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adarwinter
09-07-2012, 01:07 PM
three points in this thread:

1) i seriously hope the AI in AC3 be more resilient this time around. meaning that they will be able to block, dodge or even counter connor. from the demo's we've seen the AI looks very simple minded - they just take it. there were the bigger brutes that could counter connor but they were the rare few. it kinda looks like the normal enemies will be sort of like in batman arkham games - they can attack but that's it.

2) what ruined AC for me was the lack of challenge and a LOT of that lack of challenge came from the fact that the last health diamond always regenerated so all you had to do when brought down to the last health segment was to avoid damage for 2 seconds until it regenerated, so the amount of health ezio had was irrelevant since i, as a player, could survive an entire combat on that last health diamond.
do we know if connor will regenerate health in the middle of combat like in all other AC games?

3) in previous AC games you could hold the block button and remain pretty much invulnerable. especially in AC:B and AC2. not in AC:R and AC1, which had a defense breakers which was nice. in AC3 it kinda looks like there is NO blocking stance whatsoever. like the combat is more like sleeping dogs and batman games - you can only counter. is that true?
p.s. - i'd prefer it that way.

sorry if these topics were already discussed. :\

IceHot100
09-07-2012, 01:24 PM
Some of those things have been discussed before. No, the health won't regenarate when you are in the middle of combat. I would say the main thing is to be stealthy but it just lost it's main part (stealth after AC2. But the enemies will be definately harder to defeat this time. And, don't forget, it's the 18th century..guards have guns. I know they will only shoot once and then do meelee combat. But it'll be harder to dfend yourself from bullets, if you don't have a human shield...

MT4K
09-07-2012, 01:25 PM
Combat will be harder in AC3. They are saying that they have tried to make it where anybody could win the fights, but they will probably take a few hits and not look awesome. To make it look smooth, fluid, and easy are the challenges to the combat system. Whether they succeed in this or not will only be known on release :p.

Connor will not regenerate health during combat. Only when you are outside combat will his health regenrate :).

You can not block in AC3 :D.

hoganshero
09-07-2012, 01:35 PM
1) Alex has already stated that there are like 15 different arc-types for the enemies and you have to deal with them all differently.

2) health will begin to regen only after Connor exits combat

3) Alex also addressed this there will be a counter system that has a slow mo effect as you counter and you have a short time to decide if you are just dodgeing attack, countering or disarming(may be more options than that like throwing and such)

the answer to some of your questions are answered by alex starting at about 2:40. and the wilderness gameplay does address your concerns more. also the comic-con Q&A people ask some of your same questions.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGcTtv1P-BA&feature=BFa&list=SPB08C329A11AEA33D&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCw BULZDtfZw%26list%3DSPB08C329A11AEA33D%26index%3D6% 26feature%3Dplpp_video%26oref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252 Fwww.youtube.com%252Fplaylist%253Flist%253DPLB08C3 29A11AEA33D%2526feature%253Dg-user-a%26has_verified%3D1&has_verified=1

playassassins1
09-07-2012, 01:40 PM
oooo. You can't block in ACIII. This will make the casuals look bad when playing AC III.

it'll be like this for them: 1. get into a fight. 2. get hit several times. 3. button mashing. 4. get hit several times. and so on...

on topic: Like everyone else said, you can't regenerate health in combat, and you won't have any medicine, so it's just purely about waiting to get your health up again.
And I think the AI has just been dumbed down, to fit demo's. I can be wrong though.

BBALive
09-07-2012, 01:41 PM
Health doesn't regenerate in the middle of combat, and no, you can't turtle anymore. We won't be able to tell whether or not the AI has been improved, and whether or not enemies will be able to block/dodge/counter your attacks effectively until the game is released.

Soulid_Snake
09-07-2012, 02:52 PM
You can not block in AC3 :D.

Seriously? Blocking is a fundamental mechanism of combat!

corbinmahieu
09-07-2012, 02:59 PM
Combat will be harder in AC3. They are saying that they have tried to make it where anybody could win the fights, but they will probably take a few hits and not look awesome. To make it look smooth, fluid, and easy are the challenges to the combat system. Whether they succeed in this or not will only be known on release :p.

Connor will not regenerate health during combat. Only when you are outside combat will his health regenrate :).

You can not block in AC3 :D.

Only when you are outside combat will his health regenrate ---> In de Boston DEMO your health immediately gets full.. just a few secs after you ''don't'' hit anybody ( even if guards are after you )
I hope this was just for the DEMO and that you will have to wait a min or 2 before you health goes back ''full'' ..... or else the ''no potion''-idea has almost no real effect.

MT4K
09-07-2012, 03:23 PM
Only when you are outside combat will his health regenrate ---> In de Boston DEMO your health immediately gets full.. just a few secs after you ''don't'' hit anybody ( even if guards are after you )
I hope this was just for the DEMO and that you will have to wait a min or 2 before you health goes back ''full'' ..... or else the ''no potion''-idea has almost no real effect.

Pretty sure it was just for demo purposes. They have said numerous times that health won't regen while in combat in the game.

corbinmahieu
09-07-2012, 03:31 PM
Pretty sure it was just for demo purposes. They have said numerous times that health won't regen while in combat in the game.

Yeah! But technically he was 'outside' combat. ( guards were running towards him (before he uses the ''monkey bars'')
-------> His health just went extreme fast up!!!!!!!?.

Source :
In the boston demo were connor almost dies after 2 hits from a brute ( can't find the link .... )

-------> cause extreme fast regeneration makes to game easy.
I hope it will take a few secs before your health goes back to 'full'.

corbinmahieu
09-07-2012, 03:37 PM
PLUS You really need to watch a FEW different BOSTON DEMO's. After connor gets HIT.... he slowly gets health! .. while doing counter attacks!? ( But maybe it was just DEMO GOD MODE )
--> But this isn't what i ment by the ''extreme fast regeneration after battle''. It's just something i saw.. while searching for de BOSTON DEMO were connor loses half of his health.

AnthonyA85
09-07-2012, 03:44 PM
I was hoping, that as far as health was concerned, that Connor would visually refelct the fact that he's badly injured when his health bar gets very low, and he looses the ability to free-run and fight effectively (Like in ACB and ACR when Ezio was badly injured at the start of both games, but sadly wasn't a regular thing), that would give players even more incentive to be careful with their health.

But sadly, i'm expecting that detail to have been overlooked. Again.

corbinmahieu
09-07-2012, 03:46 PM
I was hoping, that as far as health was concerned, that Connor would visually refelct the fact that he's badly injured when his health bar gets very low, and he looses the ability to free-run and fight effectively (Like in ACB and ACR when Ezio was badly injured at the start of both games, but sadly wasn't a regular thing), that would give players even more incentive to be careful with their health.

But sadly, i'm expecting that detail to have been overlooked. Again.

That would be cool?! realistic and it would give something ''extra'' to the gameplay!

LoyalACFan
09-07-2012, 03:47 PM
I was hoping, that as far as health was concerned, that Connor would visually refelct the fact that he's badly injured when his health bar gets very low, and he looses the ability to free-run and fight effectively (Like in ACB and ACR when Ezio was badly injured at the start of both games, but sadly wasn't a regular thing), that would give players even more incentive to be careful with their health.

But sadly, i'm expecting that detail to have been overlooked. Again.

I'm pretty sure they've returned to the concept that "health" is synchronization. I.E. if Desmond screws up and allows Connor to take damage, he loses synchronization because Connor didn't actually get hurt then. So it wouldn't make sense for him to be limping around after getting hit.

adarwinter
09-07-2012, 05:22 PM
1) Alex has already stated that there are like 15 different arc-types for the enemies and you have to deal with them all differently.

2) health will begin to regen only after Connor exits combat

3) Alex also addressed this there will be a counter system that has a slow mo effect as you counter and you have a short time to decide if you are just dodgeing attack, countering or disarming(may be more options than that like throwing and such)

the answer to some of your questions are answered by alex starting at about 2:40. and the wilderness gameplay does address your concerns more. also the comic-con Q&A people ask some of your same questions.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGcTtv1P-BA&feature=BFa&list=SPB08C329A11AEA33D&oref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DCw BULZDtfZw%26list%3DSPB08C329A11AEA33D%26index%3D6% 26feature%3Dplpp_video%26oref%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252 Fwww.youtube.com%252Fplaylist%253Flist%253DPLB08C3 29A11AEA33D%2526feature%253Dg-user-a%26has_verified%3D1&has_verified=1


thank you everyone for participating in my quarry.

hoganshero- that's some useful info.
i alread remember them saying that health will not regenerate during combat but no video they've shown supported that statement so i didnt know what to believe.
it will not surprise me at all if it will work just like AC:B and AC:R - where 95% of the health wont regen, but the last bit would.

i also liked playing AC:R without upgrading my armor one bit and i even left the only armor piece broken, so theoretically i had very little health, but the amount of innitial health i had never mattered because of the last regenerating chunk which i constantly survived on.
this made me think - actually in many combats i lost all my health besides that last chunk so in theory i should have died many times if the last chunk wouldnt regen. if the health in AC3 will never regen when in combat than i would assume combat will actually be even EASIER so connor doesnt reach that last bit of health and dies.
and it kinda looks like the combat will be easy since like B:AC enemies dont block and you can move from one enemy to another, but UNLIKE B:AC the enemies die from one hit (the normal weeker ones at least) so combat can be just a few seconds of connor bouncing from one guy to the next killing everyone with one hit. kinda like ACB and ACR.

that's concerning, IMO.

and i also read their statement that everyone can win but not everyone can win with style. another concerning statement. i love the feeling of tention in combat, like when the combat is over you think: "phew. that was close. if i wasnt so **** good i would have died". THAT"S the best feeling i can possible get in action games.
in AC games the feeling was always like: "well. i just killed 20 enemies and i fought like $hit. this AI is really helpless".
it doesnt look like this will change in AC3 though.

however this brings in mind a fourth question:
4) did UBI say if connor's armor can be upgraded?
i hope it CAN so i can chose NOT to upgrade it if the game is too easy.

about the blocking thing - in the boston video it does look like connor is blocking and not countering, unless there is a counter without returning an attack.
once combat begins the very first time connor is attacked he blocks (and then grabbed from behind). and in 03:17 it looks like he blocked and then did normal attacks.

am i wrong?

hoganshero- where did u get the info about different types of countering? like countering and then grabbing or anything like that?did you learn this only from the "frontier" demo where connor is fighting the guards in the snow or is there deeper info on this?

About the AI: what i hated about B:AC's AI was that each AI type only had very very limited amount of reactions - you got those wo only attacked but wouldnt block. those who would ALWAYS block (so u need to cape stun them), those who could never be attacked form the front but always from behind etc etc. i understand the reason for this - it was meant so as batman u could plan your attack and never get interrupted so u can continue the combos, but in AC it was different with AI that can actually sometimes block and sometimes not. sometimes they dodged and sometimes they didnt. they were less predictable. less.... binary. im fearing that in AC3 the AI will take a turn towards B:AC's AI, which fits less in AC3 and takes away the feeling of needing to react to the AI defending themselves. there is no tention in fighting the big brute guy if u know that if u do a particular move that you can kill him 100% of the time...
anyone else thinks like me?


5) another question - are there swords in the game? for connor or the enemies? i remember seeing a DLC which is a sword for connor, but i wonder if in the game there will be swords too. the combat seems to rely so heavily on the axe that i cant imagine UBI doing a new set of animations for a secondary weapon like a sword....

pacmanate
09-07-2012, 05:27 PM
Combat will be harder in AC3. They are saying that they have tried to make it where anybody could win the fights, but they will probably take a few hits and not look awesome. To make it look smooth, fluid, and easy are the challenges to the combat system. Whether they succeed in this or not will only be known on release :p.

Connor will not regenerate health during combat. Only when you are outside combat will his health regenrate :).

You can not block in AC3 :D.

So you can't block... but I guess you can still dodge right? I haven't seen it in the demos where dodge is assigned to the X button as that is the break defense button. If you can't dodge either that would be silly.


Yeah! But technically he was outside'' combat. ( guards were running towards him (before he uses the ''monkey bars'') His health just went extreme fast up!!!!!!!?.
-------> IN THE BOSTON DEMO WERE CONNOR ALMOST DIES AFTER 2 HITS FROM A BRUTE ( can't find the link .... )
I hope it will take a few secs before your health goes back to ''full''. cause extreme fast regeneration makes to game easy. ( while in ACR i liked to play with a broken armor.. so my health stayed low... it felt like a challenge not to die )

1. Big font text
2. Bold
3. Caps Locking
4. Italics

What is wrong with you?

corbinmahieu
09-07-2012, 05:35 PM
So you can't block... but I guess you can still dodge right? I haven't seen it in the demos where dodge is assigned to the X button as that is the break defense button. If you can't dodge either that would be silly.



1. Big font text
2. Bold
3. Caps Locking
4. Italics

What is wrong with you?

I've cleaned it up! Just for you ! I was hoping you would read the words rather then looking at how the font is misused.

corbinmahieu
09-07-2012, 05:48 PM
thank you everyone for participating in my quarry.

hoganshero- that's some useful info.
i alread remember them saying that health will not regenerate during combat but no video they've shown supported that statement so i didnt know what to believe.
it will not surprise me at all if it will work just like AC:B and AC:R - where 95% of the health wont regen, but the last bit would.

i also liked playing AC:R without upgrading my armor one bit and i even left the only armor piece broken, so theoretically i had very little health, but the amount of innitial health i had never mattered because of the last regenerating chunk which i constantly survived on.
this made me think - actually in many combats i lost all my health besides that last chunk so in theory i should have died many times if the last chunk wouldnt regen. if the health in AC3 will never regen when in combat than i would assume combat will actually be even EASIER so connor doesnt reach that last bit of health and dies.
and it kinda looks like the combat will be easy since like B:AC enemies dont block and you can move from one enemy to another, but UNLIKE B:AC the enemies die from one hit (the normal weeker ones at least) so combat can be just a few seconds of connor bouncing from one guy to the next killing everyone with one hit. kinda like ACB and ACR.


Dope! Finally a fan with the same feelings about the combat !...
That's why I was hoping for a '' Hard mode '' In AC3. So hardcore players could find the challenge and tension of fighting something bigger/harder.
Plus It would make players use stealth more! and It would give a replay value to the game.

Anyway.. since Harde mode is out of the question.
I'm trying to read all the news about the combat in AC3. and I don't know what to believe. Cause people are saying that the boston demo was playing in connor god mode.
So? How does the combat 'really' go !?

PS. I really liked the frontier combat, where connor ''blocked'' the attacks before doing a counter, where in the Boston demo he just uses the AC:R / AC:B chain counters.

MT4K
09-07-2012, 05:54 PM
So you can't block... but I guess you can still dodge right? I haven't seen it in the demos where dodge is assigned to the X button as that is the break defense button. If you can't dodge either that would be silly.

Yes you can still dodge. Not sure if it works exactly the same way as previous games or if it's part of the counter system now, but yeah Connor can dodge still. He dodges the wolf in the Frontier demo from E3, and as far as i remember they have said that fighting animals works pretty similar to the way you fight Humans :p. Unless that's changed since then.

I could of course be remembering things wrongly, but i am pretty sure they did say that at one point. Of course they migh thave said otherwise since that i just don't remember so don't take what i say as 100% :p. Only Human after all.

If only i could have access to AC3 right now and answer all questions hehe (Well, not all questions :p).

De Filosoof
09-07-2012, 06:15 PM
Huh, we can't block?! Why not?...

MT4K
09-07-2012, 06:16 PM
Huh, we can't block?! Why not?...

To prevent people just standing there blocking all the attacks forever or "turtling".

De Filosoof
09-07-2012, 06:21 PM
To prevent people just standing there blocking all the attacks forever or "turtling".

So how do counter attacks work, just with the press of 1 button? I personally think that would suck, just like removing the ability to block, i liked that in previous AC games.

Does this mean the combat is more like a quicktime event but without the buttons you have to press appearing on the screen?

dxsxhxcx
09-07-2012, 06:27 PM
So how do counter attacks work, just with the press of 1 button? Personally i think that would suck, just like removing the ability to block, i liked that in previous AC games.

I believe it'll be similar to the previous games, with the only difference that if you fail you'll be hit...

MT4K
09-07-2012, 06:27 PM
So how do counter attacks work, just with the press of 1 button? I personally think that would suck, just like removing the ability to block, i liked that in previous AC games.

Well as far as i can remember it's like what somebody said above... When you counter you get options to do different things, but i really don't know.


I believe it'll be similar to the previous games, with the only difference that if you fail you'll be hit...

This seems likely. I mean the enemy attack has to go somewhere and if you can't block and you fail to dodge or whatever... i guess it means getting hit :D.

Umbra_Blade
09-07-2012, 06:33 PM
So how do counter attacks work, just with the press of 1 button? I personally think that would suck, just like removing the ability to block, i liked that in previous AC games.

Same as before I think, with just the loss of being in a constant blocking position. I like the removal of blocking, as it made it way too easy to mow your way through an unlimited amount of guards, I like that Ubisoft are taking some notes from Batman Arkham City, as anyone could fight the enemies, but only the skilful could make it look so easy and fluent. Also when in Large groups you had to keep your eyes on nearly everyone attacking you (when playing on hard mode) to be able to counter, meaning the more enemies you faced the more complicated things became, much like it would be in the real world, instead of holding down a button and blocking every single attack that comes your way, regardless of where it is from.
I hope the enemies will be similar to the Janisarries in AC:R, as they wouldn't often be easy to kill in one hit, and if fighting more than say 3, they could make life pretty difficult for you, plus they were able to counter your own attacks.

dxsxhxcx
09-07-2012, 06:35 PM
IMO instead of remove blocking they should have added the ability the guards had to break our defense like in AC1 and make them do that more often, but let's see how this new system works, I hope the slow motion "window" someone talked about in the previous page isn't too big...

De Filosoof
09-07-2012, 06:37 PM
IMO instead of remove blocking they should have added the ability the guards had to break our defense like in AC1 and make them do that more often...

Yeah, i'd like that :).

dxsxhxcx
09-07-2012, 06:40 PM
Yeah, i'd like that :).

to be frank I never understood why that was removed... :p

De Filosoof
09-07-2012, 06:49 PM
to be frank I never understood why that was removed... :p

Me neither, maybe the casual game testers complained that it made the game "too difficult" or maybe the develepment team thought it ruined the flow of the game.

dxsxhxcx
09-07-2012, 06:58 PM
Me neither, maybe the casual game testers complained that it made the game "too difficult" or maybe the develepment team thought it ruined the flow of the game.

what ruins the fluidity of combat are the guards that instead of attack us prefer to wait until we kill them... it used to take "hours" for a guard attack us in AC1 sometimes, this changed a little in the next games, but IMO it was still a problem

De Filosoof
09-07-2012, 07:01 PM
what ruins the fluidity of combat are the guards that instead of attack us prefer to wait until we kill them... it used to take "hours" for a guard attack us in AC1 sometimes, this changed a little in the next games, but IMO it was still a problem

Indeed. Well i guess that problem has been solved this time around.
The fluidity of the combat in AC3 looks really good. I hope the gameplay still feels good and addictive, not like some kind of quicktime event.

People can say about the combat from previous AC games what they want but it was pretty darn addictive to slaughter a group of guards in the streets.

adarwinter
09-08-2012, 11:44 AM
Indeed. Well i guess that problem has been solved this time around.
The fluidity of the combat in AC3 looks really good. I hope the gameplay still feels good and addictive, not like some kind of quicktime event.

People can say about the combat from previous AC games what they want but it was pretty darn addictive to slaughter a group of guards in the streets.

no doubt. i really really enjoyed the fresh take on melee combat when i played AC1 but AC2 ruined the balance along a slew of new mechanics when they removed the defence break and the power attacks and the requirement for careful counter timing.

i hope AC3 will re-balance combat and make it deep. i dont want to be able to turtle behind the block button (which seems like the case with the new counter system a-la sleeping dogs and batman games) and i want enemies that do more than just die in 1 hit and barely block or counter.


anyways, i had a long post with a couple of questions that got lost in the shuffle of somewhat off topic comments so im re-posting it with a hope for some answers and thoughts:


thank you everyone for participating in my quarry.


hoganshero- that's some useful info in your post.
i alread remember them saying that health will not regenerate during combat but no video they've shown supported that statement so i didnt know what to believe.
it will not surprise me at all if it will work just like AC:B and AC:R - where 95% of the health wont regen, but the last bit would.


i also liked playing AC:R without upgrading my armor one bit and i even left the only armor piece broken, so theoretically i had very little health, but the amount of innitial health i had never mattered because of the last regenerating chunk which i constantly survived on.
this made me think - actually in many combats i lost all my health besides that last chunk so in theory i should have died many times if the last chunk wouldnt regen. if the health in AC3 will never regen when in combat than i would assume combat will actually be even EASIER so connor doesnt reach that last bit of health and dies.
and it kinda looks like the combat will be easy since like B:AC enemies dont block and you can move from one enemy to another, but UNLIKE B:AC the enemies die from one hit (the normal weeker ones at least) so combat can be just a few seconds of connor bouncing from one guy to the next killing everyone with one hit. kinda like ACB and ACR.


that's concerning, IMO.


and i also read their statement that everyone can win but not everyone can win with style. another concerning statement. i love the feeling of tention in combat, like when the combat is over you think: "phew. that was close. if i wasnt so **** good i would have died". THAT"S the best feeling i can possible get in action games.
in AC games the feeling was always like: "well. i just killed 20 enemies and i fought like $hit. this AI is really helpless".
it doesnt look like this will change in AC3 though.


however this brings in mind a fourth question:
4) did UBI say if connor's armor can be upgraded?
i hope it CAN so i can chose NOT to upgrade it if the game is too easy.


about the blocking thing - in the boston video it does look like connor is blocking and not countering, unless there is a counter without returning an attack.
once combat begins the very first time connor is attacked he blocks (and then grabbed from behind). and in 03:17 it looks like he blocked and then did normal attacks.


am i wrong?


hoganshero- where did u get the info about different types of countering? like countering and then grabbing or anything like that?did you learn this only from the "frontier" demo where connor is fighting the guards in the snow or is there deeper info on this?


About the AI: what i hated about B:AC's AI was that each AI type only had very very limited amount of reactions - you got those wo only attacked but wouldnt block. those who would ALWAYS block (so u need to cape stun them), those who could never be attacked form the front but always from behind etc etc. i understand the reason for this - it was meant so as batman u could plan your attack and never get interrupted so u can continue the combos, but in AC it was different with AI that can actually sometimes block and sometimes not. sometimes they dodged and sometimes they didnt. they were less predictable. less.... binary. im fearing that in AC3 the AI will take a turn towards B:AC's AI, which fits less in AC3 and takes away the feeling of needing to react to the AI defending themselves. there is no tention in fighting the big brute guy if u know that if u do a particular move that you can kill him 100% of the time...
anyone else thinks like me?




5) another question - are there swords in the game? for connor or the enemies? i remember seeing a DLC which is a sword for connor, but i wonder if in the game there will be swords too. the combat seems to rely so heavily on the axe that i cant imagine UBI doing a new set of animations for a secondary weapon like a sword....

pacmanate
09-08-2012, 02:46 PM
thank you everyone for participating in my quarry.

No problem ;)

hoganshero- that's some useful info in your post.
i alread remember them saying that health will not regenerate during combat but no video they've shown supported that statement so i didnt know what to believe.
it will not surprise me at all if it will work just like AC:B and AC:R - where 95% of the health wont regen, but the last bit would.

Okay so yes, Health will NOT regenerate in combat, and yes you are right, no "official" video has been shown to support that statement. By "official" I mean walkthroughs that they put on Ubisofts and AC's own channel. This is because, for demo purposes, they max out everything to make sure they don't die and fail at demoing the product. There are however, videos of the Boston demo (think its the Wii U one), where when Connor gets hit, his health goes down.

Long story short, it only regenerates when you have lost your pursuers.

i also liked playing AC:R without upgrading my armor one bit and i even left the only armor piece broken, so theoretically i had very little health, but the amount of innitial health i had never mattered because of the last regenerating chunk which i constantly survived on.

This won't be a problem in AC3, you will have "max" health at the start of the game. There will be no armours in the game and will be replaced with outfits. So far we only know that they are cosmetic only, it hasn't been said whether outfits in the game will have features like lose pursuers faster or something.

this made me think - actually in many combats i lost all my health besides that last chunk so in theory i should have died many times if the last chunk wouldnt regen. if the health in AC3 will never regen when in combat than i would assume combat will actually be even EASIER so connor doesnt reach that last bit of health and dies.

Combat won't be easier, in the Wii U demo in boston, Connor got hit once with the muskets bayonet and lost around a fourth of his health. Like the devs said, they made the combat so it is a challenge to make things fluid, that doesn't mean it is easy. For example, getting shot can easily take away half you health. Doing one wrong move and not getting the human shield in time could mean you die straight away. Having 5-10 guys shooting you with muskets isnt nice.

and it kinda looks like the combat will be easy since like B:AC enemies dont block and you can move from one enemy to another, but UNLIKE B:AC the enemies die from one hit (the normal weeker ones at least) so combat can be just a few seconds of connor bouncing from one guy to the next killing everyone with one hit. kinda like ACB and ACR.

These enemies have new AI. As said in episode 2 of the dev diaries they are more dynamic. There are scenes in the video that show Connor rolling out the way and a guard quickly changing animation to try and kill Connor. They will be smarter, as for can they counter, I don't think so, but they do have a defensive stance like usual. Also, AC:Bs combat flow worked regardless of archetype. In AC:R the jannessaries screwed this flow. In AC3, there are over a dozen new archetypes that will force you to change what style of combat you use DURING the flow of combat. As seen in the demos, the big beefy scottish guys require a break stance attack rather than a normal one to continue the chain.

that's concerning, IMO.

Hopefully not anymore when I am done with you!

and i also read their statement that everyone can win but not everyone can win with style. another concerning statement. i love the feeling of tention in combat, like when the combat is over you think: "phew. that was close. if i wasnt so **** good i would have died". THAT"S the best feeling i can possible get in action games.
in AC games the feeling was always like: "well. i just killed 20 enemies and i fought like $hit. this AI is really helpless".
it doesnt look like this will change in AC3 though.

As stated before, the health regeneration outside of combat, the ammount of damage hits do, and the ammount of archetypes will probably make this AC game harder than the rest. For your health to regenerate you need to flee. In the WIi U boston demo, Connor gets hit once with a muskets bayonet and loses a fourth if not more of his health. This effectively means 4 hits taken in combat and you will die. That is much harder than the 20 or so hits you coudl possibley take in previous AC games without using smelling salts. Also the archetypes will force you to change your style in combat too. It sounds much harder and more challenging that previous AC games, and also more rewarding at the same time!


however this brings in mind a fourth question:
4) did UBI say if connor's armor can be upgraded?
i hope it CAN so i can chose NOT to upgrade it if the game is too easy.

Mentioned before haha, it is confirmed no armour however there will be outfits. You could kind of tell as pre order incentives this time round are outfits and not armours. You will have max health at the start of the game as max health this time will be "normal person health". Also it was stated a while back by the Devs that armour wasn't worn in thsi period, so if they did include it Connor would stick out so much, and two, they would just contradict themselves.

about the blocking thing - in the boston video it does look like connor is blocking and not countering, unless there is a counter without returning an attack.
once combat begins the very first time connor is attacked he blocks (and then grabbed from behind). and in 03:17 it looks like he blocked and then did normal attacks.

It is confirmed that there is NO blocking in this game. There is only attacking. I think there is dodging but it could me mixed in with attacking too. Like when you see Connor rolling out the way and then attack someone in the leg.


am i wrong?

Blobolbolob.

hoganshero- where did u get the info about different types of countering? like countering and then grabbing or anything like that?did you learn this only from the "frontier" demo where connor is fighting the guards in the snow or is there deeper info on this?

I think hoganshero is getting confused with what he has seen and then reffering to this as countering. Firstly, you can counter, obviously. Secondly, the grab thing could just be the human shield, however I think that this can only be used when soldiers are lining up in a firing line. I am not sure if grab is still in the game as it never shows up on the HUD for the circle button, only counter shows up.


About the AI: what i hated about B:AC's AI was that each AI type only had very very limited amount of reactions - you got those wo only attacked but wouldnt block. those who would ALWAYS block (so u need to cape stun them), those who could never be attacked form the front but always from behind etc etc. i understand the reason for this - it was meant so as batman u could plan your attack and never get interrupted so u can continue the combos, but in AC it was different with AI that can actually sometimes block and sometimes not. sometimes they dodged and sometimes they didnt. they were less predictable. less.... binary. im fearing that in AC3 the AI will take a turn towards B:AC's AI, which fits less in AC3 and takes away the feeling of needing to react to the AI defending themselves. there is no tention in fighting the big brute guy if u know that if u do a particular move that you can kill him 100% of the time...
anyone else thinks like me?

Different archetypes, different fighting styles, moves and AI. No need to worry. Also a lot of the time 2 NPCS attack at the same time so no worries.


5) another question - are there swords in the game? for connor or the enemies? i remember seeing a DLC which is a sword for connor, but i wonder if in the game there will be swords too. the combat seems to rely so heavily on the axe that i cant imagine UBI doing a new set of animations for a secondary weapon like a sword....

I think a lot of people have been wondering this as well. There was a lot of sword fighting but mostly this happened at Sea during Naval battles etc... Pirates. Even though a sword IS DLC, it does mean that they have made new animations for it. They won't show of certain things in AC3 as they want to show off new stuff. Connor is a dual weilding specialist, something brand new to the series, they wouldn't want to show of him using swords it doesn't make sense.

I hope I have enlightened you! If you have any more questions then ask away.

BBALive
09-08-2012, 04:07 PM
hoganshero- that's some useful info in your post.
i alread remember them saying that health will not regenerate during combat but no video they've shown supported that statement so i didnt know what to believe.
it will not surprise me at all if it will work just like AC:B and AC:R - where 95% of the health wont regen, but the last bit would.

From what we've seen, I believe the rate at which your health will regenerate depends on whether or not you're in open-conflict (red), whether the enemies are actively searching for you (yellow), or whether you're in the clear (blue).

When you're in combat, your health doesn't regenerate at all. When you're out of combat but your enemies are still searching for you, or you're being chased, your health regenerates at a slow rate, and when they've completely lost you, your health regenerates quite quickly.

These types of variables may have been altered for demo purposes, so there's not way to tell for sure until we've actually got the game.


however this brings in mind a fourth question:
4) did UBI say if connor's armor can be upgraded?
i hope it CAN so i can chose NOT to upgrade it if the game is too easy.
Armour itself is not in the game due to the time period, but outfit customisation is still in the game. However, upgrading or altering your outfit will not affect your Health. You start the game with the maximum amount of health, and it stays constant throughout the game.



about the blocking thing - in the boston video it does look like connor is blocking and not countering, unless there is a counter without returning an attack.
once combat begins the very first time connor is attacked he blocks (and then grabbed from behind). and in 03:17 it looks like he blocked and then did normal attacks.


am i wrong?
You're not wrong. However, blocking - like the entire combat system - has been altered. You can no longer turtle (hold one button down to block everything), but it seems you can still block in certain situations. How the blocking mechanic will work in game is not known, and probably won't be known until we've got the game ourselves.


hoganshero- where did u get the info about different types of countering? like countering and then grabbing or anything like that?did you learn this only from the "frontier" demo where connor is fighting the guards in the snow or is there deeper info on this?
They spoke about the changes to the countering system in multiple magazine articles.

Basically, when you perform a successful counter, there will be a short 'slow-down', during which you can input another button to perform an action. So you can perform the counter, then press the attack button to kill them, or you can perform the counter and press a different button to dodge, or grab them, so on and so forth. The actual options that are available haven't been disclosed, but you can definitely see the slowdown when watching the gameplay demos. You'll also notice that Connor ALWAYS blocks before performing a counter (whereas Ezio would kill them before the attack landed), this is due to the new system.


About the AI: what i hated about B:AC's AI was that each AI type only had very very limited amount of reactions - you got those wo only attacked but wouldnt block. those who would ALWAYS block (so u need to cape stun them), those who could never be attacked form the front but always from behind etc etc. i understand the reason for this - it was meant so as batman u could plan your attack and never get interrupted so u can continue the combos, but in AC it was different with AI that can actually sometimes block and sometimes not. sometimes they dodged and sometimes they didnt. they were less predictable. less.... binary. im fearing that in AC3 the AI will take a turn towards B:AC's AI, which fits less in AC3 and takes away the feeling of needing to react to the AI defending themselves. there is no tention in fighting the big brute guy if u know that if u do a particular move that you can kill him 100% of the time...
anyone else thinks like me?
It has been said that AC3 will include a large amount of archetypes (15 or something like that), and that each one will have to be dealt with in different ways. The only thing that concerns me is that if they can all be killed with a killstreak, then you remove the whole point of designing and implementing these different enemy classes. It's another thing we won't find out until we actually have the game.


another question - are there swords in the game? for connor or the enemies? i remember seeing a DLC which is a sword for connor, but i wonder if in the game there will be swords too. the combat seems to rely so heavily on the axe that i cant imagine UBI doing a new set of animations for a secondary weapon like a sword....

Yes, swords are in the game. The tomahawk and hidden blader (dagger) aren't the focus of the combat system, they're just Connor's 'favourite' weapons due to his heritage. There's still a large variety of different weapon types like swords, war clubs, short swords, daggers, short-axes, hidden blades, your fists and so on, so I wouldn't worry about the combat system being entirely focused on the tomahawk, because it isn't.

andreja110s
09-08-2012, 04:50 PM
I have a question too. In AC2 and ACB( I haven┤t played ACR yet) guards were sometimes mixed with civillans and got highlighted but without locking I still took the risk of killing innocent people. In AC3 there is no locking, it is automatic, but is there still a chance of killing civillans unintentionally?

adarwinter
09-08-2012, 06:13 PM
pacmanate and BBAlive - thank you so very much for taking the time in phrasing such wonderful posts. well appreciated. :)

the new counter system is exacly what i hoped to see in a game for a long while - having a veriaty of counters instead of "tap counter and watch the autopilot". i cant wait to try it. darn you , PC version, for coming late. but thank you youtube ;)

i really wonder if doging is still there. however it really looks like counter+kill seems like the best type of counter. when i thought about such a system i figured there should be a counter+attack (do a lot of damage with the risk of getting hit during the animation. doesnt kill instantaneously), counter+grab (slam the enemy to the ground, do lil damage but takes the enemy out of the fight for a longer while) and counter+dodge (pulls the enemy and goes over him. useful to get out of a circle of enemies).
it doesnt seem like AC3 has the exact kind of system i was thinking about but it sounds really close!

i must admit that the inability to upgrade connors health is strange. on one hand it makes me happy that you won't become a tank by the end of the game even if you try, which should mean that UBISOFT can balance the game more carefully and keep combat fluid and require the player to be reactive.
on the other hand i know UBISOFT are REALLY proud on how everyone can play and finish their game (i remember an article were they stated how proud they are that over 70% of gamers finished AC2).... cuz they are accessible.... due to them being.... well... a cake walk. so im worried that the game will indeed be carefully balanced.... to be easy.
if connors health is always low and if indeed he can die in 5 or 6 hits than to make the game accessible (everyone can win, though not in style) the AI will have to be either easy or dumb or something. i saw my girlfriend playing AC2. she always attack spammed the AI and killed everyone. no use of the depth of the combat system. if she can beat AC3 with the same mindset i will be a sad native american.

everything you guys said make the game sound a little difficult and requires skills... but this is UBISOFT and AC we are talking about. the franchise they cater hard to the casual gamer. if the game isnt balanced so the casual gamer can get through combat by having a lot more health later in the game than how can they balance it to be easy enough without dumbing down the AI?
it makes me happy and wary at the same time :) :(

about swords - i hope you are right about the presence of swords and other weapons, but i havent seen a single sword in the game outside of naval ship take overs. i wonder if anyone will carry swords in the world outside of naval warfare.

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 07:14 PM
I play Assassin's Creed since the first one, 95% of the time i play, i do combat. From so many combat i've done i noticed how the development team made the AI response on the exact same way or the exact same time at the different player's movement/actions. Revelations for me seemed to be their "testing-area" for the new upcoming AC3 (since Revelations seemed to be so rushed at the lack of gameplay's polish-ment compared to Brotherhood, i speak for the combat of course). On what i've seen so far from the gameplay trailers from AC3 (Based on the beta playtroughs, not the final product) the readcoat's respond archetype is common to the janissaries from revelations. The non-lethal Connor's swings with the tomahawk are just like the ezio's swings in preparation for execution, the speed and the variety of movements of the tomahawk give the impression that it look like something new, awesome-er.

The "block" is similar to the revelations (and brotherhood, not only just revelations as someone said here) , like the main character look "dominated" for a moment, it won't take any health to the player, but in this case you can see Connor's health bar blinks red and the tomahawk kind of losing its grip from connor's hand, regaining it of course.

The only (i can think by now) new addition to the AC3's combat is the new (realistic) swings to an enemy with fully naked defense (in revelations the naked defense of the guards didn't added ezio swing points for the execution finish, you just see ezio swing and the guard loosing his balance for a second, walking backwards and moving his hands above his head, in Brotherhood you can fully open a guard's defense with the kick-attack-kick-attack combo, allowing ezio to perform vintage killing animations). And i also saw the fist fighting which it takes like 5 hits (i think the 5 swing points goes for AC3 too) for Connor to perform an execution, just this time connor has those mma's style of movement of every point reaching the execution, not like the ezio's burst of fists.

P.s. As i said this post goes for the gameplay videos ubisoft released so far, they still can change and add new things for the final product.
Basically the only new things in the fight development code-ing are the double-counter and naked defense's swings (It is funny how some of you know what ubisoft is like and still fall for their false advertisement). The animations are brand new, so you don't get me wrong.


In AC:R the jannessaries screwed this flow
If you know how to handle it it will flow..

Assassin_M
09-08-2012, 07:24 PM
P.s. As i said this post goes for the gameplay videos ubisoft released so far, they still can change and add new things for the final product.
No..

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 08:06 PM
No..
Oh, i forgot you are the development team's supervisor...

Assassin_M
09-08-2012, 08:07 PM
Oh, i forgot you are the development team's supervisor...
Again, No..

At this stage, Nothing more will be added.. Just polishing and Debugging.. Nothing will be added.. its Alpha.. or maybe even past that.

BBALive
09-08-2012, 08:22 PM
about swords - i hope you are right about the presence of swords and other weapons, but i havent seen a single sword in the game outside of naval ship take overs. i wonder if anyone will carry swords in the world outside of naval warfare.

People will carry swords outside of Naval combat. Highly ranked officers usually carried a saber of sorts. As shown in this screenshot:

http://bnbgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/newUploads_2012_0814_620c405c22d683e44c92d56334cfc bc8_120815_10am_AC3_S_SP_SONY_BenedictArnold_55_Ga mescom.jpg

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 08:47 PM
Just polishing and Debugging.. Nothing will be added..

It is kind of funny how sure you look about this, can you spoil us a bit or two something about the game itself?

Assassin_M
09-08-2012, 08:51 PM
Im such a loser

It is kind of funny how sure you look about this, can you spoil us a bit or two something about the game itself?
Im sure, because I have experience and I know people who work in the Industry..also.. you can actually search the internet and you`ll find that im right...

Regarding the Spoilers... I do not like spoiling things for people.. you will find out when you play the game

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 08:59 PM
Im sure, because I have experience and I know people who work in the Industry

Nice to meet you, experienced guy at tracking the video game's development and knowing people who work for the industry, unfortunately i don't have superpowers like yours.
P.s.- Nice try with the quote...

Assassin_M
09-08-2012, 09:01 PM
Nice to meet you, experienced guy at tracking the video game's development and knowing people who work for the industry, unfortunately i don't have superpowers like yours.
P.s.- Nice try with the quote...
Thanks:D

You are so nice:D

Why cant everyone be like you:D

That Acknowledge my Great super powers:D

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Welcome :)
But it is a shame how you think of yourself as such as you described yourself in your post (#43)

pacmanate
09-08-2012, 10:48 PM
pacmanate and BBAlive - thank you so very much for taking the time in phrasing such wonderful posts. well appreciated. :)

the new counter system is exacly what i hoped to see in a game for a long while - having a veriaty of counters instead of "tap counter and watch the autopilot". i cant wait to try it. darn you , PC version, for coming late. but thank you youtube ;)

i really wonder if doging is still there. however it really looks like counter+kill seems like the best type of counter. when i thought about such a system i figured there should be a counter+attack (do a lot of damage with the risk of getting hit during the animation. doesnt kill instantaneously), counter+grab (slam the enemy to the ground, do lil damage but takes the enemy out of the fight for a longer while) and counter+dodge (pulls the enemy and goes over him. useful to get out of a circle of enemies).
it doesnt seem like AC3 has the exact kind of system i was thinking about but it sounds really close!

Just have to remember, he is a "normal" type guy, not batman :P

i must admit that the inability to upgrade connors health is strange. on one hand it makes me happy that you won't become a tank by the end of the game even if you try, which should mean that UBISOFT can balance the game more carefully and keep combat fluid and require the player to be reactive.
on the other hand i know UBISOFT are REALLY proud on how everyone can play and finish their game (i remember an article were they stated how proud they are that over 70% of gamers finished AC2).... cuz they are accessible.... due to them being.... well... a cake walk. so im worried that the game will indeed be carefully balanced.... to be easy.
if connors health is always low and if indeed he can die in 5 or 6 hits than to make the game accessible (everyone can win, though not in style) the AI will have to be either easy or dumb or something. i saw my girlfriend playing AC2. she always attack spammed the AI and killed everyone. no use of the depth of the combat system. if she can beat AC3 with the same mindset i will be a sad native american.

I don't think not upgrading Connors health is weird at all, it just makes more sense. If there is no armour, why should his health increase? It keeps the game more grounded in reality. Again I don't think it will be to easy. As stated before the different archetypes need different tactics, and the fact that one hit with a bayonet knocks your health down a fourth of the way, I wouldnt say it is easy. Running away however is easy no doubt, but there is no satisfaction running away whatsoever.

everything you guys said make the game sound a little difficult and requires skills... but this is UBISOFT and AC we are talking about. the franchise they cater hard to the casual gamer. if the game isnt balanced so the casual gamer can get through combat by having a lot more health later in the game than how can they balance it to be easy enough without dumbing down the AI?
it makes me happy and wary at the same time :) :(

Well the combat won't be hard as such but challenging to keep up with archetypes? But that shouldn't take long and when you have mastered combat it should just LOOk amazing when you kill people. Also you say about the easy thing, remember if crappy gamers keep getting hit, they can flee. But there is no satisfaction in running away all the time knowing you cant use medicine. It will hopefully make people get better at the game and try harder to master it.


about swords - i hope you are right about the presence of swords and other weapons, but i havent seen a single sword in the game outside of naval ship take overs. i wonder if anyone will carry swords in the world outside of naval warfare.

You will see mostly Captains or generals using swords, also "pirates".


Oh, i forgot you are the development team's supervisor...

He isn't, but he is right though. The game is probably most likely in alpha, and will go beta probably in the next few weeks and I am guessing going Gold near start of October or just before.


Again, No..

At this stage, Nothing more will be added.. Just polishing and Debugging.. Nothing will be added.. its Alpha.. or maybe even past that.

This, basically. You need to research around on what happens at Alpha, Pre alpha, beta stage etc before saying M is some crazy dude.

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 11:14 PM
I said changes and additions, what is the difference between change and polishing? They will always be working on additions around the game since they have a habit to release DLCs like week or two after the actual release.
And i never said he is crazy....


The game is probably most likely in alpha
Just assuming around doesn't mean anything.

BBALive
09-08-2012, 11:15 PM
Again, No..

At this stage, Nothing more will be added.. Just polishing and Debugging.. Nothing will be added.. its Alpha.. or maybe even past that.

I'd say it's in Beta by now. There's only just over a month before release, and the game will go Gold a few weeks before then. So yeah, I'd say it's Beta.

pacmanate
09-08-2012, 11:17 PM
I said changes and additions, what is the difference between change and polishing? They will always be working on additions around the game since they have a habit to release DLCs like week or two after the actual release.
And i never said he is crazy....


Just assuming around doesn't mean anything.

Think of a change as more addition and removal. Polishing is fine tuning everything that you know is going to stay in the game.

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 11:23 PM
Think of a change as more addition and removal. Polishing is fine tuning everything that you know is going to stay in the game.
So if they see, for instance, in one of the animations that the tomahawk goes little too unrealistically deep into the enemy's skull and try to "polish" it (not to change it, lol) to look a little bit more realistic, there will be no change at the tomahawk's positioning, but a polish.... lol

I think i will polish my way of living from tommorow, i will eat less meat and more vegetables. My doctor also said i should polish some more of my bad habits. Better start polish myself... so i can tune my body up..

pacmanate
09-08-2012, 11:25 PM
So if they see, for instance, in one of the animations that the tomahawk goes little too unrealistically deep into the enemy's skull and try to "polish" it (not to change it, lol) to look a little bit more realistic, there will be no change at the tomahawk's positioning, but a polish.... lol

Well it isn't an addition change or a removal, it is tweaking something that was already there and making it more realistic as you said.

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 11:30 PM
Yea, sure.. right..
I didn't said "addition change" just like you did, which means you subconsciously agree with me about "change", like i did said.... change, and change only.

pacmanate
09-08-2012, 11:33 PM
Yea, sure..

To be honest I explained this clearly and you have decided to get all cocky about it so I'm done.

connor_bg
09-08-2012, 11:35 PM
Ok, sorry, man i did kind of went too far.

adarwinter
09-09-2012, 12:32 PM
i think that once a game goes into alpha no more new features go into it. only tweaking. polishing the balance of the game and stuff like that.
in beta that is just taking out bugs and polishing the code. beta can be a process of a couple of months if not more, as far as i know.
and i think a game needs 2 weeks for distribution after going gold so i believe it's safe to say AC3 has gone to beta a while ago and will go gold in the middle or beginning of october.

anyways, thanks for the replys to my questions. i hope there will be some cool combat moments of enemies defending themselves against connor and that combat is back and forth a bit and not just connor attacks and attacks.

pacmanate
09-09-2012, 01:27 PM
i think that once a game goes into alpha no more new features go into it. only tweaking. polishing the balance of the game and stuff like that.
in beta that is just taking out bugs and polishing the code. beta can be a process of a couple of months if not more, as far as i know.
and i think a game needs 2 weeks for distribution after going gold so i believe it's safe to say AC3 has gone to beta a while ago and will go gold in the middle or beginning of october.

anyways, thanks for the replys to my questions. i hope there will be some cool combat moments of enemies defending themselves against connor and that combat is back and forth a bit and not just connor attacks and attacks.

I just thought, obviously archetypes can block but maybe the archetypes "counter" is blocking some attacks. For example those scottish geezas block regular attacks so you have to use break defense. Maybe some archetypes block break defense and you need to roll past them and chop their legs etc.

HisSpiritLives
09-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Only thing that i am little worried about is that enemies are still passive i hope they fix that up until release

adarwinter
09-09-2012, 04:46 PM
I just thought, obviously archetypes can block but maybe the archetypes "counter" is blocking some attacks. For example those scottish geezas block regular attacks so you have to use break defense. Maybe some archetypes block break defense and you need to roll past them and chop their legs etc.

what i hated about the Batman arkham games' enemies is that their reactions are ones and zeros - they either always do something or never do something. there is organic nature to the actions - you got enemies that never block , enemies that always block, enemies that always attack in a combo of 3, enemies that always attack once etc etc. in AC games this wasnt the case - some times they'd block, sometimes they wouldnt. i hope UBI will maintain the more random and human nature of the AI. i'd hate to have the big scottish guys ALWAYS block yet connor can ALWAYS defence break them and then attack. that's like fighting a computerized AI and not a human being.

@ hisspiritlives - the AI will always wait for a while before attacking. in all games. it's meant to give a good feel for the combat. if it was realistic than they would attack all the time which would leave connor to only counter, and that would be boring and wrong from a gameplay stand point. as they play UBI make the AI wait for a while and see if doring fighting your feel like it takes too long between counters or not. if if feels like the player needs to counter more since the AI feels to passive than they will make the AI wait longer, but if they feel that the player needs to counter too often and there isnt enough room for the player to decide what he's doing on his own than they will make the AI wait for longer.
if you look at the AI in the videos it looks like they are waiting for far too long. and that's true, from a realism POV, but if u look at what connor does - it looks like he's always doing something and almost never stands there waiting for an incoming attack. he's always moving. that's good. that's how the game is supposed to be played a feel.
my 2 cents, at least.

SixKeys
09-09-2012, 05:00 PM
what i hated about the Batman arkham games' enemies is that their reactions are ones and zeros - they either always do something or never do something. there is organic nature to the actions - you got enemies that never block , enemies that always block, enemies that always attack in a combo of 3, enemies that always attack once etc etc. in AC games this wasnt the case - some times they'd block, sometimes they wouldnt. i hope UBI will maintain the more random and human nature of the AI. i'd hate to have the big scottish guys ALWAYS block yet connor can ALWAYS defence break them and then attack. that's like fighting a computerized AI and not a human being.

I disagree about AC enemies being less predictable. I've never seen an agile guard block, for example. They always, always jump away from your attacks, so you have to keep using the same tactics on them. The enemies in AC1 were more balanced than in the sequels. You didn't have archetypes, only more or less experienced soldiers. The low-ranking soldiers could turn cowardly and run away and weren't good at blocking, the more elite guards could use counter attacks and break your defense. Templar knights could do pretty much all of Alta´r's movements. In the sequels you mainly had stupid guards and less stupid guards, but their behavior was always predictable.

HisSpiritLives
09-09-2012, 05:47 PM
I disagree about AC enemies being less predictable. I've never seen an agile guard block, for example. They always, always jump away from your attacks, so you have to keep using the same tactics on them. The enemies in AC1 were more balanced than in the sequels. You didn't have archetypes, only more or less experienced soldiers. The low-ranking soldiers could turn cowardly and run away and weren't good at blocking, the more elite guards could use counter attacks and break your defense. Templar knights could do pretty much all of Alta´r's movements. In the sequels you mainly had stupid guards and less stupid guards, but their behavior was always predictable.

True ,AC enemies arent less predictable

adarwinter
09-09-2012, 07:23 PM
AC's AI is less predictable than batmans simply because they are more than one reaction to when u attack them.
the agile guards only dodge and not blck but sometimes they dont dodge. this right there is more than what batman's enemies did.

the best evolution to the AC franchise is, IMO, to have AI that can dodge, block and even counter the player as well, yet always give the player a way to have the last word.
so even if the AI can dodge over the player or counter him - the player can reverse their counter or dodge with a specific reaction to each of the AIs moves. so if u attack the AI and he dodges u need to kick him, but if he counters you need to counter him back instead of keep attacking. this small addition to the combat could add so much.
enemies that dodge than attack were in AC1 and it was fun reacting to them. having the need to counter normal attacks quickly but strong attacks later in AC1 was also a lot of fun.
things just went down hill from there along some improvements. it's great to have variety of enemies like heavies, light and medium, but instead of making each archetype have a sophisticated AI of his own UBI took the nice AI in AC1 and divided it among the archetypes. instead of different harder enemies they made different easier ones.
in batman it makes sense because the player needs to know what is going to happen when he attacks each enemy to keep the combo flowing, but there is no such a thing in AC so having an AI surprise the player and interrupt his flow isnt necessarily a bad thing, especially if, as i said above, the player can always counter react.
the only rule is never take the fate of the player out of his hands and always give the player the option to avoid damage. other than that - why not let enemies do challenging things on the player?

i tell you why - cuz they want the game to cater to everyone. give a 17 year old girl who is merely a casual gamer the game and require depth and she will die a lot and get frustrated and wont buy the next games.

if UBI only incorporated difficulty settings like most games this would have been solved more easily but nooooooo....