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View Full Version : Ideas for a Templar Game: Locations, plots ect.



Celtic Sicillan
09-11-2012, 03:38 AM
How about a new point of view on the templars. We only see the Templars as evil corrupt SOBs because we see them trough the Assassins eyes! Actually the assassins can be seen in a bad light to. If i didnt know the backstory for Ezio and his killing i would see him as a psychopathic anarchist obsessed with killing people in power. The main difference is in the philosophy of the two groups. Both groups want the best for man kind, they just want it through different means. The Templars want peace and they get it by strict control. This doesnt always have to be evil, just strict. But it can also lead to great accomplishments. The assains are the other extreme. They want everyone's freedom to be respected and will take this to the extreem even if it means everyone ripping eachother apart in violent anarchy where might makes right. Both these phillosophyies date back into history and are seen in the contrast between Locke and Hobbes. Now we have seen some evil templars in a few eras and areas of the world. We know that the Templars arent such good guys in Modern day Europe, The American revolution, Renascence Italy, and The crusades. However this leaves a lot of history to cover, and just because certain factions were good in some periods doesn't mean they are good in others. How about ancient China, where a powerfull empire under the Qin untied the provence and raised the standard of living? This strict power could be an example of the good influenced of the Templars. Or how about The Roman Empire, or Charlemagne's Europe, or Peter the Great's Russia. There are many examples of the good influence of a strong central authority, and these would be ideal locations to show a different spin on the Templar Assassin dynamic. The noble Templars would work hard to unify the country for good as corrupt power hungry assassin warlords would try to impeded their gains for self centered purposes. Even the transition from Articles of Confederation to Constitution in the untied states demonstrates this. Under the articles, state militias were assaulting each other in the fledgling country and only strong central rule (a templar ideal) ended up holding the country together. Even modern times, such as the more structured war time economies of Britain and the USA would be fun romping grounds to be a good Templar. Over all we need both belife systems to balance each other out in order to create the best society. With just Assassin influence it would be survival of the fittest anarachy, and with just templars we would be in a totalitarianism state.


Ideas:

Templar Agents in ancient China trying to unite the provinces under one banner.

the templars behind the rise of the roman empire

Templars unifying France with Charlemagne or Unifying Germany with Bismark

Templar Civil War, with evil templars supporting Hitler and the Nazies, and good Templars working in the controlled wartime economies of Britain and USA. This could be a cool spin off of the AC concept with secret agents as the modern versions of past agents. could be switched to first person for guns, but remain the same concepts of stealth so vitalized in the AC multiplayer

LoyalACFan
09-11-2012, 04:49 AM
I still don't want a Templar game...

anik_lc
09-11-2012, 05:39 AM
Screw Templars.

Assassin_M
09-11-2012, 06:46 AM
Screw Paragraphs..

Seriously dude..

playassassins1
09-11-2012, 08:19 AM
I still don't think a templar game would work... If they want a Templar game, they can't just call it Assassin's Creed. If they would call it that, the Assassins would win anyway.... And most templars didn't want to help or something, they were just bad by default. I mean, in AC I, you could clearly see how Templars were just Evil, not because seeing them from an Assassin's perspective, but actually seeing what they did to people... Taking them as slaves etc.

They would have to rework everything, So, if they're ever making a game like this, it wouldn't be anytime soon.

HisSpiritLives
09-11-2012, 09:08 AM
I still don't think a templar game would work... If they want a Templar game, they can't just call it Assassin's Creed. If they would call it that, the Assassins would win anyway.... And most templars didn't want to help or something, they were just bad by default. I mean, in AC I, you could clearly see how Templars were just Evil, not because seeing them from an Assassin's perspective, but actually seeing what they did to people... Taking them as slaves etc.

They would have to rework everything, So, if they're ever making a game like this, it wouldn't be anytime soon.

Yeah,the point is that Ubisoft didnt invented Templars as ,,bad guys,, we all know that is truth so Templar game would be horrible and you cant show Templars in other light .We all are AC fans we should hate Templars :D

Ork3n
09-11-2012, 09:23 AM
I still don't think a templar game would work... If they want a Templar game, they can't just call it Assassin's Creed. If they would call it that, the Assassins would win anyway.... And most templars didn't want to help or something, they were just bad by default. I mean, in AC I, you could clearly see how Templars were just Evil, not because seeing them from an Assassin's perspective, but actually seeing what they did to people... Taking them as slaves etc.

They would have to rework everything, So, if they're ever making a game like this, it wouldn't be anytime soon.

Why can't templar win? What if desmond save the worls but templars send the satillite? Wouldn't templar have won over assassins in these part of the plot?

I'm also very sceptic about how would ubisoft handle the plot (templars vs assassins) with a templar ancestor but i wouldn't hate the game only because i play as a templar...
But more important then the plot, it would be the gameplay.... how would it be entretaining go play as Robert de Sables? I don't think it would be that funny.

Not either assassins or templars are the good guys, it's like facism and communism... extremes are bad. We only played in the assassins side but if you read the letters from ac2 (umberto, vieri) you would notice that they are not just bad guys, they have their reasons to be so.

De Filosoof
09-11-2012, 09:44 AM
The ignorance....i love it.

You know the templars are based on real life corrupt organisations right?
Nah, you probably don't...

De Filosoof
09-11-2012, 09:49 AM
With just Assassin influence it would be survival of the fittest anarachy, and with just templars we would be in a totalitarianism state.


Yeah, that's a pretty black and white view my friend. The assassins aren't anarchists. Maybe you played batman games for too long.

Oh and btw great idea! I would like to support Hitler in a game! That wouldn't feel wrong at all :).
Please let me kill and rape some slaves while we're at it!
Aaah and can i please slaughter some native-American kids?....Please?...all we want is some power and money....


*sigh* I will post this again because it looks like you people really don't understand the developer's reasons to make such a game.

ACII had the Glyphs which provided background material on how the Templars have manipulated history. Brotherhoodhas the Clusters, which took the conspiracy to modern day: the Bush administration, deepwater horizon oil (http://forums.ubi.com/#) spill (http://www.fastcompany.com/1703753/hardcore-history-and-modern-conspiracy-behind-scenes-writer-assassins-creed-brotherhood#), and the Supreme Court ruling on corporate donations for elections are all featured.
I wanted to speak about now. I'd never really seen a game (http://forums.ubi.com/#) do that, really bring the real world into the game. Photos from the Internet taken this year in reality. As creators, I feel it is our duty to say something to players, to engage in a conversation about our world. I believe that today's world is being hijacked by selfish agendas and many politicians/corporations believe that people can be convinced to do anything through propaganda and advertising. One of the major themes of Assassin's Creed has always been to encourage players to think, to see the truth rather than sit back passively and allow others to control them. I wanted to bring that discussion into people's living rooms.

The clusters infer that corporations have too much power in the America. And the story with the Borgias infer that religion can be destructive. Would you consider the game activist (http://forums.ubi.com/#)?
It really has to do with the Assassin philosophy: to allow people to look at the world around them in a new way and question it, to give them the freedom to choose. A lot of times in life, others want us to just do something for their own reasons, without questioning it. We try to encourage people to ask "Why?"

Ork3n
09-11-2012, 10:02 AM
De Filosooof why you can only think of killing slaves and kids or native-americans have to do with gaining power? Why do you think templars want power? To be in control? NO, they want it to rule the mankind without having any kind of problem. However, asssassin's KILL to "free" the people. The problem is that the world would be a chaos if assassins win the fight.

You have a very wrong idea about the templars. They are or are intended to be ppl with good intentions and BETTER understand of the reality then the assassins. It's just imposible to archieve peace with full freedoom.

Robert de Sables was a good person. However, Borgias were not a family made out of good persons.
And you don't have to be a templar to be a bad person, Richard, Saladim and Ahmed's brother were bad people, and they weren't templars.

Assassin_M
09-11-2012, 10:05 AM
De Filosooof why you can only think of killing slaves and kids or native-americans have to do with gaining power? Why do you think templars want power? To be in control? NO, they want it to rule the mankind without having any kind of problem. However, asssassin's KILL to "free" the people. The problem is that the world would be a chaos if assassins win the fight.

You have a very wrong idea about the templars. They are or are intended to be ppl with good intentions and BETTER understand of the reality then the assassins. It's just imposible to archieve peace with full freedoom.
What Gives Templars the right to raise themselves above others ? Why are THEY suited to be leaders ? Of this world of theirs ?? Templars kill too... So what makes the Templars better ? nothing...

I have no doubt that the Assassins have a somewhat flawed outlook, but so do the Templars.. Both Kill, Both Manipulate to an extent, and yet both share common, noble goals..

Legendz54
09-11-2012, 10:08 AM
I don't want a templar game...

Ork3n
09-11-2012, 10:08 AM
What Gives Templars the right to raise themselves above others ? Why are THEY suited to be leaders ? Of this world of theirs ?? Templars kill too... So what makes the Templars better ? nothing...

i've not said they were better, i said they are not bad only because they want power. They want a good thing, peace, however we do not agree with their way of thinking, that doesn't make them bad. I still think Robert de Sable was a better person then Al-Muhalim.

Assassin_M
09-11-2012, 10:10 AM
i've not said they were better, i said they are not bad only because they want power. They want a good thing, peace, however we do not agree with their way of thinking, that doesn't make them bad. I still think Robert de Sable was a better person then Al-Muhalim.
Oh that ? Ok that I agree with, you must remember, however; that both were templars..Also, The Assassins fight for Peace

Ork3n
09-11-2012, 11:52 AM
Oh that ? Ok that I agree with, you must remember, however; that both were templars..Also, The Assassins fight for Peace

I don't think Assassins fight for peace. Assassin's fight for freedom, Templars fights for peace.

playassassins1
09-11-2012, 12:10 PM
I don't think Assassins fight for peace. Assassin's fight for freedom, Templars fights for peace.

So, Assassins don't want peace..... okay...

Legendz54
09-11-2012, 12:10 PM
I don't think Assassins fight for peace. Assassin's fight for freedom, Templars fights for peace.

They both fight for peace, Just different methods, Assassins peace and freedom, Templars peace and control.

Slayer_WTF
09-11-2012, 12:16 PM
It 's sad to see people who do not want a radical change in the game. Do you like play as an Assassin just because it's cool? The Templars are jinxed or what? Are you afraid of not being able to do all those cool things? Meh.

An AC with a protagonist Templar would be cool. This would bring the player to think about who they are really good.

POP1Fan
09-11-2012, 01:16 PM
It 's sad to see people who do not want a radical change in the game. Do you like play as an Assassin just because it's cool? The Templars are jinxed or what? Are you afraid of not being able to do all those cool things? Meh.

An AC with a protagonist Templar would be cool. This would bring the player to think about who they are really good.

No. A Templar game separate from AC whitin the same Universe with a Templar protagonist would be cool.

De Filosoof
09-11-2012, 01:23 PM
I will post one last video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpPJtPwdk8k

You'd better wake-up bud :)

Peace out.

Slayer_WTF
09-11-2012, 01:30 PM
No. A Templar game separate from AC whitin the same Universe with a Templar protagonist would be cool.

It would not be the same thing.

POP1Fan
09-11-2012, 01:33 PM
It would not be the same thing.

And it shouldn't. Templars are Templars, Assassins are Assassins.

kudos17
09-11-2012, 01:43 PM
It's like only a few people here get that the Templars and Assassins aren't black and white, evil and good... did you even play the first game?

The Templars seek control for peace - slavery, mind manipulation, oppression. Yes, that's bad. But they're doing it for a noble reason. And the Assassins? How are they better? Sure they fight for free will of the people, but isn't that extremely naive? Free people means free choices, and that means plenty of people will still have the power to do bad or continue the Templar ways. So how do the Assassins answer that? They kill the offenders. They kill them for believing different.

Neither side is right, guys. We've been biased toward the Assassins obviously, but that doesn't mean they're good. In AC1, all the assassination targets were doing what they truly believed was right, even if the means were shaky. In AC2 and AC:B however, the Borgias were very much the "bad guys", not because they were Templars, but because they were part of the period of time where the Templars lost their way, and most big players were only in it for themselves, not for "world peace". In Revelations, the lines were a little more gray again.

De Filosoof
09-11-2012, 01:50 PM
It's like only a few people here get that the Templars and Assassins aren't black and white, evil and good... did you even play the first game?

The Templars seek control for peace - slavery, mind manipulation, oppression. Yes, that's bad. But they're doing it for a noble reason. And the Assassins? How are they better? Sure they fight for free will of the people, but isn't that extremely naive? Free people means free choices, and that means plenty of people will still have the power to do bad or continue the Templar ways. So how do the Assassins answer that? They kill the offenders. They kill them for believing different.


By creating a different and healthy system.
It's the system that creates corruption, don't you understand?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w

Oh, and for the people who don't know the filmmaker Peter Joseph and want to judge him because he points out some controversial subjects, here's an interview with him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw9IHJNB75E

Too long to watch? Heavy subjects? Not interesting? Fine, but don't think you know how this world operates or how things can be different if you don't have an open mind or don't want to investigate stuff and search for new info.

Umbra_Blade
09-11-2012, 01:57 PM
Assassins fight for the people to be the "shepherds of their own civilisation", this means that people live their own lives in their own way, without being told what to do by an authority. Essentially for every person to have free-will. This dates back to the war with the first civilisation. The people who were immune to the pieces of eden (mostly the beginning of the assassins) wanted to be free of any power that would seek to control them, as they had not beaten TWCB (their "parents") to just be controlled by someone else.

Others (holding the Templar ideal) saw that peace was impossible without a controlling power, flying straight in the face of what the assassins wanted. The templars saw that humanity was flawed and petty, it would always seek more power to satisfy its never ending greed for it. This would lead to wars between people, so the templars, to avoid this would need to take control of the minds of the humans so they could 'override' their nature, removing their free-will.

So all in all, templars want peace but through the removal of free-will. Assassins want free-will, regardless of the consequences, whether it means world peace or world war. Obviously the assassins don't want war but they would rather people die free than live under control. That is what i got from the games and other things in the AC universe. As has been said before, both want good and noble things for humanity, but both do so by dark means (a.k.a. killing, bribing, threatening, etc.)

Ork3n
09-11-2012, 02:58 PM
As has been said before, both want good and noble things for humanity, but both do so by dark means (a.k.a. killing, bribing, threatening, etc.)

I thought you were going to say that both victory would be bad for people :p
But it was a good post indeed :D

SixKeys
09-11-2012, 03:00 PM
By creating a different and healthy system.
It's the system that creates corruption, don't you understand?

I was almost taking you seriously until you started referencing Zeitgeist.

I still think a Templar game could be a good "dumping ground", if you will, for ideas the devs might have that don't fit into the assassin games. Many people thought the Den Defense and Desmond's Story segments in ACR weren't bad ideas per se, they just didn't feel like Assassin's Creed. The devs could experiment with all sorts of things using the excuse of "it's an Abstergo product, so it doesn't have to be 100% unbiased". They could make an RPG, RTS or action game where the story is told from a Templar perspective.
Who here wouldn't want to see The Fall comic turned into a real game? Daniel Cross went over to the Templar side and now seems to completely believe in their ideology. He can relive the memories of his assassin ancestor and knows exactly what they fought for and why, yet he's a Templar at heart. It's almost like having a close family member with different political leanings. You still care about them, you just can't agree on how the world should be led.

ToniTorsi
09-11-2012, 04:34 PM
I will post one last video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpPJtPwdk8k

You'd better wake-up bud :)

Peace out.

What the....

You're taking things way to far. It's just a video game. You should stop being so superstitious.

ToniTorsi
09-11-2012, 04:48 PM
I was almost taking you seriously until you started referencing Zeitgeist.

I still think a Templar game could be a good "dumping ground", if you will, for ideas the devs might have that don't fit into the assassin games. Many people thought the Den Defense and Desmond's Story segments in ACR weren't bad ideas per se, they just didn't feel like Assassin's Creed. The devs could experiment with all sorts of things using the excuse of "it's an Abstergo product, so it doesn't have to be 100% unbiased". They could make an RPG, RTS or action game where the story is told from a Templar perspective.
Who here wouldn't want to see The Fall comic turned into a real game? Daniel Cross went over to the Templar side and now seems to completely believe in their ideology. He can relive the memories of his assassin ancestor and knows exactly what they fought for and why, yet he's a Templar at heart. It's almost like having a close family member with different political leanings. You still care about them, you just can't agree on how the world should be led.

I read about Daniel in Wiki. He was half mad.

That in itself, speaks volumes.

Regardless...I would want a female lead for a more different approach to a number of things. She'd have different playing style, fighting style, persona and objectives.

I feel like, with a Templar story, things could be far more engaging and jaw dropping for the character and for the player and nonetheless...more brutal.

There would be more in depth analysis to grand historic events and such. How it started, how it was executed. A lot of stuff can be made if its pulled off efficiently.
That's why I find it compelling for Ubisoft Montreal to consider it.

Furthermore, instead of Ezio and the Apple. The Templar's were in possession of several pieces of Eden. Perhaps, the character and the Sword of Eden would be the ideal thing to keep on sharing light on how powerful and lethal these weapons were and the chaos they caused.

CalgaryJay
09-11-2012, 05:21 PM
I don't think a Templar game would make sense within the AC universe, because Ubi's clearly drawn it as "assassins=good, Templars=bad", so to suddenly flip it around would just make it confusing. But over-all a Templar protagonist game would be interesting, especially if you set it close to their origins.

As rich/corrupt as they may have gotten, the Templars did have noble origins. I know their role was a lot more complicated than what I'm about to say, but basically their creation was to merely protect Christians from bandits while making the pilgrimage to the Holy Land, and swore a life of poverty in the process. That's not noble?

LoyalACFan
09-11-2012, 05:24 PM
I don't think a Templar game would make sense within the AC universe, because Ubi's clearly drawn it as "assassins=good, Templars=bad", so to suddenly flip it around would just make it confusing. But over-all a Templar protagonist game would be interesting, especially if you set it close to their origins.

As rich/corrupt as they may have gotten, the Templars did have noble origins. I know their role was a lot more complicated than what I'm about to say, but basically their creation was to merely protect Christians from bandits while making the pilgrimage to the Holy Land, and swore a life of poverty in the process. That's not noble?

In the AC universe, that's not what happened. Factually, you're right, but AC tells us that the Templars were founded by Cain, after he killed his brother to take his POE so he could control its power on his own.

CalgaryJay
09-11-2012, 05:29 PM
True, yet another reason why it wouldn't work within the AC universe. I just meant the potential for a separate game in general could be there, even if it wasn't Ubisoft.

SixKeys
09-11-2012, 05:34 PM
Regardless...I would want a female lead for a more different approach to a number of things. She'd have different playing style, fighting style, persona and objectives.

To be honest, while I wouldn't be opposed to a female assassin in the main AC series (in fact, I'm pretty excited about Liberation), I will say that making the lead character of a Templar spinoff a female might be a bad move. People in the games and movie industry tend to draw the wrong conclusions sometimes. If the game turned out to be unsuccessful, they would blame it on the fact that most of the audience was male and therefore must have hated the game because they had to play as a female character, instead of thinking maybe it had something to do with the game mechanics. Kind of like how Catwoman (the movie) very nearly managed to convince everyone in Hollywood that the movie failed because "people just don't care about comic book movies anymore".
Having a female lead in Liberation is a more safe move because AC has already established itself as a good brand, people know what to expect and you're still playing as an assassin, aka "the good guys". A Templar game, while innovative in other ways, might have to play certain conventions on the safe side. That includes a white, male protagonist.


Furthermore, instead of Ezio and the Apple. The Templar's were in possession of several pieces of Eden. Perhaps, the character and the Sword of Eden would be the ideal thing to keep on sharing light on how powerful and lethal these weapons were and the chaos they caused.

Agreed. I'm honestly surprised and a little frustrated that the AC games so far have concentrated so much on the Apple and almost completely ignored the rest of the PoEs. The only other one we've seen used in the games is the Staff. The same PoE was used as a plot device in The Fall comic. In ACR instead of discovering a new PoE, we got two Apples. I want to know more about the Shroud, the Sword, the Crystal Skull or something else we haven't heard of yet.