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View Full Version : Assassin's Creed 3 Connor and Moral Choices(game feature)



jd55513
08-07-2012, 04:19 PM
Would you guys want a Karma system NOTE: i know in a recent GameInformers/ Playstation Mag. they mentioned Connor is pre designed to "know" what is right and wrong during the course of mission and story related content, but i wonder if maybe near a certain point in the game they allow the player to control connor's thoughts and action(possibly going in line with not getting 100 sych. etc.) and thus near the game you could finish the Revolution by siding with Native Americans, British or even the Patriots and depending on who you side with determines side mission, outfit unlocks and exclusive content etc.

It wouldnt affect the core desmond story, just a sense of variaty and replayablility for the player and emotional ties etc.


they could invoke a semse of "Full picutre" or "Grey Areas" etc.


Could change sidemission involving the Aquilus Ship different custimazation options(A different Flag, different types of Boats, Crewmates, weapons and outfits.)


Also could determine the Assasssin Hideout and secret pathways for Story or side related missions(Native american secret pathways ex.) allowing different options to complete mission while still possible getting 100 sync.


This way we would have tons of new side mission and could experiance them all from all perspectives


Multiplayer Incentives possiblilities: We oculd have depending on who you side with in the end(IF POSSIBLE) exclusive elblems, trophys/acheivemnts and mutliplayer characters.
Again sorry if its an already discussed topic/thread just ideas, theis is most unlikey consifdering its never been asked or discussed (from my knowledge of interviews etc.)
might've been a scrapped feature during alpha or early development and now with just 3 months i dont think we will see anything related to it

If you guys like this idea comment or if you could link me to articles or interviews related to some moral freedom in the game PLEASE SEND ME A LINK:P

UPDATE: this could allow Ubisoft to give us different types of DLC SIngleplayer and Multiplayer respectfully for instance say i completed lots of mission with Native Americans(Sidemission NOT the Narrative) and i had a good Karma/ reputaion with them, then say down the line after release of AC3 Ubisoft announces some Singleplayer DLC involving more exclusive Sidemission quest(Again it doesnt have to affect Narravtive) and awards us with more custimaization options for the core aspects of the narrative of the singleplayer dlc(during the dlc i have an exclusive weapon or a different militia(native americans to aid me in battle... or maybe i can requit native americans in battle or maybe more AS Hidout options upon finishing DLC etc. And this could crossover to Multiplayer especially wolfpack....

Slayer_WTF
08-07-2012, 04:22 PM
I doubt they will do such a thing. AC has a story driven, with no alternatives or choices by the player, and I think it's better that way. Sure, I would not mind having the freedom to choose in Subquest!

jd55513
08-07-2012, 04:33 PM
I doubt they will do such a thing. AC has a story driven, with no alternatives or choices by the player, and I think it's better that way. Sure, I would not mind having the freedom to choose in Subquest!


Yeah i know its a strench but like i said they could fit this kind of content as "After Core story" and with the new things with 100sync they could allow different ways of completing mission while maintaining connors "programmed sense of Justice" and still allow the player freedom in terms of little things such as exclsuive routes and militia(mercenaries exclusives weapons outfits) depending all on how many mission we did for each loyality or fraction and how you completed mission.

medcsu
08-07-2012, 04:37 PM
I would utterly despise a karma system for an AC game as it is (as another poster stated) a story driven game based on one singular outcome (which none of us yet know).

A karma system would totally go against the Creed anyhow as they all follow (if they are, in fact Assassins) the same three laws.

jd55513
08-07-2012, 04:47 PM
I would utterly despise a karma system for an AC game as it is (as another poster stated) a story driven game based on one singular outcome (which none of us yet know).

A karma system would totally go against the Creed anyhow as they all follow (if they are, in fact Assassins) the same three laws.

Well with the final game outcome could still be the same this little karma system is more sidemission related it wouldnt take form the narratives in terms of Connor's development and the games final villan and battle and ending would still be the same i just thought it would be cool to actually have some moral freedom with completing mission and earning exclusive content depending on what kinds of sidemission we chose.

RatonhnhakeFan
08-07-2012, 04:51 PM
A choice & consequence to a small degree like you propose (different side-quest and/or flag) could be implemented, but anything bigger is unfortunately out of the question since we can't change big historic events

medcsu
08-07-2012, 04:55 PM
The problem is that a karma system can basically only go two ways, a decision to help (which can be done in many ways), or a decision not to help/potentially hurt. I just think this really is flirting way too close with a total retcon of the entire Creed if it is done and is not worth while.

For example, you're walking down the road and see your target but between him someone is being assaulted.
Do you
a) Help the person being assaulted and find your target another day (good karma)
b) Leave the assault alone and continue to pursue your target (bad karma)

Considering what the Assassins stand for, it would make zero sense to not help the person being assaulted and thus the karma system seems pointless to me. The Creed really negates any chance of a karma based game because it is very specific to any assassin.

jd55513
08-07-2012, 05:05 PM
The problem is that a karma system can basically only go two ways, a decision to help (which can be done in many ways), or a decision not to help/potentially hurt. I just think this really is flirting way too close with a total retcon of the entire Creed if it is done and is not worth while.

For example, you're walking down the road and see your target but between him someone is being assaulted.
Do you
a) Help the person being assaulted and find your target another day (good karma)
b) Leave the assault alone and continue to pursue your target (bad karma)

Considering what the Assassins stand for, it would make zero sense to not help the person being assaulted and thus the karma system seems pointless to me. The Creed really negates any chance of a karma based game because it is very specific to any assassin.

I see but it would just be implatmented in the Sidequest and depending on your action changes some environments(the Aquilus or safehouse) and earning exclusive rewards and outifts while not changing the narrative(nothing would affact the narrative) this is just a way to give players more custimization fro their assassin AFTER the NARRATIVE is completed

De Filosoof
08-07-2012, 05:06 PM
No. The game should be thought provoking to everyone. Not kill innocent civilians and bullcrap like that.

Will_Lucky
08-07-2012, 05:15 PM
As long as it takes place in the Animus there should be no such system.

RatonhnhakeFan
08-07-2012, 05:18 PM
No. The game should be thought provoking to everyone. Not kill innocent civilians and bullcrap like that.

Having choice is thought provoking, especially in complex situations

TheHumanTowel
08-07-2012, 05:31 PM
Moral choices are great in some games but I don't think AC is suited to a system like that. The very premise of the games makes a system like that illogical. I think different routes and ways to approach your objective are good ways to give the player choice in AC but I wouldn't like any choices that have an affect on the story. Also a Karma system kind of defeats the purpose of making the game morally grey if it tells you when you're doing something bad and when you're doing something good.

De Filosoof
08-07-2012, 05:34 PM
Having choice is thought provoking, especially in complex situations

You think getting rid of corrupt people while killing children is thought provoking?
This is one of the main reasons why you can't hurt children in AC3 because the story wouldn't make any sense.
You could as well play as a catholic priest...


Because people are so sick and lost they wanna kill children in-game doesn't mean Connor with his morals and views on the world would do the same.
It's not about the player, it's about Connor.

jd55513
08-07-2012, 05:49 PM
Moral choices are great in some games but I don't think AC is suited to a system like that. The very premise of the games makes a system like that illogical. I think different routes and ways to approach your objective are good ways to give the player choice in AC but I wouldn't like any choices that have an affect on the story. Also a Karma system kind of defeats the purpose of making the game morally grey if it tells you when you're doing something bad and when you're doing something good.

Like i said, this small karma system should be ONLY limited to sidemission related to the frontiar and brotherhood related mission's Not core mission's related to the Narrative for multiplayer it would be cool have exclusive elblem's and multiplayer model because of some sidemission involving factions.

Also a Karma system kind of defeats the purpose of making the game morally grey if it tells you when you're doing something bad and when you're doing something good.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but becouse of the whole replaability aspect of this karma system you could try other routes and possiblilities eventually coming full circle. Again without affecting the Narrative

jd55513
08-07-2012, 06:18 PM
Updated the post possiblility with DLC and sidequest:

SixKeys
08-07-2012, 07:03 PM
Like i said, this small karma system should be ONLY limited to sidemission related to the frontiar and brotherhood related mission's Not core mission's related to the Narrative for multiplayer it would be cool have exclusive elblem's and multiplayer model because of some sidemission involving factions.

Also a Karma system kind of defeats the purpose of making the game morally grey if it tells you when you're doing something bad and when you're doing something good.

Everything the player does, even side missions, is related to the narrative. It would only cause problems for the devs to keep up with their own story if there were two or more possibilities for the way each mission affected the assassin's personal story. For example, the Animus' full sync system relies on the fact that "Ezio did not kill civilians". If you kill civilians, it automatically counts as an accident and causes Desmond to lose sync with his ancestor. If you had the choice to kill or not kill civilians in a particular mission, that goes against the narrative. Imagine the AC Wiki describing a particular mission: "In 1458, Ezio killed a group of civilians while pursuing a target, except unless he didn't."

De Filosoof
08-07-2012, 07:05 PM
I think it would seriously ruin the whole game and plot.

BBALive
08-07-2012, 07:33 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a moral/karma system be impossible when you consider the fact that you're reliving somebody's memories, and therefore all of the choices regarding morality would already have been made by them? Because of this - and the fact that you're playing as an assassin that lives by a strict moral code anyway - it doesn't really have a place in Assassin's Creed.

So no.

Morality is great when it's done right, rather than just obvious 'good' or 'bad' choices or paths; only a handful of games have done it right.

SixKeys
08-07-2012, 07:37 PM
Morality is great when it's done right, rather than just obvious 'good' or 'bad' choices or paths; only a handful of games have done it right.

^ This. Having a moral choice is a useless option if your choices are basically between "kill puppies" and "save a burning orphanage". It's not intellectually stimulating, it's just a gimmick. In a game that's specifically geared towards player choice (like Mass Effect) your choices can actually make a difference because you have several ways to affect the story. In a game like AC it would feel shoehorned in.

LoyalACFan
08-07-2012, 07:57 PM
Having choice is thought provoking, especially in complex situations

The ONLY game I've seen pull this off is InFamous 2. Kill yourself and take a gamble on saving 99% of the human race, or spare yourself and save the 1% you know you can save. With every other game, your good/bad choices are usually so obvious it doesn't even make things interesting. It's not thought-provoking, it's just a lame hassle if it isn't properly implemented. See: Red Dead Redemption. The original poster of this thread is basically proposing a system similar to that of RDR- be scripted as a "good guy" for the narrative, and have the freedom on the side to be good or bad, with some small customization options unlocking for either path. But the thing is, the morality in RDR was useless. Let's see... rescue the woman about to be stabbed to death in the street, or kidnap a nun and tie her to the train tracks? Your choices were extremely black-and-white, and since they had no bearing on the plot, it really felt kind of pointless after a while.

So, long story short, no, I don't want a morality meter.

jd55513
08-07-2012, 08:03 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a moral/karma system be impossible when you consider the fact that you're reliving somebody's memories, and therefore all of the choices regarding morality would already have been made by them? Because of this - and the fact that you're playing as an assassin that lives by a strict moral code anyway - it doesn't really have a place in Assassin's Creed.

So no.

Morality is great when it's done right, rather than just obvious 'good' or 'bad' choices or paths; only a handful of games have done it right.

Yeah i see your point about being a spectator to someone else's memories but that reason could allow possible indivisualism on the player so say to get 100sync on a chase mission revolves around capturing and subduing a templar without being seen or killing civilians, okay fair enough but what if becouse of the various factions(correct me if im wrong) are native americans, patriots/colonist and the british so say because of some of the side mission you done previously(say you did missions for the patriots ex. errands food etc.) then you could get a group of colonies(instead of the usual assasin brotherhood and use their abilities then beocause of that(possible new recruits)you could still end up getting the templar with the requirments listed above and still experince a different experiance without taking away from the narrative and ture memory sync.

Like i said it will obviously NEVER going to happen anytime soon but its still possible to give some freedom and choice involving how the player preceeds with the mission while not ruining the actual sync.

jd55513
08-07-2012, 08:07 PM
The ONLY game I've seen pull this off is InFamous 2. Kill yourself and take a gamble on saving 99% of the human race, or spare yourself and save the 1% you know you can save. With every other game, your good/bad choices are usually so obvious it doesn't even make things interesting. It's not thought-provoking, it's just a lame hassle if it isn't properly implemented. See: Red Dead Redemption. The original poster of this thread is basically proposing a system similar to that of RDR- be scripted as a "good guy" for the narrative, and have the freedom on the side to be good or bad, with some small customization options unlocking for either path. But the thing is, the morality in RDR was useless. Let's see... rescue the woman about to be stabbed to death in the street, or kidnap a nun and tie her to the train tracks? Your choices were extremely black-and-white, and since they had no bearing on the plot, it really felt kind of pointless after a while.

So, long story short, no, I don't want a morality meter.

Yeah that is what i was thinking i knew a karma system of Infamous 2 would be nosentical but yeah i was thinking along the lines of exclusive weapons, outifts, militia, and a possible dlc expansion on this but yes your right its not practical....

xcamthemandudex
08-08-2012, 01:35 AM
The only way that I would like this would be if it only affected the way the people viewed the Assassins. Anything else would go against everything in the game. It is based on synchronizing with what happened in the past, not creating a new path in the past.