PDA

View Full Version : White actress to voice Liberation's black heroine - thoughts?



SixKeys
08-30-2012, 02:53 PM
http://kotaku.com/5939009/white-actress-will-voice-assassins-creeds-black-heroine?tag=assassins-creed

I think this part of the article sums up the concerns best:
"It's not about the quality of Natcohenny's work. Her narration sounds great in the clip above, affecting a French lilt well and coming across with genuine passion and drama. But it probably wouldn't have cost Ubisoft anything extra to find an African-American woman or a black actress from a Francophonic background to perform Aveline's dialogue either."

Black actors are still in a disadvantage compared to white actors when it comes to getting jobs and recognition. Considering the extra trouble Ubisoft went through to get a real native American to voice Connor in AC3, IMO they could have done the same for the African-American community in Liberation.

SteelCity999
08-30-2012, 03:05 PM
With no visuals needed, I don't think it's really an issue. When you are talking about the native american languages however, I think you run into a problem finding people outside of that culture that can speak and use that language correctly - they can sort of provide editing on the fly to Ubi as well. You never know what the casting people are looking for either or how they go about doing it. They could never see who the person is until after a decision is made, basing their decision strictly on linguistics and voice. Plus, it's all about who responds too.

To your point, I think there is more of a problem with parts being written for minority actors and actresses that are good and not stereotypical statements. I think Alex alluded to that in an interview that he was happy to showcase a minority as the lead character.

EscoBlades
08-30-2012, 03:08 PM
Much ado about nothing really. This coming from a black, african male.

rileypoole1234
08-30-2012, 03:14 PM
I thought she was black in the trailer... So it doesn't really matter I guess.

Serrachio
08-30-2012, 03:38 PM
Kotaku likes trying to pull a controversy out their ***.

When it comes to the Native American speech in AC3, it would be understandable for them to hire a Native American actor. But for a French accent, they don't need to specifically hire a black female voice actor just because Aveline is black.

From the gameplay video that features Aveline speaking, I would have been none the wiser if the article hadn't been posted.

menumaxibestof
08-30-2012, 03:39 PM
If they are playing on Aveline's French accent, why didn't they choose a French actress to voice her ?

Serrachio
08-30-2012, 03:41 PM
If they are playing on Aveline's french accent, why didn't they choose a french actress to voice her ?

Because, voice actors can mimic a French accent with enough training. Learning a whole language and trying to perform it without making mistakes is much harder.

freddie_1897
08-30-2012, 03:53 PM
wait, her name is natcohenny?

where the hell is she from?

menumaxibestof
08-30-2012, 03:59 PM
Because, voice actors can mimic a French accent with enough training. Learning a whole language and trying to perform it without making mistakes is much harder.

There are French actresses who speak english very well. The accent would have been authentic (like in Noah's case).
But never mind, if Sarah Natcohenny manages to mimic a believable French accent, that's ok.

Rakudaton
08-30-2012, 03:59 PM
Would ya mind if I put just a TEENSY fly in your ointment by pointing out that Aveline, to my knowledge, is half black?

Given that, there is no reason to favour a black actress over a white one. To do so, in fact, could be considered discrimination, which I believe is frowned upon.

freddie_1897
08-30-2012, 04:15 PM
Would ya mind if I put just a TEENSY fly in your ointment by pointing out that Aveline, to my knowledge, is half black?

Given that, there is no reason to favour a black actress over a white one. To do so, in fact, could be considered discrimination, which I believe is frowned upon.
i agree with you but that last point doesn't really work because it works the same way if a white actress was favoured over a black one

Serrachio
08-30-2012, 04:17 PM
i agree with you but that last point doesn't really work because it works the same way if a white actress was favoured over a black one

I'm pretty sure Sarah Natochenny was hired for her experience, instead of her skin colour.

freddie_1897
08-30-2012, 04:21 PM
I'm pretty sure Sarah Natochenny was hired for her experience, instead of her skin colour.
i know, but if a black actress was chosen it also wouldn't be because of her skin colour (hopefully), the point rakudaton made wasn't a great point because it can be reversed and work in both ways

LoyalACFan
08-30-2012, 04:27 PM
Would ya mind if I put just a TEENSY fly in your ointment by pointing out that Aveline, to my knowledge, is half black?

Given that, there is no reason to favour a black actress over a white one. To do so, in fact, could be considered discrimination, which I believe is frowned upon.

Exactly what I was going to say. She's half white, so either way they're being accurate, I guess. In any case, this is a pointless debate.

kriegerdesgottes
08-30-2012, 05:00 PM
I thought the article was ridiculous when I read it yesterday. Why in the world does it even matter what skin color the actress has? Should she have to be black because the character is so that she can be politically correct? If it was a black woman doing the voice for a white character I doubt this article would even exist because no one would care. The article even points out how often women do roles for men or boys like in the simpsons or several other shows so why does this even matter?

pacmanate
08-30-2012, 05:01 PM
Wellll I don't see how it matters... as long as the voice sounds great who cares.

deskp
08-30-2012, 05:11 PM
Is she a french acress? cause its the vocie that matters not her looks.

Connor being voiced by a native american is to do the voice and language justice, no?

menumaxibestof
08-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Is she a french acress? cause its the vocie that matters not her looks.

Nope, she's American.

POP1Fan
08-30-2012, 05:51 PM
Wow... this is very very stupid? So what if he is voiced by a white actress? If anything this is more racist, you know, a white man can't voice a black character herp derp.
Let's put it this way, if Aveline was white and she would have been voiced by a black actress no one would care. That's Kotaku for you guys, a bunch of *******es.

Mr_Shade
08-30-2012, 06:11 PM
Much ado about nothing really. This coming from a black, african male.
Indeed...




in reply to the thread:

If the voice actor is the best one, does it really matter ?


I would rather have the best person for the job - no matter the colour of their skin.. :)


I'm 110% the team are not racist - if that's what the article in trying to put across, in a underlying tone..

SixKeys
08-30-2012, 06:26 PM
To the people saying the actor's skin color doesn't matter, I will repeat the point I made in my original post: because black people get snubbed far more often than white people when it comes to getting lead roles anywhere. Normally I would agree that a company should hire the best person for the job regardless of ethnicity, but in an industry where black lead characters are already few and far in between (yes, I know Aveline is half-black), I think it would be a progressive move to hire a black actress for the role.

SteelCity999
08-30-2012, 06:30 PM
I would rather have the best person for the job - no matter the colour of their skin.. :)



I agree. Unfortunately, not all of use are color blind and like to make make excuses for the way everything is. The more people pay attention to it, the more it seems it sticks around.

Gespenst1246
08-30-2012, 06:50 PM
but by choosing a black actress over a white actress just because shes black would be racsist as well since your choosing based on ethnicity even if its considered a "progressive move"

pacmanate
08-30-2012, 06:56 PM
Indeed...




in reply to the thread:

If the voice actor is the best one, does it really matter ?


I would rather have the best person for the job - no matter the colour of their skin.. :)


I'm 110% the team are not racist - if that's what the article in trying to put across, in a underlying tone..

To add to this:

"“Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.”

BATISTABUS
08-30-2012, 06:57 PM
I'm sure this will upset some people, and I'm not going to deny the problems that exist in white-washing actors, but I don't think it applies equally to animated work. In a field where women can voice men of all ages, I don't think a problem exists here. The best actor or actress should get the part.

Plus...she's half French? It's not like Aveline is an African native. It's not like it's some white guy trying to do a "gangsta" voice.

Mr_Shade
08-30-2012, 06:57 PM
To add to this:

"“Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.”
indeed...


Shame certain people always forget that.. but then again, it's not news is it ;)

notafanboy
08-30-2012, 06:59 PM
stupid thread is stupid...

itsamea-mario
08-30-2012, 07:01 PM
Like it matters...

SteelCity999
08-30-2012, 07:18 PM
Al Sharpton is on it.....no more to say.

Assassin_M
08-30-2012, 07:37 PM
Kotaku ? I just trashed them on twitter for that stupid article..

POP1Fan
08-30-2012, 07:50 PM
but by choosing a black actress over a white actress just because shes black would be racsist as well since your choosing based on ethnicity even if its considered a "progressive move"

This.

stingray10
08-30-2012, 07:56 PM
To be honest who cares whether she is black or not? As long as she can do a french accent it doesn't matter...as of her skin colour Ubisoft should neither be for or against as she is just doing a voice over.

Rakudaton
08-30-2012, 08:23 PM
i know, but if a black actress was chosen it also wouldn't be because of her skin colour (hopefully), the point rakudaton made wasn't a great point because it can be reversed and work in both ways

Actually it was a pretty pertinent point thank you very much; the fact that you failed to grasp it doesn't diminish its relevance.

Let me dumb it down a little. The article and OP are suggesting that Ubi *should* have chosen a black actress because Aveline is black. I am observing that had Ubisoft said to themselves "Let's hire ourselves a black actress" THAT would have been discrimination. Not if they hired the best actress and she happened to be black.

So no, it doesn't work both ways. Please try and exercise a little intelligence in future before you call someone out on something that they weren't actually saying.

Assassin_M
08-30-2012, 08:27 PM
Actually it was a pretty pertinent point thank you very much; the fact that you failed to grasp it doesn't diminish its relevance.

Let me dumb it down a little. The article and OP are suggesting that Ubi *should* have chosen a black actress because Aveline is black. I am observing that had Ubisoft said to themselves "Let's hire ourselves a black actress" THAT would have been discrimination. Not if they hired the best actress and she happened to be black.

So no, it doesn't work both ways. Please try and exercise a little intelligence in future before you call someone out on something that they weren't actually saying.
That post wasn't meant for the OP or the article..

How does it feel now ? knowing you`re not the smartest around ? You should choose your words before you decide to slam someone for no apparent reason...

I mean.. He just disagreed with you and you basically called him stupid... sure he may have misunderstood, but it still makes you look like an Idiot..

DarkSolitude-X
08-30-2012, 08:35 PM
A black voice actress is voicing the character of Diana Burnwood (Hitman), and the character of Diana is a white redhead.

My point(s) are this: what does it matter? and why is the pigmentation of a person skin of any relevance?

Stupid, just plain stupid.

Assassin_M
08-30-2012, 08:42 PM
Stupid, just plain stupid.
THIS !!

I mean why are we even arguing about this ? I supposed that if this was brought here, everyone would just call it stupid, but no I actually found people ARGUING this.. How ? What is even there to argue ? 2 very valid points this thread is just crazy..

1- This is Kotaku..
2- That Article is just Unintelligent, walking the VERY fine line of racial discrimination, and isn't even valid to the point of voice acting..

kriegerdesgottes
08-30-2012, 08:53 PM
A black voice actress is voicing the character of Diana Burnwood (Hitman), and the character of Diana is a white redhead.

My point(s) are this: what does it matter? and why is the pigmentation of a person skin of any relevance?

Stupid, just plain stupid.

Exactly I was going to make this exact point but I wasn't sure what her name was. No one made a stupid article about that.

Rakudaton
08-30-2012, 09:26 PM
That post wasn't meant for the OP or the article..

How does it feel now ? knowing you`re not the smartest around ? You should choose your words before you decide to slam someone for no apparent reason...

I mean.. He just disagreed with you and you basically called him stupid... sure he may have misunderstood, but it still makes you look like an Idiot..

Clearly this is me being an idiot (obviously), but I fail to see what you're talking about. What post are you talking about? How on earth does this change what I said?

I stand by what I said. If you can find a flaw with it and possibly, I don't know, STATE that flaw, be my guest.

Maybe consider anger management classes too. This isn't the first time I've seen you spark up... or the tenth...

Assassin_M
08-30-2012, 09:32 PM
Clearly this is me being an idiot (obviously), but I fail to see what you're talking about. What post are you talking about? How on earth does this change what I said?

I stand by what I said. If you can find a flaw with it and possibly, I don't know, STATE that flaw, be my guest.

Maybe consider anger management classes too. This isn't the first time I've seen you spark up... or the tenth...
Oh Wow you owned me.. I mean really I'm so speechless i`m gonna pwn you right now..

I agree with what you said regarding the article, you imbecile, I just don't like how you slammed the guy and called him stupid for no reason... it was harsh and uncalled for, really..

And anger Management ? spark up ? I wont even comment on that xD

MetalCreed
08-30-2012, 09:32 PM
Isn't Aveline half French?

What's the big deal?

ShadowRage41
08-30-2012, 10:01 PM
I doubt color was ever a consideration in who they chose as the voice actress. They just chose the person who had the type of voice they wanted to use. This is a non story.

morpheusPrime08
08-30-2012, 10:47 PM
Did this honestly need it's own thread? Not a big deal to me.

pacmanate
08-30-2012, 11:02 PM
lalalallala

“Inspired by historical events and characters, this work of fiction was designed, developed and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs.”

SixKeys
08-30-2012, 11:53 PM
I didn't post this article to say Kotaku was wrong or right. I was hoping for some semi-intelligent discussion on the use of minorities (characters and actors) in video games, but this being the Ubisoft forums, I guess that was too much to expect. Now let's all get back to the really important stuff, like the 157th thread about "will Connor have a hidden blade" or whether AC3 will have any snowmen.

Assassin_M
08-30-2012, 11:56 PM
I didn't post this article to say Kotaku was wrong or right. I was hoping for some semi-intelligent discussion on the use of minorities (characters and actors) in video games, but this being the Ubisoft forums, I guess that was too much to expect. Now let's all get back to the really important stuff, like the 157th thread about "will Connor have a hidden blade" or whether AC3 will have any snowmen.
Congratulations;)

You just called Everyone here Unintelligent..

Great Job:D

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:00 AM
Congratulations;)

You just called Everyone here Unintelligent..

Great Job:D

Did I? I suppose it's a matter of how you read it. Let's just say these forums don't have a shining track record when it comes to discussing topics like racism and sexism in an intelligent manner, so yes, I suppose my expectations were a little high.

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:03 AM
Did I? I suppose it's a matter of how you read it. Let's just say these forums don't have a shining track record when it comes to discussing topics like racism and sexism in an intelligent manner, so yes, I suppose my expectations were a little high.
If everyone here does not know how to discuss Intelligent topics like Racism and sexism, then I truly find it hard to believe that ANYONE from such a people can interpret your post as anything but "Everyone here is Unintelligent"

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:05 AM
If everyone here does not know how to discuss Intelligent topics like Racism and sexism, then I truly find it hard to believe that ANYONE from such a people can interpret your post as anything but "Everyone here is Unintelligent"

Right. Which is why I suggested we get back to the really important topics.

MT4K
08-31-2012, 12:07 AM
I remember there being a pretty big and very civilised debate before that was about minorities and things :D.

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:08 AM
Really? When was that?

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:09 AM
Really? When was that?
Exactly One month Ago..

Gay or disabled Protagonists, Black Characters, Female leads... all of that stuff

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:10 AM
Link?

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:11 AM
Link?

I don't see how that`s my Problem..

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:13 AM
I don't see how that`s my Problem..

I didn't say it was your problem, I was asking for a link because I couldn't remember the title. It's okay, though. There's an ongoing thread on the multiplayer forums currently about sexism that proves my point quite well.

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:16 AM
I didn't say it was your problem, I was asking for a link because I couldn't remember the title. It's okay, though. There's an ongoing thread on the multiplayer forums currently about sexism that proves my point quite well.
Multi-player ?

Hahahahaahahah !! xD

Ok..

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:17 AM
Multi-player ?

Hahahahaahahah !! xD

Ok..

I said forums, didn't I? As in plural?

Also, your response could be read to say everyone on the MP forums is unintelligent. Nice hypocrisy there. :)

MT4K
08-31-2012, 12:18 AM
I think this was the thread - Click here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/688863-Do-you-think-that-the-AC-franchise-is-geared-more-towards-men-or-women-Forums)

Probably not worth reviving though :p.

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:18 AM
I said forums, didn't I? As in plural?
Yes.. Including this one...

Which had the most Intelligent and well thought theories and Discussion EVER..

That, of course, was before you, good sir, joined this place.... 2009... that was Golden

EDIT: Good luck going through 49 pages...

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:24 AM
Seriously? Please don't tell me this (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/688863-Do-you-think-that-the-AC-franchise-is-geared-more-towards-men-or-women-Forums) was the thread you were talking about too, M? The one with so many people going "I just wouldn't feel right playing as a female assassin because they're weak" or "playing as a girl might turn Desmond gay"? No wonder I had erased it from my memory...

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:27 AM
Seriously? Please don't tell me this (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/688863-Do-you-think-that-the-AC-franchise-is-geared-more-towards-men-or-women-Forums) was the thread you were talking about too, M? The one with so many people going "I just wouldn't feel right playing as a female assassin because they're weak" or "playing as a girl might turn Desmond gay"? No wonder I had erased it from my memory...
Did you go through all of it ? I don't think so..

Nicky694
08-31-2012, 12:27 AM
Don't see a problem.

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:29 AM
Did you go through all of it ? I don't think so..

I did back when it was active. (Maybe not all of it, 49 pages IS a lot, but I saw enough stupidity.)

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:31 AM
I did back when it was active. (Maybe not all of it, 49 pages IS a lot, but I saw enough stupidity.)
No, you`re choosing the stupid comments and judged the whole thing based on that..

You`re just making no sense now..

MT4K
08-31-2012, 12:34 AM
Well the point i originally made was that it remained civilised really and from what iremember it did anyway. There was also i believe another big debate that happened in one of the old off topic threads. Cannot remember what that was about specifically now. Might have been a similar subject but in a more general term. I'm pretty sure i remember lightrey being heavily involved in that one haha :D.

Assassin_M
08-31-2012, 12:35 AM
Well the point i originally made was that it remained civilised really and from what iremember it did anyway. There was also i believe another big debate that happened in one of the old off topic threads. Cannot remember what that was about specifically now. Might have been a similar subject but in a more general term. I just remember lightrey being heavily involved in that one haha :D.
Just about ANY Discussion that has LightRey involved MUST have at least 2 or 3 Intelligent posts..mostly from him

Nicky694
08-31-2012, 12:36 AM
Soooooo can a mod lock this thread? The general consensus seems to be that no one really cares and its not that big a deal.

SixKeys
08-31-2012, 12:38 AM
I think this thread has been derailed enough. Since everyone seems to think the original article is not worth discussing, I would appreciate it if a mod could close this thread.

MT4K
08-31-2012, 12:40 AM
I think this thread has been derailed enough. Since everyone seems to think the original article is not worth discussing, I would appreciate it if a mod could close this thread.

Closed at OP's Request :p.