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Radman500
09-03-2012, 07:14 PM
would they ally themselves as being Far-left, marxist, communist etc...

do you view the assassins as being a far-left orginization

deskp
09-03-2012, 07:26 PM
They wouldnt align themselves with anything, they'd infiltrate.

Assassin_M
09-03-2012, 07:38 PM
They`ll ally and infiltrate anything that helps them reach their goal..

TheHumanTowel
09-03-2012, 07:42 PM
I don't think the assassins identify with any political ideaology. They follow their own ideals and ally themselves with anyone who they think will further their goals. The Assassins did support the Bolsheviks in the Russian Revolution but I'm pretty sure they dropped their support when Stalin came to power.

Locopells
09-03-2012, 07:47 PM
Only to break the power of the POE the Czars were holding.

hoganshero
09-03-2012, 07:55 PM
Would the Templar not be the communist with the powerful government and weak civil rights.

Locopells
09-03-2012, 08:09 PM
Probably a bit like we're gonna see in AC3, they might support the original, apparently noble, cause of the rebels, but abandon them when they turn out to more of the same...

POP1Fan
09-03-2012, 08:22 PM
I can see the Assassins ally with an ideology like the original communism, what Marx originaly had in mind, not with what was actually executed. Stalin was a really crazy fellow (among others)

HisSpiritLives
09-03-2012, 09:12 PM
They`ll ally and infiltrate anything that helps them reach their goal..

Soory but i disagree with that,do you have facts or proof for that statment?? I personaly dont see assassins ideology like that...

LoyalACFan
09-03-2012, 09:16 PM
I can see the Assassins ally with an ideology like the original communism, what Marx originaly had in mind, not with what was actually executed. Stalin was a really crazy fellow (among others)

Basically this. They supported the Bolsheviks, then killed Stalin.

Assassin_M
09-03-2012, 09:30 PM
Soory but i disagree with that,do you have facts or proof for that statment?? I personaly dont see assassins ideology like that...
It is..

They Allied with the Church after Rodrigo, They had allies in and Infiltrated the Communist Party, They have Allies in the Patriots, They had allies in the house of Barbarigo, They even Infiltrated the house of Borgia and had allies in there, they had allies in the white house...

Why do you think they do this ? because they they love these guys ? No.. its because these relationships helps their cause and assures their continued fight against the templars..

In short, play the games, read the Comic, solve the glyphs...

HisSpiritLives
09-03-2012, 09:38 PM
It is..

They Allied with the Church after Rodrigo, They had allies in and Infiltrated the Communist Party, They have Allies in the Patriots, They had allies in the house of Barbarigo, They even Infiltrated the house of Borgia and had allies in there, they had allies in the white house...

Why do you think they do this ? because they they love these guys ? No.. its because these relationships helps their cause and assures their continued fight against the templars..

In short, play the games, read the Comic, solve the glyphs...

Most of them were their own people, it isnt like they made a deal with that ,,groups,, .

Assassin_M
09-03-2012, 09:45 PM
Most of them were their own people, it isnt like they made a deal with that ,,groups,, .
Deal ? Whoever said anything about a deal ? And no, the Pope wasnt an Assassin, Agostino Barbarigo was not an Assassin, Lenin was not Assassin, Tesla was not an Assassin, JFK was not an Assassin ...etc

They Infiltrate groups to cover their Assassin identity OR to help them defeat the Templars. They Ally with factions that are Enemies to another faction that has Templar ranks among it..

Im getting the Vibe that you`re one of those who believe the Assassins are saints..

Kaschra
09-03-2012, 10:00 PM
Lenin's brother was an assassin though.

Assassin_M
09-03-2012, 10:01 PM
Lenin's brother was an assassin though.
Indeed.. another example of Infiltration..

De Filosoof
09-04-2012, 01:36 AM
would they ally themselves as being Far-left, marxist, communist etc...

do you view the assassins as being a far-left orginization

No, i think they are far above the political nonsense.

I think they're actually kinda spiritual. I wonder why we never saw them meditating in one of the games.
The phrace "nothing is true, everything is permitted" only applies to conscious spiritual beings.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 01:40 AM
No, i think they are far above the political nonsense.
The most correct statement in this thread..

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 02:17 AM
Would the Templar not be the communist with the powerful government and weak civil rights.

That's not the communism that Marx "created". Do not lead yourself into wrong beliefs only because people is corrupt and can't lead communism to practice.

For me communism is the best polotical IDEOLOGY but when in patrice, Socialism is better, however, not a single country is socialism imho. Corruption leads to capitalism nowadays and corruption is everywhere, specially among the strongest people in each country.

With that said, i think that the assassin's ideology is similar to the communism one, only that assassins defend that each person rules themselves, in communism, Proletariat rules each company. <- That's the difference between Marx's communism and Russia//China's communism.


No, i think they are far above the political nonsense.

I think they're actually kinda spiritual. I wonder why we never saw them meditating in one of the games.
The phrace "nothing is true, everything is permitted" only applies to conscious spiritual beings.

What? They try to remove men control so they preform some kind of political acts.

Nothing is true, everything is permitted DO NOT only applies to conscious spiritual beings, it just means that mens can't be sure about what's true or not and that rules are not made by gods but by men. What's spiritual about that?

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 02:24 AM
I think they're actually kinda spiritual. I wonder why we never saw them meditating in one of the games.
The phrace "nothing is true, everything is permitted" only applies to conscious spiritual beings.

Now why did you add that ?

How can they be spiritual when they seek to liberate from invisible bindings ? "I long for the day when men would turn away from invisible monsters and embrace a more logical explanation" -Altair
That`s Altair`s stand point, so apparently it applies to all. The Assassins are, Unarguably, a Political movement, just not what Modern Politics represents right now. They have their own Political Ideology..

TheNatural2012
09-04-2012, 04:23 AM
The assassin order is symbolic for mankind is capable of anything if it has free will but society has been put in chains due to the collective ideas of some very powerful people. One must be free of all pre-concieved ideas from others to understand oneself. Many put there by society itself, and in the end nothing is true which could mean two things. nothing is true saying that all forms of limit are a illsion and in turn all forms are illsion or nothing is truth because without nothing everything that is something would mean nothing. Everything is permited,could mean there is no right or wrong choices only learning experiences or anything is possible through understanding nothing is true.I think It was left open for interperation. All through this could be completely wrong on what they were going for, even though what is said is true. Also viloence is not the answer.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 04:34 AM
The assassin order is symbolic for mankind is capable of anything if it has free will but society has been put in chains due to the collective ideas of some very powerful people. One must be free of all pre-concieved ideas from others to understand oneself. Many put there by society itself, and in the end nothing is true which could mean two things. nothing is true saying that all forms of limit are a illsion and in turn all forms are illsion or nothing is truth because without nothing everything that is something would mean nothing. Everything is permited,could mean there is no right or wrong choices only learning experiences or anything is possible through understanding nothing is true.I think It was left open for interperation. All through this could be completely wrong on what they were going for, even though what is said is true. Also viloence is not the answer.
I think "Nothing is true and Everything is permitted" was already explained.. So there is no speculation, interpretation about it..Its not really something that is built around an Entirety, its more of a realist view or "Theory" on life and Society. its not a Creed and its not a Religion, it is also not as complex as some people here would like to think, its really very simple.

It just keeps the Assassins from becoming what they fight against. They drew a line in order to have their concepts and Ideologies remain incorruptible, it certainly puts them in a different light than everyone else, but it doesn't necessarily raise them above it. The Assassins Accept flaws within what they protect and within themselves, but strive not to become what they swore to fight against.

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 04:36 AM
Also viloence is not the answer.

Ok, Assassin's Creed 3 won't start with the multicultural stuff....


This work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.

It will now start warning Connor's a professional and that we should not try his moves at home:


This work of fiction was designed, developed, and producted by a single trained professional man, do no try this at home.

Well, at least it means connor moves are more professional then altair and ezio's ones? xDD

TheNatural2012
09-04-2012, 05:01 AM
I think "Nothing is true and Everything is permitted" was already explained.. So there is no speculation, interpretation about it..Its not really something that is built around an Entirety, its more of a realist view or "Theory" on life and Society. its not a Creed and its not a Religion, it is also not as complex as some people here would like to think, its really very simple.

It just keeps the Assassins from becoming what they fight against. They drew a line in order to have their concepts and Ideologies remain incorruptible, it certainly puts them in a different light than everyone else, but it doesn't necessarily raise them above it. The Assassins Accept flaws within what they protect and within themselves, but strive not to become what they swore to fight against. "theory" can only come into existinence threw the apparent illsion of a "fixed reality". And "reality" came into perspective through the perspective of "not real". The perspective of "life" came into existence from the prespective of "no-life" and life has never not existed.you can deny or accept but there are no wrong choices.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 05:04 AM
"theory" can only come into existinence threw the apparent illsion of a "fixed reality". And "reality" came into perspective through the perspective of "not real". The perspective of "life" came into existence from the prespective of "no-life" and life has never not existed.you can deny or accept but there are no wrong choices.
Would you be surprised if I said..... What ?

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 05:08 AM
"theory" can only come into existinence threw the apparent illsion of a "fixed reality". And "reality" came into perspective through the perspective of "not real". The perspective of "life" came into existence from the prespective of "no-life" and life has never not existed.you can deny or accept but there are no wrong choices.

Life has never not existed? Wait wait wait... Back in the Big Bang there was no way to there be life as there was not even "matter" (not sure if it's the correct word), but only energy.

And theory is more of a "eventualy reality" then a "fixed reality". But this is just my opinion.


Would you be surprised if I said..... What ?

Basically the Yin-Yang chinese stuff, the sun and the moon, the earth and the heaven, the man and the woman, matter and anti-matter. There's always an opposite, and saying there are no wrong choises is saying every choise is correct, and by correct you mean not-wrong,,, there for, there must be any wrong choise.

TheNatural2012
09-04-2012, 05:08 AM
Not in the slightest.

kriegerdesgottes
09-04-2012, 05:11 AM
I see this thread becoming derailed and then locked in the very near future.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 05:12 AM
Life has never not existed? Wait wait wait... Back in the Big Bang there was no way to there be life as there was not even "matter" (not sure if it's the correct word), but only energy.

And theory is more of a "eventualy reality" then a "fixed reality". But this is just my opinion.



Basically the Yin-Yang chinese stuff, the sun and the moon, the earth and the heaven, the man and the woman, matter and anti-matter. There's always an opposite, and saying there are no wrong choises is saying every choise is correct, and by correct you mean not-wrong,,, there for, there must be any wrong choise.
Yin-Yang ? Like I said, everyone is making this too complex.. is freakin simple, people..


I see this thread becoming derailed and then locked in the very near future.

Nah not really, we`re still very much on topic..

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 05:13 AM
I see this thread becoming derailed and then locked in the very near future.

So when i finally find something interesting being said, the thread will be locked? :(


Yin-Yang ? Like I said, everyone is making this too complex.. is freakin simple, people...

You can't say it's simple as "nothing is true", you can only suspect it's simple but others maybe not think according.

TheNatural2012
09-04-2012, 05:15 AM
Im merely explaining the simple truth behind the invisble barriers and the only way I can describe it is through using the barriers themselves. Imagine trying to describe the color red when the entire world is blue and always was blue it simply cannot be done. I'm saying there really is no apparent limit just the preception of one.

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 05:17 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism Welcome to my world :D

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 05:17 AM
So when i finally find something interesting being said, the thread will be locked? :(



You can't say it's simple as "nothing is true", you can only suspect it's simple but others maybe not think according.

That`s the thing, it has already been explained, so we cannot go on and make our own assumptions..


Im merely explaining the simple truth behind the invisble barriers and the only way I can describe it is through using the barriers themselves. Imagine trying to describe the color red when the entire world is blue and always was blue it simply cannot be done. I'm saying there really is no apparent limit just the preception of one.
You`re beginning to make sense... to me at least..

TheNatural2012
09-04-2012, 05:18 AM
I see this thread becoming derailed and then locked in the very near future.What is this comment doing here?lol jk you may b right.

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 05:22 AM
That`s the thing, it has already been explained, so we cannot go on and make our own assumptions..

AFAIK it has only been explained in Ac1 and altair's explanation was: The wolrd is an ilusion and some can submit and others transcend (as we do), now i understand our creed tells us to be wise.
And it doesn't explain the meaning of the phrase o.o

Man was not made with god's image but god was made with men's image. (not sure if it's correctly spelled).

TheNatural2012
09-04-2012, 05:24 AM
That`s the thing, it has already been explained, so we cannot go on and make our own assumptions..


You`re beginning to make sense... to me at least..Good, that's a gift given and sure as flip NOT from me.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 05:25 AM
AFAIK it has only been explained in Ac1 and altair's explanation was: The wolrd is an ilusion and some can submit and others transcend (as we do), now i understand our creed tells us to be wise.
And it doesn't explain the meaning of the phrase o.o

Man was not made with god's image but god was made with men's image. (not sure if it's correctly spelled).
Dude... it was explained by phrase in ACR, what are you talking about ??

TheNatural2012
09-04-2012, 05:56 AM
AFAIK it has only been explained in Ac1 and altair's explanation was: The wolrd is an ilusion and some can submit and others transcend (as we do), now i understand our creed tells us to be wise.
And it doesn't explain the meaning of the phrase o.o

Man was not made with god's image but god was made with men's image. (not sure if it's correctly spelled).Yes, Christ and Buddha are also ones that understood this just Christ had to cover it up a little more due to the harshness of the people in his generation. This may be controversile but it has to be said regardless.

ShadowRage41
09-04-2012, 06:16 AM
No, i think they are far above the political nonsense.


“Under capitalism man exploits man; under socialism the reverse is true” -Polish Proverb
I think you hit the nail on the head, there is not much for me to add.

HisSpiritLives
09-04-2012, 09:38 AM
Deal ? Whoever said anything about a deal ? And no, the Pope wasnt an Assassin, Agostino Barbarigo was not an Assassin, Lenin was not Assassin, Tesla was not an Assassin, JFK was not an Assassin ...etc

They Infiltrate groups to cover their Assassin identity OR to help them defeat the Templars. They Ally with factions that are Enemies to another faction that has Templar ranks among it..

Im getting the Vibe that you`re one of those who believe the Assassins are saints..

No, they arent saints that is sure,but well everyone has personal opinion.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 09:51 AM
No, they arent saints that is sure,but well everyone has personal opinion.
Personal opinion on what ?

HisSpiritLives
09-04-2012, 10:07 AM
Personal opinion on what ?

On...everything

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 10:11 AM
On...everything
Well.. That was pretty Vague.

What does this have to do with your previous post ??

HisSpiritLives
09-04-2012, 10:21 AM
Well.. That was pretty Vague.

What does this have to do with your previous post ??

We are going little off topic,but i am not sure i understand your question?

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 10:26 AM
We are going little off topic,but i am not sure i understand your question?
No we`re not..

You replied to my post saying that the Assassins are not saints and that every one has a personal opinion..

Yes OK I know that, but personal opinion on what ? Is it related to what I said in my post regarding your view ? or was that just something random out of nowhere just to end this ?

HisSpiritLives
09-04-2012, 10:35 AM
No we`re not..

You replied to my post saying that the Assassins are not saints and that every one has a personal opinion..

Yes OK I know that, but personal opinion on what ? Is it related to what I said in my post regarding your view ? or was that just something random out of nowhere just to end this ?

OK maybe we post to much , my opinion assassins arent saints but they wouldnt do litteraly ,,everything,, for their cause ,and you said ,,they will ally anything,, i dont think that is same as inflitrate. That much from me

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 10:40 AM
OK maybe we post to much , my opinion assassins arent saints but they wouldnt do litteraly ,,everything,, for their cause ,and you said ,,they will ally anything,, i dont think that is same as inflitrate. That much from me
Ah well, these types of matters do not have "Opinions" integrated in them, see they deal with facts. and here is a fact.. The Assassins DID Infiltrate organizations to further Agenda and made Alliances to cover their Identity yet still operate freely..

What you refer to as opinion is not one, its rather.... I don't know, Nonacceptance ? or Denial ? Whichever case you put it..

HisSpiritLives
09-04-2012, 10:48 AM
Ah well, these types of matters do not have "Opinions" integrated in them, see they deal with facts. and here is a fact.. The Assassins DID Infiltrate organizations to further Agenda and made Alliances to cover their Identity yet still operate freely..

What you refer to as opinion is not one, its rather.... I don't know, Nonacceptance ? or Denial ? Whichever case you put it..

OK you dont understand what i am trying to say ,,they would do litteraly everything for their cause,, you dont have proof for that statment,or maybe i am not wise enough to unerstand.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 10:52 AM
OK you dont understand what i am trying to say ,,they would do litteraly everything for their cause,, you dont have proof for that statment,or maybe i am not wise enough to unerstand.
What ? Just play the games.. They will do ANYTHING to reach their goal, which is freedom, Peace and stopping templars. The Assassins Infiltrated the Roman Government during Cesar`s Rule, they had allies-- Ugh im not gonna say this whole thing again.. I gave my "Proof" now unless you give me something productively countering, you and I should end this argument now..

HisSpiritLives
09-04-2012, 10:58 AM
What ? Just play the games.. They will do ANYTHING to reach their goal, which is freedom, Peace and stopping templars. The Assassins Infiltrated the Roman Government during Cesar`s Rule, they had allies-- Ugh im not gonna say this whole thing again.. I gave my "Proof" now unless you give me something productively countering, you and I should end this argument now..

OK it seems like we dont understand each other .Would they slain whole city for reaching their goals?

De Filosoof
09-04-2012, 11:10 AM
Now why did you add that ?

How can they be spiritual when they seek to liberate from invisible bindings ? "I long for the day when men would turn away from invisible monsters and embrace a more logical explanation" -Altair
That`s Altair`s stand point, so apparently it applies to all. The Assassins are, Unarguably, a Political movement, just not what Modern Politics represents right now. They have their own Political Ideology..

I'm talking about real spirituality, not some kind of belief system or god.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 11:12 AM
I'm talking about real spirituality, not some kind of belief system or god.
Spirituality falls in the same category as Invisible bindings and doesn't really go with the "Logical" views Altair was hoping for..

De Filosoof
09-04-2012, 11:22 AM
Spirituality falls in the same category as Invisible bindings and doesn't really go with the "Logical" views Altair was hoping for..

Well, i consider myself pretty spiritual and a logical/realistic thinker at the same time so i don't know why someone can't be both.
I think Connor can be considered a pretty spiritual person because he's far more rooted to the earth than most persons are and probably respects nature way more than other people.

My view of spirituality is when someone is one with nature, respects it and tries to understand it.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 11:26 AM
Well, i consider myself pretty spiritual and a logical/realistic thinker at the same time so i don't know why someone can't be both.
I think Connor can be considered a pretty spiritual person because he's far more rooted to the earth than most persons are and probably respects nature way more than other people.

My view of spirituality is when someone is one with nature, respects it and tries to understand it.
I understand, but that doesn't seem like the View of the Assassins, sure some Assassins might adhere to it, but it is not the main Principle of their Ideology, which is "Nothing is true, Everything is Permitted"

That Concept and its Explanation basically have nothing to do with Nature, its a realization of the flaws of humanity and its Creations, how they can uphold better examples in a flawed system. It does not belong to spirituality, i.e nature in any way concrete..

De Filosoof
09-04-2012, 11:33 AM
I understand, but that doesn't seem like the View of the Assassins, sure some Assassins might adhere to it, but it is not the main Principle of their Ideology, which is "Nothing is true, Everything is Permitted"

That Concept and its Explanation basically have nothing to do with Nature, its a realization of the flaws of humanity and its Creations, how they can uphold better examples in a flawed system. It does not belong to spirituality, i.e nature in any way concrete..

yeah, you're right :).

LightRey
09-04-2012, 01:11 PM
The Assassin Order seems to follow the ideals of socialism and I'm quite sure that they in fact supported the rise of socialism very much (I'd have to check to make sure, but I seem to remember the glyphs indicating as much).

Socialism is basically the transition between capitalism and the original idea of communism (so not what we call communism nowadays). The idea is simply to change from a capitalistic society to one in which everybody is and can be treated equally (i.e. without any complications regarding human nature, corruption, etc.). In the original socialist view, communism was the ideal society ruled by reason, honesty and fairness and in the marxist view such a society was to arise after the struggle between the corporations and the working man/the aristocracy and the common people ended and things basically balanced out.

The communism we speak of today however was forced, by revolution, by political games, by, well, force. The struggle did not so much end as that the situation was turned around, like it so often does in revolutions (see the French revolution for instance), hence the name. Ergo, the balance has not yet been reached and we can at this point not speak of "true" communism in the socialist view and as such it does not align with the ideals of the Assassins.

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 02:09 PM
Now LightRey did a very good post....

and Assassin_M the other guy was saying that Infiltrate and Ally With is TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Now LightRey did a very good post....

and Assassin_M the other guy was saying that Infiltrate and Ally With is TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
I know that..

De Filosoof
09-04-2012, 02:11 PM
The Assassin Order seems to follow the ideals of socialism and I'm quite sure that they in fact supported the rise of socialism very much (I'd have to check to make sure, but I seem to remember the glyphs indicating as much).

Socialism is basically the transition between capitalism and the original idea of communism (so not what we call communism nowadays). The idea is simply to change from a capitalistic society to one in which everybody is and can be treated equally (i.e. without any complications regarding human nature, corruption, etc.). In the original socialist view, communism was the ideal society ruled by reason, honesty and fairness and in the marxist view such a society was to arise after the struggle between the corporations and the working man/the aristocracy and the common people ended and things basically balanced out.

The communism we speak of today however was forced, by revolution, by political games, by, well, force. The struggle did not so much end as that the situation was turned around, like it so often does in revolutions (see the French revolution for instance), hence the name. Ergo, the balance has not yet been reached and we can at this point not speak of "true" communism in the socialist view and as such it does not align with the ideals of the Assassins.

What if they don't think in "isms" ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew7i4ESP9K0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHiy4EuUD2U

LightRey
09-04-2012, 02:14 PM
What if they don't think in "isms" ?
An "ism" isn't really something to think "in". I'm not saying the Assassins are in any way socialists, just that they seem to largely if not completely agree with them.

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 02:15 PM
just that they seem to largely if not completely agree with them.
Thank you..

The Assassins can agree with a Political Ideology, but they have their own, different one..

HisSpiritLives
09-04-2012, 05:06 PM
Now LightRey did a very good post....

and Assassin_M the other guy was saying that Infiltrate and Ally With is TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

That would be me , so?

EDIT: Are you some kind of judge or translator?

Sushiglutton
09-04-2012, 05:38 PM
For me below speech summarize the core of the Assassin's political standpoint. Don't follow authorities. Think critical, learn for yourself. We are free to follow are own path. It's our ability to choose whatever we think is true that makes us human. To me the ideology that best matches these ideals is liberalism.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4D8su84xRM

De Filosoof
09-04-2012, 07:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4D8su84xRM

I love that speech :)

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 08:16 PM
That would be me , so?

EDIT: Are you some kind of judge or translator?

Wtf? Judge?.... And i just explained him what you meant because he didn't understood your point, and sadly, he does it very often here in the forum ._.


For me below speech summarize the core of the Assassin's political standpoint. Don't follow authorities. Think critical, learn for yourself. We are free to follow are own path. It's our ability to choose whatever we think is true that makes us human. To me the ideology that best matches these ideals is liberalism.


The best speech i've ever heard :D

Assassin_M
09-04-2012, 08:19 PM
Wtf? Judge?.... And i just explained him what you meant because he didn't understood your point, and sadly, he does it very often here in the forum ._.





Ah you don't talk about me directly or indirectly, K, buddy ? Got some remarks ? Keep em to yourself..:)

De Filosoof
09-04-2012, 08:22 PM
Wtf? Judge?.... And i just explained him what you meant because he didn't understood your point, and sadly, he does it very often here in the forum ._.



The best speech i've ever heard :D

Then you haven't heard anything yet ;).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMIcOEg9Lpc

POP1Fan
09-04-2012, 08:27 PM
Then you haven't heard anything yet ;).


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMIcOEg9Lpc

Was just about to post it xD

Ork3n
09-04-2012, 08:34 PM
Until minute 2 i wasn't liking the speech that much,.... he didn't sound like speaking with emotion ...

POP1Fan
09-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Until minute 2 i wasn't liking the speech that much,.... he didn't sound like speaking with emotion ...

It's just that style the 70's had. If you don't see the genious of this speech I am sorry for you.

LoyalACFan
09-04-2012, 10:30 PM
It's just that style the 70's had. If you don't see the genious of this speech I am sorry for you.

Um... the 70s?

Ork3n
09-05-2012, 02:22 AM
It's just that style the 70's had. If you don't see the genious of this speech I am sorry for you.

Man, a speech is not only made of words, if you say a bunch of words without feeling them it'll never be a good speech. That's why until minute 2 that speech wasn't that good, it was just a bunch of words without emotion, then he started to speak with emotion and the speech got life.

Sorry if you don't understand UNTIL ;)

tcplotts
12-17-2012, 07:15 AM
seriously, this is an actual thread? is there no way to bury the red baiting 50s? americans...sheesh...a commie under every mattress.

Assassin_M
12-17-2012, 07:16 AM
seriously, this is an actual thread? is there no way to bury the red baiting 50s? americans...sheesh...a commie under every mattress.Are you high ??You bring this back just to say that?????

medavroog
12-17-2012, 07:20 AM
would they ally themselves as being Far-left, marxist, communist etc...

do you view the assassins as being a far-left orginization

I think the Assassins are a Dead-Centre group...

tlgeer
12-27-2012, 12:03 AM
Why are you attempting to bring politics into a video game?

Assassin_M
12-27-2012, 12:17 AM
Why are you attempting to bring politics into a video game?
Why did you bring this thread back ???? -_-

tlgeer
12-27-2012, 12:21 AM
Apparently some of you have started thinking that this game is more than a game. It is not. There actually were Knights Templar and, for the most part, they were not bad guys. But you cannot make a very good game out of that, can you? If you want to have a historical or philosophical discussion educate yourselves first on the subject.

While many laugh at Wikipedia, read the sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_%28Freemasonry%29

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm
http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/knights-templar.htm
http://www.templarhistory.com/
http://www.theknightstemplar.info/

As for the person who asked if the Templar's were leftist, this is a game. This is only a game. Don't get it confused with reality. If you are equating this game with reality then you need, IMO, to get psychological help in learning the difference between reality and fiction.

Video games are fiction.

Assassin_M
12-27-2012, 12:28 AM
Apparently some of you have started thinking that this game is more than a game. It is not. There actually were Knights Templar and, for the most part, they were not bad guys. But you cannot make a very good game out of that, can you? If you want to have a historical or philosophical discussion educate yourselves first on the subject.

While many laugh at Wikipedia, read the sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm
http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/knights-templar.htm
http://www.templarhistory.com/
http://www.theknightstemplar.info/

As for the person who asked if the Templar's were leftist, this is a game. This is only a game. Don't get it confused with reality. If you are equating this game with reality then you need, IMO, to get psychological help in learning the difference between reality and fiction.

Video games are fiction.
This is the MOST "YOU DON'T SAY" post I`v ever seen in my entire life..

TheHumanTowel
12-27-2012, 12:40 AM
Apparently some of you have started thinking that this game is more than a game. It is not. There actually were Knights Templar and, for the most part, they were not bad guys. But you cannot make a very good game out of that, can you? If you want to have a historical or philosophical discussion educate yourselves first on the subject.

While many laugh at Wikipedia, read the sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm
http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/knights-templar.htm
http://www.templarhistory.com/
http://www.theknightstemplar.info/

As for the person who asked if the Templar's were leftist, this is a game. This is only a game. Don't get it confused with reality. If you are equating this game with reality then you need, IMO, to get psychological help in learning the difference between reality and fiction.

Video games are fiction.
Wow thanks for clearing that up. I was really confused on Dec 21st when there was no news of a solar flare or when they didn't mention Rodrigo Borgia's magical apple in history class.

playassassins1
12-27-2012, 01:34 AM
Apparently some of you have started thinking that this game is more than a game. It is not. There actually were Knights Templar and, for the most part, they were not bad guys. But you cannot make a very good game out of that, can you? If you want to have a historical or philosophical discussion educate yourselves first on the subject.

While many laugh at Wikipedia, read the sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry)

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14493a.htm
http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/knights-templar.htm
http://www.templarhistory.com/
http://www.theknightstemplar.info/

As for the person who asked if the Templar's were leftist, this is a game. This is only a game. Don't get it confused with reality. If you are equating this game with reality then you need, IMO, to get psychological help in learning the difference between reality and fiction.

Video games are fiction.

Are you serious!? All this time I thought the Assassins were real! I even went on a trip to finding the Apple of eden! Wow man, you've opened my eyes for sure. If it wasn't for you, I'd still be thinking TWCB really existed.

Funbun777
12-27-2012, 01:50 AM
The assassins aren't inheitly left

If anything there most like libertarians (on the right)

Although it kinda makes sense that they would be somewhat liberal in the modern times (seeing as abstergo is big business)

For the record I'm a conservative American so This post may be somewhat biased

(please no political flame war I just thought I would state my position so no one would accuse me of anything, its not personal some of my best friends are liberal )

SkiesSeven
12-27-2012, 02:53 AM
For the record I'm a conservative American so This post may be somewhat biased


You need to ignore all the fictional stuff and read up on some actual history. The Hashashin were Shi`ite. The original Assassins had religious goals, as well as political.

Assassin_M
12-27-2012, 02:56 AM
You need to ignore all the fictional stuff and read up on some actual history. The Hashashin were Shi`ite. The original Assassins had religious goals, as well as political.
We ARE talking from a fictional stand point..Not the real life one..What`s wrong with you people ?? First, someone comes in and says we`re idiots because "It`s just a video game" and now you...What ?? Can`t we discuss the FICTIONAL universe that is BASED on History, politics and religion ???????

SkiesSeven
12-27-2012, 09:31 AM
We ARE talking from a fictional stand point..Not the real life one..What`s wrong with you people ?? First, someone comes in and says we`re idiots because "It`s just a video game" and now you...What ?? Can`t we discuss the FICTIONAL universe that is BASED on History, politics and religion ???????

So long as you and others make the distinction clear, you can talk fiction all you want. Unlike the argument the poster above you had made, when he compared the Assassin's Order to 'Libertarians' . No ground for it in reality.

Assassin_M
12-27-2012, 09:38 AM
No ground for it in reality.
Exactly...That`s what we`re saying. Based on their Ideologies, Philosophies and actions IN THE FICTIONAL UNIVERSE, what are the FICTIONAL Assassins most like in the Modern REAL LIFE AND FICTIONAL UNIVERSE Political scene ?? Because Political Ideologies of REAL LIFE are reflected in the game`s FICTIONAL UNIVERSE..

MasterAssasin84
12-27-2012, 02:08 PM
Definately an No No !! Communism and Marxism are very oppresive Regimes !! Assassins Fight for Freedom and humanity - as stated in the Assassins Creed Everything is permited Ezio descibes this as we are all shepards of our own destiny and wether the outcome is good or bad .

I would say the Templars are more alligned to Communist and Marxist values and Beliefs.

ZusupaTanhi
12-27-2012, 02:23 PM
Hmm. I think the Templars actually might be more like the big business owners who make people work in awful conditions. You know, like the rich moneymakers when Capitalism first began to appear. Anyone else thinking that?

D.I.D.
12-27-2012, 02:35 PM
Definately an No No !! Communism and Marxism are very oppresive Regimes !! Assassins Fight for Freedom and humanity - as stated in the Assassins Creed Everything is permited Ezio descibes this as we are all shepards of our own destiny and wether the outcome is good or bad .

I would say the Templars are more alligned to Communist and Marxist values and Beliefs.

No. Abstergo, a fantasy version of an arch capitalist pharmaceutical company in the style of Glaxo-SmithKline with added evil, would not be in support of many (if any) aspects of Marxism (which, incidentally, does not have any single position). Would Abstergo welcome common ownership of its capital? Would it champion common ownership of the means of production throughout society? Would an organisation with any socialist leanings have backed Nixon, Bush and Thatcher, as the Templar organisation is said to do in the AC fiction?

Marxism arose in opposition to the notion of a wealthy minority snowballing its wealth and political power, when such surplus should be credited to the workers ("to each according to his contribution"). Marx was not devising a system so much as he was making a prediction: that the social unease created by capitalism would give way to socialism, and that socialism would be a stepping stone to a stateless society in which every citizen had an equal stake. None of that has anything to do with the fictional Templars. Their position is that their small group of elites must hold and maintain power in order to run things effectively.

ACB already showed you where each side is placed on the political spectrum for the purposes of the fiction. If you don't like it, remember it's all a fictional alternative universe, so you don't have to push the bad guys onto whichever political side you dislike in real life.