PDA

View Full Version : Combat Questions/Ideas



BraxtonNelson
08-09-2012, 09:58 AM
im a huge archery fan and im wondering if counter kills will be open to the bow as they were with the crossbow. Feel free to speculate!

Slayer_WTF
08-09-2012, 10:02 AM
Are you referring to the manual aim?

ProletariatPleb
08-09-2012, 10:06 AM
Are you referring to the manual aim?
No, he means like if we can use the bow to counter enemies in close combat, like you could use Crossbow to counter people in Brotherhood and Revelations.

BraxtonNelson
08-09-2012, 10:17 AM
Exactly, for example you counter an enemy and Connor shoves an arrow through his neck and then pulls it out and shoots someone, etc.

Slayer_WTF
08-09-2012, 10:20 AM
I think not. The crossbow could also be used to pound the guards, but I doubt that the bow gives this ability in close combat.

Dralight
08-09-2012, 10:39 AM
Well I don't see why we wouldn't be able to draw the bow during combat, so using it for counters could definitely be a possibility. But as Slayer_WTF said, you couldn't really use the bow to pummel an enemy with it like you could with the crossbow. Personally, I'd love to just use it to quickly take down an enemy trying to flee from a fight. :p

ProletariatPleb
08-09-2012, 10:54 AM
Exactly, for example you counter an enemy and Connor shoves an arrow through his neck and then pulls it out and shoots someone, etc.
Lol, I remember that move from LOTR. Let me find and upload it.

Here we are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80HqBO1mlsQ

Slayer_WTF
08-09-2012, 10:58 AM
Oh God, it would be horrible to see..

ProletariatPleb
08-09-2012, 11:00 AM
Oh God, it would be horrible to see..
._. No, that would be awesome.

mysticheero
08-09-2012, 11:33 AM
I am actually highly amused by this idea XD

Legendz54
08-09-2012, 12:10 PM
Maybe we could have special types of arrows for the bow such as Poison arrows that slow down fleeing animals and soldiers.

crash3
08-09-2012, 01:20 PM
Despite what we have seen in demos, I hope there is still an element of manual aiming and not the lock-on system, it would add more challenge, plus it isnt fair that Connor never misses when using his pistols and yet a whole group of professinal line infantry soldiers misses connor. Ubisoft says guns were primitive in the 1700s so werent very accurate, well apply that to Connors guns too!

There are various combat features that I hope are in AC3

1. Instant detection (no silly detection meter that fills up slowly)
2. All guards have the ability to dodge randomly so combat is unpredictable
3. Opponents should be able to break your guard leaving you exposed so you have to react quickly
4. Opponents should be able to carry out lethal counters so if you attack them, they counter you and take away some of your sync in the process. (non-lethal counters should also be present for both Connor and his oppponents just to make combat more interesting, it doesnt always have to be instant kills)
5. More skilled opponents should be immune to one-hit kills during a kill streak, they should take multiple kill streak moves and multiple counters to be defeated just like the Janissaries in ACR
6. Assassination targets who decide to fight back instead of running should be more challenging than regular soldiers to defeat (classic big boss take down)
7. Professional soldiers should stand their ground and not try to run away like in previous games
8. Horse combat should not just be a button smashing exercise like in ACB, there should be counters and other skills involved, not just instant kills, Id quite like to be able to cross swords with an opponent for a good while and try to find a weakness that I can exploit.
9. If Connor has to fight any native Americans they should be a challenge as they are using similar weapons and skills to Connor
10. Each archetype of soldier shouldnt have one set of skills, there needs to be some kind of overlap between different types of soldier so combat is less predictable and we dont necessarily know what strategy to use against them
11. Escaping should be challenging therefore giving us an incentive to be stealthy and not get detected, soldiers shouldnt give up the chase so easily
12. If Connor gets into a fight in a City where there will be better communication, soldiers should continually arrive in the area to fight Connor so he is forced to escape or else he will be killed. Connor shouldnt just kill the soldiers in the immediate area then return to being incognito automatically, there need to be more consequences for fighting and not being stealthy

I think these features Ive suggested will make combat more exciting, challenging and simply more satisfying

What are your thoughts?

Slayer_WTF
08-09-2012, 02:01 PM
Despite what we have seen in demos, I hope there is still an element of manual aiming and not the lock-on system, it would add more challenge, plus it isnt fair that Connor never misses when using his pistols and yet a whole group of professinal line infantry soldiers misses connor. Ubisoft says guns were primitive in the 1700s so werent very accurate, well apply that to Connors guns too!

There are various combat features that I hope are in AC3

1. Instant detection (no silly detection meter that fills up slowly)
2. All guards have the ability to dodge randomly so combat is unpredictable
3. Opponents should be able to break your guard leaving you exposed so you have to react quickly
4. Opponents should be able to carry out lethal counters so if you attack them, they counter you and take away some of your sync in the process. (non-lethal counters should also be present for both Connor and his oppponents just to make combat more interesting, it doesnt always have to be instant kills)
5. More skilled opponents should be immune to one-hit kills during a kill streak, they should take multiple kill streak moves and multiple counters to be defeated just like the Janissaries in ACR
6. Assassination targets who decide to fight back instead of running should be more challenging than regular soldiers to defeat (classic big boss take down)
7. Professional soldiers should stand their ground and not try to run away like in previous games
8. Horse combat should not just be a button smashing exercise like in ACB, there should be counters and other skills involved, not just instant kills, Id quite like to be able to cross swords with an opponent for a good while and try to find a weakness that I can exploit.
9. If Connor has to fight any native Americans they should be a challenge as they are using similar weapons and skills to Connor
10. Each archetype of soldier shouldnt have one set of skills, there needs to be some kind of overlap between different types of soldier so combat is less predictable and we dont necessarily know what strategy to use against them
11. Escaping should be challenging therefore giving us an incentive to be stealthy and not get detected, soldiers shouldnt give up the chase so easily
12. If Connor gets into a fight in a City where there will be better communication, soldiers should continually arrive in the area to fight Connor so he is forced to escape or else he will be killed. Connor shouldnt just kill the soldiers in the immediate area then return to being incognito automatically, there need to be more consequences for fighting and not being stealthy

I think these features Ive suggested will make combat more exciting, challenging and simply more satisfying

What are your thoughts?

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/audience.gif

LoyalACFan
08-09-2012, 08:34 PM
Despite what we have seen in demos, I hope there is still an element of manual aiming and not the lock-on system, it would add more challenge, plus it isnt fair that Connor never misses when using his pistols and yet a whole group of professinal line infantry soldiers misses connor. Ubisoft says guns were primitive in the 1700s so werent very accurate, well apply that to Connors guns too!

There are various combat features that I hope are in AC3

1. Instant detection (no silly detection meter that fills up slowly)
2. All guards have the ability to dodge randomly so combat is unpredictable
3. Opponents should be able to break your guard leaving you exposed so you have to react quickly
4. Opponents should be able to carry out lethal counters so if you attack them, they counter you and take away some of your sync in the process. (non-lethal counters should also be present for both Connor and his oppponents just to make combat more interesting, it doesnt always have to be instant kills)
5. More skilled opponents should be immune to one-hit kills during a kill streak, they should take multiple kill streak moves and multiple counters to be defeated just like the Janissaries in ACR
6. Assassination targets who decide to fight back instead of running should be more challenging than regular soldiers to defeat (classic big boss take down)
7. Professional soldiers should stand their ground and not try to run away like in previous games
8. Horse combat should not just be a button smashing exercise like in ACB, there should be counters and other skills involved, not just instant kills, Id quite like to be able to cross swords with an opponent for a good while and try to find a weakness that I can exploit.
9. If Connor has to fight any native Americans they should be a challenge as they are using similar weapons and skills to Connor
10. Each archetype of soldier shouldnt have one set of skills, there needs to be some kind of overlap between different types of soldier so combat is less predictable and we dont necessarily know what strategy to use against them
11. Escaping should be challenging therefore giving us an incentive to be stealthy and not get detected, soldiers shouldnt give up the chase so easily
12. If Connor gets into a fight in a City where there will be better communication, soldiers should continually arrive in the area to fight Connor so he is forced to escape or else he will be killed. Connor shouldnt just kill the soldiers in the immediate area then return to being incognito automatically, there need to be more consequences for fighting and not being stealthy

I think these features Ive suggested will make combat more exciting, challenging and simply more satisfying

What are your thoughts?

I agree with everything here except #5. The Janissaries weren't really a challenge, it just took an annoyingly long time to kill them. I'd rather have everybody be vulnerable to killstreaks, but aggressive enough to make sure you can't just wipe everybody out without ever countering.

crash3
08-09-2012, 08:51 PM
I agree with everything here except #5. The Janissaries weren't really a challenge, it just took an annoyingly long time to kill them. I'd rather have everybody be vulnerable to killstreaks, but aggressive enough to make sure you can't just wipe everybody out without ever countering.

I see your point but the problem with that is that every opponent will therefore die just as easily no matter how skilled they are. I think only the basic soldiers should die from one killstreak hit. In fact it shouldnt be called a killstreak it should be called a combat streak, you move between opponents, weakening them bit by bit each time until they are vulnerable enough for you to deliver the killer blow


I think the developers have focused too much on designing cool new ways to KILL opponents, not necessarily FIGHT them. If we are stealthy like an assassin should be, then our targets will be more vulnerable, but if we become exposed and end up in a fight then the tables should turn in the soldiers' favour. Assassins kill, soldiers fight, combat shouldnt be a one sided massacre

BBALive
08-09-2012, 10:24 PM
Despite what we have seen in demos, I hope there is still an element of manual aiming and not the lock-on system
Manual aim is in the game, though it seems to be more similar to Red Dead Redemption's auto-aim.


it isnt fair that Connor never misses when using his pistols and yet a whole group of professinal line infantry soldiers misses connor. Ubisoft says guns were primitive in the 1700s so werent very accurate, well apply that to Connors guns too!
They're more accurate than you think. From the range Connor was using his guns, it's pretty much impossible to miss a target as large as a human. They could hit small targets from a fair distance.

1. Instant detection (no silly detection meter that fills up slowly)
Fair enough. Instant is a bit much though, they need a small bit of time to recognise and confirm that it is the right person. Just speed up detection time by a large amount.

2. All guards have the ability to dodge randomly so combat is unpredictable
I would make that archetype dependent. Larger enemies like the Scotsmen wouldn't dodge, they'd block. The idea could also be expanded so that enemies randomly (or always, depending on the archetype) dodge/block killstreaks.

3. Opponents should be able to break your guard leaving you exposed so you have to react quickly
Guarding is different now, you can't hold a button to turtle anymore, so it would be impossible to that implement in this game. It would have been good for previous games though. Unless they make it so that certain attacks cannot be countered/blocked whatsoever. In which case they'd need to give you some kind of visual aid so you can still do something about it (long start-up animation to indicate a powerful attack, something like that)

4. Opponents should be able to carry out lethal counters so if you attack them, they counter you and take away some of your sync in the process. (non-lethal counters should also be present for both Connor and his oppponents just to make combat more interesting, it doesnt always have to be instant kills)
I'd like that.

5. More skilled opponents should be immune to one-hit kills during a kill streak, they should take multiple kill streak moves and multiple counters to be defeated just like the Janissaries in ACR
That's similar to an idea I had, except, rather than it taking multiple killstreaks or multiple counters to kill them, you just had to use different moves. It retains the fluidity of the combat and makes sure it doesn't become tedious (Janissaries weren't difficult, just tedious). For example, you usually just hold the direction and press the attack button (square on PS3, X on 360), but with this feature you would be able to use all of the different face buttons during a killstreak to perform different moves. Not really a feature that adds difficulty, but it adds more variety to the combat.

6. Assassination targets who decide to fight back instead of running should be more challenging than regular soldiers to defeat (classic big boss take down)
I would like this as well.

7. Professional soldiers should stand their ground and not try to run away like in previous games
I always found that annoying, so I agree with this.

8. Horse combat should not just be a button smashing exercise like in ACB, there should be counters and other skills involved, not just instant kills, Id quite like to be able to cross swords with an opponent for a good while and try to find a weakness that I can exploit.
More complex horseback combat would be good.

9. If Connor has to fight any native Americans they should be a challenge as they are using similar weapons and skills to Connor
Agreed. They would know his moves, so it should be a more challenging fight.

10. Each archetype of soldier shouldnt have one set of skills, there needs to be some kind of overlap between different types of soldier so combat is less predictable and we dont necessarily know what strategy to use against them
So more complex archetypes? Agreed.

11. Escaping should be challenging therefore giving us an incentive to be stealthy and not get detected, soldiers shouldnt give up the chase so easily
Agreed.

12. If Connor gets into a fight in a City where there will be better communication, soldiers should continually arrive in the area to fight Connor so he is forced to escape or else he will be killed. Connor shouldnt just kill the soldiers in the immediate area then return to being incognito automatically, there need to be more consequences for fighting and not being stealthy
I agree with the last statement (more consequences for participating in open-conflict), but I'm not sure I like that specific idea/solution.

daveintheshade
08-10-2012, 06:50 AM
Hey guys,

I wanted to know if the rope dart can be used in actual combat, not just to hoist up some unlucky guard below a tree?
-if so, will it be like a "GET OVER HERE" (from MK) type trick or will it be a fully fledged weapon?

like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhW67MBO8M8

//Sorry if this was already brought up. I'm usually on the Splinter Cell side of the forums:D

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2012, 06:53 AM
Hey guys,

I wanted to know if the rope dart can be used in actual combat, not just to hoist up some unlucky guard below a tree?
-if so, will it be like a "GET OVER HERE" (from MK) type trick or will it be a fully fledged weapon?

like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhW67MBO8M8

//Sorry if this was already brought up. I'm usually on the Splinter Cell side of the forums:D
Yes it can, I can't find the exact video at the moment I will edit when I do, but yes, you can.

SixKeys
08-10-2012, 07:09 AM
Despite what we have seen in demos, I hope there is still an element of manual aiming and not the lock-on system, it would add more challenge, plus it isnt fair that Connor never misses when using his pistols and yet a whole group of professinal line infantry soldiers misses connor. Ubisoft says guns were primitive in the 1700s so werent very accurate, well apply that to Connors guns too!

There are various combat features that I hope are in AC3

1. Instant detection (no silly detection meter that fills up slowly)
2. All guards have the ability to dodge randomly so combat is unpredictable
3. Opponents should be able to break your guard leaving you exposed so you have to react quickly
4. Opponents should be able to carry out lethal counters so if you attack them, they counter you and take away some of your sync in the process. (non-lethal counters should also be present for both Connor and his oppponents just to make combat more interesting, it doesnt always have to be instant kills)
5. More skilled opponents should be immune to one-hit kills during a kill streak, they should take multiple kill streak moves and multiple counters to be defeated just like the Janissaries in ACR
6. Assassination targets who decide to fight back instead of running should be more challenging than regular soldiers to defeat (classic big boss take down)
7. Professional soldiers should stand their ground and not try to run away like in previous games
8. Horse combat should not just be a button smashing exercise like in ACB, there should be counters and other skills involved, not just instant kills, Id quite like to be able to cross swords with an opponent for a good while and try to find a weakness that I can exploit.
9. If Connor has to fight any native Americans they should be a challenge as they are using similar weapons and skills to Connor
10. Each archetype of soldier shouldnt have one set of skills, there needs to be some kind of overlap between different types of soldier so combat is less predictable and we dont necessarily know what strategy to use against them
11. Escaping should be challenging therefore giving us an incentive to be stealthy and not get detected, soldiers shouldnt give up the chase so easily
12. If Connor gets into a fight in a City where there will be better communication, soldiers should continually arrive in the area to fight Connor so he is forced to escape or else he will be killed. Connor shouldnt just kill the soldiers in the immediate area then return to being incognito automatically, there need to be more consequences for fighting and not being stealthy

I think these features Ive suggested will make combat more exciting, challenging and simply more satisfying

What are your thoughts?

I believe #12 has been confirmed to be in the game. You can see it in the Boston demo. As Connor slays soldiers, more and tougher archetypes will appear until you're forced to run and hide.

I disagree with #5. The Janissaries weren't tough, just annoying. I hated when they broke my kill streak because it didn't actually make the fight harder, just longer. There should be tough archetypes but they should be more based on smarter AI and being able to dodge and counter Connor's moves, not just blocking all the time.

LoyalACFan
08-10-2012, 08:27 AM
Yes it can, I can't find the exact video at the moment I will edit when I do, but yes, you can.

I think that video may have been taken down, but yes, I've seen it in action too. Basically, it looks like it functions like the Batclaw Slam move in Batman: Arkham City. Throw out a rope dart, stick in in a guy, yank it back in and kill him with your tomahawk.

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2012, 09:12 AM
I think that video may have been taken down, but yes, I've seen it in action too. Basically, it looks like it functions like the Batclaw Slam move in Batman: Arkham City. Throw out a rope dart, stick in in a guy, yank it back in and kill him with your tomahawk.
One guy asked me for it before so I had posted it, lol, can't find it anymore.

Okay here it is, courtesy Slayer_WTF


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fExRC9YIwSU

LoyalACFan
08-10-2012, 08:36 PM
One guy asked me for it before so I had posted it, lol, can't find it anymore.

Okay here it is, courtesy Slayer_WTF


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fExRC9YIwSU

That's not the video I was looking for, but that's the move. I had seen it previously in a full bootleg version of the Boston demo.

ProletariatPleb
08-10-2012, 08:48 PM
That's not the video I was looking for, but that's the move. I had seen it previously in a full bootleg version of the Boston demo.
I suppose you mean this video, that move appears at 5:00


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n07QuxpFUlc

LoyalACFan
08-10-2012, 08:53 PM
I suppose you mean this video, that move appears at 5:00


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n07QuxpFUlc

Yep, that's the one. I figured it may have been taken down, since it's obviously not the official version. Whoever was playing the game sucked. Badly. He got hit by like every attack, lol.

daveintheshade
08-10-2012, 11:33 PM
Cool! thanks guys.

but is that it when it comes to the rope dart? batman's grapnel gun or the hoist a dude from a tree.
I know the weapon wasn't really implemented in American combat but I was hoping to see Connor fling the rope dart around like in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhW67MBO8M8

BBALive
08-10-2012, 11:59 PM
Cool! thanks guys.

but is that it when it comes to the rope dart? batman's grapnel gun or the hoist a dude from a tree.
I know the weapon wasn't really implemented in American combat but I was hoping to see Connor fling the rope dart around like in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhW67MBO8M8

It's not a weapon (It's referred to as a tool in-game), and Connor doesn't know Kung-Fu, so no, we won't be swinging it around and using it like a regular weapon.

LoyalACFan
08-11-2012, 01:52 AM
Cool! thanks guys.

but is that it when it comes to the rope dart? batman's grapnel gun or the hoist a dude from a tree.
I know the weapon wasn't really implemented in American combat but I was hoping to see Connor fling the rope dart around like in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhW67MBO8M8

There might be other attacks, but nothing that elaborate. Maybe if there's ever an Assassin's Creed in Asia.

Serrachio
08-11-2012, 02:10 PM
Despite what we have seen in demos, I hope there is still an element of manual aiming and not the lock-on system, it would add more challenge, plus it isnt fair that Connor never misses when using his pistols and yet a whole group of professinal line infantry soldiers misses connor. Ubisoft says guns were primitive in the 1700s so werent very accurate, well apply that to Connors guns too!

There are various combat features that I hope are in AC3

1. Instant detection (no silly detection meter that fills up slowly)
2. All guards have the ability to dodge randomly so combat is unpredictable
3. Opponents should be able to break your guard leaving you exposed so you have to react quickly
4. Opponents should be able to carry out lethal counters so if you attack them, they counter you and take away some of your sync in the process. (non-lethal counters should also be present for both Connor and his oppponents just to make combat more interesting, it doesnt always have to be instant kills)
5. More skilled opponents should be immune to one-hit kills during a kill streak, they should take multiple kill streak moves and multiple counters to be defeated just like the Janissaries in ACR
6. Assassination targets who decide to fight back instead of running should be more challenging than regular soldiers to defeat (classic big boss take down)
7. Professional soldiers should stand their ground and not try to run away like in previous games
8. Horse combat should not just be a button smashing exercise like in ACB, there should be counters and other skills involved, not just instant kills, Id quite like to be able to cross swords with an opponent for a good while and try to find a weakness that I can exploit.
9. If Connor has to fight any native Americans they should be a challenge as they are using similar weapons and skills to Connor
10. Each archetype of soldier shouldnt have one set of skills, there needs to be some kind of overlap between different types of soldier so combat is less predictable and we dont necessarily know what strategy to use against them
11. Escaping should be challenging therefore giving us an incentive to be stealthy and not get detected, soldiers shouldnt give up the chase so easily
12. If Connor gets into a fight in a City where there will be better communication, soldiers should continually arrive in the area to fight Connor so he is forced to escape or else he will be killed. Connor shouldnt just kill the soldiers in the immediate area then return to being incognito automatically, there need to be more consequences for fighting and not being stealthy

I think these features Ive suggested will make combat more exciting, challenging and simply more satisfying

What are your thoughts?

For these ideas, I agree, though I think I could comment on some.

1. I would like to keep suspicion in AC3, but when Connor commits a crime of any type in a guard's view, they should instantly react. While this is already in the series when you kill people, guards should at least try to intervene in brawls, by interrupting a conflict between Connor and an NPC, and try and hold the Assassin back if it's a fist-fight with a guard. For thievery, it should result in the guard trying to run after and grab Connor to arrest him, only drawing their musket out if the Assassin gets too far away and they attempt a pot-shot to stop him from moving.

3. When it comes to Agile enemies, they shouldn't be able to break Connor's guard in one attempt, but they should be eager to land a sneaky attack in if the Assassin's guard had been broken. During this time, Connor should only be able to dodge, as well as being able to only use non-lethal counters, though it should require a small delay.

4. I wouldn't mind guards performing lethal counters (i.e. physically killing Connor in an animation), but only if the Assassin's health is very low and the player doesn't attempt to dodge it.

5. While I'd like some enemies to be immune to an instant kill, I would rather have a few archetypes (e.g. Hardy) require 2-3 counters to fully kill them, with lower ranked guards with a Hardy archetype blocking one counter-kill attempt, and higher ranked Hardy guards blocking two counter-kill attempts. Finally, I think at least one assassination target (closer to endgame) that can take a lot of counter-kill attempts could be present in AC3, similar to Cesare Borgia.

7. I would rather have a soldier run away to grab some more back-up than fully run away, but that should only be one guard in a grouped combat scenario.

12. To add to this, guards should be on high alert in the immediate area, showing suspicion on both regular citizens and Connor. On spotting him, the guard could seize him by the wrist, and Connor could push them away, making them shout (and possibly fall over) and all the nearby guards closing in on his location.

crash3
08-11-2012, 08:04 PM
For these ideas, I agree, though I think I could comment on some.

1. I would like to keep suspicion in AC3, but when Connor commits a crime of any type in a guard's view, they should instantly react. While this is already in the series when you kill people, guards should at least try to intervene in brawls, by interrupting a conflict between Connor and an NPC, and try and hold the Assassin back if it's a fist-fight with a guard. For thievery, it should result in the guard trying to run after and grab Connor to arrest him, only drawing their musket out if the Assassin gets too far away and they attempt a pot-shot to stop him from moving.

3. When it comes to Agile enemies, they shouldn't be able to break Connor's guard in one attempt, but they should be eager to land a sneaky attack in if the Assassin's guard had been broken. During this time, Connor should only be able to dodge, as well as being able to only use non-lethal counters, though it should require a small delay.

4. I wouldn't mind guards performing lethal counters (i.e. physically killing Connor in an animation), but only if the Assassin's health is very low and the player doesn't attempt to dodge it.

5. While I'd like some enemies to be immune to an instant kill, I would rather have a few archetypes (e.g. Hardy) require 2-3 counters to fully kill them, with lower ranked guards with a Hardy archetype blocking one counter-kill attempt, and higher ranked Hardy guards blocking two counter-kill attempts. Finally, I think at least one assassination target (closer to endgame) that can take a lot of counter-kill attempts could be present in AC3, similar to Cesare Borgia.

7. I would rather have a soldier run away to grab some more back-up than fully run away, but that should only be one guard in a grouped combat scenario.

12. To add to this, guards should be on high alert in the immediate area, showing suspicion on both regular citizens and Connor. On spotting him, the guard could seize him by the wrist, and Connor could push them away, making them shout (and possibly fall over) and all the nearby guards closing in on his location.

I like your ideas, lets just hope that ubisoft actually reads what we have said and keeps trying to perfect combat for as long as possible before the release date and stops trying to accommodate for newcomers to the series, we have all been beginners at some point and all of us have gotten the hang of the combat. AC3 should be a reward to more experienced players who have put up with a whole trilogy of really easy games and are ready for a challenge