you`re still here ?" It didn't make sense to me, Also regarding the fetching... AC II had A LOT of that and actually most Open world games do to give you some sort of "Tour" in the world..

I can Understand, though, You not liking them..

I know what you mean about there being fetching in II, and my wife made a similar statement when I said I hated the fetching in RDR. To me, there's a difference between the two. In ACII, I'm an assassin, so it makes sense that I'll be doing assassinations, freeing prisoners, beating unfaithful husbands, and stealing uniforms. Am I technically fetching? Yes, but all my fetching has a context and story that makes it interesting. In RDR, very little of it had much story. I think the only one that I really enjoyed was the "get flowers for my wife" who turned out to be dead. That was interesting, but when it said I had to get X-number of bear pelts, I was like, "Hey, didn't I already do this with wolves and cougars?" And none of them had any story other than stores like to buy pelts. I'm not sure if I'm making the difference clear, but to me there is one.

I do see what your saying with random feeling more organic, and I agree with you whole-heartedly. I like the idea of random happenings that I come across, as, like you said, they seem more real. What seems unreal though, is the exact same guy, with the exact same brother, who's being hung in the exact same way, by the exact same people for the tenth time. To me, this seems just as unrealistic as the woman who cries about her unfaithful husband in the same spot for the whole game.

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 06:43 AM
I know what you mean about there being fetching in II, and my wife made a similar statement when I said I hated the fetching in RDR. To me, there's a difference between the two. In ACII, I'm an assassin, so it makes sense that I'll be doing assassinations, freeing prisoners, beating unfaithful husbands, and stealing uniforms. Am I technically fetching? Yes, but all my fetching has a context and story that makes it interesting. In RDR, very little of it had much story. I think the only one that I really enjoyed was the "get flowers for my wife" who turned out to be dead. That was interesting, but when it said I had to get X-number of bear pelts, I was like, "Hey, didn't I already do this with wolves and cougars?" And none of them had any story other than stores like to buy pelts. I'm not sure if I'm making the difference clear, but to me there is one.

I do see what your saying with random feeling more organic, and I agree with you whole-heartedly. I like the idea of random happenings that I come across, as, like you said, they seem more real. What seems unreal though, is the exact same guy, with the exact same brother, who's being hung in the exact same way, by the exact same people for the tenth time. To me, this seems just as unrealistic as the woman who cries about her unfaithful husband in the same spot for the whole game.
Im sure there`ll be fetching some meat for a Vendor or Medicine for a Doctor, but with such High Amounts ? Maybe not..

Also regarding the random quests, to be honest, Games have limitations, so you can`t really expect to have Millions of NPCs for Millions of quests... At least it`s sometimes different, sometimes its the wife, brother, husband, friend.. sure it may generate the same Model and I understand how that can be ticking, but its the most current engines can handle... Its what I like to call the better of the 2 choices..

Its better to have just 1 Unreal elements than 2

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 06:47 AM
Im sure there`ll be fetching some meat for a Vendor or Medicine for a Doctor, but with such High Amounts ? Maybe not..

Also regarding the random quests, to be honest, Games have limitations, so you can`t really expect to have Millions of NPCs for Millions of quests... At least it`s sometimes different, sometimes its the wife, brother, husband, friend.. sure it may generate the same Model and I understand how that can be ticking, but its the most current engines can handle... Its what I like to call the better of the 2 choices..

Its better to have just 1 Unreal elements than 2

Yeah, I understand the limitations, but I'd rather have ten awesome random events that are unique and interesting that I never see again, than 300 random events of five flavors that I see over and over. Like you've said though, to each their own. We'll know when it comes out and I'll either be happy or bugged.

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 06:51 AM
Yeah, I understand the limitations, but I'd rather have ten awesome random events that are unique and interesting that I never see again, than 300 random events of five flavors that I see over and over. Like you've said though, to each their own. We'll know when it comes out and I'll either be happy or bugged.
5 flavors ? You probably dont navigate the world much:p

Look at this http://reddead.wikia.com/wiki/Random_Encounters

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 07:00 AM
5 flavors ? You probably dont navigate the world much:p

Look at this http://reddead.wikia.com/wiki/Random_Encounters

Just a random number (for random events, oh, I kill myself XD). You know what I mean though. You see the same one over and over. I'd rather do them once, enjoy that once, and never see them again than have them bothering every fifty yards.

Oh, and you need to delete some of your personal messages.

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 07:04 AM
Just a random number (for random events, oh, I kill myself XD). You know what I mean though. You see the same one over and over. I'd rather do them once, enjoy that once, and never see them again than have them bothering every fifty yards.

Oh, and you need to delete some of your personal messages.
Then it IS indeed a Matter of Opinion like you said..

And done;)

Paulsifer42
09-17-2012, 07:07 AM
Then it IS indeed a Matter of Opinion like you said..

And done;)

Yeah, I just don't see why everyone can't see that MY opinion is the right one. XD

Assassin_M
09-17-2012, 07:11 AM
Yeah, I just don't see why everyone can't see that MY opinion is the right one. XD
Right to you maybe..

To me ? Nah not so much:rolleyes:

MT4K
09-17-2012, 09:08 AM
Have they said if you can skip the scene? I didn't mind how it looked, and actually kind of liked it until about the tenth time seeing it. Edit: I just don't need to see it fifty times.

Also, will it be random events like in other AC games (ie, someone needs help and waives at you) or will it be the same "man hanging from a tree on his horse" that I saved about thirty times, and if you don't save him you're bad in some way? Or have they said?

You will likely be able to skip the skinning scene. It would get annoying to see it like you said every single time :). Although from what we can see from the Frontier demo. The scene isn't very long anyway so it probably won't be a big deal.

projectpat06
09-24-2012, 02:34 AM
AC3 is automatically better than Red Dead Redemption because you can swim.

Paulsifer42
09-24-2012, 06:54 AM
You will likely be able to skip the skinning scene. It would get annoying to see it like you said every single time :). Although from what we can see from the Frontier demo. The scene isn't very long anyway so it probably won't be a big deal.

RDR's wasn't that long either, but it was a big deal. :D